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The Prequel Trilogy / Re: episode 3 spoilers perhaps ?
« on: May 12, 2003, 10:56 PM »
as well as rick confirmed the clone troopers will have a new look in episode 3  as super arc commandos  . heres an intresting theory of who erased kamino from the jedi files ....i found this real intresting : Who Done It and Why: The Search for Kamino
 

In these days where every infrequent spoiler report is more unbelievable than the last, there's not much to fill the time with, for your typical spoilerhead - except speculation. I have heard some say that it's a lost art. It may be. I know that many, including myself, thrive on facts; hard, proven data. But when those facts just aren't there, you've got to make good with what you've got. Enter speculation.

Lucas has said quite a bit about Episode III. He's told us that most of what we need to know to solve the big "mysteries" of the Star Wars universe is already out there. We just have to put it together. By reading between the lines in a lot of his quotes, I believe it's quite possible to do just that. Certain aspects of the universe, like disappearing Jedi and, the focus of this editorial, exactly who erased Kamino from the Jedi library, begin to become clear.

So what do I refer to? How can I claim to know who erased the files from the single quote of "Someone in the Jedi order has been hiding this whole system from the Jedi Archives."? Well, simple answer, I can't. Until May 2005, George could always pull a "Obi-Wan is your father" on us, no matter what the leaked script in our hands says. But from what we have at our disposal at this moment in time, I submit the following theory:

 



Anakin did it.





Okay, maybe you're thinking it's a little out there. From my experiences peddling this theory from message board to message board, the majority of people that I've mentioned this to have basically called me crazy. That I was really reaching. And then there's the other population, though a very small minority, that have thought this from day one of viewing AOTC. Or, at the least, they believe the theory now. If you're in that small minority, I guess I don't have to convince you of anything. But if you're skeptical, read on. You might luck out and get persuaded like some other prior non-believers.

First off, Lucas said that "someone IN the Jedi order HAS BEEN HIDING Kamino…" The 'in' and 'has been hiding' infer that the perpetrator is still in the Jedi Order. Up until a month or so ago, if you asked me who erased the Kamino file, I would've said "Dooku. Duh." Well, Dooku hasn't been a Jedi for ten years. So that rules him out. Since Mace, Yoda, Ki-Adi, Plo, etc. are NOT traitors, that doesn't leave many candidates. Specifically, it leaves Anakin. Now, that's certainly not my entire proof. As I said before, a lot of this theory stems from my interpretation of Lucas's own quotes. If you read through Lucas Says, located at http://www.episode-x.com/episode3/lucassays, specifically, the section regarding Palpatine's Influence on Anakin, you'll get an idea where I'm going. Here are Lucas's words, reproduced from that section:

TPM DVD Commentary:
GL: There's a very subtle thing going on here through the next two movies of Palpatine's involvement with Anakin which isn't on screen, it's all sort of hinted at.

AOTC DVD Commentary:
GL: Here with Obi-Wan we get a little sense that Anakin has some relationship with Palpatine and that he likes Palpatine. In the last film we set up the fact that Palpatine was gonna watch after Anakin.
GL: I had all these hints that Palpatine had been helping Anakin, but I needed an explicit scene that actually spelled it out and where you could see that some of Anakin's dialogue later on has come from Palpatine.
GL: So we have this little picnic where Anakin brings out the uncomfortable subject of previous boyfriends which boys have a tendency to do, and then we get into this political discussion which allows us to get a little insight into Anakin and Palpatine's influence over Anakin and some of his thought process.



As you can see, Lucas seems to like to talk about how much Anakin and Palpatine get along. We can see that Palpatine has Anakin thinking dictatorship already. We know that Palpatine has been offering him guidance. We can hear Palpatine's dialogue being recycled and coming out of Anakin's mouth. And most importantly, we know (at least, most of us do) that Palpatine is Darth Sidious.

Darth Sidious, Palpatine, is the puppet master. He's pulling all the strings, setting everything up, foreseeing everything (well, almost). Everything that has transpired has done so according to his design. At the end of TPM, when he suddenly found himself apprentice-less, he needed a new one to do the dirty work for him. As his plan was already set in motion, he needed someone pre-trained in the ways of the Force that he could teach the Dark Side to rather easily. As such, he chose, and turned, a Jedi in the form of Count Dooku. However, from the line "We will watch your career with great interest.", and the fact that ten years later in Attack of the Clones we find out that Palpatine has been guiding Anakin (most likely unbeknownst to the Jedi Council), it's not hard to believe that Palpatine was already eyeing Anakin as early as the Phantom Menace as his next apprentice.

Where does that put us? We know that Palpatine likes Anakin, and vice-versa. That doesn't give Anakin much of a reason to erase some files. But listen again to Anakin's dialogue about or directly to Palpatine in Episode II. "The Chancellor doesn't appear to be corrupt.", "I think he's a good man.", "Your guidance, more than my patience." It's quite clear that Anakin not only likes Palpatine, but trusts him a lot.

So let's speculate. What if Palpatine told Anakin that there existed a planet Kamino, and, for whatever reason (insert reason here), it'd be best for the galaxy if all knowledge of that planet was lost. Who knows what reason he might give. I've yet to come with a really good reason that would convince Anakin that it really was a good idea to erase the files, but that certainly doesn't mean that George couldn't come up with one. Anyway, Anakin trusts Palpatine. He buys into this "good of the galaxy" line that Palpatine is feeding him, and when he gets a few free minutes, he heads up to Jocasta's pad and hits the delete key a few times.



Now let me set something straight here: I am in no means implying that Anakin is a bad guy or a traitor in Episode II. He may have made a bad decision in the Tusken camp, but we can tell from the confession scene after that that he's a Jedi - he knows he's better than that. Point being, he's TRYING to be a great Jedi. He's still a good guy. If my theory is true, then Anakin erased the files because Palpatine, the SUPREME CHANCELLOR of the Republic, the person everyone in the galaxy should trust implicitly to know what's best for the Republic, asked him to. Remember I said earlier that Palpatine somehow convinced Anakin that erasing the file was for the GOOD of the galaxy. Anakin is still a good guy - he just trusts the wrong person.

Now, from experience writing this theory all over the place, I anticipate a lot of the questions you're going to have about my theory. So let me try and answer them now.

"The files were erased when the clones were ordered - ten years ago. Anakin was only nine. He couldn't have done it then."

Where does it say that the files were erased when the clones were ordered? No where, of course, but this is a common assumption. And we all know what happens when you assume… Think about this: Kamino is far away from Coruscant. It's 12 parsecs south of the Rishi Maze, beyond the Outer Rim. It's far enough away that the transmission from Obi-Wan to the Old Folks Home is very fuzzy and jumpy. Yoda's never heard of it. The very haughty Jocasta Nu has never heard of it. Only the well traveled Dexter even knows about it. Since no one would have even the slightest inkling of knowledge about the clones, and there's nothing else of interest going on there, there's no reason for anyone to want to look up Kamino… ever. The only time it would need to be erased is when someone IS going to be looking for it. Since Palpatine is practically omnipotent in this whole thing, he KNOWS when the Jedi are going to be looking for a planet called Kamino. Only then does it need to be erased (or does it? We'll get to that in a second). Therefore, the file could have been erased at any time over the ten years. Anakin could have done it, theoretically, the day before Episode II starts.



"If Anakin thought he was erasing the file for the good of the galaxy, why didn't he speak up when Obi-Wan started talking about strange happenings on some planet called Kamino?"

Well, as my good friend CrazyOldJedi pointed out, Obi-Wan doesn't hear the name Kamino until he talks to Dexter - and that scene is directly AFTER Anakin and Padme leave for Naboo to fall in love. Convenient, no? And when Obi-Wan and Anakin meet up again later, while tied to poles, they don't exactly have much time for "so, what have you been up to?" conversations.

"Oh come on - what about the two years between Episode II and Episode III? Anakin never heard about Kamino in that span?"

Well, there's a couple of ways I can think to explain that. First reason: who cares what happens off screen - it's EU! :P

The real answer I have for this may be a bit convoluted, but it's certainly possible. What if, when Palpatine convinced Anakin to erase the files, he also told him not to tell the Jedi? Now, admittedly, this should normally have raised a red flag in Anakin's mind that maybe the Chancellor's not all he's cracked up to be. BUT, suppose he told Anakin that there was a traitor in the Jedi's midst? Suppose he said he had evidence that a Council member was a Sith, and that informing the Jedi Council of this erasure could tip said Council member off that he/she was found out, or that informing the Jedi Council could jeopardize the good reasons behind erasing the file in the first place. Or maybe he told Anakin exactly what Yoda told Obi-Wan and Mace - that the Jedi were just not functioning correctly anymore. That they couldn't be trusted to handle the situation, so he was entrusting this erasure task to him.



Anyway, long story short, make up your own reason. There's plenty of reasons why he might not have told the Jedi. I listed but a few. I'm sure that, if George takes this route, he'll come up with yet another, better reason.

"Yoda says that only a Jedi could've erased the files; Anakin is only a Padawan learner. So how could he have done it?"

This has got to be one of the most asked questions about this theory. But let me ask you back - why would there be some way to erase the files that only full Jedi know of? Theoretically, the Jedi DO NOT want the files erased. It contains millenia of knowledge. So why, upon completion of the trials would they say to a new Jedi "Psst - if you go here and do this, you can delete files! But don't do it ever." Obvious answer: they wouldn't.

So, it's not just some secret that only full Jedi know. That would make no sense. That leaves us with two options. One, there is no protection on the files. The Jedi simply know that, since only people associated with the Jedi order ("Only a Jedi could've erased those files") have access to the files in the first place, and since the Jedi are the GOOD guys, none of them would be going around erasing files. So they don't worry about precautions, and erasing files really is as easy as hitting the delete key a couple times. Perhaps another sign that the Jedi have become too confident? But I digress.

The second possible explanation is that there is indeed some sort of security on the files. This seems to be the most likely option, seeing as Obi-Wan says "But Master Yoda, who could empty information from the archives, that's IMPOSSIBLE isn't it?" Thus, it would take some sort of hacking into the system to delete files. And what person associated with the Jedi order do we know who's built a protocol droid and a podracer - someone obviously very adept at technology? Hmm...

Also, just to clarify what I stated above, although Yoda says that only a Jedi could've erased the files, I FULLY believe that that statement was just in reference to the fact that only Jedi are allowed to go into the libary in the first place. I think this line was just there to tell us that Sidious couldn't have done it (and perhaps to falsely throw us in suspicion of Dooku...), cause he ain't no Jedi. And if you watch the library scene in AOTC, you see a youngling, about ten years old, wandering free in the background. Obviously, you don't have to be a full Jedi to have access to the library. Anakin, as a Padawan learner, DEFINITELY has the necessary access.

"I don't buy this - George has to make the traitor a surprise, and everyone knows that Anakin's a traitor."

Why is Anakin being the file eraser not a surprise? In fact, I guarantee you it would be, since 90% of the people that read my theory on message boards told me that I was crazy and that they had never in a million years ever thought that that could be possible. That sounds like a surprise to me.

Also, you have to remember that George is making these movies to be viewed in chronological order. To the people watching the films for the first time, with no knowledge of Darth Vader and Anakin going bad will be quite surprised to learn that sweet little innocent Anakin was "betraying" the Jedi even before Episode II!

If you have further questions concerning the validity of my theory, please send them to vandaronas@hotmail.com and I'll see if I can BS an answer. :P

Finally, I'd like to discuss exactly WHY the file was erased in the first place. It may seem like a dumb question at first. It was erased, of course, to hide Kamino! But think about Palpatine's plan: he wanted the Jedi to discover the clones, and to use the clones, so that it made them look responsible for them. It's most likely one of the ways he's going to turn the general populace of the galaxy against the Jedi - because they were responsible for the Clone Wars. But for that to be the case, like I said, the Jedi have to discover Kamino. So how does hiding it from them do Palpatine any good?

Palpatine claims that everything has proceeded as he has foreseen/planned. Therefore, he foresaw that the Jedi would have to use an alternate source of info to identify the dart since their archives were ill-equipped to do so. He foresaw that that source would also give them coordinates of the planet. Therefore, he felt comfortable in deleting the file, since he knew that the Jedi would still be able to get there without it.



But still, either way, what WAS the purpose of deleting the file? With or without it, the Jedi were going to get to Kamino. Well, for one, deleting the file creates a sense of mystery. Obi-Wan was perplexed by it's absence from the archives - and it made him want to get to Kamino even more. The fact that it was erased was, to him, a sign that someone didn't want him there - so he better get there. Not only that, but it created an air of mistrust among the Jedi. "Only a Jedi could've erased those files." If the Jedi are busy searching for a rat in their system when the "rat" is right under their noses (Anakin), it takes their attention away from the larger goings on in the galaxy. Mainly, the Sith rising to power.

Also, another possible explanation for why the file is erased is that perhaps Palpatine wanted to test Anakin's allegiance. For years, he'd been guiding him, helping him out, etc. He knew that Anakin trusted him, but he wanted to, quote end quote "test the water." Can Anakin really go against his Master's? Will he? Asking Anakin to do this, and then him actually doing it, proves to Palpatine that Anakin trusts him implicitly, and is willing to 'do his bidding.'

And we all know how that turns out.

In conclusion, I'd like to say that I, personally, really like this theory. It offers a twist on what is probably considered a given (that Dooku did it); it makes Anakin's character more complex, as, for whatever reason, he chose to go with Palpatine's word over the Jedi; and it makes the relationship between Anakin and Palpatine just that much COOLER. Think about Return of the Jedi. "I MUST obey my Master." That's YEARS of experience talking. Not just since he joined the dark side either, but with this theory, it could be argued that Palpatine was his Master since before Episode II - possibly even since the end of Episode I - which means that there were even more years than the many we already knew about of "Palpatine is Good" thoughts that Anakin had to overcome in order to save his son from the evil Emperor. And that's a damn cool thought. :D

 
On page 25, a reporter brought up the character Jar Jar Binks and how he added silly comedy to Episode I and how he added drama to Episode II. The reporter then asked what does he add to Episode III and what happens to him. Lucas commented that Jar Jar would not die on screen in the film or not even die at all.
He said that he created the character to add to the story, not to be created to then be killed at the end. The reporter then asked why Jar Jar isn't in the original trilogy. Lucas said that Episode III will explain everything that needs to be explained.

woudn't this make a good twist ?

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The Prequel Trilogy / episode 3 spoilers perhaps ?
« on: May 12, 2003, 02:08 PM »
The Clone Wars end at the beginning of the film, and the rest of the movie will be very small and personal & centered around obi-wan, anakin & padme as usual .

anakins  jealousy and anger towards Obi-Wan and blaming everyone else for his inability to be as powerful as he wants to be, which he hears that he will be, so here he sort of lays out his ambititon and you'll see later on his ambition and his dialogue here is the same as Dooku's. He says "I will become more powerful than every Jedi." And you'll hear later on Dooku will say "I have become more powerful than any Jedi." So you're going start to see everyboy saying the same thing. And Dooku is kind of the fallen Jedi who was converted to the Dark Side because the other Sith Lord didn't have time to start from scratch, and so we can see that that's where this is going to lead which is that it is possible for a Jedi to be converted. It is possible for a Jedi to want to become more powerful, and control things. Because of that, and because he was unwilling to let go of his mother, because he was so attached to her, he committed this terrible revenge on the Tusken Raiders.

Palpatine  will influence anakin in turning agaist  obi wan telling him that obi wan is trying to keep him from becoming a great jedi &  is reponsible for hiding padme from him .

Padme dies after giving birth to luke & leia due to injuries suffered.

episode 3 will revisit darth vaders ship , degobah & the cantina on tatooin where we will see chewbaca again


The scene where Anakin does actually become Vader is pretty good. I mean, I like it. It's a little in the vocabulary of a ... I don't know how much I want to give away ... but it's in the vocabulary of a time - of the 1930s and 1940s. It's a pretty neat little thing, I think, and hopefully it's going to work GL


Boba will be in Episode III, but his role definitely won't be larger. He's in a transition period of becoming a bounty hunter. The next film takes place two or three years later, so Boba would only be 13 and still wouldn't fit the suit.  GL

Anakins memory will be erased and so will R2 & c-3po's memorys. So, they don't remember anything from the first trilogy. I'm telling you something from Episode 3, but I shouldn't be telling you that, but I think most of the fans already know that.  GL

tarkin should be present in episode 3  helping palpatine  into  power.

someone in the Jedi order has been hiding this whole system from the Jedi Archives. It does come out eventually in the next movie exactly what's behind all this. I wanted to have it there in this movie but not so strongly that you asked a lot of questions about who is the one that erased the tapes and who started the army and how all that works because it's something that unfortunately doesn't get revealed until the third film.  (i think its mace windu ..call it a gut feeling ..if you watch the movies & notice his responses & reactions you'll catch on to what im talking about )


we will only see bio vader in the last 10 min of the movie right after anakin falls into a lava pit  after his fight with obi wan

dooku will have his own agenda in episode 3 with  mace windu

There are some, if I can fit them in, but I won't say who they are. Some key characters are scheduled to be fit in if I can make it work. They are not so integral to the story--it's really done to say, 'Oh look, there's so-and-so.' GL  this will tell you that chewbaca will have but breif cameo & will in no way shape or form make a diffrence in the movie

Anakin completing his training at the mercy of Sidious


maybe some of this is true  who know's but i cant wait to se the finished product of the final episode of george lucas trilogy


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