NFL Regular Season 2009

[Dressel Rebel]

I have to say, what Michael Vick did was awful.  It's terrible to torture and kill a living thing.  Any animal.  He went to prison for it and lost millions upon millions of dollars in salary, promotions and endorsements.

He paid a heavy price.

At the same time though, our society is strange.  During hunting season we allow people to take to the woods with guns and bows, and blow a deer's head off in front of it's family, or put an arrow through it's chest, allowing it to escape and suffer and die over the next week.  There's all kinds of inhumane practices with the raising of cattle, pigs, chickens etc. that are horrific. 

I struggle seeing the difference between attacking a deer, and what Michael Vick did with the killing of dogs.  Because it was a dog, all of the sudden everyone loses their minds.

I'm not a vegetarian by any stretch of the imagination.  But I don't see how we can punish Michael Vick for fighting and killing dogs on one hand, and promote the wholesale slaughter of other animals in brutal, brutal ways on the other.

I say let Vick play.  And if someone on the field wants to take aim at him for his past, I'm sure he can handle himself at 6' 215 lbs.

[Matt_Fury]

I have to disagree with you Dressel.  I can't draw a moral equivalency between hunting a deer (or moose, caribou, turkey, etc) for food with the training of an animal to fight and kill another for amusement and then brutally killing it when it loses.  That lack of respect for life is how most serial killers got started!

People like Michael Vick are part of the reason there are stupid laws in various cities have laws against owning certain types of dogs...when all these dogs like to do is please their masters, it's just that they are very powerful.

Pete Rose is banned from baseball for life because he made a few bets (as well as possibly fixed games when he was a manager, but it's been difficult to prove).  Micheal Vick committed, in my eyes, a much more serious offense and he's allowed to play again, as well as make millions of dollars n the sport.

I think Vick, Pac-Man Jones, and all the other people in professional sports should never be allowed to play again as punishment for their crimes, on top of what they get in the courts.  They are role models to kids and letting them play again sends a bad message to everyone.

[Dressel Rebel]

I have to disagree with you Dressel.  I can't draw a moral equivalency between hunting a deer (or moose, caribou, turkey, etc) for food with the training of an animal to fight and kill another for amusement and then brutally killing it when it loses.  That lack of respect for life is how most serial killers got started!

People like Michael Vick are part of the reason there are stupid laws in various cities have laws against owning certain types of dogs...when all these dogs like to do is please their masters, it's just that they are very powerful.

Pete Rose is banned from baseball for life because he made a few bets (as well as possibly fixed games when he was a manager, but it's been difficult to prove).  Micheal Vick committed, in my eyes, a much more serious offense and he's allowed to play again, as well as make millions of dollars n the sport.

I think Vick, Pac-Man Jones, and all the other people in professional sports should never be allowed to play again as punishment for their crimes, on top of what they get in the courts.  They are role models to kids and letting them play again sends a bad message to everyone.

Meh, okay, we can't agree 100% of the time.

So you think then a dog's life is worth more than a deer's life.  Hanging a dog is terrible, but putting a bullet or arrow through a deer's eyeball is just fine, encouraged even.  In either event, you are still causing an animal, a sentient being, agonizing pain before death.  I can't think of many things more awful than pointing a firearm at an animal and inflicting a gunshot wound.  And this is coming from a pro-2nd amendment NRA member and gun enthusiast.

I'm not seeing the distinction, but I'm also not real heavily invested in this issue.  I'm gonna watch my NFL games whether Vick is on the field or not.

I just want to be clear I am not in any way defending Vick.  But he did pay a very heavy price for what he did, and I think it's very selective outrage in our society to demonize him, yet allow and encourage the wholesale slaughter of other innocent, peaceful, sentient animals.

Go Giants.

[Sprry75]

I agree with you 100% Dressel, on the baseless subjectivity of tolerating cruelty to some animals in some situations, but not others, as well as Michael Vick.  Dude's done his time and paid a hefty price.  Give him another chance.

[Matt_Fury]

Killing an animal for food - Good.

Torturing an animal in a fight ring and then brutally killing it - Evil.

[GrandMoffNick]

I am not a vegetarian but pretty close (although that's like saying your sort of pregnant). I never have meat in the house. I don't order it in restaraunts very often. But I love a hamburger and will fall off the wagon when I let myself. And where I would never ever want to go hunting and don't get why people do and think it is a horrible shame people will turn a blind eye to the horrendous way the animal they are eating lived and died in unnatural ways, I still think there is a difference in what Vick did compared to you sitting down to eat a hamburger or even you going out hunting.

I am going to stop now or this won't end and I'll get pissy.

And to get back to a NFL topic, T Jack still sucks.

[JediJman]

I think the key difference for me is in the motivation.  Hunting is permitted in many cases because animals would face overpopulation and starvation.  Talk all you want about the horrors of being shot in the head - that's a mercy killing compared to an animal starving to death across several weeks during the winter.  Most of what's killed is also used for food, which is at least better than what happens to the bodies of those that starve or end up as road kill. 

I'm no hunter.  I don't think I'd enjoy any aspect of the process and I don't think I'll ever truly understand those that enjoy the "sport" of tracking and hunting animals.  That said, I can't believe people would put this in the same sentance as what Vick did.  He raised dogs purely to fight other dogs - their sole purpose in life to hurt/maim/kill other animals.  He's not just a killer, he's forcing animals to kill each other too.  And when they are no longer of use, he drowns or hangs them - two forms of death that are (from what I've heard) some of the most frightening and painful ways to exit life.  I really don't care if you're talking dogs, cats, deer, cow, or kriffing turkies...drowning and/or hanging a deer to kill it still seems a hell of a lot less humane than trying to shoot it from afar.

Vick's motive was not to control the dog population or feed his family - it was a sick perversion for inflicting needless pain.  I could really care less that he lost millions or did jail time - whatever his punishment so far, it was not enough.  Letting him play football again is a total joke.

[Rob]

I'm with Matt... there's a big difference between eating meat and torturing and killing man's best friend for some twisted amusement.  That said, we can do a lot better when it comes to how we treat our food too.  Free range is the way to go.

[Matt_Fury]

Wow....Rob agrees with me and Dressel and I disagree.  What kind of ****** up alternate universe did I land in?   

Go Giants!

[Nicklab]

I agree with you too, Matt.  Hunting is worlds apart from what Michael Vick did to those dogs.

[Dressel Rebel]

You guys can say hunting is totally different than what Michael Vick did - but what a deer feels as it's on the receiving end of bullets and arrows, running for it's life in fear, is no different than what Vick's dogs felt.

That animal is terrified, panicked, and in a lot pain just like Vick's dogs.

But a certain percentage of people eat the deer afterwards before they mount it's head on the wall, so I'm sure that makes up for it  

[Dressel Rebel]

I'm no hunter.  I don't think I'd enjoy any aspect of the process and I don't think I'll ever truly understand those that enjoy the "sport" of tracking and hunting animals.  That said, I can't believe people would put this in the same sentance as what Vick did. 

I'm not saying hunters and Michael Vick are the same thing.

What I am saying is to not kid yourself into thinking that the dog that is hung from Michael Vick's tree is feeling any more pain than a terrified deer that is forced to run for it's life while being penetrated with arrows and bullets.

According to some of these arguments, if Michael Vick breaded and deep fried the dog after he hung or drowned it, then that should make his actions fine and dandy.

[GrandMoffNick]

Go Vikings and Patriots!!!

People are kidding themselves when they think the fear Vick's dogs were feeling, the feer a deer fleeing from a hunter, or the cow that has been stuck in a tiny space for its life while it is fed unnatural foods and then is injured but noone cares and it lives the rest of its life that way until its brought to the slaughter house are all feeling differently. No doubt.

But when we are talking about the motivation the human repsonsible for the animal's death, that is where Vick's is so hard to come to terms with. With that being said we are responsible for the cow's horrible life when we buy the burger NOT just the commercial farmer. But you have to recognize the mind set is different.

[Paul]

Here is a thought, let's get back to NFL talk in this thread, if you want to discuss the otheR issues, there is a Place In The forums for that. 

I watched 4 preseason football games over the weekend.  Almost has me wishing for Monday Night Football.  And getting to watch on Saturday had that College Football feel, especially with some of the play.

[Morgbug]

Sorry, moving to pit.