The Mandalorian - Season 3 (SPOILERS possible)

[GrandMoffNick]

I wouldn't have hated that, but at this point I'm interested in finding out how they get Mandalore back and if they cut some corners so be it.

I feel like we are getting a lot of "here's what I would have done" takes and if that's not what happened then "it's week story telling".

We disagree.

[Muftak]

We do disagree.

Weak storytelling is not subjective.

I want just as much as anyone to be loving this stuff. When it goes down to the pulpy fun action, I do quite enjoy it. The overall story arch is being handled poorly week in and week out. There's fun and inconsequential, and then there's poor set up and payoff.

I have admired Favreau's writing since the 90s. I wish there was a sharper more thoughtful effort being put in here. I know he is capable of it. It just seems the current LFL /Disney grind is giving the writing less and less weight and it is showing in all of these projects.

[GrandMoffNick]

I'm just going to keep my mouth shut on the "weak story telling is not subjective". I'm disliked in this group enough as it is. I hope you enjoy however they decide to end the season.

[Nicklab]

And I have to add, the stuff about the Beskar in Gideon's shuttle...wasn't he the guy who took all the Beskar after Mandalore was destroyed? Wasn't he the source of Mando's own Beskar armor? If Beskar points to anyone on the galaxy anymore, it ought to implicate Moff Gideon himself.

I feel like this is going to bear some fruit in the near future.  There's a fan theory circulating that Moff Gideon was once a Mandalorian.  And someone pointed out one of the Mandalorian House leaders in REBELS looked a little bit like him.  That was still before the time of the purge, and Gideon is known to have been the ISB officer who led the purge.

As for the Beskar on the shuttle?  Well, someone had to break Moff Gideon out.  And there were the Imperial Super Commandos that were under the command of House Saxon in REBELS.  There could have been a cell of them left after the Empire fell.

As for the linking of Axe Woves forces and the Tribe?  I don't think Bo-Katan is necessarily done assembling Mandalorians in preparation for trying to take Mandalore.  Sabine and Clan Wren are out there.  And there's also the potential that Fenn Rau and the any of the remaining Protectors of Concord Dawn are still alive.  Rumors have been circulating that Kevin McKidd might be crossing over from his voice role in REBELS to play Fenn Rau in live action.

[Dave]

I’m still not impressed with much this season.  The end of this one was good to have gotten done I suppose, that detail needed taking care of. 

Also I might be the only one, I don’t need all these cameos.  It takes me out of the story in all the wrong ways.

I'm with you on both counts Rob. 

The Mandalorian show has never been a masterful set of storytelling like Andor, so my expectations are a little different, but I'm still hopeful that they can have a larger story arc with the plot progressing reasonably from show to show in a sensible manner.

I feel like they've got a bunch of different writers coming up with pulpy ideas that consume 85% of the episode and then they just tack on a bit of random plot here and there.  This week's episode felt like that where most of it didn't make any sense in the larger picture, and then the last five minutes was the bit where they moved the plot along.

And I agree that having well known actors/celebrities in cameos can be fun, but it can also be really distracting at times. 

One thing that I'm still confused about is why does Bo Katan need an army and super powerful starships?  Who is controlling Mandalore that she needs to take it back from?  Isn't it just a post-apocalyptic world where some of those native critters live?  There doesn't appear to be an Imperial Remnant or pirates controlling it.

I think we can all enjoy (or not enjoy) parts of this show for different reasons.  Nick and Nick can love the pulpy fun, and Rob and myself can be frustrated by clumsy storytelling while still mostly liking the show.  Its more about missed opportunities to have something really good like Andor.  I do wish they could find a stronger narrative and writing that would hold the story together better even when they've got a side adventure.

I am honestly worried about the just announced Dave Filoni movie that pulls together Mando, BoBF, and Ahsoka.  BoBF was a hot mess with no larger story.  Mando currently has a small story arc around reclaiming Mandalore.  Not sure what Ahsoka is going to be about but it appears its the usual Favreau/Filoni writing/directing/producing crew that did Mando and BoBF, so while my hopes are high based on the trailer and Rebels vibe I'm also tempering my expectations based on their recent track record.

Tony Gilroy absolutely crushed it with Andor.  Maybe that is considered "too serious" for the kids.  I just wish we could get a little more of that cohesive storytelling from Andor and mix in some pulpy fun for the kids to create a better Mandalorian series.

[GrandMoffNick]

My problem with that is "Nick and Nick can enjoy the pulpy fun". If Muftak and Dave don't think theyre driving the story that is fine. I hate the definitive take that Muftak knows good storytelling and I just like pulpy fun. I like how all the side stories seem to play a role in the overall ark. It takes a couple episodes sometimes but it all fits in. It's the least we'll done season I agree. I just don't agree it's bad storytelling (which is subjective)

[Muftak]

As I have stated before, my favorite part of the show is the pulpy action setpieces. If that didn't hold up I wouldn't be watching. My gripes come from the attempts to do a season long storyline with higher stakes, especially since last season's arc was pretty well done but completely negated since.

Maybe bad storytelling isn't what I mean, maybe I am talking about bad story structure. There is a formula to the way a television episode should unfold, the same as the standard structure of a hollywood movie script. Google it, it's a real thing. Even when it subverts expectation, it still follows the road map. Since Book of Boba Fett it seems like we are getting first drafts as opposed to polished finished scripts where all the beats are tied together successfully.

I've got nothing against you, Nick. I don't intend to disparage your tastes, as I said I like the episodic parts of the show a whole lot. I enjoy debating this stuff and exploring my feelings about the show in that way.

[GrandMoffNick]

You'll grow to dislike me Muftak. I have a terrible personality trait of letting a bunch of frustration on a topic being unleashed on one random person.

[Rob]

Does anyone know if this is accurate?  That the Dave Filoni movie will be the end of Mando and Grogu’s story?  If so, did they announce when that movie would happen?  Despite my complaints about this year, I’d like the show to carry on and thought I saw an interview with Favreau that wasn’t too long ago where he was saying they didn’t have any plans to end Mandalorian on some kind of schedule.

https://screenrant.com/mandalorian-movie-universe-dave-filoni/

[Dave]

Does anyone know if this is accurate?  That the Dave Filoni movie will be the end of Mando and Grogu’s story?  If so, did they announce when that movie would happen?  Despite my complaints about this year, I’d like the show to carry on and thought I saw an interview with Favreau that wasn’t too long ago where he was saying they didn’t have any plans to end Mandalorian on some kind of schedule.

https://screenrant.com/mandalorian-movie-universe-dave-filoni/

Based on their recent track record with movies I fully expect this movie to never happen.

If they do want to tie things up eventually across all these characters they should just do it on Disney+ with a final season.

[Rob]

Kathleen Kennedy says that the Dave Filoni climactic event of the MandoVerse movie is “6 or 7 years away”

https://twitter.com/sw_holocron/status/1644964463181791232

So I guess the idea I had in my head that the last link I posted meant two-ish more years of Mandalorian was way off.

[Nicklab]

We do disagree.

Weak storytelling is not subjective.

I want just as much as anyone to be loving this stuff. When it goes down to the pulpy fun action, I do quite enjoy it. The overall story arch is being handled poorly week in and week out. There's fun and inconsequential, and then there's poor set up and payoff.

I have admired Favreau's writing since the 90s. I wish there was a sharper more thoughtful effort being put in here. I know he is capable of it. It just seems the current LFL /Disney grind is giving the writing less and less weight and it is showing in all of these projects.

I get where you're coming from with this.  And I think that it ultimately comes down to this - IS THERE A BIG PICTURE PLAN FOR STAR WARS OVER THE NEXT DECADE+?

I think one of the most apt comparisons is how Kevin Feige has led the effort for the Marvel Cinematic Universe to have a cohesive big picture approach.  But then when you bring that comparison into the conversation, one thing that has distinguised the MCU is that not every project is cut from the same cloth.  Styles can vary.  And the tone of stories can vary as well.

I feel like this is the case for the "Mandoverse" if we're going to call it that.  I do not expect the plot of every episode to neatly dovetail together with every other episode.  The galaxy far, far away is very big.  And I think it's worth exploring both the serious bits, and yes, the pulpy bits too.  And with the promotion of Dave Filoni to a creative executive within Lucasfilm, I think we have someone who is going to be in a position to think from a big picture standpoint.  Will he be Kathleen Kennedy's eventual successor?  I don't think he's quite there, but he worked hand in hand with George Lucas for years.  He knows the world of Star Wars intimately.  I'm excited to see where things go.  And I suspect that the big dramatic turn of the season is coming up quickly.

[Muftak]

I get where you're coming from with this.  And I think that it ultimately comes down to this - IS THERE A BIG PICTURE PLAN FOR STAR WARS OVER THE NEXT DECADE+?

I think one of the most apt comparisons is how Kevin Feige has led the effort for the Marvel Cinematic Universe to have a cohesive big picture approach.  But then when you bring that comparison into the conversation, one thing that has distinguised the MCU is that not every project is cut from the same cloth.  Styles can vary.  And the tone of stories can vary as well.

I feel like this is the case for the "Mandoverse" if we're going to call it that.  I do not expect the plot of every episode to neatly dovetail together with every other episode.  The galaxy far, far away is very big.  And I think it's worth exploring both the serious bits, and yes, the pulpy bits too.  And with the promotion of Dave Filoni to a creative executive within Lucasfilm, I think we have someone who is going to be in a position to think from a big picture standpoint.  Will he be Kathleen Kennedy's eventual successor?  I don't think he's quite there, but he worked hand in hand with George Lucas for years.  He knows the world of Star Wars intimately.  I'm excited to see where things go.  And I suspect that the big dramatic turn of the season is coming up quickly.

From what I read over the weekend, the analysis from people who follow all the behind-the-scenes stuff points to the storyline that Favreau had planned out relied heavily on the plotline for Cara Dune / Rangers of the New Republic, and once she was kicked out of the franchise against his wishes, Favreau basically threw up his hands and put in as little effort as possible to correct course. So I guess that goes a long way to explain why everything seems to be a jumbled mess as far as the season's overarching storyline.

With Favreau running the show and writing the lion's share of the episodes himself, I do expect storylines to mesh and have some kind of consistency of quality...but I guess that's not going to be the case so much if he was forced to excise a main character after the fact and didn't want to play ball, I can understand how things got sloppy.

[Dave]

From what I read over the weekend, the analysis from people who follow all the behind-the-scenes stuff points to the storyline that Favreau had planned out relied heavily on the plotline for Cara Dune / Rangers of the New Republic, and once she was kicked out of the franchise against his wishes, Favreau basically threw up his hands and put in as little effort as possible to correct course. So I guess that goes a long way to explain why everything seems to be a jumbled mess as far as the season's overarching storyline.

I'm not saying what you read is wrong, but that is one weak excuse if that is the case. 

If Rangers is such a key element, then create a new lead character and keep the story going.  Have Mando interact with that person and make it part of the overall story.  There is nothing magic about the Cara Dune dune character.  Heck, its been over two years since Gina Carano was kicked out of the franchise - there is more than enough time to get a Plan B (write some new stories or get a new lead for Rangers).

[Rob]

From what I read over the weekend, the analysis from people who follow all the behind-the-scenes stuff points to the storyline that Favreau had planned out relied heavily on the plotline for Cara Dune / Rangers of the New Republic, and once she was kicked out of the franchise against his wishes, Favreau basically threw up his hands and put in as little effort as possible to correct course. So I guess that goes a long way to explain why everything seems to be a jumbled mess as far as the season's overarching storyline.

If this was the case they should have just recast the character with a new actor.