JediDefender.com Forums
Community => Watto's Junk Yard => Topic started by: Scott on June 21, 2006, 08:20 PM
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I've seen the Dateline thing 4-5 times now. Part of me is still amazed that there are that MANY people out there to solicit on-line minor sex. The other part of me is amazed how long NBC has milked this show, they have to have done this 10 times at least. I've heard talk that there might be a series based on the premise of setting up sex predators.
Not sure if I'm sick of the premise of the act or sick of the show itself but I'm sick of something
Thoughts?
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I've seen it twice. Shocking.
It's like a train wreck...
But if it's that easy to catch these guys and it's not entrapment, why aren't there set ups like this all over the freaking place at all times...
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I'm fascinated by this show, however I'm a little concerned that the mass perception of child sexual abuse might focus too much on "strangers." A vast majority of child sexual abuse is conducted by family members or family "friends," hopefully there will be some sort of show or something that will direct people to that aspect of this problem. Of course, that probably won't result in as interesting television as "stinging" online sexual predators.
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I've seen it twice. Shocking.
It's like a train wreck...
But if it's that easy to catch these guys and it's not entrapment, why aren't there set ups like this all over the freaking place at all times...
Actually I've read that even small local law enforcement officers have set up similar stings using the Dateline model.
I would think that you'd either need someone on staff that can do it or you'd have to get with the Perverted Justice people to help you out. I'm sure that budgets for that type of thing might also not always be what's needed to get the job done.
As bad as it is, though, I still can't believe that people are shocked this is going on. ****, my friends and I were picking up women across campus using IM programs back in 1989. That was like the first thing we learned how to do on the VMS systems!
A lot of these parents can't be that much older than me, they should be relatively savvy but, apparently they aren't. They don't have any clue about what's going on on-line. That's why a (mostly) boring web site like MySpace.com is suddenly the top news story almost nightly. Internet predators are a problem but come on, the same people that install security systems in their house, lock their car doors while driving and put in anti-theft devices suddenly get stupid when they see that "Windows XP" logo pop up on their computer screens.
E...
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I've seen the Dateline thing 4-5 times now. Part of me is still amazed that there are that MANY people out there to solicit on-line minor sex.
Exactly.
Consider this: these set-ups take place in 1 city at a time, and usually net about 20 people per night. If you consider how many cities there are in America and extrapolate these statistics, I think it basically means that with unlimited manpower you could be arresting 1 million people per night. Or in other words, I think about 1 out of every 10 Americans you come across is a total creep and a psycho.
It is truly alarming how much human debris and scum is present on this planet.
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Oh and I'd also like to add that it's even more alarming how many of these guys are actually trying to sleep with little boys, and not little girls.
As if the latter were not bad enough.
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Take that a step further, how many of them are posting here...or work/go to school with you?
I'm firmly convinced that a lot of this happened back in the day as well, thing is, it wasn't as easy and it wasn't as easy to catch the pervs
One other personal note, one of my friends brother got busted by Perveted Justice for chatting up a 13 year old. So the part of them being around you all the time is more ture than you think
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Take that a step further, how many of them are posting here...or work/go to school with you?
I've always been suspicious of a couple regulars here.
I'm firmly convinced that a lot of this happened back in the day as well, thing is, it wasn't as easy and it wasn't as easy to catch the pervs
The internet has allowed these pieces of human debris to operate in the comfort of their own home, and to attempt hundreds of contacts per night. They're bound to get lucky on one of those tries. Unfortunately the internet has given them a tool that they never had 20 years ago. It supplies ease, and comfort.
One other personal note, one of my friends brother got busted by Perveted Justice for chatting up a 13 year old. So the part of them being around you all the time is more ture than you think
When you say "chat up a 13 year old," basically you mean he used sexual content and knew they were underage. Right?
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He was caught by a PervertedJustice operative trying to solicit sex from someone he thought to be 13.
I don't get how that isn't entrapment (like Rob said above)...I'm all for it if it means getting help for those that can use it and jail for those that deserve it
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He was caught by a PervertedJustice operative trying to solicit sex from someone he thought to be 13.
I don't get how that isn't entrapment (like Rob said above)...I'm all for it if it means getting help for those that can use it and jail for those that deserve it
I can't think of anything better to use a tax buck on, than implementing programs like this in every city to get villains off the street. Now there's a program worth funding.
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I don't get how that isn't entrapment (like Rob said above)...
I think it's a lot like he prostitution stings, where cops dress up like hookers. I think as long as the PervJustice folks get the pervert on the other end to bring up the sex act talk first, then it's not entrapment.
One other personal note, one of my friends brother got busted by Perveted Justice for chatting up a 13 year old. So the part of them being around you all the time is more ture than you think
Creepy... :o
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He was caught by a PervertedJustice operative trying to solicit sex from someone he thought to be 13.
I don't get how that isn't entrapment (like Rob said above)...I'm all for it if it means getting help for those that can use it and jail for those that deserve it
The way they're getting solid prosecutions out of this is from the total chain of events. The perps, or pervs if you like, have chatted up someone they believe to be underage. In the chat the perps engage and solicit sex or some sexual intent. In some states this is considered a crime and the perps can be arrested for this alone.
Where things turn serious is when the perps actually show up at the sting house. When they show up and enter the house they are showing a clear intent to engage in some sexual activity with someone they believe to be a minor. And if they show up with liquor and/or birth control of some type that's just cementing the intent. And then the guy from Dateline shows up every time with the log of the perps chat with the decoy from Perverted Justice and reads it back to them verbatim. In every instance of this that they've shown there doesn't seem to be a misunderstanding. IMO, the more of these dirtbags they can lock up the better.
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I think it's a lot like he prostitution stings, where cops dress up like hookers. I think as long as the PervJustice folks get the pervert on the other end to bring up the sex act talk first, then it's not entrapment.
This is one of those instances where I'm all for them pushing the law to it's limits. If they have to talk suggestively to get the perv to suggest sex or something....yes, they're luring the guy, but they're luring a guy who was going to take advantage of a real kid if they didn't.
So did they prevent a crime, or did they arrest a guy for a crime that he may not have commited if they hadn't arrested him?
I guess it's a little like Minority Report, but again...I'm for it in this instance. They just better not start taking liberties like that with other areas of the law. The areas that I like to break. ;D
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More power to them. I won't talk to girls younger than 16 online at all. Period. End of the discussion. It makes me nervous. Dressel gave me some good avice on that front.
But the way these kids dress and make themselves look these days... :o :-X
Kevin
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I don't catch Dateline often but my buddy sends links of the predator stuff to me all the time from his office, and usually highlights for me which predators he found the most amusing (the ones that disrobe as they enter the house or whatever). It's fun watching these people get lined up like that.
It's sick though beyond belief that there are this many out there, you're right Scott. I'm protective as it is, I think this only makes a parent want to be worse.
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Take that a step further, how many of them are posting here...or work/go to school with you?
This is not a failsafe, but everyone with children should use it:
http://www.registeredoffenderslist.org/
I think I started a thread about it a few months back when I first found a similar site.
Obviously it won't tell you about all the dangers because people who are on their first go at this kind of thing and people who haven't been caught yet aren't in the database, and not every one of these pervs are assaulting children, but it's a must for parents.
There are 61 REGISTERED sex offenders in my zip code according to that link.
According to this one: http://www.familywatchdog.us/ , in what looks to be about a 3 and a half mile radius of me, there are 1,149 registered sex offenders. Granted I live in the heart of a major metropolitan area and there are lots and lots of people here, but still....
1149
The freakiest part is seeing little dots near schools and ****. If you click on the dots you can generally get names and addresses and in most cases even pictures of the offenders.
The closest one to me is a little over half a mile away: Lonnie Dye:
(https://records.txdps.state.tx.us/soPhotos/06960566-20040706112121.jpg)
Within a block of him are Joe Hubbard, Kenneth Bogda, and someone named Camilo Balderas (no photo).
(https://records.txdps.state.tx.us/soPhotos/01745571-20040303104612.jpg)(https://records.txdps.state.tx.us/soPhotos/03796315-061420001324.jpg)
Creepy stuff.
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1 in my zip, 2 in my gf's zip...
A trip down near the end of my road makes me think there's more than 1 in my zip though... I'd wager half the people I see on a trip to town are capable of anything. Buncha freaks.
BTW the carnival is in town in my hometown right now... I feel certain our local sex offender list at least quadrupled as they pulled in to set up.
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My wife and I watch this every time it is on. Partially because we had an incident affect us personally this past year. While at the mall with our daughter and son, a person approached myself and daughter while my son and wife were in another part of the mall. This guy stood maybe 10 feet away simply staring my daughter down. She was only 6 months old at the time. He continued looking at her for 4-5 minutes before approaching. He then began babbling how much he always wanted a daughter but he and his wife could not have one. First, he had no wedding band. Second, I could not see any person in the world being married to this creep. He went to touch her and I freaked out ready to drop kick this guy. I asked him in not so many words to move on. He then moved off about 10-15 feet and just continued to stare at her. A really uneasy feeling came over me and the whole situation was very strange and uncomforting. I ended up leaving and finding my wife at that point and explaining what had happened. Then I pointed him out to her when leaving. Now this happened in a part of the Mall which has a small kiddy play area where usually 10-15 children are always at. You know the saying that your first instincts are usually right? I looked up on the state database for sex offenders when I returned home. Sure enough he was in there. I printed the picture and brought it back to the Mall explaining what had happened. Flash forward a few weeks back when another one of these scumbags were arrested in the same mall, this time at a Chuck E Cheese. This guy had his pants unzipped and was taking photos of the children around him. Parents beware. These type of people are in greater numbers than you could believe. Parents should take the time and review that database occasionally. Its nice since it tells you how many are in each town, where they work, live, etc.
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My wife and I have watched this almost every time it has been on as well, and it is amazing how many sick people there are out there. Its good to see this brought to a more national level, so hopefully parents or friends of people with kids will realize what a danger this is. There are so many kids out there now that seem to have unsupervised access to the computer/internet whenever they want, and it seems like this can happen all too easily. That story Jim mentioned above is just way creepy, and he handled it great. Hopefully they can continue to get people like this off the street. We were talking how that must be such a gratifying job to be working towards getting these people the help they need, or sending them to jail. Plus, with these Dateline shows, some of the things these people have in mind is just weird - and sick - let alone the fact its with children/teens. I just don't understand it, but it is disgusting to know there are so many people like this out there.
On the other topic, yeah Dateline has really gone crazy with this. I don't think that the show (at least the Wednesday edition) has had anything but this on for a couple of months. I was commenting to the Mrs. the other night when watching this again that they just as well change the name from Dateline to "Catching Pervs" or something along those lines. They don't cover any topics anymore - not that I'm complaining, I'm glad they are working towards getting these people off the streets and keeping children safe - but some of the shows really do milk it to some extent, because it seems like I've seen the same footage of some prevs more than once on there.
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Thanks for that link, Rob. 239 offenders in my town, and one lives on my old street. That freaks me the **** out.
To stay on topic though, I've seen the show, but I don't watch much, as it gets disgusting after a while. NBC is milking it for what it's worth though.
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Jesus, did you guys see the episode of Dateline where the perp brought his 5 year old son to meet his underage "sweetie?"
I can't believe someone would stoop low enough to have sex with a minor let alone bring their 5 year old kid with them!!!
Guys like this deserve prison time --- if you catch my drift.
>:(
PS - Jim, how did you restrain yourself from not punching that guy in the face?
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PS - Jim, how did you restrain yourself from not punching that guy in the face?
Intelligence mostly, I'm sure. Consider this: rather than doing what he did, Jim hauls off and punches a convicted felon in the face. Fight's on. Chances of Jim KO'ing this punk without training is not good. Now he's got a 50-50 shot that he's going to get knocked out, leaving his daughter sitting there with no protection against the creep grabbing her and running off.
He handled it perfectly.
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8)
Yeah, I know. All I do is talk **** - I never throw punches.
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Yeah, I know. All I do is talk **** - I never throw punches.
Thats a good way to get knocked out yourself.
Kevin
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PS - Jim, how did you restrain yourself from not punching that guy in the face?
Intelligence mostly, I'm sure. Consider this: rather than doing what he did, Jim hauls off and punches a convicted felon in the face. Fight's on. Chances of Jim KO'ing this punk without training is not good. Now he's got a 50-50 shot that he's going to get knocked out, leaving his daughter sitting there with no protection against the creep grabbing her and running off.
He handled it perfectly.
I would've killed the guy. Of course I'm not a parent yet--just an uncle with 13+ years of time in the military.
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Yeah, I know. All I do is talk **** - I never throw punches.
Thats a good way to get knocked out yourself.
Kevin
So far so good! ;)
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PS - Jim, how did you restrain yourself from not punching that guy in the face?
Intelligence mostly, I'm sure. Consider this: rather than doing what he did, Jim hauls off and punches a convicted felon in the face. Fight's on. Chances of Jim KO'ing this punk without training is not good. Now he's got a 50-50 shot that he's going to get knocked out, leaving his daughter sitting there with no protection against the creep grabbing her and running off.
He handled it perfectly.
Actually upon first glance this guy looked like your typical scalper who lives in his mothers basement. Sweats, greasy hair, overweight, etc. My grandmother could of knocked this loser out.
The problem with reacting how I would of liked to would most likely resulted in this bastard being protected by loopholes in the law. I get sued and he runs off and buys a stash of kiddy porn with his winnings. Their are two problems here. He was in a playground area in a mall. If this was a normal playground he could of been fined and possibly arrested, etc. But since this was a mall and stores surround this area he is protected and his rights allow him to frequent retail stores. Trust me I let him know how I felt in a few choice words. And the scary part was there was no real denial from his end when I mentioned these things.
I am not a violent person and never have been. But my wife and I agree that if someone ever touched our kids then payback would be in order. To take a child's innocence IMO is just short of killing a person. That person's life is forever changed. Thats why I agree with the few states that have the death penalty for these choice citizens.
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You're right.
In a perfect world, you'd hit him once and he'd fall while the cops come and arrest him; no questions asked.
My gut would tell me to hit him, but my brain would kick in and tell me to think logically - really, what would punching him solve? You'd feel good for a second and then all hell would break loose!
I can't remember the last time I was in a fight - I wouldn't even think of getting involved in one now with two kids and a decent career.
I'd probably get ****** up anyway.
8)
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I've spotted this show on several times, but this week's was the only one where I actually sat and watched it for the whole hour. I say keep it up; the law of averages indicates that the freaks that Dateline catches are just the tip of the iceberg. Any assistance that law enforcement can get in locking these pigs up should be welcome.
In most cases, I'm against the death penalty, but as a father to two little kids, I think any conviction for anything involving kids should be a capital offense. And not just lethal injection, but a good old fashioned hangin'.
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Hey Rob,
Thanks for posting those web sites...there are three people near me for "minor" unnamed offenses and one with a conviction for sexual assault on a child by one in a person of trust....and great he's a repeat offender!
I noticed the totals also went down by one...then I remembered Ryan's not in school right now! :P
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If the law is not going to penalize these people properly then I suggest three things.
Castration, an ankle bracelet to keep track of these a-holes and some kind of scarlet letter tatooed on their forehead.
But that would be too cruel according to many people. Seems like criminals have too many rights at times.
I am all for giving someone a second chance in life for messing up, but pedophiles are that rare case where the first time it takes place it cannot be overlooked or forgiven.
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In most cases, I'm against the death penalty, but as a father to two little kids, I think any conviction for anything involving kids should be a capital offense. And not just lethal injection, but a good old fashioned hangin'.
Great God and little fishies! I never thought I'd hear that from you. And you probably never thought you'd hear this from me:
We totally agree.
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I am all for giving someone a second chance in life for messing up, but pedophiles are that rare case where the first time it takes place it cannot be overlooked or forgiven.
I would agree 100% with you, except that I find myself sympathizing with those guys that go to jail when they're 18 for sleeping with some girl they go to school with because the parents got angry about it and charged him with the crime.
I also find myself being a hypocrite when it comes to hearing about those female teachers that sleep with the high school boys. I always think "right on kiddo!" for the guy, but if it was a male teacher, I'm sure I'd be like "lock him up!".
On the other hand, when it comes to predators like the one Jim was describing, I'm all for locking them up and throwing away the key. Let them be someone's bitch in prison.
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This is not a failsafe, but everyone with children should use it:
http://www.registeredoffenderslist.org/
I think I started a thread about it a few months back when I first found a similar site.
You did start that thread Rob. Sadly, Canada has no such database up here and it's still illegal to do such a list in Canada.
There've been more than enough jackasses watching my daughter in various locations. While it's disturbing, my daughter has noticed them doing so and is uncomfortable when it happens. That she's aware makes me quite happy with her. Not so happy with the perv watching her. >:(
I would agree 100% with you, except that I find myself sympathizing with those guys that go to jail when they're 18 for sleeping with some girl they go to school with because the parents got angry about it and charged him with the crime.
What's the age for statuatory in the U.S.? Here in Canada it's 16 for consent, so an 18 year old dating a 16 year old and/or having sex is legal. As a parent, I'd question the difference in maturity being suitable for anything beyond that (e.g. 18 and 15 or 14). I know the girls are physically mature at that point, but emotionally I doubt it in many respects. I wouldn't think the interests would be all that similar either. My daughter may hate me, but when she's 13 and brings over a guy that's 17 his ass will be gone awfully quick, complete with threats of charges and me kicking his ass from here to Tuesday.
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I would agree 100% with you, except that I find myself sympathizing with those guys that go to jail when they're 18 for sleeping with some girl they go to school with because the parents got angry about it and charged him with the crime.
I tend to think the same thing. I mean how many of us lost our virginity before 18? Plus with a CONSENTING woman of the same age. If we all got charged there would be about 10-15 kids in each grade of public school.
This reminds me of when I was 17 and dating a girl who was 19. We were trespassing and getting busy on private property. In short we got caught by the Police and after checking our ID's they asked me if I was consenting to sex and if I needed any assistance. I found it pretty comical at the time.
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As a parent, I'd question the difference in maturity being suitable for anything beyond that (e.g. 18 and 15 or 14). I know the girls are physically mature at that point, but emotionally I doubt it in many respects. I wouldn't think the interests would be all that similar either. My daughter may hate me, but when she's 13 and brings over a guy that's 17 his ass will be gone awfully quick, complete with threats of charges and me kicking his ass from here to Tuesday.
I told my wife the other night that our daugher cant start dating til she's 19. ;D
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19? :o
Try 35. ;)
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This reminds me of when I was 17 and dating a girl who was 19. We were trespassing and getting busy on private property. In short we got caught by the Police and after checking our ID's they asked me if I was consenting to sex and if I needed any assistance. I found it pretty comical at the time.
When I was 17, I was also dating a girl who was 21. Not quite illegal, but 4 years is a pretty big difference. Maturity wise, she probably had at least 10 on me. ;D
It's really tough to say where the age lines should be drawn, and how to prosecute the people that are right on the edges of them. For example, I wouldn't freak out if I heard a 15 year old freshman in high school was sleeping with an 18 or even 19 year old senior. Seems like half the freshmen girls in my high school dated seniors, and those guys could probably all be locked up for it.
Should they have been? I don't know. It would have made dating easier for me, that's for sure. :D
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19? :o
Try 35. ;)
LOL :) Feel free to pass on any advice ;)
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Oh that I could Jim, my daughter's only six, so I don't have much experience at this point. We did just move to a street with lots of other kids though, mostly girls. So there'll probably be a large collection of shotguns in the neighbourhood within the next 5-7 years though. ;)
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I hate this kind of stuff. Because of this, my parents almost stopped me from going on forums.
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As a general aside, we're currently passing legistlation here in SC to make Child Molestation a capital crime.
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As a general aside, we're currently passing legistlation here in SC to make Child Molestation a capital crime.
Good, it was long overdue. Now if the creep doesn't die during the 30 years spent on death row on the tax payer's buck, you'll actually get to use it.
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Well, this skit (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gg21wwwoLsA) is about as funny as Myspace Pervs can get.
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We had a "brush" with a repeat child molestor last year. We had contracted someone to add a sunroom addition onto our house. The owner of the company came over, put his laptop on our kitchen table and proceeded to show us various plans and options on said laptop. He commented on pictures of our then 3 year old little boy. Fast forward 6 weeks and a large deposit later -- we had not seen hide nor hair of him. We went to his office and it was locked down. I did a Google search and found out he was arrested at Dulles Airport upon returning from the middle east. He had been there selling and making videos of himself engaging in sex acts with minor boys and girls. The laptop contained some of his best work. His 2 year old son was on some of the videos sitting on the bed drinking his bottle while daddy was doing his thing with a 10 year old. They were able to later identify some of the children in the vidoes as children of clients that he was building sunrooms for. It still makes me sick to think that he did this and that he was in our home. Worse still, I still have nightmares thinking that he could've been here everyday with my children. I wouldn't have left them alone with him, but just the idea that he would have looked at them or had any sexual thoughts about them is making me nauseous, even now. Before hiring him and his company I checked them out with the Better Business Bureau and the Secretary of State to see if there were any complaints. The company checked out fine -- it never occured to me to check out the owner on a personal level. I will from now on.