JediDefender.com Forums
Multimedia => The Prequel Trilogy => Topic started by: Scott on January 17, 2003, 09:14 AM
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BEN Hmm. To protect you both from the Emperor, you were hidden from your father when you were born. The Emperor knew, as I did, if Anakin were to have any offspring, they would be a threat to him. That is the reason why your sister remains safely anonymous.
Let's say Luke and Leia are not born yet, however it is known by Palpatine that Padme is pregnant. She is carrying Anakin's offspring which have the potential to be very powerful in the use of the Force.
The SECOND DRAFT of the Adventures of Starkiller dated January 28, 1975 contains the original prophesy of the one who will bring balance to the force.
"...And in the time of greatest despair there shall come a savior, and he shall be known as: THE SON OF THE SUNS."
Journal of the Whills, 3:127
Lucas' original idea of the Star Wars Saga was almost a Biblical type book The Journal of Whills in which a legendary character The Son of the Sons will be born and save the galaxy...much like Jesus saved the world from sin according to Christian religion. The Son of the Suns was heard being chanted in both The Phantom Menace and Return of the Jedi, during the celebration scenes, so it is an official part of canon in the Star Wars Saga. OK, with me so far?
There are couple of ways to go with this, is the Son of the Suns Luke??? Or is it the Chosen One, Anakin? So does The Son of the Suns = The Chosen One. Or are the two prophecies different. Looking at them, it appears to be so, if the Son of the Suns prophesy is as stated and the Chosen One stating the One who will bring balance to the Force. Luke probably is the Savior, the Son of the Suns and Anakin is the Chosen One, the bringer of Balance
So, here is my idea, Luke and Leia are born during the movie, Palpatine senses a threat and his first act as Emperor of the Galaxy is to kill all offspring on Naboo say, much like Herod of the book Matthew 2nd Chapter (http://bible.gospelcom.net/cgi-bin/bible?passage=MATT+2&language=english&version=NIV&showfn=on&showxref=on) does to the children of Bethlehem, kills everyone under the age of 2. This would go a long way to cementing the evilness of the Empire.
Or if the Twins were born before the Start of Episode III, Luke may very well be in training to be a Jedi
QUI-GON : I'm afraid not. Had he been born in the Republic, we would have identified him early, and he would have become Jedi
So perhaps Palpatine's first act will be to wipe out all of the Padawans in the Jedi Temple, an known threat to the Empire. Somehow, perhaps through the plucky Senator Jar Jar, Obi-Wan/Padme are tipped off to the threat and Luke and Leia are whisked away from the temple before Vader comes in and slaughters the children.
It would not be the first time in the prequels that Biblical paralells are drawn, Anakin's Immaculate conception, the freeing of Slaves etc.
Will we see Palpatine slaughtering children ala Herod?
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Very interesting points. I have been wondering as have probably alot of us what would the act be that turns Anakin to Vader, what happens to Padme, Luke and Leia.
Is there a possability that Anakin turns completely to the dark side because of the children? Something like the Jedi taking the children or hiding Padme from him or possably beleiving the Jedi order are responsible for her death wether it actually takes place or not.
Also with the padawans I think that you are on the right path. I also think that Palppy or the emperor at that time will destroy all the Padawans I don't know if it will be a seperat act or if the Jedi temple and all inside will be wiped out. I am curious to see if all the Jedi are rounded up to be destroyed or if they are reduced in numbers from the clone wars to the point that there is a large gap between Jedi and padawans so that none are ready to take there place as Jedi.
Also with reguards to a round up. Where does Obi wan fit in. People talk about Yoda escaping but how does Obi wan escape and his presence not sought out. I would think that either Anakin lets him live( he is like my father) or Obi slips out early one after the twins are born?
Any thoughts.
I also see where you are going with the biblical senarios and it will be intersteing to see played out. I think that Lucas is using that as an undertone to explain the force in the OT until the mideclorians pop up in EP1.
I hope he answers all the question in EP3
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now there is a tought... very sad, :'(very dark.. I can hear dramatic music play now ... :-\
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to ocb.....I don't think Luke could be already in training to be a jedi. he doesn't know of the force, jedi, or anything until episode IV, when he first meets Obi wan. but i do agree with the way they might go about killing the padawans.
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Good theory Scott, but not Jesus, Moses. Sorry I cannot recall the specific book in the bible, but an entertaining version of it can be found in the recent cartoon video Prince of Egypt which is of course the story of Moses.
As a brief summary, Pharoah went and took all the young male children and threw them to the crocodiles. I suspect Lucas will be more subtle than that, but perhaps not. Regardless, it will not be pretty.
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No, I was thinking more along the lines of the Messiah and King Herod killing all the babies of Bethlehem, Moses is something different :)
And Luke doesn't need to be a trained Jedi, everyone knows how powerful he is with the force...cause he was identified early and was under the care of the Jedi
The Escape to Egypt
13When they had gone, an angel of the Lord appeared to Joseph in a dream. "Get up," he said, "take the child and his mother and escape to Egypt. Stay there until I tell you, for Herod is going to search for the child to kill him." 14So he got up, took the child and his mother during the night and left for Egypt, 15where he stayed until the death of Herod. And so was fulfilled what the Lord had said through the prophet: "Out of Egypt I called my son."[6]
16When Herod realized that he had been outwitted by the Magi, he was furious, and he gave orders to kill all the boys in Bethlehem and its vicinity who were two years old and under, in accordance with the time he had learned from the Magi.
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Again with Luke was raised by Owen and Beru Lars, not the Jedi. He knew nothing of the force until he was older.
Empire Strikes Back
Yoda : "No, he is too old to begin the training"
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I guess the gray area here pappy is that we don't know how old Luke was when Obi-Wan brought Luke to Owen and Beru, could have been 2, could have been 1
We also do not know how young Jedi begin their training, might be soon after birth to lessen the blow of family removal from the original parents
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I just suddenly realised, If we do see the birth of the twins, which I hope we do, we'll have to put up with Padme being fat for most of the film! I really don't think stretch marks will be too flatering in a gold bikini!
Damn!
Anyway I reakon George will wimp out and have the Jedi temple being blown up. How good would it be though if the young padawns i.e. teenagers, were trying to defend the younglings 6/7 year olds. They almost hold their own and they're all really brave, even the younglings do well till a bounty hunter or Anakin enters and tips the scales away from them.
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I would not be surprised if the children are even mentioned. But do we really want to see little padawans being killed? I know I don't. It's a PG film and not even PG-13. Imagine if big burly Vader comes through the temple hackin' lil padawans. That would not be cool. At least not for family audiences. I doubt even seeing clones shooting and hitting padawan kids.
So, about the only thing Lucas could show is the Temple being destroyed from a far off angle. Or maybe, maybe show a group shot of the kids and then cut to the Temple being incinerated aka Tarkin right before the Death Star is destroyed.
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Kill the padawans, Kill KILL!!!!!
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I would not be surprised if the children are even mentioned. But do we really want to see little padawans being killed? I know I don't. It's a PG film and not even PG-13. Imagine if big burly Vader comes through the temple hackin' lil padawans. That would not be cool. At least not for family audiences. I doubt even seeing clones shooting and hitting padawan kids.
So, about the only thing Lucas could show is the Temple being destroyed from a far off angle. Or maybe, maybe show a group shot of the kids and then cut to the Temple being incinerated aka Tarkin right before the Death Star is destroyed.
I agree, I don't think we will see padawans getting killed. I don't even think we will see them in any battle scenes if at all.
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your both probably right. It's just I watched T3, which I found surprisingly good by-the-way, and just thought that when she tracked and gunned down those kids, without the camera really showing too much, was really cool. It was dark, and gritty but not grotesque, and that film was only rated a 12 in England.
And we have to remember that this is the darkest of the films, even in a new hope, we see the burning skeletons of Owen and Beru. Maybe, just maybe he'll show some padawans dying, to help set the mood of the piece.
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Yes we see charred skeletons, but those are adults. And old ones at that. There is definitely a taboo to showing children getting killed in movies. I was really surprised that Anakin said he killed the children in the Tusken camp. So if the Padawans are slaughtered (which I guess they'll have to be) I'm sure it will either be an exploding temple implying their demise, or something that is revealed in the dialogue after the fact.
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Let a boy dream Lando. Do you think an adult rated star wars would ruin the magic or do you think it would add a little something to the fight scenes.
I guess it would loose something.
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Yeah I don't think they will be showing anything too dramatic and will probably just blow up the temple...sad thing though :'( Doesn't sound like Luke and Leia will be toddlers, probably just being born so my whole arguement is moot...I think it is sorta cool though
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What do you think is going to happen to the young Padawans from Yoda's classroom in AOTC during Episode III? :-\
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Yeah somethign does have to happen to them chris, here is my theory and I merged your topic with mine ;)
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I should have examined the thread a bit better before posting.
I think they will be slaughtered and found dead like the Jawas. Maybe they'll show a small fight and a little one fighting his best and finally being killed.
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That's what I'm on about :) a few younglings trying there best against bosk or IG88 or a young boba, but finally being cut down.
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Lucas has not shown any graphic deaths at all. Even the SE changed some of the blaster deaths to be less graphic and Solo shot 2nd to make him more "family friendly". They may show the padawans fighting bravely before the temple was blown up (but seen from a distance on the outside), but they will not show a padawan dying, nor do I believe they will show one of their dead bodies afterwards (like a pile of Jawas in ANH).
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Recent chats reveal the fate of the Padawans will be dealt with :-*
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Maybe Vader will hack their heads off then? Just kidding.
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Latest Spoiler...
Luke and Leia are too little to be Youngling...But Ani does the deed
- When Obi-Wan returns to Coruscant, he meets up with Yoda and must come to terms with what Anakin has been up to while he was away. The most telling of evidence is proof that Anakin led a raid on the temple with clonetroopers and eliminated the Younglings and any Jedi trying to protect them.
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I'm glad we're not going to be seeing a family-friendly Vader for the new millenium. Anakin is truly turning into a villain. Bravo.
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Yeah I was wondering if Lucas would even address this topic. I can't wait for Kenobi to kick Anakin's bootie for this. You just can't have the Chosen One going around killing young Padawans. That #$%^ has to stop!
Seriously, Anakin is going to whip up an impressive serial killing spree body count in his flick. He kills Dooku, Windu, Padme, and even Padawans. To think it all started in the dessert with Tusken Raiders. Padme should have a different point of view of her loverboy in Ep 3!
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Stupid kids, I can't think for God's sake. That's it, I'mjoining the dark side. I'm leaving you all to live3 a life of evil! Good ridence!
Padme: "You need to pay child support then!"
"No I don't" *force choke*
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This scene was very well done and got the best reaction of any of the Anakin is Darth scenes...well done
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This scene was very well done and got the best reaction of any of the Anakin is Darth scenes...well done
I'm not afraid to admit, I got a little misty when that little guy said "Master Skywalker, there are too many of them what are we going to do" and then Anakin lights up his Saber.
Poor little Younglings... :'(
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It almost grossed me out since the little kid was soooo cute. Not the kid of course but the fact that Anakin is going to kill them. That's why it is nice to see Kenobi slice off his Annie's legs at the end of the film and to watch him burn. That's what you get for killing younglings!
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To think it all started in the dessert with Tusken Raiders.
When did Anakin have dessert with Tusken Raiders? Was it apple pie? Ice cream sundaes? Italian pastries?
:D
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Couldn't care less...
All of the Jedi never connected with me, apart from Obi-Wan.
Showing Vader being evil by letting him kill defenseless kids, okay.
Showing Vader being a powerfull Sith by letting him kill defenseles kids, bad.
It makes Vader a wimp, only brave enough to go after little ones, and leaving the full Jedi Masters to be exterminated by others.
THAT IS NOT DARTH VADER! >:(
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THAT IS NOT DARTH VADER!
You see, you're still not getting the Prequels. The whole point of them was to change our perception of the originals. Anyway, Vader always went after unarmed people (Antilles) and wimps (Motti). Most "evil" people are cowards at heart.
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Also, you can see him killing armed adult jedi in the hologram recording.
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one of those holograms is actuall Cin Drallig....Nic Gillard's character.
TND
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In truth, the only thing that I felt was missing from ROTS was a small scene (30 seconds) with Anikin in the temple killing a few adult Jedi. I would have love to see him wiping them out with no problem, showing us how strong the dark side has made him.
I think that the hologram didn't show enough.
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In truth, the only thing that I felt was missing from ROTS was a small scene (30 seconds) with Anikin in the temple killing a few adult Jedi. I would have love to see him wiping them out with no problem, showing us how strong the dark side has made him.
I think that the hologram didn't show enough.
You're almost right. It's not about what we actually see. It's about what we can imagine. In the hologram scene I think we needed a few beats of watching Obi-wan's reaction to the slaughter. That would have been very powerful on many levels.
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That's the only part of the movie that didn't work for me. There's no horrific realization on Obi Wan's part, just understated disappointment it felt like, and for some reason they blaze through it.
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You just love reviving year or two year old post. Don't ya?
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You just love reviving year or two year old post. Don't ya?
yes, yes i do.
Generally no one else is very pleased by it, especially when you aren't adding anything of value to the conversation.
Just a tip.