JediDefender.com Forums

Collecting => Customs => Photonovels and Movies => Topic started by: Quazar on August 23, 2006, 03:35 PM

Title: Save the PN Forum! (aka "If You Build it, Will They Come?")
Post by: Quazar on August 23, 2006, 03:35 PM
I am reprinting some comments here I posted in Flacksguy's newest photonovel chapter.

Generally speaking, though I think we are seeing more and more great photnovels than ever before, I am dismayed by the general lack of participation and commentary that this great work seems to generate, not only here but at RS, which also has its own PN forum with many of the same members and stories.

I am not singling myself out of the bad behavior, as there have been many stories in which I have not personally commented on, so i don't mean to come across as hypocritical.  But it is upsetting that these labors of love seem to get so little in the way of replies.  While in-depth feedback is always appreciated, even a few of the quickie comments would be a step in the right direction. 

There are a number of amazing chapters right now in this forum that have less than ten replies each (and many of those are replies from the authors responding to the few comments they did get.)

Here is what I wrote in Flacksguy's forum.  I really wish that we could revitalize the level of analysis and participation here.  It terms of material, it seems like we've never had a richer mix of projects, so it is puzzling and frustrating that the comments themselves aren't commensurate with the great work being done.

Hopefully together we can find the solution and make this an exciting, encouraging place to be.  From personal experience, as someone who has poured his efforts into photonovels in the past, there is nothing more disheartening than having to wait days and days and days just for a few comments. 

Here's what I wrote in the other thread -


I am a little dismayed over the fact that there are so many good photonovels here and at RS that seem to get very little feedback.  And I'll admit I'm just as guilty as others, since I haven't been posting much lately and don't comment on every single photonovel (just because I'm usually pretty busy).

But I really wish that these awesome stories, whether they're yours or Swede's or Longhorn's or Ennis' or Lushro Dofine's got more replies.  Making photonovels is probably the most difficult and labor intensive project on these boards, as it involves making customs and making dioramas and writing and photoshopping/special effects.

And yet....so often, an awesome story like yours only gets a small smattering of comments.  What the heck? 

It seemed like last year, all you had to do was crank out a quickie clone custom and you'd easily get a dozen replies or more.  But spend hours and hours on a photonovel and you're lucky if you crack double-digits.

I don't want to denigrate anyone's great custom work, but I just wish that, both on JD and RS, that we could somehow revitalize and re-energize the fan base so that these stories not only get big audiences but get some feedback.

As a once and (hopefully) future photnovelist myself, I have had many frustrating days when I've worked my ass off on something only to get a minimal response. 

The general slowness of the forums lately has been one of the reasons why I haven't been eager to resume my stories.  I worry about spending literally four, five or six hours on a single chapter if I'm only going to get three or four replies.

Unfortunately, I don't know what the solution is.  The last year has really been a "golden age" for photonovels, with many wonderful and talented people getting into the act.  There are some really amazing stories being made out there and, at least for a while, there seemed to be the audience to go along with them.  It's why RS eventually created its own forum (following in JD's footsteps, which made the sub-forum here.)

i've tried to be a cheerleader for photonovels for a while now (though admittedly I've been lacking in at least the past few months) and I just wish there was more interest, more discussion and a greater awareness and appreciation of the art form from these forums.

A story as cool as this deserves 50 or a 100 comments, not just five or six.  Like I said, I don't have any answers, but it frustrates me to no end to see our uber-talented photonovelists get so little love from the general public.
Title: Re: Save the PN Forum! (aka "If You Build it, Will They Come?")
Post by: Angry Ewok on August 23, 2006, 04:32 PM
Since I'm on dialup, it takes an extremely long time to load a story. I can't just click 'Reload' and walk off for 20 minutes, either - I have to actually sit there and right click progressively... Imagine then, after 10 minutes of right-clicking, how disapointed I am if the photonovel is crappy.

Like with anything else, for every few really great Photonovels - there are a dozen crappy ones to have to pick through. If I had a faster connection, I'd be much more into this - I admire alot of the work of customizers, and moreso, I like reading a good story.

To answer the topic title, 'If you build it, will they come?'... My answer would be, if you have a good story - regardless of your customizing skills, regardless of your ability to do flashy junk in photoshop, word of mouth will get around and people who don't even frequent the Photonovel Section will take a look at your work.

I think another thing to take into consideration is that some people, myself included, may often choose not to respond to a Photonovel due to the cliquey reach-around responses going on. It's difficult for me to make a constructive criticism when I feel like an 'outsider' that the photonovel wasn't written to appeal to, in the first place... Who am I to criticisize, right?

All that said, I've tried writing stories to submit to a photonoveler - but I've never felt like my writing ever reaches a standard that I'd feel comfortable with other people seeing, so cuddos to the photonovel writers who have the balls to submit their work.
Title: Re: Save the PN Forum! (aka "If You Build it, Will They Come?")
Post by: BrentS on August 23, 2006, 05:51 PM
Quazar,
What a good post.  It is too bad that these posts don't get more attention.  I think one of the biggest problems is that they are all so long, its difficult to make meaningful comments.  THere are several people that do a great job at providing good solid critiques.

I for one will cite a lack of time to get through all the great PNs.  I've also avoided the forum out of guilt for not getting my own PN updated sooner.  I've been sidetracked on a major diorama project for the PN.  I'm going to try and go back and get caught up on all the great stories I've missed!
Title: Re: Save the PN Forum! (aka "If You Build it, Will They Come?")
Post by: S_A_Longhorn on August 23, 2006, 06:08 PM
I think part of the problem is that traffic has decreased in both RS and JD forums.  Last year was perhaps the last great year for collectors, unless another SW movie or TV show bring to life new characters.

Now, over at RS, we know even less traffic will go thru the PN section since it is tied into the Custom section.  Some people don't care about customs and all of that creative work.  Thus, the interest for the rest of the work (i.e. - Fan Fiction, Artwork, PN, and Dioramas) fades.  I, myself, am guilty of rarely if ever venturing into those forums.

But I agree with ANGRY EWOK.  I can't imagine trying to read my PN with dial-up.  Some updates have 90+ pics.  And if there are not enough responses, a second update can be on the same page, which would increase the total pic count to over 150.  No way someone with dial-up is going to wait for that.  But also, a cheaply done PN will spoil someone new to the forum.  My advise is to look at every story (if time permits) and determine which ones you like.  And always leave feedback.

Personally, I prefer something over nothing.  One or two lines of feedback is enough to keep me motivated to finish my story.  Honestly, I would stop creating stories if I got no feedback, simply b/c I would presume that nobody cares for my story.  But if everyone who took the time to open the thread (and there are many here at JD) left a simple message, then I would be more than satisfied.

If it weren't for 3 Scummers on RS (SpecialOps, Flacksguy, & Redd), I would not even post my PN over there.  I've always thought of JD as a smaller, tighter community than RS.  About 20% the size of RS Forums?  Nevertheless, my PN gets more Views and Replies over here than at RS.  That, is in part due to the devoted members of collecting here on JD.  RS has many 'fairweather' fans.  

I did PM Mac about the reason the PNs are no longer featured on the Home page of JD, something supremely valuable over RS.  Mac said we should post info about an update in the Feedback section of the forums, perhaps a link to the PN itself.  That way, the Admins can know about the new work, and post a mention of it on the Home page.
Title: Re: Save the PN Forum! (aka "If You Build it, Will They Come?")
Post by: Jeff on August 23, 2006, 07:15 PM
Mac said we should post info about an update in the Feedback section of the forums, perhaps a link to the PN itself.  That way, the Admins can know about the new work, and post a mention of it on the Home page.

Previously, folks had been using this thread (http://www.jedidefender.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=10729.0) in the Customs area or this one (http://www.jedidefender.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=7043.0) in the Site Feedback section to announce new photonovel stories.  That way, folks who normally don't troll the PN section get a reminder to go check it out.

No one has posted in either of those for a while now, so the Photonovels have sort of drifted off the radar thanks to the other things going on this summer (SDCC, etc).  :-\
Title: Re: Save the PN Forum! (aka "If You Build it, Will They Come?")
Post by: Diddly on August 23, 2006, 08:36 PM
As a person who used to make a Photonovel, I know how you feel at the moment, Quazar. However, I have to agree with BrentS. A lot of these PNs are very long, with over 50 pictures. After reading through an update, I don't feel like typing out a long response and instead try to summarize my thoughts. In fact, I think that Quazar is really the only person who goes into detail with his responses.

However, like AE said, it's kind of hard to reply to a Photonovel. I mean, if you say you don't like something, you can either just say you don't like it, or you could rip on it, which some may find offensive or rude. I've always found this to be a problem, since nobody really does this, and I don't want to come off as the one big ******* on JD who can't be pleased by anybody's work. And if you can't say anything bad, all you can really do is lie and say that you like everything about it. It's just kind of hard to keep lying, which is why I just stopped coming to the section altogether. This is also one of the reasons I stopped making my Photonovels.

I respect all the guys hre who take the time to make these things for our entertainment, but it's just really hard to criticise something when nobody else does it.
Title: Re: Save the PN Forum! (aka "If You Build it, Will They Come?")
Post by: Swede on August 23, 2006, 09:02 PM
Wonderful topic Quazar,
It's already answered quite a few questions I've had for quite some time.  I've  often wondered what the reasons were, why people didn't respond to some great PNs.  It always seemed so wierd to see a post with 175 hits and 4 replies.  I'd look at something like that and think, "wow, maybe they listened to their mothers and decided, if they didn't have anything nice to say, then don't say it at all."  Then I'd look at the replies and they'd be all positive, leaving me totally confused.  
  
There's a bunch of issues listed I've never thought of ...ie, dial-up and just plain not having the time to get through the PN.  But, I think it was Longhorn who said, even a little something lets the PNer know somebody took the time to read through it and check it out.  Even a quick, "Nice Job" or "This Blows" works for me and most guys that post; I understand that everyone doesn't have the time to post super in depth reviews ...ala, the great ones Quazar comes to the table with.  It's just nice to know someone's giving a nod to the hours of work you've done.

As far as feeling not qualified to respond to a PN, man, if you dig SW and stories ...congrats, you've just qualified and your opinion is totally valued.  I am extremely greatful for the guys who reply regularly, many have already been named, these guys often make the difference in motivating me to do another chapter; but, when I hear from someone new, I'm just as geeked. :D

Enough rambling,  the crazy cats that frequent these boards are top notch ... keep it up, I'd love to see some more PNs!!! ;D
Title: Re: Save the PN Forum! (aka "If You Build it, Will They Come?")
Post by: Angry Ewok on August 23, 2006, 11:19 PM
I know exactly how you guys feel about seeing your work get a slew of hits, but not having much in terms of actual feedback... It happens to me whenever I get the guts to post work in the Fan Art section - in fact, the last thing I posted got 60 views and only one response (which I appreciated alot).

Title: Re: Save the PN Forum! (aka "If You Build it, Will They Come?")
Post by: Jediknight760071 on August 24, 2006, 05:51 AM
When I was writing photonovels, I wasn't at all phased by the amount of comments I got when I posted. All in all I think I got 6 or 7 photonovels on here. I've since been on hiatus from posting photonovels, but have been writing them, bit by bit. Recently though, I've realized that I have just as much (if not more) fun writing photonovels and playing them out in my head rather than posting them after working hours on them (yes...it takes a long time to do a photonovel). I'm sorry to disappoint anyone who's been waiting for a second part to my series, but it'll probably be a long time before I ever get around to posting anything again. I've even been slow to customize figures. I don't think people like CHEWIE and Owen come around often, and now since they won't be here I think I'll be less and less dedicated to customizing. What I mean is that for me, personally, there's just no drive anymore. I'd really love to be a photonovelist again someday, but it just isn't there right now.

In regards to my personal absence of replies, frankly, I'm very selective about what I like and what I don't like. There's a lot of stuff out there I simply just don't like to read. Sure I appreciate the work the authors do, but I couldn't take myself seriously if I posted "Hey great job" in everyone's photonovel just to avoid being a jerk. I've held this belief for a long time, and please, don't think that if I don't post in your photonovel I didn't like it, that's not the case, I just really don't have anything to say most of the time.

Although I loved taking pictures for my photonovels, I like writing a lot more. I also pride myself on being a very efficient editor. I'd love to take the time to edit and double check anyone's photonovel before they post it. If anyone wants to send me some Word documents, Emails, or PMs about it, I would be thrilled to edit your guys' stories (basically check for spelling/grammar/continuity errors) before you post them. I'd really be happy to help any of you.

Lance, you're a great guy. You've always been a great guy and you always will be in my book. You helped me out a great deal when I was writing and I won't forget it. We all love you and (secretly) want that interactive photonovel back again, but I understand it's so difficult sometimes. Well sir, that's about all I have to say except that I'm sorry for my absence and I hope you have a great time reading these guys' photonovels and help them like you helped me.

Title: Re: Save the PN Forum! (aka "If You Build it, Will They Come?")
Post by: S_A_Longhorn on August 24, 2006, 12:05 PM
Previously, folks had been using this thread (http://www.jedidefender.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=10729.0) in the Customs area or this one (http://www.jedidefender.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=7043.0) in the Site Feedback section to announce new photonovel stories. 

Damn, I didn't even know about these two threads EXISTED until right now.  That is the reason why I never posted anything there!  Why didn't you tell me guys?!   :o

Many thanx to CHEWIE for letting the staff know when the new stories were up.  I'd assume that the staff found the new story and posted it on the home page.

We are correct when we say the PN have gotten longer.  Some of my update are nearly 100 pics.  And I understand it can be difficult to comment on these stories.  But something is always better than nothing when it comes to comments.

If you don't like a particular PN, then give specific reasons.  No one will pay any attention to your comments if they are "This blows!"  There have been very few times I have written a negative review, but each time I tried to fully explain my opinion.  When I first started out, I would take offense to some comments.  But I eventually understood what the cristicism was about and accepted it.  Sometimes simply explaining that the photos are unclear, the grammer/dialogue is difficult to read, or the story is too difficult to understand will help the author improve.  It worked for me, I think.

Se sure to support FLACKSGUY's new PN.  He was one of the guy who always posted feedbak over at RS, and it is really good to see him join JD and post his story over here.

I will also try to take some time and read more PNs.  Someone mentioned on the Preview thread about characters crossing over to other PNs.  That sounds like a great idea!  I would be interested in doing that, although I may be limited due to my customizing skills.

Good conversation we have going here and and thanx to JEFF for posting his comments as well.  Always good to have an Admin comment.  Be sure to post in the threads listed above whenever a new PN or UPDATE is posted.
Title: Re: Save the PN Forum! (aka "If You Build it, Will They Come?")
Post by: Flacksguy on August 25, 2006, 01:28 AM
Thanks again for all the support for my PN.
I can understand Quazars concern about the lack of comments in some of the threads, and I know the I myself am guilty of the same.
My take on it is this: We all know how time consuming it is to put together a PN, and unfortunately than cuts into time allowed for reading, and putting together a well thought out response to, other PN's. I find it impossible to read through a long PN and come up with an in depth comment, when I have work I need to do on my own.
I'd like to comment on every single PN I read, but I can barely find the time to just read them all.
One thing about the amount of traffic in the PN section, and this probably applies more to RS, than here:
Last  year over at RS, when we had our higest amount of traffic toward PN's, it was because we had our one PN thread in the ROTS section. Which at that time was one of the busiest sections on the board. People would see that it was consently bumped to the front page, and always had 8, 10, 15 new posts, and though " hey, maybe I'll check out whats going on in here". We used to get a ton of new people dropping in and checking it out, and then getting hooked on the stories.
When we moved to our own section, thats when traffic started to slow down and we started seeing less and less feedback.
Not that theres anything wrong with our own section, I think it's great, but it's just not in the high traffic area like we were used to.
I guess that all applies more to RS though, I don't know the history of this section over here. I will say, however, that this PN section was a little tough to find at first. It took me awhile before I checked inside the customs section, and even then, I didn't expect to see a sub-section inside. Scrolled right by it at first.
Anyway, I totally see how minimal response can seem like lack of interest and be discouraging. When I did my Star Wars Bloopers over on RS, I was very aware of how many views I had and how many posts followed. I was actually very lucky with that one and got and incredible response, but if I hadn't, I know I'd have been extremely disappointed, and probably would think twice about putting in the time and effort on another one. What really helped me with that one was just getting the word out about it as much as I could. Putting the link in my signature got it out there alot, and I think I found an excuse to stick it in Wuhur's.
I really like what they used to do here by putting a little blurb on the front page, that was probably a HUGE help, and the threads in customs and site feedback are a great idea too.
Anything to get the word out.
Title: Re: Save the PN Forum! (aka "If You Build it, Will They Come?")
Post by: Darth Depressis on September 13, 2006, 11:36 AM
in a lot of ways i think were more creative than movie makers and in a lot of ways we clearly are storytellers without the connections to get our storys out there in that meduim.
it is pretty sad that this form of media has no recoginition,but i really think you guys should do what i've done and start your own fanon pedia pages, were all full of storys that no one really knows or can gather from the pn's. if anything we might just gain some sort of following good or bad.

but yes comments are the main reason for posting, we want to know what everyone thinks about what we've done. its the only form of encouragment we can get for doing this. it makes us feel that there is interest in the storys were telling.
Title: Re: Save the PN Forum! (aka "If You Build it, Will They Come?")
Post by: Deanna Rash on November 30, 2006, 10:08 PM
Sorry I'm a little late.I really enjoy these!So far.Since I don't have any experience with photoshop or anything like that.I feel you may not value my opinion from my lack
of experience,but  I call them like I see them.I do make customs and dioramas.I usually do my critiquing from there.The story has to get me excietied to sometimes it has to take place in a certain era before I will take a look at it.You will always get a good response from me.I want to encourge not discourage.Just to let all of you know I've really enjoyed these and keep them coming!
Title: Re: Save the PN Forum! (aka "If You Build it, Will They Come?")
Post by: Darth Depressis on January 2, 2007, 01:20 AM
you know i think robo-quack or snaggletooth or whatever he wants to call himself, needs to read the title of this thread.
if you "BUILD" it, will they come. not if you briefly mention your intention to build it will they shower praise upon it.
Title: Re: Save the PN Forum! (aka "If You Build it, Will They Come?")
Post by: David on January 2, 2007, 01:02 PM
you know i think robo-quack or snaggletooth or whatever he wants to call himself, needs to read the title of this thread.
if you "BUILD" it, will they come. not if you briefly mention your intention to build it will they shower praise upon it.

i like calling myself roboquack.
itll stay that way for a while.

and yes, i understand the 'building' part is the most important. are you quite finished?
Title: Re: Save the PN Forum! (aka "If You Build it, Will They Come?")
Post by: Quazar on June 4, 2007, 02:46 PM
Guys......unfortunately, the PN forum here seems comatose once again.

And it's not from lack of new and interesting stories.  With the exception of the ever vigiliant Robo Quack and Deanna Rash, it seems like NO ONE is posting replies in this forum anymore, despite some terrific work being done.

I used to purposefully direct people to post the PN's here, knowing it would usually get more feedback here than at rebelscum.

But, as bad as things are on the RS forum, they're even worse here now.  I was going to suggest that some folks post their PN's here from other forums, but I don't even see the point anymore.

What's going on out there?  I can't believe there isn't an audience for these great stories....

JD used to be THE place to go for photonovel feedback and discussion.  Now it's easily the worst.
Title: Re: Save the PN Forum! (aka "If You Build it, Will They Come?")
Post by: Darth Depressis on June 4, 2007, 03:42 PM
in my opinion the audience is way too simple to enjoy or grasp some of the better stuff on here, but what i know i really want as a comment is a detailed questioning or atleast some sort of way to express the fact that they've actually read the damn thing and not just skimmed the pics.

one of the main problems we face around here is a lack of variety, almost everything on here is set in the same era.
the other is just the extreme lack of reward in busting your rump to produce an update that is barely noticed.

I'm really starting to think we need some children forums in the photo-novel section or something. or atleast some kinda quality control to weed out the pn promisers.
Title: Re: Save the PN Forum! (aka "If You Build it, Will They Come?")
Post by: David on June 4, 2007, 04:33 PM
or atleast some kinda quality control to weed out the pn promisers.


Im worried Im seen as one of them, but mine is coming!!! I put together pictures and descriptions of characters and there's a preview on the way, but when I do, no one looks at them or bothers to reply! I wonder what that says about the attention my story will get once its actually posted.  :P

An idea I have is for JD to do some kind of 'Customizer Spotlight' feature on their home page like the one on Yakface, which is probably the best place for this stuff , and post info about upcoming photonovels and/or previews on their home page to support us. Yak does it!

Of course, the JD staff probably wont listen to this request, but one can only hope theyll do SOMETHING to regain their reputation for pns (which they dont seem to care about losing btw).  :'(

PS It IS my fault that I am considered a 'pn promiser' so Im not gonna blame people like Depressis for calling me one, but these are hard to make so the people who are actually working their asses off on preparing these for an audience of two should get a little more respect than that. Just saying.  :)
Title: Re: Save the PN Forum! (aka "If You Build it, Will They Come?")
Post by: Quazar on June 4, 2007, 06:14 PM
I rarely comment on photonovel "previews" just because I'd rather save my effort for when the PN premieres.

That said, I am far more inclined and interested in a preview if it at least contains some pics or something to show that real effort is going into it beyond just brainstorming.  At the end of the day, many people can promise and preview, but few people actually deliver.

Not trying to single you out, R-Q and I appreciate that you have been an enthusiastic champion of PN's on this forum.

But when you say your PN is a year and a half away - it's hard to get too enthusiastic about it, even when your previews are detailed.

That said, Depressis, I think one of the reasons your story in particular doesn't get comments is that it is VERY dense.  I would recommend splitting up the chapters into smaller, more digestable chunks.  Sometimes it is very hard to get through a whole chapter in one sitting.

Then again, I'm just guessing, since there are smaller PN's here which don't get any feedback, either.

It's very frustrating.  I've been there, too - making stories to get almost no feedback.  It stinks.

I have no idea how to get other people  in the other forums to come in and join the conversation.  The three of us, at least, are pretty active usually around here.  But there is an extremely small circle of folks who are.

And I don't know what the answers are....
Title: Re: Save the PN Forum! (aka "If You Build it, Will They Come?")
Post by: Dressel Rebel on June 4, 2007, 06:21 PM
I have no intention of making a photonovel, but I'll try to be better about giving feedback when you guys post them.  I think they're neat.
Title: Re: Save the PN Forum! (aka "If You Build it, Will They Come?")
Post by: raziel871 on June 4, 2007, 06:24 PM
 ;)Howdy ho everybody!

I have so much respect for what Lance & Depressis are saying - both of whom I only know through Yakface - I posted STARWARS : BLACK ILLUSION over there & it was like opening presents on christmas morning!!

I had loads of comments, large & small with praise & a little constructive criticism but I knew that I had an audience, I wanted to post anyway but its nice to have someone say "well done I totally get what you did!"

On Rebel scum & here its like . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ..  . . .. . . .  . .. . . . . . . . . . .  :-X


RS I think it's mainly SWEDE who comments but the guy ( I think its a guy? ) is so upbeat & full of praise that his 1 comment will keep me posting!

This sites forum for PN's absolutely blows - I kinda skim out of loyalty because sometimes the main page has good exclusives!

Personally I think we should all just gather on yakforums where we have wonderful customising challenges, constant customs & great responses to posts but I'll keep my eye over here & Rebel scum out of habit!


Title: Re: Save the PN Forum! (aka "If You Build it, Will They Come?")
Post by: Darth Depressis on June 4, 2007, 06:51 PM
yeah I've been locking horns over on rs for like three years now, constantly getting blasted the hell outta by a cadre of losers over there.

lance as you know I've taken your comments to heart already, I'm still just very Leary of taking up room on the forum list by splitting it up like that. also already got the comic-book tie in on hold due to the continuing efforts of making EP8 TVV.(inside conversation, but I'd might as well announce it here. I'm going to heed lance's advice and starting with ep7 a dark facade split it up onto four "issues" using THE comic book creator program in an effort to get my work out to ppl whom are afraid of the size of my pn.)

i don't know if any of you have noticed but most if not all of the fan artists on theforce.net all have careers in that field now, i wonder if theres anyway we the story telling photo-novelists could also be so lucky..just a thought.

about the previews and pn specials, i wonder if there would be any reason to start a sub-forum over here dedicated to such a thing. i mean I'm the guy who started a making of a dark facade thread and even attempted to do a ep7 select of the week r-q, i know a little about trying to hype my pn by  making previews. we really do need something like that. i mean the UGP is over , how bout we get that space?
Title: Re: Save the PN Forum! (aka "If You Build it, Will They Come?")
Post by: Greg on June 4, 2007, 06:58 PM
   I really enjoy reading Photo Novels, but I rarely give the writer feedback. My main reason is that I don't have the time.
   My second reason is that most of the time I read the PN, enjoy it, but do not want to leave a one or two word post saying "Good job!" or "Fantastic!".
   Lastly, I do not really like critiquing something that I know nothing about making. To me, critiquing a PN would be like critiquing a novel or comic book. I can't draw or write well, and if I'd begin critiquing a PN I'd feel bad, as I've never put any time or work into making one myself.
   So, for all you PN writers/photographers on the boards, just know that I am reading and enjoying most, if not all, of the photo novels posted. Keep up the good work, and I apologize for the lack of feedback on my part.  
Title: Re: Save the PN Forum! (aka "If You Build it, Will They Come?")
Post by: Quazar on June 4, 2007, 08:55 PM
Quote
I have no intention of making a photonovel, but I'll try to be better about giving feedback when you guys post them.  I think they're neat.

All comments are appreciated!  I think they're neat, too!  I was a fan long before I threw my hat (sporadically) into the ring.

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Personally I think we should all just gather on yakforums where we have wonderful customising challenges, constant customs & great responses to posts but I'll keep my eye over here & Rebel scum out of habit!

Thing is, I don't want to "abandon" any of the sites.  There are still great and unique things about JD.  This place was the birthplace of the UGP and it used to be a HOTBED of photonovel discussion.

RS was hot for a while and died.  It goes in cycles...or if not cycles, then erratic varying periods.

I would love to try to get ALL the forums vibrant and exciting again, not just give up.  When I started my interactive story, for example, I considered RS to be the "home base" forum with the others as kind of supplemental, but JD soon overtook RS by leaps and bounds and became my new mental and emotional home for that story.

I would love to see this place crackling with participation again.

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about the previews and pn specials, i wonder if there would be any reason to start a sub-forum over here dedicated to such a thing. i mean I'm the guy who started a making of a dark facade thread and even attempted to do a ep7 select of the week r-q, i know a little about trying to hype my pn by  making previews. we really do need something like that. i mean the UGP is over , how bout we get that space?

Personally, I don't think we need a sub-forum for previews.  There is the preview thread in the Custom forum which gets a fair amount of use.  I'm not really crazy about previews (even though I recently did one myself) unless they contain something really cool. 

Chewie's previews, for example, are great.  He shows a few cool shots and then follows through with the finished PN within a week.  I think it's the previews for photonovels that are so far away that are the ones that are problematic.  I have seen dozens of previews for stories that never materialized.  I personally have failed to follow through on countless deadlines and promises regarding my own progress.

Don't know if we need a whole forum just to track people's intentions.  It could end up being just a lot of talk, but little action.

But that's my opinion.  On RS, I have started a Feedback thread about splitting the Photonovel & Artwork thread in two, which I hope happens, since there is far, far more feedback on the artwork, pushing the PN's off the page almost instantly.

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My second reason is that most of the time I read the PN, enjoy it, but do not want to leave a one or two word post saying "Good job!" or "Fantastic!".

Sometimes those kinds of very short comments can be a little frustrating - Personally, I wish those folks could at least write one to two sentences. 

HOWEVER, it is always nice to get feedback and anything is preferable to nothing.  Encouragement and comments are wonderful to get, no matter how short - it's at least nice to know people are reading and getting enjoyment out of it, which makes it all worthwhile.

So those kinds of comments take literally seconds to make, but they can make all the difference to those folks who have spent hours (literally hours and hours and hours just for one chapter) worthwhile.  Hell, back when I was doing my interactive story, those tiny little chapter updates took at least six hours to do, with barely any digital effects or manipulation at all.

So it's really nice to hear feedback. 

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   Lastly, I do not really like critiquing something that I know nothing about making. To me, critiquing a PN would be like critiquing a novel or comic book. I can't draw or write well, and if I'd begin critiquing a PN I'd feel bad, as I've never put any time or work into making one myself.

But I comment on the customs that I would never, ever be able to make myself. 

My friends and I critique movies and TV shows and comics and novels even though we don't know how they are made or what goes into them.  But everyone is entitlted to have an opinion.

I've heard this comment before, but I urge all those folks to ignore those kinds of feelings.  I think Swede said it just recently in another forum - if you like Star Wars stories, then you're qualified!  That's it.  Seriously, don't hold back, jump in.

And that's not to say all we want to hear are glowing praises.  I love getting constructive criticism and I know many others do.  All you need to do is be respectful and polite and not crude or rude or blunt, but all kinds of feedback, short, long, detailed or general, compliments and criticism, are essential to the health of the forums, the craft and are very much appreciated!!!

Title: Re: Save the PN Forum! (aka "If You Build it, Will They Come?")
Post by: Darth Depressis on June 4, 2007, 10:41 PM
(http://threads.rebelscum.com/photogallery/data//744/384px-ADF1.jpg)

heres the cover for "Issue" 1 of A Dark Facade, this will be created using one of the many comic book creator programs and will contain a slimed down version of my original Photo-Novel that was presented in dvd format. at this point in time i can guarantee that alot of the dialog will be cut back and or simplified in alot of cases. as of this moment I'm unsure of wheather or not this version will contain some of the special edtion-esqe changes I've been meaning to make.
Title: Re: Save the PN Forum! (aka "If You Build it, Will They Come?")
Post by: Deanna Rash on June 4, 2007, 10:53 PM
 I like the Pn's.I make customs and Diorama's .So I know what hard work goes into one of these things.That's why I leave the author a little feed bck to let them know that their hard work is apperciated.There's some really cool stories that come out of this,and some cool customs too! So don't despair guys,You'll always have a fan in me.
Title: Re: Save the PN Forum! (aka "If You Build it, Will They Come?")
Post by: CHEWIE on June 5, 2007, 02:55 AM
Well, I am sorry that I don't leave too much feedback here these days.  I don't leave too much at Scum either anymore, and it's really because I need to dedicate my forum time to Yakface now being a staffer there.  I don't get to play around online nearly as much as I used to, and when I do I need to make sure I'm keeping up with things there. 

Definitely keep up the great work though guys, there's still an audience for these, they just move around from site to site some.

 :P
Title: Re: Save the PN Forum! (aka "If You Build it, Will They Come?")
Post by: Jeff on June 5, 2007, 10:28 AM
An idea I have is for JD to do some kind of 'Customizer Spotlight' feature on their home page like the one on Yakface, which is probably the best place for this stuff , and post info about upcoming photonovels and/or previews on their home page to support us.

Um.... we already do this on the front page with our Custom Chop-Shop Wrap-Up (http://www.jedidefender.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=14425.0) stories.

(http://www.jedidefender.com/news/images/7-06/Customs_Wrap_Up_Button_v1_112006.jpg)

Jesse and Ryan were using it to show off Customs, UGP updates, PN updates, etc.  All things customs really.  Things have been busy for both of them lately, so the updates aren't as frequent as they used to be though.  I'm sure if you send them PMs and ask about it, they would see there is demand for this sort of thing and pick it up again.
Title: Re: Save the PN Forum! (aka "If You Build it, Will They Come?")
Post by: David on June 6, 2007, 11:10 AM


Not trying to single you out, R-Q and I appreciate that you have been an enthusiastic champion of PN's on this forum.

But when you say your PN is a year and a half away - it's hard to get too enthusiastic about it, even when your previews are detailed.


No, no, its fine! I dont mind, and I know not to expect much from previews for a pn thats a year away, but I just still hope that I can get WAY more once I have an actual pn up! Its always in the back of my mind when I make my pn, the feedback I will get for my trouble. Im just keeping my thread alive with previews and stuff.


Title: Re: Save the PN Forum! (aka "If You Build it, Will They Come?")
Post by: Matt_Fury on June 6, 2007, 04:15 PM
I do try to read the photo novels, but time has been against me.  One of the stories I was most interested in has been Chewie's Rykrof Enloe series, but I thought he had stopped making new chapters.  Now it looks like he's redoing some past chapters.

I'm one of the people who originally lobbied for a separate photonovel section, you guys do some incredible work and I do enjoy reading/viewing it...even if I do nothave the time to post here.  I'll try to comment more often.
Title: Re: Save the PN Forum! (aka "If You Build it, Will They Come?")
Post by: Vator on June 6, 2007, 10:00 PM
As I'm borrowing a campus computer whilst at a camp, I'll keep this brief ....


Essentially the only so-called main source of the problem here, so far as I can surmize, is that CHEWIE no longer posts here. Largely, without Mr Cook this sub-forum would not be. When he "left" JD, that built in Rykrof Enloe audience went with him over to Yakface. Ergo, the forum activity has largely died.
Title: Re: Save the PN Forum! (aka "If You Build it, Will They Come?")
Post by: CHEWIE on June 9, 2007, 02:44 AM
Hey guys, thanks for the interest still in my stories and I'm humbled to hear that someone thinks I helped build this sub-forum, that's a very nice thing to hear... I can honestly say that I did do a lot of work to try and build the community here in this part of the hobby so that is truly appreciated.  I worked very hard to recruit people to come over here a few years back.  But as time has passed, and an opportunity came for me about a year and a half ago with another site, most of my time does need to be spent elsewhere.  But I'll try more when I can to keep up on other people's work here... if it's posted at Yak too, I usually post feedback there.  I think it's just natural for a mod at one site to usually spend most of their time at that site, so I'm sorry if anyone thinks I betrayed this section or the customizing board.  Plus with having a two week old infant now, my time will be less and less online at all the sites.  Noboday can be everywhere at once.   :-\

But, I do still post the redos here, and will soon be on new chapters - probably by end of summer.  The redos do have some changes in them (actually quite a few in chapters 17 and 18 - especially 17 which I think the redo is a must read for anyone wanting to read the new chapters later on).

Anyways, comments are nice to get.  I think that a couple years ago a lot of us got spoiled by the great feedback that so many people used to leave us.  A lot of it helped with the excitement with ROTS.  The way to try and get more feedback though, I think is:

1) Work harder on your story - don't just post it your first time out - make something for your eyes only, and then go back a few weeks later and see what you could have done to improve it.  Honestly - try it sometime.  If you really want feedback, work hard.  Give people a reason to type a response.

2) Leave feedback for others.  If you don't, then don't complain when you don't get it.

3) Post at more than one forum.  You'll find an audience for these at several different sites.

4) Also, if someone leaves you bad feedback or sends you rude messages telling you your work sucks, take something from it.  Either try and use it as constructive criticism if it's from someone who really is leaving you honest feedback that is trying to help you.  But if someone is doing it privately (I used to get it all the time and even publically from time to time), they're probably just trying to get under your skin so don't even worry about it.  Ignore them.  If they were so special, they'd be posting something that was getting the attention of Lucasfilm.  So forget them.  Don't let them ruin your hobby for you, because that's what they are trying to do.

Also, if anyone ever wants to discuss privately about their PN's, I know that Lance Quazar would probably love to help out with advice, and I would to if I have time as well.  My email is rykrofenloe@yahoo.com

 :P
Title: Re: Save the PN Forum! (aka "If You Build it, Will They Come?")
Post by: Darth Depressis on August 6, 2007, 09:59 PM
to be honest after having gone through all feedback on my as of this moment incomplete sequel trilogy photo novel series and then looked into the work of those whom have left unsettling and or outstanding feedback.

I've come to the point where i suggest we should all just consider the source and take the good and the bad with a just a grain of salt, not to sound like south park's George Lucas but these are our stories! who cares if half of the community doesn't get what we do and those who also do it are not on the same page as you. just be happy they gave it enough thought to write about what they liked and or most likely didn't like about it...


anyways glad to see the general state of decay hasn't gone away since i left for California a month ago...(my sisters graduation and a job-op that turned to bantha fodder..lol) 


(http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x62/darthdepressis/Starwars%20Episode%20VIIITheVolatileVision/EP8TVV-frames_149.jpg)

I'm glad to announce that the next update of episode VIII: THE VOLATILE VISION will be the conclusion to this chapter and will ultimately leave all of you waiting for the final chapter of my trilogy...
(http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x62/darthdepressis/DOTTKlogo.jpg)



Title: Re: Save the PN Forum! (aka "If You Build it, Will They Come?")
Post by: Quazar on August 16, 2007, 02:22 PM
This preview image is AWESOME!  Look forward to the conclusion of Episode VIII!

Great job, DD.
Title: Re: Save the PN Forum! (aka "If You Build it, Will They Come?")
Post by: CHEWIE on August 18, 2007, 12:37 AM
Yes very good preview, you definitely have a very unique style too with your PN's too.

 ;)
Title: Re: Save the PN Forum! (aka "If You Build it, Will They Come?")
Post by: Artoo on November 22, 2007, 10:30 PM
If I could ever get my hands on a camera & some army-builders I'd do some PN. Here's what I'd like to do.

Comedy Series (Deciding if they will be the real characters or just figures)

Galactic Civil War PN

Indiana Jones PN

Master Chief vs. Predator
Title: Re: Save the PN Forum! (aka "If You Build it, Will They Come?")
Post by: CHEWIE on November 24, 2007, 12:07 AM
Indy - that could be a lot of fun.

I'm actually considering making a short 3-4 chapter GI JOE series at some point.

Title: Re: Save the PN Forum! (aka "If You Build it, Will They Come?")
Post by: Artoo on December 3, 2007, 09:57 PM
Yeah, I'm looking for a "McGuffin" for the story.