JediDefender.com Forums
Collectibles => The Vintage Collection => Topic started by: speedermike on September 28, 2010, 09:01 AM
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I have to say this...I'm very worried that TVC is going to tank at retail. In the ROTS wave, I am only going to buying 4 (Palpatine, Magna Guard, Anikin Sith Eyes and Greivous) and skipping the other four, because I have them from other lines (or close enough...)
The thing is, I'm a hardcore collector and I've been buying this stuff since the early bird kit in 1977. I have one of every individually carded figure they have made. I'm the sort of loyal, dedicated costumer that every company wants...but even I am only buying 50% of the product.
If Hasbro can't keep someone like me interested and engaged, how does the casual fan feel?
On the other hand, I will buy all of the Jedi wave....
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I think a potential failure of TVC collection will be of stores stupidly pricing the figures differently. I saw parents and kids looking at Vintage cards at TRU, possibly not realizing they weren't part of the sale or not pay attention to the $10 price tag.
That's not gonna help clear out, say Cloud Car Pilot or 4-LOM. or other slow sellers.
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My main concern for the TVC is the extremely slow pace of basic figure releases to keep everyone engaged. As it stands right now, we are only getting 1-2 more waves for the rest of the year. Going into next year it sound like we will get 1-2 waves before the long hiatus until the following fall. This pace really stinks and when Hasbro says they want to release a new wave every 6 weeks who are they kidding. They cannot even confirm the AOTC wave will hit before Christmas.
I am ready for new waves and supposedly the ROTJ wave is being released next month, yet no etailer has them up for preorder yet. I find that very concerning. I am not worried about the slow sellers as we head in the Christmas season, many will be cleared out. I am more concerned about whats in the pipeline to fill the the long waits in between. It's way too slow for my tastes, from what I can tell this really hurt interest as there is not much to be engaged in.
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I don't think it's going to fail, but I will say the first two waves really weren't all that exciting. However, Waves 3 and 4 look outstanding, and I think those are going to really ignite interest in TVC, and the overall line in general.
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I don't know that it will necessarily "fail" or not either, but time will tell more on that. It is still very early in the line, so we'll have to see. I will say, that this may be the most I've seen "new" figures hang out on the pegs for a new line in quite some time though - at least for the most part. Sure, Fett (and in some cases Dack, etc.) disappear quicker - but I've seen decent numbers of both the ESB and ROTS waves at retail. There will always be some that hang around for each wave, but I can remember a time when you would barely know if a new wave hit because it would be snatched up so quickly. The first batches of "vintage" figures (VOTC/VTSC) in particular seemed to fly off the pegs, at least initially, even at the higher prices.
I'll agree though, although I really liked the ESB wave - and the figures in the ROTS wave are nicely done as well - they maybe weren't the most exciting. The ROTJ wave looks to be the best so far, and the one I'm really anticipating as well. I do hope the line does well though. I've said it before, but really if we got a good (well planned out) 2-3 year run of TVC, I think they could handle most to all of the needed resculpts and some fan requested figures that haven't been done as well. Time will tell. The combination of very well done figures and the spiffy packaging makes this one of my favorite lines yet (or maybe overall favorite, next to the previous "vintage" incarnations). As mentioned, the huge gaps in releases doesn't help drive collector interest any either. I do sort of wonder - aside from collector/fans' kids - if kiddos really care about this line at all, but you never know.
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I have one of every individually carded figure they have made.
Really? Where do you store them? That seems like it would take up an enormous amount of space.
I've often wondered if there were any collectors out there who literally bought EVERYTHING in the 3&3/4" line. I mean a straight-up, 100% completist, including all variants, re-packs, etc.
I bet no one at Habsro can even make that claim.
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I did that up until 30AV. It's insane. I stopped because I did run out of space.
As for failing, based on the fact that wave 2 has not hit Target yet, I have to wonder.
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Ya I have a 10x20 storage unit and I'm running out of space there. :-\ I seriously have 0 excitement with the first two waves (first time for me since I started back in 01). Hopefully things will pick up after Jedi though...
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I did that up until 30AV. It's insane. I stopped because I did run out of space.
As for failing, based on the fact that wave 2 has not hit Target yet, I have to wonder.
I did actually see the ROTS wave at Target this morning for the first time, so maybe they'll start hitting a bit more now. I thought they might miss it completely, but with the ROTJ wave not even available to preorder online yet, maybe it will be a little while before we see that.
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I did actually see the ROTS wave at Target this morning for the first time
Same here...even though I only browse 1 Target store.
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I've seen ROTS wave at Target now as well... I don't believe it was returns either, but actual remnants of it.
TRU's not a good gauge of anything for sales either... THey tend to stock a lot more in general, and their prices have to be turning people off some. I see things moving really brisk at Wal-Mart and Target since August. It seems to be going ok so far... We'll see how things are after Christmas.
I personally bought a good bit from the first two waves... I've bought multiples of Dak, AT-AT Commander, Sandtrooper, Magna Guard, and even 2 of the ROTS Clone since it's unique. Out of wave 2 I only really skipped Obi-Wan all together. Out of wave 1 I skipped 3PO, Vader, and 4-LOM though if a sale hit I'd likely buy 2 of those figures also. I'd also like to nab an extra Han at some point I think, for the accessories.
I don't think it's going badly right now though, but if things logjam I think it'll hurt the line, as it always seems to.
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Really? Where do you store them? That seems like it would take up an enormous amount of space.
I've often wondered if there were any collectors out there who literally bought EVERYTHING in the 3&3/4" line. I mean a straight-up, 100% completist, including all variants, re-packs, etc.
I bet no one at Habsro can even make that claim.
Actually, if you open the figures it doesn't take up much room at all. In fact, lets say Hasbro released 60 NEW figures in a year, once they are open, you can just about get them in a big shoe-box.
The thing is, I only buy new product. I don't buy repacks, and I only buy repaints if they are different and better, such as the McQuarrie Stormtrooper's second release.
I have one glass/wood dispaly case from Ikea that holds about 250-300 figures on plastic spice racks. I also have a shelf that was made to display figures that holds close to 100. So that's aboyt 350 figures that I have on display...the others are packed away in a few small plastic storage boxes.
For a long time, the ships didn't take up much room. Again, I only buy something once, so I don't have each TIE release, or whatever. But lately, with the BMF, Turbo Tank and BAT-AT, I do need to put some stuff in the attic.
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I can sort of see this line tanking for a number of reasons. Wave 1 being somewhat uninteresting being one. It's a great wave, but not a great one to start with. The first waves always end up clogging the pegs because retailers order too much of the initial waves. Hasbro should always have a strong first wave full of highly sought after A listers, troop builders that people want multiples of and maybe some cool looking B listers. The problem with wave 1 is 4-Lom, not sure what they were thinking on that one. they should have gone with a Snowtrooper instead. I also find the Cloud Car pilot and Dak are pretty common, also not the most interesting of figures really. I think if they'd started off with the ROTJ lineup instead, we'd see a lot more success.
The next problem is the fairly obvious one of cross contamination between lines. Look at ROTS as a good example. here we have another Obi Wan in TVC, we've also got one in Legends and TCW. Thats 3 of the same character all hanging around at the same time. Why do they feel thats necessary. It's the same thing for Grievous, Anakin and countless others.
The third problem is that I think they're counting on carded collectors a bit too much, which is thee only logic I can see behind putting out the 3 aforementioned characters out in TVC on top of Legends. Obi Wan in the ROTS wave seems like it's just to get a prequel Obi on a vintage card.
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The whole Bounty Hunt Foil promotion reeks of desperation. EVERY figure in the ROTS wave has a Bounty Hunt Foil variant. Hasbro appears to be very clearly trying to lure people back into buying multiples of each figure through this variant promotion. I think that they designed this promotion to get back collectors who have completely moved away from collecting both carded and loose figures. Will collectors see through this? That remains to be seen.
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The sith wave is lacklustre -and yet to hit the uk.
If all markets get to The Superb Jedi wave by early Nov -if think we'll be ok. I can't see a problem with the mixed waves -something for everyone!
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If it tanks then it tanks. I think that has more to do with the overall interest in the 6 movies than anything else. The line of figures has been out there since 1996 - 99 if you want to begin with TPM. That's a pretty good run considering nowadays that toys last maybe 1 year unless they are successful like Cars. The 3D films will get things going again in 2012.
I think this is the best they could do during the down years. Although some all new figures would have helped these first two waves. I can't really count Dak since that's the same orange pilot we've gotten for awhile now. Plus, that Han Solo Hoth figure is sort of new but not really.
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Just my 2 cents, but during the B-A-D days I bought way more obscure figures than I had ever bought before. I'm not a completist, I just buy the subset of figures that interest me, but the desire to complete droids got me to buy atleast a dozen or more figures I wouldn't have bought otherwise. Fast forward to the Vintage Collection and I've bought three figures from the first two waves (19 figures). I'm not saying that my experience is typical, but for me, I have less interest in buying marginal characters in this line.
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I've only bought one tvc figure so far (the hoth Han because he is unique). The rest just arn't that unique for me to justify the price increase on. For less money on the CW side I get a card, dice and a stand. On the vtc side I get a figure that I already have with no clam shell on a fake vintage card.
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The line will be fine. They announced today that the 6 films will be coming back to theaters between 2012 and 2018 in 3D. That'll help the line as well.
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Or, Hasbro will just rerelease all of the figures that they've already made, which is good business. I understand that thinking. Funny how the 2018 date lines up with th erelase of Jedi in 3D, and the end of the Hasbro contract.
A little off topic, but I am surprised that the films will be realsed in order. I like TPM, and I know many people who do. However, it will not have the draw that A New Hope would have in 3D. For many other, TPM was a giant bust...
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I think the only thing Hasbro could do to improve would be to cap waves at 4 or 6 figures per wave.
This would allow for certain case assortments/packing ratios to exist where you get either 2 or 3 of each figure in the wave per case.
Having equal figure packing ratios may not be a casual buyer friendly situation, but it certainly is a collector-friendly mentality.
It might also mean that they could more easily meet that new wave every 6 weeks goal they keep saying they're trying to achieve.
Think about it - if you took the eleven figures in the ESB wave, added say the AT-AT driver to the mix and to bring you up to an even twelve, you could split the ESB wave down the middle and have the first half be "Wave 1" and then six weeks later come out with the other six as "Wave 2".
For the ROTS wave they could have split it into two waves of four figures or thrown in a couple re-packs from the Legacy Collection over the past two years and made it another two waves of six.
The better they can make the case assortments collector friendly and the more regular they can make the waves will help make this line succeed.
Following the same patterns of 8-11 figure waves so you have to score two cases to be "caught up", foil variants and huge gaps in the shipments of waves is what turns people off.
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Could be because the majority of the buyers, kids, are focusing on the Clone Wars.
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I find the selection for the Revenge wave a little underwhelming because I have a lot of these figures already but I try to remember what it was like when I first got back into collecting. I was always hoping they'd repack old figures that I missed out on, if I was starting collecting now, this would be a great start to a Revenge of the Sith collection.
I guess any money I've saved by not picking up everyone from this wave will be lost on the Jedi one, every figure in the wave plus extra Gammoreans is going to cost me a packet.
I really hope this line doesn't fail, I think it has some of the best looking figures I've seen in while and the lack of extra plastic in the packaging has got to be a little better for the environment.
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I think it's just the typical over ordering of the first wave coupled with one too many sith revisions -once were over the hill and those Gam Guards are sighted...
I dunno -what do you all think about the Clones wave-do you think it's gonna sit?
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Or, Hasbro will just rerelease all of the figures that they've already made, which is good business. I understand that thinking. Funny how the 2018 date lines up with th erelase of Jedi in 3D, and the end of the Hasbro contract.
A little off topic, but I am surprised that the films will be realsed in order. I like TPM, and I know many people who do. However, it will not have the draw that A New Hope would have in 3D. For many other, TPM was a giant bust...
A bit off topic - but I am curious to see if Hasbro does anything different/special to go with the 3D releases in 2012 and beyond. Like you said, you could very easily just repack a bunch of figures to highlight each of the movies - and by 2012 we might have pretty "definitive" versions done of everyone of significance (we're getting close to that already). That said, it does make it a little more difficult I suppose with the movies being spread out over 6 years. If they wanted to highlight the movies, I don't know if you'd put out some "commemorative" ROTJ wave (2017) alongside the TPM release in 2012. Who knows, they may just continue with the line as usual and do something else. It is definitely a good opportunity to push the movie line again though, and maybe an opportunity to try something "big" again (Death Star playset, etc.) Possibly wishful thinking though...
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I keep passing on the TVC line too. I've bought 3 figures so far. I WANT to buy more, but I can't justify paying $8 per figure.
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or $10 @ TRU.
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That AOTC wave is a total snoozefest, I almost fell asleep right now just typing about it. But Wave 3 is so exciting that it more than makes up for it.
It seems like last year there was like 5 waves all of the sudden in 2 months time, and while this year is a much slower pace, that ROTJ wave is such a high quality that I'm fine with it.
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or $10 @ TRU.
Yeah, until they lower their prices to at least compete with WM and Target, I'm basically pretending they don't exist. :D
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I think the AOTC wave looks really good... sure it's not the most exciting characters, but the quality looks great. I'm looking forward to this wave... not as awesome as the ROTJ wave of course, but still not bad. I think some sort of wacky alien in the wave would have made it a bit better.
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Yeah a funky alien would have been cool-but what is really left?
EDIT-just thought Gator Head,Toonbuck or Seboca would do nicely.
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I wonder if the lack of really interesting characters left from some movies is the reason they're moving away from the movie themed waves going forward. Kind of a shame they're not hitting out one last ANH themed wave though. I bet they could really blow the collector community away with that one. Throw in a new Fleet Trooper, Tarkin, Bom Vimdin, Evazan and Ponda and a few other highly requested figures. Repack the Resurgance Luke, and update Leia and you've got a pretty exciting group a la ROTJ wave.
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I wonder if the lack of really interesting characters left from some movies is the reason they're moving away from the movie themed waves going forward. Kind of a shame they're not hitting out one last ANH themed wave though. I bet they could really blow the collector community away with that one. Throw in a new Fleet Trooper, Tarkin, Bom Vimdin, Evazan and Ponda and a few other highly requested figures. Repack the Resurgance Luke, and update Leia and you've got a pretty exciting group a la ROTJ wave.
"Hasbro made a pact with the devil to never make a good Rebel Fleet Trooper... True story!"
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Hey, it's what I was told. :-\
(http://images3.makefive.com/images/debate/social-change/most-evil-americans/pat-robertson-7.jpg)
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I think the line is doing well, but it's potential downfall is:
1. months between new waves (ROTS in September, ROTJ around November, AOTC in January?!) - this allows time for the better sellers to fly off shelves, while the pegwarmers gradually build up en masse, making it harder to put up newer figures - same deal as the '10 CPs.
2. higher price than TCW and SL. This is the deal - for $6.99 we get TCW and SL figures, with a baggy full of guns, a stand, a card, and a die. For $7.99? A TVC figure. Just that, and maybe a few accessories - heck, there isn't even room on the packaging anymore to include larger-scale accessories!
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For the OT collectors it would be nice if Hasbro check the various rumors list from past years
A long waited Ot figure would be the emperor royal guard in SA.
Perhaps Hasbro will use more waves for Pt action figures while clone wars show is building background for some secondary characters like some senators, officers, aliens.
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Just thought I'd bump this up with the relatively negative talk regarding 2011's Wave 1 pictures. Granted, I'm sure we have a lot of other great stuff on the way next year, and I think Hasbro has sort of admitted this is a "filler" wave a bit before a larger/neater Wave 2....but looking at the lineup, it does seem a bit boring. Not only that, although I'm all for needed resculpts and all that, I know some people really just look forward to the "all new" figures. Judging by many of the lineups in TVC figures so far, those are going to be few and far between. I mean, looking at this 2011 wave, there really isn't anything "all new". Sure, the figures are changed/updated a bit, but I'm not sure it is enough of a difference to get people buying a ton more Stormies, Utapau troopers, etc.
Obviously, this is a case where a few small changes could have made this wave a much more positive one. I realize that it is tough having things "ready" and all that, but some line planning could fix much of that. I can see now that they want to have main character "anchors" in each wave, so why not having a new Bespin Han or a new Hoth Luke in place of the ones they used here (although the Luke doesn't look too bad). You think about other "anchor" figures, and they have sort of used a lot of them already. We've already seen the already nice AOTC/ROTS Obi-Wan's re-used, as well as ROTS Anakin, Jedi Luke, Bespin Luke, Vader, etc. Plus, I don't know how many more "niche" versions of these guys they can find. I'm still excited by the line, and like I said - I think we have a lot of good on the way in 2011, but I am starting to wonder about the future of it if the waves continue to be this way. Even out of the first two waves (ESB/ROTS), I can't say - aside from a couple figures - that any are very difficult to find.
I think, after a few more updates and maybe a minor tweak here or there, they could just repack previous versions of the main characters and then use the "tooling budget" to put a couple all-new figures in each wave. I mean, thinking about many of the main characters, and most of them already have some near-perfect versions out there already:
Luke: Resurgence, Stormtrooper, X-Wing, Snowspeeder, Bespin, Jedi, Endor
Han: ANH (VOTC), Stormtrooper, Hoth
Obi-Wan: TPM, AOTC, ROTS, and ANH (although I don't think they consider "old" Obi an anchor figure)
Anakin/Vaders: AOTC, ROTS, or any number of Vaders
Chewie: Early Bird, VOTC
R2-D2: Resurgence
C-3PO: Endor Throne, or possibly a B-A-D repaint
Troopers: Any variety of Clones, and the Stormtrooper/Snowtrooper/Biker Scout/TIE Pilots all have pretty great versions
Anyways, the list could go on, but there are a number of characters they could draw on for repacks at this point if they need to. Honestly, I think if we got all-new versions of Hoth Luke, Bespin Han...and possibly updates or tweaks to Endor Han or a new Carbonite version, I think I'd be fairly satisfied with what we've gotten for the main characters (not counting a new ANH Leia, but I doubt female figures are considered "anchors" either).
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I agree 100%.
Hasbro has a very good Tatooine Luke and an excellent Han. This really is a waste of effort. Honestly, if Dr. Ezavan had been included, I'd be over the moon. Hasbro must understnd that many "collectors" have been doing this for 15 years, and really cherish "new" stuff. I consider Ezavan new because he was never on a card, and the figure made of him in the past was not only very lame, but the costume was innacurate.
Hell, a grey DST would have been better that R5-D4.
Ugh...
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Well said speedermike, well said.
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Hasbro's been including a lot of "refresh" (yeah right, Hasbro) in their waves - TVC Wave 5 for example, take a look at Han. Same figure we've gotten before, but "just different enough to make you mad." There were only 2 new figures in the ROTS wave, granted, all of the figures in the ROTJ wave are new...
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Hasbro's been including a lot of "refresh" (yeah right, Hasbro) in their waves - TVC Wave 5 for example, take a look at Han. Same figure we've gotten before, but "just different enough to make you mad." There were only 2 new figures in the ROTS wave, granted, all of the figures in the ROTJ wave are new...
Hey, my favorite catchphrase! :D
Getting Boba Fett seems pretty difficult lately, and Darth Vader has done extremely well too. The Sandtrooper, oddly, less so. (Go figure.) I gotta assume the repacks are reaching a different fan because-- in all honesty-- these aren't here to tickle our fancies. I'm somewhat surprised Boba's not shipping in any of the wave 3 or 4 mixes so far. If anything they should be cranking out more of him before people catch on that he's going to be worthless.
Hasbro's really in a great position right now-- fans are paying attention to variations again, talking about name changes, deco changes, and the like, and people are engaged in a way I don't think I've honestly seen since .00 and .01 meant something to the online collecting community. Plus didn't Rebelscum get some crazy positive response on their "Would you buy the same dang figure you already own on a vintage cardback?" poll a few years ago? It's a nice way to make rereleases more appealing to the carded community which I thought was drying up lately.
While I agree the "refreshes" aren't necessarily ideal, I was just thinking this week how few repaint waves we get now. We got a few in Revenge of the Sith near the end, we got (technically) three at the end of The Saga Collection, we got another one in the middle of 30th Anniversary, and we only got one in all of Legacy. I guess they gotta cut a corner or two somewhere, and R5-D4 is probably recognizable enough that some parents will recognize him. (Heck, mine did.)
The ROTJ wave did a bang-up job converting me from "grumpy" to "overwhelmingly optimistic." I know own a movie-style season 2 cartoon Wicket figure. Can it get better than this? (Probably not but who knows if Logray will have a cartoon accessory like the blue outfit or the Sunstar/Shadowstone or visible sunberries or something. [Yes I liked the Ewoks cartoon as a kid.])
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The ROTJ wave did a bang-up job converting me from "grumpy" to "overwhelmingly optimistic." I know own a movie-style season 2 cartoon Wicket figure. Can it get better than this? (Probably not but who knows if Logray will have a cartoon accessory like the blue outfit or the Sunstar/Shadowstone or visible sunberries or something. [Yes I liked the Ewoks cartoon as a kid.])
The same thing happened to me. For the first time I was finding myself becoming a bit cantankerous with the line until the ROTJ wave. It truly is the new benchmark. Even seeing the recent packaged shots of the new AOTC wave you can really see how well they are done. I purchased three Wickets, 2 to open in their different outfits and one to keep packaged.
My only hope is that the Han Solo will be an all new sculpt as Hasbro said it would be and not the rehash on the comic pack. The head sculpt that was shown at C5 confirms at least a new head. That figure is my most anticipated. If he is on par with the ROTJ wave I will really be happy!
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I did see that image from the CP, and I hope that isn't Bespin Han we're getting. If it is... >:(
I'm starting to notice that ROTS Anakin is starting to build up on the pegs. Which really shocked me. Boba is for sure the top seller of Wave 1, and even Darth Vader's selling through decently, but he's not a chore to find. I would say the Bespin Pilot and 4-LOM are the greatest peg warmers of Wave 1.
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I've been a bit surprised that Vader has really been moving now too here locally. He was an early pegwarmer, but doesn't seem to be around too much at this point. Honestly, our pegs are mostly full of ROTS stuff now, with a trickle here or there of the ESB wave. Like Adam mentioned, the Sandtroopers are all over the place here too, which is a bit surprising. Seems like a great figure, plus one that was never on a vintage cardback, but who knows.
Overall, the vintage line doesn't seem to be doing too badly. I know it has seemed like CW stuff was outselling the "movie" stuff big time last year at this time (around Christmas), and I can't say that there is a huge difference this year. Both pegs are much fuller than we've seen in the past (I remember the past couple Christmas seasons the pegs being nearly empty it was selling so well), but I can't say that one is necessarily outselling the other.
I mentioned it before, but I'm in the camp that is annoyed with the unnecessary "tweaks" as well. Sure, there are great instances to do that (check out Jesse's recent thread), but sometimes it seems like they are re-doing a figure when they really don't have to. I think most would have been just as happy, or happier, to see the Resurgence of the Jedi Luke or the VOTC Han straight recarded than waste new tooling or another slot to put out the slightly different versions. Granted, the Luke looks decent, but it is just an example of where they could dedicate more to some all new sculpts and just repack some of the great figures they've already done over the past few years.
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The line's been doing very well as of the TVC reboot, but IMO, if waves are modeled more after Wave 5 (2011 Wave 1), then we'll again see a drop in the line's success.
Red-phase LC was a perfect example: too many repaints/repacks per wave, and too many obscure characters. Granted, we need the obscure characters every once in a while, but put too many in a wave without a good recognizable character ("anchor"), and sales go down. I always saw Leesub Serlin, Malakilli, and Nikto Gunner pegwarming.
But if you look at TVC waves, they're perfectly balanced. We got Vader, 3PO, Han, Luke and Leia in Wave 1, plus the other minor characters. Wave 2 was pretty much ALL inconic characters. The ROTJ wave is perfectly balanced, with Luke as the anchor. But in Wave 5 there are no lightsaber-wielders, plus all those repacks/repaints.
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Bump...and while I totally dig the new ROTJ wave, many stores in my area are still full with the first Vinatge ESB wave. In fact, I have no idea where TRU will even put new vintage if they even get them.
Maybe the new waves are moving, but the pegs are still loaded with slow selling stuff.
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My pegs are mostly swarming with Cloud Car Pilots, AT-AT Commanders and Dacks. The others seem to sell decently enough though. I think Hasbro might be able to solve a lot of the glut problems if they just learn to plan that first wave out better. Fill it with really high demand figures that everyone wants, preferably in multiples, because wave 1 always ends up being overshipped and causing pegwarmers that sit for a long time.
I don't really think this line is doing too badly, though I'm definitley getting sick of seeing clones in this line. I'm perfectly fine leaving the clones to Clone Wars and Legends. They could use those slots on much more interesting figures that I'm sure no one would complain about. Why not stick the 2nd Utai in there, or pack that shaven hoth trooper in there, or even pack in a "new" Hoth trooper with the old body and a new head. The same could be done for the Endor Trooper, put out a clean shaven Endor trooper. That'll probably sell a lot better that Gree for the third time over the last couple years.
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Fill it with really high demand figures that everyone wants, preferably in multiples, because wave 1 always ends up being overshipped and causing pegwarmers that sit for a long time.
That's really true, actually.
My area is clogged with 4-LOMs, a few Bespin Pilots, and even fewer Dengars. But the real clogger here is 4-LOM. All this glut has made a huge dent into how much ROTS-wave stuff can share the pegs with the ESB leftovers, and all those pegwarming Obi-Wans, combined with the others, leave even fewer room for the ROTJ wave. TCW stuff seems to come out more than the pegs can handle, though, and I'm starting to notice than even Ahsoka is starting to pegwarm!
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My area is almost entirely made up of:
-ROTS Wave Obi's and Ani's, Barely updated Clones (mostly with yellow helmets, some without), Cody's, and Sandtroopers (nothing a good sale wouldn't clear out though, on the latter).
-ESB Wave 4-LOM, Dengar, Han, Vader, and a smattering of AT-AT Commanders now, though it took him a while to get to this stage.
I've not seen much ROTJ Wave at all here, though I see Luke, R2, and Ackbar (though less than the other two) from the wave fairly routinely now. The rest of the wave I saw on the pegs for the first time tonight, besides Woof who I'd seen a couple times before.
I've not seen figures like Boba Fett, Dak, Magna Guard and some others in quite some time though, and the ROTJ Wave figures I didn't list have been almost impossible to nab here... I keep seeing the ones I mentioned though, so I know I'm not getting there in time anyway.
And I still don't see the Legends Battledroid 2-pack... Seriously, that thing's impossible to find unless TRU has them all. WM, KM, and Target rarely ever have gotten them. I bought 2 sets, and they're the only 2 I've seen since the line relaunched.
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^Like you mentioned above, I'm seriously surprised that TVC Anakin (Vader) is a pegwarmer. Maybe because he's also in the SL line, with all those weapons, not to mention the card and stand...
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I think that doesn't help. I think it was Jeff mentioned the weird Legends/TVC match-ups being negative to certain figures first, but I think they're a huge detriment to one another as well... I don't think it necessarilly jives on some comparisons like Dak and Luke SNowspeeder, but on main characters like Anakin TVC and Anakin Legends, how can it not? TVC has the cloak and better arms, but Legends is (generally, in theory) cheaper with more stuff.
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I think a lot of it is relative to the area one is in too.
The Vintage Anakin/Vader seems to move pretty well in my area, but the Dak figure... let's just say it's a good thing he was apparently produced in low numbers. He is pretty easy to find still around my parts, especially at all the Targets.
Around here, the pegwarmers are as follows:
ESB - Han, Dengar, 4-LOM (I'll include Dak, but really he's just hanging around at Target stores)
ROTS - Clones, Clones, Clones, Sandtroopers and Kenobi - though I still see a few Magna Guards and Grievous from time to time... and I've yet to see a single Clone or Sandtrooper without some sort of yellowing going on. It's always the helmets on the Clones and the thighs on the Sandtroopers... after going through hundreds of them, still haven't found a good one yet. That's sad.
ROTJ - Too early to call any of these pegwarmers, other than maybe Ackbar
Again, it can be relative to one's area though - there hasn't been a single figure in my area that I haven't seen at least a couple dozen of now other than ROTJ wave - and that Battle Droid 2-pk? I could have bought close to 50 of them by now if I wanted. Just saw about 8 more the other day on a single toy run (all at Wal-Mart and TRU)... Jesse, maybe your Wal-Mart will get in some pallet display shippers, if so check them out as they have the Battle Droid 2-pk included.
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Yeah, it probably depends a lot on the area, but the main pegwarmers locally seem to be largely from the ROTS wave. There are a few stragglers from ESB (mainly 4-LOM, Han, and Dengar - although the others can be found), and with ROTJ it is a little early to tell (although after the wave is stocked, it seems like Woof and for some reason the Endor Soldier are often the last to go). Honestly, it is surprising to me, but I think the biggest pegwarmer overall (maybe next to 4-LOM) is the Sandtrooper. I see several of those at each store.
On the other side of things, the scarcest (or first to go from each wave) seem to be Luke/Leia/Dak, no one in particular from ROTS really - maybe Palpatine, and Luke/Wicket/Gamorrean Guard from the ROTJ wave (although they are all moving briskly right now).
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I think a lot of it is relative to the area one is in too.
Yeah, that's really true.
You mentioned in your post that Dak's relatively easy to find in your area... in mine, not so much. He's probably one of the first to fly off the pegs. And I also haven't seen that Battle Droid 2-pack more than once.
It seems, though, that in no matter what area (at least from what people have said), Boba Fett, Darth Sidious, Magna Guard, and Gam.Guard are all the hardest to find.
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I saw a Fett tonight, for the first time in ages. Was there a case he's reshipping in? I thought he wasn't coming back out.
Nothing else was there to make me think it was a Wave 1 case that trickled out, and the odds it was a return seem slim.
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I saw a Fett tonight, for the first time in ages. Was there a case he's reshipping in? I thought he wasn't coming back out.
I believe Fett was repacked in four different assortments of Wave 2.
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Nothing much from Wave 2 either, though I did see a Greivous and he's kind of uncommon around here too.
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Maybe someone hid him behind something else in the aisle with intent to get the figure later, but never did. Then an employee organizing the aisle found it and stuck it back on the pegs.
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"an employee organizing the aisle" Don't make me laugh!
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...each night at the Targets around here, the employees do a great job cleaning up the aisles. Not too bad at Wal-Marts either.
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Yeah, when I go to Target it's usually right at 8:00 am after I drop my son off at school. The store is immaculate at that time. It's the customers who chuck things all over the place.
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I'd have thought the same thing, but this store's pretty meticulous about keeping clean and organized. That'd be a long time that it was hidden before found, and at another WM I'd maybe buy it, but this one's pretty spotless. Plus I hit this one often and it'd have to be really hidden for myself to have missed it, haha.
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I may be in the minority here but I, for one, believe that Hasbro needs to take a HUGE "L" (loss) in order for them to right the ship. I'm talking a disappointing, catasprohic "Episode 1 line" sized L. Hasbro has cruised down easy street for waaaaay too long when it comes to the SW line. I believe that the collectors need to be catered to a bit more. I think that a smaller collector's focused line would do fine. Small in numbers, it could survive. Hasbro would have to be careful no to get too greedy and not over do it.
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I don't know...
Hasbro's not Sideshow. That's two completely different business models, both designed from the ground up in different ways for them to make money. Hasbro doesn't do "small" to make money. They profit off large mass production stuff... Sideshow can live off a small collector-focused niche. I think Hasbro would be making their big loss move by thinking they could make a collector-only line that was profitable for them.
I mean, look at what we get, and what sells compared to what doesn't sell? To me, the proof's there. :-\
The problem with saying, "small in numbers and it could survive", is that you just don't know what their minimums are that they need to make and sell for them to make needed profits. That's where the bean-counting comes in, and it's apples and oranges for Hasbro and other companies. Small to Hasbro is still pretty big.
I can't really say I look at the line though, and think that they're NOT catering to collectors a lot already. Not completely of course, not by far, but to say we don't get more than our fair share is kind of slighting some of the best stuff Hasbro's done in the modern line I think.
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I mostly agree, however, I do think that Hasbro could cater to collectors more. For instance. We have TVC and Legacy right now. All of the Vaders, Anikins, Obi-Wans and Yodas and Chewies should all be in Legacy. These are characters that are popular with kids, and Hasbro has excellent sculpts of each to work from.
TVC should only be collector oriented. Did we really need another Vader? Obi-Wan? Another Obi-Wan? Jango? I mean, come on. They already had a sculpt of the little Utapau guy that was not used, and they didn't put him in the ROTS wave.
The new figures we've gotten in TVC have been great. But imagine if there had been new figures in every slot that was a re-release.
Also, they have stated that they are not making "non-agressive" characters such as Jocasta Nu. That stinks, and it shows that collectors are secondary.
Now, I understand their business model, and the scope they are working on, but they essentially don't have to do anymore work to satisfy the casual collector, and they could give the serious collector some more attention.
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The new figures we've gotten in TVC have been great. But imagine if there had been new figures in every slot that was a re-release.
Also, they have stated that they are not making "non-agressive" characters such as Jocasta Nu. That stinks, and it shows that collectors are secondary.
Now, I understand their business model, and the scope they are working on, but they essentially don't have to do anymore work to satisfy the casual collector, and they could give the serious collector some more attention.
I have to comment on this because I am puzzled it's still comes up as often as it does. This is a sore spot subject with so many collectors that has been explained so many times over, even direct responses from Hasbro cannot seem to extinguish this offended feeling. Characters like Vader, Obi and Jango subsidize the obscure characters. The main characters can get re-released a lot more than say Jocastu Nu making them way more profitable in the present as they are consistent in demand figures. It also makes them more profitable in the future as demand is always there for the key players. While some may want the old lady she will have a limited window run and that's it. She may get made but after the Yarna debacle can you blame them for being extra cautious?
To say Hasbro is not focusing on the collector enough is a bit intellectually dishonest. Stop and think about what they brought to the market since July. They have produced so many collector oriented items this year alone: Vintage packaging on figures, Vehicles, 9 pack, supreme redos of key characters, Jabba/Throne, more accurate Bomber, Target Hoth packs, more Geo packs, New Big AT-AT, new Snowspeeder & the new Cloud Car. Yes they screwed up the comic pack line but despite that they still released the canceled ones at conventions and EE, all of which are collector focused.
They gave us a lot of focus including a mail away Rocket Firing Fett. How much more can you ask for? I hope every year going foward delivers the quality this year did.
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To go with something JACK touched on, I think the argument that characters like Vader not being a Vintage figure isn't a good one. He has sold decently. At least near me he has, and I wager if you asked Hasbro they'd say he's selling well on any card. Other characters tend to do well like that too.
But like JACK mentioned, those figures subsidize the obscure... It's a fact of life you're going to get them.
However, I do agree with you Steve that some of those should probably have been relegated to either Legacy, or Vintage, but certainly not both. Obi-Wan for sure, Anakin...
But then that leaves Hasbro in a dilemma, where they release them on Legacy cards where they're the better value ultimately, but then they're ignoring the collecting world who maybe want the "main" characters to turn up on Vintage style cards. Ani/Obi on vintage cards in a ROTS wave are figures I only buy if there's something new to them, but some folks would not be happy if ANi/Obi didn't turn up on vintage-style ROTS cards because they're the main guys.
But I totally agree that there have been too many Legacy/Vintage run-ins with figure choices, and it's not helped. It certainly hasn't helped the potential kid purchases from parents/grandparents, as Legacy's the better deal.
JACK listed a lot of great collector-focused stuff though. The line's definitely doing a lot for the adult collectors then. They're never going to be perfect on the basic line's choices, but I think they're doing ok. I wish they'd maybe limit the number of certain figures like Obi-Wan, if they're putting out a repack on the vintage style cards. Then again, Hasbro probably thought the Clone from ROTS was a great idea. Now it's languishing on the pegs everywhere. Sometimes I suppose it's a crapshoot as to what people will or won't support.
To add to the point about Legacy/Legends though, I have to say this line was abandoned almost completely for collectors. That is a bummer. I really enjoyed 2007, though it was expensive collecting repacks and the new figures at the same time. I'd like to see them be a little more conservative about what they do with Legends then, instead. But it's the only way figures like Jocasta Nu will ever happen too, so it's a necessary evil.
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Remember too, Hasbro also has to budget for the TCW line. I did a quick tally and observed the following basic carded figure totals (excluding exclusives) going back to 2007's TAC line:
2007-2008
Basic TAC: 75
Legends: TAC: 49
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124
2008-2009
Basic TLC "Blue Cards": 53 + 4 GH = 57
Legends: TLC "Blue Cards": 27
Basic TCW: 27
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111
2009
Basic TLC "Red Cards": 61
Legends: TLC "Red Cards": 19
Basic TCW "Red Cards": 50
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130
2010
Legends/SOTDS: 23
TVC: approx. 50
Basic TCW: 43
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116
As long as Hasbro can continue to make money through the Legends and Clone Wars segments, I don't see TVC (or whatever "collector" targeted line comes next) going anywhere., let alone failing.
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I don't see TVC going anywhere., let alone failing.
Bu... bu... But what are we supposed to panic about?!?
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Fleet Trooper's height and his vest not coming off.
Both very good things to panic about IMO.
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Height? Maybe. But since the vest never came off in the film, is it really that important?
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Yes, because the separate sculpt vests add depth you can't seem to duplicate otherwise. It's something figures without it lately have lacked, aeshtetically... even VOTC Han lacks because of that IMO. But it also helps add to customizing and army building if you can ditch the vests, so it's definitely a negative in my book... especially since it'd actually be a step back from the POTJ figure (which would almost be impossible. :)).
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Yes, because the separate sculpt vests add depth you can't seem to duplicate otherwise. It's something figures without it lately have lacked, aeshtetically... even VOTC Han lacks because of that IMO. But it also helps add to customizing and army building if you can ditch the vests, so it's definitely a negative in my book... especially since it'd actually be a step back from the POTJ figure (which would almost be impossible. :)).
It's also a step back from the POTF2 one! :P
I actually prefer the non-removable vest Han more than the separate one. (I hate that barrel torso sculpt.) I would be just fine if this vest is not removable as it appears. As long as the helmet is removable I will be very happy. I ditched all of my RFT so I currently have non in my collection. Count me in for 14-20 of these guys. This is one trooper that really needs to come with an extra head. If they gave up the vest for another head that would be a really good trade off in my book.
BTW - TVC will fail...at TRU for $10.99 each!
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The "barrel chest" is from the ball-jointed articulation on that Han though, not the vest, so I'd still prefer VOTC Han with a removable vest if they had done it. They just didn't. And the Commtech Han's vest is so thick it looked bad too. Newer figures sported the much thinner sculpts on separate sculpted coats/vests though, and they're outstanding. Ceremony Luke is all the further you need to look... It's great, and a vest like that on a Han or Fleet Trooper (thin, separate sculpted) would look awesome.
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Do not get me wrong, I prefer a removable vest but can live without it on this one figure. I agree on the quality of the vests.
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BTW - TVC will fail...at TRU for $10.99 each!
If Hasbro does keep pricing a collector-focused line so highly, then it just threatens the line even more so. I could never swallow the idea of TVC being $7.99 at Target, so $10.99 is just straight-up ridiculous. If TCW figures were priced around that $10.99 range, they would probably still sell the same due to their kid-friendly focus.
As someone mentioned above, TAC seems to be one of the best lines Hasbro has ever done so far. There was a perfect balance of key/obscure characters. The packaging was colorful and made the line stand apart on the shelves. Towards the end of its run Legacy became too collector-focused, and TVC is doing pretty well at balancing character selections. By looking at TVC 2011 Wave 1, however, I bet there will be plenty of pegwarming from that wave.
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Well, that's not Hasbro so much as it's Toys R Us jacking their prices. Hasbro set the $7.99 MSRP and TRU is just ignoring it. Hasbro's hands are tied as to what the retailers decide to jack prices up to though.
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Well, that's not Hasbro so much as it's Toys R Us jacking their prices. Hasbro set the $7.99 MSRP and TRU is just ignoring it. Hasbro's hands are tied as to what the retailers decide to jack prices up to though.
Yeah, true. I wonder if TRU will lower the prices after the holidays - maybe it's a master strategy, to jack up the prices, get plenty of casual buyers during the holidays, and then lower the prices after the Christmas season is over. ???