Author Topic: Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker (SPOILERS)  (Read 186737 times)

Offline EdSolo

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Re: Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker (SPOILERS)
« Reply #315 on: January 17, 2020, 06:28 AM »
Is there any example in Legends where a Sith apprentice became the Sith Master without killing their master?

I would say the closest I can think of is Darth Vectivus.  Not enough back story on him to know if he actually killed his Master to become the Sith Master or if he had an apprentice.  Since he was supposed to be in the Bane line of Sith, one would assume he passed his knowledge on to someone.  It does say he died surrounded by family and friends, so it does not appear he was killed by an apprentice, but their is no mention of him having an apprentice.

Offline StBrianOfMinneapolis

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Re: Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker (SPOILERS)
« Reply #316 on: January 17, 2020, 10:07 AM »
Is there any example in Legends where a Sith apprentice became the Sith Master without killing their master?

I would say the closest I can think of is Darth Vectivus... he died surrounded by family and friends

 :o :o :o
Surrounded by family and friends? What kind of sith lord is that?
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Offline Jesse James

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Re: Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker (SPOILERS)
« Reply #317 on: January 17, 2020, 04:34 PM »
Heís a family man.  They donít all choke their families.
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Offline McMetal

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Re: Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker (SPOILERS)
« Reply #318 on: January 17, 2020, 06:26 PM »
After percolating on it a little bit, I still donít get Palapatines whole game plan. Originally he wants to bring Rey from Jakku to Exogol, ok. Then Snoke gets a hold of her and seems like he wants to kill her, or at least have Kylo Ren do it. Then Palpatine tells Kylo to kill her too. Then when she shows up heís all like, oh I wanted you here the whole time, huh?

Was he just lying to Rey? Was he hoping Rey would kill Kylo or something? Why not just tell him, bring her to me?

Obviously having them both there worked out well for him, at first, but he had no idea that was going to happen it seemed clear.

Donít get the going back and forth on kidnapping/killing her.
« Last Edit: January 17, 2020, 06:27 PM by McMetal »
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Online Nicklab

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Re: Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker (SPOILERS)
« Reply #319 on: January 18, 2020, 02:05 PM »
I can appreciate the level of confusion about the various machinations.  I think it might boil down to something more simple.  Dark side masters (Sith or not) seem to want to play their underlings against one another.  Spurring rivalries and manipulation seem to be their way in order to achieve strength and power. 

The relationship between Snoke and Kylo Ren was characterized as abusive, with Snoke demeaning him and unleashing his power against Kylo Ren at points (the Force lightning in TLJ).  Eventually Kylo Ren deceives Snoke in the throne room and has his revenge, cutting Snoke in half.  Palpatine seems to have conducted himself similarly - stoke conflict by sending Kylo Ren after Rey.  It could serve as a test of either of them.  Kylo Ren would draw Rey out of hiding, and in the inevitable conflict one of them would prove themselves more powerful than the other.  And the one who emerges from that could serve as Palpatine's heir.
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Offline Matt_Fury

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Re: Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker (SPOILERS)
« Reply #320 on: January 19, 2020, 01:27 PM »
I look at it as Palpatine was grooming Kyle Ren in order to possess him, even to the point of killing Rey.  When Rey showed up at Exogal, he was trying to manipulate her so he could possess her.  When a redeemed Ben Solo showed up to help Rey confront him, he sensed that they were a dyad in the force and was able to use that to restore his current body.

He lied to Ben Solo to manipulate him, just as he lied to Rey to manipulate her, just as he lied to Anakin Skywalker to manipulate him, and lied to Count Dooku to manipulate him, as well as Darth Maul, etc.
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Offline EdSolo

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Re: Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker (SPOILERS)
« Reply #321 on: January 20, 2020, 06:56 AM »
Is there any example in Legends where a Sith apprentice became the Sith Master without killing their master?

I would say the closest I can think of is Darth Vectivus... he died surrounded by family and friends

 :o :o :o
Surrounded by family and friends? What kind of sith lord is that?

It is a bit of an oddball piece of Legends.  It is in one of the novels where Jacen Solo is becoming Darth Caedus.  Lumiya was hiding out on an asteroid.  Vectivus, before becoming a Sith, was part of a mining conglomerate.  He discovered a dark side nexus on an asteroid in field being mined.  He essentially shutdown operations and bankrupted a company in order to keep the asteroid hidden.  After find the nexus, he sought out the Sith and was trained by an unnamed master, and eventually became master himself, through means not detailed in the novels.  His Sith spirit inhabited the asteroid when Lumiya found it.  He had a force ability pretty similar to what we have seen in TLJ and TROS.  He could project phantom images that could interact with someone.  He has some interesting conversations with Lumiya and Jacen concerning Sith not have to be evil in the traditional sense.  Hence, having family and friends.  I haven't read the novels in years, but it was an interesting take.

Offline EdSolo

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Re: Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker (SPOILERS)
« Reply #322 on: January 20, 2020, 07:00 AM »
I look at it as Palpatine was grooming Kyle Ren in order to possess him, even to the point of killing Rey.  When Rey showed up at Exogal, he was trying to manipulate her so he could possess her.  When a redeemed Ben Solo showed up to help Rey confront him, he sensed that they were a dyad in the force and was able to use that to restore his current body.

He lied to Ben Solo to manipulate him, just as he lied to Rey to manipulate her, just as he lied to Anakin Skywalker to manipulate him, and lied to Count Dooku to manipulate him, as well as Darth Maul, etc.

This is it in a nutshell.  Palpatine wanted Rey when she was left on Jakku, presumably to groom her to be the next Sith.  When that failed, he focused on Ben through Snoke.  I would really like to see that back story now since I think it has changed quite a bit since TFA came out.  When Palpatine contacts the FO fleet, he said the princess of Alderaan has disturbed his plans, ie. getting Ben to turn back to the light.  At that point, he figures his best choice is to turn Rey since she has always skirted the dark side.  Honestly, he would have been fine with turning either one.  It just goes along with what we see in the prequels, Palpatine was always searching for a better apprentice.  With Ben and Rey, he wants to turn one, which means the other needs to die because they are a threat.

Offline Rob

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Re: Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker (SPOILERS)
« Reply #323 on: January 22, 2020, 10:16 AM »
Not that this is an issue on this forum, but this comic made me laugh...

« Last Edit: January 22, 2020, 10:18 AM by Rob »

Offline StBrianOfMinneapolis

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Re: Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker (SPOILERS)
« Reply #324 on: January 22, 2020, 10:33 AM »
I took some time and cracked open all my ROTS 3.75" and 6" figures, and there really aren't too many of them.

I'm not sure if the Sith Troopers were originally going to have a larger role, but I got a little annoyed opening these figures (got the deluxe versions) with all their extra weird weapons (?).  I'm the sucker for paying the extra cash, but as far as I can tell none of these extra weapons were in the movie in any way.

The figures themselves were great, but if you haven't already bought them I would opt for the cheaper, non accessorized versions.

There should be a parody where the sith troopers have to go out onto the hull of the destroyer with their red sith yard work accessories to clean up after the space horse invasion.
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Offline Matt_Fury

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Re: Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker (SPOILERS)
« Reply #325 on: January 22, 2020, 03:09 PM »
Not that this is an issue on this forum, but this comic made me laugh...



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Offline JediJman

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Re: Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker (SPOILERS)
« Reply #326 on: January 23, 2020, 12:01 AM »
After percolating on it a little bit, I still donít get Palapatines whole game plan. Originally he wants to bring Rey from Jakku to Exogol, ok. Then Snoke gets a hold of her and seems like he wants to kill her, or at least have Kylo Ren do it. Then Palpatine tells Kylo to kill her too. Then when she shows up heís all like, oh I wanted you here the whole time, huh?

Was he just lying to Rey? Was he hoping Rey would kill Kylo or something? Why not just tell him, bring her to me?

Obviously having them both there worked out well for him, at first, but he had no idea that was going to happen it seemed clear.

Donít get the going back and forth on kidnapping/killing her.

I was talking with a friend about this.  His opinion (which I agree with) is that Palpatine has played out both sides as long as we've known him.  Dating back to the prequels, he's setting up back-up plans and multiple cross purpose strategies to keep several options open to him.  Why try to have Padme killed if he needs her to tempt Anakin?  He's got plans inside of plans inside of plans.  If Rey dies, he makes Ben his apprentice. If Ben dies, he turns Rey. He's better off with one of them dead, so why not play them against each other.  As an added bonus, whoever survived would have proven themselves to be the stronger candidate. 
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Offline StBrianOfMinneapolis

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Re: Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker (SPOILERS)
« Reply #327 on: January 28, 2020, 10:22 AM »
After percolating on it a little bit, I still donít get Palapatines whole game plan. Originally he wants to bring Rey from Jakku to Exogol, ok. Then Snoke gets a hold of her and seems like he wants to kill her, or at least have Kylo Ren do it. Then Palpatine tells Kylo to kill her too. Then when she shows up heís all like, oh I wanted you here the whole time, huh?

Was he just lying to Rey? Was he hoping Rey would kill Kylo or something? Why not just tell him, bring her to me?

Obviously having them both there worked out well for him, at first, but he had no idea that was going to happen it seemed clear.

Donít get the going back and forth on kidnapping/killing her.

I was talking with a friend about this.  His opinion (which I agree with) is that Palpatine has played out both sides as long as we've known him.  Dating back to the prequels, he's setting up back-up plans and multiple cross purpose strategies to keep several options open to him.  Why try to have Padme killed if he needs her to tempt Anakin?  He's got plans inside of plans inside of plans.  If Rey dies, he makes Ben his apprentice. If Ben dies, he turns Rey. He's better off with one of them dead, so why not play them against each other.  As an added bonus, whoever survived would have proven themselves to be the stronger candidate.

Maybe a sith lord is the opposite of a good parent.  Making everything into Mortal Kombat and encouraging everyone to fight and get pissed off is just what they do.
Macklunkey!

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Re: Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker (SPOILERS)
« Reply #328 on: February 3, 2020, 09:51 AM »
This one bit isn't really related to TROS, but this detail came out in the Visual Dictionary for The Rise Of Skywalker about a major location in The Force Awakens.  Ready for it?

Starkiller Base was built on the planet ILUM!  The planet appeared first in the Clone Wars microseries, and again in The Clone Wars animated series.  Then it turned up in the 'Ahsoka' novel, where she discovered that the Empire was strip mining the planet.  And the First Order followed in the footsteps of the Empire, building Starkiller Base there because of all of the kyber crystal deposits within the planet.
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Offline Matt_Fury

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Re: Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker (SPOILERS)
« Reply #329 on: February 3, 2020, 10:20 AM »
If you play Jedi Fallen Order, there's a mission on Illum where you have to retrieve a new kyber crystal.  Towards the end of the mission, there's a shot of what looks like the trench that Poe has to fly through at the end of TFA and if you return to Illum later in the game, a huge chunk has been carved out of the planet and it looks eerily like Starkiller base.
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