JediDefender.com Forums
Collectibles => Past Hasbro 3.75" Lines => Revenge of the Sith => Topic started by: jokabofe on May 11, 2005, 11:29 AM
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Does going out and buying up all the Army Building Clones that I can get my hands, even though I know they are hard to find and that I have friends (both local and online) that need them, make me a bad person?
Let's just say for the sake of argument that I have 20 AT-TE Tank Gunners - is that wrong?
Don't get me wrong - if I go to Target or Wal*Mart and find 20 Clone Commanders, I'm not going to buy them all. I might buy like 15 of them, but I will leave a few. However, if I find 4 or 5, I'll buy them all.
Am I no better than a scalper for doing this, even though they are all for me and I'm not going to turn around and sell them?
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No, you are not a bad person. I try to do the same thing. It's Hasbro's fault for not supplying enough army builders - people should blame them; not people like you and me.
:P
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I often ask myself this on the way to the register. Then I think "What about the poor guy who will wind up paying 20 bucks for these Clone Commanders?" I made sure I left some of those, but come tommorow and friday, the number 6 Clones are fair game.
Kevin
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I have also asked myself this question many times. When I'm walking out of the toy aisle with my arms full of clones, I feel bad. But most of the army builders I find usually re-surface before I get enough money to buy them all., so I figure everyone else gets a pretty fair chance. ;)
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The figures for ROTS are the first time I've really started to Army build several different types of figures. I built up a nice-size Battledroid/Destroyer Droid army with the EP1 releases, but that was it. I've bought of all of the white-mailer-box Army Builders that have been released. And I did get a case of the EE SA Clones. So for me army building means building small squads more than generating huge armies.
So far, for ROTS, I've been army building (numbers indicate how many of each I have open)
Clone #6 (6)
Clone Commander (3)
Clone Pilot (6)
Clone AT-TE Tank Gunner (4)
Battledroid (6)
Preview Wookie Warrior (4)
Target Exclusive SA Clone (4)
and I plan (as soon as I start to see more) getting multiples of
SA Clone #41
Wookie Warrior (dark and light versions if possible)
I want at least four of each of those open. Plus I plan on getting at least two Wookie Helicopters to open. Out of all of the battles in the movie - I hope to build up a "Battle Kashyyk (sp?)" type diorama with all of this stuff - throw in a couple of Spider Droids, I'm hoping they'll make a Tank Droid at some point and I'll be good to go.
So - anyway back to buying multiples....
I do feel guilty sometimes, like with the Target exclusive SA Clone - I feel bad when so many people here say they still haven't found it and I've got enough to make a little four clone squad to fight alongside a Commander Neyo figure (if they ever choose to make one).
I really didn't feel bad about getting the #6 clone or the preview Wookie Warrior - those were/are everywhere.
The new army builder wave - there is a case of that that's packed evenly 3 of each figure - I think they will be all over in a little while. I may even grab a second Nemoidian to open and two more Destroyer Droids to add to my sep forces.
Did I feel bad grabbing almost all of the Wave 5 Col 1 figures from the one case that was put out at my WalMart on Monday morning? Yes and no - Yes because there weren't any SA Clones left, but no because I went into the store at 7:45 AM - the store opened at 7 AM, there was plenty of time (IMHO) for an earlier bird to catch those worms. So when I'm being laid back and not knocking down the doors down right when the store opens and I STILL find stuff, then I just take it as a sign that I was MEANT to buy that stuff.
Army builders should never feel guilty. If you're buying all of the multiples to open and display how you want then great. If you're buying all of the figures to resell down the road, that however, isn't really okay in my opinion. Heck - even buying multiples of what is turning out to be a HTF figure so you can use it as trade-bait down the line is okay in my book too.
So I say buy what you want and as much as you want. Never scalp the stuff. Trading is cool. Picking up multiples to help you other buds out is even better.
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So I say buy what you want and as much as you want. Never scalp the stuff. Trading is cool. Picking up multiples to help you other buds out is even better.
And that, believe it or not, is actually how I got most of my current Clone Army. I rarely, rarely ever find new stuff in stores, not sure why. I do go out and hit up some places early in the AM, but there are no stores that are right near me, so it's usually a 15 - 20 minute drive. And most mornings I can't swing that and get back in time for work (since I work retail, I have to be at work just when most of the stores are opening).
So far, this is what I've got:
Clone #6 (25)
Clone Commander (20)
Clone Pilot (15)
Clone AT-TE Tank Gunner (20)
Target Clones (4)
Clone #41 (0)
(These numbers include some figures I don't actually "have" at the moment, but are on their way)
For whatever reason, I really don't army build with the "other" armies (Wookies, Droids, etc.) I mainly concentrate on the Clones (and the Stormtroopers from the OT obviously).
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Do I feel guilty? Sometimes yes, only because some people give me a rash of **** about it (on different boards). So I do build, but usually dont tell how many of certain figs I buy. I never buy all from one location though. I try to spread it out weekly through different stores.
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So I say buy what you want and as much as you want. Never scalp the stuff. Trading is cool. Picking up multiples to help you other buds out is even better.
And that, believe it or not, is actually how I got most of my current Clone Army. I rarely, rarely ever find new stuff in stores, not sure why. I do go out and hit up some places early in the AM, but there are no stores that are right near me, so it's usually a 15 - 20 minute drive. And most mornings I can't swing that and get back in time for work (since I work retail, I have to be at work just when most of the stores are opening).
So far, this is what I've got:
Clone #6 (25)
Clone Commander (20)
Clone Pilot (15)
Clone AT-TE Tank Gunner (20)
Target Clones (4)
Clone #41 (0)
(These numbers include some figures I don't actually "have" at the moment, but are on their way)
For whatever reason, I really don't army build with the "other" armies (Wookies, Droids, etc.) I mainly concentrate on the Clones (and the Stormtroopers from the OT obviously).
I want to change my previous post. No, I no longer feel guilty. ;)
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I don't think it makes you bad. However, if there is someone in the aisle that only wants one clonetrooper. You have 25 in your arms it might be nice to spare one of them for the poor person. You know what I mean? I mean you have 25. He has zilch. LOL!
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I don't think it makes you bad. However, if there is someone in the aisle that only wants one clonetrooper. You have 25 in your arms it might be nice to spare one of them for the poor person. You know what I mean? I mean you have 25. He has zilch. LOL!
I agree with this too - and unless it's someone who I know is NOT a SW collector - I'm more than happy to share what I find with the people who walk into a store with me at opening time. There's one guy in the area who gets two of everything - one each for each of his two boys - we're always on the look-out for stuff for him and when we happen to meet up if there's something "good" on the shelves we both want, we happily share it. That's just being polite (IMHO).
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As someone who doesn't army build (I sometimes buy two) I don't mind a person buying as much as they want, because some people buy two of a figure anyway, or sometimes three. If that's what you want, buy it.
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I don't think it makes you bad. However, if there is someone in the aisle that only wants one clonetrooper. You have 25 in your arms it might be nice to spare one of them for the poor person. You know what I mean? I mean you have 25. He has zilch. LOL!
To me, that's the main difference in army building that I don't think a lot of people take into consideration when they bash army builders, like rebeltrader mentioned he experiences.
A true army builder might be buying 25 of the AT-TE Gunner in the aisle, but would (I've found) happily hand you one if he/she were asked nicely.
Someone who isn't so scrupulous will look at you like you're insane when you ask him/her to part with one of those 25 AT-TE Gunners so you can finally have it in your collection. After all, that little guy is going to pay for his/her retirement, don't you know. ::)
To put army builders and army hoarders in the same boat is, to me, wrong and insulting. Army builders are opening these figures to make dioramas, or photo novels, or what have you; army hoarders are locking them away from light and the elements so they can have them AFA graded and sell them for 100 bucks on Ebay.
So, to all you army builders, don't feel guilty because you're doing it for the right reasons. Just don't forget to give your old pal DoctorPadawan one of those 25 Clones since he's on your side and all. ;)
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Good post Doctor Padawan (and thanks for hooking me up with the Clones you sent me).
:P
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I don't think it makes you bad. However, if there is someone in the aisle that only wants one clonetrooper. You have 25 in your arms it might be nice to spare one of them for the poor person. You know what I mean? I mean you have 25. He has zilch. LOL!
Always. I've given away quite a few over the years. Mostly to smaller children, because I'm a little more skeptical when an adult asks for something that I may have in my hands. I know that person may also be an army builder like myself, but they might also be a scalper :-\
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I don't feel bad when I buy more than one Clone. If there is no one else in the aisle they are fair game. Granted I dont usually buy more than 3 of the same figures. Thats if I find them.
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I'm not one that really army builds much either, with my biggest armies probably being 10 or less (6-7 Commtech Stormtroopers and 5-6 #6 Clones are probably my biggest right now)...but I don't think you are a bad person at all. I realize some people really enjoy the army building aspect, and sometimes even focus just on that, and if you want/can afford/have the space for large armies....more power to you. Plus, I know that you (and others on here who do army build) would be the type that if you were buying say...for example....20 Clone Commanders, and ran into or talked to a collector who was looking for just one and couldn't find it anywhere, you would help them out. Otherwise, if you want it and find it, you should buy it. The only problem I have is the stories you hear about some people (usually scalper stories actually) where a person (or even a child) is looking for just 1 of a certain figure, and the person who is buying 10, 20 or more won't give them the one for their collection. Otherwise, build away! :) I wish I had the money and space to do a little more of that sometimes.
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It's a lot easier and saves gas to buy them when you see them. Much easier to buy 10 at once then to buy only 1 or 2 or 3 at each store because you're afraid you might offend someone.
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When I was buying the #6 Clones the first week figs got released, I bought 10 from Walmart (same WM, same time). Granted there were over 40 of these things and I live in a real rural area. Plus it was about a week after the first waves got released. Someone made a comment to me about making money on ebay. I bent all my cards and told him I wouldnt be making much money on damaged cards. Plus I told him I wouldnt get much of a return after opening them. He looked puzzled. He had no idea of the army building concept.
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If I called you a bad person for army building, then I'd be a pot calling the Kettle black. My sentimate is the same as everbody elses, as long as you don't out right haard them, there's nothing wrong with it.
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I would generally say no, it's not bad. But it's probably more considerate if you build your armies in moderation somewhat, otherwise some might tag you with the ol' "hoarder" moniker, and a lot of people consider that almost as bad as a scalper. I personally don't, but I've seen many a fight over at RS over this issue...
I only army build with OT figures for the most part, but generally limit things to about 7-12 of any given army builder. With the prequel figures, I may pick up a few extras here and there, but nothing more than 3 or 4 altogether.
My general practice would be to probably nab about 4 figures at onset, like when they're first released. When they're brand new and red hot, I'll try to leave what I can behind, or maybe grab some of them for friends. But I'll personally only take up to 4 at one store store for the first few weeks. But if I see a bunch of them on the pegs at once, to the point where I can take a nice hanful but still leave many behind, then that's definitely fine.
But once a figure's been out for a good 4-8 weeks, especially if it's actually starting to pegwarm a little, then hell, clean 'em all out if you'd like.
I guess it's times like say, Midnight Madness, where one guy may grab all 10 Royal Guards and every single Clone Commander right in front of a bunch of other collectors who get nothing, that it really becomes a messed up problem. At a figure release like that, I just grab my required 2, and wait 'til later to get some more if needbe.
The Target Clone I guess would be the prime example right now on potential "evil hoarding", since it's so HTF and many people have none, while others escaped from Target stores with entire cases. Something like that I think is pretty messed up, personally.
Just try and keep an eye out to help your fellow local collectors or forum members with army builders if they may have missed out on them entirely. Otherwise, knock yourself out, amass your armies, and enjoy...
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Under normal circumstances, I'm all for army building. But let me describe the local climate that I've been dealing with over the last several weeks in search of the AT-TE Gunner and the SA Clone...
Here, it is creating such a repulsive environment at retail that I can barely stomach being in stores watching the scene. I've never seen so many people running and shoving their way towards the SW section. A lot of the problem is because of the Clone availability. Locally, people are so outright greedy about their rampant Clone obsessions (or as others have accurately put, army hoarding), with the attitude that what is on the shelf is fair game, that there's a lot of people getting screwed over while some are just plain hoarding. The people I’ve run into in the aisles have been downright assholeriffic, and less than concerned about any other collector other than themselves. (This is LA, after all).
Right now, I don't feel there is enough supply of army builder figures out there to satisfy the collectors who are looking for one or two, much less them plus the guys that want say, more than 10. I credit you guys that build armies that don’t mind sparing a figure for others. It certainly doesn’t happen around here.
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Personally I usually don't buy more than 2 of the same figure at a time if there are only 4 or 5 of them . There have been many occasions that I have grabbed all 4 or 5 figures just to keep them away from the Hot wheels guys or scalpers that are hanging around, then after they leave put them back. You can always tell who is a real collector by the fact that when they have multiples of a figure they will always part with 1 or 2 to help out a fellow collector. Its those @$#&!% scalpers that have loads of figures and just ignore everybody. So in conclusion, army building is not bad.
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Of course not. If a figure is in short supply and it's because it's a highly sought after army-builder, I blame Hasbro for still not unerstanding that troops sell - a lot - and failing to get appropriate amounts of product onto the shelves.
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I agree with Rob...
You wanna blame someone, retail and Hasbro are right there... Solid cases of Clones would sell. 3-packs of Clones would sell. Clones sell. Hasbro doesn't get the figures out there... That's more the problem. They shouldn't EVER offer a Clone as an exclusive. To me, that was a bad move in and of itself.
The "Hoarder" title applies to people with other intents... They want to trade to help themselves out (I don't necessarilly disagree with this), or the term as I more generally apply it is to people "investing". Investor maybe is better than hoarder. The guy who gets all the CLones he can thinking he'll make a buck down the road. No different than a Scalper...
Army builders... I know that's at least why SOME of the Clones are gone in my area, I can't fathom it isn't at least part of the reason I can't get a TE Gunner or Commander (Or #41 Clone, or Wookiee Warrior #2) in my area, but I also think scalpers/hoarders(investors) are in the mix there more. And at least ARmy Builders are my collector buddies just with different styles... The other guys are just jagoffs that are screwing the hobby over for personal gain.
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The Target clone was a mistake straight up and down. My Target got lots of them in today, but as I had to choose between #41-44 and the Target clone, I chose basic figure joy. Not that Hasbro cares, because those $13 clones will be history regardless.
I feel bad for you guys having so much trouble finding clones. They sit here. The only figure you absolutely cannot get is the Red Royal Guard.
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Hey building armies is where it is at. I was all pissed off cause I couldn't find any commanders b/c other army builders in my area were buying them. But hey who ever gets there first wins. Today I was at Target at 7:50, by the time they open they had 6 commanders and I got mine. All the other times I missed them cause I was late.
Besides eventually the collectors that want one or two will get theirs and if not they can email me and I'll hook them up.
Building armies make you and me and all of us kick a$$ collectors.
Gatillo
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I agree Gatillo. Army builders are where it's at. I doubt we'll go to hell for this.
:P
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But when you go to the store how can you tell the difference between and army builder and an army hoarder?
I have seen "collectors" in my area carrying 10 or 12 of the same figure and I don't have one. So I have gone up to them and asked if they could help a fellow collector out. I have been met with different answers and even once got not one but 2 figs handed to me. Usually the "collector" gets pist off and remarks something about luck or the early bird. Granted some of these are scalpers but I know some of them to be collectors from message boards such as this.
My point is, they are just toys, nothing worth getting the snot beaten out of you over. Sometimes I just want to go Order 66 on their a$$.
Gatillo
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Keep in mind, guys, that the longer the line sells, the longer they'll continue it. Army builders buy lots of ****, and that equals $$$ for Hasbro.
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It's pretty easy to army build here. Every store has more than a few #6 Clones, Commanders, Pilots, and Droids. But if you want to get 6 red Guards, forget about it. I have three, and feel slightly guilty about that. They can't be found anywhere, and I have three. :P
I don't fault anyone for army building at all. The product is being purchased and opened for their enjoyment.
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The only guilty party for you having 3 red guards is Hasbro. You should have more if you want more. This figure should have been produced and shipped in abundance.
:P
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No doubt about that. I heard the big H considers it a 'chase' piece. I hate that word.
I'll gamble they show up in better numbers later. At least I hope so.
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I don't think army building makes anyone a bad person. I'm an army builder, and I can empathize with the sentiment. As long as you're leaving something behind (provided there's more than 1 or 2 of a given figure), then I think army building is fine. When someone goes into a store and buys EVERY army builder and it's just an unreasonable number of figures relative to what's in stock in that store, then I think that coule be considered hoarding.
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I let the clones sit on the pegs till today. No one bit, so I just picked up 5 more. Sad for them.
Kevin
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I agree with the current sentiments so far. I started army-building this past summer and have picked up lots of ep. II clones off of e-Pay for pretty cheap. I've been building a ROTS Clone Army, but I always try to buy 1 or 2 figures at a time and leave the rest for my fellow collectors (or I'll pick up some extras for 1:1 or at-cost trades). I think that army-building is good for the hobby because it encourages Hasbro to make exclusives such as the Entertainment Earth Army Builder sets (which I think was an excellent idea and should be done again with ROTS Clones.)
Basically, as long as you're not scalping and are willing to "share the wealth" with fellow collectors, I say buy as many as you want/can because it all evens out in the end ;D
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I guess it all depends on who you ask this question to really. I've seen big fights break out other places over this issue, so it's refreshing to see such a high level of civility and tolerance here in this discussion so far. I agree with most of the comments made in this thread too. I think just using some common sense on what seems fair to take off the pegs works best. Consider the other collector's needs in your area, and how new and/or abundant a particular army building figure is, before deciding how many you'll be buying on any given trip.
I also agree that this shouldn't even be an issue in the first place, if Hasbro just played it's cards right, and made enough army builders to satiate demand. There's so much money to be made with these types of figures, yet no matter what, it seems that there's never nearly enough to fill the demand, and that's just not good business sense if you ask me. Top army builders should get shipped in solid cases for a while, so the army builders to buy to their heart's content, and all the rest of the collectors and kids can buy the one or two that they want also. No reason that shouldn't be a manageable strategy.
I'd also strongly suggest not using army building figures as limited exclusives, like the Target Clone, because that's just always going to lead to problems. Hasbro should just go back to putting out those white mailer boxes with 4 figures in each one, and everything would be fine. Why is that so hard to do now?
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The Red Guard is showing up more and more in my area. There are few Blue Guards (3) that have been sitting for weeks. K-Mart has had Red Guards sitting for a week. I am seeing these figs in the same numbers, so I dont think the Red is a chase.
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I still haven't seen a single red guard in stores since the week of 4/2-4/9
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Well, Clone Commanders and Pilots have officially become peg warmers in my area. ??? I can understand with Pilot since the head sculpt sucks IMO but the Commander is one of the best from the line. To date, I have only seen 1 AT-TE Tank Gunner on the pegs.
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They are both pegwarmers in my area too. Everytime i see a few commanders I want to rescue them :'( but I already have 10 and I have to wait for the bunch of figures hitting in june.
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I don't think it makes you bad. However, if there is someone in the aisle that only wants one clonetrooper. You have 25 in your arms it might be nice to spare one of them for the poor person. You know what I mean? I mean you have 25. He has zilch. LOL!
I agree with this too - and unless it's someone who I know is NOT a SW collector
How do you determine who is and who is not a Star Wars collector? :-\
I'm just wondering how often you've actually turned someone down because you somehow knew they weren't a collector. Army building doesn't make you a bad person, but not sharing with someone you bumped into in the aisle because you don't think they're real collectors, well that's a different story...
I don't think army building makes anyone a bad person. I'm an army builder, and I can empathize with the sentiment. As long as you're leaving something behind (provided there's more than 1 or 2 of a given figure), then I think army building is fine. When someone goes into a store and buys EVERY army builder and it's just an unreasonable number of figures relative to what's in stock in that store, then I think that coule be considered hoarding.
I agree with Nick.
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How do you determine who is and who is not a Star Wars collector? :-\
I'm just wondering how often you've actually turned someone down because you somehow knew they weren't a collector.
I've turned down people in the aisles who have asked for 1-2 of my Army Builders because I knew they were NOT a "real" collector.
I "somehow knew they weren't a collector", because I've been to the comic/hobby shop that they owned and seen where those figures would have ended up. :P
Granted, it probably isn't cool to hoarde if someone else is right there and is interested in the figures, but when it's a person you KNOW is one of the local scalpers, I don't have a problem with stiffing them. ;)
Jeff
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What are your guys limits? I concentrate much more on my imperial army which leaves me less room for PT armies, so I have a limit of 10 max of each viable builder. After that, I leave them sit on the pegs.
Who goes all out, who shows restraint?
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I kinda put the Clones in the same boat as the Stormtroopers... and by that I mean that I have no control at all. If I see a Clone or a Stormie - I grab it. My Clone army still has some growing to do to catch up with my Stormtrooper army (I'm currently sitting at around 145 - 150 of the Commtech Stormies) but give me some time and I'll be there. I would say that if they didn't change the helmets between Ep 2 & 3, I'd be pretty close. But now I have 2 different Clone armies. That makes me mad >:(
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What are your guys limits? I concentrate much more on my imperial army which leaves me less room for PT armies, so I have a limit of 10 max of each viable builder. After that, I leave them sit on the pegs.
Who goes all out, who shows restraint?
I keep thinking I'd like to show restraint - but then I keep going "hey, it's only one more".
For the #6 clones I can restrain myself because there's the better SA Clone out there - but so far I haven't really been leaving SA Clones or Gunners on the pegs. I guess If I started getting into numbers like 100 - I'd try to force myself to quit.
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I'd like to find SA's and TE Gunners even. :) I'm seeing Commanders though on every trip, just not every store.
It's amazing though what the movie's release did to the product... Like during AOTC's premiere the figure totals didn't really dwindle. I went out tonight for my post-ROTS premiere toy run and both Wal-Mart's I hit were hit HARD and had some empty pegs even... Target had gotten some figures in because there was remnants new stuff that wasn't around last week prior to the film's release but it looked like a lot had moved. Toys R Us had even noticeably been depleted of all types of figures, but the vehicle department looked either replenished or the same as last time there.
The army builders available I noticed were the new Wookiee, Neimodian, and Clone Commanders/Pilots. Those other Clones are high on my list to pick up in multiples, but so far I've only been able to build a nice #6 army... The TE's and SA's are just non-existant, though their case-mates are definitely there taunting me. :)
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Our stores got hit pretty hard after the movie opened too, especially Target, and especially those Force Battler things. They've restocked pretty well for now (WM is hopeless) but they're still getting figures fast and furious.
SA Clone and Tank Gunner also the only no shows around here. And the red Guard.