Author Topic: Rogue One (SPOILERS)  (Read 139855 times)

Offline Scockery

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Re: Rogue One (SPOILERS)
« Reply #195 on: August 31, 2016, 03:04 PM »
Looks good. Needs more Watto.

Offline Jesse James

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Re: Rogue One (SPOILERS)
« Reply #196 on: September 8, 2016, 01:12 AM »
Watto as a character was actually pretty good...  It'd spice that trailer up a bit too much.

So I was talking to a buddy and he made a pretty good point...  Getting into/out of a hatch like on that tank wouldn't be too easy in body armor...  Like, to the point your life would be at risk.  If you've ever seen someone get into a WW2 tank's hatch, even the larger ones like the commander hatch on the turret, it's tight. 

Kinda funny.  I mean I know it's an excuse to make more specialized troopers and armor and toys...  I get it.  Just funny that it'd be very detrimental to the person wearing the armor to be inside a tank.   The AT-ST guys had it right.
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Offline Matt_Fury

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Re: Rogue One (SPOILERS)
« Reply #197 on: September 9, 2016, 09:20 AM »
Except an AT-ST can be crushed by a couple of logs....maybe the armor could help a little.  :D
« Last Edit: September 10, 2016, 03:31 PM by Matt_Fury »
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Offline JediJman

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Re: Rogue One (SPOILERS)
« Reply #198 on: September 9, 2016, 10:23 AM »
So I was talking to a buddy and he made a pretty good point...  Getting into/out of a hatch like on that tank wouldn't be too easy in body armor...  Like, to the point your life would be at risk.  If you've ever seen someone get into a WW2 tank's hatch, even the larger ones like the commander hatch on the turret, it's tight. 

That might be a bigger issue if Stormtroopers were riding around in WW2 tanks versus their own hover tank.  There's no reason why the imperial tanks couldn't have larger hatches.  Real tanks are not designed to have troops jump in and out of them - if you're in the tank, you're supposed to stay in the tank.  Probably the same with an AT-ST - there isn't a lot of reason to jump out into combat when you're cockpit is dozens of feet high in the air.  But a stormtrooper in a hover tank might have more need to pop in and out, and they could easily design the tank to accommodate that need a variety of different ways.  If the trooper is getting out of the tank more regularly, he's definitely going to need armor.
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Offline Jesse James

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Re: Rogue One (SPOILERS)
« Reply #199 on: September 13, 2016, 09:35 PM »
Quote
That might be a bigger issue if Stormtroopers were riding around in WW2 tanks versus their own hover tank.  There's no reason why the imperial tanks couldn't have larger hatches.



Except like, they really don't have that. ;)  They're pretty typical looking of WW2 armor hatches in their design in many respects...  The AT-ST's as well, but also this new tank.

My friend I was talking about this with isn't a SW fan as much a history guy, but we felt they're very similarly styled to a WW2 German tank destroyer/mobile gun...  At least the profile from the front is similar.  Very low, very cramped (looking anyway, without any inside details).  The Commander's cupola is the most spacious looking hatch that can be seen (as most commander's cupolas are larger), and very WW2 German-ish looking itself actually, but still tight and made more-so by someone wearing armor obviously.  I wouldn't be surprised at them pulling from WW2 weapons to design it since Star Wars has a history of that anyway in its look for the Empire.

The driver's hatch, which only the driver's head is visible, is insanely tight and I'd dare say almost impossible for him to remove himself if he's wearing armor besides a helmet and perhaps a tight/thin or flexible body piece.  You only see his  bucket though, so it's possible he's in a jumpsuit and no body armor.

Hatches are small for structural purposes more than anything, or they'd have larger hatches on actual tanks.  Modern armor the shapes have changed, but they're still fairly tight squeezes to get into/out of, and are still largely rounded.  Larger hatches mean larger weak points that can be targeted though.  The top of the tank is generally weak (in real life anyway), so you try to minimize that...  The size of the hatches on Star Wars vehicles like this (or the AT-ST) make you think that's possibly true in Star Wars too, and they want to minimize weak points on it.

This tank's real purpose is seemingly mixed...  But the hatches are are tight for someone in armor to deal with it, whether they want inside it, out of it, or whatever.  In an emergency it's REALLY bad if you're wearing armor and in something you have to get out of pretty fast.  :-X  I can't buy into these guys then being soldiers who have a need to exit fast, fight, get back in quickly again, fight some more...  It's just not looking designed for that.  Hell it's tough to say if there are even more than 3 or 4 people able to fit in that, actually.

Real armor DOES have the purpose of throwing men into combat though, actually...  Tanks don't specifically, but Armored Fighting Vehicles like the Bradley, that's half their purpose generally (or acting as an ambulance, or command vehicle, whatever).  They're formidably armed too, but are also a transport.  This SW tank though, doesn't have a compartment in the rear for troops from anything I've seen, and like the pictures show the hatches are not large enough for more than a man at a time to deploy.  It wouldn't be practical then even if it could.

Add in that hatches are often focal targets for snipers in combat zones (logical), and having the armor on making it slower to get in/out, strikes me as a position nobody would want to be in.  :-\

I still absolutely love seeing, for the first time, an Imperial vehicle other than a walker in action...  It's just cool that they're looking at the broader scope.  I wish we'd gotten that Rebel armor piece from Hoth made...  It's obscure but not a large vehicle it seems.  Be neat to have that in the collection.  Rogue One is a visual treasure trove when they put out trailers...  I love seeing new OT era "stuff".  Especially now that isn't in some obscure RPG book's pages or video games.

EDIT: Yikes that pic was definitely not shrunk down by the site that posted it.
« Last Edit: September 13, 2016, 09:38 PM by Jesse James »
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Offline Jesse James

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Re: Rogue One (SPOILERS)
« Reply #200 on: September 13, 2016, 09:37 PM »
Except an AT-ST can be crushed by a couple of logs....maybe the armor could help a little.  :D

To be fair, watch the Mythbusters episode on this Matt.  It's interesting...  Plus "scout" denotes they're not the meatiest of weapons to hit the battlefield.  They're the TIE Fighter of land forces it seems.  :-[
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Offline Phrubruh

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Re: Rogue One (SPOILERS)
« Reply #201 on: September 20, 2016, 05:56 PM »
Go Rogue - Animated Rogue One movie using new Hasbro figures to get the new death star plans. The new AT-ACT is shown in action in part 3.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jIrw_AszBvk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yNFo-DQW6PA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uXFh5rNaDUk
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Offline Nicklab

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Re: Rogue One (SPOILERS)
« Reply #202 on: October 2, 2016, 12:56 PM »
There's a character reveal that's putting a name to the face of a Mon Cal Rebel that we saw in the SWCE sizzle reel:  Admiral Raddus.
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Offline Jeff

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Re: Rogue One (SPOILERS)
« Reply #203 on: October 6, 2016, 03:33 PM »
One cool little non-toy thing from the Hasbro panel was a nice shot that showed the differences between the Scarif Stormtroopers - Grunt, Squad Leader, and Captain:

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Offline Phrubruh

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Re: Rogue One (SPOILERS)
« Reply #204 on: October 6, 2016, 03:49 PM »
At least they are wearing their long board shorts.
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Offline Jesse James

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Re: Rogue One (SPOILERS)
« Reply #205 on: October 6, 2016, 06:58 PM »
This trooper type's become pretty interesting...  The coloring, the style of armor... 

I read they're "Marines" basically, so while the "shore trooper" is still kind of stupid as names go, they at least have something specialized to them besides being at a beach (IE: Jungle warfare, amphibious specialties, etc.), and that's cool.

That said, the "Naval Trooper" is more or less a marine...  Operating for defense aboard ships, aboard space stations, etc.  They perform various tasks but also act as armed force aboard these places too.  And that makes sense since you see them operating in very much a Marine's capacity abord the DS, Destroyers, and even on Endor at the shield generator which for all intents and purposes would be a "naval" installation.

So what's the deal with these new guys being Marines?

I've always envisioned Stormtroopers being their own branch of military forces...  Could these be the Stormtrooper's specialists then?  Or are these guys separate of Stormtroopers and are armored versions of the "Death Star Trooper" as we know him?  Just a different set of clothes.  Kind of like the 41st Elite's armor changing depending on the need (camo scout-like armor on Kashyyyk, grey marking regular armor on Coruscant).

Of course it's easy to say it's cool to sell new toys with something neat looking that's different but still an armored trooper, blah blah blah.

The colors, I can view them as something easy to see in dense jungle environments to identify your hierarchy of rank...  Quick recognition of who's in charge (or not).  That's basically what the rank pauldrons on troopers are (BTW, Loving that the pauldrons have become standard, not "specialized", as the troopers on Tatooine I still maintain are just regular soldiers and a "sandtrooper" isn't really a thing at all, just my opinion).

In a jungle environment the reds and blues may be readily recognizable...  Plus red/blue being the rank colors of the standard military it seems, perhaps that lends credence to these guys not being within the Stormtrooper ranks (otherwise why not just wear pauldrons of bright colors right?).

That said I can see them being just the Marines of the Stormtrooper legions, easy peasy, but still fun to think about.

All these new trooper and armor types give me new things to ponder with the military structure of both sides...  I enjoy that kinda stuff when it comes up.  I'm curious if we'll see anything from the AT-ST type uniforms...

And Bodie's outfit, it's blue seemingly...  what is his role?  Is he representing those guys on the Death Star II in blue jumpsuits we've never been able to identify as anyone in particular since there's never been any mention of them in any source material?  He doesn't appear to have a grey uniform on like the landing crew people, another new trooper type, so is this just something completely separate?  Are there more colors indicating job/station ala the crew on a flight deck of an aircraft carrier?  The original movies certainly didn't seem to indicate anything that intricate, but they also didn't branch out to how Imperial occupation looked too.
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Offline Darby

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Re: Rogue One (SPOILERS)
« Reply #206 on: October 6, 2016, 07:52 PM »
Like you I'm very interested in the structures and how these guys fit in. I think the traditional roles of navy, marines, infantry etc. have lost nearly all meaning in the SW universe. Those terms are used, but without any real specificity. Stormtroopers essentially serve as marines in the OT. Especially when you watch Empire, you're watching a quasi-naval institution that deploys ground forces (Stormtroopers) as needed. Branching out from that are specializations within the ranks. That's how I see it anyways, but like I mentioned on Twitter, these guys are very interesting. They seem outliers compared to the rest of the OT era Imperial corps and that's a good thing. They are very PT and we know now Krennic is a PT era character and that even one scene in this movie (the flashback with little Jyn) takes place potentially in or adjacent to the PT era.


Offline Scockery

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Re: Rogue One (SPOILERS)
« Reply #207 on: October 6, 2016, 08:38 PM »
This is a thing fans of GI JOE get into with Cobra. They apply modern US military structure to them and it doesn't mesh, especially with Cobra's seeming redundant troop types.

Bodie's jumpsuit reminds me of the Rodian Tseebo with the Lobot headset from REBELS. Though, he wore grey. Maybe civilian laborers? INDEPENDENT CONTRACTORS?  :D

Offline Nicklab

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Re: Rogue One (SPOILERS)
« Reply #208 on: October 6, 2016, 09:44 PM »
Like you I'm very interested in the structures and how these guys fit in. I think the traditional roles of navy, marines, infantry etc. have lost nearly all meaning in the SW universe. Those terms are used, but without any real specificity. Stormtroopers essentially serve as marines in the OT. Especially when you watch Empire, you're watching a quasi-naval institution that deploys ground forces (Stormtroopers) as needed. Branching out from that are specializations within the ranks. That's how I see it anyways, but like I mentioned on Twitter, these guys are very interesting. They seem outliers compared to the rest of the OT era Imperial corps and that's a good thing. They are very PT and we know now Krennic is a PT era character and that even one scene in this movie (the flashback with little Jyn) takes place potentially in or adjacent to the PT era.



THIS.

One of the novels that leads up to ROGUE ONE supposedly deals with Krennic's past with the Grand Army of the Republic.  And that time period may also provide a link between Krennic and Jyn's father, Galen Erso.
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Offline Jeff

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Re: Rogue One (SPOILERS)
« Reply #209 on: October 6, 2016, 10:07 PM »
So what's the deal with these new guys being Marines?

I've always envisioned Stormtroopers being their own branch of military forces...  Could these be the Stormtrooper's specialists then?

Shoretroopers = specialist stormtroopers stationed at the top secret Imperial military headquarters on Scarif, Shoretroopers patrol the beaches and bunkers of the planetary facility.

I think its as simple as Stormtroopers in cold wear 'snowtrooper' gear; Stormtroopers in the tropics/beach wear 'shoretrooper' armor; etc.

And Bodie's outfit, it's blue seemingly...  what is his role?

It sounds like he's an Imperial cargo shuttle pilot from Jedha...
« Last Edit: October 6, 2016, 10:08 PM by Jeff »
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