JediDefender.com Forums

Collecting => Customs => Star Wars Action Figures => Topic started by: Dressel Rebel on November 20, 2011, 07:07 AM

Title: Accurate stormtrooper helmet for Vintage Stormtrooper - UPDATED 12/14
Post by: Dressel Rebel on November 20, 2011, 07:07 AM
I was just perusing some of Sithfire30's work, and stumbled upon his stormtrooper helmet for 1:18

(http://a7.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/377626_291085134248533_121610277862687_963990_1515257423_n.jpg)

(http://a1.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/262992_248183435205370_121610277862687_823183_1844227_n.jpg)

WOW!!  He really hit a homerun with those.

Hasbro has never, in all of it's many chances gotten even close to this.  They did great with the Gamorrean and Ackbar and others, but their stormtroopers all SUCK.  Just look at the garbage we got compared to what Sithfire30 was able to accomplish.

(http://www.sandtroopers.com/Spice/figureimages/TAC/ANH/stormtrooper_frt.jpg)

(http://cdn2.iofferphoto.com/img/item/139/401/003/2yIh.jpg)

You guys see the difference right?  I feel like this is the most overlooked, under-discussed issue.  The iconic stormtrooper helmet has always been a bust.

God as my witness I am going to sculpt and cast 100 of these and fit them onto all of my stormtroopers.  The newer bodies have been good, just the helmets have been awful.  It's going to take a while, it's going to be hard, but this has to happen.
Title: Re: Most desperately needed figure of all time: Accurate stormtrooper
Post by: Jesse James on November 20, 2011, 12:39 PM
I think, for some, the Spacetrooper was nice enough...  I think for many actually the inaccuracies in the stormtrooper sculpts have been overlooked because people look at them as smaller issues.  It's like Boba Fett...  People have picked his figures apart too. 

Actually you can pick the Gammie guard apart too I think.

Not saying I disagree exactly though DR, just maybe it's less important to me so there's more important things IMO.  I dig my Stormtrooper legions I guess.  I even still have a massive Commtech Stormie army.

But I'm not opposed to an improvement either.
Title: Re: Most desperately needed figure of all time: Accurate stormtrooper
Post by: Mister Skeezler on November 20, 2011, 04:08 PM
I'd certainly love an improvement, or even just a wider distribution of the corrected helmet Stormies from this year. However, I would really want a Stormie without a removable helmet. We could get a much cleaner sculpt out of a solid head, and I'm sick of the helmet falling off or twirling around every time I pick those guys up.
Title: Re: Most desperately needed figure of all time: Accurate stormtrooper
Post by: Dressel Rebel on November 20, 2011, 06:33 PM
I'd certainly love an improvement, or even just a wider distribution of the corrected helmet Stormies from this year. However, I would really want a Stormie without a removable helmet. We could get a much cleaner sculpt out of a solid head, and I'm sick of the helmet falling off or twirling around every time I pick those guys up.

I was thinking of making my helmet out of a removable one, and completely resculpting the outside visible part of it.

I suppose I could do a solid sculpt and dremmel out the ones I want to be removable.

Maybe I'll try it both ways.

Itching to get started on this over the weekend.
Title: Re: Most desperately needed figure of all time: Accurate stormtrooper
Post by: Dressel Rebel on November 20, 2011, 07:14 PM
This is my sculpting goal:

(http://www.swingtimeorchestra.com/TE_HDPE_ESB.jpg)
Title: Re: Most desperately needed figure of all time: Accurate stormtrooper
Post by: Scockery on November 20, 2011, 07:16 PM
All I know is for $9 or more the current vintage one is lame. I never see corrected ones, only unibrow ones.

Time for ball jointed wrists, too.

Title: Re: Most desperately needed figure of all time: Accurate stormtrooper
Post by: Dressel Rebel on December 1, 2011, 08:38 PM
Here's just a WIP update on my quest.  I grabbed a chunk of resin and started sculpting.  I've identified a few small proportion issues with the helmet, need to correct those then start to add fine details.  I'd say I am 30-40% done.   I can see why Hasbro has had such a rough time with this since, well, forever.  There are a lot of lines and curves and proportion considerations to be sure.  I hope to have a finished product mid-December-ish.  If it ends up being as good as I think it can be, I'm gonna send it off to a friend and have like 100 cast.

(http://a8.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/388626_2520926715522_1623940435_2388161_226019026_n.jpg)
Title: Re: Most desperately needed figure of all time: Accurate stormtrooper
Post by: Phrubruh on December 1, 2011, 10:48 PM
It's definately coming along. Its way better than anything I could do.
Title: Re: Most desperately needed figure of all time: Accurate stormtrooper
Post by: CHEWIE on December 2, 2011, 11:17 AM
Better than anything I could do either, but I actually think Hasbro has done a good job on "some" of the Stormtrooper helmets.  The Spacetrooper removable helmet being a great one for removable purposes, and the Stormtrooper in the Target 3-pk looked fantastic from head to toe... (I don't compare that to the TVC Sandtrooper or the one that came with the Dewback, who often had yellowing armor and very poorly sculpted belts).

Did you ever see the helmets that Evergray made?

(http://www.yakfaceforums.com/Chewie/082011helmets.jpg)
Title: Re: Most desperately needed figure of all time: Accurate stormtrooper
Post by: Dressel Rebel on December 2, 2011, 07:35 PM
I made a good amount of progress today.  I think I am at about 50-60% completion.  It is still very rough and not even close to finished though.

What Hasbro has never gotten right is that the stormtroopers actually have a really oversized helmet.  It is a big bucket.  See the first picture, the trooper on the right.  Another big problem with all of the Hasbro helmets are the eyes.  And thirdly, the rebreather is always way too small and not pronounced enough.

(http://a1.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/386734_2528209257581_1623940435_2390149_533515153_n.jpg)

(http://a1.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/385138_2528184616965_1623940435_2390123_607808597_n.jpg)

(http://a5.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/375339_2528195177229_1623940435_2390135_941563805_n.jpg)

Let me know what you think of my current rough sculpt.  I want criticism.  I do want to get this perfect and make the ultimate helmet, then cast the hell out of it and put it on all of my figures.

Have at it!

CHEWIE, who is Evergray?  The helmet on the right is really good IMO.
Title: Re: Most desperately needed figure of all time: Accurate stormtrooper - UPDATED 12/2
Post by: CHEWIE on December 2, 2011, 10:51 PM
Here's a little newsfeed on Evergray (http://yakfaceforums.com/main/2011/08/20/amazing-custom-head-sculpts-part-2/). 

You could also look at the Gentle Giant Bust-Up helmets too?  Just an idea.  But your progress is looking very good.
Title: Re: Most desperately needed figure of all time: Accurate stormtrooper - UPDATED 12/2
Post by: Phrubruh on December 3, 2011, 10:40 AM
Well to me the left side isn't portional to the right side. His left eye seems to droop more and the rebreather is larger than the right. The right side needs to be built up a little more. The top of the head needs to be built up more and flatenned. Its kind of pointy right now. Can we get a closer up picture?
Title: Re: Most desperately needed figure of all time: Accurate stormtrooper - UPDATED 12/2
Post by: Dressel Rebel on December 3, 2011, 07:12 PM
Got some more work done on this today.  Thanks Phruby I got most of that done I think.  I see an eye that needs work now.  I'd say I'm about 60-70% completed now.  Note the progress.  Particularly the rebreather and the top of the helmet:

(http://a5.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/384323_2535386357004_1623940435_2392049_631751791_n.jpg)

(http://a8.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/375277_2535389157074_1623940435_2392051_2039421249_n.jpg)


Here is my developing version with some of Hasbro's renditions:

(http://a2.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/383674_2535388117048_1623940435_2392050_1718247880_n.jpg)

Hasbro's versions are always too underscaled!

(http://photos.imageevent.com/afap/wallpapers/movies/starwarsanewhope/storm-trooper.jpg)
Title: Re: Most desperately needed figure of all time: Accurate stormtrooper - UPDATED 12/3
Post by: Phrubruh on December 4, 2011, 11:25 AM
That is a lot better. The left eye is still droopy but your working on it. Looking at the line up of real stormtroopers, it seems every helmet is completely different from the next. I wonder how that happened if they made one cast.
Title: Re: Most desperately needed figure of all time: Accurate stormtrooper - UPDATED 12/3
Post by: Dressel Rebel on December 4, 2011, 07:28 PM
Big progress today.  I am approaching completion in the next day or so, and then will begin the process of outfitting all of my stormtrooper figures with this new helmet.  I am currently at 85% completion roughly.


Here he is from the side angle, side, and front:

(http://a8.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/384069_2543023987940_1623940435_2395034_1176180110_n.jpg)

(http://a2.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/389538_2543032508153_1623940435_2395035_952387713_n.jpg)

(http://a4.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/384559_2543034628206_1623940435_2395036_1472904427_n.jpg)

Here he is next to the Hasbro version.  I like to think I have officially produced a better helmet than they have, but I understand I am kind of biased  ;)

(http://a6.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/380545_2543037308273_1623940435_2395037_191231838_n.jpg)

And here he is with the best examples Hasbro has produced of the Snowtrooper, and Scout Trooper (Nik Sant version)

(http://a5.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/385123_2543040388350_1623940435_2395038_61586643_n.jpg)

(http://a3.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/384991_2543042428401_1623940435_2395039_1223750287_n.jpg)

Very excited to start fitting these onto my stormtroopers and get them painted!!!  This helmet has been my most wanted item since Hasbro started reissuing figures in 1995.
Title: Re: Accurate stormtrooper helmet for Vintage Stormtrooper almost done - UPDATED 12/4
Post by: Diddly on December 5, 2011, 05:01 PM
Looks great Dressel. The eyes seem kind of off to me still (the left one looks a little bigger and the right one seems to still be drooping) but I'll wait and rejudge it after I see your final/painted version.

Any plans on making casts and selling them?
Title: Re: Accurate stormtrooper helmet for Vintage Stormtrooper almost done - UPDATED 12/4
Post by: Phrubruh on December 6, 2011, 01:47 PM
Any plans on making casts and selling them?

That's a good idea. Please make casts.
Title: Re: Accurate stormtrooper helmet for Vintage Stormtrooper almost done - UPDATED 12/4
Post by: Dressel Rebel on December 6, 2011, 04:05 PM
I love you guys.

I'm going to try casting with a white resin tomorrow so it requires minimal painting, just the black eyes and couple of gray areas.

I'll post pics when I have some.
Title: Re: Accurate stormtrooper helmet for Vintage Stormtrooper almost done - UPDATED 12/4
Post by: Nicklab on December 6, 2011, 07:38 PM
Looks like a good cast so far.  It seems like it may be sitting a tiny bit high on the neck post.  Now is this a full head sculpt, or a helmet?

One thing you might want to be prepared for if you cast is that it may shrink.  This is something that even Hasbro can't avoid with production at the mass scale.  So give it a decent ammount of time to cool.  Otherwise you might run into potential deformities.
Title: Re: Accurate stormtrooper helmet for Vintage Stormtrooper almost done - UPDATED 12/4
Post by: Jesse James on December 6, 2011, 09:56 PM
shrinkage (huh huh huh) with resins is generally negligible...  There's actually special ones that shrink more, if you want, but general purpose ones don't shrink much at all.
Title: Re: Accurate stormtrooper helmet for Vintage Stormtrooper almost done - UPDATED 12/4
Post by: Dressel Rebel on December 6, 2011, 10:12 PM
shrinkage (huh huh huh) with resins is generally negligible...  There's actually special ones that shrink more, if you want, but general purpose ones don't shrink much at all.

Yeah good looking out Nick and Jesse.  I got the shrinkage issue under control.

I tried copying the head sculpt with some impression materials that are the equivalent of silly putty at the office today just to see if I could get out of buying a ton of stuff to start copying the head.  It was just okay.  So I slapped a quick coat of paint on this junky first copy, then decided I still wanted to rework the mouth a little bit, so ignore the hunk of uncured resin in the middle of the helmet and this is just a quick 5 minute paint job and a rough copy with a bad impression material.  Just ignore all the unpolished crap on it, that's just a very rough cheapo test casting:

(http://a6.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/385542_2556775891729_1623940435_2400206_1807131097_n.jpg)

So you can see the general size and shape of the stormie helmet next to Hasbro's which is on the left.  Don't worry the quality of the final casts is going to be pristine, this is just to give you a rough size/shape with some color.

So what I did after that was I went out and got a quality mold material and that will be curing for the next day or so around the original sculpture that I showed you yesterday.  Then I got some white casting material, so the helmets won't even need to be painted except for the small black and gray areas.

I don't think I'm supposed to use the new quality mold for a couple days, when I do make the first real helmet, I'll post it here.
Title: Re: Accurate stormtrooper helmet for Vintage Stormtrooper almost done - UPDATED 12/4
Post by: Dressel Rebel on December 6, 2011, 10:15 PM
Looks like a good cast so far.  It seems like it may be sitting a tiny bit high on the neck post.  Now is this a full head sculpt, or a helmet?


It's a full head sculpt.  You can vary how high or low you want it to sit on the neck post.  Also it can be dremmeled out to be a removable helmet.
Title: Re: Accurate stormtrooper helmet for Vintage Stormtrooper almost done - UPDATED 12/4
Post by: Dressel Rebel on December 8, 2011, 09:25 PM
So today I completely finished the stormtrooper helmet 100%.  It is tight.

2 days ago I made a mold of a Marvel Universe A.I.M. terrorist head for a test run, before I dropped my 2 weeks worth of work on the stormie helmet sculpt into an unknown material.  The results are awesome.  I was able to make a perfect replica with Alumilite silicone rubber mold and casting resin:

(http://a1.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/393596_2569620252830_1623940435_2404264_1438993350_n.jpg)

So, taking that into account, I went ahead and immersed my stormie helmet sculpt into the rubber concoction.  Demolding will be on Saturday morning and then I can start casting helmets.  The mold is capable of popping out a helmet every 5 minutes.  I'm going to use bright white for most of them so the thing is basically painted already.  Here's my stormie sculpt next to one of Hasbro's:

(http://a5.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/384084_2569623532912_1623940435_2404266_1232465293_n.jpg)

(http://a3.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/374267_2569627133002_1623940435_2404267_1416665858_n.jpg)

I guess I can make some molds of my Marvel custom sculpts too eventually, Ghost, Swordsman, Sandman, Chen Lu, Penance just to name a few.

I need to order some white resin, all I have right now is tan, and I'm not painting 100 helmets for my collection (except the black/grey areas).  I'd rather they pop out of the mold every five minutes 90% painted.
Title: Re: Accurate stormtrooper helmet for Vintage Stormtrooper almost done - UPDATED 12/4
Post by: Nicklab on December 8, 2011, 09:48 PM
Looks like a good cast so far.  It seems like it may be sitting a tiny bit high on the neck post.  Now is this a full head sculpt, or a helmet?


It's a full head sculpt.  You can vary how high or low you want it to sit on the neck post.  Also it can be dremmeled out to be a removable helmet.

Okay.  You're probably going to have better results with the full head.  The removable helmets (that Hasbro has done) are so much more prone to deformation, and it's simply because the tolerances are so tight at that scale.

If you want some good movie reference pics, check out this page (http://disparue.org/gallery/5/movies/sw/4/index.php?page=5).  You can see some really good screen caps of Stormtroopers close up.
Title: Re: Accurate stormtrooper helmet for Vintage Stormtrooper almost done - UPDATED 12/4
Post by: Dressel Rebel on December 8, 2011, 10:11 PM

If you want some good movie reference pics, check out this page (http://disparue.org/gallery/5/movies/sw/4/index.php?page=5).  You can see some really good screen caps of Stormtroopers close up.

Thanks, if I end up needing to refine my sculpt when I start churning out cast copies, I'll be using that.

I would have never had to do this project in the first place if Hasbro had used that when they rolled out this beauty:

(http://www.rebelscum.com/TAC/TAC20stormhelmfr.jpg)

But now that the sculpting is finished, I'm really glad they gave me the reason.
Title: Re: Accurate stormtrooper helmet for Vintage Stormtrooper almost done - UPDATED 12/4
Post by: CHEWIE on December 8, 2011, 11:35 PM
Dressel, that helmet we were discussing is en route to you.
Title: Re: Accurate stormtrooper helmet for Vintage Stormtrooper almost done - UPDATED 12/4
Post by: Dressel Rebel on December 9, 2011, 02:35 PM
Dressel, that helmet we were discussing is en route to you.

You're the man CHEWIE.  Albert Pujols was a fool for doing that to you.
Title: Re: Accurate stormtrooper helmet for Vintage Stormtrooper almost done - UPDATED 12/4
Post by: Dressel Rebel on December 14, 2011, 07:44 PM
Well a few days ago I got a stormtrooper helmet in the mail from CHEWIE, which is the mini-bust Gentle Giant variety, a perfect fit for our 3.75" Hasbro figures.  I immediately made a mold and made a bunch of casts from Alumilite white plastic.  I cleaned them up and painted 2 of them.

Any white spots you see in the black paint on the left eyes of antennae are light reflections.

(http://a5.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/380824_2613516070198_1623940435_2419744_1772012652_n.jpg)

Here are 2 painted and 2 unpainted casts:

(http://a8.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/378606_2613514590161_1623940435_2419743_955571133_n.jpg)

Hasbro's on the left, mine on the right:

(http://a2.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/381343_2613513230127_1623940435_2419742_1225247309_n.jpg)

And for sandie Hasbro's on the right, mine on the left:

(http://a4.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/382797_2613511470083_1623940435_2419741_1533844495_n.jpg)

Victory!!  At long last, stormtroopers that actually look how they are supposed to!  Look how smashed and out of proportion Hasbro's helmets look next to proper sculpts.  Holy cow.

Sooooo guess I have about 100 more to paint.  I have hated every stormie helmet since 1995, a real albatross to this hobby IMO.  The iconic stormtrooper, always a dud.

But now, fixed!!

Thanks again to CHEWIE for his help.  I owe you one.
Title: Re: Accurate stormtrooper helmet for Vintage Stormtrooper - UPDATED 12/14
Post by: Phrubruh on December 16, 2011, 11:30 AM
The final product came out fantastic! Congratulations on an amazing helmet.
Title: Re: Accurate stormtrooper helmet for Vintage Stormtrooper - UPDATED 12/14
Post by: JesseVader08 on January 4, 2012, 03:05 AM
Wow, you did a hell of a job with this project.  Congrats on not only tackling this, but doing it so well!
Title: Re: Accurate stormtrooper helmet for Vintage Stormtrooper - UPDATED 12/14
Post by: Jesse James on January 4, 2012, 02:35 PM
I wanted to just chime in too Matt, and say you did a really nice job sculpting that.  I'm not a very savy sculptor but you've got some real talent.  I imagine your profession's helped you learn casting well too. ;)  A buddy of mine makes prosthetics and he learned that way...  I just picked it up along the way in customizing to where I made a pretty professional set-up in my shop to make mine, but it's got so much dust on it I'd have to start an archeological dig to find it I think.

Really though, just wanted to say how nice the final product turned out...  Really sharp man.