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Community => JD Sports Forum! => Topic started by: Jeff on June 18, 2015, 12:58 PM
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Blackhawks win, their fans celebrate. For the other 29 teams and their fans... the draft is just 8 days away! :P
I'm ready to see how the summer plays out for the Wild.
Do we resign Dubnyk? What about our other two goalie trainwrecks? Do we trade someone to open up cap space? Do we trade any RFAs (Granlund, Haula) because we can't sign them?
Looks like our first move may have happened today - Matt Cooke placed on waivers; buyout next? (http://www.startribune.com/matt-cooke-placed-on-waivers-buyout-next/308195341/) I guess the Pens can go ahead and have him back, Jesse. :D
Not what I was expecting to be our first salary cap move of the off-season. I guess there wasn't a good trade market for him... can't say I'm surprised about that.
I liked most of what Cooke brought to the Wild the past couple years (intensity, corner work, PK), but at the same time there were too many flashes of the "old" Matt Cooke. Questionable high hits and of course the knee-on-knee on Barrie in 2014 playoffs. Add in the injuries of last Spring and I can't say I'll miss him too much.
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I'm afraid this thread is just going to devolve into the "Jeff tries to keep his expectations in check" thread these next three weeks...
#mnwild #dubnyk4vezina #dubnyk4hart #suter4norris #brodin4ladybyng #koivu4selke #parise4messier
Ok, now you've become delusional. Dubnyk is playing very, very well. But the wheels may fall off sooner than you'd like. It may not be until next year, but the Vezina and Hart trophies are year long trophies, not last third of the season stuff. Even still, I'd say Price is ahead in both.
How about that. Plus the Ted Lindsay. And the Jennings.
What I said I said not because Dubnyk wasn't stellar, I said it as much because Price was having a better season for a longer period of time plus I think the Wild overall are a better hockey team than the Canadiens. Better balance front to back, better mix of age and youth, probably better management at the moment and less headache-y players too. So I think Price had less to work with maybe.
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I've finally come off the high of the last week and the joy of a third Cup in my lifetime. I have been blessed to be a fan of Chicago teams that have won Championships in every sport that I care about. Bear, Bulls, White Sox and Blackhawks. My wife is the only one in the house that is still holding out hope that this year will bring her Cubs a World Series. I will support her in her misery later this year when that doesn't come to fruition... Again...
Now the focus goes from the joy of seeing them win, to the heartbreak of who will be leaving the team to make Cap space. I just really hope that they can keep the Saadfather for many more years to come. He has definitely emerged as one of my favorites on the team. And I was glad to see TVR make it back from the patella injury. He started off having a great season and it was too bad he got sidelined for as long as he did.
Unfortunately I have a feeling that Sharp and Oduya are gone (assuming Oduya recovers from elbow surgery and someone takes him) and wouldn't be surprised if Bickell is no longer on the bench come the season opener. I'd like to see them try to get something done for Vermette but I'm not going to hold my breath. I think that Richards would likely resign for more than last season but it's just a matter of whether they want to pay him or use the money elsewhere.
Going to be an interesting off season for sure!
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I'm kinda feeling Bickell will be on your bench come September. Exactly what would you move him for? Of course with the obvious relationship between the Hawks and Jets management, we might end up with him ::)
Sharp gone for sure. Oduya's return will be small. Think you'll lose some other pieces too, especially if you're keeping Saad.
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Lotta teams after Saad, including his hometown. :-X One of the few I think we'd give up big for.
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Blackhawks aren't letting Saad go... and he's on record as wanting to stay. Fingers crossed... I figured Oduya was as good as gone, that some team would throw a little too much money at him and he'd take it.
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James Neal and the Pens said the same thing. Just sayin'.
That said even if he was to leave, I don't think he'd wind up here given $ situation.
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Sure, but I'm hoping the chance to play on a team with 3 recent championships is worth something to him too.
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I don't think anyone wants to leave Chicago right now, be it Saad or someone else. But a couple of all-stars and 21 million tied up in two players under a $71 million salary cap says guys are going to have to move, like it or not. Saad is an RFA, the Hawks don't have to pay him THAT much really. But if they don't, he's likely to walk once he reaches UFA, winning team or not.
Loyalty is a dead concept. The "home town discount" is going to amount to far less than $1 million/year difference. Rest assured if he gets a bridge deal at $2.5 or so, it'll be harder to sign him after that two beyond his two remaining RFA years. Every team in the league wants Saad. While I don't think anyone will offer sheet him with a ridiculous offer because of the compensation associated with high end deals, it still might happen. But an unsatisfactory deal, economic reality be damned, isn't going to sit well if the Leafs come calling two years down the road offering $6/7 million per. Chicago just can't afford that.
Toews+Kane+Hossa+Shaw+Seabrook+Keith+Hjalmarsson+Crawford = nearly $50 million dollars in salary next year. It's going to be hard to move Bickell, but easy to move Sharp. But even discounting those two if they're moved, you've got 8 guys on a 23 man roster making $50 million. Teravainen is a bargain, but if you don't get much for Bickell or Sharp or Oduya (well you won't get anything here because he's UFA but it'll leave a big hole) or Versteeg in return, it won't be quite as pretty. As it currently shows, Chicago has $7 million in cap space and 10 guys unsigned. Eep!
Again, great organization right now. Really run well, some absolute top end talent spread throughout the positions. Don't think you could find a guy that wouldn't want to go there. Oh, oh. Salary Cap.
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what Brent said...
So many names thrown around here for wingers, but a lot hinges on who we'd unload on D, and dead weight. Oshie, Kessel, Sharp, etc.
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I don't think anyone wants to leave Chicago right now, be it Saad or someone else. But a couple of all-stars and 21 million tied up in two players under a $71 million salary cap says guys are going to have to move, like it or not. Saad is an RFA, the Hawks don't have to pay him THAT much really. But if they don't, he's likely to walk once he reaches UFA, winning team or not.
Loyalty is a dead concept. The "home town discount" is going to amount to far less than $1 million/year difference. Rest assured if he gets a bridge deal at $2.5 or so, it'll be harder to sign him after that two beyond his two remaining RFA years. Every team in the league wants Saad. While I don't think anyone will offer sheet him with a ridiculous offer because of the compensation associated with high end deals, it still might happen. But an unsatisfactory deal, economic reality be damned, isn't going to sit well if the Leafs come calling two years down the road offering $6/7 million per. Chicago just can't afford that.
Toews+Kane+Hossa+Shaw+Seabrook+Keith+Hjalmarsson+Crawford = nearly $50 million dollars in salary next year. It's going to be hard to move Bickell, but easy to move Sharp. But even discounting those two if they're moved, you've got 8 guys on a 23 man roster making $50 million. Teravainen is a bargain, but if you don't get much for Bickell or Sharp or Oduya (well you won't get anything here because he's UFA but it'll leave a big hole) or Versteeg in return, it won't be quite as pretty. As it currently shows, Chicago has $7 million in cap space and 10 guys unsigned. Eep!
Again, great organization right now. Really run well, some absolute top end talent spread throughout the positions. Don't think you could find a guy that wouldn't want to go there. Oh, oh. Salary Cap.
No horse in this race, but this is dead on. Most guys play for two reasons, the money and the glory. With "glory" checked off the bucket list, it comes down to money. Sports fans tend to over romanticize the concept of players turning their noses up at making big dollars playing for a loser. Of course, the inverse is true when a player is at the end of their prime with no title to show for it, they sometimes take a lesser deal to play for a team that can realize championship dreams.
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I get all that, and maybe it's wishful thinking, but both sides want to get it done and Stan Bowman's a creative guy... I'm hopeful he can sort it out. If he can't, at least it paid off with a cup this year.
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I love the draft. Trades, picks, signings. Fun, fun, fun. :)
Waiting to see if we sign Dubnyk or if we trade for a different guy... do we trade Spurgeon for offensive help... do we sign Granlund of give up on him... should be a good night.
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Really enjoyed the first round of the draft, watched the whole thing. Some nice surprises, quite an exciting day. Quite pleased to not be a Bruins fan, but have to say thanks to their group because no way did I see Kyle Connor falling to the Jets at #17 :o Naturally Chevy turns around at #25 and has me going ??? so it's pretty much a perfect Jets first round. Honestly I'd have taken Juulsen, Larsson, Beauvillier, Konecny or Kylington ahead of Roslovic but the Jets have drafted well so I'll trust them on this one.
Was very surprised the Wild took Eriksson Ek instead of White. I really liked White and thought he was seriously undervalued due to injuries and illness this year. Was hoping he'd fall to 25.
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Chuckle. Harkins falls all the way to #47 and Jets say 'yes, please'. Surreal. Most were talking of him being a first rounder and many Jets fans would have been happy with him at #25 oa. Not quite sure about the remainder of the picks, but those first three? Oh hell yeah. Chevy likes his 'Mericans.
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Dubnyk six years, $26 million, 4.33 AAV.
Excellent contract if he sustains his play. Word of caution: goalies = voodoo cuz they're all batshit crazy.
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Gee, Rangers give up Cam Talbot and trade Hags. The first I understand. I don't think after the way Talbot stepped in and played as good as Lundquist that he would want to stick around and be back-up. But Hags? Man, he inspired. I don't know what the front office is thinking, but I would think they'd want to get someone to rally the team and unload St. Louis and Nash since they aren't performing when it counts.
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Was very surprised the Wild took Eriksson Ek instead of White.
That makes me LOL because of this...
The popular opinion among the Wild blogosphere is that the Wild will absolutely not pick a player with high offensive upside. Heck, we even share that opinion- the title of our most recent podcast is called "The Inevitability of Colin White". (http://www.hockeywilderness.com/2015/6/26/8851521/minnesota-wild-2015-nhl-draft-chuck-fletcher-brent-flahr-pick-20-first-round)
Everyone assumed they'd take him if he was available because he's almost a prototype of what the Wild look for in a pick.:P
Not sure I know much about Ek other than he's "a Swedish Mikko Koivu" or whatever. Time will tell, I guess.
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I did not know that. Huh. So the Wild went "off board" for their pick. Well done. Perhaps not as extreme as Boston but that's likely not a good model to follow this year. :-X
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It's going to be hard to move Bickell...
Unless of course the old Garth Snow comes back masquerading as a guy named Sweeney. :-X
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So Chicago just upped and traded Saad. Didn't see it happening like that but oh well.
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So Chicago just upped and traded Saad. Didn't see it happening like that but oh well.
I'm still in shock over this. Going to take me a while to get over this one... I like to believe that Bowman knows what he's doing considering the teams he's put together over the last several years and the number of Cups they've won. However, I for one considered Saad as part of the 'Future of the Franchise' players to go along with Towes and Kane, so it's really hard for me to understand this move. Please someone help me make sense of this.
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Please someone help me make sense of this.
Suggestions are that Saad was looking for a contract in the neighborhood of $6.5 million per season. There's no confirmation that Saad got an offer sheet, but I suspect like the Dougie Hamilton situation something made its way to Chicago management. Rather than enter into a protracted contract negotiation that they could never meet the demands of due to cap constraints, they opted to get a return that isn't nearly so bad as those in Chicago think it is. Anisimov is a hell of a hockey player and Dano will be too. Dano will be a cost controlled asset for a number of years, Anisimov not so much as he's UFA next year.
I expect that Chicago is having a hard time moving both Bickell and Sharp. Bickell because he's overpaid, Sharp because he's 34. I don't know the details and constraints of either contract beyond their values but both are probably unpalatable to some degree.
Short version is this is what happens with a roster loaded with allstars and two guys making a whole lot of money. Of course factor in the sagging Canadian dollar (revenue in the NHL is largely driven by Canadian franchises folks, that's why it matters even though pay is in greenbacks) which resulted in a salary cap probably 5-7 million lower than expected and cap strapped teams like Boston and Chicago do surprising things. And I'm not being smug about this either. I'm very concerned we'll sign Byfuglien to a large contract extension and then someone will offer sheet Trouba next summer when he'll likely be looking for Hamilton money (5.75/year with term).
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Why'd Pitt move Jordan Staal who, arguably, was a key component after '09? Same dealio. Sucks, but that's the cap for ya ultimately, especially when you have that "core" you don't want to break up. :-\
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I for one considered Saad as part of the 'Future of the Franchise' players to go along with Towes and Kane, so it's really hard for me to understand this move. Please someone help me make sense of this.
On one hand, I feel bad for you guys. On the other, I can stop worrying about a Toews-Kane-Saad 3-on-3 OT against us. :P (who am I kidding, Toews-Kane-Keith is bad enough :-\)
(revenue in the NHL is largely driven by Canadian franchises folks, that's why it matters even though pay is in greenbacks)
I think you mean revenue is largely driven by the Toronto Maple Leafs and the Rogers/Sportsnet TV contract. :P
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I think you mean revenue is largely driven by the Toronto Maple Leafs and the Rogers/Sportsnet TV contract. :P
Yes and no. Canadian franchises are by and large money makers and have been since the cull of Les Nordiques and Jets 1.0. True, nothing compares to the financial juggernaut that is the Maple Leafs. And indeed that TV contract is huge, but that TV contract is for Canadian broadcasting rights. While all of that is great and the Leafs contribute the lions share, the seven Canadian franchises contribute 55% of NHL profits That leaves 23 U.S. based teams contributing 45% (http://www.economist.com/blogs/gametheory/2015/01/currency-and-ice-hockey)
But since we're poking fun, the Forbes report most people refer to indicated only one U.S. based franchise hemorrhaging more than $10 million per season - the Minnesota Wild. :-X :P (and yeah, I don't really believe the Wild are losing more than the Panthers or Yotes either, I think that's some darn fine accounting)
Interestingly the cap situation may only get worse as the Canadian dollar declines, if it continues to do so, relative to the U.S. dollar. It's not completely inconceivable to see the cap actually fall after next season, say if the Canadian dollar drops from 0.81 USD where it currently stand to 0.75 or less.
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But since we're poking fun, the Forbes report most people refer to indicated only one U.S. based franchise hemorrhaging more than $10 million per season - the Minnesota Wild. :-X :P (and yeah, I don't really believe the Wild are losing more than the Panthers or Yotes either, I think that's some darn fine accounting)
Those $10mil loss numbers are skewed because of the $10mil (2012), $10mil (2013), and $5mil (2015) signing bonus payments to Parise and Suter.
Having to write out $20mil in bonus checks just before the lockout and then another $20mil after a half-season really hurt the team (at least on paper) for sure. That's the price they had to pay though to get those guys.
Recent estimates put them at about a $4-5mil loss, closer to breaking even with the deep playoff runs the last few years.
Its funny how a state that is so hockey mad can have a team that barely makes money. Part of it is just competition. Football seems to come first, then when winter rolls around, there is so much hockey (high school, college, Wild, etc) people don't really eat-sleep-breathe Wild hockey unless the team is great... and let's face it, the last few years have been good, but we're certainly not much of a regular season club yet.
Each of the last two years we had to struggle to make the playoffs as a 7-8 seed range because we always seem to have a nice December slump or goalie melt-down. :(
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Jesse - Kessel: Geno or Sid winger?
As for the Wild... we locked up a bunch of guys from last year (Granlund, Carter, Prosser), some post-college entry-level guys (Reilly, Michalek), and some depth for Iowa (Hagel, Dalpe, Fedotenko, Knight).
Looks like we'll be heading into 2015-16 with a team that's pretty much the same - just missing last year's rentals (Leopold, Stewart, Bergenheim) and Brodziak. Not sure how I feel about that. Brodziak could be frustrating, but really good on face-offs and PK. :-\
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Jeff, thanks for the explanation on the losses. I wasn't really worried about the Wild regardless, I'd think they would be one of the far more stable "small" U.S. franchises. It is interesting, especially since the city lost the North Stars previously, that there isn't more interest in regular season games. Winnipeg is different, for any number of reasons. We were without the franchise for longer than you guys were. We obviously have far less competition from other sports at higher levels, though we really don't watch much high school hockey, but then our amateur sports have never been as well supported by fans as they are in the U.S. Canada is just weird that way. But really it's the prevailing feeling that we could actually lose the team again that seems to drive our season ticket sales. We're coming onto year three of renewals and the first two years were renewal rates @ 97%. The 3% not renewed were snapped up in no time at all, but that happens with an 8000 person wait list for season tickets.
Interesting Kessel in Pittsburgh. Very talented hockey player but wonder how damaged his attitude is.
Thought the Granlund contract was pretty nice so well done Wild.
We of course let Frolik walk much to my dismay. Signed Stafford to 8.7 over two years, so great term and ok AAV but I'd have rather had Frolik for the money and term he got from Calgary than from Stafford. There's got to be something else going on there with Frolik/Chevy that prevented a signing - could be Fro's agent. He hosed Chevy on Pavelec so that may have played a role.
Also signed Burmistrov back after a two year KHL hiatus. Be very interesting to see what happens with him. He's never going to be a 60 point player but he's got real nice possession numbers and assuming he's playing with Lowry as his center, that could be a sneaky dangerous and frustrating line to play against.
Oh and Chicago extended Anisomov so that makes that Saad trade look better already though I know the Hawks fans don't feel like it.
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Oh and Chicago extended Anisomov so that makes that Saad trade look better already though I know the Hawks fans don't feel like it.
Honestly, we have relatively short memories because I remember the uproar after the first Cup and the players that were traded/let go. Then after they won the second, I didn't hear anyone bitching about the fact that all those guys were gone. As long as Anisomov turns out to be a productive player over the next 5 years of his contract, I don't think too many people will compare his numbers to Saad's over that same period.
Oh and just because we're keeping score, Richards is also gone to the Wings.
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Malkin's less the play maker IMO so I partly think Kessel (and yes I will make Kessel Run jokes, prepare for it) fits in more with Crosby as someone who finishes what he'll set up.
An interesting aside... As things stand, our third line is Kunitz, Sutter, Dupuis... potentially. That's not a bad 3rd line. :-X
That said, I was kind miffed at the trade. I wanted Kessel, but I didn't want him at a massive expense. HOnestly I'd rather seen them possibly move a young D-Man (not named Maatta), though Pouliot I think is more valuable than Kapanen ultimately pulled since Kapanen has no NHL time really.
Anyway though, I didn't like us dumping Kapanen AND a 1st Round Pick (potentially? Still not totally clear on that), and think it should've been a higher round pick unconditional at best. Our future is on the line at this point. We lack 1st round picks in multiple years including this one. Kapanen was one of our ONLY forward prospects aside from Sundqvist. I dunno.
Anyway, picking up Plotnikov to me is the story people aren't paying attention to, and I think he may be just as important in how he plugs in, and for a lot less $. He's almost assuredly going to Malkin's #2 line.
Martin didn't sign with the Wild, which disappointed me for you guys out there. I figured if we couldn't have him I wanted to see him wind up home for you guys. :(
Downie left... I can't say good riddance as I found him interesting and serviceable. He put in 20+ goals too iirc? Not bad, especially on the team we had last year.
Lost Comeau who they wanted to retain I'm pretty sure, but he flourished with Malkin and I think it was likely to have him go. He won't perform as well though outside the organization IMO.
So we still have Perron, Hornqvist, now Kessel, Plotnikov, and Kunitz (whose numbers were deceptively bad last year), and Dupuis is cleared to come back and I just hope his health holds and he's in excellent shape by season's start as he was on a tear when the gates opened but then life pulled the rug from under the poor guy. Plus he's considered one of the best "people" on the team, and in the sports scene in the city in general, and people wanted him here in some capacity one way or another (like Bill Guerrin). I hope he has some in the tank yet. Same with Kunitz who had a rough year.
My huge, HUGE fear is the sacrificing of our future for the "now". Which I get is because of Crosby/Malkin's age. :-\ It just is scary.
Then again, Saad to Columbus made Columbus instantly the fav in the Metro, and rightly so.
Regarding Kessel's perceived baggage, I hear it's every bit the Toronto Media... He will never be the team's "face" here obviously so that takes some burden off him. Malkin's always said he liked the fact he wasn't the first people came over to in the locker room. Maybe the change of scenery will be good for helping us on the Kessel Run? :P That's one.
So yeah to sum that long blab fest up, I'm not so sure it was a GREAT trade. We gave up a ****load for him, including a major prospect who could be a superstar in the league. Sacrificing the future for now hasn't paid off yet, so I have reservations.
But I'll dig watching competent players on Sid/Geno's wings for once (since 2008/2009 anyway).
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Regarding Kessel's perceived baggage, I hear it's every bit the Toronto Media... He will never be the team's "face" here obviously so that takes some burden off him. Malkin's always said he liked the fact he wasn't the first people came over to in the locker room. Maybe the change of scenery will be good for helping us on the Kessel Run? :P That's one.
No question the Toronto media is unbearable. For that reason alone I suspect Toronto is on as many no-trade lists as Winnipeg. Perhaps Kessel's baggage is only related to that, but the way that team caved last year after the new year I'm pretty sure that can't be laid at the feet of the media. And Kessel (along with Kadri and Phaneuf) is a perceived leader. To go from a playoff spot to drafting 4th overall takes some serious doing. Now perhaps Toronto told their players to do that, but then why move a sniper like Kessel? He's a hell of a hockey player and we're about to find out how much was the media.
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I'd like to see them try to get something done for Vermette but I'm not going to hold my breath.
Thankfully I wasn't holding my breath as Vermette goes back to Arizona... Okay, Saad, Richards, Vermette. Who's next?
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I think sometimes a guy just gets **** on because people wanna blame someone. Local media lkke to target Malkin because he makes the most. Some have Targeted Fleury unfairly too and that goes league wide there. I read how a bunch of media there are laughing at Pens over the deal... Toronto hasn't done much as an organization for how long though? Pens just wanted to get better and outside of Toronto I don't think anyone feels they're worse.
I have my fears on the future now an that's it. I think Kessel has to fit in on this team tho. And I he has diet/fitness issues, Gary Roberts will straighten his ass out to paraphrase some Slapshot. :)