Indiana Jones 4 - The Movie

[name]

The only ones I can name are Toht, Belloq, Elsa & Hitler. 

mola ram.

[Scott]

I just think movie toys in general have sucked major league ass the last 2-3 years (outside obviously Ep3).  For the most part all of the Super Hero stuff has majorly tanked (Spidey, Fantastic Four, Superman and Batman) there is Pirates stuff every where not selling, the Harry Potter toys for 3 and 4 were non existant based on poor sales for 3 and 4.  I think the days of the huge movie tie in mass roll outs are numbered.  I really can't see a huge line of Indy toys as much and as cool as we all hope there will be.

[Matt]

The only IJ3 stuff I recall was some Micro Machine items, I think. . .

I believe the MM toys were released in the early-/mid-nineties.  '93 or '94, maybe.  I was too cool to be into toys in '89--but I've kept up with the Indy stuff since then, and I don't remember ever seeing any Last Crusade-specific toys.

Still the Raiders line was up against G.I. Joe, the bain of Star Wars toys at the time. . .

All three were Kenner lines, right?  The Indy line started in '82, I think it was, right alongside the Joe launch, and right as Kenner was gearing up for Jedi, so no doubt Indy had an uphill battle from the beginning.  And that's just for peg-/shelf-space.  Not even considering that it, as has been mentioned, wasn't as toy-friendly a license as SW (or Joe).

. . .so I think Indy just appealed to the older audience then more than a film like Star Wars, and subsequently kids didn't support it much.  Flash forward to now though, and kids obviously are important but at the same time entire lines of toys thrive off adults too...  I think as much as there's that "kid" push going on, I think the rationale is that they know adults are going to go ape**** for IJ stuff, and that adults can sustain the basis for a marketing blitz while they hope kids will just jump in and jump out like usual.

But if yesterday's kids weren't into Indy, why would today's adults be?

[Matt]

I really can't see a huge line of Indy toys as much and as cool as we all hope there will be.

As long as we get a 3 3/4", well-articulated, nicely-accessoried Indy, I don't give a **** what happens with the rest of the toys.  I mean, I hope they're good, don't get me wrong, but I just want a really nice Indy, that's all.  Everything else will be gravy.

[Scott]

I really can't see a huge line of Indy toys as much and as cool as we all hope there will be.

As long as we get a 3 3/4", well-articulated, nicely-accessoried Indy, I don't give a **** what happens with the rest of the toys.  I mean, I hope they're good, don't get me wrong, but I just want a really nice Indy, that's all.  Everything else will be gravy.

Agreed...and I'd love Indy Variants and Major characters from the original 3 but I'd be happy with a SA Classic Indy

[evenflow]

There was a terrible line that came out in Spain i believe for Indy 3. It was just a bunch of different Indy's, but i believe the cards said last crusade.

[Brian]

I agree with what Matt and Scott have mentioned, if we got a really nicely done, SA Indy figure - in 3 3/4" scale - I'd be a pretty happy camper.  If we get other characters from all four movies, that's great too, and I'm excited that Hasbro's doing a line - but Indy alone would be great.

I was kind of surprised when I heard there was going to be an IJ line as well, since I don't remember seeing much in the past.  I thought there was an outside chance of some sort of "exclusive" Indy figure, basically sold under the SW line or something (SWShop exclusive or something).  Jesse brings up a good point though about this being such a collector's market anymore.  There are a lot of lines out there now that are basically just supported by collectors, despite what toy companies want to say.  Sure, things like the Spidey, Pirates, and most movie lines are primarily kiddos with some collectors, but there's a lot of "collector-only" lines out there now too.  Anyways, that's been talked about to death already, but the collector does make up a good part of the market these days.

I'm really looking forward to the potential Indy line though, but I hope its done to its potential - and in the 3 3/4" scale.  I'm thinking VTSC quality figures and a nice, well-rounded line.  Hasbro sees the connection with Star Wars (and Star Wars fans), so hopefully they don't pull some 5" scale, action-feature laden crap with the line - but I wouldn't put it past that either.

[Jeff]

Still the Raiders line was up against G.I. Joe, the bain of Star Wars toys at the time. . .

All three were Kenner lines, right? 

Technically, GI Joe was Hasbro in the 80s and they hadn't mergered with Kenner yet at that point.  In 1984, Hasbro bought Milton Bradley and Playskool to become the largest Toy Company in the USA.  They didn't buy Kenner until 1991 when they acquired Tonka who was holding the Kenner brand.

But if yesterday's kids weren't into Indy, why would today's adults be?

I think the biggest reason that the Indy toys did not sell well was Kenner's usual production delay.  Similar to when they got a late start on SW stuff, the Indy toys did not hit stores until '82-83, even though Raiders came out in '81. 

You can find a lot of history of the original Indy line at the Official Indy site.  It was an interesting article then and it still holds well today.  Lots of history and reasons why the first Indy line tanked with kids compared to the SW Stuff.  And, just to add some fuel for the debate, it's interesting to see what LFL had to say about indy toys just over a year ago...

"Roffman suggests that should another Indy film be released, a new toy line would definitely be considered. "I'm not sure it would necessarily be 3.75" action figures, but something that's more in line with what we've done with [Star Wars] Unleashed -- a larger scale, more detailed action figure."

[Morgbug]

"Roffman suggests that should another Indy film be released, a new toy line would definitely be considered. "I'm not sure it would necessarily be 3.75" action figures, but something that's more in line with what we've done with [Star Wars] Unleashed -- a larger scale, more detailed action figure."

Well boo on that.  The Unleashed line (wait, the big unleashed or the little unleashed?) is nice enough, but it's really not what I'd like to see.  I think I'd buy and be ok with a single classic ROTLA Indy in 8" scale with whip but I'd really, really much prefer a 3.75" line that could go for several waves.  Hopefully if they did the line, they'd be sharp enough to mix in the OT figures right away into assortments.  I'd be fearful that the IJ4 toys didn't sell initially too well, probably because of inundation of the market with a limited number of characters, and subsequent waves would be cancelled   Mixing ROTLA and other original figures in right from the start would probably have the converse effect of creating demand for figures from IJ4 that were yet to be released. 

Hasbro sees the connection with Star Wars (and Star Wars fans), so hopefully they don't pull some 5" scale, action-feature laden crap with the line - but I wouldn't put it past that either.

Despite my continuing mantra in the ML thread, I'd not be bothered by a 5" scale here, as long as that's the scale they stuck with.  It's definitely not my preferred scale as I think your point about the association with Star Wars figures should, should be obvious but I'd not be shocked to see them screw it up.  Perhaps it's unfair to think that way, so I'll try and remain cautiously optimistic while being cynically realistic too. 

I just think movie toys in general have sucked major league ass the last 2-3 years (outside obviously Ep3).  For the most part all of the Super Hero stuff has majorly tanked (Spidey, Fantastic Four, Superman and Batman) there is Pirates stuff every where not selling, the Harry Potter toys for 3 and 4 were non existant based on poor sales for 3 and 4.  I think the days of the huge movie tie in mass roll outs are numbered.  I really can't see a huge line of Indy toys as much and as cool as we all hope there will be.

I agree and hope you're right about the mass roll outs being scarce going forward.  I wonder though if Transformers won't meddle with the fairly obvious trend of crappy sales, reinstigating some belief that the toys sell.  Up here Transformers are selling ok, not great, but Canada isn't really the market that matters anyway. 

[Matt]

Technically, GI Joe was Hasbro in the 80s and they hadn't mergered with Kenner yet at that point.  In 1984, Hasbro bought Milton Bradley and Playskool to become the largest Toy Company in the USA.  They didn't buy Kenner until 1991 when they acquired Tonka who was holding the Kenner brand.

Ah.  Thanks.  I was never into Joes at all, and I'd always just assumed that it was a Kenner product all along.

I think the biggest reason that the Indy toys did not sell well was Kenner's usual production delay.  Similar to when they got a late start on SW stuff, the Indy toys did not hit stores until '82-83, even though Raiders came out in '81.

I don't know--that delay didn't seem to hurt Star Wars at all.  I think there's a different reason, mentioned in that article (thanks for that, by the way--good read):

What may not have been fully understood at the time, however, was that Indiana Jones was a different property than Star Wars, one that didn't possess the same inherent play values unique to the Star Wars line. When the Indiana Jones toys were finally released, they received a lukewarm response from consumers.

"I don't think it was aspirational for kids," continues Roffman. "There are tons of movies that have conflicts between good guys and bad guys -- it's the essence of the action genre -- but 99% of them don't translate at all to toys because they don't have that inspirational quality. They don't fire the imagination and create a situation, for boys in particular, who are interested in playing out that conflict."

Back to Jeff:

And, just to add some fuel for the debate, it's interesting to see what LFL had to say about indy toys just over a year ago...

"Roffman suggests that should another Indy film be released, a new toy line would definitely be considered. "I'm not sure it would necessarily be 3.75" action figures, but something that's more in line with what we've done with [Star Wars] Unleashed -- a larger scale, more detailed action figure."

I can see them doing an Unleashed-type line for Indy, but I still think they'd be crazy to ignore the 3 3/4" scale, given the success they've had with that scale for Star Wars, and how closely the two properties are intertwined. . .

[Brian]

Quote from: OCB on July  5, 2007, 10:46 PM
I just think movie toys in general have sucked major league ass the last 2-3 years (outside obviously Ep3).  For the most part all of the Super Hero stuff has majorly tanked (Spidey, Fantastic Four, Superman and Batman) there is Pirates stuff every where not selling, the Harry Potter toys for 3 and 4 were non existant based on poor sales for 3 and 4.  I think the days of the huge movie tie in mass roll outs are numbered.  I really can't see a huge line of Indy toys as much and as cool as we all hope there will be.

Quote from: Morgbug on July 5, 2007, 9:38 AM
I agree and hope you're right about the mass roll outs being scarce going forward.  I wonder though if Transformers won't meddle with the fairly obvious trend of crappy sales, reinstigating some belief that the toys sell.  Up here Transformers are selling ok, not great, but Canada isn't really the market that matters anyway. 

I'm with you guys.  I'd like to see the big movie roll outs chill a little bit too.  I can't say I've never bought movie product outside of Star Wars, but I'd say the lines are few and far between that have had much/any success aside from Star Wars.  I've seen lots of product on the pegs for all of the Marvel movie lines (ToyBiz and Hasbro), a ton of Superman Return stuff that I could still find, and - to a lesser extent - the Batman Begins stuff (that line seemed a little more restrained in its release around here).  Like Scott mentioned, there is Pirates stuff everywhere here too.  It seemed to sell pretty well last summer, but this year it doesn't seem to be the same story.  I can see still having movie product out there, but a more restrained lineup would be welcome.  Its been discussed in the Marvel thread, but I think having a "Legends" type wave of figures for the Marvel movies would work out well.  Sure, have some webshooters and role play type stuff for the kiddos, but I don't know that we necessarily need entire aisles or half aisles dedicated to movie lines anymore.  Star Wars was really the only one that could support that very well it seems.  I will second the notion that Transformers does seem to be picking up here now that the movie is out, and could be one that will see some decent success as well.  But, then again, the movie is based on the toyline in the first place, so they should go hand in hand.

I think an Indy line could do ok, but it would have to be more restrained too.  A small section in the store would be good enough, with a few assortments of figures from all of the movies.  I can see some role play items or something too for the kiddos (although I'd be interested in how they make a "safe" bullwhip ), but I cringe at the thought of bump 'n' go Indy.  Otherwise, no matter what the movie line, it seems to eventually sit and get clearanced.  Star Wars is most often the exception, at least looking at ROTS (the previous two movies not so much), as they seemed to steadily sell in 2005 no matter how many figures were on the pegs (with a few pegwarming exceptions).  I was surprised how often I would see piles of figures thinking "these will be here forever" only to see them slowly sell through.  It even continues to some extent in non-movie years (this year's TAC in particular), although the later TSC figures really seem to sit here.  I don't know if anyone is buying those now, outside of clones.

[CHEWIE]

Given what Hasbro did with the Spiderman license and Transformers this year, I wouldn't be at all surprised if they supplement the line with characters from the original films too.  It would probably be a good idea.  I wonder how many figures they really could make?  Probably anywhere from 5-10 figures from each film?  Or even more?

- Indy (several outfits)
- Dr. Jones Sr.
- Sallah (Raiders, TLC)
- Brody (Raiders, TLC)
- Marian
- Wily
- Elsa
- Belloch
- Donovan
- Toht
- Holy Grail Knight
- Cairo swordsman
- Cairo spy w/ monkey
- Nazi muscle man
- Pankot Palace Minister
- Pankot Palace army builders
- Nazi army builders
- Arab army builders
- etc.

Heck, I guess there is quite a bit they actually could do.

I'd probably get just about any figure that they actually did make, as long as it's 3-3/4" scale and is Star Wars-esque in terms of quality.

 

[name]

The only ones I can name are Toht, Belloq, Elsa & Hitler. 

mola ram.

Given what Hasbro did with the Spiderman license and Transformers this year, I wouldn't be at all surprised if they supplement the line with characters from the original films too.  It would probably be a good idea.  I wonder how many figures they really could make?  Probably anywhere from 5-10 figures from each film?  Or even more?

- Indy (several outfits)
- Dr. Jones Sr.
- Sallah (Raiders, TLC)
- Brody (Raiders, TLC)
- Marian
- Wily
- Elsa
- Belloch
- Donovan
- Toht
- Holy Grail Knight
- Cairo swordsman
- Cairo spy w/ monkey
- Nazi muscle man
- Pankot Palace Minister
- Pankot Palace army builders
- Nazi army builders
- Arab army builders
- etc.

Heck, I guess there is quite a bit they actually could do.

I'd probably get just about any figure that they actually did make, as long as it's 3-3/4" scale and is Star Wars-esque in terms of quality.

 

WTF?  How come Mola Ram get's NO love....You DARE NOT ignore THE MOLA!

[Matt]

WTF?  How come Mola Ram get's NO love....You DARE NOT ignore THE MOLA!

No ******* doubt.  He's easily the most visually-appealing villian in the entire series, and would certainly make for a more-interesting action figure than a couple of middle-aged white guys.

[CHEWIE]

I never knew the guy's name until this thread.  I thought all you wanted was an Indy anyway.

I'd buy Mola Ram though.  He does look awesome.  He could even come with a few hearts and "magic rocks."