JediDefender.com Forums

Collectibles => The Vintage Collection => Topic started by: Brian on February 20, 2009, 12:19 PM

Title: How Much is Too Much?
Post by: Brian on February 20, 2009, 12:19 PM
It seems like, for the most part, everyone was pretty happy with what Hasbro had to show at Toy Fair.  Whether it was in the display room, or in their presentation for the year, it does look like the basic figure line (and everything that accompanies it) has a lot of neat stuff on the way.  I'm sure there are still more surprises to come along, and we'll see even more at SDCC.  That said, the other big topic really seems to be the pricing.

We've all seen it coming, or even starting at retail already, but it seems like lines all around are getting more and more expensive.  Eight dollar basic figures seems to be the norm for now, and even Galactic Heroes 2 packs are hitting that price now.  Battle packs seem to be getting less figures for a higher price, and now it seems like any vehicle larger than the "starfighter $20/$25" assortment is going to cost at least $60.  I'm afraid to see what exclusive vehicles will run now.  That seems to be the only avenue for OT vehicles right now, and I wonder what something like Wedge's X-Wing will run.  We've also seen increases in the comic packs and pretty much everything else SW-related (although I think its happening in most other lines as well).

Anyways, my point is, how much is too much?  With the economy what it is, people seem to have a lot less to spend on this type of thing (non-necessity, hobby-type stuff).  Hasbro's release pace certainly hasn't slowed down any since the ROTS days, although we continue to see the back half of the year being quite heavy once again.  I'll admit that I'm someone that usually buys most of the basic figure related stuff, but I'm also not a completist (although I have been since Build a Droid started I guess).  We now have three lines running (TLC, CW, Legends), and that's just the figures.  I couldn't imagine trying to keep up with everything as completists do.  Anyways, have any of you reached your breaking point?  Are you dropping lines, or just becoming more selective?  Its tough for me to collect anything but SW anymore, since it is such an expensive hobby on its own (not even getting into anything considered "high end") just grabbing Hasbro's offerings.  It sort of reminds me of when I used to collect sports cards.  We kept getting less cards per pack, prices were going up, there were more and more "lines" of cards out there - and pretty soon I just quit.  I didn't follow that market after that, but I think it sort of changed/crashed a short time later - at least for awhile.  Do you think collecting is headed that way too?  Do we need to have a breaking point to streamline the products again?
Title: Re: How Much is Too Much?
Post by: GrandMoffNick on February 20, 2009, 12:44 PM
I think this is such a hard question to answer. I want to say I will cut down on what I buy due to price increase, but that's a lot easier to say than to due when the product is in your hands. Even if everyone doesn't keep buying everything, I think enough people will be buying stuff from each line that its hard to see the "TOO MUCH" threshold being reached soon to me. I think the prices coming down and quantity we see in ie a BP going back up will coincide with the economy as opposed to something we as collectors do ourselves.

I just reread what I typed and I don't think I made any sense.
Title: Re: How Much is Too Much?
Post by: Keonobi on February 20, 2009, 12:52 PM
I think this could be a pivotal year for Hasbro.  Last year Star Wars was the best brand in toys, so I'm sure it was very profitable.  But this year there isn't a movie/tv show being released, so there isn't that level of demand built in, and with the economy soured, I think this could be a tough year for a price increase.  We may find that Hasbro was too ambitious with their price increase, and their profits fall for the year.  If that's the case I think we will see some lines cut, we might be seeing the beginnings of that with Mighty Muggs being moved to a TRU exclusive by years end.

So I don't think we're at the point where as a community Star Wars buyers (kids & collectors) have had too much, in terms of price increases, but I think we're fast approaching that breaking point.  Unfortunately with the lag times involved with production and marketing, we likely won't find out that Hasbro has reached that point until 6-12 months after the fact.  I think what should be telling is how well the bigger ticket items do this coming Christmas season.  If there are lot of the Juggernauts sitting on shelves, I think that's a pretty good sign the Hasbro priced themselves out of a good market, as parents/collectors focused on the more affordable items (small vehicles, battlepacks) and those who would usually buy battle packs or vehicles get a couple figures instead.
Title: Re: How Much is Too Much?
Post by: David on February 20, 2009, 01:51 PM
Target has reached $9.52 after tax, and that's too much for me.
Title: Re: How Much is Too Much?
Post by: Rob on February 20, 2009, 03:06 PM
I'm not paying any more than $7.99 + tax.  I'll start passing on new figures and picking them up loose at toy shows.

Mostly on principal.
Title: Re: How Much is Too Much?
Post by: CHEWIE on February 20, 2009, 03:19 PM
I've become more selective - very few repacks and very few clone wars stuff for me. 

Really, if it won't work out in one of my dioramas, or for photonovel/customizing stuff, I don't have any interest in it.  That's pretty much what has kept me in the hobby for the past few years anyway.
Title: Re: How Much is Too Much?
Post by: Matt_Fury on February 20, 2009, 03:33 PM
I started getting more selective a few years ago especially when I started buying higher end items like the MR Sabers, RAH Vader, etc.

I'm not happy that a figure if made two years ago was $6 and that same class of figure is now $8, but I rationalize that figures like the new Obi-wan have much better articulation, better likenesses, etc.

I am definitely glad I'm not a completist anymore (or need one carded and one loose).
Title: Re: How Much is Too Much?
Post by: Rob on February 20, 2009, 03:52 PM
I am definitely glad I'm not a completist anymore (or need one carded and one loose).

Same here, but I was thinking the other day about how $9.00 figures represent a 80% jump in prices since 2005.  If they get to $10, it'll be the same amount of money that I used to spend to buy two of everything just to get one.
Title: Re: How Much is Too Much?
Post by: JDH1173 on February 20, 2009, 04:10 PM
I know that I have become very selective about what I'm buying right now.  I'll have the item in my hand, think about it again and usually put it back.  Army building is just a fond memory now.  I'm still stopping and looking, but buying much less. :'(
Title: Re: How Much is Too Much?
Post by: Dressel Rebel on February 20, 2009, 04:30 PM
I'm about at my limit with the price per figure.  And it's not for lack of funds.  It's principle.

I've been looking at Wioslea, Pons Limbic and Dice Ibegon on HTS.com for 3 days and still haven't coughed up the 7.99 plus shipping for them.  And I haven't seen them in stores yet.

2 years ago I'd have ordered them in an instant.
Title: Re: How Much is Too Much?
Post by: GrandMoffNick on February 20, 2009, 04:59 PM
I'm not going to say that not buying at $9+ a piece on principle doesn't have validity, but I get way too much enjoyment out of the collecting to stop for that reason. I lose out more on my happiness by not buying for principle than what I would gain in my principles if I didn't buy.
Title: Re: How Much is Too Much?
Post by: P-Siddy on February 20, 2009, 08:11 PM
I think the prices are getting a bit ridiculous, considering GI Joes are $6.99 at a Target where SW is a buck more and they are about the same scale and Joes come with more accessories. Hasbro may ourprice me at some point, but I know I could either get selective or wait a few years and find someone selling them a bit cheaper. Hasbro is presenting a lot of cool things, and I usually collect just basic figures, but I am interesting in picking up a to-scale X-Wing at some point. i was excited to see Wedge's coming out, but I don't want to pay $60+ when it used to be about half that a couple years back (there's nothing new to it besides the ladders and his droid, except the lack of three red designating stripes, so it isn't like they made a new mold).
Title: Re: How Much is Too Much?
Post by: Darby on February 21, 2009, 09:29 AM
There's absolutely a limit.  I thought it was 6.99 but here I am buying figs at 7.50.  For those who are paying - or asked to pay - $9, that's just awful.  I would bail at that point and wait a year to nab them off ebay.  Which maybe is the sane thing to do.
Title: Re: How Much is Too Much?
Post by: CookieeMonster on February 21, 2009, 09:45 AM
I am being very choose and only getting ones that I want (I know that makes no sense, as obviously you only get the ones you want), however let me explain what I mean, before I had 3 categories in collecting these are as follows.

Category 1 (and the only ones I am buying from now straight of the peg).
Anything Movie Related to the OT that was from the Vintage Line done in Modern Style.

Category 2 (Now this used to be my back up line, picking up when I know I have the cash to splash out on them).
Anything that was a secondary character from the OT Movies or the New Republic era.

Category 3 (Which was anything, will be picking up of ebay or here in the sell section or from other boards, for a fair price).
Anything which fit in with the OT or New Republic from the entire Star Wars figure universe or anything that could be fitted in from various other lines (or used from various other lines for customs).

So yes my collecting has suddenly just changed however will I stop collecting no, does the price point annoy me yes, would I like it to go to a lower price Hell Yes with Bells on - is it going to anytime soon nope, I think it will get higher before it crashes, because the younger generation with disposable incoms that dont have mortgages or anything like that and have no real bills can still get them, Hasbro has just stopped people of an older generation from getting them - if you notice theres less and less of the OT being made and more of the EU and PT stuff being made, why because thats whats popular at the min to the younger generation, they couldnt care less about Wioslea (who they retconned into being a Jedi Knight and they cant decide if she's a Man or a Woman, WTF, shes a used car saleswoman originally) who appeared for a brief glimpse, nope they want that character from the New Dark Horse comic that appeared for a brief panel but looked so kick ass because he had millions of guns coming out of every orifice, and was a Jedi Master in the OT era as well as being one in the PT era, who owned the Millennium Falcon before Han got it, and Also was a love interest for Leia (or some other such crap).

Title: Re: How Much is Too Much?
Post by: iFett on February 21, 2009, 04:41 PM
This mirrors many of the same topics Brian has created, but I'll make this short and sweet.

I just hope to wrap things up this year with the exception of some new vehicles and call it a night.

Not sure about the rest of you guys, but I HAVE TOO MUCH ****
Title: Re: How Much is Too Much?
Post by: Darth_Anton on February 23, 2009, 09:39 AM
Figures were too much about a dollar ago. $5.99 should be the high end for basic figure and Battle Packs should be no more than $19.99. The price increases were definitely a factor in the cutting back of my SW toy spending.
Title: Re: How Much is Too Much?
Post by: speedermike on February 23, 2009, 10:13 PM
And the truth is, there's just too much product.  I've given up on the comic packs.  I don't really get into EU, but I like getting figures with a comic so I could figure out who the hell I was buying.  But I just lost track at some point, then started passing on them left and right.

Same with the Battle Packs. I just kind of gave up getting one or two new figs for the price of four.  There's some cool ones coming up, but, in genereal, I'm done with the Battle Packs.

However, I still love single carded figures.  They're my main focus, and yesm paying 9.19 a pop does suck, but I enjoy these so much that I can't help myself.

I was once a completist, but gave that up a while ago.  Now I buy what I want, and I'm happier.  And I have finally accepted that the Star Wars Action Figure Police will not fine me for holes in my collection!
Title: Re: How Much is Too Much?
Post by: Darth_Anton on February 24, 2009, 09:10 AM
Too much product? That too. Cutting out EU or PT is the next step if I decide I need/want to cut back.
Title: Re: How Much is Too Much?
Post by: JACKOFTRADZE on February 25, 2009, 05:54 PM
Not sure about the rest of you guys, but I HAVE TOO MUCH ****

I just hit that point.

I literally feel overwhelmed by it all, I have way too much in my collection. I am already in the process of dumping some vehicles and figures. I am done with the massive army building, I was never too bad but 34 of the same figure no longer sits well with me. I am also done with Joe vehicles, so I am for sure going to more selective on several fronts.

I have the hobby pay for itself through my ebay biz so I can buy what I want. Like a few others here it's not lack of funds or interest, it's the price increase. Anything over $8 is insane, so it's the principle. When you cannot buy 10 figures for $100 that's really bad. Since early 06' I have ordered SW figures by the case to save money and the headache of the hunt. If you break it down you pay $8 a pop with the shipping at most etailers. I will be damned if I am going to go to a store several times, compete with scalpers & waste my time/gas to pay an ridiculous amount of money for figures. $9 for a 3.75 figure is insane. Unless I am pressed they can shove it, maybe stores like Target will wake up seeing that their sales were down 41% this year. Something has to give.

My new priority order of collecting:
1. SW OTC Figures and vehicles: I am buying any & all new/refreshed stuff. No straight repacks.
2. Non-animated Prequel Figures and vehicles: This is where I am being more selective especially in the vehicle department. I am sick of clones to boot.
3. Classic Joe 25th Figures. I will buy any new ARH figure but that's it. Vehicles have to be very special for me to buy and I only want the definitive version of a character.
4. MOTUC: This line is great and worth every penny, plus it's spaced out and very manageable.

Anything outside of the above I buy is stuff for customs to resell to pay for the above hobby. With how much I spend even with the cutbacks I wonder how the avg (non extra income) collector keeps up. I think Hasbro is over doing it this year across all of their action brands. SW is a safe bet but MM & Unleashed to me have always been a waste.

I am so glad I did not get sucked into the CW animated stuff......

Title: Re: How Much is Too Much?
Post by: Jesse James on February 26, 2009, 01:21 AM
Quote
With how much I spend even with the cutbacks I wonder how the avg (non extra income) collector keeps up.

No wife, no kids, no mortgage, and at the moment not even a car payment...  :)

That and I don't buy much of any of the animated stuff (Got some IG-86's because they look ok, and a figure here and there for its accessories, but I've only got maybe 5 total CW figures?), and I don't collect allt he other lines...  Vehicles I only buy if they're to-scale or if they have a pack-in I want (and I try to resell the vehicle).

I really can't say I collect a lot...  I guess I just don't put that much itno it.  I do buy extras for customs and army building though, and that mounts up super fast.  A single wave here and there is nice, but army building some stuff really makes me rethink what I'm spending, and since Hasbro (and/or Retail) have decided price hikes at disturbing %'s are ok, I'll spend less on those "extras" I got before.  It's a shame but Hasbro is losing money from me at least in some capacity...  At $5 or $6 a pop I bet you wouldn't see so many Legends army builders languishing on pegs though.

I also try not to shop at the stores that are less competitive too...  I've gotten one figure at TRU in the last 8 months or so?  In this age of baseless price-hikes like we're seeing, I cannot justify spending an extra $5 or whatever on a battlepack or vehicle at TRU...  It just doesn't make sense from a financially responsible standpoint (personally).
Title: Re: How Much is Too Much?
Post by: Ben on February 26, 2009, 03:43 AM
Not sure about the rest of you guys, but I HAVE TOO MUCH ****

Me too. I've had lots of nights lately where I've been thinking of just taking 98% of my collection to Goodwill just to be rid of it. Things you own end up owning you and all that. But then I hit that wall about what I would keep and what I would get rid of, and I can't decide what to do.
Title: Re: How Much is Too Much?
Post by: Brian on February 26, 2009, 09:27 AM
Not sure about the rest of you guys, but I HAVE TOO MUCH ****

Me too. I've had lots of nights lately where I've been thinking of just taking 98% of my collection to Goodwill just to be rid of it. Things you own end up owning you and all that. But then I hit that wall about what I would keep and what I would get rid of, and I can't decide what to do.

I think about this from time to time as well.  I think I probably enjoy the actual products as much as ever.  Hasbro (and other manufacturers) have really stepped up the game for the most part with action figures, and its a lot more rare when there's really a "stinker" of a figure in a wave anymore.  That said, like many of you have mentioned, I just have too much crap.  Plus, I really like to try to have most of it in a nice display (I'd rather not have it all packed up), and that's getting more and more difficult these days.  The majority of my collection resides in our "office", and according to the Mrs., isn't to leave that room - which I understand.  Aside from a few minor things in our basement, its all crammed in one (fairly smallish) room, and its getting crowded.  Like I said, I like displaying it, but at the same time I don't want to sit in a toy warehouse either.  Sometimes I think I should sell off a large chunk of it, but at the same time there isn't a lot I necessarily want to get rid of.  Heck, I'd still like to get an AT-TE (and the Juggernaut), but I have no idea where I'd put them (besides on the floor, but with a 19 month old that isn't the best option right now).

It is interesting to read that a lot of people are reaching a breaking point with prices these days, and for many of us, that seems to be about $8.  That does seem like plenty to pay per figure, especially when there are so many releases in any given year.  I'll admit that I didn't have a huge problem paying $10 for the majority of the VOTC figures, but that was a situation where there was only 12 in a year.  When you're looking at 50-70 basic figures alone, $8 a pop adds up awfully quickly.
Title: Re: How Much is Too Much?
Post by: Rob on February 26, 2009, 10:16 AM
Me too. I've had lots of nights lately where I've been thinking of just taking 98% of my collection to Goodwill just to be rid of it. Things you own end up owning you and all that. But then I hit that wall about what I would keep and what I would get rid of, and I can't decide what to do.

You'd be surprised what you can get for it with a little patience and a little luck.

I sold 95% of my carded collection to two buyers at $5.00 per figure, $10 for deluxe.  The small pile that is left, I'm getting ready to slash prices on / dump.
Title: Re: How Much is Too Much?
Post by: Ben on February 26, 2009, 01:13 PM
I'm thinking that's where I'll start- the carded collection. Maybe with that gone, things will look a little slimmer. As it is, most of my collection is in storage in my parent's basement, and it's really getting on my nerves having all that **** there.
Title: Re: How Much is Too Much?
Post by: Jesse James on February 26, 2009, 01:25 PM
I think it's an inevitability the collection will look a LOT slimmer without a carded collection.  That stuff always took up the most room...  I was ecstatic to lose most of my carded stuff.  I'm thinking of selling my complete silver figure collection actually.  Those are a neat novelty but take up space...  Target exclusives probably need to go too.  The only thing I want carded these days are my concept set and vintage (real vintage, not modern stuff). 

Boxed/carded just looks like a mess with this line due to its extremely long life...  :(
Title: Re: How Much is Too Much?
Post by: iFett on February 26, 2009, 03:18 PM
I got to thinking about all my crap.....99% of my entire Star Wars collection is carded/boxed - not to mention army builders and a few multiples of select ships.  I have pretty much all Hasbro figures, vehicles, multi/battlepacks from 95 through present with the exception of very few things.  Not to mention stuff I have like unleashed, titaniums, and galactic heroes - again all sealed. 

How long do you think it would take to rip through everything if/and/or when I have a breakdown?  I can understand the excitement that some of you have opening a new wave here and there, but everything - all at once?  Maybe it's not so much of a question but as a thought....
Title: Re: How Much is Too Much?
Post by: Jesse James on February 26, 2009, 03:23 PM
Start with army builders...  You'll be hooked.  I have no clue how long it'll take, but I know it takes me a while to open just a wave if I find them all at once, as I like to enjoy the figures for a bit before they go shelved somewhere.  It probably took me an hour anyway to open Wave 5 when I found most of it a few weeks ago... 

Army builders I've still got some carded lying about (Snowtroopers in particular I probably have 10 anyway around here not opened yet). 

I spent a good hour opening $1 Indy figures the other night too, and separating them between army builders, fodder, and figures I needed in the collection yet, or figures set aside for a specific planned simple custom I want to flesh that line out just a slight bit more.  That was with no "enjoying" them like putting them in some poses on display or something.  It was just open, put in a pile, separate things like the paperwork and artifacts...  I was trying to condense the packaging too so it didn't need a giant bag unto itself for the burn barrel.
Title: Re: How Much is Too Much?
Post by: Rob on February 26, 2009, 04:45 PM
Indy figures are down to a dollar?  ...at that price I might just buy some troops.
Title: Re: How Much is Too Much?
Post by: Jesse James on February 26, 2009, 05:27 PM
Yup...  $4 at Big Lots, though they're later waves so they're less common.  Good stuff.

I can't speak for your area though, but Pittsburgh is pretty well cleaned out of Indy figures at WM where they were $1...  I think there's 3 at my nearby WM and that's it.  Other stores have absolutely nothing.  And troopers are LONG gone.  Russians, Germans (for the most part), Ugha's and the like sold out at $3 near me.  Hell, Russians sold out before $3 even.
Title: Re: How Much is Too Much?
Post by: Morgbug on February 26, 2009, 05:36 PM
I gotta think you guys are seeing this price increase as a result of the economic crisis, so at some point it may resolve.  I don't know if we've been ripped off for years or if we're getting a heck of a bargain right now, but our figures haven't really changed in price for years, including now.  Still $9.92-9.99 at our retailers.  That may change now that I've put it down in print, but so far so good. 
Title: Re: How Much is Too Much?
Post by: Brian on February 26, 2009, 05:38 PM
I find it takes a little longer to open up figures these days as well, as they really seem to have them tied in through rubber bands, the actual plastic packaging and so on.  Especially with the packaging since the ROTS days, I often wonder how easily a kid can just "rip into" the packaging like we could as kids.  With the way packaging is these days, it would seem a lot more difficult.

I thought about hitting our local Big Lots this weekend to check on the Indy stuff as well.  I have one of everything from the basic line, but it would be tempting to pick up more of some of the later stuff at $4 each.  Our WM is all but sold out of Indy at this point (maybe a couple Mutt figures), they seemed to go quick at $1.
Title: Re: How Much is Too Much?
Post by: Satria Libra on March 15, 2009, 11:54 PM
I want to collect every starwars toys collectibles. But my wallet is restricting me to do it.

So, i collect only clone guys and jedis
Title: Re: How Much is Too Much?
Post by: Darth_Anton on March 16, 2009, 10:01 AM
These days, you need a warehouse to collect every SW collectable.  :P
Title: Re: How Much is Too Much?
Post by: Keonobi on March 16, 2009, 10:44 AM
I read that part of Mark Hamil's contract stated that he got one of each item that bears his likeness.  He has a warehouse for just stuff with his face on it.  I guess his son manages the continued influx of items.  Probably not what he had in mind when his agent added that clause.  But i can't even begin to imagine how much space you'd need for one of each star wars item.

 :o
Title: Re: How Much is Too Much?
Post by: Matt_Fury on March 16, 2009, 04:36 PM
Well...he probably didn't get much from the early POTF2 Luke figures.
Title: Re: How Much is Too Much?
Post by: Satria Libra on March 16, 2009, 11:39 PM
These days, you need a warehouse to collect every SW collectable.  :P

A real big one, my master.

Maybe bigger than Millennium Falcon's loading dock. ::)
Title: Re: How Much is Too Much?
Post by: Brian on August 22, 2009, 07:09 PM
Ok, my last post go waaay too winded, so I'm going to try to summarize my thoughts better.  Basically, we've been hearing a lot about how collector interest is fading - and it seems we've even seen it on our forums here.  A number of long time collectors are either calling it quits, selling stuff off, or just thinking about shifting focus at this point.  There are a number of factors that we've discussed here before that might contribute to this, but what I was wondering is if there is a certain line make-up for the Legacy collection (or comparable line) that would help to fix this?  Is there too much stuff, is it the pace of releases, or maybe it has just been too long of a time "in the game" with the Hasbro stuff for many people.

Personally, it seems to me that the quality of figures/etc. lately is at some of Hasbro's best work.  The figures overall this year have been great, and the upcoming waves look to continue that.  The back end pile up we're getting again this year with figure releases and exclusives doesn't help people any, but if this line had been spread out over the year it would be better.  Obviously, with the CW success, the animated stuff isn't going anywhere (and some of it is pretty cool) - so what would be a good make-up for the Legacy line.  Do you think kids have much interest in this line - or is it turning into a collector line?

I got too detailed before with this, but what do you think would be a good make-up of the Legacy line?  I think the POTJ days (with around 40 figures per year) seemed like an easier time to be a collector.  Maybe 40-50 figures per year (which I suppose is close to the current pace) would be a good number.  The "starfighter" vehicle line, although very light on OT offerings, seems to be doing pretty well (although a few less Jedi repaints is probably welcome).  We've yet to see what the "figure with vehicle" and "deluxe vehicle" assortments can offer, but I'd like to see some OT (or even PT) stuff explored here too alongside CW (although the CW stuff is pretty much PT stuff too).  I like having one "BMF" vehicle per year, maybe alternating between an OT re-do and a CW/PT vehicle each year (Turbo Tank this year, maybe a new Slave 1 or AT-AT next year, etc.)  It seems like the opportunity to get new OT beasts/vehicles is going the exclusive route from here on out - so I guess that is better than not getting them at all.  Maybe give each of the "big 3" one vehicle and/or beast each year, alongside a two pack assortment and anything else someone can think of.  Again, spreading these out would help some too.  I'll end here with the risk of getting any longer, but do you think there is a better line make-up that would help keep collectors interested.  The product seems to be of great quality, but apparently fewer people are buying it.  Price has something to do with it, but many are leaving for lines that cost the same or more (Joes hit $8+ in some locations now).  I also think the whole "three lines" at retail is an issue too, no matter what the pegs might say.  Perhaps better choices for "Legends" an incorporating them into the basic line (if/when the build a droid part wasn't an issue) would be an answer.
Title: Re: How Much is Too Much?
Post by: jedi_master_sal on August 25, 2009, 05:45 PM
I could go on and on, but for me it points to two words: Less Expensive.

I don't really care to hear Hasbro's argument about why the stuff is more expensive now. If we look at the past 30+ years of collecting SW, price has never shot up this rapidly as it has in the past few years.

They tried this with Episode I and failed miserably.

Hasbro is doing this with other lines too though, not just SW. Marvel is one of the worst now. Used to be you could get a Marvel Legends figure for $8-9 now they're over $12.

Personally I don't need to have a build a droid part in every figure in every wave. There are many droids I simply do not want. Some of the repaints are ridiculously obscure. I'd rather see more carded figures instead and at least $1 less per figure.

Three lines is too much.

I'd like to see one wave per month alternating the two major lines. One month it's Animated, the next it's realistic, and so on. Then maybe every three months a vehicle for each line. And every six months alternating, one BIG vehicle. Maybe March is Realistic then September is Animated. That schedule would work well for Toy Fair and SDCC!

One big thing that bothers me is Hasbro's excuse that they don't have control over the manufacturer. Aren't THEY the frickin' manufacturer? So the plant is in China... If that plant keeps f'in up the figures (Hoth Rebel Soldier among a plethora of other mistakes-wrong ligthsabers for example) then get a different plant. How about bringing those jobs back to the U.S.? I'm failing to see how that isn't an option anymore. No shipping form overseas, quicker shipping time in general, more homegrown jobs to help our own economy (sorry to those not in the U.S., I realize part of this post is bias, but it is what it is). 

Anyway, I barely collect anything from the animated line, so my collecting has go down by default. Though, I have had it planned and acted on for the last few years to cut my budget as well. Just not enough "new" stuff. To many repaints and then for much more money....Imperial ARC-170. (Really Hasbro? $70, really?)

I'd buy more if it was less expensive, readily available (less exclusives please), and new - not reissued or redecoed stuff.
Title: Re: How Much is Too Much?
Post by: David on August 25, 2009, 06:12 PM
(http://www.ukrecession.com/wp-content/uploads/clapping.gif)

Beautiful post, Sal! Wonderful ideas. I hope Hasbro's reading this!
Title: Re: How Much is Too Much?
Post by: Nicklab on August 25, 2009, 06:17 PM
These days, you need a warehouse to collect every SW collectable.  :P

Or at least a storage unit or a garage.  :P


I think we've become victims of Hasbro's success with the Star Wars line.  Because it's just kept growing and growing and growing.  Hasbro tried coming out of the gate really strong in the Episode I days and totally overestimated collector and fan interest.  And we wound up with the worst pegwarming ever in the history of the modern line.  Hasbro reevaluated and got back to a smaller line that focused on quality with POTJ.  And the line has grown since then as more people got into collecting during the span the prequel movie toy lines.  Army building became a phenomenon.

I think we're seeing how much some individuals can bear now.  Even with a bigger house now, I've got to store a good deal of my collection in my garage and storage space in my house while I get my collection room fully set up.  At some point we just run out of space.  And when finances factor in too?  People have to make tough decisions then.  And if someone sides with providing with a family over collecting, I've gotta say that I would side with providing for a family, too.  It's just a no-brainer to me.
Title: Re: How Much is Too Much?
Post by: Rob on August 25, 2009, 06:22 PM
I could go on and on, but for me it points to two words: Less Expensive.



One big thing that bothers me is Hasbro's excuse that they don't have control over the manufacturer. Aren't THEY the frickin' manufacturer? So the plant is in China... If that plant keeps f'in up the figures (Hoth Rebel Soldier among a plethora of other mistakes-wrong ligthsabers for example) then get a different plant. How about bringing those jobs back to the U.S.?

These two notions are completely contradictory.  Nothing would raise prices more than bringing the manufacturing back to the states.  I'd be willing to pay a little more to see it happen (no idea what the actual cost would be)... but it isn't going to happen.
Title: Re: How Much is Too Much?
Post by: jedi_master_sal on August 26, 2009, 02:08 PM
I don't think they are completely contradictory. Considering the recession and the lack of jobs, some of which in the manufacturing sector, I think a toy maker would do well to set up shop again here in the states.  Some people are starving for work. I'm not saying we could pay them Chinese wages, of course U.S. wages would be more, but they don't need to be so freakin' high either. Again, the economy can dictate what starting wages can be. Yes, I know unions would want to get involved. So this is where that system needs to either change or realize that they (unions) can't ask for everything under the sun and expect the business to bow to their every wish. Businesses have closed up shop or moved to other nations because of this kind of thing. How about the old business addage "an honest day's work for an honest day's pay." If you ask me, there's too much pay for not enough work much of the time. We're seeing now that not just Americans, but the world is learning how to do with less. But as it affects Americans, I think there would be plenty of people who would want those factory jobs, even at less pay and maybe even if there wasn't a strong union presence.

I understand the Unions help employees, however, they've also helped in bringing down the auto industry. Why the hell is a factory line worker getting paid $20+ an hour? And the ridiculous atrocities committed by some employees, knowing full well they are protected by the union is not just absurd, but in my opinion criminal. I can give a clear instance if so desired to be expressed. This isn't even limited to factory unions either, but I'll go way off topic if I tread down that path.

The savings from not having to shop overseas, plus customs, plus direct control over your product, plus not having to deal with exporting raw materials to then only import refined products from those very same raw materials, plus better shipping time and planning can greatly help to offset the additional wages of homegrown workers. Besides, the more we can take back from the Chinese the better. They've got the U.S. by the proverbial nutsack. Bringing jobs back can knock the Chinese back down a few pegs. Maybe that would teach them to "play nice" as well.

How many times in just the last year have we heard about lead in this toy or another, coming out of China. What about that milk scare not to long ago that affected many of their own people yet the government of China let it happen? It's obvious they don't care so much about human rights. Do we really want to by products from those countries? I hope you don't, but also realize we aren't in much of a position to do anything about it .... except for not buy this stuff. And that is a hard prospect to follow for too many a collector.

If the local, state and federal govt.'s would give tax breaks to those companies retaining jobs in the U.S. or bringing jobs BACK to the U.S., then there is another potential for saving money as well as more jobs here, instead of places like China.

I don't think the two notions are mutually exclusive, no.

Sorry, I know that post seemed political. I assure you that was not the intention, I was just trying to speak my mind freely on how I feel about this all. Oh and Rob, I guess I'm glad to see you'd be willing to pay more if it meant jobs came back here. I just hope that wouldn't be the case.
Title: Re: How Much is Too Much?
Post by: Keonobi on August 26, 2009, 02:45 PM
There is no way bringing production back to the US would lower prices of the end product.  American labor costs are simply too high to compensate for whatever minimal decrease there would be in shipping costs (Think about how many action figures would fit inside a single shipping container; roughly the size of Tractor Trailer box (39+ feet long, 7+ feet wide, 7+ feet tall))  Assuming a 1 ft sqr box holds 12 figures, that's 22,932 figures per container.  My point is you can ship a lot of the figures together pretty cheaply (shore to shore in under a week).  One of the largest costs related to production is labor (think about the number of paint applications, the number of pieces an unassembled, superarticulated figure is, plus the complex way inwhich the figures are posed and then rubberbanded in place.  Make no mistake labor represents a significant portion of the cost, and Chinese labor is sufficiently cheap to make up for the added shipping.
Title: Re: How Much is Too Much?
Post by: Rob on August 26, 2009, 03:44 PM
Yep, the people making the toys we all buy are getting paid peanuts to do it.  That's why they're made there.  Recession or not, you'd have to find Americans willing to work for a few dollars a day (or worse) before it would become cost effective to produce them domestically.
Title: Re: How Much is Too Much?
Post by: Keonobi on August 26, 2009, 04:02 PM
Per the IMF China has a nominal per capita income of $3,315, the United States had a per capita income of $46,859.
Title: Re: How Much is Too Much?
Post by: jedi_master_sal on August 26, 2009, 05:34 PM
Again though you're just taking into account the wages of the two countries. What of the savings in exporting materials, importing the finished goods, and shipping those goods around the nation. (not to mention the rest of the world)

I'm willing to bet there are a good number of those millions of unemployed Americans who would gladly take a factory job making $20K/yr as opposed to nothing right now. For one, they'd be covered by medical insurance. But an honest wage and paycheck is a big motivator to most people out there, especially those who don't have job.

Ask those towns who's major industry was auto manufacturing. Their towns are dried up now and losing population and money like crazy. Stick a toy plant there with the complete knowledge that there is no way they'll get the same wages as the old plant. Something more modest yes, but a good job for fair pay, plus those benefits. I'm betting there are towns out there who would take the offer in an instant. As I mentioned before, this recession has taught a lot of people to live within their means now or even less than that. So lower wages than before VS. NO wages is a big difference to them.

I'm not saying a company should take advantage of this either. Again, honest PAY for honest WORK. 

It's troublesome to me when (and I'll use myself as an example here) someone with two degrees who has been in his field for more than 10 years makes barely as much or less than some factory worker who comes in off the street gets a job and who seemingly has more "rights" because they belong to a union. Switching careers here to make a point, the starting salary of a bus driver is $18+ an hour here in Pittsburgh, I make a little over that and I've been in my field over 10 years. It doesn't take all that long to learn how to drive a bus. So why should they be paid the same or better than me, when they don't have a degree or comparable experience? One word: Union. The cost for mass transit in Pittsburgh is abnormally high. Besides gas costs, the blame can be squarely planted on the Union.

Anyway, back to the topic...I still think Hasbro needs to make this stuff more affordable to us. If that means dropping the price, great. If it means keeping jobs overseas, it's regrettable, but I'll bite, but that hasn't saved we consumers anything. The price STILL keeps going up.

I'm certain there is a solution out there.
Title: Re: How Much is Too Much?
Post by: Keonobi on August 26, 2009, 06:27 PM
Not to belabor the point, but even paying a factory worker in the US $20k to make SW figs is still about 6 times more than what you'd have to pay a Chinese worker.  As for the raw materials, we don't export plastic to China to make these, they do it in China.  The only shipping is of the final goods and due to their small size (meaning they can be packed densely and neatly) and light weight (the shipping containers will be full before they hit the weight limit), shipping is a relatively minor cost factor.  (Think about it, there are probably a couple hundred ships leaving China daily, how much "extra" do you think it costs to add one more container to a ship (and that container carries 200k action figures), that's why shipping costs are such a small component of total costs.)

While there may be other factors at play, a large part of why prices have crept up is because we're still buying.  Hasbro hasn't yet hit the point where a further price rise would lower their profits.  Does that mean some buyers will be priced out of the market?  Yup.  But it seems the other sales they are still making are keeping them profitable.  Look no further than Walmart and Hasbro's pricing decisions on the BAD sets.  They wanted to hit a certain revenue number and based on a smaller order size they had to increase the price.  And the sets still sold through pretty well, given the feedback here on JD (they've been scarce in most locations after the initial sightings).
Title: Re: How Much is Too Much?
Post by: JACKOFTRADZE on August 26, 2009, 10:16 PM
Loved you post Sal!
It's not a case of Hasbro gouging in every SKU, look at the market place right now your average action figure is $8. So SW is right in line with everything else out there. If you think prices are bad now just wait, hyper inflation is coming in the very near future. If cap and trade is passed figures will be Canadian prices in the states. Everything is going to be a lot more expensive than what it is right now. Hasbro only has so much control of pricing, manufacturing in China is getting expensive, freight is a killer and packaging is 30% of the product cost in a best case scenario. I have been in the toy industry for almost 10 years, freight is a huge expense not a small one. Just downsizing the package by 10% can save a lot of money, I have to do this on every project I work on. Retailers want higher margins on everyday driver like figures, die cast cars and low priced items so they set the stage as well. We are in a messed up period right now but I hope in a few years we see OTC pricing again of $5-$6 a figure but something tells me that's 4-5+ years off.

After $8 a figure is where I serious take a pause to rethink the purchase. With reports of $8.64 that really concerns me. I can deal with $7 but this is getting out of hand when TAC started at $5.99. In 2.5 yrs we have seen some steep increases and I am afraid the reality is it's only going to get worse. That's why I quit Joe for the most part, I am not paying $8+ for movie figures. SW I will still buy regardless (with a little cut bac)k but any other line I will think thrice before I purchase. I do not blame Hasbro, I point to bad decision making form our "leaders" who put us in this mess and are not fixing the problems. We just got to ride it out and work to make it better.
Title: Re: How Much is Too Much?
Post by: Jesse James on August 27, 2009, 01:03 AM
I hate to have to repeat this, again, but this topic is straying unfortunately into Sarlacc Pit territory where we're arguing why things cost so much...  Clearly one side feels one way, another side disagrees and feels it's another way.

Kindly keep it to the Pit.  That's twice now that this has had to be said here in the main forum...  I know you guys are all intelligent enough to know what's allowed outside there, and what's not, so if it's needed to be said again by staff, suspensions will be dealt.  No arguing your points with me as well, I really don't care to hear it right now.

Just stop it, and take it to the Pit.
Title: Re: How Much is Too Much?
Post by: Nicklab on August 27, 2009, 01:04 AM
I think that we need to weigh how much cost can be passed on to the consumer.  I saw figures at Target today for $8.24 each.  And there was almost an entire new wave of Clone Wars figures.  And you know what?  I passed.

As much as it would be nice to move those manufacturing jobs to the US, the consumer base is not prepared to pay the additional cost.
Title: Re: How Much is Too Much?
Post by: Brian on August 27, 2009, 11:01 AM
Yeah, I do think price has a lot to do with it - even more so for "casual" buyers.  For example, our local Target has stocked the Cad Bane wave of CW three times now, and quite a few of them are still on the pegs.  Granted, it is CW and that maybe doesn't have as large of a collector base, but it has been pretty rare where I've seen a "new wave" sit at all.  It is usually gobbled up in a day or two at most, aside from possible repacks.  Heck, I still saw Cad Bane on the pegs a few days later (gone now), which you really wouldn't expect with a character like that.

The prices, in combination with just the sheer amount of product doesn't help things any.  Sure, we don't have to buy it all, but many buy most of it and already have a room or storage facility full of toys to begin with.  I think a slower pace (and the lines being spaced out better throughout the year) would help too.  I've often used the example of the POTJ line, where we had nice waves throughout the year and around 40-50 figures total.  I guess when I look at the CW or TLC lines individually, we'd still have that (about 54 TLC basic figures this year I think, even less than that of CW), it is just that when they're all jammed on the pegs together - along with "Legends" - it starts to become a mess.  Add to that this pattern of seeing 75% of the product from August to December (also prime holiday shopping time), many people don't have the budget to keep up (myself included).

Prices are what they are.  I doubt they are going down anytime soon, and that stinks, but like it was mentioned SW really isn't out of line with the other 3 3/4" lines anymore.  Heck, it is even cheaper than both Joes and Marvel Universe stuff here locally, which for some reason are both over $8 in many places.  I guess a good question to ask is when was Star Wars collecting the most "fun" for you?  I've said it before that I think the actual figures we get today (TLC in particular) are some of Hasbro's best work.  From that side of things, I like the current crop the best.  At the same time though, I don't know that it has ever been as much "work" to collect as it has been the past couple years.  So much stuff, often in a very short release-window, coupled with higher prices and competition within the brand for peg space makes it a little tougher to find things.  I remember having a good month or two to find the "new wave" during the POTJ days, but now - particularly with most Legacy waves - you better try to get it when you see it.
Title: Re: How Much is Too Much?
Post by: JACKOFTRADZE on August 27, 2009, 12:55 PM
I think that we need to weigh how much cost can be passed on to the consumer.  I saw figures at Target today for $8.24 each.  And there was almost an entire new wave of Clone Wars figures.  And you know what?  I passed.

Dude, I do not blame you, I am with you. I have only been buying BAD stuff and never got into the animated. It's prices like this that make me thankful I never got into it. Prices will go down if demand is not there and I think we may see that if they continue to climb. SW is a resilient brand that would be able to take a hit and survive. They may make less product but it may need a price reset. Figures were $7-$8 in 1999, demand dropped over the next several years for several reasons and then we saw them drop down to $4.99 in 2002-2005. Could history repeat itself?
Title: Re: How Much is Too Much?
Post by: jedi_master_sal on August 28, 2009, 01:19 PM
...Figures were $7-$8 in 1999, demand dropped over the next several years for several reasons and then we saw them drop down to $4.99 in 2002-2005. Could history repeat itself?

One can only hope.

Okay, so to get back on topic, I have a 15X25 storage unit. It's about 85% filled with 90% of that stuff being mine in the form of toys, mostly SW stuff. (The other stuf us either my wife's or decorations). I'd say that's too much. Yet, I still buy.

Though I'm no longer the army builder I used to be. Age, cost and space helped to change that, plus there really aren't that many characters I'd care to army build now. The Gungan warrior is one of the last remaining ones for me.
Title: Re: How Much is Too Much?
Post by: Brian on September 9, 2009, 07:04 PM
You know, as I was rearranging some things in our office lately, it does seem that with all the Clone Wars focus we see in the line right now - it actually does have a little more of the "conservative" approach we've wanted to see with Star Wars.  If you look at the line by itself, we've seen like 5-6 waves of CW figures planned for this year, with about 4-5 "new" figures in each wave (not counting the Obi/Ani/etc. repacks).  All told, maybe 30 basic figures for the year, along with one big vehicle (or two if you count the AT-TE re-release), several new starfighter vehicles, a few battle packs mainly focused on army building (various clone regiments), and maybe an exclusive ship or two.  Not really a bad approach to the line, if it was all you were keeping up on.  But, then there is the Legacy line (and Legends if you collect that), not to mention comic packs/battle packs/etc.  With all the CW spotlight and support, we're probably actually getting more "Legacy style" stuff this year, at least as far as basic figures go (vehicles/etc. are usually another story).
Title: Re: How Much is Too Much?
Post by: Jabba the Slug on September 23, 2009, 02:02 AM
At my Target stores, BAD and CW figs are $9 flat, including tax. I like it better when they were $7 before tax ... I remember that at my Target, a little after prices went up with the debut of the BAD/CW lines in 2008, prices went down for a few months so that they were once again $7-8, but went up again. $9 today isn't too bad, but at my local Walgreens, just in my neighborhood, a basic figure is $11.49 BEFORE tax! What's up with that?!
Title: Re: How Much is Too Much?
Post by: Darth_Anton on September 23, 2009, 10:11 AM
At my Target stores, BAD and CW figs are $9 flat, including tax.

I take it you're in California somewhere?
Title: Re: How Much is Too Much?
Post by: Jabba the Slug on September 23, 2009, 06:11 PM
At my Target stores, BAD and CW figs are $9 flat, including tax.

I take it you're in California somewhere?

Yep, SF.
Title: Re: How Much is Too Much?
Post by: speedermike on September 24, 2009, 12:46 AM
NY is about the same.  I shop in Westchester, and the prices are steep.
Title: Re: How Much is Too Much?
Post by: darth_sidious on October 3, 2009, 08:23 PM
With such high prices, I do all I can do - cut back, and try to use sales and coupons (like clone cash) to bring the prices down a bit.  Perhaps the price is a factor in collectors falling back, and some ceasing to participate in the hobby - Hasbro must know this, and they should do something about it.  High prices, and too much product will drive us away from collecting, not boost interest...
Title: Re: How Much is Too Much?
Post by: Jim on October 3, 2009, 08:45 PM
For me the too much was a blessing in disguise.  I had collected every 4".  Ive purged most of my collecting and eliminated over 50% over the last several months.  If it wasnt in the film, I dont collect it.  That knocked the EU stuff out eliminating figs from comics, books, games, etc.  Ships I limit my self to OT only and I am very picky when it comes to this.  I'm sure that my PT stuff would be the next to go if I need to free up space.  I never really felt a connection with any of the characters like I did with the OT. 
Title: Re: How Much is Too Much?
Post by: Jabba the Slug on February 14, 2011, 09:18 PM
Ok, so I went to Target yesterday, and I was completely disgusted by what I saw...

TVC figures for $10.79?! Absurd! I had heard from reports that Target had upped their basic figure prices by a dollar - which should have made TVC $8.99 (the original price in August, and even just a few weeks ago, was $7.99). But now the price has gone up a whole $3.

Is there any way to complain to Hasbro about these rip-off prices? I'm sorry, there is no way an action figure is worth nearly $11 + tax. Sure, I'm a sucker, and I'll probably keep ending up buying from Target, since I really have nowhere else (no TRU, no Walmart), so I'm pretty much screwed.

Oh yeah, I forgot to mention SL and TCW went up $1, too. ::)
Title: Re: How Much is Too Much?
Post by: Jesse James on February 14, 2011, 09:39 PM
Holy schmoley...  I've not heard of this hike anywhere till now.  :o  I'd say someone at Target is watching TRU and figuring they can charge the same.  If this is going to happen around the country, like the $8.99 hike, I'm officially out I think.

WM is still holding strong at the normal price figures supposedly should be.
Title: Re: How Much is Too Much?
Post by: JediJman on February 15, 2011, 12:28 AM
I will complain to them by not paying full price at retail.  I'd rather start ordering cases/sets online or hold out for sales if I have to.  Man, I remember when people were freaking out that figures hit $7 instead of $6.   :P
Title: Re: How Much is Too Much?
Post by: Jesse James on February 15, 2011, 12:48 AM
I think $7.99 is too high personally.  $6.99 is my "this is fair" price.  $7.99 is "This is more than I want to pay but I'll go along and just buy far fewer extras than I used to" price.  $8.99 is "You suck as a retailer and I have to seriously consider quitting or scaling back purchases dramatically now, plus I'll probably also take it out on you by not purchasing other items at your store" price, and anything above that is my "You're just a dickhead for even asking for that much" price.

$5.99 is my, "God bless you" price right now, haha.
Title: Re: How Much is Too Much?
Post by: Jeff on February 15, 2011, 12:44 PM
$8.99 will certainly end buying a carded set for me...  ...Why raise the price?  Why ruin a good thing?

Because corporate made them raise it.  This was not a Hasbro Star Wars team decision to stick it to collectors, it was a corporate strategy to cover rising costs and keep the stock price looking pretty.

During the pre-Toy Fair Investor webcast, Hasbro confirmed that they have started enacting a prike hike on ALL of their toys (http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/02/11/hasbro-idUSN1126860320110211), not just Vintage.

"Hasbro Inc (HAS.O), the No. 2 U.S. toy company, is counting on price increases to combat rising costs of commodities, freight and labor.

The company, which hiked prices by mid-single digits this month, said it will monitor the cost environment closely to see if it has to raise prices again before fall, CFO Deborah Thomas told investors ahead of the toy fair in New York."

Mattel is doing the same thing, planning price increases on all their stuff to cover increases in oil and chinese labor costs.  It sucks, but unless you have a secret strategy for allowing Hasbro to make less money and then still keep investors and Wall Street happy, that's the way it is.
Title: Re: How Much is Too Much?
Post by: JediJman on February 15, 2011, 06:15 PM
$8.99 will certainly end buying a carded set for me...  ...Why raise the price?  Why ruin a good thing?

Because corporate made them raise it.  This was not a Hasbro Star Wars team decision to stick it to collectors, it was a corporate strategy to cover rising costs and keep the stock price looking pretty.

During the pre-Toy Fair Investor webcast, Hasbro confirmed that they have started enacting a prike hike on ALL of their toys (http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/02/11/hasbro-idUSN1126860320110211), not just Vintage.

"Hasbro Inc (HAS.O), the No. 2 U.S. toy company, is counting on price increases to combat rising costs of commodities, freight and labor.

The company, which hiked prices by mid-single digits this month, said it will monitor the cost environment closely to see if it has to raise prices again before fall, CFO Deborah Thomas told investors ahead of the toy fair in New York."

Mattel is doing the same thing, planning price increases on all their stuff to cover increases in oil and chinese labor costs.  It sucks, but unless you have a secret strategy for allowing Hasbro to make less money and then still keep investors and Wall Street happy, that's the way it is.

Working for manufacturer myself, I can appreciate the need to increase prices as commodities increase.  The price of most CPG items are on the rise these days, so an increase by itself isn't a big shocker.  For me, it is the amount of increase with each wave that is disturbing.  Most companies use these types of economic conditions to not only offset rising costs, but sneak a little padding into the margin.  After all, it is far easier to increase your price when everything else is increasing and you have an excuse - far harder when you're the only brand out there asking for more money.

But when prices rose from $5 to $6, that was a 20% increase in price.  I'm no expert in action figure cost structure, but I can all but guarantee their cost of goods didn't suffer by 20% five years ago - probably not even half that.  Move up to current times and you're seeing price tags move from $8 to $9 or $10 (or more) at some chains.  That's an increase of 13 to 25% over last year!  I don't know of any other product that sees those kinds of heavy increases all at once (except Kubricks I suppose  >:( ).  Basically we are paying for an extra figure now with every wave of 4 characters!  Here's food for thought:

If Hasbro were selling $3.50 gallons of milk last year, you'd suddenly be paying $4.38/gallon in 2011.  Kids, you can have water.
If Hasbro made $500 flat screen TVs last year, That TV just increased in price another $125.  Guess I won't be watching TV while drinking my water.
If Hasbro sold $20,000 cars a year ago, that same car would now cost you $25,000 a year later!!!  Forget 0% financing, you better start including -5% financing.

These kinds of increases are just ridiculous.  Lets say action figures have an average elasticity of -1, which essentially means you're going to lose the same percentage of sales for every percentage increase in price.  So, if Hasbro's cool with losing 25% of their sales, I guess they're just fine raising the prices from $8 to $10.  I know I'd be much happier with one or two $.25 increases throughout the course of the year and would bet most people wouldn't even blink at it in the short run.  Heck, they'd probably be past $10 per figure with a policy like that and still have less people upset about the cost. 
Title: Re: How Much is Too Much?
Post by: iFett on February 15, 2011, 08:12 PM
It will be interesting to see how many die-hards bail on SW.  I know I am after all this time.  $7.99 was hard to stomach and $8.99 is just asking too much IMO.  I make a decent living - not crazy decent like some of you, but ya....I will forever miss you $4.99 SW figures.  Heck even $5.99-$6.99.  Oh well....It was a fun ride at least!   :)
Title: Re: How Much is Too Much?
Post by: Brian on February 15, 2011, 09:14 PM
Yeah, it will be interesting to see if anyone (or how many) are finally priced out of the hobby.  I'm on a really tight budget the way it is, as I'm only working part-time right now (and likely until our daughter starts school), so I've already cut back.  If we do see these types of hikes across the board, I'll be cutting back even more.  I've already started skipping figures, and cut out pretty much all the "other" SW stuff last year.  I have been buying some CW stuff, but might drop that this year and stick to vintage - and then more selective there as well.  I know prices are up across the board for other toy lines, but it gets to the point where it just isn't worth it for what you're getting.  $10 for a 3 3/4" action figure?  As a premium figure it is one thing, but when the whole line is that way it is another.  We don't have those prices yet here at our Targets (although it is at $8.99), but if it hits $10 or more everywhere, I'll have to make some adjustments too.  I'm sure I'll always buy some (still really looking forward to much of what is on the way this year, the Bespin Han wave in particular), but it is getting pricey.
Title: Re: How Much is Too Much?
Post by: Diddly on February 15, 2011, 09:19 PM
Yeah if these prices hold up, I'm down to picking and choosing roughly one figure per wave. I've noticed recently that if you wait a year you can get figures online from guys like tunghori for $5, and sometimes cheaper than that. Sounds a lot better than paying around $10. But I'll see how this all plays out.
Title: Re: How Much is Too Much?
Post by: McMetal on February 16, 2011, 09:12 AM
I'm still on board no matter what, but I would prefer not to see any more waves with 4 new mid-size vehicles like we got last year in the TCW line. That was a pricey pill to swallow.

At least with the Vintage line, it's mainly just figures for this year.
Title: Re: How Much is Too Much?
Post by: Jabba the Slug on February 16, 2011, 09:02 PM
I hate to say it, but Hasbro's situation is understandable - but it just straight-up sucks for collectors. >:(

It's a shame that with TVC is doing so well, but it could start to slip with these outrageous prices. If anything, Hasbro should cut down on realistic-styled clones and fill the slots with in-demand characters for better sales.
Title: Re: How Much is Too Much?
Post by: JediJman on February 17, 2011, 01:15 AM
I hate to say it, but Hasbro's situation is understandable - but it just straight-up sucks for collectors. >:(

How is a 25% increase in the retail cost understandable?   ???
Title: Re: How Much is Too Much?
Post by: Jabba the Slug on February 21, 2011, 04:38 AM
I hate to say it, but Hasbro's situation is understandable - but it just straight-up sucks for collectors. >:(

How is a 25% increase in the retail cost understandable?   ???

I mean, in the way they're raising prices, but for what they said is "labor costs", right? Something like that. Now, if they're only raising prices to compete with other brands or just for the hell of it, then hey, that's not cool, but from what I heard it had to do with the factories and stuff.
Title: Re: How Much is Too Much?
Post by: JediJman on February 21, 2011, 10:34 AM
I hate to say it, but Hasbro's situation is understandable - but it just straight-up sucks for collectors. >:(

How is a 25% increase in the retail cost understandable?   ???

I mean, in the way they're raising prices, but for what they said is "labor costs", right? Something like that. Now, if they're only raising prices to compete with other brands or just for the hell of it, then hey, that's not cool, but from what I heard it had to do with the factories and stuff.

Again, I would love to hear examples of anything you've encountered raising prices by 25%.  I'm sure labor costs and raw materials and all that are increasing, just like they are for everything else.  Do we see Non-Hasbro products increasing by anything close to that?  I sure would love it if my annual "labor" increase was 25% this year.   :P  There is simply no way that this is not profit accretive for them.
Title: Re: How Much is Too Much?
Post by: CHEWIE on February 21, 2011, 10:50 AM
It just seems really convenient for figure prices to hike up across the board right after Hasbro announces they had one hell of a year in 2010. 
Title: Re: How Much is Too Much?
Post by: Rob on February 21, 2011, 12:13 PM
It just seems really convenient for figure prices to hike up across the board right after Hasbro announces they had one hell of a year in 2010. 

Agreed.  I think an awful lot of companies are using the economy as an excuse to pay people less... charge people more... increase bottom lines...
Title: Re: How Much is Too Much?
Post by: Master_Phruby on February 21, 2011, 01:01 PM
I say we boycott Hasbro!  Who's with me?

<sound of crickets>

anyone?

<more crickets>

<sigh>
Title: Re: How Much is Too Much?
Post by: JACKOFTRADZE on February 21, 2011, 03:10 PM
Reality check guys. You are all smarter than some of this finger pointing.

While it's easy and convenient to jump to default mode with the emotional rhetoric of the lemming thinkers that like to demonize the "Greedy & Evil Corporations" have you noticed commodity, food and gas prices lately? Plastic has oil in it. Factories need energy to power them and they are powered by oil. Trucks that take the goods to the dock run on oil, ships and planes that deliver the goods here run on oil. The goods have to go back on trucks to be delivered to stores and if you have not guessed already they run on oil too. Oil costs money and oil is getting more expensive. So when oil goes up everything does including the goods we like to purchase like SW figures.

If Hasbro is losing money on the brand they will no longer make them. When costs go up the company can only absorb so much so they have to raise prices based on supply/demand. Stores need to charge more as well because they can only absorb so much too. I work in the Toy industry, China raised the price of manufacturing everything by 20%, no joke. It's devastating. My company and all companies have no choice to raise prices.

So instead of blaming Hasbro I suggest focusing on the temporary politicians that have passed horrible moratoriums, legislation and over regulating laws that is making the cost of energy, food and goods rise. These same people have spent so much an accumulated so much debt that the Dollar is dropping therefore it's worth less. When it's worth less it costs even more to buy stuff.

This is economics and business 101. Too many people know about sports and Star wars but not the very people who affect their wallet. Please, pay attention to politics, their actions have finally penetrated the bubbles of the A-Politicals Americans to the point where they are seeing their action come home to roost. It's only when wallets are affected that this happens.

Sorry for the rant but I am so tired of the Evil & Greedy Corporation spiel, it's loser talk. The majority of Companies are not out to get you, they want to earn your business and have you come back for more. They are not out to screw you.
Title: Re: How Much is Too Much?
Post by: Keonobi on February 21, 2011, 04:21 PM
Without straying too far into "pit" specific talk, the reason that the price for Chinese goods are rising isn't because the dollar is depreciating, its because the Chinese have made atleast show efforts to stop manipulating the renminbi.  Meaning they are actually letting the value of their currency rise; some.  Which means you need more dollars to purchase goods made in China.

Higher commodity prices don't have a 1:1 relationship with rising consumer prices.  Action figures have a significant portion of their cost tied in the labor costs.  Which is to say the Hasbro (or freelance) sculptors, the factory workers, the packaging designers, the marketing people, the people that stock the figures, etc.  For the most part those costs haven't been escalating.  Of the $8+ of the cost of the action figure the actual value of the plastic contained in the figures is only a few cents.

It's inaccurate to state that the higher commodity prices directly lead to higher consumer prices.  Its only true for consumer items where the underlying commodity makes up the majority of the price structure.  For goods where the majority of the price is tied up in non-commodity components (for example items with a high labor content), price increases can only rise when inflation gets baked in (ie when we see increases to core inflation).

Hasbro has realized that the Vintage line sells at $8-$9 at a rate sufficient that they think they'll increase their margins if the increase prices to the $9-$10 range.  Similarly Walmart and Target have realized that they are leaving money on the table and not gaining market share by pricing their figures lower.  Its not a commodity story, its just business.
Title: Re: How Much is Too Much?
Post by: Jesse James on February 21, 2011, 04:43 PM
I'd prefer we keep all our political beliefs to ourselves.  That's not appropriate for this discussion as nobody has a definitive answer to all this, and nobody is asking to be debated.  There's not even just two clear sides.  There's a lot of reasons prices are hiking, and they go beyond political regulations, oil prices going up, and large companies being greedy and opportunistic.  And none of it's really appropriate for in here.

Ultimately the prices suck though, and if you want to complain about them (or praise them because you're nuts?) be my guest.  I for one know what I believe, and that I'm not just following people because I don't understand business or economics...  Had plenty of years to earn my education in the field to know better.  ;)  So let's keep the discussion here to just how basically ****** the costs of these things are, sales and stuff, and whether we're going to cut back or quit the hobby all together.

Me personally, I actually do have my finger on the red button of doom...  I easily could see giving up things if the prices go beyond $8.99.  I cut back at $7.99, and I don't feel that's a good price really, but it was tolerable.  $8.99 means I'm really cutting back and avoiding anything that isn't really well done.  Anything above that and I'm going to go OT only and pick up only what I really wanted to see made before I quit, and then basically be done with the hobby.

If Hasbro sees sales decline they may adjust.

Is the MSRP up on Star Wars figures, or no?  If the MSRP hasn't gone up...  I question who exactly is doing the price-hiking here.  MSRP's are set with room to sell figures for less and still profit, so is this Hasbro or retail?  That's a big question right now.  I do find it funny though how profitable 2010 was for the line, in a non-movie year, and considering how well the line did in 2007 which was a boom year.  2008 saw a hike but with the droid pack-in...  sales declined.  Now here we are.  Will the line boom again in 2011?

Anyway, price-hikes aren't new, but neither are price drops from time to time...  I hope they can come down which I think they can, but my hope dwindles.  You never know though, and so all you can do is watch and wait.  :-\
Title: Re: How Much is Too Much?
Post by: JediJman on February 21, 2011, 04:44 PM
Its not a commodity story, its just business.

Exactly.  Lets consider a few facts:
 - We know Hasbro had a great year selling SW in 2010.  That means they made a very good profit.
 - Retail prices moving from $8 to $10 is a 25% increase.
 - Debate commodity impact or fuel costs however you like, there is simply no way Hasbro costs have risen 25%

I don't care how anyone tries to spin it, this is a company that was already is making good profit on something and is now raising their profit margin even higher.  I guess if I thought I could grow my own net income in this manner, maybe I would do the same.  That said, no one should mistake the fact that Hasbro is getting more profit per figure than they ever have before.  You don't have to hate Hasbro or stop buying figures, but don't blind yourself by saying these increases are expected or make Hasbro out to be the victim here.

By the way, if anyone can stomach the $9 price on HTS.com, coupon code HTS10 will get you 10% off.  ;)
Title: Re: How Much is Too Much?
Post by: JACKOFTRADZE on February 21, 2011, 04:52 PM
JJ, This is not spin, it's reality. 2010 profit is great to point out but gas was a lot cheaper than it is this year. Also Labor costs were lower in 2010 than 2011. Starting in 2011, China instituted a 20% increase in manufacturing. In the Toy industry you negotiate pricing on a yearly basis.

Kenobi, I generalized without going to far in the fine details of all of the factors I mentioned so I did not go too Pitt. I just wanted to mention enough to get the point across. And I do agree with you on China (All manufacturing over there did increase by 20% nationwide too) However  the main culprit for all of the increases including commodities is oil/gas. As I pointed out in my last post it clearly it touches the Star Wars figure you buy at several points before it even reaches the pegs. It costs a lot more to make and get it to the shelf. Transportation and shipping is at an all time high, it touches every single aspect of our lives.

My main point was that after reading the comments here and on Yakface all I have been seeing is the bashing of Hasbro calling them greedy without looking into the real culprits of why we are paying more. Believe me Hasbro would love to sell these cheaper so they could move more volume, current conditions will not allow it. All of the unrest is only adding to the problem.

Take a look next time you fill your tank, it costs you more just to get to work or hunt for figures. Translate that into the supply chain of goods and services. Costs go up and they are passed on to us. We all lose.
Title: Re: How Much is Too Much?
Post by: Jesse James on February 21, 2011, 04:59 PM
JACK, I asked nicely once...  Stop it.

Nobody said you're spinning anything, I just said other people have other points of view, and many of them are qualified believe it or not.  You're probably not the only one is all I'm saying. ;)  So please drop it.

A buddy of mine in GE's polymers manufacturing division laughed at the notion of the increases by the percentages we're seeing...  And yes they deal with Chinese labor and manufacturing using oil-based products.  There's a lot of angles to look at the price-hikes from, and simplification to "It's oil!" is one way...  There's certainly other valid viewpoints.  And we're trying to keep this area clean from the "it's _____'s fault, and you're all blind to it!" bull****.

You're my friend, so I hate to be this dickish with my post, but please drop it.
Title: Re: How Much is Too Much?
Post by: JACKOFTRADZE on February 21, 2011, 05:39 PM
Jesse I honestly missed your post, I was typing as you posted, look at the times. Noted and no offense taken, same comes from me. I also was not trying to pick fights, especially if you read my last post, but some things cannot go unchallenged. Oil is the main culprit, it does not care what political party you belong to. I also do not care what your political stripes are either, people need to pay attention to all of them and not just sports/etc. My political references were not aimed at just one party or person, it was at both parties, they are both very guilty. So please do not over read into it. I also mentioned the unrest in the mid east so there are outside factors as well which do and can make matters even worse in regards to oil.

I was defending Hasbro from all of the "greedy" accusations, frankly it's reactionary. I have not seen or read balancing points of view for Hasbro, just insults and accusations. Just because they have no voice here should not make them the ultimate punching bag, I have friends there. (I knock them when they really deserve it) I also work in the Toy industry as you know, so I take this matter personally (maybe too much which I can admit) because I deal with this on a daily basis. I am seeing increases in manufacturing, material and transportation mainly from oil first hand. We as an industry cannot hold prices and have to raise them, retailers in turn must raise prices as well. It's a fact, I stand by that. My industry in under real threat because we are a luxury not a necessity. You know I am reasonable, I am opinionated but I base my opinions on facts and logic. I do not pick fights or interject just because.

Does anyone think I like paying more for figures? I do not but I know where the increases are coming from and they are not sinister plots. I will leave it at that not to stir anything in a bad way, that was not my intention at all. No one, including Hasbro wants to raise prices just because or to rip you off. They want you to be a repeat buyer.

Title: Re: How Much is Too Much?
Post by: Jesse James on February 21, 2011, 05:51 PM
That's certainly fair JACK, and I appreciate your viewpoint on things always, so don't get me wrong.  And I think everyone can agree oil's caused price hikes across the board, all industries, but there's just questioning over Hasbro's hikes and if they're excessive...  I think that's open to debate.

As far as Hasbro being greedy...  I think that's debatable too.  It's not the design team's fault obviously, but people in on the financial aspect who could be accused of this...  And Hasbro would hardly be the first large company to make a cash grab in turbulent economic times.  So do I see it as possible?  Absolutely.  I see it equally possible it's retailers and not Hasbro.  Like I said, what's the MSRP these days?  Is it up, or has it remained?  Did it just go up on CW/Legends and Vintage stayed the same?  These are things I'm not sure on...  If MSRP's went up you can start pointing fingers more at Hasbro.  If they didn't, you certainly cannot.  I'm not sure though, I just know prices have gone up.

Like I said though, there's POV's that differ that oil's all of it...  And they're pretty solid too.  So people are going to not always agree that, "It's just oil and you have to accept it".  I don't doubt that oil's playing a part though, for sure.  I think that's obvious to most in the thread so you're not losing that point on anyone JACK.

And just so you know I obviously don't hold ill-will towards you, just try to refrain from bringing politics of any party/kind into the fray please.  Oil's up, economic factors are fluctuating all over the place, financial factors are doing the same, and everyone's thoughts on the matter are pretty valid I think.

For me, personally, I think the price-hikes are excessive.  I think some should be expected but not by these percentages.  That's my take, and I'm happy to buy new toys if things are reasonable.  If not, I'm not happy about it, but I will leave the hobby all together if things get bad enough, and regardless, they're currently to where I'll be cutting back substantially.  If Hasbro selling less to collectors doesn't hurt them then they're making the right decisions.  I cannot imagine this won't come back to bite them in the ass to a degree though, but that's just my opinion.  I just hope they realize WHY collectors maybe aren't hanging in there like they hoped with the Vintage launch is all.
Title: Re: How Much is Too Much?
Post by: Jeff on February 21, 2011, 06:11 PM
It's not the design team's fault obviously, but people in on the financial aspect who could be accused of this...  And Hasbro would hardly be the first large company to make a cash grab in turbulent economic times.  So do I see it as possible?  Absolutely.  I see it equally possible it's retailers and not Hasbro.  Like I said, what's the MSRP these days?  Is it up, or has it remained?  Did it just go up on CW/Legends and Vintage stayed the same?  These are things I'm not sure on...  If MSRP's went up you can start pointing fingers more at Hasbro.  If they didn't, you certainly cannot.  I'm not sure though, I just know prices have gone up.

YES, the MSRP went up.  That's why you're seeing the $8.99 price at HTS and Target and why Walmarts are now heading to $8.96 each.

It was a corporate Hasbro decision to raise prices across the board to deflect rising costs (oil, labor, etc) and keep the stock healthy. From earlier in the thread...

This was not a Hasbro Star Wars team decision to stick it to collectors, it was a corporate strategy to cover rising costs and keep the stock price looking pretty.

During the pre-Toy Fair Investor webcast, Hasbro confirmed that they have started enacting a prike hike on ALL of their toys (http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/02/11/hasbro-idUSN1126860320110211), not just Vintage.

"Hasbro Inc (HAS.O), the No. 2 U.S. toy company, is counting on price increases to combat rising costs of commodities, freight and labor.

The company, which hiked prices by mid-single digits this month, said it will monitor the cost environment closely to see if it has to raise prices again before fall, CFO Deborah Thomas told investors ahead of the toy fair in New York."

Mattel is doing the same thing, planning price increases on all their stuff to cover increases in oil and chinese labor costs.  It sucks, but unless you have a secret strategy for allowing Hasbro to make less money and then still keep investors and Wall Street happy, that's the way it is.

I talked to the guys at Toy Fair and believe me, they get it.  They have been busting their asses to get the hard-core collectors back into the line (new AT-AT, vintage cards, new Jabba, Cloud Car, etc etc).  Do you think they are really dumb enough to say, "awesome we lured all these collectors back into the line, now let's jack up the price and chase them away again!!!" :P

And yes, it's a bit of a coincidence that the announcement came when Star Wars was on a bit of an uptick again, but the price hikes were a wider-spread decision made by guys higher up the food chain than the Star Wars team.

And yes, a $1 increase from $8 to $9 (12.5%) is disproportionate to their target (7%), but that has more to do with increasing more than they need and then allowing the retailers to price-war themselves back down a bit but still cover the price hike that Hasbro claims they need.
Title: Re: How Much is Too Much?
Post by: Nicklab on February 21, 2011, 06:26 PM
This Reuters article on Hasbro from February 11th (http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/02/11/hasbro-idUSN1126860320110211) is absolutely germain to this discussion.

Quote
UPDATE 2-Hasbro counting on price hikes to offset costs

* Says price rises should help fight rising costs

* Does not see costs rising as much as they did in 2010

* Planning for labor rates to rise in mid-teens in 2011

* Shares down 22 cents

NEW YORK, Feb 11 (Reuters) - Hasbro Inc (HAS.O), the No. 2 U.S. toy company, is counting on price increases to combat rising costs of commodities, freight and labor.

The company, which hiked prices by mid-single digits this month, said it will monitor the cost environment closely to see if it has to raise prices again before fall, CFO Deborah Thomas told investors ahead of the toy fair in New York.

Larger rival Mattel Inc (MAT.O) on Feb. 2 also said rising costs of oil and Chinese labor would entail price increases in 2011.

Manufacturers of everything from food to soap to appliances are grappling with rising costs of metals, plastics, packaging paper and labor costs in manufacturing hubs such as China. Many are raising prices to pass the costs to customers, but industry experts worry if the price hikes will stick in a slowly recovering economy.

Hasbro, the maker of Nerf foam toys and Monopoly board games, is planning for labor rates to rise in the mid-teens in 2011. However it does not see overall costs rising as much as they did last year.

Hasbro missed sales estimates in the key fourth quarter on tepid U.S. demand for games and puzzles. The company has forecast a rise in sales and profits in 2011 citing a strong entertainment lineup for 2011, including toys modeled after the movie "Transformers -- Dark of the Moon."

Its shares were down 0.5 percent or 22 cents at $45.47 on Friday morning on Nasdaq. (Reporting by Dhanya Skariachan; Editing by Phil Berlowitz)

This is not fan or collector analysis (despite the fact that a number of people in this discussion have some credibility on the topic).  This is from Reuters, which is one of the leading business news services in the world.  And it is very much the same message:  costs are up.  Labor, materials, transportation....everything.  And it's not just Hasbro.  Reuters cites Hasbro's chief competitor Mattel for comparison's sake in the toy industry, and that increasing costs in China are affecting other businesses as well.

And the reality is that we're talking about publically traded companies when we discuss Hasbro or Mattel.  They have an obligation to their shareholders to stay profitable.  There are no clear economic indicators that this could be a temporary rise in costs which companies like Hasbro or others could try to absorb in the interest of retaining customers.  And even if such a strategy was undertaken, the shareholders could very well vote out Hasbro's current board of directors and put in place new management that would return the company to profitability, and likely increase prices.

I don't think anyone is happy about price increases.  But understanding the reasons why seems very relevent.
Title: Re: How Much is Too Much?
Post by: Jesse James on February 21, 2011, 06:53 PM
It's not the design team's fault obviously, but people in on the financial aspect who could be accused of this...  And Hasbro would hardly be the first large company to make a cash grab in turbulent economic times.  So do I see it as possible?  Absolutely.  I see it equally possible it's retailers and not Hasbro.  Like I said, what's the MSRP these days?  Is it up, or has it remained?  Did it just go up on CW/Legends and Vintage stayed the same?  These are things I'm not sure on...  If MSRP's went up you can start pointing fingers more at Hasbro.  If they didn't, you certainly cannot.  I'm not sure though, I just know prices have gone up.

YES, the MSRP went up.  That's why you're seeing the $8.99 price at HTS and Target and why Walmarts are now heading to $8.96 each.

It was a corporate Hasbro decision to raise prices across the board to deflect rising costs (oil, labor, etc) and keep the stock healthy. From earlier in the thread...

*SNIP*

And yes, a $1 increase from $8 to $9 (12.5%) is disproportionate to their target (7%), but that has more to do with increasing more than they need and then allowing the retailers to price-war themselves back down a bit but still cover the price hike that Hasbro claims they need.

Thanks Jeff, I was assuming the MSRP went up but wasn't positive.  I was certainly leaning more that direction when WM finally went up, but I wasn't sure if Vintage had gone up since they lingered longer at their last price compared to CW and Legends...  So that clears that up.

I hope the last part you said holds true, but so far with TRU out of the game entirely at this point (I know mine haven't gotten anything past Wave 2 on Vintage and even then it wasn't much of it because Wave 1's been abundant), it's pretty unlikely I think.  I think it was Justin or Matt that said that if things had been more incremental, it maybe wouldn't have been such a slap.

But as the overall economic climate changes, things can change with the line.  The cost of oil's certainly been an impact but it's not the only one.  There's obviously the broad economic spectrum at work, from the US Dollar's worth globally, to China's budding middle-class and economy, etc.  Oil's just one major player in the landscape as to why things are going up though.  It sucks.  I'd say the labor issue is equal if not more an issue, myself.  China's changing so dramatically now...  When 90% of your junk comes from there...   :-\ 

It makes me wonder too if Hasbro's considering other sources for manufacturing and labor.  I read a good article not too long ago online about the possible replacement manufacturing countries providing cheap, skilled manufacturing labor.  I can't find the link though, but it was like India, Vietnam, The Phillipines, etc.  But when you're tied to China for so long I cannot imagine any change like that ever happening quickly in any capacity.

Like I said, price hikes are something you've gotta deal with or bail to send a message (or at least dramatically cut back)...  I'm very curious what kind of push back the consumers will give to Hasbro (if any?), and will Hasbro make adjustments?  Only time is going to tell on that.  I just know I'm at my threshold simply because I can't really justify an action figure costing half a tank of gas in my car.  It just weighs funny to me when I look at things like that, which I sort of do everything in that regard.  Too many years being taught that way in Accounting classes I guess.  It makes even the things you love look absurd when you're constantly comparing.   :-[

Anyway, hopefully nobody's pointing their fingers at Hasbro's Star Wars team...  :)  If they are, they've obviously been off-base on that.  They're helpless to beancounters and Lucasfilm.
Title: Re: How Much is Too Much?
Post by: Brian on February 21, 2011, 07:49 PM
I know it isn't necessarily MSRP, and might not be related, but I was reading through Hasbro's Press Release (http://www.rebelscum.com/story/front/Toy_Fair_2011_Official_Hasbro_Star_Wars_Press_Release_136619.asp) where it mentions the "Approximate Retail Price" of $7.99 for both CW and Vintage.  Sure, we won't (and aren't) seeing that, but I just thought it was interesting they were both listed at the same price (which may be a typo too - I didn't see this posted anywhere else off hand).

I'll be curious to see what the true tipping point is going to be with the line.  I think many to most of us have already cut back in some capacity.  I know that I have.  I was never the army builder that many people here are/were, but I've cut back even more in that capacity.  I've also start to just skip many clones.  Part of it may be cloned out, but part of it is that I'm happy enough with the previous versions (thinking of things like Utapau, AT-RT Driver, 501st, AOTC, etc.)  I originally wanted to get a couple more of the Utapau troops, but it sounds like they may have wonky helmets and/or discolorations, so I'll probably just pass.  Same with the recent Stormtrooper - I'm really not a fan of that helmet either, and I have enough of previous versions that I'm happy with, that with the price being that high, I'll just skip it.

I consider myself someone who will always be buying these things in some capacity, unless we hit some crazy price like $15-20 a figure (an extreme of course).  $9-10 is bad enough already, I agree.  I'm already skipping some things, and like Jesse mentioned above, if things got worse I'd likely go to OT only and break it down further from there (or drop the "other" things I collect to increase the SW budget).  The prices are getting hard to stomach, that is for sure.  It does seem to be happening to most toy lines though (Hasbro or otherwise), because I know things like Marvel and DC stuff has been steadily creeping up as well (and GI Joe for that matter).  Like Jeff mentioned in his post, I'm sure the actual Star Wars team isn't real happy about it either, and I don't blame them.  I feel bad in a way that they bear a lot of the brunt of this type of stuff in Q and A's, conventions, etc., because I get the impression that guys like Derryl and co. really are fans of the line just like we are.

It will be interesting to see what the actual tipping point will be to get the majority of people to jump ship.  Would it/could it affect the line to the point that they cut it back further (or even - panic button - drop it altogether?).  I know just in our little community here, we've seen a lot of people quit the line, significantly cut back, or at least start talking about stopping over the past few years.  Not just casual ones either, but people who have rooms and storage units full of this stuff.  That has to be concerning for Hasbro.  Sure, they can talk about "new fans" that have come in with the PT or CW, but for some reason I just don't know that they have the staying power that the older generation has (for the most part anyways).  I look at age groups like my brother (early 20s) or even nephews (10-ish), and things don't hold either the nostalgia or interest for them the way it does for us (with SW, Joe, TF, etc.)  It is an interesting time for the line, that's for sure.

Summing up a way too long post, I'm interested to see what the tipping  point will be for people.  Some have already hit it, and if prices keep rising, many more will.  I think we'll see a line for awhile (through the movie re-releases at least), but I'm wondering how limited it might become after that.
Title: Re: How Much is Too Much?
Post by: Darby on February 21, 2011, 09:43 PM
I think for me, $10 is the end.  $9 is really a bit unthinkable.  I'll start waiting a while to pick up loose unless it's something I have to have.  I set out to complete a carded set of TVC and that's gone now; it's a shame for the brand, because it was coming back.  It will be interesting to see how much the price increase erodes the base. 
Title: Re: How Much is Too Much?
Post by: McMetal on February 22, 2011, 09:05 AM
When Hasbro's stuff gets to be as expensive as Sideshow's stuff, I may be out.

Until then though, I'm not going anywhere.
Title: Re: How Much is Too Much?
Post by: Brian on February 22, 2011, 10:35 AM
I think for me, $10 is the end.  $9 is really a bit unthinkable.  I'll start waiting a while to pick up loose unless it's something I have to have.  I set out to complete a carded set of TVC and that's gone now; it's a shame for the brand, because it was coming back.  It will be interesting to see how much the price increase erodes the base. 

I have been keeping a carded collection of the Original Trilogy TVC figures (so far), and I'm starting to re-think that as well.  I've never been a carded collector, outside of the VOTC/VTSC lines and a few select other figures, but I thought it might be neat to "continue" the VOTC series with a carded set.  Although I've caught up so far (through Han/Luke/R5-D4), I'm really starting to wonder if it is worth it to keep going on this.  I don't necessarily have a place for them at the moment anyways, and with what figures are costing, I don't know if it is the smartest thing to do.
Title: Re: How Much is Too Much?
Post by: CHEWIE on February 22, 2011, 12:27 PM
The higher prices would be a littler easier to stomach if the case assortments and retail distribution were better.  At least if the case assortments were better, then ordering online wouldn't sting so much.  But when they carry forward figures (PEGWARMERS) over and over, and stuff so many repacks in as well, they lose those potential sales.  Should I really be spending $110.00 per case for essentially 5-6 figures I want?  No, I just can't justify it and I will NOT take the figures I don't want to a retailer for them to add to their inventory.

And you see places like Target, who have had the same pegwarmers since AUGUST suddenly jack up those figures by another buck, a lot of consumers are going to shake their heads in disgust.  And obviously there are a lot of factors that go into the rising costs at retail and we probably can't simplify it to just one or two reasons, but it just really is starting to make it a whole lot more difficult for collectors like myself to continue my current buying habits; which were lower in 2010 than I think any year since I graduated from college in 2000.

And it's not like Hasbro doesn't have some quality control issues that they need to take care of... when they have issues with green headed clones (and greening limbs on other troopers), that's an issue.  Has Hasbro addressed this yet?  If they have, I am not aware - but when sales dwindle on those figures, are they going to be honest and consider that their lack of quality control is a factor too?  Did they ever consider that part of the reason that Indiana Jones might have flopped was because the paint jobs on the faces were horrid?  Or the case assortments were a joke?  And Comic Packs - the figure selections were really questionable near the end of the line, which was Hasbro's decision - yet they blamed the demise on collectors.  Hasbro might like to point the finger at us when they think they can, but they are not completely innocent when there are failures in their lines.

I guess I have a lot of frustration with Hasbro lately, really since 2008.  A lot of it is how they come across in the Q&As... really, it's not the end of the world to me if I stop collecting this stuff.  My priorities have been changing over the past few years with being a parent, so this hobby is secondary now... and I have never, ever felt any loyalty toward Hasbro.  If another company took over the line and did a better job, more power to them.
Title: Re: How Much is Too Much?
Post by: Jabba the Slug on February 22, 2011, 10:59 PM
Would it be possible to, in collaboration with other Star Wars-collector websites (Scum, JTA...etc.), make front page reports asking Hasbro to lower their prices for $1 or 2? If Hasbro takes notice of a bunch of different websites doing this (they've said before they sometimes read forums), they might consider doing so. 
Title: Re: How Much is Too Much?
Post by: CHEWIE on February 22, 2011, 11:07 PM
Would it be possible to, in collaboration with other Star Wars-collector websites (Scum, JTA...etc.), make front page reports asking Hasbro to lower their prices for $1 or 2? If Hasbro takes notice of a bunch of different websites doing this (they've said before they sometimes read forums), they might consider doing so. 

Front page reports talking about higher prices are one thing and sort of a way of doing what you're asking; which has been done at a few sites lately. But ultimately, I don't see that making a dent in what we pay for figures.

Can it if it affects the mindset of the market buying stuff?  Maybe, because what's going to make Hasbro take notice in my opinion is if sales start dipping - at which point hopefully the retailers will be willing to drop the prices some, and perhaps something can then convince Hasbro that in order for the line to stay competitive in the aisles, it's going to need to be appealing price-wise and not just rely on the popularity of the brand name.
Title: Re: How Much is Too Much?
Post by: JediJman on February 22, 2011, 11:18 PM
Just something else to consider about all this.  We've seen price hikes at the start of the year over many previous years.  I don't have any insider knowledge to support this, but I do know that Hasbro works with their retailers to help determine an agreed upon shelf price.  Maybe this is just how they go about testing price advances.  Jack up the price at the start of the year and see how well sales go.  If they're good enough, they've set a new base price.  If not, it's easy enough to drop the price back down $1-2 and suddenly people feel like they're getting a deal.  I will not be remotely surprised to see prices back down at $8 by April/May.
Title: Re: How Much is Too Much?
Post by: Jesse James on February 23, 2011, 02:41 AM
I'm certainly not one to poo-poo the idea, but I don't think it would impact Hasbro's decisions on the price-increase.

As was noted earlier in the thread, they were asked first-hand at Toy Fair about the issue and Hasbro's well aware of collector opinion on the hikes...  they're not happy, and as consumers nothing is requiring them to like it.

The only way I'd see them cutting the prices is back is if there is a collective backlash from consumers.  And it's going to probably take more than the "Collector" niche to cause that.  I think if Hasbro sees the "casual" Star Wars consumer start to bail because of the price, then you'll see a real reaction.  Collectors as well, but it's when CLone Wars buyers and the super popular characters start to sit for them that they'll really start to question what the increase is doing to the line.

Will it be enough?  Only time will tell on that. 

I like your optimism on it Jman, but part of that hope's fading for me.  Price fluctuations aren't new though, so you're right.  We'll see I guess.  :-\  I'm seriously just riding this out right now, and waiting to see if I'm going to be here in a year or not.
Title: Re: How Much is Too Much?
Post by: Brian on February 23, 2011, 09:13 AM
I've been seeing a lot of reports on the (local) news how experts are predicting that gas prices will be over $5 a gallon this summer, and they seem pretty sure of it.  I can't see how that's going to help the cost of figures, so this may get even uglier.  I just don't know if I see them going down, at least not by much.  At this point, if we got back in the $8 range for vintage it might be a victory.  You never know though.  Man do I miss the days of paying $4.99 for a figure during ROTS - but so much of that was the volume of stuff that was moving, and slightly different economic times as well.

I noticed that BBTS put the cases and sets up for order for waves 6 and 7.  I always preorder sets there, since our local retail can tend to be a bit iffy.  The cost for a set of six now? $90.  It is always more than retail of course, but now it is $15 a figure.  Compare it to a set of 6 there for Green Lantern Classics (6" figures with a BAF part) - $94, or even a set of 7 for DCUC (with BAF) for $105 I believe.  Prices are up everywhere, but SW prices do indeed seem to be getting out of hand.  Hopefully we'll see some sort of return to normalcy eventually, or I'm going to have to get mighty selective here as well.  It would probably be cheaper for me to just focus on completing my original vintage collection :)
Title: Re: How Much is Too Much?
Post by: ruiner on February 23, 2011, 09:23 AM
If and when gas hits $5/gallon, people won't give a **** about toys.
Title: Re: How Much is Too Much?
Post by: Dressel Rebel on February 23, 2011, 10:38 AM
If and when gas hits $5/gallon, people won't give a **** about toys.

I'll still care about toys.  I'll just care about gas too.
Title: Re: How Much is Too Much?
Post by: Jeff on February 23, 2011, 10:54 AM
Seemed like a good time to drag this thread over here...

Title: Re: How Much is Too Much?
Post by: Master_Phruby on February 23, 2011, 12:54 PM
It funny reading the previous page of people complaining about $8-$9 figures from year a half ago. We still are complaining about the same thing. In fact, some of the figures mentioned are still here.
Title: Re: How Much is Too Much?
Post by: speedermike on February 23, 2011, 01:46 PM
When gas hits 5.00 a gallon, maybe poeple will start thinking that electric cars are a good idea, and not just liberal kitsch.
Title: Re: How Much is Too Much?
Post by: JediJman on February 23, 2011, 02:02 PM
Quote from: Jesse James link=topic=20816.msg502591#msg502591
I like your optimism on it Jman, but part of that hope's fading for me.  Price fluctuations aren't new though, so you're right.  We'll see I guess.  :-\  I'm seriously just riding this out right now, and waiting to see if I'm going to be here in a year or not.

I don't know ...just seems like we've seen this trend play out before.  Price goes up too much.  People gripe.  Price comes back down a little and holds until next Jan.
Title: Re: How Much is Too Much?
Post by: ruiner on February 23, 2011, 02:07 PM
I don't mind paying $8 for a 3.75" figure here and there.  But $10 and I'm out.

I'd rather spend $20 on a nicely scaled and detailed Masters figure:

(http://www.mwctoys.com/images/review_trapjaw_1.jpg)
Title: Re: How Much is Too Much?
Post by: Jesse James on February 23, 2011, 03:50 PM
Speedermike, please keep it to the Pit...  No politics here, period.
Title: Re: How Much is Too Much?
Post by: Master_Phruby on February 23, 2011, 05:15 PM
Quote from: Jesse James link=topic=20816.msg502591#msg502591
I like your optimism on it Jman, but part of that hope's fading for me.  Price fluctuations aren't new though, so you're right.  We'll see I guess.  :-\  I'm seriously just riding this out right now, and waiting to see if I'm going to be here in a year or not.

I don't know ...just seems like we've seen this trend play out before.  Price goes up too much.  People gripe.  Price comes back down a little and holds until next Jan.

That's how you boil a live frog. Drop a frog in boiling water it will jump out. Drop a frog in cold water and slowly up the temp, the frog boils alive.


Sa
Title: Re: How Much is Too Much?
Post by: Master_Phruby on February 23, 2011, 05:28 PM
To me, you have to look at how much debt you are building buying this stuff. You can't sell any of it at a profit right now. The market is flooded. None of it is rare. Maybe its time to stop buying toys for a few years??? How many of you own a house without a mortage and are 100% debt free? No offense guys. I love you all but maybe its time to stop?
Title: Re: How Much is Too Much?
Post by: ruiner on February 23, 2011, 05:30 PM
Are you drunk right now?
Title: Re: How Much is Too Much?
Post by: Jesse James on February 23, 2011, 07:37 PM
Are you drunk right now?

That made me almost spit my drink.

I agree on the frog boiling somewhat, but I still think the line would be hitting a threshold that people, regardless of increment, would be saying "enough is enough".

On the debt thing...  Everyone in the U.S. pretty much carries debt as a way of life.  It's generally only elderly who don't or actually can't.  If that were the larger factor over the price of figures, people shouldn't have been buying any of it in the first place.  To me, if you're over your head in debt you need to avoid toys regardless.  And anything else frivilous till you get out and can control it.  I think most people probably feel that way...  It's just what you should do for your own well-being long-term.
Title: Re: How Much is Too Much?
Post by: Master_Phruby on February 24, 2011, 02:04 AM
Not drunk. I just don't believe it's ok to carry unsecured debt. Its not the way I live. I believe the only thing to get into debt for is property. Even that I just paid off. So I'm 100% debt free at 40.
Title: Re: How Much is Too Much?
Post by: speedermike on February 24, 2011, 09:14 AM
Sorry Jesse.  I slipped.
Title: Re: How Much is Too Much?
Post by: speedermike on February 24, 2011, 09:25 AM
Phurby, I agree about your debt comments.  I will still have a mortgage for 20 years, but outside of that, I'm just about debt free aside from a monthly credit card bill which could get paid down at any time.

Personally, I do not put toys on the credit card.  Cash only.  And back when I didn't have the cash, I didn't buy the figs.

I have NEVER thought of figures as an investment.  They're mine to keep forever.  The investment is the joy they bring me as I see the collection get bigger and bigger, and great figures like Ezavan finally show up.

That being said....at 10.99 a figure, I will not be buying stuff that is "slightly" new.  I won't buy Ceremony Han, I have not bought any TVC clones, or the ROTS Obi-Wan.  I will not buy the Super Battle Droid.  I will be picking and choosing, which I've never done before.

At 8.99, I think I might be a completist, but 10.99 (or 11.99, in the NYC area) no.  Hasbro's lost me after 16 years.
Title: Re: How Much is Too Much?
Post by: Dressel Rebel on February 24, 2011, 06:48 PM
I just don't believe it's ok to carry unsecured debt. Its not the way I live. I believe the only thing to get into debt for is property.

Then be happy with your house and stay out of the business world.  I will leave you with that.
Title: Re: How Much is Too Much?
Post by: Master_Phruby on February 24, 2011, 08:33 PM
I'm working towards owning multiple houses. I'm doing fairly well in the corporate world. At least I know I won't be forclosed on if I lose my job for an extended period of time. Something I do is pay off the credit card every month so they can't charge me 29% interest. I use their money for free. My credit card company hates me because of that.  ;)  I also keep my at least a year's worth of liquid assets available. It's my FU account for when I get tired of working for my current company. Just future proofing my investments.

The thing that worries me though is that I've just completed my 9th Star Wars collection liquidation for a fellow collector's X-wife. I hear the story over and over how boxes and boxes of stuff just keep arriving at the house all addressed to him and no where to put them. Pretty soon simple things like telephone service and electricity get turned off. She has no idea what is going on. She finds out that they have a huge credit card bill and no money in the bank. This goes on for a while and the family get separated. She comes to me to help sell his Star Wars collection. We typically get about 45-55% of the retail price of the stuff. The older stuff like EP1 is given away to charity. She is trying to rebuild her and her children's life and he is living with some friends or his parents. Another family destroyed. Of course, there were other reasons for the divorse but being burried in stormtroopers with no lights pushes things in that direction really well.

I just see these things as signs of "How much is too much?" of this hobby.
Title: Re: How Much is Too Much?
Post by: Jesse James on February 24, 2011, 08:53 PM
Hmmm, yeah I'd agree with that.  I can't say I know one person who has had that happen to them, but yeah...  It's bad.

But that's applicable to every aspect of life...  Guy wants a Harley, buys a Harley on credit, maybe shouldn't have...  Family buys a home and doesn't plan for the rate variances...  Family buys a car they can't afford or which costs too much to even keep on the road...  It happens a lot.
Title: Re: How Much is Too Much?
Post by: Dressel Rebel on February 24, 2011, 09:31 PM
I was more referring to "it takes money to make money."

For example, buying a business for $1 million dollars with credit and making $4 million on the deal - good debt to carry.  I consider that "debt" overhead.

Buying action figures on credit cards with no way to pay the bills - impossibly stupid.

Being "100% debt-free at 40" is fine and good, but you can have a ton of debt at 40 and be making even more money than if you didn't carry any at all.



Title: Re: How Much is Too Much?
Post by: Greg on February 24, 2011, 10:36 PM
The thing that worries me though is that I've just completed my 9th Star Wars collection liquidation for a fellow collector's X-wife. I hear the story over and over how boxes and boxes of stuff just keep arriving at the house all addressed to him and no where to put them. Pretty soon simple things like telephone service and electricity get turned off. She has no idea what is going on. She finds out that they have a huge credit card bill and no money in the bank. This goes on for a while and the family get separated. She comes to me to help sell his Star Wars collection. We typically get about 45-55% of the retail price of the stuff. The older stuff like EP1 is given away to charity. She is trying to rebuild her and her children's life and he is living with some friends or his parents. Another family destroyed. Of course, there were other reasons for the divorse but being burried in stormtroopers with no lights pushes things in that direction really well.

That's not too much. That's just totally pathetic. As soon as toys (or anything non-essential) becomes the top "priority" for someone, to the point of being unable to pay for necessities, it's just totally screwed up. To know that a family was screwed over because of a guy's toy buying is even worse.

I don't hide my age, so if you bother to look you'll see that I'm not one of those guys that is in the "real world" just yet. I'm fortunate enough to have my college being paid for, as well as other things that help me out financially. (hand-me-down car, for starters) However, I do know the importance of prioritizing how money is spent. You won't catch me buying an action figure if I need money for gas or food, or if I have some other expense coming up. I also don't spend beyond my means. I don't have a credit card, so if I can't afford something, I don't get it. If I want it badly enough, I set some money aside and save for it.

Phruby, it's an interesting thought about debt accumulation due to buying action figures. However, I don't see it that way. As was mentioned by someone earlier, I'm paying for the enjoyment that I get out of the toys, which is quite a bit. Same thing with music, movies, and the occasional book. Plus I'm not always losing money when I sell my toys. I find that if i'm patient, I can get 75%-90% of the cost of my loose stuff. Plus there are the "rare" items (Revan, Malak) and big ticket pieces (Turbo Tank, Gunship) that end up skyrocketing in value.

I don't think I've hit the point where I have too much stuff, but I'm always re-evaluating and slimming down my collection. I know I've hit a point where I'm scaling back on how much new stuff I buy, but that's mostly due to the recent $9.00 and $10.00 price hikes. I would've liked 6 of the recent Vintage wave five figures (the whole wave), but I ended up getting only two. When a toy is costing the same as two burritos, 1/3 tank of gas, a trip to the movies, or a Bluray at a great sale price, I start to reevaluate things.
Title: Re: How Much is Too Much?
Post by: JesseVader08 on February 24, 2011, 11:22 PM
Why go into debt to pay for figures when you can just sell your blood.  I save lives and get to play with my toys.  It's win win.
Title: Re: How Much is Too Much?
Post by: Jesse James on February 24, 2011, 11:45 PM
I say take that a step further, and become a lab rat.  Let them test stuff on you.  You're helping create breakthroughs in modern medicine.  And sure you're twitchy now, your finger and toenails fell out, and half your face is numb and makes you drool a little, but you have to turn that those lemons into lemonade.

And by lemonade, I of course mean toys.
Title: Re: How Much is Too Much?
Post by: Morgbug on February 25, 2011, 12:04 AM
Why go into debt to pay for figures when you can just sell your blood.  I save lives and get to play with my toys.  It's win win.

You sell blood?  In Canada?  Seriously?
Title: Re: How Much is Too Much?
Post by: JesseVader08 on February 25, 2011, 01:53 AM
Why go into debt to pay for figures when you can just sell your blood.  I save lives and get to play with my toys.  It's win win.

You sell blood?  In Canada?  Seriously?

The internets baby!  It's the wave of the future!
Title: Re: How Much is Too Much?
Post by: JesseVader08 on February 25, 2011, 01:55 AM
I say take that a step further, and become a lab rat.  Let them test stuff on you.  You're helping create breakthroughs in modern medicine.  And sure you're twitchy now, your finger and toenails fell out, and half your face is numb and makes you drool a little, but you have to turn that those lemons into lemonade.

And by lemonade, I of course mean toys.

So that's why I always drool.
Title: Re: How Much is Too Much?
Post by: Jesse James on February 25, 2011, 01:55 AM
I didn't think we could import Canadian blood because of the Pemmican Count being far too high?
Title: Re: How Much is Too Much?
Post by: McMetal on February 25, 2011, 09:18 AM
The thing that worries me though is that I've just completed my 9th Star Wars collection liquidation for a fellow collector's X-wife. I hear the story over and over how boxes and boxes of stuff just keep arriving at the house all addressed to him and no where to put them. Pretty soon simple things like telephone service and electricity get turned off. She has no idea what is going on. She finds out that they have a huge credit card bill and no money in the bank. This goes on for a while and the family get separated. She comes to me to help sell his Star Wars collection. We typically get about 45-55% of the retail price of the stuff. The older stuff like EP1 is given away to charity. She is trying to rebuild her and her children's life and he is living with some friends or his parents. Another family destroyed. Of course, there were other reasons for the divorse but being burried in stormtroopers with no lights pushes things in that direction really well.

That is sad, but I have to ask - how did she come to acquire custody of (and the accompanying rights to sell) HIS collection? Was this part of some kind of court-ordered settlement? Did he sign off on that idea? Or was this more of a punitive action on her part?
Title: Re: How Much is Too Much?
Post by: Master_Phruby on February 25, 2011, 09:27 PM
Part of the court ordered settlement. She actually got the entire collection.
Title: Re: How Much is Too Much?
Post by: Jesse James on February 26, 2011, 12:02 AM
Well that's a lickity split way to kick the habit.

My gf wouldn't want any of it, even if she did think she'd have gotten something out of it, had we been married and got a divorce.  She told me she'd hate to even look at it, haha. 

That's the key I think.  You have to drive that batshit crazy about toys so they basically don't want it if they leave ya! :P  She'd rather have the cars and house I guess.  Pffftt!  I'll build my 4 walls and roof one PVC POS at a time, thank you!  The ultimate display...  I live in it!  I'll even use the POTF2 Fleet Trooper for sewage plumbing.
Title: Re: How Much is Too Much?
Post by: Jesse James on December 18, 2011, 06:26 PM
I think tha'ts maybe a possibility...  Perhaps the b&m retailers actually pushed for a later online order to move sales along even?  Their influence certainly could go that far.
Title: Re: How Much is Too Much?
Post by: Dressel Rebel on December 26, 2011, 09:26 AM
WOW!  What a price hike over at EE.com for a case of Wave 10 Vintage figures.

Whew.
Title: Re: How Much is Too Much?
Post by: shmashwitdaclub on December 26, 2011, 09:40 AM
yup, BBTS has them listed now too.  No way I am ordering a case....
Title: Re: How Much is Too Much?
Post by: Dressel Rebel on December 26, 2011, 09:45 AM
yup, BBTS has them listed now too.  No way I am ordering a case....

Well, TRU is already at 9.99 and I've resigned to picking up new figures when I see them there.  I've come a long way since finding the AT-AT Commander and Cloud Car Pilot for the first time and passing.

If Walmart and Target follow suit and add $1 to their vintage fig prices, then I might as well continue my case buying habits at EE.

I already do it for Marvel Universe no questions asked.
Title: Re: How Much is Too Much?
Post by: Diddly on December 26, 2011, 07:50 PM
Yikes, I was planning on ordering a case too, but not anymore. At $130, it comes out to $10.83 a figure. Not looking good for retail.
Title: Re: How Much is Too Much?
Post by: Dressel Rebel on December 26, 2011, 08:22 PM
Yeah it's $10 less per case at BBTS for preorder.  But you have to pay shipping.

At EE there are usually free shipping codes

So it's basically a wash.  We're looking at $11 shipped per vintage figure in 2012, and probably close to that at retail $10 plus tax.

I'd like to say that would stop me, but it will not. 
Title: Re: How Much is Too Much?
Post by: shmashwitdaclub on December 27, 2011, 09:32 AM
this is really going to hurt the line...  I am sure that has been said with every price hike though
Title: Re: How Much is Too Much?
Post by: Dressel Rebel on December 27, 2011, 10:26 AM
this is really going to hurt the line...  I am sure that has been said with every price hike though

Yeah and it seems like it never does, somehow.

Plastic crack i tell you.
Title: Re: How Much is Too Much?
Post by: Jesse James on December 28, 2011, 09:30 PM
I dunno...  1 case here and there sells, but I've found that when things hit in any quantity, they don't sell like they did 4 or 5 years ago.  Can the line thrive off stores getting only a handful of cases of any given wave?  I mean, a figure recall like this year was something you used to only see after a movie line's release had saturated the market.
Title: Re: How Much is Too Much?
Post by: GrandMoffNick on December 29, 2011, 11:37 AM
Took out a second mortgage today so I have the cash when I find this wave.
Title: Re: How Much is Too Much?
Post by: Jeff on January 3, 2012, 11:38 AM
So, just to confirm, as has been pointed out in a few other threads, Hasbro's own website is now confirming the $9.99 MSRP for the Vintage Collection, starting with the TPM Stuff (http://www.hasbro.com/starwars/en_US/shop/details.cfm?R=5DAF5370-5056-900B-10C2-A4FC5CD393BC:en_US).

Thought I'd move the price bitching back to this thread for easier discussion...  looking back through this thread, a lot of folks said $10 would be the max...  anyone definitely quitting now?
Title: Re: How Much is Too Much?
Post by: GrandMoffNick on January 3, 2012, 11:47 AM
For me I think all this timing is perfect. A push of CW and Prequel stuff and price raises at a time when I don't have space to put stuff any more just makes it easy to cut way down on what I buy. I'm still a sucker for the Vintage so I'll pay the $10, but if I stop being a "basic figure completist" on CW and Movie Heroes (or whatever it's called) and then cut most deluxe and vehicles and BPs and etc. that I have numerous versions of, I should more than offset the Vintage fig price hike.

Thanks for giving me the nudge I needed Hasbro.
Title: Re: How Much is Too Much?
Post by: JediJman on January 3, 2012, 01:18 PM
Weren't vintage figures already $9.99?  Feels like I've paid that the last 3 months, so not a big change in my opinion.  I'll probably wait for sales to buy doubles, but I'm not going to change my purchasing much.  The thing is, we may be paying more per figure, but we're all buying a lot fewer figures than they used to.  If I buy 100 figures at $10 each. I'm still spending less on SW overall than when I was buying 200 figures at $7 each. 

Now if they go back to releasing 10+ waves per year, then I might have to rethink things...
Title: Re: How Much is Too Much?
Post by: Jesse James on January 3, 2012, 02:10 PM
Well I'm definitely down to "1 of anything I want", at the very least.  I'd already cut back, now I'll just be cut back even further if I even stick around.
Title: Re: How Much is Too Much?
Post by: Brian on January 3, 2012, 02:27 PM
Yeah, I may not change buying habits too much - but I will be more selective.  Just looking what is on the horizon for this year, I'll be primarily sticking to the Vintage Collection anyways and I'll just get more selective there.  I remember when the VOTC line first came out and they were $10 - it seemed high, but at the same time the figures just seemed so awesome at the time it wasn't as bad.  Plus, it was only a handful of figures a year.  I've always been in favor of a slower release schedule each year, particularly now with the higher prices.  I know it is always fun anticipating the next wave (and I do that too), but when I look back at the POTF2 years (or even vintage) where there were sometimes 12-20 new figures a year, just continually shipped, and that doesn't sound so bad.  Granted, those were different times for toys (and action figures in particular), and those numbers may be a bit too low - but 40 or less is fine with me.

We're getting to the point where they are covering so much of what we want or wanted, I can get a bit more selective too.  I found the part of the TPM wave at Target last week, and looking at the figures I missed out on I started to wonder how many of them I actually needed.  Sure, the Daultay Dofine figure looks really well done, but do I care enough about him to pick him up?  Not sure yet.  I'm starting to get away from the "gotta have them all" with the prequel era stuff, and I just don't have the attachment to the background, "blink and you'll miss them" characters like I do with the OT.  Not that I've skipped much from TVC (I'd have to look if I skipped any "new" figures, I don't think so), but if we're looking at a consistent $10 pricepoint I might start to.  The higher price is more acceptable to me if we're always getting high quality, and not 60 figures a year.
Title: Re: How Much is Too Much?
Post by: Jesse James on January 3, 2012, 02:32 PM
I have room to cut back further, I just don't know that I see the value now is my problem...  Is the one figure I get, really worth basically wasting $10?  $9 was questionable...  $8 was tolerable.  But is any modern figure really $10?  I dunno.  That's where I'm at now...  It's not so much the cost, as what is delivered for it.

I look around and think how Hasbro "cuts costs" in paint aps, features...  Sure you get a nice articulated figure, but you see the little stuff they cut, and then they do jack up the price too...  that is disappointing and makes me question if it's even worth it now.
Title: Re: How Much is Too Much?
Post by: Brian on January 3, 2012, 02:46 PM
Yeah, I see what you mean Jesse.  I think you mentioned it elsewhere, but other lines (LEGO, etc.) seem to give you a little more value for your money.  $10 is crazy when you think about it.  I was going through everything over the holidays (and continuing too), including old receipts I had, cardbacks, figures, etc. - and seeing that I used to be able to get figures at WM for $4.77 to where we are now, that's crazy that we're up to $10 now.  Granted, the figures are better for the most part, but double the price is a big jump over that time.  All lines have seen that I think, but SW is where most of my money goes, so it is more noticeable there.
Title: Re: How Much is Too Much?
Post by: Jesse James on January 3, 2012, 02:51 PM
I'm ok around 8 and the current quality level.  For $10 you should really get the works with any figure, 2-packs of some. 

Do you really look at Daultay Dofine and think, "Wow that's $10 worth of action!" though?  :)

That's where my dilemma is.

Definitely looks like the old armies are kaput too.  I cannot fathom buying extras now short of sale prices.
Title: Re: How Much is Too Much?
Post by: Scockery on January 3, 2012, 03:02 PM
I was already looking at just a handful of figures I was gonna get, if I can find them. The increase puts some of those in the "not sure" category, such as the deleted scenes bunch.

I'm still down for Evazan, Death Star Trooper and Kithaba. But I'd even try to get them cheaper off ebay if I can.



Title: Re: How Much is Too Much?
Post by: McMetal on January 3, 2012, 04:51 PM
That's odd, the TPM figures I picked up at Target were still $8.99, I guess it pays if you snag them early sometimes. Plus not having any kind of reset/DPCI change.  :D

I wonder if they'll raise the MSRP on Clone Wars figures as well?

edit: NM, I see TCW has gone up to $8.99 per figure also. Crazy.
Title: Re: How Much is Too Much?
Post by: CHEWIE on January 3, 2012, 05:54 PM
I'll still get the figures I really want, what this does is cut back on my army building and custom fodder.  But TRU will still have their decent sales from time to time - that's when I bought custom fodder this past year.  And maybe Wal-Mart and Target will still sit around $9 this year for basic TVC price.
Title: Re: How Much is Too Much?
Post by: Dressel Rebel on January 3, 2012, 06:43 PM
I will not be deterred.

I've sculpted and casted my own parts, $10 is still a bargain for these vintage figures.

I don't even know where the ceiling is for me to not want them at this point, but it's certainly higher than $10.  And this is a drastic turnaround from a couple years back when the price hikes really started.  Back then I was outraged.  Now I think that if a figure cost $2 extra and you buy 50 figures throughout the year, is $100 really going to stop me from collecting these things that I love?  Nah.  It was just shocking then, and now I expect it.

I actually hope more people do quit, then maybe I'll see a figure on the pegs more than twice all year.

Funny unintended consequence, this is actually raising the cost of operating for scalpers too.  I wonder how much more they can raise the price to actually make this worth it for them to crawl out of their mom's basement in the morning and go try to beat legitimate fans to the toy aisle.  This may also contribute to figures being more readily available.  Because 2011 was the worst year ever for this.
Title: Is the end near?
Post by: MisterPL on January 3, 2012, 07:34 PM
Just because Hasbro recommends a retail price of $9.99 doesn't mean retailers will follow.

Personally I've already pared down my collecting to what I consider to be definitive figures. I stopped the "one of each" habit years ago. $9.99 is more than I've been willing to pay this year but when I see 5" figures from "The Walking Dead" going for $14.99 and 6" figures from Mattel going for almost $20, it's starting to look like a bargain.

That said, isn't the current license agreement supposed to run through 2016? That gets Hasbro to the 3D release of TESB. That could explain the recent push to get new ROTJ figures tooled. They could choose to extend the license for a year or two if they think it's worth it... or not. I know they've claimed in the past that lightsabres are their biggest selling category but I'm willing to bet the action figure line comes in a close second.
Title: Re: How Much is Too Much?
Post by: Darby on January 3, 2012, 07:42 PM
$10 makes it hard to keep going on a carded collection of vintage, but it doesn't put me out.  The decrease in CW figures offsets this, somewhat.  Plus I think the market won't sustain it for long.  At $10 a pop, very few people are going to come out of the movie theater and buy some figures on a lark.  The buy-in for newbies - and this has to be paramount for Hasbro - must be affordable.  Frankly, it's not.  People will buy their super bad ass Darth Maul and check out.
Title: Re: How Much is Too Much?
Post by: Jesse James on January 3, 2012, 07:58 PM
The optomist in me would like to think that the retailers could/would see the line as getting too costly and keep things low, however I just feel like they'll do as they always have.  Eventually one will raise their price, then the next, and then of course WM will follow suit.

One thing I do see as positive, and I've not seen much lately, is that I see absolutely nada outside of the basic vintage line that I have a remote interest in next year.  Their deluxe stuff is turning into utter crap instead of going the way I had hoped (mini rigs).   

Darby's note about the BMF of 2012 was the one I hinted at (which came from him out of NYCC)...  And while that'd be neat, I doubt I'd buy it immediately.  If you wait, patience pays off for everyone generally it seems...  just not the health of the overall line, but if BMF style stuff isn't meant to be, then it isn't meant to be.

I was one of the guys who ponied up when I saw that Jabba The Hutt set for full price, as that's the kind of thing I like/want.  Now?  $16.99 on Amazon...  I should've waited I guess since it seems like the vast majority did as well, and whether I bought it or not, the message has been sent.

The Clone Wars, as noted above, is non-existant so the few figures I would even consider buying are pretty much nixed there.

Movie Heroes is pretty much as easy to pass, just as Legends was.

Seen little to make me think that battlepacks were suddenly going to become cool, or anything close to a bargain either since they generally are several figures you don't want, and one that you do...  Now that there's a figure pricehike, will battlepacks go back up immediately after coming down in price?  That'd kinda be sad/funny all at once.

Vehicles?  Didn't buy any last year either really...  not till clearances anyway.

If Toy Fair is a bust on new stuff for the most part, it could wind up being a relatively inexpensive year by comparison, even with a pricehike on the figures I do want.  It's just a matter of nothing being made that really interests me...  at least at full price.
Title: Re: How Much is Too Much?
Post by: Master_Phruby on January 3, 2012, 08:58 PM
I've said last year that $8.99 was too much. Now $10 is still too much. I never bought a figure at TRU this last year for $10 and I'm not going to start doing that at Target and Walmart too. I wonder if my local RiteAid will raise the price on their 2006 General Reiken to $12 to compensate. Besides, looking at the pictures you guys showed of the upcoming line, there is little to nothing that I want. I really don't need yet another QuiGon Gin, ObiWan and Darth Maul. When I setup my Star Wars room last summer I was amazed how many of these three figures I have. Don't need more.
Title: Re: How Much is Too Much?
Post by: Brian on January 3, 2012, 09:11 PM
Like others have said, the fact that there doesn't seem to be much outside of the Vintage line next year may help me some too.  Not a lot of other stuff to buy (at least SW-wise).  I was looking through Hasbro's NYCC slideshow, and looking at the upcoming waves, I could cut things back a bit if I wanted/needed to.  Beyond the TPM wave, we're looking at this:

Wave 2 - ROTJ Deleted Scenes Figures
Wave 3 - Hoth Luke, Imperial Navy Commander, CW Anakin, Darth Malgus, Darth Vader
Wave 4 - Secura, Nom Anor, 501st Clone, Evazan, Kithaba, Wedge
Wave 5 - Re-release of the Bespin Han wave + Gamorrean Guard

Now, out of those, I'd definitely pick up all of the OT figures (aside from the re-release wave, I think I have enough of those - except maybe Gam. Guard).  I'd also grab the CW Anakin, but I think if I had to pass on the other PT figures included there, I could.  Secura might be nice, but I really don't care much about the EU ones and have lost interest in clones for the most part at this point.  The new 501st might be better, but I was happy enough with the last version I guess.  So, not counting extras, I'd be looking at 11 figures through those four waves.  Not too bad.  I'd get extras of some for sure, but depending how many more waves we'll have for the rest of 2012, it could be a lighter year overall on the SW side.  The only other thing would be vehicles, if we see anything new/spiffy there.

An interesting point about the "buy in" price for new collectors and/or parents and kids.  It does get more and more steep for people to get into the line, and for kids, I think they'd sooner have the Ultimate FX Sabers (we got these for our daughter and nephews, and they really are spiffy for a kids toy).  Although we've gotten away from Legends this year, I still think that Hasbro has built up a pretty good library of "ultimate" versions of the main characters and army builders that they could either re-release or put in two-packs or something to help those people who are new to collecting (or parents buying for kids).  I could always envision 2 packs of VOTC Han and EB Chewie, or the droids, or Obi-Wan/Vader or Obi-Wan/Anakin, or you could extend it to the current BP form of 3-4 figures as well.  Anyways, it will be interesting to see where the line is headed.  The success/failure of TPM 3D (the movie and the Movie Heroes line) could have a decent effect on where things head from here.
Title: Re: How Much is Too Much?
Post by: Daigo-Bah on January 3, 2012, 10:46 PM
I'm surprised at how many times I read "if all the films are released as 3D" from several people on the forums.  Is there anyone that really believes they won't be at least marginally successful?  It won't take much to return what it likely costs to make the film 3D; I mean, they filmed each once, and re-released them repeatedly to theaters and home media.  I can't imagine any of them would be considered failures no matter how low (realistically) the box office returns would be.
Title: Re: How Much is Too Much?
Post by: Diddly on January 4, 2012, 02:04 PM
I have two thoughts on the matter:

1) This seems to happen every year... January sees a massive increase in pricing but then after a few weeks retailers start to war and we eventually get lower prices. Now I'm not going to lie, I'm not happy about paying $9.99 but I'm not going to sit here and say I won't buy anything because I totally will. But I am about to find out what my limit is on these things.

2) How much of these increases are due to licensing fees? I've recently gotten back into LEGO, and while their prices have gone up a few dollars from a few years ago when I bought regularly, the Star Wars line seems to be much more expensive than other lines. For example, the new LEGO Millennium Falcon. Older versions of the ship were around $100, and the new one is $140 for a set with 1200 pieces. Compare this to other larger LEGO sets with the same piece count that cost between $100 and $120. It's much more noticeable in the smaller sets, like the Clone Trooper Battle Packs, which cost around $13, compared to a set from another line that costs maybe $8 or $9. I know Lucas likes money and it isn't cheap to make products with the Star Wars name, so I wonder if maybe Lucas is getting a little more greedy in the crappy economy and Hasbro is forced to push those fees onto us.
Title: Re: How Much is Too Much?
Post by: efranks on January 4, 2012, 07:44 PM
I couldn't tell you what Lego paid for the license or if they pay a royalty on each set.  Some of Hasbro's numbers I've seen before but not what the exact royalty fees are.  They're a calculated percentage on net sales but the numbers aren't public.

But, generally Lego tries to keep the sets priced between $0.10 and $0.15 per piece on sets.  Just looking at a handful of different sets of similar sizes, it looks like the SW sets are in that range.  The new Millennium Falcon (7965) is about $0.11 per piece.  The previous two Falcons, 7190 and 4504 had 663 and 985 pieces respectively.  That's $0.15 for 7190 which was released in 2000 and $0.10 for 4504 which was a 2004 release.

Kings Castle (7946) from 2010 had 933 pieces at $99.99 for a per piece price of $0.11.  But if you look at the 2012 Forest Police Station (4440) with 663 pieces at $79.99 it's $0.13 per piece. Neither of those are licensed.  The 2010 Hogwarts Castle (4842) was $129.99 for 1290 pieces for $0.10 pp on a large licensed set.  Diagon Alley was $149.99 for 2025 pieces and it works out to about $0.07 pp.  The Pirates of the Caribbean Black Pearl is $100 for 804 pieces at $0.12.

You definitely lose some value on the smaller licensed sets.  The Clone Trooper Battle pack from this year, at $11.99 for 85 pieces is $0.14 but the Freeing Dobby (4736) Potter set is the same price for 64 pieces which is $0.19 pp.

I think minifigures may play into it also, but I didn't break that out any further, this was all the math I could do for one night.  But, the bottom line is, while licensed sets seem to be slightly more, it's not significant. 

But you also have to keep in mind, and I remind people of this all the time, Lego and Hasbro can't necessarily be directly compared.  A Hasbro Jedi Starfighter is always a JSF, a Lego JSF is a JSF or a Glock or a kite or plastic dildo.  To fill a box with 100 standard bricks, it doesn't cost Lego any more to make them for SW than it does for City.  It's the license and, if there are any, royalties that add in plus you might see the price per piece change if there are exclusive molded pieces or extra minifigures.

   E...
Title: Re: How Much is Too Much?
Post by: Scockery on January 6, 2012, 09:53 PM
2012 Deluxe is $19.99 at TRU

http://www.toysrus.com/product/index.jsp?productId=12426367 (http://www.toysrus.com/product/index.jsp?productId=12426367)

Of course that's Toy R Us.
Title: Re: How Much is Too Much?
Post by: Jeff on January 7, 2012, 12:15 AM
I thought TRU has been charging $19-20 for the deluxe for a while now... 
Title: Re: How Much is Too Much?
Post by: Nicklab on January 7, 2012, 01:54 AM
I thought TRU had been around $17.99 or so for the Deluxe Vehicles.
Title: Re: How Much is Too Much?
Post by: Jesse James on January 9, 2012, 01:09 AM
Yeah it was $17.99...  that was what I paid for my Yavin Sled anyway.  I don't shop much there, ever, but picked up one of those.
Title: Re: How Much is Too Much?
Post by: Jeff on January 9, 2012, 09:46 AM
I thought TRU had been around $17.99 or so for the Deluxe Vehicles.

Yeah it was $17.99...  that was what I paid for my Yavin Sled anyway.  I don't shop much there, ever, but picked up one of those.

You guys on the coast must have been lucky then...  $19-20 is how it has been here since middle of last year - prices were like this:

The tru receipts give an insight into the prices. The 18.99 are sw deluxe fig & vehicle. 19.99 are sw rapid strike vehicle.

Title: Re: How Much is Too Much?
Post by: efranks on January 9, 2012, 09:56 AM
I don't recall if I saw it on a forum or somebody tweeted it, but I somewhere the price of $32.99 was tossed out for Starfighter sized vehicles at TRU.  Might have been in relation to the new sets coming for the EP1 release.

   E...
Title: Re: How Much is Too Much?
Post by: Jesse James on January 9, 2012, 02:17 PM
Maybe I'm misremembering...  It was one of the only things I bought via TRU all year and it was picked up for me by someone, but I thought he only asked $17.99 for it.
Title: Re: How Much is Too Much?
Post by: CHEWIE on January 9, 2012, 02:35 PM
Around here, the exclusive deluxes at TRU were $17.99 this year, with the regular ones a buck more.

On another note, Wal-Marts in my area that have put out Movie Heroes and CW are $8.96... same as Vintage... a store by my work just put out a case of TPM Vintage, they rang up for $8.96.  If somehow all three lines are the same price at Wal-Mart, I wonder how that will affect things with them all being the same pricepoint.  I'd laugh if Vintage didn't go up, but the other two lines did (maybe that's just me being evil because I don't collect the other two lines).
Title: Re: How Much is Too Much?
Post by: Jesse James on January 9, 2012, 02:38 PM
I'd be fine with that too since I don't buy them either, but that would be evil.

If the deluxes were a buck less that's probably why I figured that then.  I haven't bought a basic anything at TRU in quite a while.  I assumed, if anything, the deluxes would be at least the same price or more.
Title: Re: How Much is Too Much?
Post by: CHEWIE on January 9, 2012, 11:01 PM
I've got the following now from the TPM wave opened:

- Anakin
- Amidala
- Daulty Dofine

Now, as much as I hate these prices, with the quality of these figures, it's worth the price.  The sculpts and articulation are amazing.  But CW and Movie Heroes at the inflated prices seems crazy considering the huge drop in quality (even though they do come with the stands, which are a nice bonus especially considering they have two foot pegs on them).
Title: Re: How Much is Too Much?
Post by: Jeff on January 12, 2012, 01:28 PM
For all those "I'll wait until I see it at HasbroToyShop before I believe it" folks, stuff is popping up for pre-order at HasbroToyShop...

- $16.99 for the Class I (aka Deluxe) Vehicles
- $29.99 for the Class II (aka Mid-Size) Vehicles
- $22.99 for Battle Packs
- $104.99 for the Movie Heroes/Clone Wars Wave 1 cases ($10 more than previous CW cases)
- $114.99 for the TPM Vintage Wave 10 case ($20 more than the Wave 8/9 cases)


Also, I haven't been paying much attention to the BPs planned for this year (since the majority pretty much suck), but I guess I totally missed the fact that they are no longer boxed.  That's sort of a double whammy... reduce packaging to cut cost AND still raise the price... nice.   ::)
Title: Re: How Much is Too Much?
Post by: shmashwitdaclub on January 12, 2012, 02:58 PM
Wow, I hadn't realized that about the BPs either.  I of course only mildly want the clone pack - I wont be in any rush to get it.  Sale prices a go!
Title: Re: How Much is Too Much?
Post by: iFett on January 12, 2012, 03:30 PM
Well ain't that a smack in the pants!?  At least they come with those awesome battle cards!  Takes over almost half of the packaging...sheesh   ::)
Title: Re: How Much is Too Much?
Post by: Diddly on January 12, 2012, 03:59 PM
$22.99 for Commtech Han and SAGA 02 Chewbacca?
Title: Re: How Much is Too Much?
Post by: Jesse James on January 12, 2012, 05:51 PM
Wow...  Just wow.

The Vintage hike suddenly looks like a steal.
Title: Re: How Much is Too Much?
Post by: Master_Phruby on January 13, 2012, 09:27 AM
Well they have to keep the sweat shops going somehow.

I like how you can buy a AAT for $24.99 or $29.99 on the same page.
Title: Re: How Much is Too Much?
Post by: Brian on January 13, 2012, 09:35 AM
I didn't notice the change in the packaging for the BPs before either, that's kind of different.  I guess I haven't looked really closely at the BPs, since they are either crap or don't interest me.  With all the better versions that are available out there now, the use of Commtech Han and CC Chewie is really a slap in the face at this point.  Those figures, while nice for their time, should just be retired at this point.  There might be certain manufacturing/etc. reasons that I don't know or understand to why they use older figures like this, but to me every time you're going to trot out a Han or Chewie repack (or this could go for other characters too), just use the VOTC Han and the EB Chewie.  They are both nearly perfect figures that would also be repacks, and I know I even occasionally buy extras of figures like this since they are the "ultimate" versions.  Same could go for any number of other characters (Luke, Obi-Wan, Anakin/Vader, troops, etc.)

I don't like to get too negative about collecting, because it is supposed to be fun, but this year will really be interesting I think.  I'm still excited, for the vintage line in particular, as I think they are doing some of their best work overall (even with the price hike).  But, the combination of using these old outdated figures, raising the prices, and having a number of action featurey/repacked figures taking up the bulk of the releases elsewhere will really test the line this year I think.  Still not sure how much "kids" are going to care about the TPM re-release aside from a figure or two, and I think the bulk of collectors are going to stay away from that Movie Heroes stuff.
Title: Re: How Much is Too Much?
Post by: Jeff on January 13, 2012, 10:02 AM
There might be certain manufacturing/etc. reasons that I don't know or understand to why they use older figures like this

Here's the reason - $$$$$$$$

They just figure out which factory is going to be running these BPs, then figure out which tools are available at that factory, then figure out the 'best' (and by 'best' I mean cheapest) tool to use to make the figures at that factory.  Pretty much end of story.

For stuff aimed at collectors (like those Target Kenner 3-Packs), yeah, they pretty much used some of the best sculpts they had for each of those figures because they knew they had to in order to get colectors to buy.  But for stuff like this (aimed primarily at kids), they don't care about the "best" version, just "a" version that kids won't hate.

Maybe they could get more cross-sell to collectors if they included better versions, but maybe not enough to justify the increase in cost using those other tools or having to run them at a different factory or whatever.  Or maybe Hasbro figures since most collectors are ignoring this CW/Maul package stuff anyway, why bother?  Why not just crank out the cheap stuff for kids and splurge on the good stuff in Vintage line only?
Title: Re: How Much is Too Much?
Post by: CHEWIE on January 13, 2012, 11:09 AM
Yeah, that does make sense Jeff. 

I think Hasbro finally is realizing they they can't just take for granted that collectors are going to fork over a premium price for figures just because of nifty packaging.  The collector market is a major niche for them and in order to still eat that piece of the pie, they needed to step up to the plate... my fingers are crossed that 2012 will be better in terms of distribution and quality across the TVC line.  The only stinker I see right now is when they use a bulky/large helmet on a Phase 2 clone.  Other than that, I think I've liked everthing I've seen.

With the other lines, they feel they can get away with less effort and still hit their sales goals - while it's frustrating for us, and to a degree if might hurt some sales, Hasbro is banking their reward is high enough to do it.  They're out to make money after all, just like any business should be.

On another note, I wonder if Hasbro looks at all at the collector niche, and thinks they need to keep us interested to a degree because it can help them tap into our kids as a market more too in the future... just kinda curious about that.  That may or not even be on their radar, but I know that what I collect certainly influences the interest level of my son.
Title: Re: How Much is Too Much?
Post by: DoctorPadawan on January 13, 2012, 05:44 PM
As astounded as I was that Hasbro was bringing some old "stinker" figures out of retirement for rerelease, I'm even more astounded at the premium prices they're charging for them.  I mean, come on, you couldn't even give that 2002 Saga Darth Maul away for a dollar back when it came out, and now they're going to try and charge 9 bucks for it, alongside several other Darth Mauls?  Really?

Oh well, outside of Vintage and the, what, five new Clone Wars figures (?) this year, that pretty much means it's all Lego, all the time.  Hasbro, my wallet thanks you, and Lego thanks you. :)
Title: Re: How Much is Too Much?
Post by: darth broem 2 on January 13, 2012, 08:01 PM
The higher prices have shyed me away from buying figures that I don't necessarily want all that badly.  For example, I really want The Deleted Scene Luke, Leia, and Lando.  I would like to get the Mon Calamari Pilot.  I have some interest in Colonel Cracken.  So, if I were to see these 5 figures in the store I'd buy up Luke, Leia, and Lando.  However, more than likely I'll let the other 2 sit there.  I may or may not pick them up later. 

Now compare that to when the figures were around $6.50 or less I would buy them all up without hesitation.  Now it's a "What do I really want to get here?"  I may never pick up those other 2 figures because in another wave I may want Maul, Kenobi, Jinn, but I may let the Naboo Royal Guard, Gungan, and Anakin sit. 

In the end I may end up buying half of the figures I would have bought if they were cheaper.  This kind of thinking on my part increases each time the prices are uped.  It may come to a point where I have to decide "I'm going to pick up Deleted Scene Luke, but leave Leia and Lando on the pegs." 

By that point I am only buying 10% of what is out there where in the past I'd probably by 90-100%. 
Title: Re: How Much is Too Much?
Post by: Brian on January 14, 2012, 12:00 PM
I've usually been one to just keep my collecting relatively the same as the prices have crept up, but I'm starting to get more of the "do I really want this?" mindset now as well.  Granted, I'm sure I'll end up picking up most of them still (particularly with the OT, likely all), but I am getting more selective with fringe stuff and extras now.  For example, with the prequel characters, they can really knock it out of the park with some of the "senator" type characters - and that's cool - but in the end, they are sort of boring in many cases.  Paying $10 for those becomes more of a stretch for me.  New Hoth Luke?  I'm all in.  Daultay Dofine - no matter how nice - has me thinking twice about how badly I really need this character.
Title: Re: How Much is Too Much?
Post by: Greedo The Green Menace on January 14, 2012, 12:28 PM
In cases like the really nice yet boring type figures, waiting for the inevitable sales is probably the best bet, especially with the first wave of a series, which usually ends up pegwarming to some degree as it's usually over saturated, and the kiddies aren't exactly clamoring for Daulty Dofine. If Hasbro can get their case assortments a little bit better this year, then there's really no reason you shouldn't be able to score everything for a decent price with a little patience. There aren't too many figures these days that I have a "must have right this second" mentality on (minus the really cool aliens like Bom Vimdin and such) and Ive managed to get practically everything during 2011's run at a fair price.
Title: Re: How Much is Too Much?
Post by: Jesse James on January 16, 2012, 02:30 AM
I've seen the opinion that, somehow, the Wave 10 figures are more impressive than figures we've gotten in the past say 4 years...  How so?  I'm not saying it isn't true, or I won't agree, as I don't have most of them in front of me to judge fairly, but why would that be?

Did Hasbro suddenly put paint applciations back to 2007 levels?  Because they've been steadily cut for the past 4 years and I've seen nothing in any pic to make me think they're improving in 2012.

Did Hasbro add even more articulation to the figures?  Sure Maul got hip joints now, but so did Endor Luke a couple years ago, and the Clone...  You can't tell me it wasn't a good investment to make in a figure they'll inevitably get lots of mileage out of in the coming years.

Are accessories now of the quality, and quantity, of the latest GI Joe figures or something?

I'm just trying to see why things are suddenly better is all.  They look the same to me as they have been for a while.  To me, the line got better around 2005, and in general the quality plateued around 2007/2008.  The extra wrist/hip joints have been about the only improvement I can think of, and if anything, the line decreased in things like paint aps, accessory counts fluctuating, and arguably the re-use of parts (it works sometimes like on Panno/Endor Rebel, and fails other times like on Medal Ceremony Han).

Out of Wave 10, I've only seen the BD in person, and bought it, and now immediately regret that choice and plan to take it back because, at the price I paid at Target this weekend, that thing had better be 100% flawless.  Paint should be perfect, articulation perfect, and scale shouldn't be off at all.  He should have the necessary accessories, and no skimping on paint aps like a little "scuffed metal" deco at the joints and whatnot.  What I got, is in just about every way, inferior to the Battledroids from the 2-packs from last year.

And while I was all in on this wave just a week ago, now I'm thinking to myself...  Why?  Why buy Amidala at that price?  She's another saltshaker, and I just don't see the value...  She's already off the list if I see her till I find her on sale down the road.  I'm looking at Daultay Dofine similarly, and to me he looks great (don't get me wrong), but I just figure he's so boring that I'll get him later, or not.

Also, the Podracers...  Never really cared much about them, so why should I now?  And they're arguably the best value since they're technically 2-packs, haha.

Some of the Wave 10 are appealing to me still, but now I'm just being pickier.  Even if it's new, I don't feel compelled to own it.

Granted I'm much more interested in Wave 11...  Maybe it's the source material (definitely part of it), but I'm already cutting Wave 10 down to where I don't want nearly as much of it as I did just a week ago.  And screw the thought of buying Obi/QGJ for just the cardbacks and throwing the figure into the fodder pile.  A year ago?  Yes, I'd have done that (dumb on my part as it may be), but not now.  Forget it.  I'll wait for Super Duper Qui Gon and Obi with hip joints, which will be out at some point in the near future I suppose.

In a way it's nice when they completely F up the Battledroid as they did...  I now don't really want any, whereas before I was thinking "Man, finally a battledroid that should be worthy of grand army building".  And I'm even forgiving on the Battledroid compared to some of you guys.  I liked the Geonosis 2-pack ones a lot.  I'd have been 100% happy with him, tan.  He can't cup the blaster with his left hand, but he can at least rest the blaster on it, and that's realistic enough for me.  :)  The new one seems to be an epic fail on the level of the 2003 Hoth Rebel "Dan Akyroid" Trooper...  and at an obnoxious price to boot!
Title: Re: How Much is Too Much?
Post by: Darby on January 16, 2012, 01:08 PM
I think what people are responding to in general (could be wrong) is one, the availability - wow, I can find stuff - and two, the selection.  Which is pretty cool.  The vintage TPM wave is the biggest we've gotten in a long time, and there is lots to like.  It's also mostly improvements on figures 10 years old or more, so for some people it might be especially awesome.

I think where the figures might be progressing is in the sculpts.  You look at Maul, the Naboo Royal Guard, or even Dofine, and you just go, wow.  The portraits and the details are outstanding and I think in some cases, better than even recent examples (this has been a trend upwards for the last year or so).  Articulation and accessories remain stagnant.  Paint apps too.  But the sculpts are killer.
Title: Re: How Much is Too Much?
Post by: Jesse James on January 16, 2012, 02:23 PM
Are they really better than anything in 2007 though?  I don't see it...  Sculpts are about as crisp as they've been for a while now.  The improvement in sculpt detail really started around 2003...  I guess I just don't see how it's better now.  It seems, to me anyway, about where it was.

I can't say I'd reward Hasbro because they actually made things that can be found at retail, or because they made a particularly big wave...  that'll be ending shortly I would imagine, as figure carry-overs begin between waves, and if history repeats itself (which it generally always has) there will be a figure back-up at some point as well...  almost every year at some point they back up with pegwarmers.

Again, not saying there isn't an improvement...  I'm interested to see them in person now, but I guess I have a hard time believing the sculpts are that vastly superior to what we've been getting for at least 4 years now.  I reviewed the Naboo Pilots, and they're cool and great, but they were not leaps and bounds above any figure we got last year, or 2010, 2009, 2008, and for the most part also 2007.  :-\  Definintely miles better than the 1999 Ric Olie, but then again would anyone buy it at all if it weren't?
Title: Re: How Much is Too Much?
Post by: Brian on January 16, 2012, 02:26 PM
Although the TPM wave is pretty well done (for the most part), I think the figures in general have been pretty strong for awhile now.  Sure, distribution (and prices) have often been a nightmare, and sometimes I think that clouds people's view of the line(s).  It goes back before even the TVC line, but I think the majority of the Vintage Collection line has been pretty darn good - and the CW side of things has been as well.  The quality of the figures is great, the trouble is finding (and affording) them I think.
Title: Re: How Much is Too Much?
Post by: CHEWIE on January 16, 2012, 04:07 PM
I think in general, most of the Wave 10 TPM figures are awesome... it seems like in most of the previous waves, we had too many repacks snuck in there... this wave has the most all new figures in there, and the sculpting and details are some of the best I've seen. 

I've got several of each figure now loose and open (except the Battle Droid, I passed on that, and I only got one of Rats Tyrell).... but by and large, this latest wave of figures blows me away.  They are worth $9.00 each that I'm paying at Wal-Mart, and I can stomach $10 too... as long as the consistent quality and variety is there in each wave, I can live with that.  Once we start talking $11 or $12 each, then I'm going to really have to reconsider my spending habits.  But if Wal-Mart can hold these down at $8.96 each, and Hasbro continues with this level of quality and variety in their 2012 lineup, I'll be a happy collector.

An example of the amazing quality is the Daulty Dofine figure... about 5 years ago, we got Lushros Dofine, for around $5.75-$6.50 depending on where you shopped (if my memory serves me right)... the upgrade in detail on this latest figure almost makes all past Neimoidians look ridiculous... heck, Gunray and Haako were $6.99 back in 1999... for a couple bucks more, we get one of the best figures I've ever seen Hasbro make.  And at the time that Dofine came out, quality was all over the place (http://www.rebelscum.com/TSC/TSCstands2.jpg).  A lot of the stuff from TAC was great though, but at the same time, Hasbro was still taking some shortcuts here and there - that was a GREAT collection of figures though for the price.  I was only irked in some circumstances, like when they decided to bypass knee articulation (http://www.rebelscum.com/TAC17biggs.asp).

Now, I don't defend Hasbro on the price when they are repacking old figures time and again with limited articulation, like the Movie Heroes stuff.  But for true upgrades in quality, I'm willing to pay a little more for.  I guess I'd rather see this quality now than a step back in quality, even if that dropped the price by a buck or so.

I guess part of me is also happy that the Movie Heroes are priced so high, and Clone Wars too - because if they *have* to price TVC so high, by comparison, TVC is feeling like a better value.  But if they dropped Movie Heroes down to $5 or so (which seems what those figures should be), then $9 TVC figures really seem like they'd be doomed... I don't know what the right mix is, and I really get pissed at Hasbro when they get stupid on us, but I can not complain about 9 of the 12 figures in Wave 1 and feel like Hasbro has earned every single nickel they got out of me on the 9 figures I decided to throw money at (I feel they should have given both Kenobi and Qui Gon new heads, and the Battle Droid is way too small, so Hasbro didn't get me to purchase those).
Title: Re: How Much is Too Much?
Post by: Jesse James on January 16, 2012, 04:30 PM
If case packs, every time, are basically 12 new figures, I guess I can agree, but since I'm a realist, that ain't gonna happen. :)

Wave 10 will have carry-overs to wave 11 I imagine, and so on... 

There is always a backlog at some point.  It always happens.

I can't wait to see the figures to see if they're really an improvement in detail, but honestly, Lushros Dofine was pretty damn sharp.  There was texturing to his robes that was outstanding, tons of detail...  A lot of people probably prefer him over Daultay's softgoods and such.  So I'm curious to see if he's really great.  From what I've seen though, as far as sculpt goes, I see nothing in 2012 that looks different than anything I saw in 2007 in terms of the detail and likeness.  If anything, 2007 had far better paint aps to highlight the details too.  2012, I assume they're as bad as 2011 and 2010...  and 2009, and 2008 when the cuts in paint aps began.
Title: Re: How Much is Too Much?
Post by: Jesse James on January 16, 2012, 04:34 PM
Which that makes me think ahead to Wave 11...  There are 5 figures:

-Leia
-Lando
-Luke
-McCracken
-Fishboy

sooooooo...  7 repacks from Wave 10?  Who seem most likely?  I'm banking on Maul, maybe Anakin, and I could seriously see Obi and Qui-Gon make a return despite being less than stellar choices for collectors.  I could see the Battledroid return as well, and he's already losing steam with collectors I think, and army building ain't what it used to be at this price, even for the guys who still like the figure.

I could easily see things backing up fast.
Title: Re: How Much is Too Much?
Post by: CHEWIE on January 16, 2012, 05:29 PM
In regards to Daultay Dofine, he has a sculpt that's amazing...

- removable hat
- removable outer cloak (plastic)
- excellent integration of soft goods
- ball joint shoulders
- ball joint elbows
- articulated wrists
- articulated hips
- ball joint knees
- ball joint ankles

Lushros was great for when it came out, but I think side by side, this new Neimoidian blows Lushros out to sea... a somewhat close comparison might be the TVC Senate Guard compared to the POTJ Senate Guard... but Dofine is even better than the TVC Senate Guard, I think.

I don't know what Wave 11 will entail... if there are case assortments announced, I'm not aware.  But, if they have those 5 new figures (which isn't enough new stuff in my opinion), I agree, the repacks need to be carefully selected... and I hope they are not all TPM figures.  Maul, Sidious, Naboo Guard would all be great choices - then I'd hope they go with some other proven sellers, like the Rebel Fleet Trooper, Bastila, ARC Commander, etc.
Title: Re: How Much is Too Much?
Post by: Jesse James on January 16, 2012, 07:16 PM
That's the thing though...  They're likely to want to keep TPM stuff fresh, and they sure like to make sure the mains are in there.  I don't expect them to see to it that, right after 1/30, they're getting the Fleet Trooper and Bastilla Shan into cases along with the Deleted Scene figures, while they're still trying to milk film sales.

I am not really saying Dofine is a bad figure though...  The point I'm making is, is Dofine really better than anything we've gotten in the last 4 years?  To that I say, no (from the pics I've seen, again...  in person maybe I'll change my tune).  His sculpt is no more crisp looking than the Senate Guard, Endor Rebel, AOTC Clone, Fi Ek Sirch (or whatever he is), Bom Vimdin, Ponda Baba, Gammorrean Guard, Scuba Clone Trooper, Imperial Technician, Dak, etc., etc., etc.

Articulation, accessories, softgoods, sculpt...  these things seem fairly standard anymore in the way you described about Daultay Dofine.  I just haven't seen why this is anything more special, other than people can find it (supposedly), and it's a case of basically a bunch of new stuff and an older Obi and QGJ on cards people like.  That's cool, but that isn't going to last I don't think.  It's the start of a new line.  It was like this in 2008 too, and 2008 didn't last.

I'm not saying Daultay should even be compared to Lushros though...  My point was more that what they did really isn't that special compared to anything else they do in the line right now, and have done for some years now, unless again those sculpts are really a notch above...  to me though, sculpts have plateued.  If Lushros Dofine came out now, the way he is and for the new prices, that's so sad it's not even funny and everyone agrees on that for the most part I think.  But that's kinda like, well, the entire array of Movie Heroes retreads they're rolling out for $9 that you can get for like (literally) $1 or $2 right now on a different cardback.

I hope I am wrong though, and that I'm really floored by the TPM Vintage figures when I find them all.  So far the BD is all I've seen up close, and really I'm grossly unimpressed by him.  So far a few others look pretty easy to pass on too now...  I'm just not seeing anything special I guess.   :-\

Someone should just set up shop in a Wal-Mart parking lot on 1/30 and usurp all the sales on all this old stuff, with all the crap they probably overbought years ago.  Why pay $9 when I'll sell you 2 for $5. :P
Title: Re: How Much is Too Much?
Post by: CHEWIE on January 16, 2012, 11:34 PM
I am not really saying Dofine is a bad figure though...  The point I'm making is, is Dofine really better than anything we've gotten in the last 4 years?  To that I say, no (from the pics I've seen, again...  in person maybe I'll change my tune).  His sculpt is no more crisp looking than the Senate Guard, Endor Rebel, AOTC Clone, Fi Ek Sirch (or whatever he is), Bom Vimdin, Ponda Baba, Gammorrean Guard, Scuba Clone Trooper, Imperial Technician, Dak, etc., etc., etc.

Most of those you listed are from the last year, but I do agree, since Legacy, most "new" figures have been pretty dang good.  I think $8 or so is about the right price, and Hasbro is charging a premium because they feel they can due to the packaging nostalgia that a certain percentage of the collecting community feels they "have" to get.  All I'm saying is that if we see continued quality in the line like we are seeing out of the TPM wave, I can stomach $9-$10 a pop.  But if they start regressing back to what we saw with many aspects of the 2010-2011 vintage line (4-LOM, VC #15 Clone, etc.), then I'll be pissed.  I think the first few waves they took for granted the appeal of the packaging design and overproduced Waves 1 and 2, which is what really started the whole distribution issue.



Someone should just set up shop in a Wal-Mart parking lot on 1/30 and usurp all the sales on all this old stuff, with all the crap they probably overbought years ago.  Why pay $9 when I'll sell you 2 for $5. :P

If you're referring to the Movie Heroes junk, I agree with you to a degree because for an educated consumer of this stuff, that's a ripoff.  But at times I can see the perspective of a parent too, as that line isn't meant for us in our mid 30s, they're meant for kids.  Most kids around the age of 6 aren't going to be as anal about the stuff we care about (articulation, accuracy) and they want to really play hard with their toys. So some of these Movie Heroes make sense, I guess - they have some articulation, and can mostly take a better beating than the highly detailed figures... on that spectrum, it's the price hike that is disgusting to me.  But if Hasbro's retail partners have to charge $9 or $10 per TVC figure for it to be worth their while, I sure as heck don't want to see it competing with a Movie Heroes line that is $5 or $6.  After all, there need to be some parents buying vintage for their kids.

I also try to look at this as beyond Hasbro and toys too.  I've noticed that some non-toy products are starting to rise in price with the new year at Wal-Mart and Target, which is just a sign of the times. 
Title: Re: How Much is Too Much?
Post by: Jabba the Slug on February 13, 2012, 11:19 PM
TVC figures went up from $10.99 ('11 TVC) to $11.99 with the new re-launch. Plus, the only figures available at my local Targets are the crappy pegwarmers from last year. This sucks.

There's never any new figures at my store anymore, which severely pisses me off because Hasbro has really been stepping up their game with sculpts. At this point, action figure sculpting is so amazing that each figure looks like a mini-Sideshow Collectables 12" figure.

I'm beginning to officially lose faith.
Title: Re: How Much is Too Much?
Post by: Dressel Rebel on February 14, 2012, 06:44 AM
TVC figures went up from $10.99 ('11 TVC) to $11.99 with the new re-launch. Plus, the only figures available at my local Targets are the crappy pegwarmers from last year. This sucks.

There's never any new figures at my store anymore, which severely pisses me off because Hasbro has really been stepping up their game with sculpts. At this point, action figure sculpting is so amazing that each figure looks like a mini-Sideshow Collectables 12" figure.

I'm beginning to officially lose faith.

Dude where do you live?  I don't get that.  Are you in the USA?

Between Target, Walmart, TRU sales galore and BOGO coupons galore, I must have paid an average of $6-7 per figure, and I bought about 35 figures in the last 5 weeks.

Title: Re: How Much is Too Much?
Post by: CHEWIE on February 14, 2012, 02:36 PM
Yeah, the TRU sales have been outstanding.  I know I haven't been uphappy with the prices I've been paying for new stuff so far this year.

Jabba, do you have a TRU or two in your area?  If so, check them out before their current sale expires.
Title: Re: How Much is Too Much?
Post by: Jesse James on February 14, 2012, 03:12 PM
Same here...  WM's not bumped yet, Target has but hasn't had anything worth buying anyway (WM's been THE place to buy IMO) and TRU isn't close so I don't visit it often but I scored stuff during the sale there.  Their 30% off one now is fair...  Not great, but fair and better than Target more or less.
Title: Re: How Much is Too Much?
Post by: Brian on February 14, 2012, 04:03 PM
The highest prices have gotten in our area is now $9.99 at Target/TRU.  Both Target and TRU have had a pretty consistent supply of the TPM vintage wave, WM had it a couple weeks early and hasn't really restocked since then.  I don't necessarily need more of the wave, but I always like to keep an eye on what's out there (and what's selling).  Honestly, all price hikes stink, but I seem to notice it more right now on the CW and Movie Heroes lines.  There isn't really much there that I'm currently interested in, but it would take a pretty nice figure from those lines to pay $8 or $9 each.
Title: Re: How Much is Too Much?
Post by: Diddly on February 14, 2012, 04:13 PM
Agreed with WM being the place to shop. I've found pretty much everything there, and my one complaint would be that they need to stock more Vintage figs, as all my stores really have are Qui-Gons, Obi-Wans, and figures from the ROTS Wave. But then again ordering TOO much Vintage would be bad. They also have the coolest exclusives (the DTF wave is pretty cool actually, lots of great repacks that blow Movie Heroes away), if the Dewback and co are overpriced. And TRU is worth checking out for the sales even though my local store restocks maybe 4 times a year. Target is just awful right now, with NO selection and the worst exclusive sets, and worst prices to boot.
Title: Re: How Much is Too Much?
Post by: Jabba the Slug on February 15, 2012, 02:16 AM
TVC figures went up from $10.99 ('11 TVC) to $11.99 with the new re-launch. Plus, the only figures available at my local Targets are the crappy pegwarmers from last year. This sucks.

There's never any new figures at my store anymore, which severely pisses me off because Hasbro has really been stepping up their game with sculpts. At this point, action figure sculpting is so amazing that each figure looks like a mini-Sideshow Collectables 12" figure.

I'm beginning to officially lose faith.

Dude where do you live?  I don't get that.  Are you in the USA?

Yup, I live in the Bay Area, California. The only retailers in my city are two Target stores. There used to be a TRU close by, but that closed down in 2005, right after the ROTS line finished its run. I have to travel an hour or so (and cross a bridge) to get to the nearest Walmart, and the nearest TRU is probably a good hour and a half away.
Title: Re: How Much is Too Much?
Post by: Crackbrick on February 15, 2012, 08:16 AM
I reached my point a long time ago.  I pick up a few new vintage now and again (I'll get a Tarkin and Sandtrooper) I did get a Phase 2 Clone but that's about it.  I collect vintage stuff I had as a kid when I see it cheap.
If you think the Hasbro prices are too much (I do) you should try collecting Kubricks.  I'm not just talking about what chase figures fetch in the secondary market, I'm talking about the huge price increase compared to what i paid when these things first came out.  Had to stop those all together.

md