JediDefender.com Forums
Collectibles => Past Hasbro 3.75" Lines => Saga '02-'04 => Topic started by: JediMAC on May 29, 2003, 06:45 PM
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I never used to give a rat's a$$ about analyzing the paint jobs on my figures before buying them. That was up until the tail end of the POTJ line, when I noticed some wildly varying paint applications on figures like R4-M9, BoShek, etc... A lot of really sloppy paint apps, with an occasional decent one here and there to be found.
I had also taken notice of the occasional posts here and there around the boards about people who actually took the time to pick out figures with nicely painted eyes, and whatnot. Always found it a bit strange really, 'til I took a few minutes to do a little comparing at the pegs at some of my local stores. Lo and behold, there were some figures that were just painted much better than others! Some VERY noticeable differences within the same figure really...
So when the Saga line finally rolled out a little over a year ago, I suddenly found myself neck deep in a whole new area of OCCD (Obsessive Compulsive Collecting Disorder). I was a paint app fanatic all of the sudden, and I couldn't control it. This suddenly made my carded and loose completist ways a lot more challenging (which I didn't much care for)... So now I not only obsess over finding a nice mint card for the carded collection, but also now obsess over having both the carded and loose figure I get have a very nice paint job to boot! Oy. :'(
But like everything else surrounding the collecting of SW, the various challenge makes it worth it IMO. Might cause an extra headache or two hear and there, but it's fun to know you've managed to pick out the best of the best for your personal collection. No more coloring outside of the lines on my figures! And no more cross-eyed buggers either! :P
As a result, I'm occasionally stuck with a new dilemna now though: In respect to the carded collection, I'm sometimes stuck with the decision of whether to go with the better card, or the better paint job on the figure within it (I usually choose the card though, unless the paint app is really bad. But with the loose collection, screw the card - I want the fanciest paint job in town! :-* I believe I was discussing this topic with Beth (Jadesfire) a couple weeks back, as she was wondering the same thing: Nicer card, or better paint job (for the carded folks)?
My favorite paint job pickup so far has been of the Saga Chancellor Palpatine figure, you know - the one with the chicken pox...?! I realize he's got some age spotting going on in the movies, but c'mon now! Well, after looking through MANY Palpys back at that time, I managed to find several that had almost no spots on them whatsoever - looked real sharp, and therefore didn't detract from an otherwise incredible figure! Picked a couple of 'em up, but kept a freaky chicken pox version just for nostalgia as well! ;)
So regardless of whether you collect carded, loose, or both - which of you folks really spend the time analyzing a number of different figures at the store's pegs to see who has the nicest paint job before buying it? I know I can't be the only nutcase that does this, so chime in! I hope I'm not the only nutcase anyways... :-\ If so, I suppose it won't be the first time... :-*
EDIT: Just a quick point of clarification here to avoid any confusion... I should add that this doesn't have anything to do with trying to hunt down the odd "rare" paint variants that some people consider valuable. I could care less about that stuff personally. This is just about looking for the nicest paint jobs for your respective figures... ;)
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You know, this is just another weird sort of variation hunting that I've never gotten into. I usually don't even notice the differences in paint on two figures, unless it's something really obvious...but I so rarely see those anyway.
But I know there are guys that hunt for that stuff. It's like, because some factory worker dabbed some gray onto a belt instead of white, it's "Worth" more or something?
I hardly notice at all anyway, so I'll leave those for you or the next guy. :)
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Well, that's a whole different ballgame you're mostly talking about there Josh. I didn't mean to suggest anything about looking for those "valuable" paint variations like some people enjoy doing (and just edited my post a little to reflect that). That ain't my thing at all (as I'm sure you know).
But like I said, I never even took notice of figures paint apps until I was looking at some of my R4's and BoSheks and just saw paint splattered every which way on most of them, which I found rather annoying... But after a little searching around, I lucked upon several that had real nice, sharp paint jobs - so that when I looked at them I could enjoy the figure a lot more, rather than just noticing it's super messy paint job...
There's alse been several figures with varying degrees of "washed" paint jobs (Bespin Luke, Ephant Mon, etc.) - some real heavy washes, and some much lighter where there's a pretty noticeable difference. Occasionally poorly painted teeth stick out as well - like on the Bespin Escape Chewie, or Teebo (or some Mace's)... And I guess when it comes to wires, buttons, and such, I just prefer the paint to be put in the right spot, and not actually next to it's intended target.
Just anally picky about stuff, I am. But that's nothing people here don't already know about me I suppose... :P
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So when the Saga line finally rolled out a little over a year ago, I suddenly found myself neck deep in a whole new area of OCCD (Obsessive Compulsive Collecting Disorder). I was a paint app fanatic all of the sudden, and I couldn't control it. This suddenly made my carded and loose completist ways a lot more challenging (which I didn't much care for)... So now I not only obsess over finding a nice mint card for the carded collection, but also now obsess over having both the carded and loose figure I get have a very nice paint job to boot! Oy. :'(
Matt, I'm in the same boat as you. There are figures out there that have great paint jobs and some that don't. One figure that's a good example are the POTJ Imperial Officers. Some had perfect-looking faces, but then others had poorly painted faces. So, ever since then I've been very anal about the quality of paint jobs on figures.
I definitely have OCCD.
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If I notice a major flaw at first sight then I will look for another. But I do not give a rat's a$$ since I am just happy to have the toy.
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Hey, good topic Matt!
I have always looked at the figure inside the card as much as the card itself. When my son was younger, I would buy two of each character-one for him to open and then a carded one for me (as I knew down the road I'd end up with all his stuff anyways ;) ). So I tried to find the best card but was so stunned at how awful many of the Leia's looked, I started picking my figures by how well they looked in the card as well. Now it has gotten to the point that if the figures head is turned too much and I can't see it, someone forgot to paint eyeballs on (poor, blind Padme), or the paint is just slopped on, I'll take a better paint job over a nicer card.
Well, too a point anyways. I mean the card can't look like someone pulled it through the slots on the bottom of a shopping cart, but I'll tolerate a warp, bend, or crease to a certain degree.
I don't really look for the variations that I read about unless I see that it enhances the figure (and I can't think of one figure that any variation did that for).
But all of this involves finding the new waves; so at this point I'd probably take a blind Padme!! :P
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Actually, yeah. I do look pretty hard at paintjobs. Provided I've got a choice of figures. I'll compare for a little while. I spent quite a few minutes trying to pick out the Obi-Wan Kenobi-Acklay Battle I was going to get for myself, and the ones I was going to trade to my friends (sorry guys!).
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If I have a variety to choose from sure...
For instance I was at the mall today, and hit TRU looking for the impy 4-pack. I got it, and there were like 7 there. I checked all 7 and was narrowing it down one at a time... I got one with a good AT-ST driver paint job whose helmet's slightly tilted. Personally I liked the tilted helmet BTW, as it gives him a natural look.
Sometimes you don't have a choice though... If that's the case I just buy what is available to me.
The Impy Officer I saw enough times (Not the new ones) to have a choice at first... After I saw them a few times I didn't care what their faces looked like, I just wanted what they had. ;D
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I only started looking at paint jobs as of recent. Mostly the paint job on the eyes aka Yoda w/ Padawan 2 pack and the Imperial Force 4 pack.
Im glad I dont have it that bad. Im lucky too see many new figures as it is p here in the "wasteland".
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I do not.
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Since we're both artists, even my wife looks at the paint apps on figures before purchasing them. Especially around the eyes. Gotta make sure the eyebrows look good and that the pupils are looking in the same direction.
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I still look for the better paint jobs on all the figures that I purchase...what's the sense in getting a lousy looking figure!
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I am asking seriously here, are action figure details hand painted at the factory or are they machine painted. It would super awesome if someone ever got into a factory and did a story on the whole process (I'm guessing they are sweat shops though so Hasbro probably won't allow it)
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Scott, as I understand it, it's a little bit of both. Workers use templates to apply paint by either a spray or stamp process. Once upon a time, I had a link to some photos of a factory tour. I'll see if I can scrounge them up.
(And yes, by American standards, they're sweatshops.)
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I was just reading some not so great stuff put out by Hong Kong watchdog groups, nothing I didn't expect, underpaid uneducated workers getting screwed by the man with tons of middle men in between squeezing profits out of every figure
basically, profit is around 33% per figure for Hasbro...at $5 that means everything $3.35 is profit for Hasbro...don't forget the retailer takes and about 3 middle men take as well. The workers are left with around $0.07 per figure between around 5 workers per figure on a line. They are usually paid on a per figure basis and work 12-14 hours per day in July-Septemeber and then get laid off once the holiday rush is done
I am not against sweatshops per se because it is capatalism at work and everyone wants to make a buck...I think everyone should think though about how it all gets from point A at the initial extruder to Point ZZ on your shelf or wall
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You know, I was just thinking about this topic, and I realized there is one figure I did this with.
Hoth Luke on the Taun Taun. When I saw him in the stores, I looked at the back of the box, and he was supposed to be REALLY mangled. Mine looked like he only had a slight scratch and a black eye, so I looked at some others, and found one that had been a little more "brutalized". That's the one I got.
So there you go, I guess I do it too.
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Up until last year I never really paid much attention. When I first saw Eeth Koth on the shelf (about 20 or so of 'em) I noticed off the bat that a coupkle had really lousy face tattoos, and picked out the best one I could find.
When the Saga figures first started coming, I was grabbing without really looking, and paid for it--my Preview Jango has an unpainted right leg. Saga Palpatine also hurt--I searched through for the best liver spots I could find--only to not notice the inner-sleeve details on his left arm were missing.
Now I compare when I have the opportunity.
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I'm like most everyone else here. I'll definitely do some comparing if I have more than one choice (which hasn't been too often lately). I pay a little closer attention to some of the figures with more detailed paint schemes (tattoos, buttons, eyes, hair, all astromechs, etc.) There really are some pretty noticeable differences on them if you look closely.
I probably first started my paint scheme analysis back near the beginning of the POTJ era, or possibly the end of Ep. 1 though, when I noticed a few goofy paint screw ups on the figures I had bought, especially on Maul's head.
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ALWAYS, and with all my toylines.
unless its on ebay.. then.. oh well.
i'd tell you why i do it, but it seems to have been covered.
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I was just reading some not so great stuff put out by Hong Kong watchdog groups, nothing I didn't expect, underpaid uneducated workers getting screwed by the man with tons of middle men in between squeezing profits out of every figure
basically, profit is around 33% per figure for Hasbro...at $5 that means everything $3.35 is profit for Hasbro...don't forget the retailer takes and about 3 middle men take as well. The workers are left with around $0.07 per figure between around 5 workers per figure on a line. They are usually paid on a per figure basis and work 12-14 hours per day in July-Septemeber and then get laid off once the holiday rush is done
I am not against sweatshops per se because it is capatalism at work and everyone wants to make a buck...I think everyone should think though about how it all gets from point A at the initial extruder to Point ZZ on your shelf or wall
Hello, do you have a link to this information, and not to put you on the spot per se but what will thinking about it do? For you at least.
Thanks,
Matt
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Heh, I'd love to compare paint jobs. I often get to do it at my leisure, simply because no one else is buying all the damn Shaak Ti and Nikto Jedi figures clogging the pegs at TRU. If I want anything new, I'm at the mercy of my trading partners or ebay seller. Being picky just isn't an option. New figures are so rare that I'm so damn excited to find one on the pegs, the only thing on my mind is making sure somebody doesn't bump into me and make me drop the card. That and making sure the cashier doesn't beat the crap out of them or fold them to make them all fit in the bag.
About sweatshops:
One problem I always have with these types of discussions is that some people (not saying anyone here) always tries to put a North American perspective on the conditions and wages. Got news for those folks, the average salary in China does not equate to $5 us an hour or whatever minimum wage may be. The comparison needs to be made between wages and working conditions in the country under consideration. As North Americans, we have the luxury of our society and having those expectations for working conditions. That crappy jobs exist does not mean that people are exploited. It may well be true, but are you prepared to pay $20 US for each 3 3/4" figure?
My considerations for people in those factories is that they are not placed in dangerous conditions. If it is indeed a fire trap or they are beaten, then it is an issue. If they work long, hard hours at a locally competitive wage, then I have no problem with it.
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http://www.cic.org.hk/download/CIC%20Toy%20Report%20Web%20eng.pdf
It is an Acrobat file so you need that to read it
Brent, there have been incidents with some Euro Toy makers which are a lot worse than American Companies, the problem is that the toy manufacturers really aren't owned by a parent Western company and so it is up to the local authorities to protect the workers (which due to lack of education is almost impossible)
Like I said earlier I am not against sweatshops and thank my lucky stars that there are groups like OSHA and the EPA in the US who are out to protect workers rights and safety on the job. I think that is the thing to think about Matthew, appreciate exactly where that toy comes from, the women on the painting line or the guys in the mold room, pumping out thousands of figures a day in conditions while they may be great for China would make most Westerners cringe.
I also read about the fact that toys have always been made in the cheapest labor spots in the world and once the price gets to high the industry will move on to other plants in other countries leaving these already seasonal employess out of jobs
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Will look at your link Scott, just not tonight.
I also read about the fact that toys have always been made in the cheapest labor spots in the world and once the price gets to high the industry will move on to other plants in other countries leaving these already seasonal employess out of jobs
All true I suspect. You can follow the movement of the Nike factory pretty well from year to year (well, several years...) but what started out in one country is no longer there. Pretty interesting to watch over the past 20 years. I think they began in Taiwan (began about 20 years ago) and moved at least twice, now residing in Japan.
As regards the original topic, I finally had an opportunity to do a comparison with the McFarlane predator stuff and there is quite a bit of variation. I believe I pulled the best paint job and took it home ;D
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Yeah, I usually check, and thankfully, Hasbro has been doing pretty good lately from what I have seen. I did see a new hover chair Yoda at a collector's shop last week that had a horrible paint job on one of his eyes. The guy was charging $23.00 for it. ::)
With the new Imperial 4-pks, I have had to be very picky with them. It seems that 9 out of 10 I see have horrible paint applications on the Stormtrooper mask and the AT-ST driver eyes.
:P
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Once upon a time, I had a link to some photos of a factory tour. I'll see if I can scrounge them up.
Well look what I found. ;D
If you have broadband, check out this link (http://www.picturetrail.com/gallery/view?p=999&gid=1438844&uid=429597). Even with my cable modem it takes a while to load, but once it does you'll be able to scroll down the left hand side (waaaayy down) to some pretty interesting pics and descriptions.
Otherwise, check out these images:
Painting Spawn figures by hand (http://pic4.picturetrail.com:80/VOL49/429597/1438844/17254663.jpg)
Drybrushing Alien & Predator bases (http://pic4.picturetrail.com:80/VOL49/429597/1438844/17298270.jpg)
Dabbing grass stains onto SportsPicks (http://pic4.picturetrail.com:80/VOL49/429597/1438844/17254546.jpg)
Mask spraying a... baseball hat? (http://pic4.picturetrail.com:80/VOL49/429597/1438844/17464171.jpg)
And here's a rundown of how McFarlane does their paint apps:
"Mask spraying is a big part of what makes a McFarlane toy what it is. On average, most companies will have only several paint applications and only a couple of colors. Most of the figure is molded in colored plastic to save money.
McFarlane figures are 100% painted and the look, I'm sure you'll agree, is noticeably different. For each dab of paint, a mask must be made. A liquid is brushed all over the piece, except where the painting is to take place. The liquid dries and the piece is immersed in a vat of chemicals, which is then electrified.
Much in the same way chrome plating is done. The liquid that was brushed onto the piece, attracts copper molecules which are suspended in the solution inside the vat. It takes about 24 hours for this process to be completed. When its finished, a copper skin can be peeled from the piece and you're ready to paint.
Not so fast though, you need to make quite a few of these masks. The masks only last a few thousand paint applications. If we make 100,000 pieces of one figure...that's a lot of masks, for just ONE paint application."
BUT WAIT! THERE'S MORE:
Tampo or Pad printing (http://pic4.picturetrail.com:80/VOL49/429597/1438844/17464522.jpg)
"This is a two color tampo printing machine. The object to be printed is placed in a molded holder to ensure it is held securely and always in the same place. Alignment is critical! Since this is a two-color machine, the procedure is performed twice."
I hope that helps.
(Gotta love the information superhighway. 8) )
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Wow, that's some pretty interesting stuff there John, especially that entire factory tour! Thanks for the links and the info. Nice to get some real insight into the manufacturing and paint application processes on this kinda stuff...
(http://pic4.picturetrail.com/VOL49/429597/1438844/17254663.jpg)