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Multimedia => Star Wars Universe => Topic started by: MetalJedi on May 31, 2003, 01:57 AM

Title: Why do so many hate the Expanded Universe?
Post by: MetalJedi on May 31, 2003, 01:57 AM
And just saying it sucks or it's not on screen isn't an answer.  I want a legit answer.

Title: Re: Why do so many hate the Expanded Universe?
Post by: dustrho on May 31, 2003, 02:08 AM
I don't hate EU at all.  I think it's great, and I hope it just gets better and better after EP3 is over with.  I don't want the stories involving Star Wars to ever end.  Something that would be cool is if they make animated movies out of some of the books, something similar to the end product of "Titan A.E." and "Final Fantasy: Spirits Within."  Now THAT would be cool as hell!
Title: Re: Why do so many hate the Expanded Universe?
Post by: MetalJedi on June 3, 2003, 01:57 AM
I would love those as well. I think thats something that they should seriously think about since the last "film" is EP3.
Title: Re: Why do so many hate the Expanded Universe?
Post by: hansloroll on June 5, 2003, 02:02 AM
Most people have no sense of imagination and as such cannot envision something unquantifiable.They feel if it isn't a film or such then it doesn't count.I have read all but the newest book and completely enjoying them.I have reread a few of them in an effort to refresh my recollections of them as they are all getting older by the day.My favorite is probably the "Tales from the Mos Eisley Cantina"I don't care that it is not canon.I don't feel that the new stuff is canon so we're even.
Title: Re: Why do so many hate the Expanded Universe?
Post by: Jesse James on June 5, 2003, 10:26 PM
I'm not an EU basher, but more an EU critic...  Of course, some just diss EU based on it not being part of the movies, and that's fine (I can understand movie purists).

I'm borderline a movie purist, but only because the movies are the only "canon" and the rest is up to the fan to decide...  

That to me leaves EU open to greater criticism, but it also leaves it open to being more fun.  In Star Trek you don't pick and choose...  It's all "Canon" and there's no debate on that.  So if something crops up you totally dislike, then you're kind of SOL about having an imagination that differs from it.
 
I personally think though, that the SW EU has more bad than good generally...  And I think it's that lopsided quality that has turned some off to EU 100%.  For every Thrawn Trilogy there's 2 Dark Empire's...  Literally (haha, my lil joke).

What's quality is quality though...  To me, the Zahn trilogy are as close to the movies in terms of "quality" as they can be, without being canon.  The thing is though, that then you have umpteen other little things that aren't so great...

Then there's some things that the opinions are split on 50/50 too...  Things like the NJO series where half the people love them, and the other half hate them.  I for one like parts of them, but I hate certain MAJOR parts of them too (The Yuzahn Vong for instance).  At the same time though, I find the resurgeance of the Jedi Academy under Luke as exactly how I'd imagined it.  

I've found that a lot of the EU I like are the smaller things, like snippits and characters from the 2 SW RPG's, or details from particular stories as opposed to the stories themselves...

Another biggie EU thing I love are the games.  I've found FEW games that I felt were EU "crap".  Storylines in games like Force Commander, Katarn's story (Dark Forces/JK), X-Wing/TIE Fighter sims, Rogue Squadron, etc., are all great storylines which fit flawlessly, or fit with a little creative thought (Or abstract thinking at times).  

I find EU's biggest flaws though, are too often they try to tie everything together...  Not in continuity, but in specific characters.  It's something I hate about the Prequals too.  Greedo's not necessary fighting Anakin at the tender age of 8, and IG-88 didn't need to upload himself into the DSII's computer core.

Other areas of EU that I find disturbing are the "Super weapon of the week club" mentality...  Something Thrawn avoided with his trilogy by making an interesting villain.  A tactical genius over a super weapon.  

NJO got away from the super weapon, but they came up with a super villain that is too close to other sci-fi villains (Namely star trek) to suit me.  Like I said, NJO has some nice details to it, but the Vong are too major a plot point for me to get into the series.  I know the gist of it, I just don't care for it anymore.  

I felt the EU took some wrong turns at one point though, and it makes post ROTJ era reading a bit tough for me.  Unfortunately, in the EU deluge of the '90's, it solidified EU as what it is...  There's room for "new" things to be thrown in though, so I always look forward to some of that.  For instance the Jedi Outcast/Jedi Academy (And Mysteries of the Sith) plotlines take place in the NJO-ish era or just prior, but they don't deal with the specifics of the novels.  The only thing they've actually covered is some minor Jedi training on Yavin IV, and Kyle/Mara's crossover stories.

EU's great though, because if you don't like something you can simply ignore it and go with what you WANT to go with.  It's there, but it's not canon.

Freedom of the reader/viewer's imagination is what makes Star Wars EU great, more so than any story could.
Title: Re: Why do so many hate the Expanded Universe?
Post by: MetalJedi on June 6, 2003, 03:52 AM
Well for the people who are "movie purists" I wanna know something.

Do you think that nothing happened between A New Hope ESB and ROTJ?? At the end of ROTJ, Luke and the gang just packed up and went home and that was that??

I guess Im just open to certain things than most. But I have enjoyed 99.9% of the EU. Im just sorry everyone can't find the enjoyment instead of being so critical of it.

Regards,
MJ
Title: Re: Why do so many hate the Expanded Universe?
Post by: Reconsgt on June 6, 2003, 02:41 PM
I am a fan of EU for a few reasons. First I like the core movie characters and I like to see there roles and adventures expanded on through the EU. Second the SW galaxy is supposed to be huge and we saw so little of it in the movies. I don't agree with all the storylines or like all the books but I would take those over nothing at all.

 I will admit at first I wasn't a big fan. I was a movie purist so to speak. The main reason I didn't like it was that I never gave it a chance. Once I read a few books I changed my opinion. Now I give it all a chance.
Title: Re: Why do so many hate the Expanded Universe?
Post by: Jesse James on June 6, 2003, 03:17 PM
Quote
Do you think that nothing happened between A New Hope ESB and ROTJ?? At the end of ROTJ, Luke and the gang just packed up and went home and that was that??

Well MJ, I'm not sure they don't believe anything happened between films, or after ROTJ, or before ANH and whatnot...  I think Movie Purists either simply follow only GL's telling of the story since he's the creator (There's people in the Star Trek world who are the same, and feel none of Trek after Roddenberry's death is "legit"), or the Movie Purists feel the EU they've read is pure crap.

Like I said, I'm not a movie purist, but it is all that's canon so it's all I accept as "canon" for Star Wars...  The rest I pick and choose, and I'm REALLY picky about what EU I like...  Some I feel is totally hack writing, with little to no imagination.  Essentially I feel that I personally could've made a more creative story, character(s), setting, etc...  

I would suppose those are the two ways "movie purists" think though.  Some find it poor writing/general quality, and others just don't think anything other than Lucas is "true Star Wars" as I've heard it called.  

Now in my little Star Wars world, there's some great stories I accept as 100% Star Wars, like Force Commander's story (Which is a good one), or the open-ended story of X-Wing: Alliance...  Kyle Katarn's story is another I really enjoy, and the Zahn Trilogy as well.  The thing is though, like I said, for every good story there are 2 or 3 HORRIBLE stories, and a few that are questionable.

That doesn't bode well for EU support I suppose.
Title: Re: Why do so many hate the Expanded Universe?
Post by: Sith Bounty Hunter on June 16, 2003, 11:45 AM
It's all right, it's really not something I am into. I read a few books about it and it was pretty cool. I really don't know where to find the comics, then again I don't look that hard.
Title: Re: Why do so many hate the Expanded Universe?
Post by: Darth Wysh on June 26, 2003, 10:05 AM
I love EU i read the books comics and everythingits pretty darn cool
Title: Re: Why do so many hate the Expanded Universe?
Post by: Scott on June 26, 2003, 10:14 AM
MY number one gripe...

Everything I've ever read has to be related and interconnected

For example a name of a bar on Coruscant may be

The Crusted Tauntaun

Now, Hoth is like living in the Sahara and you really think even one person on Coruscant would know what in the hell a Tauntaun is?

It is little things like that that bug me.  Other completely stupid things like Boba Fett surviving the Sarlacc and then being the best man at Dengars wedding is idiotic beyond comprehension

I did very much enjoy the Zahn Trilogy and most of the Tales from books but that is about it, the whole new arc and to a lesser degree the Clone Wars and everything else really does nothing for me
Title: Re: Why do so many hate the Expanded Universe?
Post by: Jango Fettish on June 26, 2003, 10:20 AM
To be honest, the only E.U. I like is Open Seasons. It ties in well with Bounty Hunter and makes Jango Fett's life story complete. Not to mention tastefully done.

I don't care for alot of E.U. because they tnd to exploit characters.

Case in point, Dengar, in E.U. lore was made out to be a caring person with feelings.

That contradicts his description on the back of his Evolution card, both backstories being E.U. Evolution writers say he was saved and when he was rebuilt, he was made into a emotionless killing machine.

So, whos right here between two E.U. writers that conjured up a backstory?

Also, in more recent E.U., Zam Wesell was depicted as yet another one of those "caring" bounty hunters, she infact was named as the one who taught Boba Fett how to read? COME ON! She's a BOUNTY HUNTER NOT A SCHOOL TEACHER! Theres not supposed to be any honor amongst thieves.

Jango Fett had such a reputation that he could sub contract someone to do his dirty work, or they would die, as was the case with Zam.

Honestly, with the ESB bounty hunters, do you think they showed any kind of affiliation, even amongst themselves? Nope.

My god, and last but not least. Need I even mention Boba Fett?

According to E.U., Boba Fett miraculousy blasted out of the Sarlacc, even after he was knocked unconscious on a sail barge, dropped lifelessly into a beast pit. Not only that, but he couldn't breathe, he had no food or water source, he was slowly being digested by stomach acid, and I'd imagine that his jetpack was ruined as well?

It's just that E.U. writers, in attempt to appease fanboys, ruin once myseterious and interesting characters. All while ignoring common effin' sense.
Title: Re: Why do so many hate the Expanded Universe?
Post by: DarthBudzy on July 18, 2003, 06:29 PM
Why do so many people hate the EU?

God, where to begin?

I have yet to see any of GL's characters portrayed correctly. They are ALL OUT OF CHARACTER. They do stupid things that they would never do in GL's portrayals.

Then, you got Luke Skywalker marrying a mass-murdering Dark Side Force-user, who killed countless beings at Palpatine's command. She never paid any pennance. Nothing was done to right her wrongs. Everyone just pretended that NONE OF IT HAPPENED.

I mean, yeah, Vader was evil. A lot of EU defenders will say, "Well, Vader was redeemed, why not Mara?"

Because Vader had to die first!

"Well, Mara lost her. . .um. . .SHIP."

OOOOOHHH!!! Her SHIP Heavens to Betsy! Well, that IS the same, isn't it?  ::)  Not even close, people. Death is a tad more PERMANENT.

Now, Luke is married to this evil, evil woman. he is a mere shadow of the hero he once was. Seems like he can't do anything without her permission. HE'S A LAPDOG. Lapdog Skywalker. :P

There's no continuity. Boba Fett was NOT Jaster Mereel. he was the cloned "son" of bounty hunter Jango Fett. Obi-Wan was NOT the brother of Owen Lars. Anakin Skywalker HAD met Yoda before.

And to that guy who said that the prequels aren't canon, let me say this: Think about that for a second. George Lucas, creator of Star Wars, wrote these films. He personally put the Star Wars logo on it. it tells the backstory of Star Wars. You mean to tell me that if God George calls it canon, it's NOT?! Gimme a break!

And, by the way, are any of you aware of the fact that Splinter of the Mind's Eye was written without the permission of George Lucas and Lucasfilm LTD., and the author got sued? And that GL REFUSES to read the EU, nor accept them as canon?

So, why do we hate the EU?

It's not that we hate it.

We just hate the fact that people actually expect us to buy that crap, and call it canon.
Title: Re: Why do so many hate the Expanded Universe?
Post by: dustrho on July 18, 2003, 08:37 PM
Welcome to JediDefender DarthBudzy!  For your very first post, you sure had a lot to say.  Make yourself known over at the Newbies (http://www.jedidefender.com/yabbse/index.php?board=29) section.  Thanks for joining!
Title: Re: Why do so many hate the Expanded Universe?
Post by: Jango Fettish on July 21, 2003, 09:03 PM
I'd like to site "Durge" as my next E.U. critique.

First, Durge was some super Mandalorian Bounty Hunter.

Now, he's a 2,000 year old Bounty Hunter was captured and humiliated by a Mandalorian Army? So, why does he have a modified Death's Head, logo of Jaster Mereel's hunting regiment, on his chest if he's not a Mandalorian?

They can't even figure out what he is, but he's still gettin' a figure.
Title: Re: Why do so many hate the Expanded Universe?
Post by: Dimetrodon on July 26, 2003, 07:56 PM
i always recall the symbol as being a Bantha Skull, although not completey correct looking.. heh
but are u trying to say that jaster and buddies are the only ones entitled to the symbol in any way form or shape?

and durge suck, only because he is too invincible,
example
he is stabbed or shot in the back. "HAHA, i have no spinal cord, try again"
stuff like that.
Title: Re: Why do so many hate the Expanded Universe?
Post by: Jango Fettish on July 26, 2003, 08:52 PM
The "Deaths Head" skull was the equivalent of a battle flag for Jaster Mereel's regiment. So, yeah, they are basically the only ones that can get away with wearing it.

My only guess is that since Jaster Mereel's fleet was the last army standing, Durge is either masking himself as a former warrior or something along the lines of mocking the Mandalorians for fun, to spite them.

Boba wears it in tribute to Papa Fett most likely. I have also drawn the conclusion that the Mandalorian Wheat logo w/ the letter F and the blood drop is in memorium of Fett's parents, who were farmers, slain by a rogue group of Mandalorians. Althought said group was never given a designation, it was more than likely the "Death Watch".

Jango Fett's Expanded Universe story has been tons of fun to get into, and is definately better than most anything I have ever bothered looking into.
Title: Re: Why do so many hate the Expanded Universe?
Post by: Dimetrodon on July 26, 2003, 09:26 PM
The "Deaths Head" skull was the equivalent of a battle flag for Jaster Mereel's regiment. So, yeah, they are basically the only ones that can get away with wearing it.

My only guess is that since Jaster Mereel's fleet was the last army standing, Durge is either masking himself as a former warrior or something along the lines of mocking the Mandalorians for fun, to spite them.

Boba wears it in tribute to Papa Fett most likely. I have also drawn the conclusion that the Mandalorian Wheat logo w/ the letter F and the blood drop is in memorium of Fett's parents, who were farmers, slain by a rogue group of Mandalorians. Althought said group was never given a designation, it was more than likely the "Death Watch".

Jango Fett's Expanded Universe story has been tons of fun to get into, and is definately better than most anything I have ever bothered looking into.

thats some deep stuff. hehe

but we gotta realize something like the wheet stalk was around before jango or anything existed. its really all speculation.
as for durge....
who cares.
its liek asking why OOM-9 has a yellow head and spot, and not a colored body like a security or pilot droid....
who cares.
Title: Re: Why do so many hate the Expanded Universe?
Post by: SPIDERLEGS on July 23, 2004, 06:13 PM
I'm sort of halfway in and out on EU. Some of the EU releases were great. I liked SOTE. I thought the Outrider was a cool ship (wish I would have picked one up). Xizor was OK, I guess. It was interesting seeing a legitimate rival to Vader for the Emperor's favor.  I liked the Luke disquise and Chewie as Snoova. Why didn't they make a Guri figure? she was cool.

Heir to the Empire was decent. Thrawn is a great character and one of my favorite Imperial figures. Of course Mara Jade is awesome ( I had to buy two of them so I could make Guri from SOTE).

Dark Empire I was sort of out on. I liked the Devastators, but I got sick of the Emperor always coming back as a clone, though the clone Emperor is a cool figure. I didn't really care for the art in Dark Empire, either.

I loved The Clone Wars. Though the releases for the cartoon are more statue than figure. They don't do much, so they're kind of disappointing. I bought them all anyway, but...

I have always been into the STAR WARS comics going all the way back to issue #7 of the Marvel Comics line when Han Solo and Chewbacca bail on the rebellion to go pay Jabba back and wind up in a band of mercenaries to save a village from swoop bandits. Anyone else remember this story line? One of Han's buddies was a big green rabbit named Jaxx. It was a direct ripoff of some old western where the two outlaws go around hiring mercenaries to protect a town from bandits.

I tried to get into the SITH and Tales of the Jedi series, but I admit, STAR WARS is character driven for me, so I don't necessarily want to see some random character I've never encountered as a main character unless they develop the character fully. I'm sure they did develop characters, but I wasn't in to that ancient version of STAR WARS. Maybe I'll give it another shot sometime. I never like it when they bring in another random Hutt into the EU comics, I'm over the Hutts. I don't like for new stories to rehash too much from the old ones.I hate it when characters die and oops, wait, they're back.

I would like for someone to do an EU series that is a bit more adult oriented. I don't mean nudity or gratuitous violence, but more sophisticated themes, less cornball one-liners, despicable villains and obviously flawed heroes. Maybe delving intomore complicated plots without so much convenient resolution. I don't know. Maybe like STAR WARS if done by Ridley Scott or the Wachowski brothers. I didn't like the Matrix that much as far as the whole Neo/messiah storyline went, but I loved the look and the background. I would love it if there were a STAR WARS equivalent to the Animatrix.
Title: Re: Why do so many hate the Expanded Universe?
Post by: Lestat on March 20, 2006, 07:25 PM
Ok a few things:
- Luke marrying Mara- This is not a relationship that happened as soon as she was introduced, they new each other for years before there was even a spark of interest.  The fact that people think Luke wouldn't marry a former darkside user or that it's "out of character" doesn't make sense. Based on luke's journey from ANH to ROTJ it is intrinsic to his character that he believe that people can change no matter how "evil". If not for this belief then Vader would never have been redeemed and the whole purpose of the "Canon" (the tale of Vader's rise, fall , and redemption) wouldn't make any sense. Further, Mara was manipulated by the emperor. She had very limited darkside powers so that Palpatine could influence her. Obviously she wasn't completely under his control but it's not like Luke married a Dark lord of the sith. Yes, Mara was an assasin for the Empire but calling her a mass murderer on par with Vader is completely unfair and inaccurate. And my last point about Luke and Mara is that Luke isn't whipped, he's just married ;)

The thing that absolutely KILLS me about EU haters is that they will dog out really great characters like Quinlan Vos, Mara Jade, and Kyle Katarn but will bend over backward for dumb sh** like Icecream maker guy. ::)
Title: Re: Why do so many hate the Expanded Universe?
Post by: Jesse James on March 21, 2006, 06:02 AM
I'm not sure I follow you on the issue of Katarn and the others in your last part there Lestat.

The ICMG doesn't have much background that I'm aware of...  He didn't even have a name till recently, so without much history to him, him appearing elsewhere, etc., I don't think that they've bent over backwards to include him or elaborate on him.  Give him a name and some "existance" though I see...  Even mminiscule EU though can suck I've learned.  A character with a simple brief bio can be really dumb and interwoven to the main characters no matter how obscure and irrelevant the character is.  That's a huge gripe of mine.

Scott mentioned on the last page how there'll be the 'Taun Taun Horn" bar too for some place's name...  That's a good example of BAD EU'ing I think.  Hoth is supposed to not even really be a known place afterall.  Stupid...

But anyway not to get sidetracked, I don't necessarilly look at the marriage of Luke/Mara poorly...  I don't feel that those characters have been exploited though really (Jade, Katarn, etc.) that you listed.  If anything, Katarn's part in EU's mostly ceneterd around his game exploits...  He only had 3 books, none were considered great or even long stories, and they too had some focus around his game exploits...  Beyond that it's mostly been Katarn in NJO which I don't think was a very big role.  I'm disappointed if anything with the fact no GOOD EU story outside his games really has been focused on Katarn.  There's a ton of pre-Jedi Knight Katarn to be told, I'd love to get into that and write it myself for LFL.   ;D
Title: Re: Why do so many hate the Expanded Universe?
Post by: Lestat on March 26, 2006, 03:02 PM
I didn't mean bent over backward in the sense of making up a back story for him, it was more me just taking what was an admittedly cheap shot at the whole fan's choice disscussion/argument that's been going on. And I agree that the whole "Taun Taun" bar is an example of bad EU but it's consistent with Obi- wan making comments like being sent on a "wild Bantha chase" in ROTS. I agree that the concept of the "taun taun bar" or Obi wan using a term from a planet we've only known him to have gone to once is lame but it certainly isn't exclusive to the EU.

I agree that alot of the really good EU characters have not been used to their fullest potential. Your example with Katarn and also I think that Mara Jade's character hasn't been very well developed. I don't know if I missed it, but I don't think that there has been a book that actually goes into her and Luke getting together. It felt like they were friends and then all of a sudden they were married.

All in all I feel that there is bad EU and bad Canon (I hate sand it gets every where...but not like you...Ew.) But to act like it all sucks just because some of it does just doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me. Obviously because there are so many different artists involved with the EU , no one project is going to appeal to everyone (I find Zahn's stuff pretty boring <even though I really like Mara Jade and Thrawn as characters> but most people love him). But, in a way, that's kind of the cool thing about it because when you find a book that appeals to your particular perspective it's a really fun read.
Title: Re: Why do so many hate the Expanded Universe?
Post by: MetalJedi on March 26, 2006, 04:52 PM
Wow Im surprised someone brought my thread back from the dead.   ;D
Title: Re: Why do so many hate the Expanded Universe?
Post by: Darth Slothus on March 27, 2006, 12:44 AM
This is a really good thread Rob! everybody is making nice friendly arguments/viewpoints with (no doubt) good humor.
My favorites were Rob's line about What did everyone just pack it up and go home- Or Jesse's LIL' joke about The Thrawn/Dark empires ;D.

Me personally? Don't really know enough to make a valid register on here. What I do know is that Quinlan Voss is now my 2nd most favorite SW character of all time behind Vader. I can only say that I've been really entertained by the Dark Horse clone wars photonovels and other comics like
Republic and Obsession. I really like the comics OK, I think they're cool-So maybe I'm a real comic geek but Oh well..can't please everyone. As for Books I'm really weak here....I read Labrynth of Evil in  2 days and really liked Grievous' background storyline in there..but have never really read ANY of the POST OT books to know anything about the Vong, thrawn, clone emperor, ect..

I guess what I'm saying here is that I really am an EU fan but I don't have a lot of info(experienced info) to back that. I think EU is nice because SW is an all the time/ on going thing in my mind and who says(sorry George) we can't have an expanding/developing imagination with the SW story?  8)
Title: Re: Why do so many hate the Expanded Universe?
Post by: Nathan on March 29, 2006, 12:23 PM
And, by the way, are any of you aware of the fact that Splinter of the Mind's Eye was written without the permission of George Lucas and Lucasfilm LTD., and the author got sued? And that GL REFUSES to read the EU, nor accept them as canon?

I know I shouldn't really waste time replying to a three-year-old post by someone who never returned afterward, but I had to set this straight. I've been around a while, and I've NEVER heard that about SOTME.

In fact, the rumor I heard was that it was conceived as a potential sequel to ANH. The Star Wars Wiki says, "According to an interview with Alan Dean Foster in Empire, the book was written to be filmed as a low budget sequel if Star Wars was not a huge success. That's why it takes place almost entirely on a fog shrouded planet. Additionally, Harrison Ford was not signed for the sequel as of the writing of the book, which is why Han Solo does not appear in it." Now, I can't confirm that as 100% true either, but it does fit better with other things I've heard over time.

P.S.: the part about Lucas never, ever having anything to do with the EU is bogus too, and can be disproved from examples I won't waste time with here. Understandably, he doesn't recognize them on the same level as his own vision, but he seems to regard them as a sort of parallel universe that can coexist with the films.
Title: Re: Why do so many hate the Expanded Universe?
Post by: Jesse James on April 4, 2006, 06:34 AM
Yeah Lucas isn't terrible about EU...  For instance the Boba Fett issue is classic as to exemplifying Lucas's stance on things.

Lucas approved the comics, which brought back Fett explicitly to capitalize on an over-hyped Star Wars background character with no real solid story...  Lucas set some "rules" for Fett's character for whoever wrote about him, but he didn't really say anything beyond the few guidelines...  Otherwise it was a thing where they could just have at it and put together a story people would enjoy and buy (that last bit being the key).

Lucas himself has gone on record saying Fett's dead to him...  In his "Star Wars World", Fett goes in the Sarlacc and starts a long painful death and that's that.  No glorious Sarlac vomiting and Fett resurrection. :)

Now, of course EU fans and Fett fans (most of them anyway) don't agree with that...  Even though Lucas himself says it's "how it is" to him, and he is the creator, but that doesn't seem to matter...

That's the fun about any form of outside analysis of art, be it literary or film or whatever...  When I had my Tolkien Studies course, one of the key concepts my prof wanted the class to keep in mind was that art is interpreted differently by everyone...  That includes Lucas's FILMS even...  The established "canon" as it were doesn't necessarilly mean you can't view it differently from different people.  The films have different points of view you can develope from watching them...  EU's kind of the same.  I think Canon is just a GOOD guideline for base arguments/discussions...  Like it sets some "facts" for lack of a better term since you're tyring to have solid discussion on a fictional universe...

The EU then is more loose and open to interpretation which makes its conversations sometimes more interesting, while the films are a little more "solid" and "factual" if you will...  It's good then because like if someone wants to argue the size of a ship or some such, you can say "no, the film clearly shows it is such and such feet long", and it's tough to debate because "the films are canon" and that's that.  Other elements of the films are really easily interpreted differently or viewed with different glasses by different people...  Like Luke's growth through the trilogy, or whatnot...

The discussion of the somewhat open-ended EU material though is great to me because there's more personal creative freedom one can use when looking at it.  Everything from EU art of a character varies from image to image, and the writing varies greatly too...  It's much more condusive to the imaginations of the readers/viewers interpeting it and discussing it as opposed to the films which are more solid and not all elements are easily interpreted in different ways.
Title: Re: Why do so many hate the Expanded Universe?
Post by: Nathan on April 6, 2006, 12:18 AM
Lucas himself has gone on record saying Fett's dead to him...  In his "Star Wars World", Fett goes in the Sarlacc and starts a long painful death and that's that.  No glorious Sarlac vomiting and Fett resurrection. :)

But then again, I've also read a rumor that he toyed with the idea of adding Fett climbing out of the Sarlacc into either the 97 SE or the 04 DVD (I forget which).

Of course, BOTH might have been true at the time he said them--he seems to change his official stances about such things on an almost weekly basis. :P

The discussion of the somewhat open-ended EU material though is great to me because there's more personal creative freedom one can use when looking at it.  Everything from EU art of a character varies from image to image, and the writing varies greatly too...  It's much more condusive to the imaginations of the readers/viewers interpeting it and discussing it as opposed to the films which are more solid and not all elements are easily interpreted in different ways.

Good point.
Title: Re: Why do so many hate the Expanded Universe?
Post by: dafoo on September 26, 2006, 05:55 PM
Wow Jesse James your posts are so close to how I feel about EU.  I'm not sure what to add to it. heh

I've always loved how they make the effort to make the whole EU one story, of one history.  But like Darkhorse has infinities (what ifs), I wish they'd do the same with some of the earlier EU.  It doesn't all have to fit together; and I'm one that loves order!  The Prophets of the Dark side, couldn't we have just left that out?

That said, I still want to get an official timeline list of all things Star Wars.  Comics and books and video games and the RPG stuff all meshed into one history. It is like I love the continuity and hate it at the same time.

I think the Vong series hurt EU.  It was borglike, and it dismantled what Jedi were.  Made them too simple to kill.  The whole idea of "if I can't feel you in the force, I can't fight you."

EU also relies too heavily on the movies characters.  I loved X-Wing for the move away from "beat up Luke" book of the month.  I don't mind NOT seeing jedi in a story.
Title: Re: Why do so many hate the Expanded Universe?
Post by: Oboewan on November 3, 2006, 09:34 AM
Wow Jesse James your posts are so close to how I feel about EU.  I'm not sure what to add to it. heh

I've always loved how they make the effort to make the whole EU one story, of one history.  But like Darkhorse has infinities (what ifs), I wish they'd do the same with some of the earlier EU.  It doesn't all have to fit together; and I'm one that loves order!  The Prophets of the Dark side, couldn't we have just left that out?

That said, I still want to get an official timeline list of all things Star Wars.  Comics and books and video games and the RPG stuff all meshed into one history. It is like I love the continuity and hate it at the same time.

I think the Vong series hurt EU.  It was borglike, and it dismantled what Jedi were.  Made them too simple to kill.  The whole idea of "if I can't feel you in the force, I can't fight you."

EU also relies too heavily on the movies characters.  I loved X-Wing for the move away from "beat up Luke" book of the month.  I don't mind NOT seeing jedi in a story.

I totally loved Jesse's post too- the EU and the whole Star Wars Galaxy is open to individual interpretation... everyone see's it from their own "point of view" as Obi-Wan so eloquently put it.

The Vong series was not my favorite-- read it I did, love it I did not.   I'm currently re-reading the post OT novels and just started Planet of Twilight and just realized something that really bothers me about Callista- when she "comes back" and has no connection to the force, Luke can't even see her at all....  and that sorta got me thinking about how the Jedi can't sense the Vong in force either... but Callista isn't Vong.. so shouldn't there be at least SOMETHING Luke can sense in her?

Just speculating....

Oboewan
Title: Re: Why do so many hate the Expanded Universe?
Post by: GrandMoffNick on December 15, 2007, 03:52 PM
Couldn't disagree with you guys any more. I love having one timeline. It of course doesn't always work out but I love it. I also loved the Vong!!!!