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Multimedia => The Original Trilogy => Topic started by: Hemish on October 13, 2005, 11:13 AM

Title: He died the same time as your father.
Post by: Hemish on October 13, 2005, 11:13 AM
I was watching starwars again tonight with my kids , and for some reason i cant really put my finger on it , but that line from Uncle Owen just didnt seem right.
He knew that Obiwan was still alive, he would have know that as far as Obiwan knew that Anakin was dead. Makes me wonder if anything happened between the two of them between eps 3 an 4.
Obiwan telling Luke , your father wanted you to have this but your uncle wouldnt allow it.
Thats the other one that now bugs the crap outta me.
Old ObiWan could sure tell some good fibs, from his point of view.
Title: Re: He died the same time as your father.
Post by: Diddly on October 13, 2005, 06:24 PM
There was an EXTREMELY ****** EU explaination for this. Be prepared to go chest deep into crap!

In some comic, Luke is about 1-2 years old. It's a quiet morning on Tatooine. Suddenly, as Beru is picking mushrooms off the vaporators, Darth Maul, with a robotic lower half attacks them. Yes, you read that right. DARTH MAUL WITH A ROBOTIC LOWER HALF. He was sent to kill Luke, I think.

So Obi-Wan appears (already looking like Alec Guiness, even though this is supposed to be 1-2 years after ROTS), and after a while, defeats the robotic Maul. Owen yells at Obi-Wan about the whole Maul thing being entirely his fault, and tells him to stay away from Luke forever.

So yeah, pretty crappy explaination there. Hopefully this helps some.
Title: Re: He died the same time as your father.
Post by: Jesse James on October 14, 2005, 12:31 AM
So mind-numbingly-stupid EU stories aside (I'd not read, but knew of the robotic Maul, but holy christ that's one of the worst plot lines I've ever heard for SW EU), I've pretty much been under the assumption that Owen knew a lot more about everything in the galaxy than the average Joe Schmoe would have...  Perfect place to hide Luke then since he's a backwater kid with backwater adoptive planets on a backwater planet...  but Owen's just more in-the-know than one assumes.

Kinda like how Tarkin has that connection to Vader that nobody else but Palpatine seemed to share with him (on-screen anyway), so it was like you could just tell Tarkin knows more about the past than the average guy does.

Anyways...

I figure Obi-Wan and Owen did have some disagreements.  He perhaps (likely?) knew Obi-Wan was staying by to groom Luke to the "new hope" but knew of his step-brother's collapse, figured the same fate would follow Luke...  I'm sure he did everything possible to keep Luke from Obi-Wan, and Obi-Wan kept his distance most likely till he knew it was the right time.  Obi-Wan lies but Owen certainly did too, but everyone seems to lie to Luke for his own good...  Given what they're working with and what his father turned out to be, it's not surprising that they didn't want to tell him everything...  I'm sure they felt like they were playing with fire as far as Luke was concerned since things went so great with Anakin and all. :)
Title: Re: He died the same time as your father.
Post by: Nathan on October 14, 2005, 01:26 AM
EU Defender riding to the rescue.... (http://cheesebuerger.de/images/smilie/sportlich/g020.gif)

That story was in "Visionaries", a collection of short comics stories that, as the title suggests, don't all necessarily fit into continuity--much like the now-defunct Tales. Some, like the Kashyyyk story immediately predating the invasion of Kashyyyk, seem to fit well enough, but others like the Maul story ... well, not so much. I believe the Maul story (which was reasonably entertaining if you throw canon out the window) was supposed to be more an exploration of a "what-if" scenario, because even in the EU they'd never bring back a robo-Maul for "real".

(http://cheesebuerger.de/images/smilie/sportlich/a070.gif)
Title: Re: He died the same time as your father.
Post by: Ben on October 14, 2005, 02:17 AM
I think I read in the ANH novelization that Obi-Wan comes by every so often attempting to give Luke his father's lightsaber, and Owen shoos him away, trying to keep Luke on the farm, away from the truth. But it's been a good ten years since I've read it, so I'm not sure.

A little off-topic, but the thing that always bugged me about the OT was the "point of view" thing Obi-Wan was blabbering about in ROTJ. I just don't know why he didn't say "yes, I lied, but if you knew Vader was your father then, you would have followed his same path" or something. That point-of-view speech just seems like a cop-out on Lucas' part to me.
Title: Re: He died the same time as your father.
Post by: Jesse James on October 14, 2005, 02:59 AM
What I did like about the POV speech though, is that to Obi-Wan I've always envisioned him as never having any inkling of hope or feeling (through the force or whatnot) that Anakin was anything but Vader...  He looked at Anakin as dead, and really I think emotion actually clouded Obi-Wan (it's fun to look at the heroes as flawed characters like that I think).  Luke could feel it...  And maybe it's that emotional attachment Luke has that actually empowers him to the point that he can see good in Vader/Anakin whereas Obi-Wan's emotional tie to Anakin blinds him to any possibility of Anakin being able to be found or saved.

To Obi, he's dead and the thing that is Vader isn't even the same person...  To Luke, he's so tied to Vader that he actually can feel something about him Obi-Wan can't...  So to that end the "certain POV" didn't bother me.  It's Obi-Wan defending himself is all, but conceding to Luke's feelings somewhat now that he sees Luke maybe is onto something.
Title: Re: He died the same time as your father.
Post by: blaster_e11 on October 14, 2005, 03:51 AM
there are scholastic books about obiwan's early days on tatooine, not the best source of information but u may find something in those
Title: Re: He died the same time as your father.
Post by: Nathan on October 14, 2005, 11:21 AM
There are also a handful of older comics (mostly in Tales and various "anthologies") dealing with Obi-Wan meeting young Lukie and getting run off by Owen.
Title: Re: He died the same time as your father.
Post by: Angry Ewok on October 14, 2005, 05:52 PM
I've always looked at it like this, Obi-Wan Kenobi did die at about the same time as Anakin Skywalker. Losing Anakin to the Dark Side was a terrible thing, I'm sure a major part of Obi-Wan's spirit died with Anakin... certainly when news came about that the Jedi were all but whiped out...

Just the look on Obi-Wan's face at the end of ROTS tells me that he's just tired of the constant warring - I think he found it easier to run away from everything than perhaps Yoda did.

So I say, from a certain point of view, Obi-Wan died, along with his brother, and friend, Anakin.

Title: Re: He died the same time as your father.
Post by: Reid on October 16, 2005, 10:37 AM
I have a very simple explanation: Owen just didn't want Luke to know about Obi. Easy as that. And I have read the Visionaries Graphic Novel and I thought ressurecting Maul a second time was a bit too much. What next, Maul gets reborn on Kashykkk by a Lando clone, Laando, peeing on him?
Title: Re: He died the same time as your father.
Post by: Mister Skeezler on October 18, 2005, 05:09 PM
I have a very simple explanation: Owen just didn't want Luke to know about Obi. Easy as that. And I have read the Visionaries Graphic Novel and I thought ressurecting Maul a second time was a bit too much. What next, Maul gets reborn on Kashykkk by a Lando clone, Laando, peeing on him?

Incidently, Lando was originally supposed to be a clone leftover from the Clone Wars, and Leia didn't trust him because of it. Wieeeerrrrrrd.
Title: Re: He died the same time as your father.
Post by: P-Siddy on October 31, 2005, 09:06 AM
I've always looked at it like this, Obi-Wan Kenobi did die at about the same time as Anakin Skywalker. Losing Anakin to the Dark Side was a terrible thing, I'm sure a major part of Obi-Wan's spirit died with Anakin... certainly when news came about that the Jedi were all but whiped out...

Just the look on Obi-Wan's face at the end of ROTS tells me that he's just tired of the constant warring - I think he found it easier to run away from everything than perhaps Yoda did.

So I say, from a certain point of view, Obi-Wan died, along with his brother, and friend, Anakin.



I agree with this view of it... Obi-wan did "die" and became "Ben" Kenobi the Hermit.
Title: Re: He died the same time as your father.
Post by: Ginanalbri on November 28, 2005, 08:49 PM
Obi-wan did not die he was still a jedi master. he had to change his name for protection.
Title: Re: He died the same time as your father.
Post by: Gatillo on November 28, 2005, 10:37 PM
True true Obi-Wan Kenobi and Ben Kenobi are really different.  I guess Kenobi is like Smith. :-\
Title: Re: He died the same time as your father.
Post by: Jesse James on November 28, 2005, 11:09 PM
That's an interesting way to look at it...  I'd agree with it too that Obi-Wan's "dead" in that "certain point of view" way he liked so much.  He probably got a kcik out of doing nothing for so long.

Dead not in the literal sense, but dead in most everyone's eyes (even Vader's perhaps, though I'm sure his mind probably didn't allow him to assume Obi was dead without seeing proof).  Tarkin certainly believed Kenobi dead...  I think about the only people who didn't think Obi was dead were the Lars', Vader, and perhaps Palpatine.
Title: Re: He died the same time as your father.
Post by: Tracy on November 29, 2005, 06:29 AM
I think about the only people who didn't think Obi was dead were the Lars', Vader, and perhaps Palpatine.

And, of course, the Organas & Yoda. :)
Title: Re: He died the same time as your father.
Post by: Jesse James on November 29, 2005, 06:47 AM
D'oh yeah, that's true...  Well Bail would have known and told Leia I guess...  Yoda knew.  Hell he maybe was even having some kind of interaction with Obi if Obi was interacting with QGJ through the force and Yoda was doing likewise.  Hmmm, there's a thought.

But yeah then that's it I guess? :)  Or I'm probably forgetting someone else...  Kenobi probably had a freaking autograph signing in Mos Eisley and everyone knew who he was.
Title: Re: He died the same time as your father.
Post by: Tracy on November 29, 2005, 07:44 AM
D'oh yeah, that's true...  Well Bail would have known and told Leia I guess... 

Didn't he tell Leia to seek out Obi-Wan if she were ever in trouble?  Can't remember  -- its been a while since I read the novelization.  But she was trying to get to Tatooine to appeal to him to help the Rebellion.  She knew he was a General in the Clone Wars so I would assume Bail filled her in? :-\

Kenobi probably had a freaking autograph signing in Mos Eisley and everyone knew who he was.

What do you think he'd charge? :P
Title: Re: He died the same time as your father.
Post by: Jesse James on November 29, 2005, 07:58 AM
I don't know but somehow I imagine a certain site having to get their greedy fingers in on it.   :-X :-*

Yeah though Leia was on the hunt for Gen. Kenobi so I assumed she was in on Obi-Wan's existance...  Dunno about Bail's wife but probably her too if she was still alive.  She'd probably wonder where the hell that kid came from and all that so I just imagine her knowing too...

It's kind of sad but Padme's own parents wouldn't know the children were born and stuff.  Their grandkids they'd never know.  That's sort of ******, actually.
Title: Re: He died the same time as your father.
Post by: Tracy on November 29, 2005, 08:06 AM
It's kind of sad but Padme's own parents wouldn't know the children were born and stuff.  Their grandkids they'd never know.  That's sort of ******, actually.

I've often thought about that too.  What in the world did they think when Padme's "pregnant" body showed up in Naboo for the funeral?  Did they automatically assume it was Anakin's child?  From the deleted scenes in AOTC it was pretty obvious to her family that there was a romance there.  I've always been curious about that.
Title: Re: He died the same time as your father.
Post by: Ryan on December 2, 2005, 03:02 AM
Yoda knew.  Hell he maybe was even having some kind of interaction with Obi if Obi was interacting with QGJ through the force and Yoda was doing likewise.  Hmmm, there's a thought.


Like a netherworld conference call? ;)
Title: Re: He died the same time as your father.
Post by: Jesse James on December 2, 2005, 03:40 AM
Heh, yeah something like that...  Come to think of it I wonder if QGJ could have communed with Yoda and Obi at the same time? 

I picture some other Jedi in the background doing the "wazzzuuuppp!" or something.
Title: Re: He died the same time as your father.
Post by: Tracy on December 2, 2005, 06:36 AM
Or perhaps QGJ going "Can you hear me now?" ;D
Title: Re: He died the same time as your father.
Post by: TheBlackDog65 on December 3, 2005, 01:13 PM
Pretty good one Tamidala!
Anyway, on the dead thing, if you look at it like I am married now so my single part of my life is dead, or I've transitioned from college to working so my college days are now dead, I think it makes sense for Obi to be dead. Its a metaphor, dead meaning not phyical but a period of ones life. Obi's days of the old Jedi Order are dead and gone, as it that world and galaxy.  Now there is a new order and a new world and Obi has assumed a new role in the new order. 
Title: Re: He died the same time as your father.
Post by: Darth Slothus on December 8, 2005, 02:47 PM
R2d2 knew him...if you can count a droid. One slight loophole that I feel Lucas never cleaned when merging the prequels and OT. I always wondered why ..with all the negativity (not carrying the faith that annakin did) about R2 out of Obi's mouth(ROTS) that r2 never resented him. Yeah, yeah..he's just a droid but how many other times in the movies did the scipt write for droid emotions? C3PO should have known Obi too. I don't believe he had his circuits wiped. If so then how could he possibly know about the CW but not say it because he's not a story teller?(ANH)

How 'Bout this-  And.. I don't think it's a figure of speech- Obi referring to r2 as a "friend" then turning around and saying he doesn't recall owning a droid?(ANH)
R4 in fact- how did he forget that helmet getting ripped off his droid by the buzz droids?(owned for quite a time period- appeared in 2 movies) Surely he knew of his Padawan's droid name. Wasn't he in the room when Q. Amidala said to commend him for saving the ship?(TPM) I feel Lucas dropped the ball linking the droids here in these examples otherwise we could add these 2 in for who knew Obi Won.


Palpatine hated obi won sooo much that he HAD to know he was still out there alive- he talks about how much he hates the "lucky to be alive" OBI Wan in the Labrynth of evil book. You have to admit he always seems to get some kind of lucky break. Even vs Vader the 2nd time he gave his life. Didn't lose it
Seemed like the only thing he EVER lost was his first Padawan.
Title: Re: He died the same time as your father.
Post by: Gatillo on December 8, 2005, 03:31 PM
 ???
Title: Re: He died the same time as your father.
Post by: jedipurge on December 8, 2005, 04:17 PM
i think the line was more of: just drop the subject luke, and doesn't really have that much signifcence.
Title: Re: He died the same time as your father.
Post by: Darth Slothus on December 8, 2005, 04:36 PM
No, he couldn't have said that-it doesn't fit in the script. We by now know that luke is this wimpy, whiney inquisitive lil' **** that asks alot of questions. The audience wouldn't buy what they know about Luke's character to this point that he would just be quiet and "drop the subject" about his dad or the clone wars with a statement like that from OW. I wish it were that easy. The fact is that it makes for good story in another movie's script-Lucas is the master here...not so much in directing(see the acting in prequels) but definately a story teller.
Title: Re: He died the same time as your father.
Post by: jedipurge on December 12, 2005, 03:15 PM
i suppose you're right slothus but i just don't understand while they're on the subject of old obi-wan why does Owen even bring up the subject of luke's dad, there by basically bringing up more questions and curiosity in luke about this general kenobi and his relationship to his dad.  something i'm sure owen try's not to talk about.