JediDefender.com Forums
Collectibles => The Vintage Collection => Topic started by: Rob on November 9, 2023, 10:00 AM
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I wasn’t sure where to ask this so I’m doing it here, maybe we need a new thread or forum section…
What’s the deal with these low articulation 4” Epic Heroes figures Jayson posted on IG this morning?
Are they part of the regular 3.75” line and represent a return to some level of 5-POA offerings in non-TVC packaging? I’m trying to figure out if they’re something I’m collecting and at a glance they look like they would be.
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I wasn’t sure where to ask this so I’m doing it here, maybe we need a new thread or forum section…
What’s the deal with these low articulation 4” Epic Heroes figures Jayson posted on IG this morning?
Are they part of the regular 3.75” line and represent a return to some level of 5-POA offerings in non-TVC packaging? I’m trying to figure out if they’re something I’m collecting and at a glance they look like they would be.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F-fqscJXUAAGzHc.jpg) (https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F-fqscEXwAAW-9n.jpg)
I don't have any more details than Jayson shared, but it seems like they are a Star Wars attempt at what they have been doing with the Marvel line (see the 4" Epic Hero Series X-Men '97 figures (https://www.amazon.com/Marvel-XMN-4IN-Figure-Winchester/dp/B0BDHTRZBV) as an example).
If they are like the Marvel/X-Men Epic Hero stuff, they will be slightly out of scale compared to all the existing 3.75" stuff.
[edit - updated pic]
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Ah okay, interesting. If they're a different scale, I won't collect them. I guess we'll wait for more details.
Feels silly for Hasbro to not just keep them to scale with everything else if the shift is so small, but they'd be doing me a favor if they don't line up in that regard.
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TVC proves it's popularity by backing all three TVC Haslabs made.
TVC is way behind Black Series in new characters and product in general.
Hasbro's solution: create a new 4 inch 5 POA line that does not fit in scale with TVC. ::)
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TVC proves it's popularity by backing all three TVC Haslabs made.
TVC is way behind Black Series in new characters and product in general.
Hasbro's solution: create a new 4 inch 5 POA line that does not fit in scale with TVC. ::)
I really don't get this at all. Why not 3.75" 5POA? I've said it a million times that I'd be glad to buy all new 5POA figures if that is what it would take to hit profit margin targets. TVC is great and I hope they keep it going, but the slow trickle of new figures is leaving huge gaps that I would be glad to have filled by new 3.75" 5POA figures.
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Star Wars needs an introductory line for the 1:18 scale. How many 8 year olds are clamoring for TVC figures right now? Or their parents who are not existing collectors?
I’ve seen Hasbro’s Marvel Epic Hero Series figures. They’re not up to the standards of the old Marvel Universe line, but they’re not garbage. They’re an introductory series that can offer vehicles that won’t break the bank. In fact , I already have some of the Marvel Epic Heroes figures from GotG volume 3. I need to compare them for height with some current TVC figures. I think some people might be getting unnecessarily hung up on the 4” figure thing.
This line makes sense in advance of the release of the “Skeleton Crew” series. That’s supposed to feature a number of kids in the cast. A line like this seems like it could support that Disney+ series in real time and reach that broader audience.
Plus, this line could be a way to get more 1:18 scale vehicles back on the shelves of the big box retailers. Lots of collectors recognize what junk the electronic 12” figures are, but they’re keeping that lower shelf space that used to be occupied by vehicles. A vehicle line that consists of ships that are all priced above $100 is not friendly to the market. TVC vehicles have been amazing, but they get released at a very slow rate. A $30 to $40 assortment of vehicles is much more accessible to the broader market and has the potential to generate volume sales. I don’t think for an instant that this will replace the Vintage Collection, but it can definitely help build out worlds at a more affordable price point.
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Star Wars needs an introductory line for the 1:18 scale. How many 8 year olds are clamoring for TVC figures right now? Or their parents who are not existing collectors?
I’ve seen Hasbro’s Marvel Epic Hero Series figures. They’re not up to the standards of the old Marvel Universe line, but they’re not garbage. They’re an introductory series that can offer vehicles that won’t break the bank. In fact , I already have some of the Marvel Epic Heroes figures from GotG volume 3. I need to compare them for height with some current TVC figures. I think some people might be getting unnecessarily hung up on the 4” figure thing.
This line makes sense in advance of the release of the “Skeleton Crew” series. That’s supposed to feature a number of kids in the cast. A line like this seems like it could support that Disney+ series in real time and reach that broader audience.
Plus, this line could be a way to get more 1:18 scale vehicles back on the shelves of the big box retailers. Lots of collectors recognize what junk the electronic 12” figures are, but they’re keeping that lower shelf space that used to be occupied by vehicles. A vehicle line that consists of ships that are all priced above $100 is not friendly to the market. TVC vehicles have been amazing, but they get released at a very slow rate. A $30 to $40 assortment of vehicles is much more accessible to the broader market and has the potential to generate volume sales. I don’t think for an instant that this will replace the Vintage Collection, but it can definitely help build out worlds at a more affordable price point.
I totally agree there needs to be a more value oriented line. TVC is way too expensive for kids/moms.
The part I don't understand is the move to 4". Why can't they stay with 3.75" for the value line (e.g. 5POA). We've got 45 years of 3.75" history. If you keep it at 3.75" you'll get long time collectors and soccer moms. If you go to 4" you'll still have your soccer moms but you're going to lose a lot of your collectors.
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They had it right back when Solo was coming out with Force Link 2.0.
There were super articulated figures and then they filled out other characters with more limited articulation. I can only assume that wasn't making them the money they wanted it to or they'd still be doing it. But like others are saying here, making these into a separate line by adding like 1/16th of the size to them and changing scale seems like a huge miss to me.
I'd love a 5 POA line if it let us get more obscure figures made and the sculpts were decent. TVC is great, but I don't need 30 points of articulation, I want variety.
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Jayson has a new post saying the 4” scale is not a new scale, that what we call 3.75” and this 4” are both the same 1:18.
I generally don’t doubt him. I guess I’ll wait and see if they feel like they fit later and go from there.
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Even within the 3.75" lines of the past there have been clunkers that were way too short or way too tall. Might as well wait to see these in comparison shots before getting too upset about scale.
Potential scale issues aside, so far I am not seeing anything that I need to buy. Just more main characters that I already have...
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Even within the 3.75" lines of the past there have been clunkers that were way too short or way too tall. Might as well wait to see these in comparison shots before getting too upset about scale.
Potential scale issues aside, so far I am not seeing anything that I need to buy. Just more main characters that I already have...
Agreed.
Even if they can create a "Greatest Hits" line that collectors mostly ignore, it could create some momentum at retail and maybe they'll make vehicles, playsets, etc. that are new. It could lead them to then start making some new figures we're interested in (Andor, Ahsoka). It might also pull some of the repaint/repack/kitbash stuff out of TVC and allow that line to get more new and creative stuff in it.
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I like how they did Luke, in his black ROTJ duds, with a backpack, and no Yoda. Doesn't make a lot of sense...
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I like how they did Luke, in his black ROTJ duds, with a backpack, and no Yoda. Doesn't make a lot of sense...
I wonder if it is meant to be from TBOBF and the back pack is for the Grogu?
These look like stinkers to me. I don't love 5 POA, but if the line had good sculpts, paint apps, & character selection, I would have been interested. As is they look like an easy pass for now.
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The backpack symbolizes how Grogu left him for another man(do).
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I wonder if it is meant to be from TBOBF and the back pack is for the Grogu?
Yeah, since all these figures are found in the Mandoverse I'd say that is supposed to be BOBF Luke.
I'm interested to see the backs of the cards - do they have any figure/item cross-sells, info about the show they are from (aka ads for the Disney+ shows), or just a whole bunch of multi-language text and a UPC.
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Jayson has a new post saying the 4” scale is not a new scale, that what we call 3.75” and this 4” are both the same 1:18.
I generally don’t doubt him. I guess I’ll wait and see if they feel like they fit later and go from there.
I've got the GotG Epic Heroes figures. They do not come across as substantially larger than Star Wars TVC figures at all. I'm going to have to take some comparison photos to illustrate any differences.
Generally, I think people are getting hung up about 1/4 inch. I think for the purpose of talking about a figure line whole numbers are probably the easiest way to communicate that. Talking about 1:18 scale or 1:12 scale or whatever else isn't helpful for most people. And with The Vintage Collection there's a pretty wide range of figure heights from character to character. I would say the sky is most certainly not falling here.
If this line can bring us some new items quickly? Along with some vehicles that might not make the cut in TVC? Go for it! I think this could be a great way for Hasbro to deliver the Pirate Snub Fighters from TM season 3, or the fighters seen in AHSOKA without it breaking the bank. Does anyone here think those are an immediate priority for a TVC vehicle? I think they're low on the list there. But they could work in a medium vehicle line with a lower price point.
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I always considered the 3.75" and 4" lines the same 1:18 scale. I just say 3.75" because that's how the Star Wars small figs were always referred to.
Using 6', or 72", as the standard height/length, 1/18 of that is 4". Mark Hamill is 5'8", or 68". (Different internet sources list him anywhere from 5'-7" to 5'-9".) That's 3.778". Close enough to 3.75", which is what we generally call the Star Wars small figures.
My fuzzy logic. :P
But as was mentioned already, we'll see.
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Pre-orders are open for these now at EE -
Basic Figures Wave 1, Case of Six -> https://ee.toys/XZLFHW $63
1x Ahsoka, 1x Luke, 1x Grogu, 1x Mando, 1x Vader, 1x Stormtrooper
Deluxe Figures Wave 1, Case of 4 -> https://ee.toys/FF70TP $52
2x Paz, 2x Sabine
Deluxe Figures Wave 1, Set of 2 -> https://ee.toys/FGQ3N1 $26
1x Pax, 1x Sabine
#sponsoredpost
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I'm getting big 1995 vibes from that Vader.
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Pass on the figures. I had been hopeful that Hasbro would articulate these figures at least as well as the Marvel Epic Heroes figures. But those hopes have been dashed. I'm not going to buy these mostly because I'm not the target market. And that's going to remain the case until there's a character in the Epic Heroes line that just has not been, or is unlikely to be offered in the Vintage Collection.
My hopes for the Epic Heroes line lie with the potential for vehicles. So let's wait and see what develops.
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Pass on the figures. I had been hopeful that Hasbro would articulate these figures at least as well as the Marvel Epic Heroes figures. But those hopes have been dashed. I'm not going to buy these mostly because I'm not the target market. And that's going to remain the case until there's a character in the Epic Heroes line that just has not been, or is unlikely to be offered in the Vintage Collection.
I'm 99% leaning the same way.
I intended to collect the Young Jedi Adventures toys. When I saw them, I just couldn't bring myself to collect them for space-sake. The same rationale goes for these, the exception being a cool figure/accessory/beast/vehicle we'll unlikely see in the "collector" line in the near future.
Happy they're being made by Hasbro. Hopefully it's successful enough with:
- x-over sales from the collector-focused lines
- gift buyers for younger kids ("So-and-so likes Star Wars. I can get 3 of these colorful toys for less than 2 of those. (Those == the TVC or Black Series.))
- kids, who probably has a fleeting interest in SW toys but would enjoy the features
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Have we heard if these are getting picked up by major retail (Target, Walmart)? I assume that is what these are designed for.
I'll be interested to check these out in person and probably pick and choose here and there - looking at you Stormtrooper. I don't think I'm going to chase this whole line but I do like where they're going with this and would much rather see figures like this than Retro figures. Retro is cute and all, but I'd rather get a $10-12 Mon Mothma 5POA in a modern style than a $10-12 Mon Mothma in a Retro style.
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Have we heard if these are getting picked up by major retail (Target, Walmart)?
Jayson has some DPCI info in his mega-rumor list (https://yakfaceforums.com/main/2023/01/03/2023-master-upc-dpci-sku-list/), so it seems these should be at retail to some degree.
My hopes for the Epic Heroes line lie with the potential for vehicles. So let's wait and see what develops.
I'm hoping that we can finally get like a basic Blurrg or that wolf thing from Ahsoka or other things beyond just vehicles too with this new line.
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A Blurrg or a Howler would definitely be nice. But IDK if Hasbro will go there with a creature in this line.
I think it's more likely that we might see vehicles in the Epic Heroes series. And probably something that's on the simpler side. I think we can *POSSIBLY* look to the Marvel Epic Heroes line and its vehicles for an idea of what might happen. But I'm have a difficult time figuring out what that might include if the vehicle line is going to hit a price ceiling of $39.99.
I hope this will not be an excuse to re-release the REBELS speeder bike in new deco for Sabine. I'd prefer that to be re-made from the ground up in TVC as it's seen in AHSOKA.
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Man I don’t know about a Blurgg in this line… I’d want that one to be TVC level stuff.
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These are starting to trickle onto Amazon now...
Ahsoka -> https://amzn.to/3U5DcBy
Luke -> https://amzn.to/42actpt
Grogu -> https://amzn.to/3S5RaAP
Mando -> https://amzn.to/3S94p3I
Vader -> https://amzn.to/3S4v3uK
Stormtrooper -> https://amzn.to/3S2S413
#sponsored #ad
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Thanks Jeff, I snagged the three that are in stock...
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Tempted to grab that Ahsoka…
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Well, Luke got here today. Overall (and this is probably obvious from the promo photos), I'd say it's a less detailed version of the 5-POA stuff they were doing during Forcelink. It's harmless, but definitely basic as hell, and of course the character selection is basic too.
It doesn't feel like good value for almost $11 with tax...
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Just got Sabine, Paz, and Ahsoka... the accessories on the deluxe ones are so bulky and devoid of detail that they really really feel like little kid's toys compared to basically everything else Hasbro has ever done at this scale. I'll be trying to hide them on these shelves...
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It is odd, I've now seen several people praising these (& 5-POA in general) on Reddit, and the posts were getting a decent amount of engagement. Not that, that is a very scientific barometer of people's interest in these in general but I did think it was interesting. I'm curious how many people (kids vs adults) actually LIKE these and what value they have that Retro or TVC does not. As an adult collector, there is nothing here that remotely interests me that I can't already get in TVC, Retro, or older lines. Even as a little kid I feel like I would have greatly preferred TVC, any would have been fine with the Retro figures over the Epic Hero series.
If Epic Hero was a return to ForceLink style 5-POA w/ good sculpts and paint I could see a place for it, but as is, I just can't get on board with this line and it will be interesting to see how long it lasts...
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Yeah I'm not sure it's that, although maybe it's a gateway to that? For example, here's a pair of previous 5-POA Jedi Lukes from a few years ago next to this new one... the new one is definitely over-sized (despite all the talk about these 4" figures being 3.75" scale, they do seem big). The detail is less, the sculpt is clunkier, and they're definitely cast with a firmer plastic that has basically no bend in it. Like, look at his feet compared to the others, they're huge. And only a small bit of that is an effect of the lensing, the new one is definitely significantly bigger.
Articulation aside, these definitely are super generic, almost cartoony / childish sculpts compared to what we've grown to expect. As a collect-'em-all guy, now that I have a few of them in-hand, I'm hoping the line is short lived.
(https://i.imgur.com/VTtDqwo.jpeg)
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Articulation aside, these definitely are super generic, almost cartoony / childish sculpts compared to what we've grown to expect.
Thanks Rob for the comparison. I think I'll be passing on all of these unless they make something truly new and interesting.
Holding out hope that maybe the supporting vehicle or speeder line Jayson rumored for these will offer something useful/exciting and not also be dumbed down, out-of-scale type things.
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Holding out hope that maybe the supporting vehicle or speeder line Jayson rumored for these will offer something useful/exciting and not also be dumbed down, out-of-scale type things.
I expect the vehicles will have some kind of play feature like oversized missile or pullback motor and simplified paint deco. No biggie to me; it is billed as a kid toy-line. If it looks fun and, as you say, properly scaled, I'll pick it up. But, yeah, that comparison pic...
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Yes thanks Rob. I canceled my Stormtrooper pre order and any thoughts of it being army building worthy.
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No problem guys. Since there aren't 5-POA examples, here are comparisons to TVC versions for the other three I have... I feel like Ahsoka is the least offensive, but also really not a necessary figure on any level.
(https://i.imgur.com/PHJ5IOi.jpeg)
(https://i.imgur.com/rH9qzEM.jpeg)
(https://i.imgur.com/6wIQmxe.jpeg)
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Thanks for reminding me how bad that TVC Sabine removable helmet is... :-X
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I was really hoping that 4" really meant 3.75", but it does look like these are all truly a little bigger. Very, very stupid. I am all in favor of a 3.75" 5POA offering, but a 4" 5POA line is beyond stupid.
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Thanks for reminding me how bad that TVC Sabine removable helmet is... :-X
Lol, it's hideous.
I was really hoping that 4" really meant 3.75", but it does look like these are all truly a little bigger. Very, very stupid. I am all in favor of a 3.75" 5POA offering, but a 4" 5POA line is beyond stupid.
I'm really stuck on this line... on one hand, it's basically the same, on the other hand it does seem slightly off. I'm just erring on the side of collecting them for now, I can always get rid of them later I guess.
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I saw figures from this line at WalMart today...if they had Luke I would have bought him.
They had 4 pegs, 2 for the Basic figures and 2 for the Deluxe. But the thing is, each peg was earmarked for a different individual figure.
That's not so bad for Sabine and Paz, they worked out just fine. The basic pegs were for Mando and Vader, and each figure was loaded enough that these must be shipping in solid freaking cases. Why have an assortment if you don't sell them by assortment?
This is where I think Hasbro is shooting their lines in the foot, with the widget mentality. This line will only survive as a kids line if the kids can find the figures. Mando and Sabine vs Vader and Paz is not going to be anybody's play pattern.
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Today was the first time that I've seen these in a store. And while I might have been optimistic about this line when it was first announced, the comparison images on social media were enough to help me make up my mind before even seeing these firsthand. I glanced at them, but it didn't seem to be worth my time to even take them off the pegs, which was kind of sad.
As for the possible vehicles? Having seen some of the Marvel ones in their Epic Heroes Series line, I'm not feeling terribly optimistic.
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Hasbro finally sent out a press release for this line today. Nothing new in there, so not bothering to post them here. Only interesting thing to note is that Hasbro PR says these will be Walmart exclusive (even though we've already seen Amazon and EE taking pre-orders for them). I guess maybe Walmart is the only brick and mortar retailer for them?
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Which makes the 4 pegs/1 figure each layout even more perplexing for an 8 figure lineup. How do Luke, Grogu, Ahsoka, and the Stormtrooper get to retail?
I saw the same 4 peg layout at a second WalMart today and have seen pics verifying it elsewhere. This will be a weird one to watch play out.
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How do Luke, Grogu, Ahsoka, and the Stormtrooper get to retail?
Walmart loves those aisle-blocking shippers. Maybe they'll have those with the rest of the figures. Or, Walmart is just a cluster and those 4 pegs will be over in the auto-motive section or something. Walmart gonna Walmart.
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Cripes. It's like the took all the worst parts of the 2002 era figures and mashed them up with the5-POA era stuff and ran them through a factory that churns bootlegs. "Lets take all the things that piss off the diehards and put them in one product."
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... mashed them up with the5-POA era stuff and ran them through a factory that churns bootlegs.
That is what these look like. Bad bootlegs.
I bet if they put these same figures (maybe colored strangely) on Uzay cards they'd sell a bunch to collectors.
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Hasbro finally sent out a press release for this line today. Nothing new in there, so not bothering to post them here. Only interesting thing to note is that Hasbro PR says these will be Walmart exclusive (even though we've already seen Amazon and EE taking pre-orders for them). I guess maybe Walmart is the only brick and mortar retailer for them?
Oh good, if they’re Walmart exclusives maybe the line won’t last too long.
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I saw these this week at Walmart too, only 1 store out of the 6 or so I checked had them though. The only ones they had were Paz and Sabine too, but she is the one I really wanted so was happy to pick her up. Probably won’t open her since it doesn’t look like a good mesh with the other animated figures, but I’ll grab an Ahsoka if I see her too.
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Jayson commented that the Press Release was incorrect, and that the Epic Heroes series was not exclusive.
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Jayson said that, and Adam Pawlus kind of seconded it in his QnA column this week, saying the figures were all open to order for all, which makes sense seeing as his workplace Entertainment Earth also sells them.
Mr. Pawlus also said there is already a Wave 2 that hasn't been officially revealed, and went on to say "it might be a while before Hasbro feels like actually playing up what could be a pretty interesting development," though it is not clear exactly what he is referring to at this time.
Either way, he concedes it is possible that WalMart might be the defacto exclusive retailer if Target passed up on ordering any, but time will tell on that. For the record, the new carded Marvel Epic line is at Target already, but not the carded Star Wars Epic line yet.
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I've taken issue with Adam ever since around 2014 when he tried to put a positive spin on 5 POA figures. While I can appreciate that he has some inside knowledge on account of his employer, I feel like he was trying to shine a turd when he took that position on effectively dumbing down the 3.75" figure line.
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Party like it's 1995.
(https://i.imgur.com/6uKhdPU.jpeg)
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After over a decade of really nice super-articulated figures, I just can't go back to 5-POA.
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And now for something truly ridiculous... Grogu. I'm starting to regret these purchases.
(https://i.imgur.com/vruF9hC.jpeg)
He's slightly larger than the Black Series 6" scale Grogu:
(https://i.imgur.com/6bQY9mE.jpeg)
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He's slightly larger than the Black Series 6" scale Grogu:
(https://jedidefender.com/jsmentek/lol.gif)
That is my favorite one so far...
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Me too. It might as well have been put out by Playskool.
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Rounding wave 1 out... here's Mando in his elevator boots...
(https://i.imgur.com/vXgrAwU.jpeg)
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Thanks to Jayson I found a full bin of these today at Walmart in the Easter toy section. Grabbed Ahsoka which is all I wanted. Curious to see who will be in Wave 2.
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Curious to see who will be in Wave 2.
Wave 2 @ EE (https://ee.toys/N83IYS) -
1x The Mandalorian (repack)
1x Darth Vader (repack)
1x Darth Maul
1x Bo-Katan Kryze
1x Moff Gideon
1x TBD
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For the first time ever I’m glad there are repacks. Only four to buy this wave…
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Looks like there is an N-1 with Mando and Grogu. I’m desperately hoping those figures are repacks. 🤦♂️
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The N-1 Mando pack in comes with his jetpack... >:D
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Kill me.
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Looks like there is an N-1 with Mando and Grogu.
At $35, it costs ~1/4 what the TVC version did. That will assuredly bring complaints from some people who spent $130 on the TVC version. Here is the Yakface pic for those who have not seen it. Yakface story (https://yakfaceforums.com/main/2024/04/10/epic-hero-series-n-1-starfighter-with-mando-grogu-coming-soon/)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GK2DYf3WUAE30sW.jpg)
Kill me.
At least it's only $35 - and maybe you'll catch a nice sale. :-\
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lol.
It’s less than 1/4 the cost of the TVC one but it’s also less than 1/20th of the quality.
At $35 it’s only $20 more than Paz Vizla was. I have nothing but complaints with this line but here I go.
I’ll just sell the ship and try to get $15 or $20 back.
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For those buying these (Rob), do you think one could make a squad of Stormtroopers that would look OK if they were not with regular 3.75 figs?
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They are pretty bulky and missing some black paint, especially the visible white neck. And they have hexagonal weapon ports on their arms. These all detract from really displaying with other more "realistic" modern figures.
That said, I bought 2 to pose ironically squaring off with some POTF2 Rebel Fleet Troopers. They are much better in that setup than other modern Stormtroopers or POTF2 ones, which have aged very poorly.
I
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I’ll be interested to see how well the new N-1 vehicle works with TVC figures. I’m not opposed to buying some of these more basic vehicles if they look okay and can fit the TVC figures without them swimming in the cockpit.
I have no interest in collecting these figures, although I may struggle to resist if they come out with never made before figures.
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Yeah that would entirely be a question of what your standards are. If they’re low, you could certainly do it.
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Yeah that would entirely be a question of what your standards are. If they’re low, you could certainly do it.
I wouldn't say my standards are low, but I think these things should be toys and not statues. Ideally you find some balance of both, but things like light up moving chin guns on an AT-AT, and shooting NERF bullets are not screen accurate but pretty cool from a toy perspective. This version of the N1 definitely seems a bit chunky, but I'll be interested to see how it works from a toy perspective with TVC figures to see if scratches the toy itch.
I certainly don't want the TVC figures slopping around in a giant opening where they can't really sit properly or where a droid/Grogu can't fit right. Looking at it I'm mostly worried about how the droid/Grogu socket is going to work with TVC figures. The TVC version handled this fairly well with the different inserts, although I wish you could have fit a whole R5 droid in there and not just a dome.