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Collecting => Customs => Customizing Tips and Tricks => Topic started by: jedipurge on October 24, 2005, 04:00 PM

Title: Neck Post Conversions - Ideas/Tips
Post by: jedipurge on October 24, 2005, 04:00 PM
hows it done?  i checks ffurg and wasn't able to find anything and wasn't able to find anything here.  i think i have the basic idea, and i'll be trying on some fodder first to test, but before i ruin a still possibly useful head i wanted some advise before i start.  i have a dremel & a drill with bits.  here's my plans so far: replace the evil grim evo darth maul head with the saga training darth maul, use eu luke head to make a jedi luke using evo ani body, using jedi council mace head and putting it on a repainted pilot obi, and finally using a rots palpy and putting it on evo darth sidious, just can't get over the super evil grin.  so any help/suggestions greatly appreciated.
Title: Re: peg heads to ball heads
Post by: jedistyle on October 24, 2005, 04:35 PM
are you turning peg heads into ball heads?

if so i have done this a few times with gijoes. it is pretty much just a cut and glue job, but i always find that drilling a small hole in the flat edge of the ball and base of the head, on the cut surface, and putting some type of post is very helpful, glue the post into both sides as well. it allows you to still move the new ball head around with out having to be gentle, it makes it more sturdy than just being glued.

hope it turms out well!
Title: Re: peg heads to ball heads
Post by: CHEWIE on October 24, 2005, 05:06 PM
Ok, I'll try and explain this tonight, with a tutortial of how I do it (even though it's probably not the easiest way to do it).

 :P
Title: Re: peg heads to ball heads
Post by: jedipurge on October 24, 2005, 06:43 PM
well i kind of got the idea like i said i'm sure i just have to cut off the neck and dripp into the head a bit with the right sized bit but i don't want to melt a head by drilling it to fast, or anything like that.  i don't have that much in the way of fodder i usually only buy what i know i'll use/need and don't have much extras much less have say a spare eu luke head just laying around in case i give him his brain a sun roof.  so thanx for any tips.
Title: Re: peg heads to ball heads
Post by: Quazar on October 24, 2005, 07:06 PM
Ball jointed heads are nice, but they're KILLING the hobby!!!   >:(

And they don't really even look that good most of the time.
Title: Re: peg heads to ball heads
Post by: ThePerennial on October 24, 2005, 10:23 PM
Ball jointed heads are nice, but they're KILLING the hobby!!!   >:(

And they don't really even look that good most of the time.

 Really? I LOVE ball jointed heads! I think it's a great part of articulation in that it both gets a better range of angles and it makes the heads' jawlines more defined; which looks better in my book.
Title: Re: peg heads to ball heads
Post by: CHEWIE on October 24, 2005, 10:51 PM
Ok, I don't know if this will help or not, but here's my attempt to try and assist you (sorry about the stupid pink string thing that is on the carpet, we had a Halloween party this weekend and some girls were in pink outfits, so it must be their fault)!

(http://chewie34.250free.com/HOLLOWHEAD.jpg)

1 - Basic figure being disassembled the easy way, already a pop off joint head.

2 - Using my trusty Walmart dremel, I "trim" the peg down some, making it a tad shorter if needed, but definitely thinner.  Not too thin though as I want to keep some strong plastic intact.

3 - Once that is done, and I have selected the new head to be used, I use a pair of pliers to hold the head in place while I use the dremel to carefully make a hole to hollow out part of the head.  I have to be careful here, because one slip and I can easily go too deep with the drill and have it come out the other end of his head, or make the hole too wide and tear up part of the neck.

4 - After a few tries to get a snug fit, I find the right amount of drilling to get the head to fit on the trimmed down neck peg.

5 - With this one, he already has a second head hollowed out courtesy of the clone helmet.

Ready for action!

 :P


Title: Re: peg heads to ball heads
Post by: CHEWIE on October 25, 2005, 01:54 AM
And, for refernce, here's better pics as the size of the drill bit I use.

(http://chewie34.250free.com/DREMEL.jpg)

 :P
Title: Re: peg heads to ball heads
Post by: Glassman6 on October 25, 2005, 11:35 AM
Here is how i've done it.

If you have a dremel or any rotary tool get one of these bits.


(http://www.naturalhorsetrim.com/Cheryls_dremel_bits.jpg)

Its the one second form the last.

Just cut off the peg to the chin, then its a little by little process casue you dont want to make the hollowed out part too big or the head will be loose.

Grind a little then try to fit it and keep going till your are happy with the fit.
Title: Re: peg heads to ball heads
Post by: Master_Phruby on October 25, 2005, 11:43 AM
I think FFURG needs some updated tutorials. I don't think there are articles on ball joints and swapping them with regular joints. You guys need to submitt some new articles to Jason.
Title: Re: peg heads to ball heads
Post by: jedipurge on October 25, 2005, 03:37 PM
thanks for all your help you guys it's much appreciated.  i'll let you everybody know how i did on the fodder heads.  and if it works like i hope it will i'll try it out on the actual heads i want to swap with. and yes phruby FFURG definately needs and update, it seems like most of there stuff is POTF2 as far as recipes/references/and how to's go anyway.
Title: Re: peg heads to ball heads
Post by: Ryan on October 25, 2005, 09:15 PM
HA! CHEWIE, that is classic. :D
Title: Re: peg heads to ball heads
Post by: Smartypants1635 on October 25, 2005, 09:35 PM
classic

they  stoles it from me filthy hobbitses

Title: Re: peg heads to ball heads
Post by: Master_Phruby on October 26, 2005, 10:17 AM
I think I need to send Jason some new recipes for FFURG.
Title: Neck Post Conversion Kit
Post by: Jedi_Master_Ben on March 31, 2006, 01:25 PM
Hey everyone,

As I am sitting here sculpting my alien heads, I had a thought. Hasbro is leaning towards ball jointed heads on almost every new figure thats comming out this year as well as last year. I was wondering, would it be to our advantage if we had a neck post conversion kit that would make the older peg bodies into ball joint bodies. For example, look at the break  down of this Bib Fortuna figure.

(http://www.rebelscum.com/TSC/TSC003bibfortunaparts.jpg)

Notice that the neck is a peg that also a ball joint. I propose that we take the mantel and make a kit that would do the same thing so we can boil and pob the older head, then place the neck post kit in its place and slap on a ball jointed head. The question would be, who will step up and take on this project. I think we could greatly benifit from this.

Jedi_Master_Ben
Title: Re: Neck Post Conversion Kit
Post by: CHEWIE on March 31, 2006, 01:39 PM
Interesting idea Ben, but probably way out of my league.  I guess I don't have any universal methods to solving problems like this, I just take them one at a time and kind of like making each custom in a different way.  I'm sure that someone out there would be able to work on this though?

 :P
Title: Re: Neck Post Conversion Kit
Post by: Gregorbian on March 31, 2006, 01:40 PM
I think that's a fantastic idea.  I was trying to figure out how to "make" neck ball-joints from scratch, but the best that I could come up with would be to use ball-end pins and some green stuff putty.  I'm not sure how that would work in practice, so an actual "kit" would be very helpful.
Title: Re: Neck Post Conversion Kit
Post by: BrentS on March 31, 2006, 02:18 PM
I think one of the problems is that each Hasbro ball jointed head is a different size so the generic neck peg may not work for all of them.  However, you could probably take a neck from a ball joint and glue it to a neck post bottom and them make a mold of it and cast new pieces.
Title: Re: Neck Post Conversion Kit
Post by: Jedi_Master_Ben on March 31, 2006, 02:52 PM
I know I started this subject, I should do it myself, but  I already tackling the alien head deal. I tell you what, if no one here or at RS could do this project, I will take over it. My only problem is lack of raw materials to get started. I would need samples of diffrent heads and neck posts. I do not do this type of custom works anymore so I do not have any fodder laying arround to make molded samples. If some one would help me by providing head samples and bodies with diffrent neck posts, I will make casts and come up with the kit.

Jedi_Master_Ben
Title: Re: Neck Post Conversion Kit
Post by: Ryan on March 31, 2006, 04:15 PM
I was talking to the Hasbro sculpter for awhile at C3, he uses marbles or other small rounds spheres and sculpts the lower part of the neck and then casts it. With the ammount of casting involved I think someone with enough experience would need to take this one on. I have an idea that might work but it would take some complicated casting using RTV molds. And ou would need 2 of whatever head it was you are using. I've got to get to class now, but I'll see if I can put my idea into words later.
Title: Re: Neck Post Conversion Kit
Post by: Jedi_Master_Ben on April 4, 2006, 04:21 PM
Hi everyone,

I need help tying to track down all the diffrent peg head styles that are out there. Can some one post pictures of sample head types that everyone uses so I can start this kit. Thank you.

Jedi_ Master_Ben
Title: Re: Neck Post Conversion Kit
Post by: Smartypants1635 on April 4, 2006, 08:30 PM
yeah I'll be sure to help you Im doing alot of B & P ing tonight so I'll be sure to send a few pics your way
Title: Re: Neck Post Conversion Kit
Post by: Ryan on April 4, 2006, 08:33 PM
The trouble is that even for the older figures a lot them have different sized neck posts. This project probably won't be easy, but from what I've seen of your work, you shouldn't have many problems with it.
Title: Re: Neck Post Conversion Kit
Post by: Jedi_Master_Ben on April 6, 2006, 06:57 PM
Hi everyone,

OK all you doubters out there, I did it!!! I figured out how to do this conversion, with very minimal effect. Here is the breakdown:

OK, we all know that each head we boil and pop has different neck shafts and base disks. So I was rattling my brain on trying to figure out how to universities the peg to go into the body. I had an old POTF2 Obi Wan body that I boiled and pop a long time ago. I took my monster maker clay and started to play around with the torso. I pushed in some of the clay into then neck hole and then started to shape a neck post out of the clay. I had my VOTC Han head next to the body and started to fit it to the neck post. I sculpted then neck and got it to it was a working condition with the ball joint head. Now the interesting thing that happened was the post was stuck on the body and I just could not get it out and then it dawned on me... What is the most common factor amongst ball jointed figures???? Their neck posts are part of the torso!!! That cracked it for me, the neck post conversion kit would be GLUED to the peg hole to be permanently fixed in place. Since all customizers make a custom, they do not try to restore the figure to its original condition, gluing the neck post would just be one more step in making the custom figure. So here are some pictures to illustrate the my concept:

(http://www.geocities.com/wolverine1257/Neck_Conversion_Kit/Neck_Conversion_Kit_WIP_1.jpg)

(http://www.geocities.com/wolverine1257/Neck_Conversion_Kit/Neck_Conversion_Kit_WIP_2.jpg)

(http://www.geocities.com/wolverine1257/Neck_Conversion_Kit/Neck_Conversion_Kit_WIP_3.jpg)

Now the next task is to get as many sample custom fodder bodies without the heads and make the neck post to cover the various styles of bodies. The ball joints diameters would be a standard size one for females and one for males. This will be an on going work in progress since I do not have but a small few loose figures and hardly no custom fodder since I sculpt my customs not chop shop them. I will compile an initial list of bodies that I have notice that get customize a lot and then I will leave it open for everyone to submit their wish list. If I do not have the body, I would need someone to loan or donate the body for the conversion process. I will be making the cast of each neck post since it would allow me to provide customizers the purchase my alien heads to use them with the older bodies.

I would like to hear everyone’s opinion on this since this will greatly benefit you all with the direction that Hasbro is going with the design of the newer figures.

Thanks for your time,

Jedi_Master_Ben
Title: Re: Neck Post Conversion Kit
Post by: BrentS on April 6, 2006, 11:23 PM
I need to think about this some more but I think your solution would work well for your custom ball jointed heads but I'm pretty sure that Hasbro's ball sockets are not universally the same size.  For example, the clone heads from the #6 and #41 troopers aren't universally sized.  I'm pretty sure that is the case for some of the other figures too.  Anyone thats made lots of ball joint swaps have an opinion?
Title: Re: Neck Post Conversion Kit
Post by: Jedi_Master_Ben on April 7, 2006, 12:11 AM
Hey everyone,

BrentS: you have a valid point and I did take that into consideration. I would make several neck posts that would cover the range of ball socket (except stormtroopers and clone troopers, to big of a ball). From what I have seen in most new figures as they are taken apart at RS photo gallery, the balls are close, not perfect. If the head is loose on the neck pole, then all you have to do is fill it with some plastic welder 2 part epoxies that you can get at Wal-mart and cover the neck post in either Vaseline or saran wrap and sick it in and let the plastic cure on the neck post. Otherwise, I will make various neck kits that will be made to order. Example " I would like a Hoth Leia neck with a small female ball joint, please." Once I have an inventory of stock necks, I will be able to adjust to the needs of the customizer. Of course, some of the fun in customizing is solving problems that come about doing chop shop toy designs. Bottom line, I have proven my plan could work and that is what I was trying to accomplish and now have succeeded. As for distribution, for right now, I think I will work on a case-by-case scenario based on the needs of each customizer choice of body they are customizing.

Thanks for the input and I deeply respect your feedback, it does shed light on to other issues besides the engineering design process.

Jedi_Master_Ben
Title: Re: Neck Post Conversion Kit
Post by: Gregorbian on April 7, 2006, 12:19 AM
Ben,

This is a great idea and I think that the way that you are going about it is perfect.  While many ball-joints do not work well with each other, I think having 1 sized ball-joint will be fine (as you mentioned, we can rework the size of the head socket). 
This is a great project that you're working on and when you finish it up, it will be a great asset to the customizing community!  Thanks for doing this Ben!
Title: Re: Neck Post Conversion Kit
Post by: Jedi_Master_Ben on April 7, 2006, 12:28 AM
Thank you Gregorbian, i was getting to wonder if I was spinning my wheels for nothing. If at least one person could benifit from this project, then I feel better going into this. I just hated the idea that a good sculpt like Adi Gallia would be neglected because it is a peg head body.  Now with this idea of mine, you could use a Aayla Secura head on that body or even one of my alien head sculpts ;D.

Thanks again for the support, it means a lot to me.

Jedi_Master_Ben
Title: Re: Neck Post Conversion Kit
Post by: Glassman6 on April 7, 2006, 11:08 AM
THis is a great idea JMB,but a huge undertaking.
I have a few ideas. PM sent.
Title: Re: Neck Post Conversion Kit
Post by: Phalanxx on April 7, 2006, 04:21 PM
wow.. that prototype turned out great and does open up a lot of possibilities for the old POTF2 figures.

And having a kit with a few ball socket sizes would work out the best.  Eventhough if not every head would fit perfectly, it wouldn't be that hard to mod the socket of the individual head to fit which ever neck post size  was the closest fit.
Title: Re: Neck Post Conversion Kit
Post by: Jedi_Master_Ben on April 10, 2006, 07:06 PM
Hi everyone,

I had  a long conversation with Glassman6 this afternoon and between him and I, we worked out a plan of attack for this project. I am going to open a new thread for collecting a list of body types that are most commonly used by you all for custom work. This will be the first step. The list should include the most commonlly used POTF2, POTJ, Episode 1, Saga and OTC peg head bodytypes. We want both male and female types, reguardless if they have been used alot by customizers in the past or not. Good examples would be uniforms, unique body sculpt, favorite costume. The next phase will greatly need your help with. I will need volentiers to send me bodies with out the heads, mostly torsos but whole figure also accepted (for taking example pictures of the head on the body). I asking to barrow them while I am developing this project and you will get them back to you all. I will also need to barrow ball jointed heads from a list I will post here. These will give  me the range of head sizes I will have to keep in mind while sculpting the neck posts. Once I am done, the will be sent back with my thanks. To give you all another example of what I am proposing, I have an Adi Gallia figure on loan from Bossk_in_E3. I did two neck posts, one for Mon Mothma's width, and one for Aayla Secura. I am guessing the diameters between these two neck types should cover the range of female ball joint heads. Here are the pics:

(http://www.geocities.com/wolverine1257/Neck_Conversion_Kit/Neck_Conversion_Kit_WIP_5.jpg)

And a Groupe Shot:

(http://www.geocities.com/wolverine1257/Neck_Conversion_Kit/Neck_Conversion_Kit_WIP_4.jpg)

Again the success of this project will depend on your support. Go to the "Neck Post Body List" post and enter your requests you can submit as many body types that you would want to see get this treatment. Please, read through the list before posting your request so we do not have duplications. This is not a voting thing. I will post the ball joint head list later today.

Thanks for your help,

Jedi_Master_Ben
Title: Re: Neck Post Conversion Kit
Post by: Jedi_Master_Ben on April 10, 2006, 09:08 PM
OK, here is the list  of heads I will need to prep for this project. I will need volentiers to loan me these heads. Once I am finished with them, I will return them to you. From these heads, I can formulate the sizes of neck posts I will need to sculpt for this project. Remember, I only need to barrow them, rest assure that you will get your parts back as soon as I am done with them. Post what heads you can provide so we do not have duplication of heads sent to me. I know this is a lot, but broaken up into small groups will make it easier on all of us. Here is the list:

Princess Leia (Boushh Disguise)
Han Solo (Carbonite)
General Veers
Major Bren Derlin
Sora Bulq
Sun Fac
Lushros Dofine
Clone Commander Cody
Mace Windu (Force Combat!)
Plo Koon (Jedi Master)   
Bail Organa (Republic Senator) 
Padm'e(Republic Senator
Shaak Ti (Jedi Master)
Ki-Adi-Mundi (Jedi Master)
AT-TE Tank Gunner (Clone Army)
Polis Massan (Medic)
Mas Amedda (Republic Senator)
Neimoidian Warrior (Neimoidian Blaster Attack!)
Tarkin (Governor)
Meena Tillis (Republic Senator)
Anakin Skywalker (Battle Damage!)
Captain Antilles (Senate Security)
Utapaun Warrior (Utapaun Security!)
Mustafar Sentry (Spinning Energy Bolt!)
Tion Medon
Stass Allie with BARC Speeder ("Exploding" Action!)

Evolutions
Anakin Skywalker: Anakin (AOTC), Anakin (CW)
  Sith Lords: Darth Maul, Darth Tyranus, Darth Sidious

Battle Packs
  Jedi Vs. Sith (Anakin, Obi-Wan,  Asajj, )

 
Luke Skywalker (Dagobah Training)
Yoda (Dagobah Training)
Pablo-Jill (Geonosis Arena)
Sly Moore (Coruscant Senate)
Queen Amidala (Celebration Ceremony) 
Feltipern Trevagg (Cantina)
Myo (Cantina)
Dannik Jerriko (Cantina Encounter)
Luke Skywalker VOTC
Princess Leia VOTC
Lando Calrissian VOTC
Yoda VOTC
ADMIRAL OZZEL (Executor Assault)
CAPTAIN ANTILLES (Tantive IV Invasion)
LANDO CALRISSIAN (Jabba's Sail Barge)
PADMÉ AMIDALA (Lars' Homestead)
PADMÉ AMIDALA (Secret Ceremony)
AAYLA SECURA (Jedi Knight) / (Battle of Geonosis)
KIT FISTO clone wars
MACE WINDU  General of the Republic Army
ASAJJ VENTRESS Sith Apprentice

 
 Thank you for your help.

Jedi_Master_Ben

 

Title: Re: Neck Post Conversion Kit
Post by: BrentS on April 10, 2006, 10:59 PM
Holy cow, thats a lot of heads.  I'd be happy to loan several from the list. 

On the neck posts, I think the example looks a little too long for Mon Mothma and your custom alien.
Title: Re: Neck Post Conversion Kit
Post by: Jedi_Master_Ben on April 11, 2006, 02:19 AM
Hi Brent,

Yeah, I know it is alot of heads. I REALLY do not have alot of loose figures, especially these. Thanks for pointing out the neck hight with the last two heads. I fixed it by making a third neck post for the Minbari head and lowering Mon Mothma's neck post. As I am doing this, I begin to wonder, would I need to only make one neck for that head or instead do I need to make a neck for each head type? This is why I need the bodies you all will customize and later and I need these heads to fit on these bodies inorder to determin the production proccess.

Thanks for the pointer,

Jedi_Master_Ben
Title: Re: Neck Post Conversion Kit
Post by: Darth_Ennis on April 11, 2006, 04:34 PM
 Ill see what I can scrounge up. Do you just need the heads? or the neck posts. Ive got a lot of extra ROTS heads that I can donate.
Title: Re: Neck Post Conversion Kit
Post by: Jedi_Master_Ben on April 11, 2006, 05:33 PM
Hey there Darth_Ennis,

that would be great!!! I really need the head. It would be nice if I had the torso to use, but mostly the heads. What I do is stick the wax clay into the head, and then stick the clay into the donor body neck hole and then start forming the neck. I then pull the head off and work the neck arround the body. Then I replace the head to see the progress. Once I have more donor peg head bodies, I could try the neck posts and see if  the neck post fits and the head is correctly proportiant to the body and so on. I will PM you my address to you can send the heads. Any heads you donate you will get back.  Thanks for the help.

Jedi_Master_Ben
Title: ball jointing heads
Post by: starkid500 on May 29, 2006, 12:32 PM
what piece do you need.is it the piece to hollow out helmets.
Title: Re: ball jointing heads
Post by: Roton7 on May 29, 2006, 12:35 PM
'tis called a dremel. The better customizers probably have more info on it.
Title: Re: ball jointing heads
Post by: Smartypants1635 on May 29, 2006, 12:44 PM
Dremel Has become the word for a rotary tool like kleenex has become the word for tissue.

Any hoo A rotary is kind of like a drill, moves at adjustable speeds with the turn of a knob. This tool has multiple Bits that you can use, IE a drill in multiple sizes, cutting wheels, Grinding bits, and all sorts of stuff.

Depending on how much you have you can get a wireless or a corded, the corded normally have better power, because of a constant supply. I got mine @ big lots for 20 bucks. Not bad, it does not need to be Dremmel brand, although they have cool stuff but so do the others
Title: Re: ball jointing heads
Post by: starkid500 on May 29, 2006, 12:48 PM
'tis called a dremel. The better customizers probably have more info on it.
i know what it is.i just need the piece.
Title: Re: ball jointing heads
Post by: Roton7 on May 29, 2006, 12:55 PM
'tis called a dremel. The better customizers probably have more info on it.
i know what it is.i just need the piece.

Well since you said in your first post "what piece do you need", I considered it to be a question, therefore I answered your question.
Title: Re: ball jointing heads
Post by: Beedo on May 29, 2006, 12:56 PM
I recommend a small drill to get the hole going, then switch to a small drum-sander rasp for the bulk of the hollowing.  Finish off with the ball-sander rasp if necessary.  That's what I do.
Title: Re: ball jointing heads
Post by: starkid500 on May 29, 2006, 01:20 PM
'tis called a dremel. The better customizers probably have more info on it.
i know what it is.i just need the piece.

Well since you said in your first post "what piece do you need", I considered it to be a question, therefore I answered your question.
the dril piece
Title: Re: ball jointing heads
Post by: VF/501 on May 29, 2006, 01:29 PM
For hollowing helmets a combination of the following or what works best for you.

1. standard small bore drill bit
2. Cylindrical grinding stone or sanding bit
3. Cone shaped grinding stone

For converting Peg heads to ball joints.

1. standard small bore drill bit
2. Ball shaped high speed engraving bit 1/8" or larger

For the engraver bit a large on will get it done faster but you can't control the size of the hole as easily.  The 1/8" requires more work to use and paitience but affords more control in size and depth of the socket you are making.

Past threads have more on this subject.

Good luck with your customs starkid.
Title: Re: ball jointing heads
Post by: Errex on June 2, 2006, 03:05 PM
I use most the engraving bit that is numbered 192 in the Dremel Online Catalog Here (http://www.dremelonline.com/dremel/listproducts.jsp)