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Community => Watto's Junk Yard => Topic started by: Mikey D on March 10, 2010, 07:50 AM
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Anyone else looking forward to The Pacific (http://www.hbo.com/#/index.html/eNrjcmbOYM5nLtQsy0xJzXfMS8ypLMlMds7PK0mtKFHPz0mBCQUkpqf6JeamcjIysskng+TzSmwNDcwNjMzN2RjZGAF9nhZw), the "sequel" to Band of Brothers? Starts this Sunday. I specifically subscribed to HBO just for this mini-series. If it's half as good as BoB, we're in for a treat (I fully expect it to be just as good if not better).
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It's on my "to watch" radar, and already programmed on the DVR in case I forget. Can't wait.
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I don't have HBO, but the DVD set will be worthy of a blind purchase.
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Anyone catch the premiere of "The Pacific" tonight? Pretty intense way to start the series.
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thought so too....definitely has a different "feel" to than Band of Brothers did. Have a feeling this is going to be told in flashbacks to their lives in the states, rather than sequentially.
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Jesse I got those DVDs a few years ago. Very, very good. And I believe the DVDs have some additional footage that was deemed too graphic for the 60/70s.
Interesting that television had a different standard than books. Growing up I was very interested in WWII, building models and reading books on it voraciously. The Ballantine's Illustrated History of World War II series of books was predominantly what I would latch on to as they were relatively inexpensive and readily available. The first dead body I ever saw in pictures was in the issue dealing with Tarawa.
I would highly recommend that series of books to anyone and I'm trying to complete my collection of them. There are something like 150 in the series (naturally as soon as I start buying something on Ebay the price increases until I lose interest). They are not without flaws and the quality of the writing is variable depending upon the particular author. What seems most notable to me is the relative lack of bias and anger in them. They can be quite critical of both allied and axis actions from an analytical point of view. They're typically only 160 or so pages each but most definitely not produced in the era of big print to make the books seem larger. It's the smallest font I've come across in books in a very long time.
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For those who caught the first episode (I got to watch it again tonight), anyone want to share thoughts?
The landing was interesting/funny almost because you had a tension built up because of going on that ride before... Japanese landings were often different though, than compared to Normandy's D-Day.
I thought the ending was also somewhat funny, but a little prophetic as well. There was definitely more to that than the guys just joking around, coming from an outside observer's POV. That made it kind of sad/scary in a way.
I thought the sequence with the distraught Japanese Soldier was poignant and powerful. I thought it was shocking for a first episode.
This is definitely not Band of Brothers as I just got done telling others... I think it'll be faster paced because it's the same number of episodes covering a longer period of actual time. I also believe the series is going to focus less on the relationships of soldiers who serve throughout together, and more on a few who serve intermingled to some degree at various points, as well as focusing on the battles themselves and what it was like to be just a marine going through the time period from the start of service after Pearl Harbor to Okinawa.
It's an interesting series in its first episode alone, so I'm anxious to see episode 2. I like to watch these a couple times because I inevitably miss things for some reason or another.
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I was shocked by the single japanese soldier, penned down and toyed with, as well. It seemed so early for the soldiers to already be that cool about shooting at a man...even an enemy. I would have thought they would have captured him. I suppose it's based on witness accounts, but it still just seemed a bit inhuman and unrealistic.
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Well, being that I don't have HBO, I'm sadly going to have to wait until the DVD comes out to catch this series.
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I was shocked by the single japanese soldier, penned down and toyed with, as well. It seemed so early for the soldiers to already be that cool about shooting at a man...even an enemy. I would have thought they would have captured him. I suppose it's based on witness accounts, but it still just seemed a bit inhuman and unrealistic.
The dying Japanese soldier did pull a grenade and blew up two of the US Soldiers that came to help him, so that maybe had something to do with the attitude of the soldiers toying with the Japanese soldier.
I'm not as well versed in WWII history as Jesse, Paul and others, but my general understanding is US Soldiers thought of the Japanese as less than human (and vice versa), unlike the European theater where even though the Germans were the enemy, German POWs were treated with as much respect as possible. Hell even before Hiroshima and Nagasaki and the A-bombs, US planes were fire bombing Japanese cities and killing hundred of thousands of Japanese citizens. Definitely not a high point in US military history.
I thought the first episode was great and am definitely looking forward to the rest.
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I was shocked by the single japanese soldier, penned down and toyed with, as well. It seemed so early for the soldiers to already be that cool about shooting at a man...even an enemy. I would have thought they would have captured him. I suppose it's based on witness accounts, but it still just seemed a bit inhuman and unrealistic.
Remember that many of the U.S. soldiers probably would have seen action in the Pacific theater already. Didn't catch the show, so not sure which battle they are representing, but it is entirely possible that the soldiers involved had already witnessed or heard about atrocities the other way. As Mikey says, not a proud moment in U.S. history perhaps but Japan's History (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nanking_Massacre) is hardly glorious from a modern day humanitarian perspective. War is a different world with different rules.
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It was Guadalcanal.
I think the "Perspective" is important as has been mentioned.
This was their first chance to get back at the Enemy who attacked Pearl Harbor. The fighting they did during the night was impersonal and masked in darkness and muzzle flashes. The Soldier in the river was their first chance to "return" fire face to face. While they thought they were humiliting him, HE was dying with honor according to their code most likely.
No offense to the Greatest Generation, but these guys were MARINES...not Army or National Guard, even back then (especially back then) they were wired to kill right out of the gate. Propaganda was used more then too. It had pretty much de-humanized the enemy, especially in the South Pacific, even this early in the War.
Another thing to consider is that on the march in they did come accross the mutilated bodies of at least 2 other Marines.
It will be an intense series for sure. I'd like to watch it with my Grandfather who was a WWII Marine. I may DVR an episode or two and see what he thinks.
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Yeah, this was pretty early in the war, and I believe they were intending to show it was the first taste of combat for most, if not all, of the characters that were focused on. I believe GC's 6 months or so after Pearl Harbor.
The episode tried hard to show a lot of different perspectives I thought... A soldier with a consience, those without, etc.
They were very distinctly showing the prejudices and preconceptions driven into the heads of the average American as well. When the wounded Japanese Soldier kills a medic and rifleman with a grenade as they tried to help him, one of the Marines watching calls him a "Yellow monkey", which was an image that really was used in propoganda of the times. They were considered sub-human, and closer to a primate in a way.
I think as time went on, and wounded soldiers returned home and took up training jobs within the corps, that those views were being driven out of the minds of soldiers... or at least some were trying to wake up the FNG's for their own good that the Japanese weren't weaklings/inferior fighters. :-\
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Historical perspective is something that definitely needs to be taken into account with The Pacific. The US was attacked and that got the American people mobilized. Men were enlisting in record numbers after the Pearl Harbor attack. And there were many instances of men taking their own lives because of their 4F draft status.
And in the leadup to this battle? American forces were being defeated across the Pacific theater in the early months of 1942. American positions on Wake Island, Guam and the Phillipines had been taken by the Japanese in the leadup to the battle for Guadalcanal. The situation on Guadalcanal grew more dire as the battle progressed. The Marines were left to fend for themselves because the Navy ships offshore were driven off by the Japanese. It makes the Marines lack of mercy seem more understandable. But it was also shown that Japanese wounded would try to take as many Americans with them, too.
I'm also curious to see what some my uncle who is a WWII veteran would say about this. He was in the US Army's 25th ID. He survived the attack on Schofield Barracks by some of the Japanese forces that hit Pearl Harbor. And he fought with US Army forces on Guadalcanal. He told me that Terence Malick's film The Thin Red Line captured some of what happened there. But there's so much more that he's left unsaid.
And is it me, or does The Pacific merit it's own thread?
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And is it me, or does The Pacific merit it's own thread?
Hey! No threads about war allowed!!!111!!11 >:(
(oops - wrong site. Carry on. :P)
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Thanks Greg(g).
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Overall I thought the first episode was decent, but not great. Probably on par with an average Band of Brothers episode.
It'll be interesting to see how they string this series together.
Band of Brothers was great because you got to stay with the same characters and watch them grow/interact throughout the war.
I can't imagine they'll be able to do that with The Pacific as very few ground units fought in more than a couple of battles. I can already see that they're trying to flashback/tie neighborhoods and friends together to create some ties from episode to episode, but I still think it will be mostly isolated stories. I'll also be interested to see if they tell anything from the Navy's point of view due to how important a role they played in the Pacific war.
I got to see a free preview on DirecTV, but don't have HBO, so I'm going to have to wait until this comes out on DVD to finish the series.
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A reminder, now that this topic has it's own thread, Keep the Conversation relevant to the Program or Historical background. If there needs to be topic in the other section to debate right and wrong, do it there.
Nick I think I am glad you brought up that you had an uncle in the ARMY in the Pacific. They were on many of the islands that the Marines were on, but not in the numbers so they ddin't get the recognition.
The 1st Marines fought at Gudalcanal, Pelielu and Okinawa, so a majority of the "BIG" battles. The Canal took 6 months.
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Just a heads up that if you dont have HBO they are offering the episodes free if you have On Demand with your cable service.
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Nick I think I am glad you brought up that you had an uncle in the ARMY in the Pacific. They were on many of the islands that the Marines were on, but not in the numbers so they ddin't get the recognition.
I was glad to see some mention of the Army landing on Guadalcanal in last night's episode. But it only highlighted how woefully undersupplied the Marines were, and how difficult the conditions were for them to deal with. I haven't been able to watch the full episode yet, but the situation looked pretty grim at times.
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Sunday's episode was nuts. The intense 15 minute gun battle with wave after wave of Japanese soldiers was the highlight, but the entire episode was great.
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Indeed, it was intense. There were even doubts about a soldiers ability to pick up a fixed MG like that and fire it from the hip, to show just the sheer super-human-nature of that feat. It's insane to even think about.
It's interesting how this contrasts to BoB so much in that you really grew to know the soldiers in BoB before combat started. There was a whole episode of training, whereas this series really is a different direction.
I think it'll be interesting to see changes in Japanese tactics as the war progresses, as they became a little more conservative as time went on, then swung back the other way.
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Plus the next battle is the Battle of Peleliu. This particular episode should show the roles reversed as the Marines (and later the Army) have to do the attacking against Japanese defenders. No more human wave tactics (for now).
The Marines should start getting M1 Garands for combat too.
I wish this Series had an episode like the first episode of Band of Brothers. I can't tell one character from another. And since they are from different Marine Divisions it is going to get more mixed up.
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All of the Marines in the series appear to be from the 1st Marine Division, albeit from different regiments. But it's clear that the notable Marines in the series like Leckie, Phillips & Basilone were all involved in the Guadalcanal campaign.
There's a huge contrast between the Marines of The Pacific and the men of Easy Company in Band of Brothers. Easy Company and the 506th PIR were constituted in the Spring of 1942. That unit trained together and shipped to England as a unit until they were dropped into Normandy in June 1944. The Marines on the other hand were either from existing units or men who enlisted immediately following the Pearl Harbor attacks. The Marines landed on Guadalcanal 9 months after Pearl Harbor. So to compare the units in terms of their time together may not be an appropriate comparison. But I suspect that over the course of the HBO series the characters will be developed so that the viewers will be able to identify with them more.
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I mistyped..Regiment instead of Division.
Basilone ends up in the 5th Marine Division sometime after his stint training troops and CMOH tour, I think I had division on the brain.
Maybe the episode in Australia on leave will give us a chance to "Meet" the troops a little better.
A bit of the suspense in this one is gone too since we know who lives since it is based on several post war memoirs. I does not take away from the intensity, just the drama of knowing who will make it.
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R Lee Ermey actually did a piece on his show Lock 'N Load about John Basilone and the M1917 machine gun. And in that demonstration they showed that it was possible (albeit difficult) for a Marine to fire that weapon from the hip. Video Here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y3qlUmNRL-g)
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Maybe the episode in Australia on leave will give us a chance to "Meet" the troops a little better.
This is something I was thinking, that the intent is to get you to know them better as the series progresses rather than giving that "You trained with them" feeling that BoB I think wanted you to have... Thus the series name. I think the intent was for you to "be with them" through it all with that series, and the Pacific's not intended to be the same.
A lot of people are inherently drawing comparisons of the two series... I think the Pacific's going to have a more intense feeling to it. I think it already has to some degree, and mostly due to the nature of the combat in the PTO itself.
Japanese defense tactics were very different to their European allies tactics. It'll be another interesting contrast.
I'd love to see something similar tackled on a British or Canadian perspective, or even a Russian perspective, or an axis perspective perhaps. I liked Letters from Iwo Jima a lot, and that's an interesting thought for a mini-series like this.
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Can't wait for this series to air here in Holland as well, which will be by the end of this month. I watch BoB every year, it's such an awesome series. I'm sure the same will apply to The Pacific.
Imagine the producers of these series tackling the Clone Wars or the Galactic Civil War?!
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Incom,
HBO.com, I believe, has the show streaming from their website. I'm not positive but I think I read that, if you're interested in checking it out now.
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Thanks for the headsup Jesse, but I don't think I can view HBO.com content, since I live in the Netherlands. But no worres, there's always my trusty torrent client :-X Nah, I'll wait till 04/07, so I can watch it in HD. We already know the outcome, so nothing to spoil, right? ;)
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Yes, since the outcome is pre-determined and it is Spielberg and Hanks not Tarantino, there won't be any surprise parrallel universe endings.
Have not had a chance to view last nights episode more than 5 mins.
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Yes, since the outcome is pre-determined and it is Spielberg and Hanks not Tarantino, there won't be any surprise parrallel universe endings.
Hah. :D
Well I finally got to see episode 3 tonight (I know, I'm behind). It was an interesting episode since it dealt entirely with their leave... I thought it was interesting that, to train them, they just dumped them 100 miles from where they were with the food rations the Japanese were used to getting, and told to hump it back. That's a good way to test your guys and their fitness I guess.
The budding love stories were a different direction... Not necessarilly what I'm interested in watching, but at the same time it gave a probably much more honest expression of romance at the time, compared to a lot of other movies from the era. Some saw you off, but others wanted you to leave their lives for fear of the pain of losing you in battle. That stung, and was a really sad moment.
Anyway, I've got Episode 4 to watch when I get some time... That'll be never. ::)
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I really like this so far...and I am almost ashamed to admit that I know little to nothing of both of my grandfather's time in the service. I've heard bits and pieces.
My one grandpa was a dentist in the Army and was getting ready to go to Normandy when a guy on the boat he was staging on puked...turns out he had viral Meningitis and soon so too did my grandpa. Did dude puking set the stage for me still being here? I often wonder that.
My other grandpa was also in the Army. He was part of the Italian Invasion and part of the supply chain of some sort. He drove trucks and was a mechanic. We have lots of pictures of him in Rome in front of the Colesseum etc. He used to tell mainly stories as they related to us hunting together. How he went duck hunting on the sea and how he once saw a guy cut a deer in half with a machine gun.
What I don't know is if either actually were involved in combat. Neither really either talked about it and have both since passed on. One of those deals I guess.
Anyway...I know neither were as crazy into it as these Marines were. Truly and absolutely amazing what those guys went through. Even more amazing that they have them talking ahead of each episode, making it all the more special.
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Even more amazing that they have them talking ahead of each episode, making it all the more special.
Well, I finally got to see Part One last night. Very painful to see the Marines get all excited about the sea battle at night, only to find out all of their ships are gone. The skirmish following that was also pretty intense.
This is nearly as awesome as BoB, but I didn't get veterans' interviews before the episode. Does that start with Part Two?
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Tonight's episode was absolutely fantastic...the **** those guys lived through...once again, the sacrifice that all of the armed forces give is truly epic but the Marines especially. Wow
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That was a great episode, I'm surprised more vets arent messed up considering some of the things they would have seen
Go the marines !!
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As much as I look forward to each episode, I know that each one will bring an eventual end to the series/war with nothing new WWII related on the horizon.
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True, but just like BOB, The Pacific shows a lot of what individuals were going through back then.
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That was a good series.
The guys that were alive at the end, I just wanted to shake their hands
People that serve in the armed forces should never have to want for anything.
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Part seven and eight were just awesome. And very sad in the end....