JediDefender.com Forums
Community => Watto's Junk Yard => Topic started by: Mainland05 on April 23, 2004, 02:04 PM
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Has anyone heard of this rumor yet?
Do you all think we will have another draft for the war in Iraq?
What are your thoughts?
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I don't think that we will have a draft for this Battle in Iraq but we may need to have one to combat the entire War on Terror which will in my opinion could be considered WW3. I don't have a problem with the draft being bought up again but I think noone should be exempt from it. We should start something like the Isreals have where everyone has to serve two years in military duty or three years, for those who object to fighting, in a civilian non combat role. I don't have a problem if I get drafted in the military since someone has to fight for the Freedoms that every single person has in this country and if the price of that is to sevre in the Military so be it, that the price I have to pay for my Freedoms.
I also think that this thread will probally be looked at closely by the staff here juat like the last thread that was started about Bush and Kerry.
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It undoubtebly will, as it was my request personally that got the last one closed... I don't like this kind of conversation around these parts personally since it's something I utterly DESPISE over at Rebelscum where it's let roam relatively free (it spills over from the W&P thread, so that doesn't detain it adequately IMO).
It breeds bad blood between members... To me then, if it's irrelevant to Star Wars toys, it's not worth having at the site.
Keep this civil...
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I think must of the people bringing this up are politicians that need their name in the headlines. From what I understand, must military are against a draft, since you then have an army that's not as well trained and doesn't want to be there anyway
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I'd like to see your sources SLC, since from what I can tell it's mainly the military asking for it. You have to admit, it isn't that bad an idea, I know that in 4 years I may very well sign up.
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I won't get too deep into it but I think some sort of civil or military service is a good thing to have. If they deem a draft is necessary I will support it. Wars are a terrible thing but thats why we have our freedoms because of those who serve or have served. I don't feel its a bad thing to be a part of.
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Take everything I say with a grain of salt, I am a Canadian and we do not, nor will we have a draft. We will rely on the US protect us then we will be presumptious and arrogant about it.
That said, I am a fan of compulsory military service. So long as you allow for civilian roles for those disinclined to combat related roles. Boot camp can teach you an awful lot about solid behaviour and values, something that seems to be sorely lacking in society at the moment.
But that might be a different line to the original intent of the topic.
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I don't feel too good about the thought of being drafted into this "war"... What ever happened to the old times when a war was declared, the enemy wore a defined uniform, and both sides fought along a somewhat defined line? :(
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Well, I really we hope we do not have a draft, I really am not looking forward too it, I guess I could go to Mexico, Canada etc.....
But when it all comes down to it, I know I would go cause I had to! I would really enjoy doing something for America.
Hey my look on the bright side! - *I can kill me some Iraqis* ;D
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*I can kill me some Iraqis* ;D
Well, come on all of you, big strong men,
Uncle Sam needs your help again.
Yeah, he's got himself in a terrible jam
Way down yonder in Vietnam Iraq
So put down your books and pick up a gun,
Gonna have a whole lotta fun.
And it's one, two, three,
What are we fighting for ?
Don't ask me, I don't give a damn,
Next stop is Vietnam Iraq;
And it's five, six, seven,
Open up the pearly gates,
Well there ain't no time to wonder why,
Whoopee! we're all gonna die.
Yeah, come on Wall Street, don't be slow,
Why man, this is war au-go-go
There's plenty good money to be made
By supplying the Army with the tools of its trade,
Just hope and pray that if they drop the bomb,
They drop it on the Viet Cong Iraqis.
And it's one, two, three,
What are we fighting for ?
Don't ask me, I don't give a damn,
Next stop is Vietnam Iraq.
And it's five, six, seven,
Open up the pearly gates,
Well there ain't no time to wonder why
Whoopee! we're all gonna die.
Well, come on generals, let's move fast;
Your big chance has come at last.
Now you can go out and get those reds sandcrabs
'Cause the only good commie Iraqi is the one that's dead
And you know that peace can only be won
When we've blown 'em all to kingdom come.
And it's one, two, three,
What are we fighting for ?
Don't ask me, I don't give a damn,
Next stop is Vietnam Iraq;
And it's five, six, seven,
Open up the pearly gates,
Well there ain't no time to wonder why
Whoopee! we're all gonna die.
Come on mothers throughout the land,
Pack your boys off to Vietnam Iraq.
Come on fathers, and don't hesitate
To send your sons off before it's too late.
You can be the first ones in your block
To have your boy come home in a box.
And it's one, two, three
What are we fighting for ?
Don't ask me, I don't give a damn,
Next stop is Vietnam Iraq.
And it's five, six, seven,
Open up the pearly gates,
Well there ain't no time to wonder why,
Whoopee! we're all gonna die!!
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*I can kill me some Iraqis* ;D
You know that by the time this hypothetical draft is passed, and the new conscripts trained you'll be facing a new foe. I wouldn't be suprised if it was an East Asian nation...as to which one I'll let you draw your own conclusion
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The problem is, Matt, you would be given orders not to fire unless fired upon, I suspect. So your life depends on wether or not the enemy is as lousy a shot as most of them are. I don't like thinking of myself as a sitting duck, but that's pretty much the reality of it.
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You know, true.
From what I have been hearing we might start to have problems with North Korea? Seeing them march the way they did was scary! :o Reminded me of WWII and the nazis?
But, it would be really hard for me to go to Iraq and not just to shooting at them. Knowing in my head, that they have killed lots of ours boys.
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Damnit! My orginal post just deleted due to a breif power failure.
America's threats:
Terrorism, it'll be around for awhile so get used to it. Al Queda is currently the main threat to us in this classification, however that dosen't mean it'll always be so.
China, no friend of ours by any stretch of the mind. First of all they are going to be as powerful, if not more powerful then us within 20 years. They are the modern day USSR/Nazi's, except they hold a valuable chain to our economy making them more of threat than terrorism, IMO.
Consider that if China was to draft their population 18+ there is no way we could ever defeat them without having to employ Nukes. And guess what in the case of a war you can bet China would use Nuclear weapons. They also can hit some of our stauncest allies, such as Japan, Taiwan and India. Not only that, they have strong ties to some of our other eneymes, namely Syria and Iran.
North Korea, not as big a threat as their hyped up to be. The main reason that Kimmy boy is still around is because he has such a strong military and we don't want (guess who) China to get involved. China actually has a use for North Korea, since having that fat little jerk off stiting on nukes valadates them having a strong military prescence in the region.
Russia, while not as big a threat as befour is still a considerable on, given that A.) They still have a lot of nukes, and B.) they're reasonably good friends with (starting to see a pattern?) China. A top aide to Putin (I forget her name) knew about 9/11 or so some reports say and then later prophiciesed that we would see Americans naked in the streets with a decade. Despite the fact that America and Russia have made great strides toward peace, there is still a large contingent that distrusts the US, many of them being top brass.
Iran, currently you could consider Iran to be in the same boat as Russia, spare the fact that Iran in it's current state is about to crumble. It's no secerct that they send combatants into Iraq and have veery close contacts with *bum bum buuuum* China.
Syria, much like Iran, Syria is also harboring eneymey combants. Also are in cahoots with, well that goes without saying now don't it?
White Power Groups, while they had been on the decrease in America for around 20 years (after the failed 'uprising') they appear to be gaining a little more influence in not only the land of cotton, but the home of the brave. Call them domestic terrorists, but when a group professes genocides...well, it's just not a good thing. And after trying to have the Northwest uprise (I kid you not, it was baised on the book The Turner Diaries I think it would be reasonable to wipe these ******* out.
The Illuminati, not to turn this into a New World Order post, but I think it'd be a reasonable gestrue to look in on them, and I mean really look in on them. Waay to much suspcious activitey to just be pushed to the curb.
These are my conclusions baised on my reseach and observatins of the world currently. Take it with a grain of salt.
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Very well said Vator. ;)
Forgot all about China, I am scared of them! :-\
Iran/Syria to me are the same as Iraq - **** em!
Russia I am questioning that?
And I still believe in that North Korea opinion.
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USA is too buddy buddy with China to go around fighting them. Look how much we trade with them. War with China will never happen. Thats why we haven't pressured them to free Tibet or cease invasions on other Asian countries... Our economy relies on them too much for that.
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USA is too buddy buddy with China to go around fighting them. Look how much we trade with them.
Buddy buddy? Hah! This is America, baby! We dont have buddys. We have allies.
Kevin
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USA is too buddy buddy with China to go around fighting them.
That's one of the reason's why we wouldn't start that war. America generally dosen't take on threats that can do serious damage to us. However, China would have a win win situation in taking out the US: Last big threat gone, domination of the world economy, new superpower. I am of the belife that, China hasn't started a war with us yet simply because they aren't ready. Give it 10 years and we'll see how your opinion changes.
Look how much we trade with them. War with China will never happen.
Precisely why they are such a major threat is because of the trade (that chiefly benefits them, IMO) and once again it will and already has on several occasions. Such as: The Korean War, and the cyber war that China launched in spring of 2001, right asfter/during the EP3 Incident (for those of you who don't remember it's when they held our pilots hostage)
Thats why we haven't pressured them to free Tibet or cease invasions on other Asian countries... Our economy relies on them too much for that.
Pardon me but we have, one of the reasons China isn't as large as it was at the time of the Manchu Empire is because we and the international community have held China in. And allow me to restate this, because we are so dependant on China economicaly they are a large threat because A.) They are not out for our best intrests, nor anyones but their own; B.) They are allied with our enemeys and have more than proven to us that infact they are not what you'd call an alley.
Dose that help?
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I'd continue to argue you with you, but this thread is looking very very familiar.
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How so? This is but health conversation/debate and is no way inflammitory.
Please I implore you to make a counter point(s)
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I think I want to quit while I'm 'behind'. ;) If this thread starts resembling rebelscums war and politics thread, (not saying it has "yet".) then I think most people will agree that the topic has gone out of control. I wont be participating in this thread anymore. :-X
I dont want to start any fights with anyone because I would like to think that we're all friends here, and thats not something we see in a lot of other sites, such as rebelscum. :-\
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I agree completly, however, discussing National Security and Military threats, generally dosen't degenerate into flames, if you are level headed and I think most who have/will post in the thread are, then there shouldn't be any problem. It's fine if you don't want to continue, we'll call this particular set of debate a draw.
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I don't think this debate was escalating into a flame war, rather, Vator provided some evidence to support his opinion and you decided not to - at least that's how I saw it.
That's the beauty of debate, everybody thinks they're right. :-*
If you ask me, China and the USA aren't buddy buddy. Not at all. I think many or even most American's will tell you that we distrust the Chinese, North Koreans, etc. Come to think of it, we distrust our own government for pretending to be buddy buddy with them in the first place.
:-\
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Although I'm sure you're right Vator; everyone here seemed to have kept their cool so far, I didnt feel it was in my best interest to push it any further. Whether I was right about my decision, I guess we'll have to see...
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Agreed Playgirl.
Brad, what do you consider to make someone (or something) buddy buddy with? To me it all boils down to trust:
While this has little to do with the military draft, you bring up an interesting point. If you were to ask the everyday Joe Schom he'd probably say he didn't trust the goverment. That'd be a good two hundred something million people, pretty stunning if you think about it.
Hell, the goverment obviously dosen't trust it's self, just take the CIA or FBI for example. Infact the military was largely distrustful/disdainful of each branch until recently.
Then again do we really trust anyone? Maybe a few people, mostly family and old friends, and when you consider all the people that we meet/communicate with, we only really know/trust a small percent. I suppose it's all realitive to the situation, though.
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That's one of the reason's why we wouldn't start that war. America generally dosen't take on threats that can do serious damage to us. However, China would have a win win situation in taking out the US: Last big threat gone, domination of the world economy, new superpower. I am of the belife that, China hasn't started a war with us yet simply because they aren't ready. Give it 10 years and we'll see how your opinion changes.
Agreed. By virtue of sheer population, China could amass an army of tens of millions very easily. Give them a few more decades and it will get considerably worse. They don't like us very much and I won't be suprised one bit if within the next 20 years or so they were to try to start a war.
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Should we pull our boys out of Iraq?
What do you think?
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Brad, what do you consider to make someone (or something) buddy buddy with? To me it all boils down to trust:
If you ask me, to be buddy buddy with someone, you must like this person - not necesarrily trust him/her to any extent, but you must like the person.
I think it's safe to say that we do not like China.
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Should we pull our boys out of Iraq?
What do you think?
I wish we could - but I think it's a mistake. It would just be seen as an abandonment. What needs to be done is to get the U.N. involved and maybe even NATO to some extent - just to get the whole thing internationalized again - because the 'Coalition of the Willing' is a joke.
Unfortunately, this would mean admitting that we need the U.N.'s help - which I'm not so sure George Bush is really willing to do.
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Apparently everyone else is pulling out... I say we hit the road and never come back once the date to hand over the government to the Iraqis arrives.
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Couldn't agree with you anymore! ;)
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Apparently everyone else is pulling out... I say we hit the road and never come back once the date to hand over the government to the Iraqis arrives.
But then the Democrats would be all over that like white on rice, saying that bush didn't keep his promise.
Kevin
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He made his bed...
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First off, the bill is sponsored by the Democrats, Representative Charles B Rangel & Sen. Ernest Hollings, *not* George W. Bush.
Nov 8, 2003 - Asked this week if the president is considering reinstituting the draft, press secretary Scott McClellan gave a quick and emphatic answer. "No," he said, moving to the next question.
Bush is not planning on signing a bill which will reinstitute the draft for the War in Iraq.
Kevin
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But really that's the misunderstanding people have. The draft wouldn't be for Iraq but for future threats. It's to late to draft people for Iraq.
On the case of pulling out of Iraq, I'd like to say that we should pull out within the coming months. There is, sadly, one option that we can take in Iraq: Allow it to fall into dissary and have the side we support rise to prominence, sad but true. Iraq is a mess, the Middle East is a mess and to be honest the future is a mess. I miss the blinded age of the 80s--90s
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It was not to late to draft for Vietnam, when we were there for about 10 years, and had thousands of our men killed and traumatized by the whole war, we did not get **** out of it, but thousands of men that did not come home!
I really do not want to see Iraq end up like this.
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It was not to late to draft for Vietnam, when we were there for about 10 years, and had thousands of our men killed and traumatized by the whole war, we did not get **** out of it, but thousands of men that did not come home!
I really do not want to see Iraq end up like this.
Arrrrgggg...Please don't compair Iraq to Vietnam. Please.
Kevin
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Famine he's from California, what do you expect? ;)
Vietnam and Iraq have a few similarites, but not hardly enough to call it the same.
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Hmmm, this seems to be going down a certain, uncomfortably familiar path.
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First off, the bill is sponsored by the Democrats, Representative Charles B Rangel & Sen. Ernest Hollings, *not* George W. Bush.
Nov 8, 2003 - Asked this week if the president is considering reinstituting the draft, press secretary Scott McClellan gave a quick and emphatic answer. "No," he said, moving to the next question.
Bush is not planning on signing a bill which will reinstitute the draft for the War in Iraq.
Kevin
You're right of course, but the idea of reconstituting the draft is also being strongly advocated by Republican Senator Chuck Hagel (http://hagel.senate.gov/) of Nebraska.
Among others.
I believe the democrats are doing pushing for this to make people think twice about the war in Iraq - i.e. if your own son or daughter could be called up and sent off - but I also believe all this talk has the potential to snowbal into a catastrophe if not stopped immediately.
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Yes, it is, and I asked you guys to play nice... Snide remarks about where someone lives are snide remarks nonetheless...
This is teetering on being closed, and I'm going to be discussing some things behind the scenes with the bossman and others as to how we'll deal with these topics overall.
Keep it civil either way because I don't want to see this getting out of hand and creating unnecessary anymosity between our members.
I'm a Democrat with lots of Republican Friends... I have common sense enough NOT to talk about this stuff with them if I want them to BE my friends and for us to respect each other. I'm thinking this should be the JD.com way as well because nothing good comes from this discussion on either side of a debate.
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Yes, it is, and I asked you guys to play nice... Snide remarks about where someone lives are snide remarks nonetheless...
This is teetering on being closed, and I'm going to be discussing some things behind the scenes with the bossman and others as to how we'll deal with these topics overall.
Keep it civil either way because I don't want to see this getting out of hand and creating unnecessary anymosity between our members.
I'm a Democrat with lots of Republican Friends... I have common sense enough NOT to talk about this stuff with them if I want them to BE my friends and for us to respect each other. I'm thinking this should be the JD.com way as well because nothing good comes from this discussion on either side of a debate.
This was a response I was expecting. Looks like I have something to gloat about...
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Hmm... Yeah, we've been experimenting a little here at JD this past month, by permitting some of these borderline political threads to stay open for a little while just to see how it goes. While I think they've been fairly tame compared to "elsewhere", they are still teetering on the edge of getting a little too heated for our liking.
I'm not a very political fella myself, but it pains me to read the news every day and see more of our boys (and a few gals) out in Iraq being killed, and I really wish we could bring them home, out of harms way. But at the same time, I understand that we're trying to "stay the course" for a little longer in hopes of Iraq getting things up and running somewhat smoothly on their own.
As for the potential of a draft, I just can't see something like that ever happening here again. I'd be really surprised if it ever did, and I'm sure it would cause all hell to break loose all over the country if one was actually implemented. I wouldn't be too concerned about it though...
With that, I'll concur with Nick, Rob, and Jess, and just go ahead and close this one before it gets too exciting. I think most everyone has stated their case that wants to, so it'll probably all just be useless debating/arguing from here on out. If anyone desperately wants it back open, feel free to PM anyone on the staff and we can discuss it.
Thanks for understanding folks. :)
- Matt