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Collectibles => Past Hasbro 3.75" Lines => Revenge of the Sith => Topic started by: Morgbug on July 13, 2005, 04:46 PM

Title: Anyone else thinking of dropping the 3 3/4" line?
Post by: Morgbug on July 13, 2005, 04:46 PM
Seriously.

All the news that Hasbro is seemingly releasing for ComicCon has my head pretty much spinning:

-More cup sets with rehashed figures
-Another holo figure
-Lava figures/exclusives
-Clone pilots that were never in the movie
-Clone repaints in bad case assortments
-Box set after box set with odd inclusions (clone pilot?)
-New, largely unnecessary and mostly repaint vehicles

Really, I was looking forward to a bit of a slow down on Hasbro basic figures (regardless of what packaging) but clearly that's not to be.  Worse, they seem to have no concept whatsoever regarding what is or isn't sitting at stores.  I have no qualms about reshipping Darth Vader or any clones (aside from a pilot) but is Grievous, Tarfful, Anakin or Obi-Wan remotely hard for anyone to find???

I just don't get the logic behind these and if they were to be easy to find, packed well (in the sense of assortments) and sensible figures, then fine.  But the only redeeming aspect is about 1/3 of the figures released are new army builders.  The rest is largely undesirable crap.  The kid portion of the market has moved on to Fantastic Four, so all they're doing is pissing off collectors, what many people consider to be the real market anyway. 

I've moved from carded completeist to loose completeist to loose incomplete getting what I want.  I'm finding vastly more appeal in products from Gentle Giant, Sideshow, Master Replicas, Kubrick and others.  Don't get me wrong, I still like the 3 3/4" scale but half the fun is finding stuff myself.  I haven't bought anything for myself in better than a month, Scott finds my stuff for me.  It's easy, uneventful, cheaper and while I'm tremendously appreciative of the help, it's no fun. 

When you start adding up all those factors, I wonder why I bother.  There's clearly lots of other stuff to collect, albeit more expensive, but if we're looking at 200 figures over a two year span that would leave me with a fair bit of money to divert elsewhere or simply not even spend.  Is anyone else out there in the same boat?
Title: Re: Anyone else thinking of dropping the 3 3/4" line?
Post by: Jayson on July 13, 2005, 04:51 PM
I'm quickly appoaching the jumping off point.
Title: Re: Anyone else thinking of dropping the 3 3/4" line?
Post by: dafoo on July 13, 2005, 04:51 PM
I'd be having a hard time figuring out what to do about this, if I were still collecting.

You'll all suffer far more than I will. alas
Title: Re: Anyone else thinking of dropping the 3 3/4" line?
Post by: MetalJedi on July 13, 2005, 04:55 PM
Actually after hearing about all these "new" figures Im seriously considering it. Which is a shame. It used to be fun to go to a store at any given time of the day and find something new. But nowadays thats few a far between.

Hear in the Inland Empire part of SoCal there are more and more "collectors" everyday. All of them running and shoving to get clones and "hard to find" figures. Its ridiculous. With these new case assortments and bad ratios it'll be even harder to get them, especially with a "collector friendly" swap meet every Wed and Sat just around the corner.

With Hasbro going back in time and getting rid of certain other lines i.e. Unleashed there really insnt that much for me. So looks like I'll be saving alot of money. I guess I'll just use that to fill up holes from POTF2 and on.
Title: Re: Anyone else thinking of dropping the 3 3/4" line?
Post by: Nathan on July 13, 2005, 05:17 PM
Not really, no. One of the perks of being a loose incompletist--I've always only bought what interests me and passed on the crap. Although after catching up on the ROTS stuff it looks like I'll be able to pass on quite a bit more.
Title: Re: Anyone else thinking of dropping the 3 3/4" line?
Post by: Mikey D on July 13, 2005, 05:31 PM
Thinking about it?  Yes. 

Will I do it?  Probably not. 

I have too much time and money invested in this line to just drop it.  Most likely, I'll change my focus.  Right now, it's one of every unique regular carded figure.  But setting up my shelves the last few weeks and finding I have multiple Luke Tatooines, Han Cantinas, crappy POFT2 Stormtroopers and not having a spot for them, I think I might just get the best available.  Luckily, I haven't bought the majority of the ROTS figures yet, so I can start there. 

Title: Re: Anyone else thinking of dropping the 3 3/4" line?
Post by: JesseVader08 on July 13, 2005, 05:31 PM
I've moved from carded completeist to loose completeist to loose incomplete getting what I want. I'm finding vastly more appeal in products from Gentle Giant, Sideshow, Master Replicas, Kubrick and others.

I hear you, loud and clear.

When ROTS started, I was so excited that for the first time I started buying 2 of each figure - one carded, one loose.  I liked what Hasbro was doing so much (improved sculpting and articulation) that I wanted to be able to display them in more than one way.

But we're getting into the next line, whatever the hell they're going to call it (The Saga Collection?  I sure hope not - the confusion will be endless), and all I see is repacks.  Repacks.  Repacks.  I could tolerate it with OTC because it was really the first time where there was such an overwhelming ratio of repack to new figures.

But for it to continue in the future, I just don't see me putting up with it.

Maybe if Hasbro was the only option, I'd just put up with it because I'd be happy just to have something with the Star Wars logo on it.  But the fact of the matter is Hasblow is NOT the only kid on the block.  My excitement for Kubricks is growing exponentially in addition to all of the other companies out there:  Gentle Giant, Sideshow, maybe even Master Replicas.

Will I stop collecting 3 3/4" altogether?  Unlikely, because you can't stop a habit that's been in the works for 10 years, just overnight.  But I'm starting to feel my need to be completist ending with Hasbro and I'm going to be a lot more selective - buying what I like, not what I think I "need".
Title: Re: Anyone else thinking of dropping the 3 3/4" line?
Post by: Nathan on July 13, 2005, 05:34 PM
But we're getting into the next line, whatever the hell they're going to call it (The Saga Collection?  I sure hope not - the confusion will be endless)

Not to change the subject or anything, but did Hasbro ever actually use "Saga" to describe the 2002-04 line, or was that merely a fan term? Something I've been wondering....
Title: Re: Anyone else thinking of dropping the 3 3/4" line?
Post by: JesseVader08 on July 13, 2005, 05:37 PM
I think it actually was a fan term.  But if Hasbro doesn't realize that's the name that every fan used to describe the blue carded figures, it really shows how out of touch they've become.   ::)
Title: Re: Anyone else thinking of dropping the 3 3/4" line?
Post by: Nathan on July 13, 2005, 05:40 PM
Indeed. It wouldn't surprise me one bit though. ::)

*weeps*
Title: Re: Anyone else thinking of dropping the 3 3/4" line?
Post by: Diddly on July 13, 2005, 05:53 PM
Yes, I have thought about quitting, but I won't stop unless they do something completely idiotic like cancel the 3.75' line or keep sending out rehashes I don't want/already have.
Title: Re: Anyone else thinking of dropping the 3 3/4" line?
Post by: Pete_Fett on July 13, 2005, 06:15 PM
To be honest, no - will I do what I did for OTC and buy two of EVERY figure released and open up even the POTF2 repacks? Perhaps I'll stop with that and only get one of each figure that is a rehash/repack.

I am certainly disappointed that they are putting in so many repacks - especially when, in cases like Wedge, there is a BETTER version they could have rehashed instead of the one they actually are using. It's like the guy running the show has his head so far up his ass, he can't see the light of day. Not surprising considering that isn't this the same guy that ran the GI Joe line a few years ago when it saw the rebirth of the 3.75" figures? Those black carded two-packs were an endless parade of rehashes - perhaps he's applying the same logic to Star Wars.

Lastly - I really don't see a problem with the line being called "The Saga Collection" - that means it can be abbreviated to TSC or it could be denoted as Saga2 much like we have POTF2 today. Personally, "TSC" is a better choice.

- Peter
Title: Re: Anyone else thinking of dropping the 3 3/4" line?
Post by: Darth Broem on July 13, 2005, 06:17 PM
I am getting close to dumping it really.  I am interested in new figures.  That means either new sculpt of characters that need it IMO like BiB Fortuna or all new figures like the Tonnika Sisters.  But if it's going to be 99% rehash, repack, or repaints then there is not much in it for myself. 

I am already looking more at GG busts and mini busts or even the Kubricks. 
Title: Re: Anyone else thinking of dropping the 3 3/4" line?
Post by: Chris M on July 13, 2005, 06:20 PM
I've just about jumped off the 3 3/4 wagon.

I'm still building a clone army and just grabbing the occassional figure, but for the most part.  I'm done with these figures.  Like I said, I still grab clones and some of the more cool figures and a vehicle here and there but that's it.  My collecting for the past year or so has been focused on vintage and modern Han Solo stuff. 

Couple that with my wife and I wanting a house and there you go.
Title: Re: Anyone else thinking of dropping the 3 3/4" line?
Post by: Ben on July 13, 2005, 06:37 PM
If I do continue, I'll only be buying all-new figures.  I'm getting out of that mindset that I have to have it just because it says "Star Wars" on it or it's an exclusive.
Title: Re: Anyone else thinking of dropping the 3 3/4" line?
Post by: Jeff on July 13, 2005, 06:45 PM
I will continue buying 1 of each carded 3.75" figure until I die... OTC Internet Wedge included.  :-[

I will continue to buy 1 of each "new" 3.75" figure to open and display.

I will continue to buy 1 of each "new" 3.75" scale vehicle, playset, accessory, etc to open/enjoy as I see fit.

I can't quit... I just can't do it.

"It is too late for me, son".  :P
Title: Re: Anyone else thinking of dropping the 3 3/4" line?
Post by: Pete_Fett on July 13, 2005, 06:50 PM
"It is too late for me, son"

Tell me about it - I just can't quit. The day I solidified my standing in not being able to quit, was the day I decided to become a MIP/MOC completist in 1998 when for the three years before that I had simply been a opener only. From that point on when I got two of every item and then retroactively went back and bought all of the POTF2 figures, vehicles, mini-playsets and multi-packs again that was when I declared I was in it for the long haul.

*sigh*
Title: Re: Anyone else thinking of dropping the 3 3/4" line?
Post by: JediMAC on July 13, 2005, 07:06 PM
I can't quit, as much as I may want to with all this upcoming rehashed bull****.  My only option at this point is self-termination.  :P


That said, **** Hasbro.  >:(

They'll definitely be hearing from me in oh... about 48 hours, exactly.  :-X
Title: Re: Anyone else thinking of dropping the 3 3/4" line?
Post by: Gatillo on July 13, 2005, 08:11 PM
I stop buying Hasbro's crap years ago.  I just buy what I like for my loose collection.  If a figure is really cool looking, then I might buy one to keep carded but I don't do that for all figures.  The truth is that about 35 to 45% of the Star Wars line is pure crap.  I have no compulsions. :-X
Title: Re: Anyone else thinking of dropping the 3 3/4" line?
Post by: Vator on July 13, 2005, 08:15 PM
Passed on 90% of the OTC, and am going to pass on 99% of this announced new crap.
Title: Re: Anyone else thinking of dropping the 3 3/4" line?
Post by: Famine on July 13, 2005, 08:25 PM
I can't quit, as much as I may want to with all this upcoming rehashed bull****.  My only option at this point is self-termination.  :P


That said, **** Hasbro.  >:(

They'll definitely be hearing from me in oh... about 48 hours, exactly.  :-X


Please wear your "Alice" shirt? :D

Kevin
Title: Re: Anyone else thinking of dropping the 3 3/4" line?
Post by: Darby on July 13, 2005, 09:32 PM
It's not so much I want to quit as Hasbro is making it very easy for me to do it.  The upcoming Wedge is proof positive the lunatics are running the asylum now, and today's steady stream of rehash/repaint news only reinforces it.  I've been a loose incompleteist since after 1999.  I'm only buying new figures I want (provided they are any) from now on.
Title: Re: Anyone else thinking of dropping the 3 3/4" line?
Post by: Morgbug on July 13, 2005, 10:13 PM
Thanks for the responses guys.  When I initially posted it I knew guys like Jeff, Matt and Pete were sort of stuck and I didn't want to offend them.  In all probability I'll end up with the exclusives and all sorts of other **** as well, if only to get at some of the clones in there.

I spent about $8000 last year (I thought that was a lot until I went to C3 and saw the true lunatics, guys that put anyone here to shame) and that's not insubstantial.  I'd guess maybe 40% went to Hasbro, 20% to vintage and the rest to other collectibles not made by Hasbro and other toy lines altogether. I know that's not anything to Hasbro at all, but it's disappointing to know that they really don't seem to care at all about collectors. 

Is the blue clone (special ops) in the 5 pack cool?  Hell yeah, but since the #6 clone it's based on is the same price as the #41, why the hell are they doing that?  I don't hate #6 as much as some people, but that's just some seriously ****** up logic.  And packing in rehashes?  Why, why, why?  Anakin, fine, but retool it a little, it wouldn't cost much (****, there's no real cost in that box for them at all, it's pure profit) but a clone pilot?  Did I miss it in the scene? No, so take your pegwarmer and shove it up your ass.   Please.  I even like the damn pilots, but put the black pilot in there, give people a reason to want the damn box. 

And rehashing POTF2 stuff (hello, Hoth box?)?  Come on.  You resculpted the damn snowtrooper to give us what was supposedly a better sculpt and now you're re-using the old sculpt?  Huh?  Just huh?

I'm like lots of folks here, I can't just stop either.  I'll still pick up clones.  But honestly, I was at a point where I was going to fill out the 15-20 odd pieces from ROTS that I'm currently missing (from the 1-32).  All these announcements today quashed that thought.  I'll still buy Bail and some Jedi I'm missing because the poses are more neutral than the Saga stuff.  But any of the figs I don't have and are marginal?  **** it.  Same goes for new stuff coming.  Hasbro doesn't want to make an effort for my dollars?  No worries at all, here's a short list of who wants it:

Gentle Giant - busts, statues, bust-ups
Sideshow Collectibles - skip all the Hasbro vehicles and I'm almost good for one
Kubrick's - duh
Master Replicas - sabers, hilts, helmets
Tomy - love those mini-dioramas, but don't know if I'll see more

I can live without Hasbro.  Retail supply up here sucks, so I'm online anyway. 

BTW Matt, ask Hasbro about their retail store and why they seem perpetually sold out of army builders.  Ask them why they always seem to have ****** figures in stock at the same time.  Ask them if they understand.  Yet.
Title: Re: Anyone else thinking of dropping the 3 3/4" line?
Post by: CHEWIE on July 13, 2005, 10:29 PM
I would never consider stopping collecting the 3-3/4" line for four reasons -

(1) I am not a completist

(2) I open everything, who knows where half the weapons are

(3) I am a customizer/diorama builder

(4) I love Star Wars  ;)

 :P

Title: Re: Anyone else thinking of dropping the 3 3/4" line?
Post by: DoctorPadawan on July 13, 2005, 10:35 PM
As much as I bitch (constantly) about Hasbro, and as much as I think this all stinks of "We want this line to fail so we can quit making SW toys" (something I'll touch on in a more appropriate thread), I'm probably going to get at least half of the "final 12" they just announced.

The point isn't that I am getting half of them, but that I'm not getting the other half.  Up until now, I've gotten one of every uniquely sculpted figure in the basic action figure line, EU or not.  If there was a repaint that wasn't gratuitous, I would pick that up.  Now, with repaints of the Neimoidian Warrior and the Wookiee Warrior(s) that are totally gratuitous and not based in any "reality" as it pertains to the film, I've given up on that too.  So, basically, I'm no longer a completist as far as the basic line goes.

I'll keep buying the characters I want, as long as I can find them and as long as Hasbro keeps making them.  Unfortunately, the former is getting more difficult as the days go on, and I don't see the latter being representative that much longer either.
Title: Re: Anyone else thinking of dropping the 3 3/4" line?
Post by: Darth Broem on July 13, 2005, 10:37 PM
Well I just saw pics of the upcoming ROTS 12.  I will undoubtedly be getting many of those.   I actually llike the Anakin and Kenobi exclusive from Target.  Damnit.  I was thinking it was going to be total crap, but unfortunately I kind of like it.  When I kind of like something Star Wars it usually ends up in my house at some point in time.  

Hell I even like that freaking Evlolutions set repaints to.  LOL!

However, 2006 does concern me overall if it's just going to be repacks.  Hopefully they includes some NEW figures.  
Title: Re: Anyone else thinking of dropping the 3 3/4" line?
Post by: Jesse James on July 13, 2005, 10:50 PM
Am I thinking of quitting?

No, not really, but like others, I'm not a carded completist...  I'm not even a loose completist for the line overall.  I pass on many ships anymore, as well as Deluxe figures I find to be a disappointment.

And being that I open everything too, it makes these repacks generally easier on me.  Ironically though I found myself wanting a lot of the stuff from the OTC, like the Jawas, Gam Guard, Sandpeople...  It was nice.

I'm less impressed with the repacks being tossed around right now though.  For instance, the Hoth set is an abysmal failure.  The figures are poor, not just in sculpt, but in articulation.  They're cheap at Toy Shows if you really want a Snowtrooper army.  I got AT-AT Commander figures for cheap out of AT-AT's I bought for cheap...  I'm not impressed.

I'd go a step further than you did Brent, and even say the set would blow even if packed with ONLY the Saga Hoth Trooper.  I think that figure blows too, so short of new figures (insert sarcastic laugh here), the set isn't a winner in my eyes.  Maybe someone's, but not mine.

I like rehashes of good stuff...  I like the #6 Clone (I'd prefer #41), so seeing it doesn't bug me.  I like the Preview Wookiee...  Some rehashes are good.  I like astromech repaints, especially of that spiffy Preview droid.  I'm the only one, but I like the Neimodian too.  Weird, I know.

But, there's a lotta piss-poor re-releases that are going to make a lot of people either A) quit entirely, or B) change their collecting habits dramatically.  Can't blame anyone there.

The Evolutions stuff, that doesn't bug me in the slightest...  So long as it's easy to find.

I see your points in that Hasbro is making it REALLY hard to stay with them and support this line at times though Brent, but even moreso for you being north of the border, but also for lots of different "types" of collectors. 

On another minority note here though, I like the black suited Clone Pilots.  I'm an EU (and fan-fiction) fan though.  And like the Neimodian, I can't say in good faith that it was a good idea considering how many pilots I see on my trips out.  He's dwindled, but still is a pegwarmer.
Title: Re: Anyone else thinking of dropping the 3 3/4" line?
Post by: Pete_Fett on July 13, 2005, 11:05 PM
Thanks for the responses guys.  When I initially posted it I knew guys like Jeff, Matt and Pete were sort of stuck and I didn't want to offend them.  In all probability I'll end up with the exclusives and all sorts of other **** as well, if only to get at some of the clones in there.

You could NEVER offend me on a topic such as this one. My wife and I met through I mutual love of both Star Wars and Star Trek, yet now, even she is like "when is enough, enough?"

God bless the condition known as OCD 'cause it runs through my blood stronger than any midichlorians through Anakin Skywalker - seriously.

Sure I don't army build to the extent of some of the other collectors, but I know I am a crack addict and Hasbro produces my crack. Pure and simple.

As much as I bitch, when the end finally does come, I will mourn the line's passing much in the same way I mourned the loss of the Playmates 5" Star Trek figure line.

Being that I work as a website manager as part of the marketing department where I work, I'm very much in tune with branding and marketing and what helps actually SELL a product. What boggles my mind more than ANYTHING else is the amount of cost cutting Hasbro is willing to do in order to raise their profits in the short term at the expense of the brand. It's almost like someone at Hasbro is angry that they have this license and wants to put the final nails in its coffin. I just can't explain it.

One thing that echos here and on other boards is that if Hasbro actually wanted to, they could produce good product, raise the price point and all of us would still buy simply because the product is good. Like if they went to a line that was nothing but Evolutions Sets for new versions of the core characters and then re-tooled rehashes with Battle Packs, I would actually be okay with that.

It's when they repaint or recast in a translucent plastic a figure that (a) we just got or (b) have multiples of that I get frustrated. I mean Anakin #2 and Obi-Wan #1 are going to start giving Cantina Han a run for his money. They both came carded, they both are coming with Jedi Starfighters, Obi-Wan came with the Target Cup and now they are getting the "Lava Reflection" treatment. While I would have been okay with the Lava Reflection treatment, I would have preferred trhat they use the later release Anakin and Obi-Wan figures instead, if for no other reason that to "mix it up" a bit. However, the scary truth is that I LIKE these Target "Lava Reflect" Anakin and Obi-Wan figures and almost wish that this is how the two figures had been released initially. The bases are nice (albeit they're going to get a lot of use with the sep leaders having them too) and it's almost like Target asked Hasbro to make them 3.75" versions of the Anakin vs. Ob-Wan Unleashed figures.

It's hard when you love a line so much, are friends with other collectors who clearly love the line as well and collectively you all know that if Hasbro would just let your group be the focus group for the line, you would produce FAR SUPERIOR product than Hasbro comes up with.

I no longer buy into the rhetoric that Hasbro suggests figures to LFL and they pick and choose which ones they make. I mean who at Lucasfilm is going "repaint the Nemoidian? BRILLIANT!" I mean really.

I think all of us here would have GLADLY seen the #41 Clone repainted with Green stripes for Gree's grunts, Yellow stripes for Cody's grunts, Red markings as ShockTroopers and Blue markings for the 501st Legion all released as variants to #41 or as newly numbered releases.

Commander Bly and Commander Gree were easy re-tools of the respective figures so I can't blame them there. I also can't really blame them on the Grievous Bodyguard and the Wookie Warriors. The bodyguard sculpt could be better, but it is what it is and there WERE the two variations on color in the movie. These are choices I could see even us suggesting to bolster the army building potential of the line.

As I write this post, I'm still going through all of the pictures on GH and right now I just stumbled on the Crap Battlers and the [du]MPire garbage. Effort was put into developing, sculpting, tooling and manufacturing these turds. And the bread and buttler line gets 15 repaints for the remainder of the year? What a load of **** that is!

Now I'm looking at the Titanium stuff - and while I do think this little line is nicely done. I don't collect it, but if I was an Action Fleet collector, I would view any work on this line to be a HUGE slap in the face, especially with the 6" Titanium vehicles coming out. Also as a 3.75" collector, when I see things like the Titanium Republic Swamp Speeder (or whatever that speeder with the two clones is called), I wonder to myself, if they have this sculpt like this, why can't a version be made for the 3.75" scale too? The toy industry has long had the ability to scale up and down from source sculpts. If they were sculpting this vehicle for Titanium, why not start at the larger 3.75" size and then scale down for Titanium? Perhaps there's a piece of toy making logic that I'm missing, if there is, someone needs to explain it to me... VERY .... SLOWLY, 'cause no matter what you say, I'll still be confused.

Ok - enough ranting for now...
Title: Re: Anyone else thinking of dropping the 3 3/4" line?
Post by: Dressel Rebel on July 13, 2005, 11:40 PM
I would rather perish than stop.
Title: Re: Anyone else thinking of dropping the 3 3/4" line?
Post by: Nathan on July 14, 2005, 12:11 AM
And rehashing POTF2 stuff (hello, Hoth box?)?  Come on.  You resculpted the damn snowtrooper to give us what was supposedly a better sculpt and now you're re-using the old sculpt?  Huh?  Just huh?

And there's the real crux of the problem. I can understand repacking POTF2 when you don't have newer sculpts and you're too lazy to do them, but what the hell is the logic behind using a crappy version when an upgraded one is available??
Title: Re: Anyone else thinking of dropping the 3 3/4" line?
Post by: Jesse James on July 14, 2005, 02:02 AM
I think I can partly explain the swamp speeder, though whether it's a good explanation as to why we don't have the vehicle is up to anyone's judgment, but...

Scaling up and down is possible, but mold toolings are required either way, not to mention that most 3.75" vehicles aren't a one or two piece item but rather are comprised of many individual pieces.  The Titanium Series Swamp hicky is probably rather simple...  2, maybe 3 pieces.  A 3.75" is going to be more pieces, thus more molds.

The second reason, it'd be bigger than the $15 pricepoint I'd think...  You start getting into the issue of "will this sell even if we make it" as you start raising in the price point area.  They can take risks with smaller vehicles, but as price increases so does the potential cost in a failure at retail. 

A scaled up one though would inevitably be more complex than the TS one...  Those are pretty simple (even the details are lacking really.  I've looked them over closely and compared to similar stuff out there they're mediocre at best), but a 3.75" vehicle isn't going to be as simple overall.

The scaling up process is weird too.  I don't think it's as simple as people think...  Not that the sculpting process of an item is the costliest either, so I think that's a non-issue even really, but I think when things are scaled up they're really just resculpted.  I've heard of machines capable of scaling up a small detail, like a headsculpt (I've heard of this done between 1:18 and 1:6 headsculpts), but that's a simple, single piece being "scaled up" (or down).  I dunno that, for instance, a whole figure could be scaled up in one swoop...  It'd have to be done piece-by-piece.  If my understanding of the process is right...  I know that's one way to do things though.
Title: Re: Anyone else thinking of dropping the 3 3/4" line?
Post by: Brian on July 14, 2005, 09:19 AM
I don't think I could ever drop the 3 3/4" line completely, but I can honestly say this is the most frustrated I have been with Hasbro in quite some time.  Again, like others have said, I'm not a carded collector...nor am I a loose completist, but I have bought a number of figures that I later thought "why did I get this?".  I think I will be getting even more selective in what I buy, sticking mostly to Evolution/VOTC style figures, as well as other new sculpts.  The "final 12" that we've gotten a look at now were easy figures for Hasbro to do, and some of them aren't too bad (Clones, astromechs, and army builders are always welcome), but they are still repacks/repaints...and an easy way out for Hasbro.  This will be more acceptable to me if we find out that there is just some great new stuff on the way for the unified line, and this is just the "buffer" in between.

I think overall the news we've gotten so far from Comic-Con from Hasbro has been disappointing.  Repacks, exclusives, repacked exclusives, repacked box sets, repacked vehicles, repaints, retools...re, re, re....just not a lot of truly "new" stuff coming from Hasbro..and that is what is disappointing to me.  I think it makes it even more frustrating since Hasbro is essentially the "big" license for Star Wars stuff, and other, smaller licensees (Gentle Giant, Medicom Kubricks, etc.) seem to "get it" so much better.  Like I said, I just hope that we get some positive news this weekend of the line for the future, and hopefully it won't be as dire as it looks right now.  I don't mind some repacks, combined with new, fan-based figures, but it has to be a more even mix.  No 7 new figures to 31 repacks from the OTC, and no 15 straight repaints from the end of the ROTS line.  They are ok, but spread them out Hasbro.  I do hold out hope that there is more good news to come, either this weekend or in the coming months, regarding the "unified" line...but if this trend continues to be what we've seen so far, I actually do see the line dying off quickly, something I wouldn't have imagined coming so soon a year ago.
Title: Re: Anyone else thinking of dropping the 3 3/4" line?
Post by: Dressel Rebel on July 14, 2005, 09:38 AM


I think overall the news we've gotten so far from Comic-Con from Hasbro has been disappointing.  Repacks, exclusives, repacked exclusives, repacked box sets, repacked vehicles, repaints, retools...re, re, re....

Re...I think that means "King."

And Hasbro is!! Come on, we're getting Commander Bly to lead our evolutions Felucia grunts, we're getting Commander Gree, a nice 501st army to gun down our jedi, more variety for our wookiee armies....not so bad.

However, if they're throwing in new paint jobs on grievous' guard and neimodian guard, I think we'd all like to have rather seen Cody grunts and shock trooper repaints instead on clone 41.

But all in all, I think we're getting some cool stuff, and figures we want like Cody are undoubtedly coming anyhow, probably next year.
Title: Re: Anyone else thinking of dropping the 3 3/4" line?
Post by: vegastrooper on July 14, 2005, 09:42 AM
Toward the end of the saga line is when I stopped collecting one of everything...all I collect now are troopers...just can't get small army building out of me yet...that cut back helps with my GG bust/statue and newly formed Koto collections.
Title: Re: Anyone else thinking of dropping the 3 3/4" line?
Post by: CHEWIE on July 14, 2005, 10:49 AM
I agree with Dressel... I am kinda let down by all the rehashes, but for the most part they are of army builders.  I can live with that (for now).  Clones, Wookiees and more Clones.  An army-builder's dream.

 :P
Title: Re: Anyone else thinking of dropping the 3 3/4" line?
Post by: Morgbug on July 14, 2005, 10:07 PM
I agree with Dressel... I am kinda let down by all the rehashes, but for the most part they are of army builders.  I can live with that (for now).  Clones, Wookiees and more Clones.  An army-builder's dream.

 :P

The clones are fine, they'll sell no matter what.  But rehashing figures that aren't even moving as it is?  Army builder or no, there's tons of Wookies and Neimoidians everywhere I look, regardless of which side of the border it is.  Mixing these in with the basic 1-24 re-releases is what will make it difficult to get those clones we all want.

I'm not suggesting there's nothing good out there, but how hard will it be to come by Bly and Gree?  For many of us, not so easy because of the other crap activity that Hasbro is doing.  I still like the stuff, by and large, but they aren't making it even remotely easy and I shouldn't have to burn gas every week just to find a ******* toy.  I don't mind going to a toy store, but they're all clogged with Neimoidians, Wookies, Jedi, Pilots and other crap that they're repacking?!? 

I guess all I really want is for them to actually grasp the market fully, not in some half-assed we don't give a **** kind of way they seem to keep doing.  Believe me, had you been at the Q&A at C3 you'd have seen the smugness by and large.  They love the ass kissing and can't handle criticism.  Force Battlers have more new sculpts than the basic line?
Title: Re: Anyone else thinking of dropping the 3 3/4" line?
Post by: DoctorPadawan on July 14, 2005, 10:32 PM
Quote
Believe me, had you been at the Q&A at C3 you'd have seen the smugness by and large.  They love the ass kissing and can't handle criticism.

Hasbro (or back in the beginning of POTF2, Kenner) has always been like this to a certain extent with the SW line.  If it wasn't smugness it was disdain and spite from the SW team/reps toward the people buying the figures/vehicles/dolls/whatever.  Sometimes this was thinly veiled, but other times it was much more blatant.

I've made several jokes about the Hasbro Random Response Generator, and it's based on the fact that between 1996 and 1999, Hasbro had the exact same responses to every single question that was asked of them, with very little variance.  No matter how respectfully delivered, no matter what medium of asking it (email, in person, letters), Hasbro always threw the same responses out as a way of "answering" the question.

One of my most memorable Hasbro "incidents" was when a young lady was appointed by Hasbro to, more or less, be the SW brand's representative online and at conventions.  The major SW collecting forum at that point was the RASSC newsgroup on Usenet, so she began posting/reading there as part of her job description.  This lasted a little over a few weeks, because once she realized it wasn't going to be the Land of Happy Fluffy Bunnies with Strawberry Scented Farts and that it was actually a community of people who wanted real answers, she turned tail and left.

(It should be noted, however, that some less scrupulous people began to attack the Hasbro rep's physical attributes and personal life, which I found distasteful and irrelevant.  So, while her unwillingness to accept criticism of Hasbro was one part of it, the personal attacks were, sadly, another part.)

Every Hasbro online rep since then has been of a similar mold.  Noncommital or vague answers to questions are the norm, and have been for as far back as I can remember.  Certain sites toe the company line a little too well (you know what site I refer to) in a "you scratch my back, I'll scratch yours" type of arrangement.  As long as nothing bad is ever said about the Big H, everything is just fine.  But the moment you ask a real question that doesn't involve Boba Fett guns or "You guys rule!", Hasbro and its reps become evasive, silent, or at worst downright hostile and rude (see JediMAC's conversation with them last SDCC).

Hasbro is, more or less, unwilling to recognize, correct, or learn from their mistakes.  In the ten years of doing modern SW toys, their case assortment flaws have been repeatedly pointed out to them, and they continue to use the same type of system, and it always results in a glut.  The only line that did not use their typical system was the Power of the Jedi line, and with the exception of that Ellors Madak wave, the pegwarmer problem practically dried up.  More than that, Hasbro is not even willing to admit they make mistakes.  They are always looking to place the blame on retail or collectors or someone else; Hasbro is NEVER WRONG.

Too many pegwarmers?  Retail's fault for overordering.  Poor case pack ratios have nothing to do with it.

Having problems finding a figure?  Retail's fault for not ordering enough.  Poor case pack ratios have nothing to do with it.

No Vehicles?  Retail won't support them (but buy the new MF for the third time, okay guys?).

12 Inch line cancelled?  Lack of retail and collector interest.  Poor character selection and a rapid decrease in quality has nothing to do with it.

And, trust me, by Toy Fair 2006, Force Battlers, Attacktix, the Target Micro Collection, and Jedi Force will be long gone and Hasbro will blame the retailers, instead of admitting that they made poor choices and made total crap that nobody wanted.  People will be complaining about their inability to find the various Clone repaints that Hasbro got around to about three months too late, but it's retail's fault for not ordering enough (when their pegs were already crammed full with Neimoidian Warriors that Hasbro is *still* shipping in upcoming cases), or it's our fault for "not hunting enough."  The rumored 2 inch Unleashed line will fall flat on its face, and if the line makes it past the summer of 2006 at all (I'm referring to all SW stuff, outside of the Sideshow dolls), I'll be very surprised.

Title: Re: Anyone else thinking of dropping the 3 3/4" line?
Post by: dafoo on July 14, 2005, 10:41 PM
Where shall this report be filed? will it be audio?

*is giddy with anticipation*

Does anyone else find this crazed additude from Hasbro nutty? I mean, come on it is JUST toys, not national security. Get over yourself and make some toys people will buy.  Don't you LIKE money?!  MOney is good, you should want more.  Give me something I'll buy 100 times and you'll have more money.
Title: Re: Anyone else thinking of dropping the 3 3/4" line?
Post by: Rob on July 15, 2005, 12:30 AM
I certainly won't drop the 3 3/4 line.  But my completist standards have dropped considerably since the OTC repack line started.

I now could care less about repacks or repaints - only significant paint changes like various clone troopers where the paint change makes it into a technically different character interest me.  I'll pick that kind of stuff up regularly.  Same thing with head swaps ala the imperial officers.

But if they want to add some paint detailing or weathering to some character and slap it in a new package - screw it. 

I'm not interested in grabbing my 4th Ponda Boba or my 5th Greedo or what not.  It's getting disturbingly old when there are so many new figures out there waiting to be made.

I am, for the record, okay with improving on older inferior sculpts - i.e. that Skiff guard Lando was great.
Title: Re: Anyone else thinking of dropping the 3 3/4" line?
Post by: Jagdohh_Fett on July 15, 2005, 03:16 AM
I'll be sticking around, but I won't be picking up much of the new stuff other than the basic figures.
Title: Re: Anyone else thinking of dropping the 3 3/4" line?
Post by: knashdx on July 15, 2005, 07:29 AM
My collecting of 3 3/4" figures has been seriously deminished. I only collect Original Triology figures and Jedi Knights. If it is a re-released figures (Most of the OTC line) I don't purchase it unless it is an army builder (Stormtoopers).
Title: Re: Anyone else thinking of dropping the 3 3/4" line?
Post by: DoctorPadawan on July 15, 2005, 10:12 AM
I just thought I'd point out some unintentional humor on the "other site" this morning.  In their latest Q&A update, RS.com had a chance to sit down with the Hasbro reps at SDCC and ask some questions of them for the edification of the RS readers.  Now, before I start, let me just say that I am not attacking RS or Mark for this; this is merely to point out how Hasbro likes to toe the company line no matter what.

The first thing is that EVERY ANSWER HASBRO GAVE says the same thing they've been saying for years, that being vague methods of avoiding the question, and in many cases, outright lies.  Here's a few gems that made me laugh and cringe:

-Unleashed as a 7 inch line is over, although "the possibility exists for more in the future."

-Attacktix is a success and is selling out all over the place.   :o

-Attacktix, Force Battlers, and Jedi Force will all be returning in the new year  ::) :o

-Hasbro is, predictably, aware of the demand for a figure of Commander Cody and there exists the possibility that he will be done in the future.

-Hasbro is keeping a close eye on what is and isn't selling at retail and once retail completes its fall resets, everything will be a utopia in the SW aisle again and nobody will have any problems finding the new figures and/or vehicles.

So, again, Hasbro doesn't really answer any questions, denies that their secondary lines are bombing (while bragging about how well they are doing and how they're coming back with more next year), sidesteps a question about the most requested figure right now (Cody), and tries to make it seem like they are actually cognizant of what is or isn't selling, while they crank out more Wookiee Warrior and Neimoidian Warrior repaints for the end of the year.  ::)
Title: Re: Anyone else thinking of dropping the 3 3/4" line?
Post by: Morgbug on July 15, 2005, 12:39 PM
Typical.

Laughable.

Pathetic.

Frustrating.
Title: Re: Anyone else thinking of dropping the 3 3/4" line?
Post by: Darth Broem on July 15, 2005, 02:13 PM
It's not surprising though.  Like I mentioned before Hasbro wants to put themselves in the most positive light as possible.  Everything is just fine and all that jazz. They are not going to admit to screwing up anything or that lines are not selling well, etc.  If they say anything negative it will spun away from their company.  It will either be the retailers' fault, non-collector interest, or something along those lines.  Never, "oooops we botched up there didn't we?  Sorry for that."   For now they are bent on trying to sell this stuff and say it's fantastic or in their words "awesome!"  They probably have had a good year overall and they will tell you about that.  Hence their decisions are right on que.
Title: Re: Anyone else thinking of dropping the 3 3/4" line?
Post by: Brian on July 15, 2005, 02:29 PM
That is true, any blame is often (or always?) shifted elsewhere.  I really think it would go a long ways if Hasbro would show up to one of these Q and A's and just do a simple "our bad" on a few things.  I think it would improve many collector's opinions of them and their company if they could/would do something like that.  I suppose it isn't exactly common these days to hear a company say they screwed up, and it might be unreasonable to think that they would, but if it were possible it might go a long ways in their collector-company relations.  Whether they want to admit it or not, we (collectors) for the most part are their future...and they know it.  It would be better for everyone if things could just be straightforward, and if both sides could come together on certain points.  For example, I think many of us will admit that repacks are probably a bit of a necessary evil...and to be honest, I am sure they do help Hasbro improve their "profit", so I don't necessarily have a problem with it...within reason.  I think many people would feel this way.  Heck, if you want to do repacks...just poll the collectors...we'll pick 'em for you :).  Anyways, hopefully the Q and A today will go well, and what is coming up for 2006 will be something that makes the community happier.
Title: Re: Anyone else thinking of dropping the 3 3/4" line?
Post by: Morgbug on July 15, 2005, 02:35 PM
Of course they've had a good year, there was this little movie that came out... :P

I'm not expecting them to be negative, just truthful and that's not practical or realistic.  

Our JediForce figures have already been dumped (clearanced) and we aren't getting the later waves.  Same for the Force Battlers - the first wave is dead here.  I did note that in the US wave two is out in force and I didn't see much of wave 1, perhaps they are selling there.  

Attacktix, which I didn't think was awful when I saw them at C3 has sold poorly here and in my US travels I see a ton of the early stuff sitting (Boga = flop?).  That's a success?  It was popular at C3 with kids, but how many of those kids were there on their own?  It's highly probably that mom/dad were fans previously so there's a natural fit.  But retail sales = good?  Doubt it.  Selling out?  My ass maybe.

Dumping Unleashed?  Let's put aside for a second I both like and collect that line.  Is there any hotter property in the Star Wars catalogue right now?  Lava Vader and Target Clone?  Maybe, but sure not generating the interest UL is.  The line started very, very slowly for them but how as a company do they measure success?  McFarlane produces a very similar product and sells it at a lower cost, so is it because UL is too expensive to produce?  Nah, can't be.  Still like to see a rationale explanation of this one.  

Fall resets?  Maybe in the US, but not up here.  Hasbro reps don't go anywhere near retail here and have never, EVER taken stores off shelves.  It sits there until it moves, period.  While that's of little consequence to US collectors it's a death knell for the line in Canada.  

Having spent the day at a dozen retailers in the US yesterday, I seriously question the sanity of repainting the Neimoidian and Wookies.  Great, now we can have multi-patterned peg warmers. ::)
Title: Re: Anyone else thinking of dropping the 3 3/4" line?
Post by: Nathan on July 15, 2005, 02:39 PM
Bah. Everything is either "we will not rule out the possibility" or "there's always a chance". I can see why they don't want to promise anything and thus paint themselves into a corner, but it's still rather annoying.

"Because Darth Sidious’ final lightsaber design developed so late in filming, Hasbro didn’t have time to prepare one for this year. However, considering how well the role play line has preformed and how incredibly cool the character's scenes turned out to be, the Sidious saber remains a consideration for release at a later date. Mace Windu’s Episode II and III saber on the other hand will probably not be released. As a secondary character, it’s difficult to justify the expense of developing a completely new saber."

Huh? "Secondary character" my eye! >:( In AOTC Mace probably had more screentime than Palp, so why is Sid's saber under consideration but Mace's is not?

And melodrama aside, how much work can it be to create a new handle, I mean honestly?

"Everyone is extremely happy with how well the line has done, the key this time around was not letting retail over order the initial assortments. Product is already on it’s way to fill any gaps on the shelves and close attention is being paid to what’s moving and what’s slow. As the stores reset for the Fall, there should be plenty of Star Wars toys to go around."

Yah. Sure. ::)

That is true, any blame is often (or always?) shifted elsewhere. I really think it would go a long ways if Hasbro would show up to one of these Q and A's and just do a simple "our bad" on a few things. I think it would improve many collector's opinions of them and their company if they could/would do something like that. I suppose it isn't exactly common these days to hear a company say they screwed up, and it might be unreasonable to think that they would, but if it were possible it might go a long ways in their collector-company relations.

Eggzackly.

Quote
For example, I think many of us will admit that repacks are probably a bit of a necessary evil...and to be honest, I am sure they do help Hasbro improve their "profit", so I don't necessarily have a problem with it...within reason. I think many people would feel this way. Heck, if you want to do repacks...just poll the collectors...we'll pick 'em for you :).

Certainly. I really don't mind repacks at all, as long as they are well-chosen and spaced out. In fact in the Hey Hasbro! forum I have a big list of repacks I would really love to see (for example, EpI Eopie).
Title: Re: Anyone else thinking of dropping the 3 3/4" line?
Post by: Brian on July 15, 2005, 02:43 PM
Quote
Our JediForce figures have already been dumped (clearanced) and we aren't getting the later waves.  Same for the Force Battlers - the first wave is dead here.  I did note that in the US wave two is out in force and I didn't see much of wave 1, perhaps they are selling there. 

Attacktix, which I didn't think was awful when I saw them at C3 has sold poorly here and in my US travels I see a ton of the early stuff sitting (Boga = flop?).  That's a success?  It was popular at C3 with kids, but how many of those kids were there on their own?  It's highly probably that mom/dad were fans previously so there's a natural fit.  But retail sales = good?  Doubt it.  Selling out?  My ass maybe.

Dumping Unleashed?  Let's put aside for a second I both like and collect that line.  Is there any hotter property in the Star Wars catalogue right now?  Lava Vader and Target Clone?  Maybe, but sure not generating the interest UL is.  The line started very, very slowly for them but how as a company do they measure success?  McFarlane produces a very similar product and sells it at a lower cost, so is it because UL is too expensive to produce?  Nah, can't be.  Still like to see a rationale explanation of this one. 

That's something I was curious about too after reading that RS Q and A this morning.  It sounds like they have every intention of continuing on with these "other" lines (aside from Unleashed, and also, Jedi Force I think was a "most likely")..and I'm kind of surprised.  None of them seem to be doing exceptionally well from what I have been seeing.  Target and Wal-Mart are sitting on piles of Jedi Force stuff, particularly the vehicle/bike stuff.  The figures at Target have started to slim down from what I've seen.  Somehow, the first wave of Force Battlers finally disappeared from Target (taken in the back maybe? I can't believe that they all sold), and the 2nd wave is hanging out now.  The clones and Chewie have sold, Mace sits.  Wal-Mart is buried under piles of Anakins and Obi-Wans.  Attacktix does seem to be slimming down, but I guess I really don't pay enough attention to that area to be sure.  The "exclusive" lines like Micro and Titanium seem to be pretty thick, although I don't think you can find the first waves of either right now in town.  Anyways, I've said it time and again, I kind of wish Hasbro would streamline things down a little bit.  There's just too much Star Wars stuff out there in retail land...which is partly understandable for a movie year...but clean it up for next year.  I think it will only hurt in the long run having 50 different lines out there at once.