JediDefender.com Forums
Collectibles => Past Hasbro 3.75" Lines => The Legacy Collection => Topic started by: Scott on October 3, 2009, 05:21 PM
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As a lot of others have said, it sure seems like Hasbro is content on killing the Legacy Basic line. Is this the end of our beloved line, finally? :-\
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Probably.
It's already dead north of the border (and some places overseas). I suspect Hasbro got nailed hard by the recession but the BS about Legacy not selling I'm not prepared to buy. They willingly screwing up this aspect of the line to get rid of it. I can see the point to a degree, but I think it will backfire on them. Kids may well be driving and buying the CW stuff in droves, but I doubt they'll sustain the line down the road as they move on to other stuff.
It's mostly ok by me though, there's little more I want really. I'd have kept buying the newer sculpts of figures we already had (OT) and offloaded the older stuff but I'm ok sitting on older sculpts too. Like the Marvel Legends stuff Hasbro made a choice to alienate those deeply invested in the older scale in hopes we'd buy the new scale. Nope, sorry. I don't need a SW fix so badly that I'll buy something I know nothing about. And I'm not saying the CW series isn't enjoyable; what I've seen has been quite good and I didn't even totally hate the movie (no great love either). I'm just not mentally invested in it. If Hasbro is happy no longer taking any of my money so much the better for me.
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Sadly I'm leaning on yes more than a no...
Clone Wars is a cash cow now, but that will only last for so long unless LFL decides to keep renewing the cartoon series... and even then... Yet we get bent over with no kiss and get **** like SW Transformers (sorry these are d-e-a-d here), and the wonderful Legends. I'm just real bitter about how they are treating the classic stuff these days... >:(
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Scott, not sure if you are talking just the Legacy line or figs from the 6 films in general. I would honestly be quite content with Hasbro refocussing mainly on the Clone Wars and upcoming TV Show. Maybe just limit figs from the 6 films to around 25 figs a year. Maybe a wave for each film, a couple ships and an exclusive or two. We are really pretty close to having every main fig and background fig at a quality that most collectors can live with. But then again, I am looking at it from my standpoint, which is I just cant afford or justify this hobby like I used to. I have totally refocused my collection and sold off more than 50% of it. If it didnt appear in any of the 6 films then I dont bother. If it ended tomorrow can anyone really believe it lasted this long? Not me. I thought 10 years would have been pushing it. It would be sweet if Hasbro just released the best of the best on vintage cards much like the Joe series has done. Looking over my figs, each film has released right around 100 figs each which is still a huge number to sometimes comprehend. Nothing personal to the people that want figures to keep coming out til 2018 but if it dies I am content.
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Jim...just the legacy 6 film sort of deal and not CW or the upcoming TV Show. I expect and know they will market and produce those to the hily
I guess I'm not really that pissed about it either, Brent. I've gotten so many years of enjoyment out of buying plastic that it would be a welcome relief if 2010 was the end. I got my dream figure made, I got most of the updated vintage figures, they went to town on the Cantina. A lot of the EpIV Rebel Pilots finally came out. Really, the only hole I see in the collection is ROTJ Skiff Guards. And that is a small nit to pick IMO.
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My guess is that Clone Wars will carry the line through until the live action tv series starts, but I'm sure we'll still get a bone here and there. Not sure how some collectors out there are going to make it with these new case ratios unless they start buying by the case online or unless HTS stays strong.
I'm just real bitter about how they are treating the classic stuff these days... >:(
These movies are 30 years old - well despite the prequels of course. How many more upgrades/EU/2 second screen time characters can they continue to turn out ??? It has been a fun ride, but I wouldn't mind a break personally. Not even sure I can handle another 8 years of this stuff especially with Hasbro's BEEFY 4th quarter every year. :-\
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I think that as long as the animated series continues, there's going to be a toy line. I think I could just see it being diminished and slowly fading away.
The closest parallel I can draw to what I potentially see happening is the very low numbers of POTF2 CommTech figures compared to the Episode I line. There was very little in terms of new figures in that POTF2 CommTech line, but a very robust Episode I line. And I could see Legacy dwindling down to those kinds of numbers while Clone Wars continues to thrive. But I don't see that happening for at least a couple of years.
As for the economy and how it has affected Hasbro? I don't see them as a company that can really make a sudden correction to suit the needs of the marketplace. They got hit hard by the economic downturn, especially since they planned production numbers for the first couple of waves of TLC BLUE that were not in line with what the market could handle. And now we're dealing with production numbers for figures that were planned during that economic downturn. I think we're likely to see the supply and demand for movie figures even out by the end of 2010's Q1.
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Oh I am sure they will mainly be focusing upon the Clone Wars and upcoming TV show. I am not sure if they will entirely get rid of doing figures from the 6 films though? They can still draw upon a steady groupl of main characters/army builders. I think the days of 30-50 OT/PT figures a year are done though. It seems like most of the OT vehicles or other PT items other than 3 3/4 figures are strictly high-priced exclusives that only an adult could actually buy.
If it is the end or close to it we had a helluva run. Maybe if Lucas ever actually puts the 6 films back out for a 3-D release then we may get back to seeing more OT on the shelves. But I think it's just going to be aimed right at adult collectors until then with mostly main characters/recognizeable army builders etc in case some kids find them appealing. Good thing Yarna and Willrow made it out when they did.
As much as it may be hard to believe kids are growing up with that cartoon show now and really don't pay much attention to the OT if at all. In their eyes it's "old" and if I were a kid I'd proably feel the same way. Heck my kid barely can name who Han and Luke or the Emperor are but he sure as hell knows who Anakin, Cad Bane, and Ahsoka are without any hesitation whatsover. Maybe when he gets older he'll get into dad's old Star Wars stuff but probably nothing the way I or others have on here for 20-30 years or whatever it is.
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I wouldn't mind if if they scaled it back, but killing it would be a mistake.
Maybe this would be good Q&A material if no one's asked yet...
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I think we're starting to see the writing on the wall for a big slow down in the Legacy line, if nothing else. Just out of curiosity, were there a number of answers leaning this way in the recent Q and A's? Just curious what brought this about - not that I can disagree.
I'm in the same boat as the majority of you. As far as the quality of the figures go, I don't know that I've ever enjoyed collecting more. Everything looks amazing, and we're getting figures I never dreamed would be made. That being said, I can also see that the well is sort of drying up for the non-CW stuff. We've gotten more than we probably ever should have as far as character selection, and each new super-background character is just more icing on the cake. I do feel like it is more difficult/stressful than ever to actually collect this stuff though, with the combination of distribution/shipping issues, price increases, and just figuring out where to put all this stuff after 10+ years.
I've advocated for a long time a slow down in the Legacy releases, at least as long as they've got this two line (or three with Legends) thing going. It is just too much, and something (most often Legacy) gets squeezed out at retail. I didn't believe it before, but it does seem like collectors have slowed down a bit or something. Whether it is at HTS or at retail, I never used to see figures from a new wave sit quite as long as they do now. Don't get me wrong, they still sell (or, as in the ROTJ wave, sell out), but some of it (like the TPM) is still available. I see some figures from the TPM wave sitting at retail locally as well, and I remember days where the day a new wave hit the pegs it was usually gone (especially with the one per case stuff).
All of the focus now seems to be on CW, which I guess in a way makes sense. The show is really fun, and kids do seem to be into it. I think there is some truth that many kids don't even know/care about the OT characters anymore, aside from "children of fans". Retail is showing the CW push as well, as I've seen an absolute ton of CW figures lately at retail, and just a trace of Legacy stuff. Hasbro seems to have plans for Legacy stuff at least through 2011, and honestly if they planned it out right, they could probably hit a lot of what needs to be done (or what we want to be done) in the next couple years. I think we'd all like to see the original Kenner line get finished up, and I personally would like to see the remakes of the main characters wrapped up (examples like Bespin Han, Hoth Luke/Leia, etc.), and a few more POTF2 days remakes (Gam. Guard, Ackbar, etc.). It may be that the CW covers that "prequel era", but I can't say there is a ton of stuff left there that I need to see done. This year we got the Obi-Wan's finished out, and I wouldn't mind seeing re-dos of some others (TPM Jar Jar/Anakin, Zam, ROTS Sidious/Palps, etc.), but we're starting to get covered pretty well there too. There will always be more stuff that we'd like to see, but I think we can all admit that we've seen a good run of figures - and a whole lot of incredibly background characters. If the line would end without a Toonbuck Toora or something for instance, I think I'd be ok. I just want all the main characters (and OT characters in particular) to get the "ultimate" versions before the end.
It also seems like any new vehicles from the movies will be done as exclusives, and looking at the vehicles done since the beginning of CW, most of them will be from the OT. That is ok with me I guess, and I understand why. I hope we continue to see some re-dos (can't wait for next year's Snowspeeder), and they get more covered before the line ends (if it does). I could see it getting more focused in the future, with maybe 25-30 figures a year, maybe even just sold through HTS (although Hasbro seems adverse to doing that). I think more and more of us are resorting to online with the Legacy stuff anymore anyways. Just put them on those vintage-esque cardbacks that are rumored for next year, and cater completely the collectors with it now. I honestly think the majority of kids could care less about Rum Sleg or Nien Nunb, but we enjoy the heck out of them.
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I love both the Legacy and CW lines, but there is simply too much product out at one time, and its overwhelming. I'd prefer to have one solid line - and with the CW, Legacy, and Legends all on the same cards - maybe its time Hasbro merged all three. This idea would kill the BAD program, but it might give Legacy figures a longer life if packed with the seemingly most popular figures...CW.
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The end? No, I don't think we're there quite yet. However, I do believe that Hasbro will scale back the number of waves of figures per year until the saga finds new life in the theatres in 3D form (as mentioned earlier). That will create new life for these characters and Hasbro can ramp up production again.
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I'm sure I'll be starting a thread like this in a few years for the CW line...I am in the infinitesimal minority who only collects that stuff and not the Legacy. (no, I'm not 12 either)
But yeah, it does seem like a strategic shift in their marketing plan. I'm sure it will likewise re-focus once the love action show hits. They have to keep the entertainment product fresh, and we all know Eps 7-9 ain't getting made.
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The end? No, I don't think we're there quite yet. However, I do believe that Hasbro will scale back the number of waves of figures per year until the saga finds new life in the theatres in 3D form (as mentioned earlier). That will create new life for these characters and Hasbro can ramp up production again.
Agreed. I just can't see this line on the way out yet. Lower production numbers? Sure. Fewer waves? Perhaps, though we haven't seen that yet have we? As much as there's talk of lower Legacy sales, I bet sales still beat the tar out of anything else in the action figure aisle. If a line can support equal or better sales than movie-backed figures (GI Joe, Transformers), retailers will continue to make space for it. And if retailers still want it, Hasbro will continue to make it.
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I wouldn't mind if if they scaled it back, but killing it would be a mistake.
I agree with scaling back. I couldn't see it ending though. Not yet, anyway. Just too many figures I'd like to see done or remade. Just look at all the wishlists on here of figures that we'd like to see. Even if it meant that Hasbro scaled back on articulation on the background characters, I'd be happy with them. But if they want to end the Legacy line and focus on the cartoon then they won't be getting any of my money.
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As much as there's talk of lower Legacy sales, I bet sales still beat the tar out of anything else in the action figure aisle. If a line can support equal or better sales than movie-backed figures (GI Joe, Transformers), retailers will continue to make space for it. And if retailers still want it, Hasbro will continue to make it.
I suspect it may be the case in the MN region, but I know around here and in most stores I've been in through the US, they ain't beating the tar out of much of anything, certainly not based on the minimal space on planograms I've seen. TRU is holding steady with space dedicated to it, but to my dismay I'd agree with Hasbro's contention about CW vs. Legacy - that's the way TRU plays it too. And in our Walmarts, Star Wars doesn't lay claim to more space than anything really, save maybe Marvel Legends. Everything else supported by a TV show takes up more space than it does. 8 pegs max; 4 high, 2 columns, that's it.
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I am with JesseVader08 & Darth Vlad. Let's not be too chicken little right now. It sounds like quite the contrary given some of the Q&A answers that is talking about a New Hope wave being the first of 2011 and if the Dewback sells more sets like that will be on the way. Did they have a rough year? Sure but so did everyone else you are already seeing them adjust with case assortments and keep a closer eye on the offerings. This is playing into their BP strategy and smaller runs on certain offerings, it's hunkering down mode for them.
There is just too much money in this to let it die. Another Toy company would jump all over this, Hasbro is smart they will be more conservative for awhile until the economy picks up and a new event comes their way. While sales may have dropped off due to the many factors we talked about over and over it's not the end. As others have said scaling back for a period is the way they will go. The line has seen this before post EP1 and EP2. You will see a event wrapped around SW in high def remastered DVD's with all the blue ray 3d **** embedded in them and you will get another OTC/SE kinda marketing campaign. The Live action show will ensure you still see new realistic SW toys. Mostly everything is sucking so it's not just a SW problem keep that in mind.
Any store you go to stuff is selling, BAD is usually cleaned out. I do not even find Yarna anymore. As JJ mentioned SW does outsell every action figure line out there. I have access to NPD data so I see whats selling and whats not. CW is outselling Legacy but Legacy is beating the snot out of Joe, Marvel, Ben 10, etc.
Keep your heads up guys and where possible you wallets open to continue to support the line so we can enjoy it for years to come. There is still a lot of stuff I want before "the end" so the other thread is a fun what if I may partake in for ***** and giggles.
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I dont think its realistic for the Legacy line to end, and the CW line to thrive by itself, because there is a large segment of collectors that buy all the CW figures too - but scaling back is necessary, and in my case - welcome. I want Legacy and CW figures alike, but I'm currently hunting for 3 waves of figures that have all been released in the past couple of weeks, not to mention countless retailer exclusives - who has the time or money to do it all at once? I prefer this to be a hobby, not a job.
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from Galactic Hunter's QNA this week:
With Star Wars having a huge collector following, we know that the past year has presented challenges in keeping up with the line. Similarly, the line that we showed at Comic-Con has been in development since the end of 2007/beginning of 2008, and long-lead projects and commitments are difficult to change, especially when the efforts are exceptionally good as they have been this year. Right now, everything shown should make it to retail in the U.S. In some of the more collector-targeted lines, like Legacy/Droid Factory basic figures and Comic Packs, some of the waves may not be out until Spring 2010, assuming that the forecasted quantities move through and that we do not see further collector slowdown. If that happens, we'll do our best to see that they do get to retail somehow. It is our intention, going forward, to pull back on the breadth and depth of the offering, somewhat. For instance, we have been working to scale back some on the number of new/refresh figures in the Legacy basic figure lineup (the goal is approximately 40-45 new/refresh figures/year for the basic figure line). We are also re-examining the number of collector-targeted offerings and exclusives to pare down to the scope of the line for the time being.
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That's nothing to cry about IMO. Between the basic line, the vehicle pack ins, the 2-packs, the comic packs, the battle packs, the exclusives... there's just too much product over too short a period of time. It's difficult to keep up. I'd rather they cut it back by 25% or whatever they're thinking. It'll be easier on lots of us, and it'll probably mean more collectors don't have such stretched collecting budgets... meaning people might not skip over as many items.
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I was more referring to the end of comic packs but in regards to basic figures I think it sucks because too many slots will go to prequels. Part of the slowdown is truly Hasbro's fault. The uneven shipping in huge chunks turned off a lot of collectors. I had no problem with the offering, just the spacing/timing of it. I hate seeing it cut back for animated stuff.
(We still have to get together Rob, PM me and let me know your schedule. I still want that X-Wing.)
Back to the topic For all the chicken little I think G.I.Joe will die before Legacy ever does. "The Pursuit of Cobra" will be more like the "Pursuit to get to Retail'.
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It's gotta end eventually, but we're probably a ways off. Even the most successful movie tie-in lines don't last as long as one packaging line look does for Star Wars. Seriously, aside from tiny little sad lines of 2 figure a year from NECA or another company, nothing is as huge as this line, nor will anything ever come close to this level of success for quite some time. If ever, given the toy business today.
If history is any indication, the line is going to end as a surprise-- the last series will be hard to get, and future series will just not get made. The original TMNT line had a year or two of showings at Toy Fair where a chunk of product never got made before going away, and when it went, it was pretty quick. Playmates' original Star Trek range ended with increasingly goofy limited editions and exclusives, with the final batches being Target exclusive figures probably culled from the main line. Or Indiana Jones... just kinda up and ended there, but the writing was clearly on the wall. Which, for Star Wars, it is not. Show me another line with this much new stuff every year that isn't the same body with a new head on it (excepting, of course, the clones.)
Comic Packs have already been pared way back-- the Dark Empire Luke/Palpatine and Republic Quinlan/Faie set were very late 2008 entries. In 2009, we have been given exactly 6 non-exclusive packs, 3 of which just hit about a month ago. It's already on the way out the door, but it's interesting to note that Wal-Mart has had 3 already this year and 3 more are due any time now. On the whole, anything but basic figures tends to come and go in fairly short order, the fact that we got about 3+ years of comic packs is pretty gosh darned great and certainly bolstered the expanded universe toy lineup.
There's still plenty of money to squeeze out of us, so it's not going away. Fans may remember 2004 as a particularly slow year for new basic figures, between Saga and non-Vintage OTC, only 28 new figures were made, plus a couple of POTF2 repaints. By comparison 2003 had 45 basic numbered figures (the last 2002 figures hit early 2003), and 2002 had 54 if you count the Rebel Trooper variant. Things come and go, go up and down. Don't forget, Wal-Mart virtually dropped the entire line save for basic and deluxe figures around the end of 2003 during the Clone Wars push, it was really tough to find some of these items for a while. Things have been absolutely nuts since 2005, and frankly, I'm just fine with a year that doesn't have $600+ worth of exclusives in Q4 before the basic line even comes into consideration.
40-45 "new/refresh" (assuming "refresh" is slang for "new accessories/slight retools/repaints") is totally reasonable to me. We got 44 in 2008. We got 35 so far in 2009, with another 22 or so likely before the end of the year. I'm sure there will always be a couple of token Cantina aliens and Jabba's Palace aliens each year, just to keep us interested, alongside the token Han/Luke/Anakin refreshes. If Hasbro and Toys "R" Us can successfully sell a $50 TIE Interceptor this holiday season, seriously, what do we have to worry about?
When Wal-Mart drops the basic movie-themed figure line (which probably won't be "Legacy" or "Build-a-droid" forever anyway), that's when I'll expect the line to die in 6-12 months.
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I was more referring to the end of comic packs but in regards to basic figures I think it sucks because too many slots will go to prequels. Part of the slowdown is truly Hasbro's fault. The uneven shipping in huge chunks turned off a lot of collectors. I had no problem with the offering, just the spacing/timing of it. I hate seeing it cut back for animated stuff.
(We still have to get together Rob, PM me and let me know your schedule. I still want that X-Wing.)
I'll be in touch. :)
As for the comic packs... personally I'm not terribly into EU and would be fine if the product was much more film-centric. Sorry for everyone who's into that stuff though.
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I don't think we're near the end yet. As Adam said, it will end eventually, but I don't think we're that close. Only fools give up at the first sign of trouble. Sure, Hasbro might have hit a snag with the movie line, but that doesn't mean the line is dead. You restructure accordingly. There's a fan base out there, it's just a matter of finding new ways to reach it.
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I think the shipping delays/inconsistencies hurt things a lot too, as people have mentioned. It is really tough to keep up when you're buying the majority of product in the last four months of the year or so. Sure, you could/should save up preparing for that, but how many of us really do that - even if we should? I think scaling back could be a good thing for the line at this point. I don't want to see it go away either, and don't really think it will anytime soon, but if we averaged 40 new basic figures a year, I'd be fine with that.
Its funny, with all of the talk of the CW push, I think we actually get more basic carded Legacy figures in a year than CW (not counting Obi/Ani repacks and all of that). I think Hasbro has done a pretty nice job with the handling of the CW line. I'm not positive on numbers, but I think there are around 30-35 "new" CW figures in a year (like this year). We see repacks of Obi-Wan, Anakin, Rex, etc. - but if a kiddo/collector just wanted the "new guys" it wouldn't be impossible to keep up. Plus, if you look at how many brand-new vehicles the line has seen since the launch in 2008, it is pretty impressive. Heck, there have probably been more new vehicles for CW than for all of the prequels combined.
Slowing down the pack, shipping them more consistently throughout the year, and not having $600 in exclusives to track down in the last quarter of the year would help things a lot. And, like others have said, I think when Star Wars is released on Blu-Ray or in theaters in 3D, we'll see another fairly significant movie push. I used to have a problem with the OT getting left behind in recent years in the Legacy line, but this year's offerings have made up for that a bit. We're getting two ANH waves, two ESB waves, and a ROTJ wave this year alone, so that's been nice. If anything, it seems like - aside from ROTS - the prequels are getting forgotten more and more as those characters are being covered in the CW line. Anyways, like others said, I think the SW line (even non CW) is still doing pretty well when compared to other similar lines at retail.
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I don't think we have to worry about Legacy dying for at least a few more years. But I do think next year we're gonna start seeing fewer waves and probably fewer new figures in them. And I'm totally fine with that. I'm happy with what we've gotten. I think if they could get even half of what I really really want made in the next few years and then wrap things up, I'd be pretty happy with it.
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from Galactic Hunter's QNA this week:
With Star Wars having a huge collector following, we know that the past year has presented challenges in keeping up with the line. Similarly, the line that we showed at Comic-Con has been in development since the end of 2007/beginning of 2008, and long-lead projects and commitments are difficult to change, especially when the efforts are exceptionally good as they have been this year. Right now, everything shown should make it to retail in the U.S. In some of the more collector-targeted lines, like Legacy/Droid Factory basic figures and Comic Packs, some of the waves may not be out until Spring 2010, assuming that the forecasted quantities move through and that we do not see further collector slowdown. If that happens, we'll do our best to see that they do get to retail somehow. It is our intention, going forward, to pull back on the breadth and depth of the offering, somewhat. For instance, we have been working to scale back some on the number of new/refresh figures in the Legacy basic figure lineup (the goal is approximately 40-45 new/refresh figures/year for the basic figure line). We are also re-examining the number of collector-targeted offerings and exclusives to pare down to the scope of the line for the time being.
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I think this is something that we should've expected for some time. A scaling back of the line. Things have been ratcheting up to something of a fever pitch for some time. We saw some downturns in the line between Episodes I & II, and then between Episodes II & III. But ever since Episode III things have been coming out at an incredible pace.
The numbers Hasbro cited in that response to GH for the Basic Figure line are more in line with what we saw in 2004 with the OTC line. That year we had 38 basic figures plus the vintage line. And there was also no Clone Wars line like we have now. And IIRC, a lot of people were fans of the OTC line.
Compare that with 2009's TLC RED line. That's 50 basic figures in the space of 6 months! And add to that another 18 Saga Legends figures. Oh, and there's another 40 Clone Wars figures in the CW RED line, too. That's over 100 different carded figures being offered in the space of 6 months. That is just an insane release schedule, and I think we should not be surprised that Hasbro is having issues. And this was just with the red packaging. I didn't even account for the blue packaging which would bring the numbers to an even more astounding total.
So what could be more manageable? Here's what I see happening (potentially).
MOVIE BASIC FIGURE LINE - 40 figures
-32 new figures
-8 reissue core characters
COMIC 2-PACKS - 3 general release waves & 1 exclusive
-3 x comic packs / wave x 4 total waves = 24 figures
EXCLUSIVE 2-PACKS
Target - 1 wave = 12 figures
WalMart - 1 wave = 10/12 figures
Add to that a comparable Clone Wars line. A Clone Wars line that still has vehicles and deluxe items that work across both the movie realistic and animated lines. And I think you still wind up with a very respectable toy line. One that has had staying power over 15+ years and is still the #1 boys toys license.
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I have mixed feelings about the future of the comic packs - we've received some great figures over the past few years, but some of the upcoming choices are both boring and some leave collectors wondering - who are these characters?
The current wave of comic packs (Lumiya, etc) seem to be doing great and are actually hard to find, I'm sure the bad distribution has some fault in that though. The upcoming comic packs for the rest of 2009 and into 2010 arent really that interesting though, and I dont think any of the characters are truly in high demand. None of them seem to have the buzz that characters like Quinlan Vos had.
At this rate, with the EU expanding in a rather out of control fashion, maybe collectors cant keep up with comic packs either...
Maybe Hasbro needs to do a 'state of collecting' address lol.
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Scott, not sure if you are talking just the Legacy line or figs from the 6 films in general. I would honestly be quite content with Hasbro refocussing mainly on the Clone Wars and upcoming TV Show. Maybe just limit figs from the 6 films to around 25 figs a year. Maybe a wave for each film, a couple ships and an exclusive or two. We are really pretty close to having every main fig and background fig at a quality that most collectors can live with. But then again, I am looking at it from my standpoint, which is I just cant afford or justify this hobby like I used to. I have totally refocused my collection and sold off more than 50% of it. If it didnt appear in any of the 6 films then I dont bother. If it ended tomorrow can anyone really believe it lasted this long? Not me. I thought 10 years would have been pushing it. It would be sweet if Hasbro just released the best of the best on vintage cards much like the Joe series has done. Looking over my figs, each film has released right around 100 figs each which is still a huge number to sometimes comprehend. Nothing personal to the people that want figures to keep coming out til 2018 but if it dies I am content.
I totally agree. Tone down the Legacy line for collectors to fill gaps. If there must be a Legends line, which I totally hate, make that an anvenue to release your Vaders, Lukes and R2's. Concentrate on CW and scale back 90% on EU figures. Thats what I'd do.
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I have to say that I'm not terribly disappointed that the film-based stuff is going to be eased back; I've been advocating for the last four years that Hasbro is doing way too many new figures in a year with no film support, and I think it's finally caught up with them. Clone Wars is hot right now, and in my opinion, it deserves to have the focus for a little while. I'm not advocating the "end of the line" or anything, but there is simply too much stuff, in too short a period of time, in too short supply for things to continue at this current rate.
I agree with Nick to an extent on what his preferred layout would be, although the only things I would continue in a realistic style would be the basic action figures and the vehicles. That would be it:
Basic Figures: One wave per film, of 6 to 8 new figures, per year (36-40 new figures per year, total). If you're going to do recarded older figures, confine them to 2 figures per film, for a grand total of 52 figures for the entire 12-month span of the line (40 new, 12 repack)
Vehicles: Each store gets an exclusive in the spring, and an exclusive in the winter for the holiday shopping season. No more of this Target getting 12 exclusives all at once nonsense, or Wal-Mart getting 10 exclusives and not stocking them in some areas. All retailers would be required to sell their exclusives online as part of the deal.
No more Comic Packs, no more Evolutions, no more Battle Packs, no film-based deluxe lineup, no Galactic Heroes, no SW Transformers, and definitely no more Saga Legends. If you're recarding older figures in the regular TLC assortment, there is absolutely no point whatsoever to have a third line of recards on the pegs, taking away shelf space from new product. And before the "But they're a different SKU" crowd chimes in, I repeat my mantra once more: Retailers DON'T CARE about the three SKUs. To them, if there are Star Wars figures on the pegs, that's all that matters. Star Wars is Star Wars is Star Wars to them, period.
Clone Wars can dominate the pegs and shelf space with the basic figures, deluxe mini-rig line, and vehicle assortment, as it currently does. This way, the big seller (according to Hasbro) has the majority of the focus, although the people who have kept Hasbro in the SW business for the last 14 years still have their regular spot just like we always have.
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I think it will slow down but i cannot see it ending before 2018. On a vaguely related note, very disapointed to know there won't be a New Hope wave next year.
Also me being a UK resident ,nowadays if i'm shopping for droids-Soto speak-it has to be online :(
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I have to say that I'm not terribly disappointed that the film-based stuff is going to be eased back; I've been advocating for the last four years that Hasbro is doing way too many new figures in a year with no film support, and I think it's finally caught up with them. Clone Wars is hot right now, and in my opinion, it deserves to have the focus for a little while. I'm not advocating the "end of the line" or anything, but there is simply too much stuff, in too short a period of time, in too short supply for things to continue at this current rate.
No more Comic Packs, no more Evolutions, no more Battle Packs, no film-based deluxe lineup, no Galactic Heroes, no SW Transformers, and definitely no more Saga Legends. If you're recarding older figures in the regular TLC assortment, there is absolutely no point whatsoever to have a third line of recards on the pegs, taking away shelf space from new product. And before the "But they're a different SKU" crowd chimes in, I repeat my mantra once more: Retailers DON'T CARE about the three SKUs. To them, if there are Star Wars figures on the pegs, that's all that matters. Star Wars is Star Wars is Star Wars to them, period.
This was probably one of the best posts in the thread. Way to go DP! Clone Wars should have the focus, both on shelves and from the designers at Hasbro. It can be seen that Hasbro is having trouble keeping up with the variety of characters and demand for toys produced by the show. In my area at least, CW figures sell pretty quickly, especially clones and Jedi.
As for slimming down the offerings, I'm all for Comic Packs getting a break. The Deluxe line covers that pricepoint (Perhaps lower it to $13) and seems to be more appealing for kids, while making some new vehicles and army builders available to collectors. However, I think the Battle Packs should stay on the shelves. I think that assortment is one of the best. Fold the stores exclusives in with the mainline sets and Hasbro would have a pretty solid offering. Bring the price back to $20 per set and it would be golden. I feel the BP assortment hits the same sweet spot that the $20 vehicles get and offer a slot for some decent expansion of the line (while keeping older, SL type figures in circulation)
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This was probably one of the best posts in the thread. Way to go DP! Clone Wars should have the focus, both on shelves and from the designers at Hasbro. It can be seen that Hasbro is having trouble keeping up with the variety of characters and demand for toys produced by the show. In my area at least, CW figures sell pretty quickly, especially clones and Jedi.
It definitely would've saved me some money! I have yet to purchase anything Clone Wars.
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Sounds good to me too. I am starved for new CW merch. If a re-focus allows them to make some $$$ that can be re-invested in other lines, so much the better.
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I bet the plan is to kill the Legacy Collection so they can start over with an all-new OT animated line so all of you Clone Wars hold-outs finally have to switch over to buying animated figures... (http://www.jedidefender.com/jsmentek/freakout.gif)
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Ok I've been out of the loop the past few weeks.... they're planning to end the basic line? Or was it just rumored based off of grim responses from the last Q&A's? My half-assed research isn't getting me any answers. :P
If so, I welcome the break. Like everyone else, I'm sick of this "spend $500 on a bunch of stuff then go 6 months without anything new" plan Hasbro likes to use now. There's way too much product out there, so either offer a few waves a year or just take an 18 month hiatus or something.
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Big topic this weekend, and I've been thinking about it too...
-Is this the beginning of the end? It sure feels like it, but I think (like others) we'll see some kind of continuation of things, at least in a diminished capacity. I think the movie line's taken a hit, and I think a lot of the reason is price (does the CW line sell? Sure, but it's also got media supporting it... $8 figures sell better to whiney kids than adults who start rethinking what they're buying).
Seeing as how the adults are the supporters of the Legacy line, especially right now, I think the jacked up prices have had a deeper impact than most maybe expected, but that's just my perspective on it.
-Will I be happy if it all ended? Not really... I have a few figures I wanted, and have wanted for years, and they're not done. Namely rebels (SA FLeet and Endor in particular... Hasbro's hinted at both happening, so who knows). Those are the two keys I want the most... If they were done, I'd probably be more content seeing things just stop, rather than a slowdown.
Those are just my takes... With those two figures done, I'd be much more "content" with the line's demise, actually. I'd probably start looking a lot more at customizing at that point. I'd sure as hell save a lot of cash, I know that much... though I'd probably turn it into a new hobby, or into customizing junk (though I can usually get that stuff cheap at least).
I'm trying not to dwell on it at the moment, honestly. It's not a make or break me thing in life, but I'll be annoyed I think if they stopped short of those last two army builders getting their due from the classic line. I don't really NEED the vintage figures updated because I figure I'd work on them myself at some point, but I also see the argument there for the guys wishing they would be. I can't blame anyone on that.
Right now I cannot find those last comic packs. I cannot find the Gunship's gonad battlepacks (I wanted 2, but finding 1 is impossible). I also can find only remnants of the last 2 waves of basic figures save for the Mechano-Holo Sidious.
What I can find... LOTS of old Legacy repacks, LOTS of Legends (to the point they all make my stomach turn anymore, haha), and LOTS of Clone Wars pegwarmers from past waves (and a couple from the more current waves).
Legacy on the new style cards are non-existant here though.
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no Galactic Heroes
Them's fightin' words. >:( ;)
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After reading through some of the various Q and A's over the weekend, I can see more where this is coming from. It sounds like Legacy is a no show (at least for now) in Canada and the U.K., and Hasbro is continuing to drive home the point that it is still a slow seller in the U.S. They're also starting with the comments of not knowing when the upcoming waves will even make it to retail. They can site the slow selling, but honestly (at least here) it is just the fact that retailers don't differentiate between the three lines. There isn't room for new Legacy at retail here because the entire section is filled up with CW (and some Legends). Sure, there were pegwarmers earlier this year, but those are mostly gone now too.
Like others, I don't want to see it end, but definitely wouldn't mind it slowing down. It is just too much to keep up with anymore, particularly towards the end of the year (alongside Christmas shopping and all of that). I sort of prefer the set-up that has been mentioned already:
-6 waves of 6 figures each or so, around 36 figures per year (for TLC)
-Get rid of the "Legends" line, and incorporate them into the main line, with smart figure choices
-With the re-released figures, use the VOTC/VTSC/Evolutions/SA versions, and basically stick to the main characters and troops. We could probably come up with a pretty good list here on the forums that would sell to kids and collectors on a regular basis.
Aside from the figures, I sort of like getting 1-2 all-new redone OT vehicles each year too. Even if they are exclusives, it is nice to get those 30 year old ships updated. I feel like the prequel vehicles are largely covered with the CW line, so I prefer an OT focus here. We've already got a great Falcon, the upcoming AT-ST, and a Snowspeeder on the way next year - along with the updates to the various TIEs lately. If we do indeed get that "BMF" Slave 1 next year, they would be further on their way to getting the main ones out there again. We could see some updates to the OT fighters (Y-Wing, possibly X-Wing), and then maybe a BMF AT-AT down the road and we'd probably be well covered. Things like the Sandcrawler aren't going to get updated, and the Imp. Shuttle is probably good enough as well (and likely not "aggressive" enough). Same thing with the beasts, we've gotten a nice new Rancor and upcoming Dewback, cover 1-2 more of those each year and we'd be done quickly.
I'd also like to see the battle packs stay for both, maybe with more CW ones than TLC. It is nice in the way of gifts or even for new collectors, particularly if they use quality figures. Although I'd feel for the big EU fans, I'd be ok if the comic packs wrapped up too. I've been buying less of them personally, and they really seem to be collecting dust in our area for the most part. I'd like to see Galactic Heroes stay as well, but other than that they could ditch any of the "other" non-basic figure related lines as far as I'm concerned.
Otherwise, as everyone has mentioned, I'm fine with CW getting the bulk of the attention. It really makes sense, and I think the line itself is set up pretty well. With a manageable number of figures and some really great vehicles, it reminds me of what the vintage line was to our age group. Lots of play value, and good fun. The vehicles (and "deluxe" assortment) cross-over with the realistic style, which is a plus too. I don't necessarily want the movie stuff to stop though, but a nice slow down (and consistent release schedule) would help a lot. If you have six waves, and release them every other month, you'd be all set. The exclusives are a little out of control lately too. Maybe have each store get one vehicle and one non-vehicle exclusive each holiday season, and pepper anything else out throughout the year.
Interesting topic, I've really enjoyed reading everyone's viewpoints on it. It seems like a lot of us are in agreement on a lot of things, and maybe it shows how much we've gotten in this line that so many of us are ready for a slow down or break. I honestly would be happy if we just got the rest of the "main" characters from the OT updated, the last few troopers that Jesse mentioned, and a few more POTF2 upgrades and vintage line leftovers. I'm fairly happy with the prequel lineups at this point, just wanting mainly a few updates (Zam Wessel, AOTC C-3PO, Jar Jar, etc.), and anything else as far as background characters is gravy.
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Heres exactly what Hasbro said in a Q&A question:
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2) Is something BAD happening? It would seem that in both the UK and Canada the Legacy Collection of Build a Droid (BAD) figures have been dropped by retailers for the rest of this year and Hasbro UK and Hasbro Canada respectively are not offering these products to retailers. Please tell us this BAD decision is not true? If it is, is there anything we can do to get the core line into retailers in the UK and Canada?
It is true that the collector business has been severely impacted since last Fall, not just in the U.S. but in the U.K. and Canada as well. We don't have an answer right now on which assortments may be missing or dropped in the U.K. For Canada, we can confirm that only a couple of the new red/white Legacy/Droid Factory assortments will make it to retail this Fall. We are working to find our footing for assortment releases; changes that occurred last Fall can really present problems if they depend on collectors to pull them through (as the Legacy/Droid Factory line does) and inventory at retail remains too long. In some cases, if the assortments don't move off shelf, we can't commit to bringing in the next ones, or else they will get bottled and backed up. We're working as hard as we can to understand the problem and correct it, but it takes time.
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I just hope Hasbro solves this issue before the same thing starts to happen in the US - with lackluster distribution of the Legacy collection, hopefully they can mend the system before waves of figures never make it to retail. My hope is that if distribution is going to remain slow and the Legacy collection wont be as widely available in the US, they should push waves back, and give us less each year, but ship them in numbers high enough to meet the current demand.
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Isn't it a little weird that we're talking about slow sales in the Legacy line when there has been almost no new product for what... 6-8 months? I mean... the Hoth wave barely showed up, the Episode II wave was non-existent.
I'm itching to buy new figures, but haven't been able to find any in forever.
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True enough. New product has been scant at best for the most of us it seems.
A little off topic but I wanted to mention this from this week's QnA session. It's a question posed by Sandtroopers.
3) Is the going back to the glued on bubble an attempt to stop the slash and returns that have hampered the lines since the ROTS series? If so, why did it take so long to go back to the glued on bubble?
Returns have not been a big problem for the lines that have had the taped blisters, at least any more than heat-sealed blisters have been. Where there is a will, unfortunately, there is always a way with unscrupulous collectors to try and juke the system. Instead, it's a cost-savings measure compared to the taped blisters. The taped blisters, while great for giving the figures a lot of room to be posed out with their accessories in-pack, cost more and was a needed concession as we drew up the new line. It's possible that we'll return to the taped in a future line.
Note the bolded yellow text. So they're blaming collectors? Okay no doubt there may be some collectors doing this, but every instance? I'd guess there was a large share of scalpers who are doing this. I'm just a bit put off by Hasbro's comments.
Looking at some of the questions coming from the different sites lately, we're not letting up on them too much and maybe they were slightly lashing out at us there. However, we're the consumer. If we are voicing our discord with them for whatever reason, I think it would be better served to just listen to what we're asking, rather than make an off-handed remark about collectors.
Honestly, if the SW line were to end this year, while there are a few figs I'd have like to have seen made, I wouldn't be too terribly disappointed.
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So they're blaming collectors?
No they're blaming the unscrupulous ones, they're not saying all collectors are unscrupulous.
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Heres exactly what Hasbro said in a Q&A question:
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2) Is something BAD happening? It would seem that in both the UK and Canada the Legacy Collection of Build a Droid (BAD) figures have been dropped by retailers for the rest of this year and Hasbro UK and Hasbro Canada respectively are not offering these products to retailers. Please tell us this BAD decision is not true? If it is, is there anything we can do to get the core line into retailers in the UK and Canada?
It is true that the collector business has been severely impacted since last Fall, not just in the U.S. but in the U.K. and Canada as well. We don't have an answer right now on which assortments may be missing or dropped in the U.K. For Canada, we can confirm that only a couple of the new red/white Legacy/Droid Factory assortments will make it to retail this Fall. We are working to find our footing for assortment releases; changes that occurred last Fall can really present problems if they depend on collectors to pull them through (as the Legacy/Droid Factory line does) and inventory at retail remains too long. In some cases, if the assortments don't move off shelf, we can't commit to bringing in the next ones, or else they will get bottled and backed up. We're working as hard as we can to understand the problem and correct it, but it takes time.
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What Hasbro neglected to say openly is they severely screwed the distribution on this in Canada, much worse than they did in the US. At my local Walmart, where figures move pretty well overall, they are still putting out brand spanking new boxes labelled from last year with "do not put on shelves prior to July 27, 2008" or whatever the shelf date was for the very first wave. I'm still seeing Yarna, absolutely fresh, from the first run of figures, going onto the pegs (thankfully and amazingly it is still oddly disappearing but I believe that to have something to do with ritual sacrifice, an entirely separate issue). It's 16 freaking months later? That's collectors fault in exactly what way? I dutifully bought the wave within a week of it's release and I'm now supposed to go back and buy it again? C'mon, the ESB wave was never released here at all. The poor sales of Legacy in Canada may have been impacted from the economy, but I'll tell you openly the distribution BY HASBRO was the bigger issue. And it is far from the first time they've screwed it up badly in Canada too, so it can't all be the "economy" and recession. They blew it.
Contrast that to Clone Wars that has a television series supporting it and actually has new figures out there. Gee, I can't possibly imagine why they're selling better.
With respect to the US I think the cost increase has hammered the collector market. It was one thing deciding between a latte and a new cardback version of a figure you already had. At twice the cost now it has become completely unpalatable to purchase the figure on a new cardback. The price differential between the US and Canada is now negligible whereas we used to pay pretty much double (or more) than you folks. It used to be beneficial to me to get figures from US friends and with the shipping and customs fees added in they were still significantly cheaper. No longer. Our price has been stable around $9.99 since POTJ (though TRU had early POTJ waves at $14.99 :o). So it isn't only the cost per barrel of oil as our prices remain (knock on wood) the same while yours have gone up.
I absolutely think scaling back is a good idea on their part. I'm just dismayed at the lousy distribution and what appears as, though probably isn't, an abandonment of the core of their market for a long time.
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Hmmm... this is a complex topic really, and I'm sure Hasbro has a sensible reason for handling the lines the way they have the past year or two. It's about what can they take advantage of now, and still look toward the future with...
So, it makes perfect sense for them to focus on the Clone Wars right now. It would be a mistake not to, however what aggravates me is when they claim that collectors aren't supporting the movie figures. That's simply not the case from what I can telll. Hasbro seems to just use that as reasoning for their moves. I wish they'd just be straight up and state that the Legacy line isn't as profitable of a line for them right now (more is invested in new tooling, sculpting and B.A.D. parts) as compared to Legends repacks and less involved CW sculpting.
I think we'll see the regular figures throughout the life of the line, but if they do ever ditch the realistic movie line though, I'm probably out of this hobby.
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Great points Chewie. I hate the idea of less movie related stuff, but in a crappy economy you push what you have to. But just like you said, don't blame us. I won't pay $8.24 for an invisible figure. Sorry Hasbro, just can't do it. I can't buy stuff that's not there.
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I know the Legacy & Legends lines are offered separately to retailers. Does anyone know if retailers have to pay a different amount per figure for each of the lines?
My guess for what happens is when the Droid Factory lines dies next year, they combine the Legacy/Legends and ship fewer new figures with older popular repacks, while keeping the CW line separate.
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I believe Hasbro is preferring the performance of the Legends line over Legacy due to cost issues. Basically, the new sculpts for the Legacy line cost lots of money to produce. Remember, the Legends are all repacks so not money is now going into sculting for these figures. Its purely profit when you have a line based on figures with exisiting sculpts. The Legacy line is, reportedly, not selling so well, so perhaps Hasbro thinks that the better business is with the Legends line and the cutting back on the Legacy line. Supposedly, the Clone Wars line is heading the sales so thats where they want to invest their money.
Besides, when the live action show starts, I doubt if they have 3 lines going at once. Take a look:
CW line-Hot with kids; supported by TV.
Live action show- New SW on TV; new characters. Realistic figures.
Legends-Purely profit when you have a line based on best selling and most wanted figures and all exisiting sculpts.
or
Legacy-main characters done ove and over again. Collector oriented. Never-before-done characters don't sell well.
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Legacy-main characters done ove and over again. Collector oriented. Never-before-done characters don't sell well.
Gotta agree with you here ... take Leesnub Sirlin/Pink Cantina chick ??? Great figure, but, honestly, that doesn't look like it'll fly off shelves. I'm tired of Hasbro's endless inclusion of Saesee Tiin into the SL line ... but these problems can be SOLVED. There can be newer inclusions in that line - Hasbro also needs to realize that the TCW line is mainly for kids, and collectors deserve some great figures for the collector-oriented lines - it needs to stop throwing around that "'The Saga Legends line is meant to be a compliment to the The Clone Wars line'" BS. Because, quite frankly, if that were true, and kids really are buying, then Saesee Tiin and Plo Koon wouldn't be constantly on the shelves. And collectors are also saying how that upcoming EU wave contains mostly disappointing figure sculpts. Even though it might, there's no way everyone will pass on K'Khruk and Shaak Ti. If anything, Eu waves bring the most diverse figure choices. Just thought I'd express my opinion. :-X
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I really do hope the doom saying turns out to be just us and we continue to get realistically styled characters for years to come. I do not oppose a cut back however, as a new wave a month does seem a bit excessive. If the line will soon end, well, it had a fantastic run, and we got loads of stuff I never thought we'd see. My only dissapointment will be the lack of Bom Vimdin, as he's the last Cantina alien I really see as nessesary anymore.
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I know the Legacy & Legends lines are offered separately to retailers. Does anyone know if retailers have to pay a different amount per figure for each of the lines?
My guess for what happens is when the Droid Factory lines dies next year, they combine the Legacy/Legends and ship fewer new figures with older popular repacks, while keeping the CW line separate.
Its a good alternative to combine Legacy and Legends and give us less new figures each year. Ideally, once the BAD program is over, and droid parts are no longer packed with Legacy figures, Hasbro could give us 4 new figures in each wave, just like the CW line is doing now, pack 2 of each new figure per case, and add 4 legends figures to each case, which would give us a good amount on the pegs without clogging them. The days of 8 new Legacy figures in a wave has to end.
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I wouldn't mind seeing some version of that done (as far as combining Legacy/Legends). If you take the build-a-droid part out of the equation (which it sounds like it is coming to an end anyway), and maybe put them on some vintage-like cardbacks (complete with the coffin style blister). Then you wouldn't "have" to buy the repacked figures. Some people might not like only getting four "new" figures in a wave, but if they are going to scale things back, it might be a good way to do it. Again, as long as they are smart about the repacked figures. Just as a couple examples:
A New Hope Wave
Bom Vimdin
SA Rebel Fleet Trooper
Ponda Baba (Resculpt)
Grand Moff Tarkin (Resculpt)
VOTC Han Solo (Repack)
VOTC/Tantive IV Stormtrooper (Repack)
You could also sub in characters like Early Bird Chewbacca, VOTC Leia (although that is less likely), VTSC X-Wing Pilot Luke Skywalker, VOTC/Evolutions Vader, TLC Obi-Wan, or R2-D2
Empire Strikes Back Wave
Bespin Han Solo (Resculpt)
Hoth Rebel Soldier (Echo Base)
Torryn Farr
Dak Ralter
VTSC Snowtrooper (Repack)
VTSC Luke Skywalker - Bespin (Repack)
Again, you could sub in a number of figures (Boba Fett, Lando, Vader, Yoda, etc.) - but I'm guessing Hasbro would want to stick with the "big sellers", and that doesn't include Lando. Also, I'd rather see the resculpts of Hoth Luke and Leia here, but I'm trying to spread out the "big guns", and I doubt we'd see two females in one wave. This would cover a minor, fan requested figure (Farr), a big hitter (Han), and a new army builder (Echo Base Trooper). You could have another army builder (Snowtrooper) that is likely to sell, and then another main character (Luke). If we were using a "4 new, 2 repack" formula that was mentioned earlier, I wouldn't mind seeing waves similar to these.
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When BAD ends and invariably it will, the cost of figs must come down by at least $1. That was one reason for the price increase per figure. I think people are forgetting that.
Then again I can still see the gripe if people aren't collecting every figure. They end up with parts they don't want or need, either have to try and trade or sell them off or throw them away.
Honestly, while BAD was a nice experiment, I don't see there being any more movie Astromechs or protocol droids needed. Some of the other droids have been very obscure. Rreally I could have cared less for L8-L9. Yes, I know some people wanted it, but it was in what one or two Clone Wars shows and that was from the one a few years ago. (BTW, I hope the people that wanted L8-L aren't the same people criticizing the animated line for episode specific figures because they are being quite hypocritical if they are.) Anyway, what I'm trying to say is we don't need BAD anymore. We need a price break. If figs were $1 less I'm sure that would help quell some frustration by we collectors. As far as unproduced droids, that is what Fan suggestions/contests are for. We got several droids from WM last year that really made no sense, most never being seen before.
Those were collector driven sets that didn't meet expectations. Why? Not price as they were actually a good deal. Nope, it was either that they were too readily available and people waited for them to clearance (and they did in many places) or that the droids and some of the characters included weren't wanted.
Sure, I'd rather see more accessories, but then again, if you've been collecting for years (as most of us have), we have more than enough accessories than we need. If it's scene specific parts you're talking about then those are best served to be included in a battle pack or ultra pack. At least this way you're enticed more to buy those packs that have rehashed figures... We all know we won't get playsets or accessory packs anymore. So this is one of the ways to get it done.
I'm honestly tiring now of buying SW. Cost has driven many people out of collecting. Space to put all of this carp is another big reason. Reissues/repaints of old molds is yet another.
Hasbro needs to keep the line fresh. And I'm talking Legacy here, not Legends or Animated. It appears they don't really care to give it as much attention as they used to so we bear the brunt of that as collectors. So be it. I'm looking for never before made characters that are FIRST from movie sources, then cartoon, then EU (and at that established EU as in games or novels or comic books, NOT Hasbro made-up carp).
If we must keep getting the same core characters fine, pimp the carp out of them, make them the best of the best that can ever be done and never have to resculpt them again. Then just rerelease those every few years.
I can't wait until I move into my new home (hopefully next month). I am SO looking forward to liquidating much of my unwanted stuff. I know I'll take a hit on it as it's a down economy and most collectors already have what I'll be off loading. However, I'm not looking to make a mint, I'm looking to seriously downsize the collection. Having a 10X25 storage bin filled with stuff does me no good if I can view it daily.
I'd be fine with the line ending. Again as said before, there are a few characters I'd be disappointed with not being made. But they aren't all THAT critical. I can make most of them as custom figs if need be.
Sorry for the rant, I guess I feel like I'm getting to old for this anymore. Buying a home has really changed a lot of the way I think about collecting.
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When BAD ends and invariably it will, the cost of figs must come down by at least $1. That was one reason for the price increase per figure. I think people are forgetting that.
Whoa! No, Legacy, Saga Legends, and Clone Wars are the same price. (Prices may vary by retail location, but they all have the same SRP.) It's just a happy coincidence that we had something nice with the price increase to rationalize it.
Hasbro decided to give us a cooler "bonus" that we happened to really like (as a group) with this particular price increase. It could just as easily have been a stand, a coin, or nothing at all (like The Clone Wars range). Hasbro increased the prices of its products across the board since early to mid 2008-- we as Star Wars fans were not singled out. Transformers, G.I. Joe, Littlest Pet Shop, NERF, everything had a jump in price over the past year and a half. Build-a-droid had nothing to do with this increase, and there's no reason for Hasbro to throw out a decrease unless their costs changed or they think it will help overall sales.
During the Power of the Jedi era after Episode I, Hasbro actually did decrease its price to retailers-- those retailers mostly opted not to pass along the savings to us and kept retail at around $6.99. Pricing is a really tricky thing dictated by a variety of factors, some of which are... shall we say difficult to discuss in a public forum.
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I can't wait until I move into my new home (hopefully next month). I am SO looking forward to liquidating much of my unwanted stuff. I know I'll take a hit on it as it's a down economy and most collectors already have what I'll be off loading. However, I'm not looking to make a mint, I'm looking to seriously downsize the collection. Having a 10X25 storage bin filled with stuff does me no good if I can view it daily.
You've got me beat by 5' Sal. ;) I've got a few more years to go before I'll be settling into a house, but ya - there's no freaking way all this stuff is going to fit in a single room. Looking forward to downsizing as well.
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Build a Droid has been by far the best insert that Hasbro's ever done. I really wish they were continuing.
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I think the Build-a-Droid concept has been by far the best pack in we've gotten as well. I would have been buying the majority of these figures anyway, so I rarely felt like I "had" to buy any just to get the part (aside from maybe a wave or two). Although the new droids were nice, I have to say that I think I enjoyed the various astrodroids and protocol droids the most. I'm pretty sure that Hasbro has said, or at least hinted, that the build-a-droid stuff would be ending in 2010 (when, I'm not sure). If that is true, part of me wouldn't mind if they just skipped the pack in - unless they did a stand like the 25th Joe line did, those were nice. At this point, I really doubt if it would make a difference in the price either way. I don't really see prices dropping anymore, unless they really need the bump in sales.
If CW isn't cheaper, and it is looked at primarily as the "kids" line - I don't think we'll see lower prices in Legacy stuff. It seems like the TLC line (or whatever it is called in the future) is moving more and more towards a "collector's" line, and as we've seen with other licenses, that usually means fewer releases, but often a higher price. It sure would be nice to see a price break again though, it was really nice in the days of getting figures for $4.99 each (something we're not likely to see again). Adam is right though, it isn't like it is just the SW brand. Heck, in our area at least, it is still the cheapest 3 3/4" line (aside from the DCIH line, which really doesn't have the quality). Marvel Universe, Joes, and even things like Star Trek (at one time) were all closing in on $8 or $9. The 6" figure lines are creeping up too. I remember buying Marvel Legends for $6.88 each at both Target and Wal-Mart a few years ago, and now single figures range from $12.99 up to $25 for a two pack.
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When BAD ends and invariably it will, the cost of figs must come down by at least $1. That was one reason for the price increase per figure. I think people are forgetting that.
Then again I can still see the gripe if people aren't collecting every figure. They end up with parts they don't want or need, either have to try and trade or sell them off or throw them away.
I appreciate that the price per figure is a major consideration for some people. But I sincerely think that sentiments/hypotheses like this one are misplaced. There are a number of factors that have gotten the current MSRP of basic figures to $7.99 each. And it's not all because of the Droid Factory concecpt. What is it?
VOLUME - When we were in the midst of the ROTS line, prices were very collector friendly. And that's because the market was flooded with product, and there were plenty of people buying that product. Both Hasbro & the retailers profits margins were based more on volume of sales and high turnover than maximizing profit per unit.
Sales have gone down dramatically since the days of 2005. And that's forced both Hasbro and the retailers to shift their business model to maximize the profit per unit.
MARKET FORCES - There are a couple of significant market forces that raised Hasbro's costs. First? The increased cost of oil. That has affected both energy costs as well as plastics costs. And that increased cost gets passed on to the consumer.
And then there's the consumer product safety issues that got raised with items produced in Chinese factories. This was a major business scandal that saw a number of consumer products pulled from store shelves because of potentially hazardous materials being used by Chinese factories. A number of those being toys that were found to have lead paint content, which was in violation of safety standards. Hasbro and other toy manufacturers had to invest in ensuring that proper safety standards were being followed. And doing so increased costs.
QUALITY - It's been stated in this same thread. We're at a level of quality in the basic figure line like we've never seen before. The articulation, sculpting and accessories are undoubtedly some of the best we've ever seen. It seems almost certain that such an increase in quality has a price tag attached to it.
I know that these factors had a lot more to do with price increases than the Droid Factory value-added pack-in program. And let's be honest...there's always been a value added pack-in. Some of them have been cheaper, but they've been around for some time. Freeze Frames, Flashback cards, CommTech chips, Jedi Force Files, Figure stands, hologram mini-figures, coins, etc. All of those had added to the cost of figures. Some were cheaper than others, obviously. But some of the most elaborate pack-ins were offered during those ROTS days of low prices. So to associate an elaborate pack-in with higher basic figure prices? History suggests something to the contrary. Volume wins that argument.
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Very well stated, Nick.
Can you offer up a similar analysis on why distribution and release dates for product is so horribly messed up right now? Why is Hasbro not able to definitively state when new toys will be available to retail outlets? There is 0 transparency right now.
If they spend so much time sketching out their production schedule 1-2 years ahead of time it seems inexplicably remiss not to put any thought into better timed releases.
EXAMPLE: SDCC Clone Wars Wave 10 street date 7/31/09 - NOT OUT YET
SDCC Clone Wars Speeder Bike w/Dooke & Freeco Speeder w/Obi-Wan street date 8/7/09 - NOT OUT YET
And this doesn't even touch on the insanity of releasing 3 waves right on top of each other, as they did recently with the CW line.
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Build a Droid has been by far the best insert that Hasbro's ever done. I really wish they were continuing.
Agree with you. Hasbro just needs to STOP making the obscure figures! They really do! That's the No. 1 way to get figure sales up again (besides lowering the price of figs by a $1 or 2. :D
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Build a Droid has been by far the best insert that Hasbro's ever done. I really wish they were continuing.
Agree with you. Hasbro just needs to STOP making the obscure figures! They really do! That's the No. 1 way to get figure sales up again (besides lowering the price of figs by a $1 or 2. :D
But how many more resculpts of the main characters can you sell before the entire collecting community abandons the line?
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Build a Droid has been by far the best insert that Hasbro's ever done. I really wish they were continuing.
Agree with you. Hasbro just needs to STOP making the obscure figures! They really do! That's the No. 1 way to get figure sales up again (besides lowering the price of figs by a $1 or 2. :D
But how many more resculpts of the main characters can you sell before the entire collecting community abandons the line?
Exactly. I don't need nothing but resculpts. There has to be some middle ground.
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Build a Droid has been by far the best insert that Hasbro's ever done. I really wish they were continuing.
Agree with you. Hasbro just needs to STOP making the obscure figures! They really do! That's the No. 1 way to get figure sales up again (besides lowering the price of figs by a $1 or 2. :D
At what point did I say that Hasbro needs to stop making obscure figures?
Never-before-made figures are the biggest part of what keeps me interested in the hobby. The more obscure the better, as long as it was from one of the actual films.
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Obscure characters, especially aliens, are what keep the Legacy line fresh - even Hasbro admits this, and its what keeps collectors coming back. But once we have definitive sculpts of all the major characters in all their various oufits, collector interest will really fall off a cliff, unless the upcoming tv show excites collectors into buying another line. Either way, I think the Legacy line has years left in it, so long as Hasbro makes the necessary cut backs and focuses on giving us the figures we want, as well as updating all the vintage and POTF2 sculpts.
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Sorry - I meant VERY obscure figures (forgot to add in the 'very'). :( I'm fine with the obscure ones - but there are just some characters that, although they may be somewhat cool, not everybody's gonna buy the ones that appear for a second or so in the films, or the ones that aren't too popular in the EU. Granted, the Cantina aliens do deserve a place in the line at one point or another. But then there are characters that just don't have a major chance of success on the pegs. But that's just my POV.
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Sorry - I meant VERY obscure figures (forgot to add in the 'very'). :( I'm fine with the obscure ones - but there are just some characters that, although they may be somewhat cool, not everybody's gonna buy the ones that appear for a second or so in the films, or the ones that aren't too popular in the EU. Granted, the Cantina aliens do deserve a place in the line at one point or another. But then there are characters that just don't have a major chance of success on the pegs. But that's just my POV.
That's all fine and well, but I never said anything about not wanting very obscure characters either.
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Very well stated, Nick.
Can you offer up a similar analysis on why distribution and release dates for product is so horribly messed up right now? Why is Hasbro not able to definitively state when new toys will be available to retail outlets? There is 0 transparency right now.
That's a much tougher nut to crack and involves a good deal more speculation. My own theory? Look at two of Hasbro's other major boys brands. They had MAJOR releases in both the GI Joe & Transformers licenses for this year. Movie year level releases.
Now would the Hasbro Star Wars team publicly state that the production runs for those two licenses impeded the production schedule of the Star Wars line? I would absolutely not expect them to do that. It's bad to throw your own company under the bus like that. And comments like that have a way of getting back to their source in a negative way.
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MARKET FORCES - There are a couple of significant market forces that raised Hasbro's costs. First? The increased cost of oil. That has affected both energy costs as well as plastics costs. And that increased cost gets passed on to the consumer.
Forgive me, but if this is accurate, why are we not seeing a price increase in Canada? Whether we have oil or not is irrelevant as the figures are produced in China, yet our price has remained stable since the POTJ days and through the price increases the US has faced. $9.99 plus or minus about $0.07 is what we've been paying since that time. So if the cost of oil is indeed a factor and you've seen a 30% increase or thereabouts, why aren't we seeing it?
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Eh f-it it's the high price that is screwing the pooch for me at least. Darn $8 a figure is a JOKE. A dirty JOKE I tell you all. Bring that price down a buck or two and watch the Legacy line gets it's precious "support". Get those vehicle prices back to will ya H-bro or TRU or Target. We are in a crappy recession for Christ's sake. I can't afford $75 Gunships damnit and $45 AT-ST walkers are much better or even $50 Rancors.
Now bring on Willrow and Leesub to save the Legacy line!!!
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Get rid of Saga Legends - Hasbro has 19 reissues in the 55 "new" figures this year. That's almost the same amount as the Saga Legends line - that means they could have put those Legends reissues in with the Legacy Collection.
Stop numbering figures - while this is probably more of a personal issue to collectors like me, but carded reissues could be skipped if they weren't numbered.
Stop changing the packaging - during a recession was NOT the time to change the look-and-feel of the line and then compell Hasbro to reissue so many Legacy and Clone Wars figures just because the packaging had changed. If the Blue/White line was still going, many of the re-releases that are coming out would have been un-necessary.
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Get rid of Saga Legends - Hasbro has 19 reissues in the 55 "new" figures this year. That's almost the same amount as the Saga Legends line - that means they could have put those Legends reissues in with the Legacy Collection.
Stop changing the packaging - during a recession was NOT the time to change the look-and-feel of the line and then compell Hasbro to reissue so many Legacy and Clone Wars figures just because the packaging had changed. If the Blue/White line was still going, many of the re-releases that are coming out would have been un-necessary.
I say the same for the Saga Legends line - I'm tired of all the lame re-issues (Why is Saesee Tiin STILL in the line ... whattabout Shaak Ti? Or Luminara Unduli? Or Sharad Hett?). >:( As for the packaging, I like the current look. It's rumored to go back to a black/silver vintage-like look, but that's ridiculous considering the packaging was just changed not even that long ago.
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I think when saga legends works, it's pretty cool. I liked having the opportunity to get several snowtroopers, since I was only able to get the VOTC released snowies from online sources. But I think we'd be better served having these figures inserted into the regular line, since Hasbro really seems to be stretching it to find candidates for the Legends line.
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Stop changing the packaging - during a recession was NOT the time to change the look-and-feel of the line and then compell Hasbro to reissue so many Legacy and Clone Wars figures just because the packaging had changed. If the Blue/White line was still going, many of the re-releases that are coming out would have been un-necessary.
Tell that one to Lucas Licensing. Packaging changes come from them, and the look bridges various different licensees. It's no coincidence that Hasbro, LEGO and Uncle Milton all have very similar package designs.
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I seriously wish Hasbro would just end it all. The line has run its course. They've already milked it for all its worth and then some. I'm sick of them reissuing the same crap over & over & over & over....
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I can't agree that I feel it's run its course, but again I've got a handful that I'll be disappointed if I never see them updated in the line... All resculpts of existing modern figures ironically.
I think when it comes to secondary characters there's a lot of well-dipping left too, but it's really getting obscure at this point, save perhaps for vintage updates.
I'm fairly happy... The only thing that prevents me buying up army builders like I used to is the price, actually. I think a lot of the repacks make sense, and like Landothescoundrel said, some of the LEgends line works... better than others I believe. Not sure where the sales data is on Plo Koon and Sae Sae Tinn that have them out there in hoards like they are, but whatever.
I personally have seen it worse than it currently is, but that's just my local situation... I didn't see much at the tail end of Episode 1's line, and the latter saga stuff (2003/2004-ish time frame). I'm in the quagmire too right now where very little Legacy is getting out... Some, but it's a fraction of what Legends/Clone Wars is getting, and there's really no space for new Legacy to go anywhere as the pegs are full of either repacks that probably shouldn't have been repacked, and the aforementioned other lines.
I figure it'll carry on, so I'm not panicing. I ordered most on HasbroToyShop recently and just need to track down Rum Sleg at the moment... Not counting those ****** ball turrets we're being screwed into buying 2 of to "have a set of balls", haha. :) Which if we had, I suppose we'd not buy any... *sigh*
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Well, be prepared for Hasbro to NOT change much. They'll still sell us crappy stuff and knowing that many of us are completisit. I am just a figure completest and I am still getting sick of it all.
I wish we all had the balls to stand up to Hasbro. Boycott and make them take a big loss. Just once do I wish we could cripple them a bit.
Spoken like a real rebel. lol
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If you're a completist that's your own problem.
Am I the only one here who actually enjoys this hobby a little and hopes Hasbro keeps making new characters and high quality resculpts for the foreseeable future? ???
I'm not terribly interested in EU stuff, but the next 6 or 7 waves all look pretty strong to me.
The Legends line isn't my thing, but obviously they sell enough that it's worth their time to put them on the shelves. In the last week I've bought wave 7, one of the comic packs, and a set of Target Geonosis 2-packs. Sales will probably be pretty much fine once they actually get all this product onto the shelves.
And the holidays are right around the corner.
I don't think all this doom and gloom is really necessary.
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I seriously wish Hasbro would just end it all. The line has run its course. They've already milked it for all its worth and then some. I'm sick of them reissuing the same crap over & over & over & over....
Then quit, they are not holding a gun to your head to buy any of this stuff. If you really feel that bitter and burned out about the line you can always just end your collecting yourself. It's a pretty easy fix, you may actually feel happy again. Saying they "milked it for all its worth" is a worthless statement in itself when you are talking about a brand that generates millions in revenue. There is still a lot of money to be made and many of us who still really enjoy Hasbro's brand of figures and want to collect more. If Hasbro stopped making this stuff another company would gladly pick up the ball where they left off. Then you would have a new company to whine about.
Seriously, I am having a hard time understanding all of those griping along the lines of wishing Hasbro to just end it or to "make Hasbro pay". Why not just stop buying if you really feel that way? Speaking in a theoretical "what if" scenario is a different story but to wish the line to end or hurt Hasbro is pointless folly. What good does that serve anyone?
While there are legitimate reasons to find faults with some things all this doom and gloom is such a broken record that it's really starting to drag down the community as a whole. Sure, the current prices are high and the stuff is a bit harder to track down but guess what? Across the board the consensus of the product line itself has never been more well received than now. I would rather pay more money and have a really quality product than a crappier one just to hit a price point for a buck less.
It's no secret that price is really the biggest issue with collectors right now, that's fair enough. But let's get to the Freudian core of the matter shall we? Many collectors are upset that they cannot "buy it all" anymore. They can no longer buy 50 of one trooper or 4 of the same ship. I am seeing a pattern on several SW sites from the really hardcore complainers that supports my point. In my opinion and observation, I see the real root of their problem is the classic "Have vs. Have Not" attitude. Many are angry that they cannot afford to get everything they would truly want to collect and just blame Hasbro for not being able to afford what they make. They should stop being Archie Bunkers who just complain about the situation and find a way to solve their "dilemma".
Contrary to popular belief prices are not going to get better for a long time so if you really want to "collect it all" you have to find a way to raise additional funds to pay for it, end of story. I have the hobby pay for itself so I can still buy everything I want. I am very committed to the line, I love collecting it, I want them to make more and found a way to keep up by earning extra money to pay for it. Throwing your hands up in defeat and "wishing the line to die" or "to make Hasbro pay for the injustice" is the rally cry of a classic loser.
Look, I am being blunt because I am so sick of this kind of "boo-hooing" and bitching about how life is so unfair yadda, yadda, deal with it by doing something about it. It's like voting, you have no right to bitch if you did not vote at all. If you cannot afford to buy and cannot/will not find a way to earn extra scratch for it then simply quit. If you have to cut back on some things to keep then so be it, it's OK to pass on repainted vehicles and other products to leave the resources to buy the items you really want. If you are going to stay angry and complain at least attempt to change your situation by doing something to solve the problem.
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Am I the only one here who actually enjoys this hobby a little and hopes Hasbro keeps making new characters and high quality resculpts for the foreseeable future? ???
No, you are not. I am with ya!
(FYI - PM coming tomorrow.)
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I'm with you too Rob... My point with my post is that there's a lot more I'd like to buy... Some of it I want a LOT, some of it I want, and some of it I'll buy though it's not something I was really asking for (Malikili resculpt for instance).
I don't feel Hasbro's putting out crap though, so that's probably why I am happy to buy new stuff generally right now... What I don't do as much of, which I enjoyed a lot and miss, is buying a LOT of certain figures...
Case-in-point, Snowtroopers. I've gotten to 40 and I've gotta cap it at this point unless I've really got extra cash burning a hole in my pocket. I'd love more. I'd love 100 of the buggers, but I can't justify it. I especially have cut back on the prequal stuff because it isn't AS important to me as OT stuff. The only army builder I've been consistant in buying is the Hoth Rebel Soldier... I've passed on a handful but just bought two the other day. Supporting my Rebels makes me hope I get more of them I guess.
I think Hasbro will try correcting the ship some way, but who knows how.
I love the line and actually think they're putting out some of my favorite stuff now, so I really don't have a desire to see it end, till at least I get the things I really want the most.
That said, I've cut back... I think everyone has. It's been ok though, and there's not much I can say I've "done without" even on a tight budget like I am. Will I get 40 Gungan Warriors? No... It's a great figure, but that's the kind of line I'm drawing at this point. I'll nab 3 or 5 tops, call it a day, enjoy mixing them in then with my POTJ Troopers... Such is life. There was a time when I'd have gone hogwild on Gungan Warriors though, haha.
Completism is a tough nut to crack... I still generally am a loose figure completist, but ya know, I feel really good that I kicked buying vehicles if I don't feel they're up to my standards, and I pass on multi-packs often (Skittles Royal Guard Training set, for instance) and only buy things on clearance like that. I skipped some of the comic packs even though I wanted one figure in them maybe. I skipped the CW Y-Wing the other day because it's EU and I'm limiting my EU high cost items to pretty much OT-era stuff.
LIttle stuff like that saves me a lot... I don't have to have it all, for sure. A lot of it I'm quite happy to do without, actually, as it just wasn't that good IMO. At least as far as vehicles go (Don't own an ARC, Turbo Tank, etc.).
I honestly don't believe the line's ending though, anytime soon. I really think scaled back is what we're likely to see, but the "end" isn't in sight yet IMO.
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I'm with you guys too in that I hope the line continues on. I hope my previous post didn't seem like I felt otherwise. I'm probably enjoying the actual product as much as I ever have. I think the figures have been great, and we're finally getting a nice focus back on OT waves after a couple scarce years. In fact, outside of the VOTC/VTSC waves (and a few other figures here and there), I don't think I've been as pumped about a lot of the figures in a long time. Plus, aside from some weathering issues, I don't know if the vehicles have ever been better. It is a lot of the reason I hope we continue to see the OT ships get redone. The vintage molds are still pretty nice, but it is amazing how much Hasbro can do when they really go all out.
Like Jesse, a lot of the figures I want to see made at this point are resculpts as well. Sure, I want to see the vintage line finished, and I'm always up for more Cantina/Jabba's Palace denizens, but the majority of what I want otherwise is to finish updating the main characters, troops (primarily Rebels), and a few miscellaneous others from the POTF2 days. There are a few PT figures I'd still like to see redone as well, but my primary "list" would be OT as well.
That being said, I could handle a bit of a "slow down" as I've mentioned before. Somewhere in the 36-40 figures per year would be fine with me, and spread out a little more consistently throughout the year (a wave every other month would be nice, if it was possible). Toss in a couple of exclusives (vehicle/beast re-dos like this year), and that would be ok. Otherwise, I'm fine with CW getting the bulk of the attention right now, as long as they keep Legacy (or whatever it will be called) going as well. I have started to order online pretty much for every wave anymore, because Legacy stocking has gotten really inconsistent here as well. There may be three sections at the store (one for Legacy, one for Legends, one for Clone Wars), but they are all jammed full of Clone Wars and maybe a sprinkling of Legends around here. Hopefully that is something they can get resolved. I can understand how they have the "branding", but I sometimes wonder if it wouldn't help if there was more of a difference between the "classic" and "Clone Wars" line looks. Have Clone Wars on this red/white type packaging, or something similar, and use this vintage-esque packaging that has been rumored for the future "Legacy" line. Ditch Legends (or incorporate it into the regular line), and maybe they could keep things straight a little easier. Anyways, too long of a post again, but I'm with Rob/Jesse/etc. in that I hope it keeps going for awhile yet. Price/distribution issues aside, I'm really still enjoying it as well.
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If you're a completist that's your own problem.
Am I the only one here who actually enjoys this hobby a little and hopes Hasbro keeps making new characters and high quality resculpts for the foreseeable future? ???
I'm not terribly interested in EU stuff, but the next 6 or 7 waves all look pretty strong to me.
The Legends line isn't my thing, but obviously they sell enough that it's worth their time to put them on the shelves. In the last week I've bought wave 7, one of the comic packs, and a set of Target Geonosis 2-packs. Sales will probably be pretty much fine once they actually get all this product onto the shelves.
And the holidays are right around the corner.
I don't think all this doom and gloom is really necessary.
I have some frustration with not being able to find the new Legacy stuff, but I agree 100% with you. I want the line to keep going, and don't see it going away.
As for the people who are moaning saying the line is going downhill, that sounds like the same thing from back in 2005 when a lot of collectors said the line would be dead within a year after ROTS came out.
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I don't even remember anyone complaining in 2005 that the line was going to die... 2005 was one of the modern line's best years ever IIRC. It dominated boy's toys that year. And at least one year after.
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Then quit
Oh, I pretty much have. I'm content with my collection & it's to my liking, so I no longer have the urge to add much more to my collection. On average, I find myself picking up maybe 1 figure per new wave. I mean, how many different clones are enough? How much more ridiculous can it get? Clone troopers with jaw articulation? Re-issue #12? Obscure comic book figure "Darth Puff" which would be just a puff of smoke packaged on a blister & card? And people would buy it. Most likely, YOU would buy it.
I feel the line has run its course. Obviously you feel different. Gobble away. No need to get your panties in a wad just because I feel different (as important as you feel my opinion is).
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No offense to anyone, but a lot of people are taking this very seriously when it's just a rumor! I respect everyone's opinion, but, firstly, the end of the Legacy IS JUST A RUMOR! Yes, it most likely WILL end, but it doesn't mean it's the end of the modern realistic line .... if anything, the end of Legacy means that Hasbro is doing what it needs to do to ensure that the realistic line survives. Also, a lot of people say that including pack-ins (such as the droid parts) deduct from the quality of the figure itself. I think this isn't true, Hasbro can still make perfect figs like General Grievous and Obi-Wan (both Ep.II and IV) without having the BAD gimmick influence its sculpt. That's just my POV, I would really like to see the BAD promotion continue, but for some reason a lot of collectors feel that the line just won't survive. The line not surviving is entirely Hasbro's fault - there are just way too many secondary figures and resculpts of the same characters in the line. Yes, it is good to have a few minor characters in a few waves, but to let them take over is a mistake. Collectors not buying is because they would rather see either different characters or more important characters in the line. We do need that SA Darth Maul, and an updated Princess Leia (ANH w/ buns) wouldn't be bad additions. Now, people would buy those...
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Whatever the case, I am curious to know if the price will be adjusted (lowered) with the loss of the build a droid part? Didn't the part justify the raised price in the first place? Hasbro are pimps. CW figures and Saga legends all cost the same as Legacy and they don't even have build a droid parts.
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I don't even remember anyone complaining in 2005 that the line was going to die... 2005 was one of the modern line's best years ever IIRC. It dominated boy's toys that year. And at least one year after.
Yep, 2005 was an awesome year and I think it was my favorite time collecting. What I was saying is there were a lot of people thinking that the line would die like it did after ROTJ - you know, the end of a trilogy. Go back in the RS forums and you'll see a lot of threads about it in the 2005/2006 time frame... might take some digging though. I got into a few discussions with people then who thought it would end after the ROTS line was complete... to a lesser extent there was even mention of a fear that Walmart was going to dump Star Wars even here at JD (http://www.jedidefender.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=9384.0).
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the line would die like it did after ROTJ - you know, the end of a trilogy.
Ah, ok... Yeah, that probably tied into the fear there was nothing supporting it.
Then again it could be that just the majority of people discussing it at Scum's forums had started collecting THAT YEAR, and were bitching up a storm that it all may come crashing down around them too. :) Scum's boards aren't exactly the cream of the crop as far as conversation goes. That definately smacks of "the sky is falling" type mentality though...
The discussion here seemed tied around misinformation from a WM manager or three that they weren't carrying it anymore... Something the manager themself probably doesn't even know the answer to (based on my experience anyway).
The only helpful info out of a WM manager I ever got was that the Falcon's I'd been eyeing for a while were getting a massive cut in price the following week, and sure enough there they were for $60 something.
Things aren't great these days as distribution goes, but I honestly have had worse times since I started collecting, which was right from the beginning. I just am annoyed right now, more than anything. I'd love to buy the stuff I want and it's just trickling out in dribs and drabs. I see the Scout Trooper repack, and the Space Trooper and Han/Luke Stormtrooper repacks from the new cases, and generally that is it aside from the 3 figures of the E1 wave I managed to find one each of.
Ironically I found Nein Numb which seems to be difficult for some to track down out of that wave, and not one other from that wave have I seen. Oh well. All in good time. I'd just appreciate it happening BEFORE the next wave is due out.
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Agreed, and what I was doing is just mentioning that this isn't the first time there's been people predicting some sort of demise to the line as we know it. Ha, I can remember back in 1998 on the old ANCIENT Yakface board, people saying we'd never see OT figures again once the TPM stuff hit... even a local Walmart manager in my area said that they weren't even going to carry TPM figures at any Walmarts... never, never put all your faith in store employees folks. ;)
There's always some people across all boards who are going to have their own views and predictions, and I don't think they're less qualified to have an opinion because they post at a certain board that is unpopular with a certain crowd, but at the same time I don't think what some are afraid of is going happen for quite some time. Time will tell of course, but I wouldn't be surprised to see Hasbro's contract get extended past 2018.
As for this year, I've loved the product, just not thrilled with the distribution. I think there's several reasons that factor into it from Hasbro's strategy to focus on CW for the time being, to trying to space things out with other toy lines they own so they aren't competing so much with each other, etc. - so I'm not worried.
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Time will tell of course, but I wouldn't be surprised to see Hasbro's contract get extended past 2018.
Is it even possible for Hasbro to extend their contract? I've been wanting to ask this for a long time ... and as sucky as 2009 has been, Star Wars Hasbro has been very successful. I wouldn't be surprised if the contract extends.
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If they feel like paying for the extension, I'm sure anything is possible. It's been extended once already, actually, to its current expiration date.
2018 is a ways off... I wonder what we'll have by that point? Would the vintage line be completed? Would Wilrow Hood have a resculpt? The mysteries!
I'd be happy with some definitive Endor Rebels, and a definitive Rebel Fleet Trooper.
For the Endor's, I'd like a sergeant (in trench coat), and the Saga and POTF2 figures done to perfection... :) Another deco and headsculpt of the curreht Hoth Rebel would be nice too. :-X
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By then, figures will be $12.00 each and have articulated fingers... :P
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I was thinking they'll be self-contained AI that are able to help around the house, and things. I want that Fleet Trooper to run the vacuum.
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By then, figures will be $12.00 each and have articulated fingers... :P
For 12 dollars, it had better cook my ******* dinner. And I'm not talking this take-out Chinese stuff from last night that the figure just heats up in the microwave; I'm talking full-on, home-cooked, marinate-it-in-wine quality steak and baked potato dinner. Something tells me, though, that it would be a 12 dollar Yarna, and it would just eat the dinner itself. ******* 12 dollar Yarna, eating me out of house and home. >:(
And you kids and your rock and roll music: BAH! ;D
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LOL
By 2016, the line will be planned out all the way til the contract expires in 2018. I wonder what new sculpts, if any, will be on the table then. I also wonder if Hasbro will plan beyond 2018. I already know what...repacks!
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Things aren't great these days as distribution goes.
Worse for us Canucks. It's been bad before; we're almost always guaranteed to miss waves of crap at the tail end before they shut down a particular cardback/named line. But honestly? Killing the Legacy stuff while it should still be coming out for Canada, England and who knows where else? No, it doesn't get worse than that.
I get Hasbro's appeal for CW distribution; but killing Legacy for us entirely and it is done through this year and for the forseeable future, I just don't get. I appreciate the bulk of you are in the US and will continue to have it better, as it always has been and always will be. But really, can you honestly blame those of us abroad for largely giving up?
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I blame nobody abroad for giving up. It seems unless you're in China, you're not likely to have much luck obtaining anything right now. It's something I don't see as making much sense personally, but I also think they could've found better ways to distribute things, even if it was offered through online distributors in these countries somehow... I'm sure there's toy stores who'd be willing to offer up stuff by the case, and I'd think making sure they're in the mix of etailers getting product wouldn't be impossible.
It's a mess though, so I have no idea. I don't think everything Hasbro does is logical... I never have.
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Legends Action Figures is based out of Montreal for us (you've probably seen the ad on scum) and they're actually really good guys to deal with. But the pricing is a bit steep, usually running in the $12 per figure range so it's a tough pill to swallow. I'll likely order any of the OT waves/cases from them and try to sell off the fillers/PT figs. So there are solutions.
I just refuse to be happy about a distributor (Hasbro Canada) that continues shipping the Yarna wave more than a year after the initial release. Hell, it's almost 18 months. The failure of the line simply is not the fault of the consumer nor the economy in that case.
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I posted this in the PSWCS Yahoo e-mail list, but I'll repost it here:
I'm not necessarily seeing a dearth of product at any of the stores I frequent with possible exception to Wal*Mart. But of what I do see it's mostly Legends, then Clone Wars and either none or next to none of Legacy.
I have to agree with the part of the rant (posted on Jedi Temple Archives) that states to put Legends out only when there is a lull.
Hasbro is going to say that it's the stores who are ordering more Legends cases. That's in part because that's what the store is getting, so of course it's going to look like it's selling more than Legacy.
I'm all for making this one line.
Cases can be mixed as such:
Case 1 (Thirds)
4 figs CW, 4 figs Legacy, 4 figs Legends
Case 2 (50/50)
6 figs CW, 6 figs Legacy
In this respect only some Legends figs hit the shelves, not plugging them up.
Hasbro can then have smaller waves of figures. This works very well for Build-A-Droid waves. Waves that have 4 figs to make an Astromech and waves that have 6 figs to make protocol and other droids fit into this scheme perfectly.
One line, one price, one source for availability. Deleting the additional sku's will also help the stock people at our local retail stores.
This seems like a much simpler way to do it. The complaint from Hasbro would be that they wouldn't be able to track how well Clone Wars vs. Legacy vs. Legends were selling. However, that is something we can readily let them know via reports from the collecting websites. If we're seeing CW or Legacy or Legends figures lag on the shelf, then Hasbro could adjust accordingly in the future.
[end copy/paste]
So how about that? Does my idea of mixed Animated/Realistic/Legends sound okay at least? I think it really has merit. Everyone will see some product then. Waves can be smaller with realistic waves still having the opportunity to have build-a-figure pieces in them.
I'd appreciate folks thoughts on this. And maybe Hasbro is looking in on this thread too...
-Sal
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Canadian retailers within Canada (i.e. non-specialty stores) are only able to order from a particular sku# that represents a line (i.e. Legends or Clone Wars or Legacy; or if all one sku at Hasbro Canada then who knows) and cannot ask for specific waves. So while I can guarantee my local Walmart toy manager never wants to see the Yarna wave again, she is likely to see it until it is flushed from Hasbro's warehouse. The only people that are satisfied with product moving at that point is Hasbro and the retailer and consumer are left holding the bag/responsibility for not continuing to purchase product.
Is this the same situation in the US or are retailers able to specify by case number for example?
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That I know of, no. Retailors can't ask for specific waves. E-tailors can to a slight extent.
If you ask me, it should be the retailors dictating to Hasbro what cases of which waves they want.
If some savy marketing rep from any of the big box stores took a look around on the collecting boards, they'd see the figures we collectors are more excited about and order those in heavier doses.
What I am sick of is those "refresher" cases. We get the same figures that aren't selling in some waves coming in later cases that should be reserved for new figures. And those refreshed figs aren't coming with the droid part they once had. Now it's the new droid wave part. Thus making it harder for people to complete droids in many instances.
I'd rather hasbro wait a year or more before bring out figures that have just been made. This will give them enough time to find out which figures actually sold well, rather than guessing. Then maybe we wouldn't have had the dearth of Yarna's et al.
This would also help by moving more (read new) product onto the shelves in a timely fashion that would more closely resemble Hasbro's projected release dates.
For awhile I was not worried about finding figures as it seemed easy. However, in the past 6 months I've found it to be a necessity to buy when I see it. Sometimes this means online purchases which may or may not cost me more. In the end though I have the peace of mind knowing I have the figures without the stress of waiting to get them and/or wasting gas to go to stores-especially when the product isn't there in the first place.
Thanks goodness for Clone Cash coupons. I've saved a bundle using those things.
we all know there are better or different ways Hasbro could be doing things. In most cases they choose to ignore us. So be it, it's their business. However, don't blame us then when stuff isn't flying off the shelf.
AmIrighthereorwhat?
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Looks like Legacy has been making a healthy comeback. Yeah, it'll take centuries for Yarna and Saessee to clear the pegs, but I've been seeing a lot more TLC product from the new packaging.
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The new Q&A make me feel a little better and distribution seems lik eit has improved with the ROTJ wave.
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The new Q&A make me feel a little better and distribution seems lik eit has improved with the ROTJ wave.
And the TPM wave - it's finally hitting stores in my area! :D
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CONFIRMED (http://hanshideout.blogspot.com/2009/12/hasbro-star-wars-q-session-21.html) for the mid-size vehicle line, Fall 2010. :)
1. Things have been awfully quiet on the mid-sized vehicle line. We got a couple of great new additions this past summer (still loving the Droid Tank), but nothing since then. Any chance that you can spot us a couple of hints on upcoming starfighters/ships we'll see on the shelves this Spring?
** Unfortunately, there won't be any new ones this Spring. The Starfighters are doing well, but the new wave that was planned for Spring won't make it out at this point and has been pushed out to Fall '10. When the new assortment starts up, it will be chock full of newness. We can confirm that both the new Snowspeeder and a new Cloud Car will be in the line. Stay tuned for official looks at this at Toy Fair.
Umm, WTF do all those Hasbro employees plan to do for the first part of 2009? Sit around and play Tetris? Are you guys putting ANYTHING out?
I would love to see the look on their CEO's face when the production team announced they are pretty much taking the first 8 months or so off. "I see...and how exactly do you expect me to pay your salaries? From that My Little Pony slush fund?"
Maybe they could use the down time to find a new factory. They seemed to have a lot of problems with the old place this year.
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I think the sheer lack of stuff early next year is the drag in the line that started in '08 (Hasbro said in one Q&A that collector purchases are down 30-40% - wow) finally catching up. They're pulling way back, reorganizing, and coming back in the fall. It's somewhat similar to what happened in early 2000 after the collapse of the EP1 line, except nowhere near as catastrophic. Also, the CW line is going strong.
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I think the sheer lack of stuff early next year is the drag in the line that started in '08 (Hasbro said in one Q&A that collector purchases are down 30-40% - wow) finally catching up. They're pulling way back, reorganizing, and coming back in the fall. It's somewhat similar to what happened in early 2000 after the collapse of the EP1 line, except nowhere near as catastrophic. Also, the CW line is going strong.
I think that might be it as well, plus this product lull (for the "realistic" line in particular) isn't really anything new. It seems like we've been seeing it the past few years now. We've discussed it in other threads here before, but I think the line in general (and that includes the "other" stuff outside of basic figures) seemed to need a streamlining and reorganizing anyway. Hopefully all the rumors pan out, and we'll see a nice, collector-focused line for the "realistic" line from now on. I also wonder (and I speculated on this in the Q and A thread) if it might be possible that we may be seeing a blu ray release of the Saga next fall or something too.
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Well, with all the over-exaggerations Hasbro's making about how exciting the new Basic Figure line is gonna be, I sure do hope they do well. I also hope they focus more on familiar characters - hardcore collector figures (Leesub Sirlin, Colton etc.) are cool, but they only help to make bad sales - we can only admit it. :( And then Hasbro blames that on US, the collectors.
Of course, the TCW line does well. I like that line, and it also has a kiddy appeal to it. But also because the Clone Wars TV series doesn't really have obscure characters.
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Umm, WTF do all those Hasbro employees plan to do for the first part of 2009? Sit around and play Tetris? Are you guys putting ANYTHING out?
Iron Man.
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I certainly think that the 60% rise in the price of a basic figure since 2005 has a lot to do with the 30% - 40% decline in sales.
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I certainly think that the 60% rise in the price of a basic figure since 2005 has a lot to do with the 30% - 40% decline in sales.
There is definitely truth in this, but at some point, the continued increase of price is going to start to contribute to an increase in the decline of sales.
I think they would be in a much better position if they dropped the price of figures back down to $5.99.
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Yeah, I think you're right about that price point, although I doubt we'll see it. It is amazing what a difference the holiday price cuts made in both the SW basic figures and the Joe movie figures - it really seemed to help things move. Star Wars doesn't necessarily have a problem with that for the most part, but it did seem like things picked up when WM had them cut back a bit. Man, $5.99 would be great though, I miss those days (or even the $4.77 days at WM).
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I know I personally skipped buying figures because of the price. $7.99 or more is too much. There is no way to afford buying every figure at that price. $6 was much better.
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I gotta suggest you probably won't see that price cut. I believe the price increase is related as much to the poor US economy and devalued dollar as much or probably significantly more than greed on the part of Hasbro. Your dollar is now very nearly par with the Canadian dollar on an ongoing basis. Our price is typically $9.97 and some of that is due to additional (prior to retail) taxation, but otherwise very similar to what you are now seeing. Should your economy recover, relative to the world stage rather than just sunny articles in the media, I'd bet you'll see a price drop in figures, but not until then.
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I don't disagree with that, I'm just saying that these things are definitely correlated. They really are for me at least... at $8.79 per figure after tax, I'm not army building anything but the Scanner tech, I've got strict limits on army building... when they hit $6.99 each, I stopped collecting carded in addition to loose... my own purchases have probably declined in proportion with the price increases. I think Hasbro's smart to scale the line down a little to mirror people's current spending habits - it's become bloated.
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Sorry, yes, I agree, they are correlated. I certainly wasn't trying to detract from the notion that collector interest has significantly declined because of a rather dramatic increase in price.
Though I'm always baffled somewhat when Hasbro says collector sales dropping is affecting them. I'm sure someone else has pointed it out, but we're routinely told that collectors don't drive the significant portion of the sales. Certainly it's easy to see kids are snapping up the Clone Wars stuff thanks to a successful (and good though I watch it relatively little) cartoon series. Why always pick on collectors? Because they always pick on Hasbro, I suppose.
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CW locally seems to have hit a plateu as well, leading into Christmas. Sales of animated figures by my guesses slowed down around the time the series stopped basically airing new episodes for an extended period of time. Right before Christmas... not smart.
Locally though the 3D figures are hitting a bit of a rut IMO. Even new ones don't go fast. Only Cad Bane comes and goes steadily off the pegs.
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I think Hasbro is at the point where they realize whats going on now, compared to the last 5 years - where they released countless products every year like the world was ending. The pricepoint for a basic figure is significant, but I also think the amount of product available makes a huge impact. Many of us started collecting with the 'collect them all' mentality - which simply isnt the case anymore. For some, if they cant own every figure Hasbro puts out - they'll abandon the line. Whether its for financial reasons or being overwhelmed with too many products, adult collectors leaving the hobby is the end result. Collectors are being much more selective on what they buy and they are skipping a lot of the sub-lines and exclusives. As a result we're seeing them go on hiatus.
Its simple - many of us have been collecting modern figures for a decade, some of us even longer - we're running out of room, we're being selective with our spending, and many of us want to focus on characters we'd like to own for the first time or have been waiting for resculpts since the vintage line. The core of SW collecting remains in the basic figure line - making it affordable and readily available are a few ways Hasbro could secure its health on the pegs.
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Many good points here.
Price increases beyond reasonable consumer expectations
Display/storage issues
Ever aging collecting base
etc.
Personally, I've planned for years to draw down my budget for SW, so the recession and price increases only played a small part. Basically it made it even easier to stay within the budget I afforded to SW toys.
I don't expect Hasbro to lower the price of toys. They've gotten used to us (and by us I mean collectors and kids and their parents alike) paying top dollar for an action figure. There is definitely some greed in that aspect. What we can only hope for is no new price increases for many years to come.
I wouldn't mind seeing the BaD parts go away if it meant a dollar drop in figure prices, but that remains to be seen. The line definitely needs to consolidate to two lines instead of three. In fact I could see it all being one line.
With 12 figures in a case, there are many options for case assortment. Here are some examples:
Case A-Even Split
This case includes 4 figures each of Animated, Realistic, Legends (can be both Animated and Realisitic reissues)
Case B-shortpacked Legends
This case includes 4 Animated and 6 Realistic figures as well as 2 Legends figures. Or the alternate 6 Animated, 4 Realistic and 2 Legends.
Case C-Heavy Animated
Case includes 8 Animated, 4 Realistic NO Legends.
Case D-Heavy Realistic
Case includes 4 Animated, 8 Realistic NO Legends.
Case E-Animated Double Up
Case includes 2X each of 6 Animated figures No Realistic, No Legends
Case F-Realistic Double Up
Case includes 2X each of 6 Realistic figures No Animated, No Legends
in all cases, NONE of the Animated or Realistic figures are rereleases unless they are considered "Legends."
Legends really needs to be pared down. Yes, Hasbro, we understand you say that helps to keep costs down. But it's at the expense of precious peg space. When we see a lot of Legends stuff, not only are we not seeing NEW figures, but we're not seeing the reissued stuff move either. This can't be good for the line. You may have saved production costs, but at the cost of the consumer actually BUYING your product. We know you get tired of hearing from we collectors that we want new stuff, but that is just the way it is. You ask us to buy Battle Packs with multiple reissues in them with MAYBE one new or retooled figure. That doesn't jive too well with many of us. Also, with regards to the Legends line, many of us simply don't buy into it.
I'll give you a prime example. I'm a "cured" Army Builder. I used to go nuts buying troopers. Not any more. When I started seeing clones in the Legends line for the SAME price as new figures when just the year prior they were a dollar less, well, I just wouldn't bring myself to buy any of the more expensive troopers when I was getting absolutely nothing more new for more of my money. And sorry, but the clone weapons locker just doesn't cut it. It's not worth a dollar more. Heck half the guns I wouldn't ever use.
If the price increased, et al are the beginning of the end for SW, I'm fine with it. I have an overwhelming majority of figures I've wanted and many I never expected to see in plastic.
Hasbro can feel free to blame us. But we truly are only a small part of it. Whatever the case, it's been a good run. I don't welcome the end when it comes, but I'll accept it and move on.
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A lotta people say the BOGO 2-packs aren't too healthy for the line (Jeditemplearchives.com even did a report (http://www.jeditemplearchives.com/content/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=5659/#details) on it) All the unused products that have been sitting forever at the warehouses are now being released in a 2-pack. Personally, I like the 2-pack idea for only $8.00, but at the same time, the BOGO packs show just how much stuff Hasbro failed to distribute at first. :(
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But in many cases, the BOGO sets are only from September. Most of the ones I've seen are Phantom Menace wave, and the Jedi wave. Most of these figures were only on the shelves for a few weeks bfore being bundled up.
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I wish I could find more Gungan Warriors, 2 pack or no. I had hoped to build up a squad or two of these. I rarely army build anymore and squads are about as big as I go any more.
That figure was near to impossible to find. I think I have 3 maybe 4 of it. Was hoping to get 10. sigh...and I still need Chewie from the ANH wave and any figs from the ESB wave on.
I'm almost thankful for the lull in new product. Hopefully I can get caught up on all of this other stuff.
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I guess this is sort of along the lines of the "collector's interest" thread, but I thought I'd bump this one up as well. Aside from the fact that we've got a lot of neat stuff on the way this year ("vintage" line, new AT-AT, new Jabba, etc.), it sure seems like there continues to be a lot of "doom and gloom" answers from Hasbro when relating to the Legacy line. We've now seen the final wave become a store exclusive, and we continue to see comments from Hasbro on how bad Legacy is doing.
It seems like, at least for the most part, that although Hasbro says Legacy isn't selling/etc., most of us see it fly off the shelves locally. I know I can count seeing one Legacy figure on the pegs at my three closest stores (Target, WM, TRU), with the rest of the pegs stuffed full of CW and Legends. I don't doubt that those others lines sell too (CW in particular), but I certainly don't see the Legacy line pegwarming at all locally.
I used to think that there was no end in sight, at least for the most part. A scaling back maybe, but no "movie" line at all seemed doubtful to me. I'm starting to wonder a bit now. Hasbro really seems to be telling us consistently how poorly Legacy is doing, and it sometimes seems like they are "preparing" us for a bleak future of movie figures. That being said, there is a lot of neat stuff coming out and on the way this year. The "vintage" line could be all sorts of cool, we've got the new Cloud Car and Snowspeeder, I think we're all anxious to see the new AT-AT and Jabba, and there could be other surprises on the way as well. It does have the feel of "pull out all the stops" for the collectors this year. Anyways, I didn't think we'd see the end of the "movie" line, but part of me could see it at least going on hiatus if this continues. Hasbro is obviously seeing something we're not as far as sales go, and if that doesn't change it seems like it could continue to scale back. I think we've got awhile longer for that yet, and hopefully at least a good couple years of "vintage" line would be nice, but I'm starting to wonder if it is winding down now as well.
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I think, and I could be wrong, that when Hasbro says it isn't selling it's because there are mountains of product in their warehouses that stores aren't bringing in, due to slow sales at retail. The line moves at retail, but I don't know if it does enough. A good comparison is Clone Wars - around here, CW goes through 2-3 cases for every one of Legacy.
I see all the doom and gloom, too, and like I said in another thread, I prefer to see the glass half full. Like you said, we're getting lots of great stuff this year - vintage, Jabba, the AT AT - if it's near the end, it's been a good run.
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I still see the glass as half full too, but this is probably the most pessimistic that I've been with this line in over a decade. I really think Hasbro has made some serious blunders over the past year.
They made so many ill advised decisions this past year, I really hope they have learned from their numerous mistakes.
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I still see the glass as half full too, but this is probably the most pessimistic that I've been with this line in over a decade. I really think Hasbro has made some serious blunders over the past year.
They made so many ill advised decisions this past year, I really hope they have learned from their numerous mistakes.
You summed up what I wanted to say perfectly. Being a Designer I can understand many issues other do not in terms of design, production etc but Hasbro truly made some big blunders in a time when the economy is hurting. I saw some apathy settle into them and they got real sloppy. Even though they praise Legends that line really over saturated the pegs. Vintage should be all encompassing with the lines, what's the point of Legends when they are going to rerelease popular characters on vintage cardbacks at this point? I think they would do better by 6 new and 6 Legends type figures to keep all of the iconic characters in.
I have been with the line since day one and the worst points were late 2001 and 2003 when it seemed like it was over as stores got nothing and there was not much product on the horizon. If this year does not do well I expect to be in one of those cycles or the line will go into a hiatus. Let's hope this years offering brings back those who bailed according to Hasbro.
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I think, and I could be wrong, that when Hasbro says it isn't selling it's because there are mountains of product in their warehouses that stores aren't bringing in, due to slow sales at retail. The line moves at retail, but I don't know if it does enough. A good comparison is Clone Wars - around here, CW goes through 2-3 cases for every one of Legacy.
I see all the doom and gloom, too, and like I said in another thread, I prefer to see the glass half full. Like you said, we're getting lots of great stuff this year - vintage, Jabba, the AT AT - if it's near the end, it's been a good run.
I agree. I tend to look at things in a "glass half full" scenario as well. Although it has been a rougher time for Legacy (and now Vintage) type stuff over the past year and into this year, it has been some of the best product yet I think. The fact that they are bringing back the vintage cardbacks really has me excited, as does the AT-AT, Snowspeeder, Cloud Car, and Jabba. All great things. I'm someone who hopes the movie line goes on for years and years, but even if it is on the downhill side of things, like you said - we've had a good run. Honestly, there are just a few things I'd really like to see done and the rest is just gravy. They could get to most of them in 2 years time, but who knows if that will happen. There will always be unmade characters I'd like to see, but other than a handful, I mainly want to see resculpts of some older figures at this point. I'm sure I'm in the minority there, but a nice mix of resculpts and a couple new figures each wave would be good for me. These lists could get longer (and we have another thread for it anyways), but I hope we can get to resculpts of these characters before 2011 or 2012 is all done with:
Bespin Han Solo
Hoth Luke Skywalker
Admiral Ackbar
Wicket/Logray
Gamorrean Guard
Rebel Fleet Trooper
Nien Nunb
Zam Wessel
Lando Calrissian (Skiff Guard - SA)
Endor Rebel Soldier
AOTC C-3PO
TPM Jar Jar Binks
Otherwise, like many, I just want to see the vintage line finished up (the last few remaining). Aside from those, the wishlists we have here pretty much cover the unmade characters I'd like to see (ROTS Palpatines, Cantina Aliens, Jabba's Palace in particular), and I wouldn't mind seeing a re-done Taun Taun before things are all said and done. Like I've said before, I'm enjoying collecting more than ever as far as the quality of stuff goes lately (figures, vehicles, and beasties have all been pretty great lately)...and I'll stick with it as long as it is going. I'm curious to see what wishlists will look like this year, as things seem to be getting more "re-do" heavy all the time for the movie stuff.
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I'm officially starting to buy into a state of uncertainty when it come to the basic figure line. I certainly hope it's years before the plug is pulled, but all the same I'll be happy with less product each year.
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I'm officially starting to buy into a state of uncertainty when it come to the basic figure line. I certainly hope it's years before the plug is pulled, but all the same I'll be happy with less product each year.
That's sort of what I was thinking as well. Like I said, I'm definitely with the "glass half full" crowd, because I think we've been getting (and are scheduled to get) some really nifty stuff over the past couple years and into this year (and hopefully next). That being said, I used to think this line would last for a long time (with the way things have gone), but I'm getting to the point now - from Hasbro's various answers and the retailers preference for the better selling CW stuff - that an end could possibly be in sight. I never would have thought that a couple of years ago. I hope we get a good 2-3 year run of the new "vintage" line, finish out the unmade figures from the original vintage line, as well as get some new characters and key resculpts before things finish up (if it goes that way).
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The recent press release showing how well Star Wars toys sold this year should be more than enough indication that this line isn't anywhere near dying.
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Sometimes I think the end might be nigh, but at the same time, with all the rumors floating around of a theatrical re release of the films in 3D, I can't see Hasbro ignoring the opportunity. That said, if the line does end in a few years, I don't think I'll be too disappointed. We've gotten a pretty good haul of goodies over the years, and while I'd miss it, I wouldn't feel like we'd missed getting anything absolutely necessary.
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Does that release just say that Clone Wars sold well though and that was it? I don't know what to think from Hasbro honestly. They say it's not selling well but I don't really see them rot on the pegs that much. I have a hard time finding all of the ESB figures hanging on the pegs at each store. I thought for sure Willrow would be in abundance (no offense to the Willrow supports since I am one) but he's actually been pretty darn scarce around the stores I frequent. Unless they have tighted the reigns on everything? OR they mean the stores just buy a couple cases sell through and then move on and not reorder??? I don't know?
Yeah, if it does die it we all have to admit it was a helluva run from 1995-at least 2012. We are all going to die in 2012 anyway ::)
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Yeah, if it does die it we all have to admit it was a helluva run from 1995-at least 2012. We are all going to die in 2012 anyway ::)
I reeeally hope that was a sarcastic comment because I just reeeally don't want to be thinking about all that 2012-fandom stuff on a simple action figure collecting site (it's just not the place).
All that aside, I really do think that Hasbro's blaming the collectors on their growing demise. Too many obscure choices, all in one line, is just not healthy for the TLC. All these obscure choices killed the line, IMO. Yes, people wanted the Organas, they wanted Yarna, they wanted more Cantina drunkards...
And that's fine. But Hasbro should have balanced it out. How? Another Darth Maul. Senate/Office Duel Palpatine or Yoda. But Hasbro's saving those away for later, for some future grand-slam wave. Really, Hasbro? What they need to do is balance out the popularity of the figure choices per wave and line.
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I thought about starting a new topic along these lines in the Vintage Collection section, but wasn't sure if that was necessary. We obviously still have more to see and learn at CV, but after seeing the line at Comic Con, what do you think the future holds for the Star Wars line?
Honestly, I think the work Hasbro is doing on the product (speaking of Vintage, but applies to CW for the most part as well) is some of the best they've ever done. There is rarely a "stinker" figure in a wave, and some of them (like the upcoming Gamorrean, Ackbar, or even Wicket) look really amazing. Add in the great vehicles and other stuff (AT-AT, Snowspeeder, Cloud Car, Jabba, and more) and the line is really pretty good all around right now. Outside of that, I think the Clone Wars line is really put together pretty nice - and in many ways similar to the vintage line of our youth as far as character selection, "mini rigs", and vehicles.
I suppose a lot will depend on the sales of TVC, but it sometimes seems like this might be the big "last hurrah" for the movie line. If sales really take off, I think that will change a lot, but as we've noticed with our wishlists, we're really scraping the bottom of the barrel for figure choices. Couple that with the fact that it seems "fan figures" like Willrow, Yarna, Ephant, etc. will be few and far between. A lot of our lists have included resculpts from the POTF2 era and beyond, and I think the ROTJ wave is a good example of how much Hasbro can improve on those figures. Although there does seem to be a lot of excitement for the Vintage Collection, at the same time a lot of people aren't happy with the lack of "all-new" figures or the fact that non-OT are appearing on the vintage style - so I'm wondering if TVC will generate the big sales and bring collectors back like Hasbro hopes it will.
Anyways, long story short, although I'd be in for the movie line for as long as it lasts, I think that if we had a good 3 years of the TVC line running in this fashion, I'd be pretty happy. Get a lot of resculpts done (Bespin Han, Hoth Luke, etc.), maybe a new character here or there, and a few more new vehicle/beast re-dos and I think I'd be pretty happy with everything all considered. If it shifted over to one line, Clone Wars-centric, I think I would be ok with that. That being said, I definitely don't "want it to end", and I hope we see a lot more movie product for many years to come.
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I think that the TVC was meant to reboot the realistic-styled figure line.
Now, what I'm trying to figure out is what will Hasbro do with the realistic-styled line once TVC is over in 2+ years? Considering this is THE big line, it's going to be tough for Hasbro to start a new line all over in 2+ years once TVC has had its full run.
Now, althought I hate to think of it, there WILL be a day when there's no other NEW characters to make from the movies. Let's take a look at the current status of ANH - if you notice on RS's wishlist polls, the only NEW characters on there at all are Cantina denizens. Will Hasbro make EVERY single denizen in just one wave? No, and chances are not every patron will be made! Just 5 years after its release, and Hasbro is already running out of characters from ROTS to make.
I'm sure we'll continue to keep getting Darth Vaders with minor changes, but that's a testament that Hasbro's running out of stuff to make. I personally think TCW figure line will not end until the show's over, mainly because there's a stead income of new material to make, but because the movies ended a long time ago, Hasbro has to face the fact that one day they'll run out of stuff. I don't see Hasbro cancelling the realistic-styled line because of poor sales, sales in the 'Star Wars' toy business seem to be great, but rather closng it because they'll be forced to produce the same thing over and over again. And repacks don't seem to help the situation.
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I see no reason that this is even close to ending.
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I agree, really it is all up to Hasbro. Depending on what they want to do with the line, they could keep it going in some capacity for a long time. Even if the movie stuff started drying up at mass retail (which shows no signs of happening right now), I'm sure TRU or someone would love to take the line on as an exclusive. Again, probably not something Hasbro would necessarily do, but we see it done with other lines (or collector line/statues). There's always the online only option (like MOTU Classics), but again, maybe not very likely. Plus, and not that I want to see that, Hasbro is almost to the point - with a few more upgrades - of having nearly perfect versions of all the main characters from the Saga. They could have waves with 3 "greatest hits" style figures and 3 new figures to help cut development costs, and maybe make the line easier to profit (from their standpoint). Again, not something many would like to see, but if we saw the VOTC/VTAC/TVC/Evolutions, etc. figures repackaged alongside new figures, I know there are some I'd pick up again. Anyways, the stuff coming out right now (and on the way) in this line continues to look amazing - and although I know many aren't fans of all the resculpts, I'm pretty psyched about the line right now.
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I tend to agree - the Star Wars license has years to go based on what they are churning out now. Almost everything is top notch. The only chink in the armor I can see is the whole distribution issue over the last 6 months or so. It kind of seemed like there was plenty of opportunity to get stuff out and not a lot being done. That feels to me like a potential indicator that this line isn't the driving force for Hasbro that it used to be. I definitely think that Clone Wars and the upcoming live action TV show will help the longevity of these toys.
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I definitely think that the upcoming live action TV show will help the longevity of these toys.
Yeah, that's been pushed off the schedule indefinitely now. It may never happen.
TCW or Bust!
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I definitely think that the upcoming live action TV show will help the longevity of these toys.
Yeah, that's been pushed off the schedule indefinitely now. It may never happen.
TCW or Bust!
It's on hold, not shut down. I'm sure they will find a way to make it work eventually.
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Let's take a look at the current status of ANH - if you notice on RS's wishlist polls, the only NEW characters on there at all are Cantina denizens.
Why wouldn't I look at the wishlists on JD instead?
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I definitely think that the upcoming live action TV show will help the longevity of these toys.
Yeah, that's been pushed off the schedule indefinitely now. It may never happen.
TCW or Bust!
It's on hold, not shut down. I'm sure they will find a way to make it work eventually.
I hope so... I'm starting to truly hate the Clone Wars. I can't even enjoy watching the show anymore... barely got through Season One and a few episodes of last season before I decided it just wasn't enjoyable for me... and I pretty much hate the figures too; really because of the animated styling. About the only positive for me is that I like most of the vehicles.
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I think the vintage line may be the last big push for the movie product being the main line, at least for a while. I think we are seeing a transition to the television supported product, and that trend seems very likely to continue.
Hasbro is doing some amazing work right now, but some of the best work in the vintage line (argueably) came at the end. I don't think the quality of product is going to spell the end, simply lack of engagement with the consumers.
After months without products, the shelves are getting filled with new product, a new look, and a great variety of products. I think the future of the line in 2012 and beyond is going to be dictated by the next 6 months of sales. The two trends I see as worrisome are:
1) the reappearance of so many recent releases in the legends line being a drag on sales
2) general loss of interest in the hobby, as indicated by lower sales and mirrored in decreased traffic on sites like this.
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Yeah, I think the line could go indefinitely, depending on what they want to do with it (exclusive to a store, online, or just continue at mass retail as is) - but a lot depends on how this Vintage Collection does. Aside from maybe a lack of all-new characters, this is truly an effort of a "collector line" by Hasbro - with the quality of the figures, the packaging of course, as well as some of the nostalgic exclusives this year. I think we'll get a big push with this line (for at least two years), and depending on sales, then we'll see. Honestly, they could cover most to all of the needed resculpts and a few new characters in that time, if planned well. Then, maybe we'll see a shift to just CW (or live action if it happens) television stuff. The CW is definitely planned for 5 seasons, but at Celebration it sounded like "as long as it is successful", so who knows how long it will go. Again, I don't want to see the movie stuff end anytime soon, but it will be interesting to see if this Vintage Collection is really "bringing collectors back" or not. It would be interesting to hear even from those here who have sort of left the Hasbro stuff in the past few years, and if they've come back for this line.
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For what it's worth, I've seen Vintage selling like crazy at all retailers, while most of Clone Wars and Legends sit.
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as long as the cw cartoon series is still going strong and kids are into it, i don't see an end in sight for the sw lines at all, im sure us as collectors may end up dealing with alot of "legends" lines unfortunatley and i do think that if hasbro would continue with the comic/eu charecters the line would not only have greater sales but infinite possibilities for future figures.....the comic packs and the wave with tfu shaak ti & k'khurk are testament to that....
on a side note i completley despise the cw animated series, not only because the animated figures are not really what im into, but because they destroyed the "republic commando" novel series by karen traviss, with bs mando pascifist garbage...not to mention that totaly nullifies the fett history/leagacy.... but that another conversation. just my 2 cents.