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Collectibles => Past Hasbro 3.75" Lines => Saga Collection '06 => Topic started by: Jim on March 23, 2006, 01:31 PM

Title: Army Building or Hoarding?
Post by: Jim on March 23, 2006, 01:31 PM
I dont know if anyone has noticed how much more difficult it has become to army build these days. Especially with Clones.  I have had to pay premium prices for the last few clones that were released and that was just to satisfy my one loose and one carded collecting needs.

My stomach turned this morning when I saw this pic over at that other site.  This is the reason I gave up 90% of army building.

(http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/4272/tangies8tp.jpg)

Is this a bit much?  I know people will say if you have the money you can buy what you want but this IMO just ruins the hobby for people who may just collect a couple of figs.  Many of us would be glad to hand out cash to buy a couple figs but 90+  >:(  Come on folks lets leave a few on the pegs for the moderate collectors and kids.  BTW if anyone can find it in there (greedy) heart to let any of the new clones go for cost drop me an email.  Im sorry but to the folks out there who emailed me wanting $10 each for these figs you can blow me.   
Title: Re: Army Building or Hoarding?
Post by: Nathan on March 23, 2006, 01:43 PM
Holy crap ... I can't believe someone dropped $600 on that. Seriously, what the hell do you need with 95 of those anyway?

And yes, at this stage and considering the availability (or lack thereof), that's totally hoarding.

Just ... wow.
Title: Re: Army Building or Hoarding?
Post by: Gatillo on March 23, 2006, 01:44 PM
I do not consider that army building.  That guy has some serious issues and probably need therapy.  With a ratio of 1/6 per case, this is totally hoarding.
Title: Re: Army Building or Hoarding?
Post by: CHEWIE on March 23, 2006, 01:45 PM
Oh god, I agree that's just nuts.  If some is going to need that many of that figure, at least put them in cool diorama for God's sake.

I believe the real problem lies in Hasbro however, no reason for them to have made this figure so hard to get right now.  But at least it's being repacked several times.

 :P
Title: Re: Army Building or Hoarding?
Post by: Nathan on March 23, 2006, 01:47 PM
Shite ... even assuming the low-end price of $5.89 a figure, that's still $559.55 before tax.
Title: Re: Army Building or Hoarding?
Post by: John C on March 23, 2006, 01:50 PM
I'll probably be ripped for saying this, but I don't really care.   I really don't see the need for more than two of any figure, but I understand some people are into army building.  Anyone who needs more than 10 of any figure has problems.  You have an obsessive/compulsive disease and need to seek professional help.  You are taking figures away from others to fill some void in your life IMO.  Go talk to a doctor.  You are no better than a scalper.  Seek help.  These toys will not give you the love your mommy and daddy didn't.  
Title: Re: Army Building or Hoarding?
Post by: CHEWIE on March 23, 2006, 01:56 PM
I don't disagree with you saying you don't really care - but if you have a problem with someone army building, then you are the one with the problem - not me.  I like to make dioramas, tons of them.  It's my hobby.  To make those dioramas it takes army building.  So don't compare me to a scalper.

 :P
Title: Re: Army Building or Hoarding?
Post by: Dan on March 23, 2006, 02:03 PM
Hmmmm.

I have to be careful castnig any stones, seeing as how I have a death star cabinet with about 70 basic stormtroopers and 50-60 other "troops" lined up for inspection. Of course, this has been collected over a period of 10 years, not in a few weeks.

While is is a little sickening to see something like that when so many of us have seen none (I have seen 1), I don't fault anyone for the way they choose to collect. If an army on Utapau is what you want, so be it.  But I think it is reasonable to ask if someone could have amassed that many that quickly without resorting to "unscrupulous" behavior. And if anyone is getting them from the back door of Walmart, Target, or other chain without them hitting the pegs for everyone to have a shot at them, then it is certainly hoarding.
Title: Re: Army Building or Hoarding?
Post by: Darth Slothus on March 23, 2006, 02:09 PM
 Well...I won't say anything about the pic. Just this..Jim... send me a PM and tell me how many you would like for cost, you've dealt with me before and you know I don't scalp!! 10$ each is just BS ::)!!

The UrbanATR(slothus)
Title: Re: Army Building or Hoarding?
Post by: John C on March 23, 2006, 02:09 PM
Can't 10 of one figure make just as good of a diorama as 20?  I would like someone to explain to me why someone needs that many.  It sounds like greed, hoarding, or pack rat mentality.  After you have your ten and you keep on buying, you are taking out figures that could go to someone else.  Just like a scalper would.  That is all I'm trying to say.  
Title: Re: Army Building or Hoarding?
Post by: Nathan on March 23, 2006, 02:11 PM
After the initial reaction, a slightly more considered post from me....

I currently have zero of the Utie, and I still haven't decided whether I want one or not.

I try to make it a practice not to rag on other collectors, even when they do things I consider pointless/weird/OCD etc., but in this case I make an exception.

I have to be careful castnig any stones, seeing as how I have a death star cabinet with about 70 basic stormtroopers and 50-60 other "troops" lined up for inspection. Of course, this has been collected over a period of 10 years, not in a few weeks.

Dan, to me this is the essential distinction.

Let it be said that I don't really have anything against army building, although I personally consider it somewhat pointless. I think the max I have of any one army builder is 6 or so, although I'll admit I do have many more than that if you include multiple releases/versions of the same character.

However, two factors that must be considering in evaluating army building vs. hoarding are 1) time period over which the army was amassed and 2) availability of said troopers. At this stage of the game and considering the availability of this figure (or lack thereof) this is hoarding, not army building. Show me 95 #41 clones or show me your Uties in a year's time, and I wouldn't bat an eye. I'd still say it was pointless, but it'd be different. The Utie has barely come out yet. It all has to do with availability and timing.

BTW, I honestly cannot comprehend how anyone would have the desire, display space, or disposable income for 95 of any figure. Even assuming the low-end price of $5.89 a figure, that's still $559.55 before tax. I wish I had $600 I could throw around on a whim like that.
Title: Re: Army Building or Hoarding?
Post by: Darth Slothus on March 23, 2006, 02:34 PM
--Not to mention the arrogance to show it off--
Title: Re: Army Building or Hoarding?
Post by: Brian on March 23, 2006, 02:51 PM
I agree with what most of you have said already.  I don't fault people for army building, but the above picture is an example of maybe taking it a little too far.  Like it was mentioned, the time period makes a difference too.  I'm sure many people have a whole mess of Stormtroopers, but they've probably been accumulated since 1995...that's different.  This figure has been out not even a month, and you've got 95 of them already?  Seriously.  I too can't fathom possibly dropping that much money on figures like that, nearly $600 for an Utapau clone army.

I do minor army building, and they probably wouldn't even be considered "armies" by most collectors.  I think the most I have of any one figure is maybe 6 commtech Stormies (which I got during the TRU $2 sales), and possibly 5 or so of the white clones from ROTS.  I honestly don't have the budget (or space) to do much more than that, but even if I did, I couldn't see myself getting more than 10 or so (unless I really had a lot of display space).  Honestly, if I'm fortunate enough to find some clones on the pegs, I usually just take what I need (usually just two) and leave the rest.  I found some Utapau clones at WM earlier this week, bought 2 and left 2 more.  I'm on a limited budget, and besides, someone else can have a chance at them.  Its sad that the ones I leave likely go to scalpers or army builders, but I like to hope that they don't.  I feel for any kids (or parents) that would like to get these clones/stormies/etc....they probably don't stand a chance.  Like many of you have said, I have no problem with army building either.  I'd actually like to do a little more of it with some of the OT figures (Stormie, upcoming VTSC Scout), but to me that pic in the first post is an example of hoarding...especially this early in the release. 
Title: Re: Army Building or Hoarding?
Post by: CHEWIE on March 23, 2006, 03:47 PM
Can't 10 of one figure make just as good of a diorama as 20?  I would like someone to explain to me why someone needs that many.  It sounds like greed, hoarding, or pack rat mentality.  After you have your ten and you keep on buying, you are taking out figures that could go to someone else.  Just like a scalper would.  That is all I'm trying to say.  

Ok - let me try and attempt to explain this.  I have a Death Star diorama, a Star Destroyer diorama, a Bespin diorama, an Endor diorama, a Tantive IV diorama, etc.  All of those above diormas have STORMTROOPERS in them.  I am not going to limit myself to 2-3 Stormtroopers in each diorama so all I have in my collection would be 10 Stormtroopers.  Does that not make sense?

For example, here's a couple older pics of my collection room.

(http://chewie34.250free.com/collection-008.jpg)

(http://chewie34.250free.com/collection-005.jpg)

(http://chewie34.250free.com/collection-006.jpg)

(http://chewie34.250free.com/collection-009.jpg)

That's why someone like me likes to army build.  I enjoy it.  I spend thousands of dollars on Star Wars stuff each year.  It's my hobby, and it makes me happy, so I do it.  If there aren't enough army builder figures out there, that's Hasbro's fault.  The market dictates demand (Ecomomics 101) - so I wouldn't blame collectors, I would blame the manufacturer that knows the demand is there but doesn't always do their homework.

As for the case of 95 or 100 Utapau Clones, it is a ton of them, but everyone has the right to get them.  As long as he's not getting them through the back door then it's fair game.  I do think it's a bit extreme, and I agree if can be irritating, but the figure is scheduled for many more case assortments.

Reminds me, I need to update my collection pics.

 :P
Title: Re: Army Building or Hoarding?
Post by: Gatillo on March 23, 2006, 03:54 PM
Can't 10 of one figure make just as good of a diorama as 20?  I would like someone to explain to me why someone needs that many.  It sounds like greed, hoarding, or pack rat mentality.  After you have your ten and you keep on buying, you are taking out figures that could go to someone else.  Just like a scalper would.  That is all I'm trying to say. 

Well I agree with Chewie here.  I do not army build to have 50 troops standing there, unless it is a death star diorama.  I make dioramas and sometimes you need more than 10. 

Examples:

Geonosis arena battle.  How can you have a nice diorama with 12 or so jedi available from that scene and only 10 battle droid and 10 clones.  You need more battle droids than jedi and clones so that it looks "normal".  I got most of my clones from EE, just it was a rip off but hey I did'nt outcompete no kid for them.

Same goes for Endor and hoth dioramas.  10 troopers on each side next to things like AT-ATs just do not cut it IMHO. 

It is all relative.  But in my Naboo diorama I have about 75 battle droids and 35 gungans with vehicles and "beasts" and it looks good to me.

Of course I usually army build beyond say 10 with sale, clerances or online stores.  I have said it many times, I never remove all the army builders from the pegs at once.  If I week goes by and those clones are still there then I help myself but I leave one, two or more depending on how many I find.

This whole topic gave me the hunter's fever.  I am leaving work early to go get me sme clones.
Title: Re: Army Building or Hoarding?
Post by: Darth Slothus on March 23, 2006, 04:18 PM
I read your recent post here Justin and I notice two things ..one, you have ALOT of dios. Two, that looks like alot of dusting :(..(really nice looking dios BTW)

Unfortunately, I was silent before but now I'm not. That's alot of U. clones just standing there to show off. I guess it's  the collectors' right to show it off if he spent that much money.

Jeebus! 90+ already!!? I've bought 35 so far and you know what? Aside from the fact I shipped 10 already, I expect to have 2 in the end(have homes, reservations for the rest). So I may 'appear' to be hoarding but it doesn't matter because I spread the wealth at retail cost to other folks.

I just find it dumb when I see non-realistic formations like that. I don't think I ever saw more than 24 U. clones at once on the screen in the movie. It's OK for trilogy because you see it. This takes the cake though.
what other value is 90+ figs ..all standing there on there bases never moving if not to show-off?Like I said before if they spent that much it's their right then. I don't like it though..but that's just me.

Nice pics J.!

--The UrbanATR
Title: Re: Army Building or Hoarding?
Post by: ruiner on March 23, 2006, 05:00 PM
Chewie's dioramas are the best - no question.

You shouldn't feel bad if you have a set up like Chewie's....but to buy 90 Utapau clones just for ***** and giggles is a little ridiculous.

Title: Re: Army Building or Hoarding?
Post by: CHEWIE on March 23, 2006, 05:09 PM
Ruiner - I don't know about that, but thanks for the nice words.  A lot of them are thanks to www.owenscustoms.com

Gatillo - Yeah that's my whole point, exactly what you said.  Who would want more Jedi in an Arena diorama than Battle Droids?  Maybe to some people that's fine and dandy, but for others we like to have more army builders.  My Arena has about 10-12 Jedi in it, and about 60 red Battle Droids.  I spent a lot of money to get them.  A few times I cleaned out a Walmart or TRU, other times I left many of them too.

The DS - I agree with what you are saying.  I personally see no need at all for that many orange Clones either for one guy... it is pretty sick.  I think if you can find a place to display them where it makes sense, then go for it.  But I can't imagine anyone needing as many as that guy.  As for your having 35 so far being bought, I don't have a problem at all with that (and would be interested in a couple if you have any more).  Thanks for the comments on the dioramas.

Also, I guess there is the case too where you might want to have a fan-fiction diorama, like this fort that Owen made for me.  This is where I put my extra Clones that don't have a movie-diorama home.

(http://chewie34.250free.com/collection002.jpg)

 :P
Title: Re: Army Building or Hoarding?
Post by: Jim on March 23, 2006, 05:42 PM
Chewies dios are what army building is all about IMO.  If anyone even considers it hoarding then your a dope. Its a fantastic way to display and they look great.  I always tried to limit myself with 10 of a fig that I really enjoyed.  Even then, I would buy only two initially. One for my loose collection and one carded.  Then I would selectively buy one here and there. 

On a related note I went to Target this afternoon and they were just filling the pegs.  First time in 5 weeks.  One jackoff stood there and removed all the Utapau's and Scorch's from the 6 cases.  The stock person filled up the pegs and returned the balance of the figs to the stockroom.  What that tells me is that the next few times they restock it will be nothing but Geos, Jangos, Soras and Yodas.  You get the frustrating dilemma alot of people are in. 

Title: Re: Army Building or Hoarding?
Post by: Diddly on March 23, 2006, 05:53 PM
It's really hard to consider what is and isn't hoarding, but this is DEFINATELY hoarding. When there's a HTF figure, like the U. Clone, and you have $600 worth of this HTF figure, it's hoarding.
Title: Re: Army Building or Hoarding?
Post by: Morgbug on March 23, 2006, 07:47 PM
That number (90+) is problematic, no doubt.  But I'm not sure I can put a distinct number on what is or isn't hoarding.  I've kept more shock troops and black pilots than I honestly need.  Same basically goes for the rest of the clones from ROTS.  The primary reason is that's about all that I can gather as trade bait.  Up here we lag behind more often than not and seldom have good stuff first.  We also suffer from trilogo disease.  So relatively few (very, very few) people are going to take a trilogo figure in trade for a US carded figure, particularly if it happens to be something hot like an Utapau clone.  It's the only way I can generate interest at times.  Thankfully most of the crowd here helps out without asking for anything in return, but it sure is nice to be able to at least offer something on occasion. 

I know my behaviour at times irritates some local guys, but there's a hook to it.  During the ROTS release, I'd buy all the shock troopers and black pilots I saw.  To some, that's hoarding.  But I'd just watch guys post and find out who didn't have any, then pm them and sell them to them at cost.  The hook comes in that the guys that I knew would turn around and ebay them or sell them to someone else at a profit margin never got that pm and quite frankly, if I was screwing them over, it makes me happy.  But I can say I never, ever approached 90 of anything in my life.  I'd say my upper bound is 20 or so and I really don't need that many in most cases.  Even VOTC stormies I topped out at 19 and started downsizing.  But at the same time it's hard to unload, because after taxes up here those VOTC stormies were $17 CAD and change.  Not many folks want to reimburse me the $14 USD-ish those cost and I'm usually not prepared to take a loss to help someone out.  Sometimes I do, but not that often.  I don't make that much money. :-\
Title: Re: Army Building or Hoarding?
Post by: Paul on March 23, 2006, 10:15 PM
Army building is not Hoarding OR equivilant to scalping in MY Opinion.

If that is what a person likes to collect, let em.  Would I personally go all the way to 95 of ANYTHING?  Nope probably not.  Does that mean I begrudge somebody else for doing it? Nope. 

I do agree that if the guy got them cuz "They fell off the truck" then that is beyond low and eventually he will get his.  But I think anybody that gets figures that way is slime whether they get 1 or 100 figures.  I don't even hold it against a "stock boy" for pulling a couple out if they are for themselves personally.  There have to be some "perks" to every job.  Selling stuff off the loading dock though, is not one of em.

But if this person went to every store in a 3 state area and bought clones, or had his network of buddies help him out all over town/state/nation or ordered cases from online vendors and that is how he wants to spend his money, go for it.  Is it killing the hobby?  Not in my opinion.  Does it make it harder to collect stuff?  Sure it does, but it is called Collecting, not Gathering.  If it fell from the sky like Mana how many people would "enjoy the hunt?" 

I just think Army Building is part of the hobby, just like Mint on Card, Prop Replicas, Kubricks, Titanium Customizing, Posters, Micro Machines....I don't get into any of that stuff, but I also don't go around hating people that do. (Star Wars Transformers those and Choppers I hate,kidding of course)
Title: Re: Army Building or Hoarding?
Post by: Ben on March 23, 2006, 11:39 PM
This is the kind of thing that really shouldn't be an issue.

Hasbro knows people want more than a few Clones and Stormtroopers and their various offshoots. It's their fault these are so hard to find. If people want to buy 100 Clones, there should be ample enough supply for them, and not just on ebay. (That's another issue there.)

This is part of the reason why I rarely buy more than 5 of a given army builder. I like to think there's such thing as collecting karma, that if I leave a few figures, someday that will come around for something else I want to buy. I broke this rule with the white ROTS Clones only because they were common enough and sat for at least a week before I bought them.
Title: Re: Army Building or Hoarding?
Post by: Ithorian Clergy on March 23, 2006, 11:42 PM
I'll probably be ripped for saying this, but I don't really care.   I really don't see the need for more than two of any figure, but I understand some people are into army building.  Anyone who needs more than 10 of any figure has problems.  You have an obsessive/compulsive disease and need to seek professional help.  You are taking figures away from others to fill some void in your life IMO.  Go talk to a doctor.  You are no better than a scalper.  Seek help.  These toys will not give you the love your mommy and daddy didn't.  

Well, I need more than 10 of some figures.  I do not have problems.  Consider a stormtrooper for a moment.  Say you have a Tantive IV diorama where they are fighting Rebel Fleet Troopers and you have 10 there, then a Bespin diorama for Han's freezing and have 8 there, then a Battle of Endor diorama and have 12 there, and a Death Star diorama for the shuttle landing and have 30 there.  That's 60 stormies, all displayed nicely in cool dios.  

So that's 6 times the maximum limit that I'm allowed to have before someone like yourself comes along and passes judgement on me and tells me I need a doctor, my parents don't love me, and I have problems.

If you ask me, if you care how many and what type of action figures I own, you should go get yourself one of those appointments with a medical professional that you refer to, or better yet, go get yourself a life.
Title: Re: Army Building or Hoarding?
Post by: Darth_Anton on March 23, 2006, 11:56 PM
Hoarding would be if they were kept in the package for future use. However, the poster isn't very popular over there (I hear) and seems very arrogant. So in this case, like the forum member formerly known as Slothus said, he's just showing off.
Title: Re: Army Building or Hoarding?
Post by: Jesse James on March 24, 2006, 04:16 AM
I haven't read everything in detail here but I'll give my thoughts...

First, army building isn't hoarding...  If you wanna hate someone, hate Hasbro and retail because they're making figures hard to find, not collectors.  Army builders are collectors, nothing more and nothing less.  They buy lots of figures NOBODY gave a **** about and helped you in your collecting life, I guarantee that.  Same with customizers...  They buy up the **** you don't care about and keep the pipes clean, or at least contribute to doing so.

That said...

The guy posted the picture to piss people off IMO, and I don't know how he got them but if it was via unscrupulous means then he's not someone I respect in the slightest.  I coulda gotten a figure at Target free the other day because she just scanned it once but I told her there were two there and she scanned the 2nd.  That's my morality kicking in and while I despise retailers I know stealing is wrong and that outweighs my hate.

Fact is, the guy has them opened so I'm inclined to think he wants them...  Of course, does a loose Utapau Clone sell for any less than a carded one?  I doubt it, so let me see this guy take a new picture of ALL these Cloens 10 years from now, and then I'll believe HE wanted them for himself...  I could easily see him breaking them up into groups and ebaying them to be a twit.  I don't know the guy, don't care either.

I firmly believe the photo was meant to irritate...  Personally I wouldn't post pictures of anything currently shipping to "show off" how many I have while others have none.  Do I want that many Utapau Clones?  You're damn right I do and if I could find (and afford) them you better believe I'd have 90 Utapau Clones all lined up like that too.   Don't hate me because I army build, hate Hasbro and Retail...

If that were even a dedicated army building thread like the "How many ____ do you have?" threads, I'd maybe not feel like this, but the guy started his own thread for that picture if I'm not mistaken, and that's just a middle finger to everyone...  Hell, if I had 90 Utapau Clones right now I'd probably dole out a set number to people on the boards.  One-per to everyone...  I'm sure I'd keep a certain ammount for me and my own collecting happiness but I know if I had 90 I'd be sharing with people a CERTAIN number of them.

Unfortunately, I'm struggling to just get to a number I'm content with...  I've yet to see a UTrooper in stores.  I've gotten mind from incredibly helpful friends.  I still don't even have a "team" though.  Paul knows what I'm saying. :)
Title: Re: Army Building or Hoarding?
Post by: John C on March 24, 2006, 09:19 AM
I guess we'll just all have to agree to disagree then.  I don't hate anyone for doing it, but to me, taking a bunch of rare or hard to find figures for yourself no matter what you do with them still means less for others.  I'll STFU now.
Title: Re: Army Building or Hoarding?
Post by: Jim on March 24, 2006, 09:45 AM
I dont want to sound like I have double standards about army building because I dont.  I have no problem with the amounts people collect.  My philosophy is why cant people wait til they become more abundant to capitalize on buying more.  There is no need for someone the first month to buy every possible (desired) figure.  Like someone else said.  It has become bragging rights that " I have 100 Clones and you dont".  Childish?  Most definitely.  Frustrating?  Definitely.  Read my post above about the person removing all the Clones from the 6 cases that were put out at my Target.  The balance of the figs (pegwarmers) that would not fit on the pegs will go back to  the stockroom and the reorder point for new assortments take twice as long.  And as far as the people saying that there is nothing wrong with it, I bet those same people have 6-8 Walmarts and 2-3 Targets in the area they live, where finding figures becomes much easier since the close proximity these stores are to where they live.  I have 3 Walmarts in my area and 1 Target.  But they are within a range of 50 miles so the frequency of me hitting these stores (especially at the right time) makes the hunt that much more difficult. Plus they are much smaller stores due to geographic and economic area I live in.
Title: Re: Army Building or Hoarding?
Post by: Ithorian Clergy on March 24, 2006, 09:50 AM
One jackoff stood there and removed all the Utapau's and Scorch's from the 6 cases. 


An employee jackoff or a customer jackoff?
Title: Re: Army Building or Hoarding?
Post by: Jim on March 24, 2006, 09:54 AM
One jackoff stood there and removed all the Utapau's and Scorch's from the 6 cases. 


An employee jackoff or a customer jackoff?

A Customer.   The thing that sucks is that the employee let him take all the Clones out of the 6 boxes.  The employee should of only stocked 3 cases and left the other 3 complete for the back.  This is another problem where someone making miniumum wage could give two squats.
Title: Re: Army Building or Hoarding?
Post by: Ithorian Clergy on March 24, 2006, 10:37 AM
One jackoff stood there and removed all the Utapau's and Scorch's from the 6 cases. 


An employee jackoff or a customer jackoff?

A Customer.   The thing that sucks is that they employee let him take all the Clones out of the 6 boxes.  The employee should of only stocked 3 cases and left the other 3 complete for the back.  This is another problem where someone making miniumum wage could give to squats.

I hear you.  Especially if they don't know Star Wars at all, they really don't care then.  I think they make a little more than minimum wage though, maybe as much as $10/hour actually.  In the store reports I saw someone on the boards here named Holographic Elvis who works at Target, he'd know.
Title: Re: Army Building or Hoarding?
Post by: Holographic Elvis on March 24, 2006, 12:18 PM
I work at Target, but I run the overnight process (I'm an exec and salaried) so I make more than the sales floor employees who start at like $8 or $9 an hour.  When we stock at night, the Target common practice is to push to the piece.  For example, we got 3 cases of figs in the other night (crappy revision case, I posted the breakdown in the So Cal thread) and all 3 cases fit on the floor because we only had 3 Bib and 3 Poggle on the pegs.  Now had only 2 cases fit on the floor, the other case would have been backstocked and then probably made its way to the floor later in the day had enough figures sold. 

If you saw someone picking through 6 cases, then it was either someone's buddy getting hooked up or the employee just didn't care and brought all the cases to the floor that they had.  In my experience with Target toy managers and the people who work in that dept., I'm gonna lean heavily toward that person being the employee's friend.  There would be no reason for 6 cases of figs to hit the floor, even if the pegs were empty, because only about 4 cases will go out.  Is there something else you guys were wondering about this topic?  I'll answer anything I can.

As for the army building, I don't see it as hoarding if you are actually opening those figs and building an army.  If someone has a stack of 20 of each Clone at home, in the package, then you have to suspect hoarding. 
Title: Re: Army Building or Hoarding?
Post by: Darth Slothus on March 24, 2006, 12:26 PM
Definately hoarding except when I'm holding them for our swap meet for you guys ;) In that case it's different because they won't remain in my hand forever.
What I can't sell to you guys for retail go back to the store. Thanks for the insight, Jason

--Jon
Title: Re: Army Building or Hoarding?
Post by: Jim on March 24, 2006, 12:50 PM
Something I have found lately is that OT troop figs have been sitting in my area for a bit. Go figure ??? The AT-AT Driver is one of the best
new figs out there and I counted 10 on the pegs this lunchtime.  And they have been there for a spell.
Title: Re: Army Building or Hoarding?
Post by: CHEWIE on March 24, 2006, 12:58 PM
I'm surprised the AT-AT driver is being easier to find, but I'm not complaining.  I've bought about 12 of them so far, a few for customs.  I just wish we'd get huge shipments of VOTC Stormies on these cards.

 :P
Title: Re: Army Building or Hoarding?
Post by: Clone Hunter on March 24, 2006, 08:24 PM
This picture irritates me because these are so hard to get.

I have 9 Utapau Clones:

Two I found at retail, awhile ago in wave 3.
Two from a friend in PA.
Four I scored at at Walmart Tuesday. I bought a full set of the wave plus a Cody, Lousros Dophin, and the 4 clones to open. I overdrafted my credit limit and was penalized $ 70, but at least I am current, except a pending Scorch.
One from an auction I paid too much for. $40 shipped for a Cody + clone. Anybody need a Cody?

Now, I have buddies all over looking for me too, but I offer them vintage Transformers for things they might find at retail. Is that bad behavior? After all, I am the Clone Hunter.
Title: Re: Army Building or Hoarding?
Post by: Kill_Solo on March 24, 2006, 08:57 PM
Man I have one of these opened, and I've left at least 15, minimum, on the pegs .... I may pick up another one down the road. I think there will be plenty of these available down the road. Who cares if folks want to army build.
Title: Re: Army Building or Hoarding?
Post by: Jesse James on March 25, 2006, 03:28 AM
I say again though guys...  If you want this to change, the guy with 90 isn't the problem...  Hasbro and Retail are.  Till Hasbro packs a case of 4 UClones, 4 Scorch, and 4 Cody, those 3 figures are going to suck to find...

I don't know about all your areas, but I can speak for Pittsburgh.  In my area, out of at least 5 WM's I've hit lately, only 2 have pegs for figures and not one figure on them.  My Target stores have 3 or 4 pegs, and they're only ever sparsely filled with pegwarmers...  Very few "good" finds at these stores.

I can't find Utie Clones either, trust me, and not for lack of effort...  While I know some army builders are getting them around me, and I know some scalpers are too (saw them at the show a couple weeks ago), I also know Hasbro and retail are MAKING this hobby this way.  Look at the UGH ****...  The line is in its most dismal place if you ask me.  Hasbro I blame mostly...  Retail is still a close 2nd place.

It's ugly out there...  Our area just haven't gotten the large quantities out west seem to have picked up.  I have no clue why things are this bad...  I don't even think it's that the line is selling as well as last year, but rather that there's just nothing out there and I think there's a perception from many that crap is underproduced this year.  I dunno though, it's ugly at the stores though and I wish you could buy what you want when you want online without dealing with these stores at this point.
Title: Re: Army Building or Hoarding?
Post by: Fritzkrieg on March 25, 2006, 11:57 AM
I'm an Army Buider. I collect Clones and Stormtroopers by the Hundreds. It takes time to build Armies that Large at retail price, so I wake up early and hit every Target and Walmart on my way to work every morning. Usally I get there before other collectors do, but not always. For the first couple of months when an Army Buider, like a Clone or Stormtrooper is realeased, I buy everyone I see. Once I've  satified my apetite for a paticular figure, I start to slow down and pick only the best examples of that Army Builder I can find (Perfect Paint Aps). Then I may start only picking up that figure for  Customs I want to make. For this I usually buy Imperfect figs, as I hate destroying Perfect Army Builders. After that I usually Stop Buying that Figure, But, by that time I've amassed a respectable Army. The Size of the Army I build usually depends on My Diorama needs, For Example the 501st Troopers I need about 30, The Emperors Red Shock Trooper about 10, White Episode 1 Clones 200+, Stormtroopers 250+. I know Some of you think I'm a major Butt Hole for buying so many Troopers, but I work hard to meet my collecting goals, and I work hard for the Money I use to obtain it. So, I have every right to Buy as Many of these figures as I want. If your whiny ass can't find the Army Builders your looking for, mabey you should get your lazy ass out of bed a little earlier or do a late Night Walmart Run when they are Stocking the Shelves, and mabey you'll get those figures that I am Hoarding for my own Greedy purposes. Or, Just wait till I have my fill and take the Scraps I leave for you. Army Builders Like me are going to insure that Hasbro make Plenty of Trooper figs for you to collect, So when they finally make that Delta Squad 4 Pack that you so Desperately want, just remeber that us Army Builders made it Happed for you.
Title: Re: Army Building or Hoarding?
Post by: Gatillo on March 25, 2006, 12:50 PM
I see your point but I do not see the need for the comments.  Did you have ass for breakfast ???  I mean that is all you say.

I do have problems with people that buy by the hundres and I honestly think people that go to those lengths should seek medical help.  A display of 100 troopers cannot be better with 200 not by a long shot.

Everyone here works hard for their money.  Whether they get paid $10 or $50/hour, we work hard for it and again your comment is unnecessary.  If you feel ofended by the "hoarding" comments then maybe you should stop hoarding the little plastic toys.

Despite that I am always the 1st one at Target on the morning and that has only yielded one U clone, so I guess I better move to where you live.  I usually do quite well and I do not complain here but lately it has been dryer than normal.

By the way, Chewie posted some pictures to make his point, would you post some so that we can be impressed with your army building tactics.
Title: Re: Army Building or Hoarding?
Post by: Dressel Rebel on March 25, 2006, 02:29 PM
I'm an Army Buider. I collect Clones and Stormtroopers by the Hundreds. It takes time to build Armies that Large at retail price, so I wake up early and hit every Target and Walmart on my way to work every morning. Usally I get there before other collectors do, but not always. For the first couple of months when an Army Buider, like a Clone or Stormtrooper is realeased, I buy everyone I see. Once I've  satified my apetite for a paticular figure, I start to slow down and pick only the best examples of that Army Builder I can find (Perfect Paint Aps). Then I may start only picking up that figure for  Customs I want to make. For this I usually buy Imperfect figs, as I hate destroying Perfect Army Builders. After that I usually Stop Buying that Figure, But, by that time I've amassed a respectable Army. The Size of the Army I build usually depends on My Diorama needs, For Example the 501st Troopers I need about 30, The Emperors Red Shock Trooper about 10, White Episode 1 Clones 200+, Stormtroopers 250+. I know Some of you think I'm a major Butt Hole for buying so many Troopers, but I work hard to meet my collecting goals, and I work hard for the Money I use to obtain it. So, I have every right to Buy as Many of these figures as I want.

I'm with you here, and have similar collecting habits.

.
.
.
.
.
 Except, your post went horribly wrong at this point:


If your whiny ass can't find the Army Builders your looking for, mabey you should get your lazy ass out of bed a little earlier or do a late Night Walmart Run when they are Stocking the Shelves, and mabey you'll get those figures that I am Hoarding for my own Greedy purposes. Or, Just wait till I have my fill and take the Scraps I leave for you. Army Builders Like me are going to insure that Hasbro make Plenty of Trooper figs for you to collect, So when they finally make that Delta Squad 4 Pack that you so Desperately want, just remeber that us Army Builders made it Happed for you.
Title: Re: Army Building or Hoarding?
Post by: Famine on March 25, 2006, 06:22 PM
Fritz, say it isn't so on that last part!

Surely you jest?

Kevin
Title: Re: Army Building or Hoarding?
Post by: Artoo on March 25, 2006, 07:26 PM
When I saw I think I **** myself that many clones in a month is crazy!Maybe over a couple years but a month!? :-\
Title: Re: Army Building or Hoarding?
Post by: Clone Hunter on March 25, 2006, 07:27 PM
I do not think it was directed at me, but I was not offended by Fritzkreigs post. I totally agree in every way.

It comes down to if you feel it is so important you'll take the necessary steps to make sure you get what you need.

In my distinct situation, I grab every clone I can get my grubby hands on, but I have only one AT-AT driver, one Snowtrooper, or any other OT figure. Still impisoned on card. I know and like the OT but I am a prequel only collector, so that leaves more OT army building for everyone else. I think it balances out karmawise?
Title: Re: Army Building or Hoarding?
Post by: CHEWIE on March 25, 2006, 07:50 PM
Guys, I don't think Fritz meant anything in a bad way; I think any comments that might be perceived as rude were directed at anyone who hates collectors that army-build, and I have no problem with defending the way he or I collect. 

Fritz definitely out-builds me on the armies, that's for sure.  But I agree with what he's saying - why does he have so many?  Because he works two jobs - real life and collecting.  He seems very dedicated to both of them.  If he didn't go on such hard toy runs he wouldn't have nearly the army he has and someone else would have just beaten him to them. 

 :P
Title: Re: Army Building or Hoarding?
Post by: Reid on March 25, 2006, 07:54 PM
I'm an Army Buider. I collect Clones and Stormtroopers by the Hundreds. It takes time to build Armies that Large at retail price, so I wake up early and hit every Target and Walmart on my way to work every morning. 

I'm glad I don't live in Lake Worth FL.

 :P
Title: Re: Army Building or Hoarding?
Post by: Jim on March 25, 2006, 08:31 PM
Yeah I did not appreciate that end remark by Fritz.  That shows little respect IMO.  Let me point out where you are wrong. And when I say wrong I mean 100% wrong.

1.  I work a job from 6AM til 6PM with no 24 hour Stores, so hitting a store first    thing in the morning or late at night is not an option.

2.  Most stores are a considerable drive for me.

3.  People here who have families will understand that this hobby, collecting is second after your family.  Try supporting a family of 4 on one income in Massachusetts.  One of the most expensive states to live in.  And dont get me wrong, I would never want to leave here. 

4.  The whiny remark was way out of line IMO.  You are either too young to understand why you are wrong or dont have the responsibilites like others on these forums.  Just my 2 cents. 
Title: Re: Army Building or Hoarding?
Post by: CHEWIE on March 25, 2006, 08:43 PM
Well I totally agree that supporting family comes way before a hobby, completely agree with that.  I guess with the amount of time some of us spend on the forums, some of us think that everyone that posts here a lot goes through the same hunting rituals.  But at the same time I don't think it's fair to get mad at someone who does have time for the toy runs.  I think most, if not all of us here have made a comment or two that we didn't really mean and don't think anyone should hold a grudge over a comment. 

Fritz mostly posts in the customizing section and is a very, very nice guy.  For those those that don't know him you'll probably say come in here more often to this section, but I'd say the same to you, come on in the customizing section some more too.   :)

 :P
Title: Re: Army Building or Hoarding?
Post by: Nicklab on March 26, 2006, 11:11 PM
95 Utapau Clones, huh?  Considering the figure has only been out for a month or so, I think we can safely call this hoarding.

I'm an army builder.  I understand the methodology and the motives.  You want to have a pretty good sized unit of Clones, Stormtroopers or Battle Droids to have in some kind of formation.  But 95 Utapau Clones?  That's more than I'll ever own.  I think I have 8 open right now, and it's almost overwhelming my small Utapau diorama.  I'll probably max out at 10 of these.

The point here is that you've got to be reasonable about this kind of collecting.  Exercise some good judgement.  Restraint is not a bad thing, either.
Title: Re: Army Building or Hoarding?
Post by: Famine on March 26, 2006, 11:54 PM
The point here is that you've got to be reasonable about this kind of collecting.  Exercise some good judgement.  Restraint is not a bad thing, either.


Your version of reasonable and restraint must be different than mine.

Kevin
Title: Re: Army Building or Hoarding?
Post by: exjedi on March 26, 2006, 11:57 PM
95 Utapau Clones, huh?  Considering the figure has only been out for a month or so, I think we can safely call this hoarding.

I'm an army builder.  I understand the methodology and the motives.  You want to have a pretty good sized unit of Clones, Stormtroopers or Battle Droids to have in some kind of formation.  But 95 Utapau Clones?  That's more than I'll ever own.  I think I have 8 open right now, and it's almost overwhelming my small Utapau diorama.  I'll probably max out at 10 of these.

The point here is that you've got to be reasonable about this kind of collecting.  Exercise some good judgement.  Restraint is not a bad thing, either.

I am an Army Builder as well, don't know how the **** anyone managed to get 95 of the Utapau Clones already, but I agree that should take more than a couple weeks to build something up to that level.

I catch plenty of **** from people that get really pissed off at me for having so many of the same figure and there has been so much comparison of Army builders to scalpers that it is really starting to get out of hand.   I can understand the FU attitude some people have had towards others that are offended by their collecting habits.  I can also understand being the guy that hasn't found jack for weeks, then you go online and see some jag-bag gloating about how plentiful the figures have been in his area.  

I am not finding the Coruscant wave because of scalpers or Army builders.  I am not finding the figures becasue the stores are only getting in 1 case of 12 figures every week.  It's a damn distribution problem, plain and simple.   Trust me, if there were enough items being produced in the first place, we would be complaining about how jammed the pegs are and wondering how in the hell the stores are going to get rid of them all before the next wave starts shipping.

Collectors piss & moan when there are too many figures out there and cry foul in every direction when there is not enough.  The Army Builder thing is way overblown as well as the panic over scalpers.  Instead of bitching about it online and pointing the finger at each other as the reason why we can't find a Commander Cody or Clone Trooper, we need to spend as much time bitching to Hasbro and Retail outlets that are causing the mayhem in the first place...
Title: Re: Army Building or Hoarding?
Post by: Darth Slothus on March 27, 2006, 12:10 AM

 Because he works two jobs - real life and collecting.  He seems very dedicated to both of them. 
 :P

What? He gets paid to collect as a second job? I don't understand what you meant here Chewie.... :-\

I can understand that real life is a job though. Definately a tough one the more kids you have! ;)
Title: Re: Army Building or Hoarding?
Post by: Jesse James on March 27, 2006, 12:48 AM
Guys, let's keep calm heads in this thread...

First, I have to agree with some of the posters Fritz that either what you said was being taken out of the context you intended it, or you were being a little rude with your wording...

"Lazy" and all that?  I think that's harsh.  I army build, I earn what I obtain too, but at the same time I think people need to keep the frame of mind that collecting isn't a "me me me" hobby if you're involved in communities like here at JediDefender or elsewhere too...  You should try, if possible, to look out for your friends in the hobby and not have the attitude that "You can have the scraps I leave you".  I mean, don't you think the way you worded that comes off a tad bit snobbish at best?  Even if it wasn't directed at anyone in this thread, which as mod here I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt there...

If it was pointed at anyone here, I really don't want to see that in the future.  I didn't agree with the original posters points about army builders...  To me, 95 figures is your right if you find them fair and square, and if you're a part of collecting and not scalping you're a welcome member of the collecting community. 

At the same time, I'd like to think most of the guys around these boards would've found 95 figures and shared some of them with local friends or friends online, whatever... 

Anyway, as noted I'm giving the benefit of the doubt with exactly how Fritzkrieg said what he did...  I don't think anyone in this thread has said they hate army builders or what they do...  Loathe the guy that posted the picture of 95 at Rebelscum perhaps, but not hating anyone IN THIS THREAD, and I don't think Fritzkrieg then was directing his hostility towards anyone.

At the same time I'm asking that we rethink what we're typing sometimes before we hit the "Post" button too...  It's easy to be in the targeted group.  When people can't find one, it's not always because they're lazy or whatnot...  I know that despite my best efforts around here I can't find much of anything nor can my local friends, so that's not laziness on our part, it's simply that this area doesn't have as much right now.  Hell our WM stores dont' even have pegs for figures, so that's a whole outlet gone from Pittsburgh right now...  Hardly lazy then.

And also, I'm an army builder, I build HUGE armies into the hundreds too...  To me it's part of what makes me happy, but at the same time I like to try to help at least a couple people out if I can...  Sometimes I give up something I really would rather keep, sometimes I keep everything I have (I've never sold a VOTC Stormie for instance), but at the end of the day I do like to pay the hobby back and I think everyone should try to do that some too...  Help a friend, help a stranger, whatever, but helping out someone to get ONE of something you have 250+ of isn't necessarilly a bad concept.

And definitely, please, don't gloat when it's obviously bothersome...  It's looking for trouble really.  That's what the guy at Rebelscum did and the point of the thread (to me) more than anything.  He posted the picture as a big middle finger to a LOT of people who aren't having an easy time in the hobby.  That's just not cool beans.  Thoughtfulness is cool and all that crap. :)
Title: Re: Army Building or Hoarding?
Post by: CHEWIE on March 27, 2006, 02:06 AM

 Because he works two jobs - real life and collecting.  He seems very dedicated to both of them. 
 :P

What? He gets paid to collect as a second job? I don't understand what you meant here Chewie.... :-\

I can understand that real life is a job though. Definately a tough one the more kids you have! ;)

Slothus, you know what I mean - for some of us, collecting is like a second job.  For real life, I meant whatever his career is.  For collecting, I mean that it can be work to find what you want in non-movie years, especially for us army builders and those of us that buy a lot of extras for custom fodder.  That's all I meant.

 :P
Title: Re: Army Building or Hoarding?
Post by: Darth Slothus on March 27, 2006, 02:20 AM
Ok, thanks then Chewie..I was having trouble wondering how he could get all that with 2 real jobs going.
Title: Re: Army Building or Hoarding?
Post by: Spectre on March 27, 2006, 03:01 AM
This thread just makes me glad that I don't like or collect Clones! ;)  I've been able to get just about everything I have been looking for this year (and most years) thast way :D

To keep this a bit more on-topic: I strongly disagree with the army building = hoarding sentiment, simply because sometimes you actually need alot of a particular figure for whatever reason you collect them (unless they are still carded, with no intent to open, then it's haording ;) ).

Lord knows I have alot of figures, but even I have to admit after seeing that pic, that amassing 95 of a particular character, especially a fairly hard to find one at that, over so short a time is a bit nuts in my opinion.

Just take into account the sheer logistics of it (I'm a logistics analyst by trade ;) )- all of the running around, trying to beat other collectors or scalpers to stores, gas burned running all over looking for toys, monetary output, time involved, low availability of particular item, possibility of having to commit immoral/unethical acts to get said toys, etc., etc., etc.

It's staggering! And actually, if you REALLY get down to the bare nuts and bolts of it, not worth the effort involved considering that the end result of all that energy/time/money spent is just a pile of plastic toys, not improving your/others' way of life or standard of living, not making anyone else happy, not doing anything of "true" import, just a pile of toys.

Here's what I have to wonder:

Does owning a ton of little plastic men that others are having difficulty finding bring him actual "joy"?

Does this individual spend ANY time doing anything else but collecting?

Where does his money come from? (he doesn't seem to have the time to actually work if he's running all over grabbing up toys)

Does he have a wife or kids? And, more importantly, would any wife actually stand for that type of (seemingly) wasteful time management or lack of attention given to her/the kids?

Is he trying to compensate for a "shortcoming"? ;)



Sure, I build decent-sized armies, not as big as some peoples', but alot bigger than most. I think I top out at 160 of any particular figure (standard Stormtroopers), but here's the key thing, they are made up of all the versions available throughout the life of the line (POTF2 through current), not all the most recent version. You get alittle variety in their appearance that way (and you don't end up in the poor house from re-buying hundreds of figures everytime a "better" version comes along ;) ). And I have amassed them since 1995, not just in the last month.

I also used to buy tons of figures for customizing fodder. In the past, I've cleared out entire pegwalls of common figures for use in customs, freeing up valuable space for newer waves to come in. I don't feel that made me a hoarder, especially as I usually did this after the figures had been clogging the pegs for at least a few months. I don't do this anymore simply because there are more important things to spend my money on (girlfriend, rent, car insurance, groceries, etc.). The same goes for my toy runs, I used to go every day, now I go maybe once a week, life takes priority over little plastic people.

Even my customizing takes a back seat to real life. In years past, I'd complete 5 or more figures or a decent-sized vehicle each week, now I only really pop out one figure a week, if I get the time (I have not posted anything new in 2 weeks because I'm working on a massive Super Secret project that I want to debut all at once when the entire thing is finished, most likely the end of next month/early May). I'll occasionally do customizing marathons if I have the spare time and energy (see my 2 most recent entries in my "The Brotherhood Of The Serpent" line! 6 figures in one and 3 in the other!), but those marathons come further and further apart lately as I just can't justify devoting massive amounts of time/energy to a hobby anymore when there are other things that need to take priority.
Title: Re: Army Building or Hoarding?
Post by: Clone Commander on March 27, 2006, 04:22 AM
Why do I get the feeling evberybody is at eachothers throats?   :P

I think if people want to go nuts on spending spree's on Clone Troopers ect. than let them, its not exectly doing anybody any harm exept for telling hasbro that they need to release more army builders.
Besides theres more where that has come from and we've all still got a good whole year to army build so we all might as well try if we want to.
I dont see why you guys are so made about 95 clones.
I meen I agree its a ridiculous amount but still he has the time and the money so let him go nuts!  :-\

Well it is questionable how he amassed this "army" of clones but then again some people are extreme collectors and they put thier soul into it. (If thats possible but you know what I meen, people have to have a hobby! :P)

Quote
Does owning a ton of little plastic men that others are having difficulty finding bring him actual "joy"?

I suppose so?

Quote
Sure, I build decent-sized armies, not as big as some peoples', but alot bigger than most. I think I top out at 160 of any particular figure (standard Stormtroopers), but here's the key thing, they are made up of all the versions available throughout the life of the line (POTF2 through current), not all the most recent version. You get alittle variety in their appearance that way (and you don't end up in the poor house from re-buying hundreds of figures everytime a "better" version comes along  ). And I have amassed them since 1995, not just in the last month.

I also used to buy tons of figures for customizing fodder. In the past, I've cleared out entire pegwalls of common figures for use in customs, freeing up valuable space for newer waves to come in. I don't feel that made me a hoarder, especially as I usually did this after the figures had been clogging the pegs for at least a few months. I don't do this anymore simply because there are more important things to spend my money on (girlfriend, rent, car insurance, groceries, etc.). The same goes for my toy runs, I used to go every day, now I go maybe once a week, life takes priority over little plastic people.

Even my customizing takes a back seat to real life. In years past, I'd complete 5 or more figures or a decent-sized vehicle each week, now I only really pop out one figure a week, if I get the time (I have not posted anything new in 2 weeks because I'm working on a massive Super Secret project that I want to debut all at once when the entire thing is finished, most likely the end of next month/early May). I'll occasionally do customizing marathons if I have the spare time and energy (see my 2 most recent entries in my "The Brotherhood Of The Serpent" line! 6 figures in one and 3 in the other!), but those marathons come further and further apart lately as I just can't justify devoting massive amounts of time/energy to a hobby anymore when there are other things that need to take priority.


Hmmm...that is great advice spectre!  :o


Well really life takes first priority but then again it depends on your life itself not everybody leads he same life...what if hes secretly a multimillionaire  :P !?!?!?

Meh, let the people have fun with thier toys!  :)

Afterall they are only plastic soldiers!  :P

Title: Re: Army Building or Hoarding?
Post by: Sentinel on March 27, 2006, 08:16 AM
I think that if the figure is common then hey, army build all you want, however, if it is not so common, such as Cody or U Clone, then leave some there for the collectors to find and don't hoard it. ;)
Title: Re: Army Building or Hoarding?
Post by: Darth_Anton on March 27, 2006, 09:27 AM
I think that if the figure is common then hey, army build all you want, however, if it is not so common, such as Cody or U Clone, then leave some there for the collectors to find and don't hoard it. ;)

What makes Cody of the U Clone less common than the others? They make just as many, if not more of those than the others.
Title: Re: Army Building or Hoarding?
Post by: Dressel Rebel on March 27, 2006, 09:46 AM

What makes Cody of the U Clone less common than the others?

Popularity causing increased sales can have the same effect on availability as an item being short-produced.  Not every collector collects every figure, but apparently between the clone popularity and the army building aspect most collectors pick these two up, the same end result happens - you don't see the figure on the pegs as much.

If you want to wretch, take a look at the eBay results when you enter "Commander Cody" into their search engine.  There are over 600 Cody figures listed there for sale with an average first bid of $12 or more.  Additionally, Cody is almost always packaged with 1-4 Utapau clones in the eBay auction, and in many cases numbers higher than that.

But what I've learned is that in the end, one way or the other, you'll get your figures.
Title: Re: Army Building or Hoarding?
Post by: CHEWIE on March 27, 2006, 10:58 AM
Wow, the number of Cody figures on ebay is sick - just sick.

 :P
Title: Re: Army Building or Hoarding?
Post by: Spectre on March 27, 2006, 11:20 AM
But what I've learned is that in the end, one way or the other, you'll get your figures.

That's exactly how I feel about it. Having patience pays off in the end almost 100% of the time.

If you are the type of collector that feels they "must" have every new figure and in the quantities they would like the second that the figures hit the pegs, and you have the resources to do so, more power to you. I hold no ill will towards anyone else in the collecting world.

I, on the other hand, do not have alot of disposable income/free time to buy everything in the quantities that I want, but I do have something that alot of collectors do not- patience.

For Example:

I had been missing 4 Saga (2002-2004) figures for quite some time (McQuarrie Concept Stormtrooper, Ayy Vida, Walmart Cantina Set Momaw Nadon, and the blond Imperial Officer). While aside from the rather lackluster Concept Stormie, none of these figures are actually "hard to find" or "desirable", these basic figures never showed up in my area in any kind of decent numbers. Then take the Cantina Sets (I just wanted Nadon as he was the only figure to have new parts that actually looked decent, I eventually ended up with a couple of Ponda Babas from the K-Mart Sets and the Greedo is identical to another release so I really don't care about him), there was only 1 Walmart in all of North NJ when the Cantina Sets hit and they stocked 1 case which ended up in the hands of a disgustiongly dirty known scalper who had them on his table at the Wayne Toy Show the following weekend marked up to $24 each :(  Needless to say, I never found any of the above at retail and I refused to pay e-bay prices or outragous shipping from etailers. I just aquired 2 of the 4 figures (1 Concept Stormie, and Ayy Vida- in multiples no less!) last summer in trades I did with members here and on other boards. I finally got my Cantina Momaw Nadon last week in a trade with someone over at JoeCustoms. I still need at least 1 blond Imperial Officer, which I'm confident I'll get eventually. Total cost for me on these figures- some random pieces from my Swap Shop and the cost of shipping them to my trading partners. Total headache involved in aquiring said figures- none :D


Here's an example of army building patience:

I've been planning an Imperial Garrison diorama for about 8 years that I plan on getting around to building in the near future and really would like to have about 2 dozen Deathstar Troopers for it. At the time of his initial release, it was impossible to find even 1 of them in my neck of the woods. Through trades (strangly, mostly from European sources) I was able to aquire about 5 or 6 of them, far short of my goal, but a start none the less. I have recently aquired a few more in trades (the exact number is unknown at this point due to everything still being packed up from the move) but I'm sure the number has not yet reached even the first dozen I would like. Am I disappointed, I must admit that I may be, slightly, but I know that my collecting (and my dioramas/displays) are an ongoing, constantly evolving thing. If I don't have my full 2 dozen by the time my diorama is built, I'll just leave the spaces for them open and fill them in as I get more. No harm, no foul. I collect for myself, not to show off to anyone else :D

Another army building example:

Even though my dislike for all things Clone-related is well known in the customizing community, I would actually like some Scorch figures. Not to make Delta Squad as is most people's reasons for aquiring multiples of this "hard to find figure" (well, right behind ripping people off on ebay anyway ;) ), but because I always grab a quartet (or better) of any new armored trooper/character that comes out for customizing purposes. I happen to feel that a repainted/modded Scortch with a different head/helmet/accessories would make an awsome armored Merc squad, or Bounty Hunters, or just about anything. Just imagine a customized Scortch body with a "Halo" Master Chief head- how cool would that be? I have yet to see a single Scortch that is not in the hands or on the show table of our local scalper scum, but I'm not dismayed because I know that eventually I'll get my 3 or 4, even if it's years down the road and there's no "deadline" on making customs :D
Title: Re: Army Building or Hoarding?
Post by: Fritzkrieg on March 27, 2006, 11:39 AM
First of all, How my comments about some Collectors being whiny and Lazy, could ever be considered more offensive than some others comments of Army Building being a form of mental Illness, is beyond me.The rant at the end of my post was a defensive response to those Comments and I do not apologise for defending myself and other Army Builders w/ Vigor. Although the Cursing was Wrong and for that I do Apologise. I do not think that the Collection of 95 UT Clones was aquired through standard retail collecting avenues, It would be highly improbable to aquire that many UT Clones in such a short amount of time. So, this guy most likely paid a higher price than most of us would for his Army. If he has the resources to do it let him. It is a free Country after all :-\.  I personally have a very good territory  for my Collecting needs, I aquire most of my Army Builders from 4 or 5 Retail Stores that are on my route to and from the Office. So, my collecting Does not cut into my real life as much as some. It just requires, not hitting the Snooze Button more than once. I live in a Major  Metropolitan  part of South FL and their are Dozens of other Retail Stores for other Collectors to have at that I do not frequent regulary. My Collection did not magically apear over night, I began Collecting Star Wars again in 1995, so my Collection of 250 Stormtroopers was aquired over 11 Years. Thats 4,015 Days, which means I've aquired .062 of my Stromtrooper collection every Day over the Last 11 Years. A lot of that was aquired through Trades (Helping the Star Wars Community). I've been a member of the Star Wars Trade Fedration since 2000, and have helped many of my fellow collectors get Hard to find Figures. At one point I was Trading the Lego Republic Gunships for 10 Sneak Preview Troopers, If thats not helping other Collectors out I don't know what is. A lot of other collectors feel that army Builders hurt the Hobby, But if you took the Army Builders out of the Hobby do you think Hasbro would be so commited to making Star Wars Figures. Every Army Builder leaves a much larger imprint on the action figure  Market than a regular Collector, I personally feel that I leave a Market Imprint of at leats 10 Normal Collectors or Kids. If you take that Imprint and those of every other Army Builder out of the Market How long do you think Hasbro will feel that the Star Wars Brand is a Viable License. I would put Money on the fact that the Utapau Clone will see the Largest Realease of any of the figures released this year, Because of Arny Builders like myself. Now on the Defensive again, I have a very full Life, a little to full if you ask my friends and Family. I have a Wonderful Wife ( She lets me have My Own Star Wars Room too) and 2 Boys (Spaz & Stitch), whom I put above my Collecting Always! I wake up every Mornig at   5 AM to go for a Run or go to the Gym.  I Compete in Triathlons Durring the Spring and summer Months. I'm a Regional Manager of an Optical Chain, which takes up about 60 Hrs of my time a week. I also have a Small Ebay Buisness that I run. (No Scalping!!!!). My point is that I feel these attacks on Army Builders are out of jealousy and not of any logical reasoning. Army Building is good for the Hobby. Look at the Products we have recieved because of Army Building. The Entertainment Earth Clone Trooper 4 Packs, Clone Army 3 Packs from the Clone Wars and Revenge of the Sith, Comtech and Sand trooper army Buider 4 Packs, The Target Clone Troopers and Coruscant Attack Multipack, And We've Got a Great Set of ARC Troopers from the Clone Wars Series comming Up. :)

Long Live the GAR!

Fritzkrieg
Title: Re: Army Building or Hoarding?
Post by: CHEWIE on March 27, 2006, 12:32 PM
Good post Fritz, and long live the Army Building.   :)

Your kids got to love your collection.

 :P
Title: Re: Army Building or Hoarding?
Post by: Clone Commander on March 27, 2006, 01:19 PM
And the world goes back to normal.  :)
Title: Re: Army Building or Hoarding?
Post by: Gatillo on March 27, 2006, 02:38 PM
Unfortunately people will always attack army builders.  Some jockstrap almost took some figures from my wife's shopping cart because she had 3 U clones in there for me this past weekend.  She had to yell at the guy.  He said he only wanted one.  The funny thing is that my wife would have given one to him if he had asked before dipping his hands in the cart (if you are the guy and you are reading this, well, that's life dude :P).

I totally agree that the early bird should get the worm.  I do not go to Target at 8 for my health or to WM at 7 for coffee.

I think people tend to be more frazzled in non-movie years when figures start to hit and they cannot find them.  Our hobby lacks the patience that others have. 

Just like the #41 ROTS clone, U clones will eventually be in the pegs (because all of the assortments they continue to ship in) and people will pass them over.  I see AT-AT drivers in the pegs all the time now as opposed to a month ago.
Title: Re: Army Building or Hoarding?
Post by: Reid on March 27, 2006, 04:58 PM
Army Building is good for the Hobby. Look at the Products we have recieved because of Army Building. The Entertainment Earth Clone Trooper 4 Packs, Clone Army 3 Packs from the Clone Wars and Revenge of the Sith, Comtech and Sand trooper army Buider 4 Packs, The Target Clone Troopers and Coruscant Attack Multipack, And We've Got a Great Set of ARC Troopers from the Clone Wars Series comming Up. :)

Long Live the GAR!

Fritzkrieg


I highly doubt that greedy hoarders are the cause of the Army Builder multipacks that are, have been, and are coming out.
Title: Re: Army Building or Hoarding?
Post by: CHEWIE on March 27, 2006, 05:46 PM
I'd say that army-building is the prime reason of such multi-packs coming out... what other reason is there?  Maybe not because of the hoarders, but definitely because of army-builders.

Everyone should be able to get along in this thread, stop calling army-builder "hoarders" and nobody should call the people complaining "whiners" either. 

For what it's worth, I bought two more orange Clones today.  Opened them both and they are sitting on my monitor at work watching me type this.

 :P
Title: Re: Army Building or Hoarding?
Post by: Gatillo on March 27, 2006, 06:13 PM
Chewie that is not a good idea.  U clones are not to be trusted. :P
Title: Re: Army Building or Hoarding?
Post by: Jesse James on March 27, 2006, 07:40 PM
I wish all those things tied to army building were "good" though.  ;D

$15 Clone repaints, overpriced individual EE packs and the like are a plague...  In all honesty I look at the EE packs as something focused on the collecting mentality overall at first...  The intent that they get to army builders was negated by the packaging and price.  I see very few large SA Clone Wars Clone armies as a result...  Lower the price on individual sets, like the CT Stormtrooper and Sandtrooper sets were priced, and that's good army building IMO... 

I wish I'd been able to buy up the CW Clone sets at a good price but I had to settle...  A big bummer.   :-\
Title: Re: Army Building or Hoarding?
Post by: Dan on March 28, 2006, 05:03 PM
Another deterrent to army building is Hasbro's new love of dirt and wear on figures. That might be fine as a variant, but having a clean version first seems the way to go. I now have 3 UT clones, and look at them thinking I don't want any more because of the paint apps. It makes sense that there would be more than one clean trooper in any given diorama, but 95 guys all with the same "wear" and "damage"? It just doesn't look right.

GIVE US CLEAN STORMTROOPERS, SANDTROOPERS, CLONES, BATTLE DROIDS, BIKERSCOUTS AND SNOWTROOPERS.  And package them in paper bags with marker saying what they are, so they can be priced reasonably.
Title: Re: Army Building or Hoarding?
Post by: Clone Commander on March 28, 2006, 05:56 PM
I cant say I like the idea of a paper bag but I would love to see a clean utapau trooper.
But then again what are ya' gonna do?   ::)
I can live with the weathering.
Title: Re: Army Building or Hoarding?
Post by: darthmac on March 29, 2006, 03:28 PM
I do modest army building.  My largest collecting of the 'same' figure is the POTJ Rebel trooper which I got 9 in one ebay auction (I'm actually looking to catch & release 3 of these guys).  But beyond that I really don't have more than about 4 of the same figure, together they form a nice little army. 

Yes troopers look better displayed when in groups just a c3-po looks better when displayed next to r2-d2.  But having 90+ identical figures just sitting on a shelf is hording.  If your going to put together an army, at least display it in an interesting way.  If you want a picture of 100+ troopers lined up in an identical pose, use photoshop and save yourself several hundred dollars.  To me a good army buildling limit is 10, unless you have a specific display need the demands more.

I really think all this boiling anger over hoarding, army building and scapling right now comes from the fact that most of us can not find much of any figures, little lone the ones we are looking for.  I would say in my last 10 runs I have found only 1 store that had more then 1 figure.  Right now there is a major disconnect between hasbro and collector demand and this anger will only get worse until they find a way of letting collectors get the figures they want.  I also believe Hasbro is turning people off from buying their product if no one (collectors and kids) can ever get the figures they want - and that should be a concern to their stock holders.
Title: Re: Army Building or Hoarding?
Post by: Darth Slothus on March 29, 2006, 05:07 PM
Right now there is a major disconnect between hasbro and collector demand and this anger will only get worse until they find a way of letting collectors get the figures they want.  I also believe Hasbro is turning people off from buying their product if no one (collectors and kids) can ever get the figures they want - and that should be a concern to their stock holders.

I totally disagree with this. Hasbro must be making a good product to have demand so high as it is now. Unfortunately, Retailers are at fault for not meeting current demands/not Hasbro. Retailers unfortunately read into future demands this year to be low. While even I will admit I figured after the movie euphoria lowered that demand would go down and thus we would see less product this year. Unfortunately, there's a new market for Sw again(the last movie recruited alot of new/young buyers)=demand is through the roof. Please don't tell me BS about hasbro having/setting limits at retailers for shelf space either. This is a contract between both the retailer AND hasbro..not just Hasbro get s all the say. Hasbro is simply shipping out quantities to retailers wherehouses as per how much the retailer asks for. I don't think Hasbro's at fault here..if folks want to talk case assortments, now that's a bird of a different feather and I would go after Hasbro on that.

Hasbro obviously had alot on the table for 06' and arguably so considering the majority of their profit last year helped by SW toys. Sadly, in the end, when they presented their 2006 plan to retail, it was the retailers who said "yeah, that looks ok but, we only want this much of it in 2006" or something to that effect ::)(speculation:judging by how I've seen them handle the consumers demand). I look at just how much hasbro IS offering this year for SW then I look at how MUCH I see of it in the store or definately the frequency of it and that's why I hold the blame retailers position.

Well that's MY position on why we're screwed.   
Title: Re: Army Building or Hoarding?
Post by: darthmac on March 29, 2006, 05:37 PM
By disconnet I mean lots of us wanting to buy figures and store shelves being empty.  Somewhere between hasbro and us something is broken (be that the retailers or whoever).  Is there another retail item where the items fly off the shelves instantly then the stores are afraid to restock it?  I've taken a few economics courses in my time, and this just befuddles me.  I know nothing about Hasbro's strategy or so called limits.  But my guess is they want to sell as much product as possible.

As for the selection Hasbro is offering this year, I have been really happy, I would just like to find some of it.

I just can't understand why their own website does not allow backordering/pre-ordering of figures.  Their own store should be able to eliminate this supply disconnect, but instead they run it like any other retailer blindly ordering stock like it comes from some other company.

I do stand by my belief that if this supply problem continues that 'some' folks will begin to lose interest.
Title: Re: Army Building or Hoarding?
Post by: Nirvana on March 29, 2006, 05:48 PM
Well, good for that guy. I, personally, do not have the person funds, patience, and will to collect 90+ of a certain character. I don't really understand why some collectors and users of RS would attack the poor guy, calling him names, etc. instead on commending him on his most-likely hard work and I'm sure they all set him back a pretty penny. I haven't found one soldier at all yet, but I'm okay with that. I've accepted the fact that there's really not an abundance of figures and I don't have the time to constantly run back and forth to stores to search for figs.

Just my two cents, and I had no intention of putting anyone down or offending them.