JediDefender.com Forums
Collecting => Customs => Customs Community and Group Projects => Topic started by: Fritzkrieg on January 31, 2006, 05:49 PM
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I've had a some request for commissioned Customs lately. But, I have some reservations about making Customs that are for someone else's taste and standards. I like making customs and if I can create a way for my customizing hobby to help pay for it's self, it would only alow me to make more customs. Great right? The only thing is, if I'm making customs on someonelse's dime, I have to cater to their quirks and whims, which could make my hobby not so fun. So, I am Considering Ebay as an option. This way if some one likes a custom they can pick what they feel it's worth and I don't have to worry about unsadisfied clients because they see what's available and choose whether or not they want to purchase it. My question is does this help or hurt our Customizing Community? Please LMk your opinions on this matter.
Fritzkrieg
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I think it could help. I've seen alot of topics lately about people complaining about their commissions and talking about them. I would definitely say it would help as long as you don't advertise them. If you know what I mean.
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Admittedly, at first I thought that selling figures on eBay was a lame way to "make a buck." That was my initial knee-jerk reaction though. After thinking about it a bit more, I don't see a problem with selling a customs to recoup expenses and maybe even make a few extra bucks. Customizing is an expensive hobby and selling some on eBay seems like a relatively harmless way to make up for it.
Still, I can't shake the inherent dislike for people that I see that seem to only customize so that they can sell on eBay. Some of these customs are really good, but I would much rather look at/admire a custom by somebody that I know gives back to the community as opposed to trying to attach themselves to eBay's latest favorite clone fad.
If a customizer is willing to give back to the community by answering questions, posting recipes, critiquing others' work, etc., then I do not have a problem with them selling their work. The only way that I feel it would cheapen the hobby would be if somebody was just lifting ideas off of the forums and then pump out half-assed customs with the sole purpose of selling them on eBay.
Of course, that's just my opinion on the matter; everybody is entitled to sell their work for whatever reason ... blah blah ... capitalist society ... they don't need to give back to the community ... blah blah, that's fine.
Personally, I feel weird whenever somebody asks me for a commission. I normally turn them down but give them fairly detailed instructions on how I made the figure, in case they want to try it themselves. I figure it's always better try to convert potential customizers than to just sell them one of my figures. I've only accepted one commission but I was so stressed out about the quality that it wasn't as much fun as when I make them for myself.
Again, Fritz, I say go for it. You definitely contribute a lot to the customizing community and if you need/want to sell some of your excellent customs, do it!
- Just a disclaimer - none of my comments were meant to be or should be taken as an attack on any member here, I was not referring to anybody on JD.com (or any of the other forums that I visit). All of the members here that I have seen selling stuff on eBay definitely contribute tons to the customizing community.
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I've been on both sides of this issue. I've sold a lot of customs (mostly all clones) on eBay. I did this so that I could help pay for my Star Wars habits. It was also a good way to get into the hobby, make a few mistakes and recoup some of my costs. I'm finding out that customizing as a hobby is as expensive (if not more than) my previous collecting habits. So anything I can do to defer the costs are good.
Unfortunately, most of my collections exist in rubermaid tubs in my basement, so I don't really get to enjoy my customs as much as I'd like. Therefore, in some aspects, customs that I've made a sold are probably being enjoyed by others more than myself. For me the fun part has been making them and not necessarily digging them out of the basement to look at them.
However, now that I'm more a part of this community (albeit a very new member) and as I've been branching out more with my customs (e.g. group projects) I find myself with mixed feelings. Some of the my newer customs I do for me and do not think I would sell. However, to be honest, I do think that I could make some again (in duplicate) and sell.
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I'll chime in that I don't PERSONALLY agree with selling customs. If we're talking ethics, it's simply an act that is infringing against another's intellectual property for profit which isn't "right" I guess... I don't personally care if people do though, if they are good members of the customizing community, as Gregorbian more or less stated. That to me is where selling customs becomes an irritant in my eyes and where I simply lose respect for the customizer.
When I was at C3, the www.FFURG.com booth busted ass to make this hobby better and show it off to a broader audience. There were a few people in the group who were camped out at the booth the majority of their weekend there, and they were doing that to simply better this hobby and get new people into it... They were representing this niche of Star Wars collecting to the mass Star Wars fandom community. You have to respect that, and that they did this on their time and their dime at the show.
And there's lots of guys who post their wares and share all their knowledge (recipes, techniques, tips, etc.) in all the various forums. The customizing community goes beyond one forum that way, and it's a big positive... However, like all hobbies there's people in there who really simply use the forums as a means of advertisement, which I don't care for on any site much less the two I work at to keep clean of this behavior... If you're only here to show your stuff and ask people how many they want to buy, you're not part of the community. You're a bootlegger, plain and simple, and I can't see anything to contradict that.
If you're here to share though, and perhaps sell stuff (from your own site), well that's your thing... And you are at least giving back by sharing how you did this or that, what your recipes are, what your tools you use are, etc... That's a positive. That doesn't make customizing sales "right" in my eyes as it is something that can be ceased if Hasbro wanted to... Hell they came down on Lego even, haha, but they've also swept through Ebay when they've felt like raising a stink... That's just my personal stance, I don't hold it against people on a personal level though so long as they are the kind of people who really give back to the hobby. I respect that... People who share knowledge, ideas, or help are always good to have in the hobby, so that's cool.
I think if you want to Ebay some things Fritz, I wouldn't personally disrespect you for it... I don't agree with it, but I also think you're pretty good in this hobby overall and you are helpful and add to the hobby. Even if I don't agree with you deciding to sell some stuff, I still think you're a good guy in the hobby and am glad to always check out what you make and I know you'll reply to any critiques or questions with positive thoughts. That's good man.
I hope that covers my opinion well enough without it being offensive or anything.
Oh, and there's also a secondary circumstance where you sell customs due to necessity. Sometimes you just NEED money... At that point I still hold firm to my belief it's not ethically "right", but at the same time I think when you have to do what you have to do to survive or whatnot, you may as well sell... Though I think when people get to a point they can't afford to live as they want to live and feel they "need" to sell this or that... I think it's time to re-estimate financial sitautions, budgets, etc... I'm not sure "funding" the hobby is such a great excuse since this is the same argument I see scalpers make about collecting... "Well I'm a collector and I only sell stuff so I can fund my hobby of collecting..." Well yeah, but that's still scalping (just making a general argument with this point). I'm not sure I agree then that you NEED to fund a hobby by selling customs, but again like I said, if you're adding to the community, if you're free with knowledge and tips... This changes my opinion some. I still view custom sales as not overall "good" or positive for the hobby, and customizing sales are what I believe has led to bootlegging, recards, frauds... Vintage collectors have often looked down on customizers for that reason and they have some basis for this.
At the same time though, as I said, good people in the hobby are appreciated irregardless of what they do with their customs generally. It's at least someone trying to build the community upward, instead of just taking from it what they can and not giving anything back. That's my stance on it... It's an old debate. I remember arguing this back in the 90's during the old listserver days, haha. It's been around as long as this hobby's had any sort of organization to it.
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I say go for it Rob. I've made a few commissions for people, and most of them have run smooth, but I don't particularly enjoy doing it. I just always feel that the person has expectations that I can't meet. I would rather make a custom the way I like, and if I decided to part with it, offer it either here or on ebay. I know that Owen D. recently went through a living hell with someone commissioning a project... I don't know how he does it!
So, in a nutshell, you are a very respected person in this community, always offer advice and input, etc. So go for it. If anyone looks down on you for it, well that's their opinion, but I say you have every right (and you can PM me the links).
:P
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For a different angle, and on a rather introspective (or perhaps just selfish) note:
(And I only offer the following from personal experience...)
If you view your custom as a labor of love (cheesey, I know), or as a work born of your creativity (which is what I define as art), then ANY time you take money for it, you RISK compromising yourself, your works, and your creativity.
But if you are stong in your LOVE of this hobby as a creative outlet, if the draw comes from the challenge, or art of it, then you're not taking too much of a risk.
Far beyond any thoughts about legality or creative 'property,' what concerns me most as an (self-proclaimed) artist is WHY I do what I do. I enjoy making visual representaions of what goes on in my head. I do it for ME.
If someone feels that my work is good enough to trade their hard earned money for, if they feel that the work that they do in life, to get that money, is worth trading for my art so that they can look at as often as they please, then so be it.
I may not 'own' it anymore, but it's still MINE. I created it. It is something new that I brought into the world that did not exist before. Even if it's someone else's design, even if it sucks, that's good enough for me.
But if you start cutting corners and stop putting your best care and creativity into your work, when you almost mass produce things just so you can turn a buck, you become no better than Hasbro or a scalper. That's the only difference, that I can see, between a wally wolrd factory and a craftman, (or between a Scalper and a collector who helps out other collectors).
Both create. Both sell a product. But only one loves thier work and can be truely proud of it and of themselves.
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PenDragon, that's a damn good explanation. I like it. So was Jesse's and everyone else's opinion.
Rob, I think you have the green light from the gang here. The best thing about it is that you have the respect for everyone here as you mentioned it here, asking our opinions.
:P
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Sell, sell away!
I've thought about doing that with some of mine, to get extra dough to pay for various things, including bills and more sw figures, but I haven't as of yet been able to part with them. Not because of any ethics concerns, but due to how much I like them and how much time went into them I can't justify it.
If I need extra money, it's worth more to me to just work a couple more hours a week. Whereas, for me to sell a quality product that I consider worthy of resale, it takes at least 5-10 hours to get it right. If I make 50 bucks including shipping off of 1 custom figure (that's a very high price for 1 figure on ebay, by the way), once I account for time taken both to acquire the figure, materials, packing materials, and actually create the figure --- I've made at best 8 bucks an hour if it only took 5 hours to make it.
I could cut down on costs by "mini mass producing" figures, but that would just turn the hobby I love into a job I hate. I would also have to reduce the quality of work that I put into each one, which I just CAN'T do. I'd make more money working at 7-11 part-time, anyway.
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Personally, I am against the selling of customs on ebay as a way to fund your hobby. It's the same as scalping, if that's why you're going it. You're basically taking advantage of people who can't sculpt/paint/etc - the same way scalpers take advantage of people who can't find new toys. Now I know that some of you will disagree with that outlook, but that's my opinion.
Now, you may think that this next statement contradicts what I just said: I don't see a problem with taking commisions from people to make specific figures. How is that any different, you may ask? I look at it like this: I make a Clone, because Clones are hot, and I put it up on ebay, and hope that the bidding goes up as high as it can. Like I said, basically the same thing as scalping - find hot figures, put them up on ebay, make money.
When a person contacts you about making a specific figure for them, first of all it is a customer who contacts you, not you making something to see how much you can get for it. You're also going to give that person a price before starting to create the figure. And if that person is okay with that, then that's okay.
To me, it's just too very different things.
However, if you have been customizing for a while, and just need to get some of your older works and want to put them on ebay, I don't see a problem with that. I know it sounds like I'm contradicting myself here by saying what I'm saying, but it makes sense to me :P
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Do it man what better way to restock on your supplys and support your hobby that you love so much. this way when you buy $60.00 star wars toys with the money that you made from a custom you don't feel so bad. ;D
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As usual Jesse seems to have taken the words right out of my mouth. :P I agree wholeheartedly with him. Especially when it comes down to the Scalping vs. Selling cstoms argument. I understand that someimes you need to sell one or two because you no longer have room for them or you no longer really like them, or I guess if some major finacial crissis came up. I'm not a fan of people who make figure just to sell them though, even if you say "But it is just to fund my hobby." As Jesse and Dave have already pointed out, that is the exact same argument. And from what little time I spent at the FFURG booth at C3 I saw all the effort Jason, Doug, Tim, Ash, and all the other guys put in. It was really cool to see guys that loved their hobby so much and were willing to spend so much time and effort trying to get other people involved.
That being said there are almost always exceptions to the rule. When CHEWIE sold some of his customs a little while back I wasn't in the least bit offended, he is such a great guy to have in this community and has done so much for it, and the figures were sold in lots of 5 for $25, he probably lost a lot of money, and that is based solely on parts and supplies, He had a good reasons to sell them though, so I have no reason to hold that against him.
Do it man what better way to restock on your supplys and support your hobby that you love so much. this way when you buy $60.00 start wars toys with the money that you made from a custom you don't feel so bad. ;D
As Jesse has already pointed out, I really don't see how this helps the hobby, in fact it probably hurts it, as well as collecting in general, a la the recards and repos. Like Dave said it really is taking advantage of those who can't paint.
BTW what are "start wars" toys? ;)
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As usual Jesse seems to have taken the words right out of my mouth. :P I agree wholeheartedly with him. Especially when it comes down to the Scalping vs. Selling cstoms argument. I understand that someimes you need to sell one or two because you no longer have room for them or you no longer really like them, or I guess if some major finacial crissis came up. I'm not a fan of people who make figure just to sell them though, even if you say "But it is just to fund my hobby." As Jesse and Dave have already pointed out, that is the exact same argument. And from what little time I spent at the FFURG booth at C3 I saw all the effort Jason, Doug, Tim, Ash, and all the other guys put in. It was really cool to see guys that loved their hobby so much and were willing to spend so much time and effort trying to get other people involved.
That being said there are almost always exceptions to the rule. When CHEWIE sold some of his customs a little while back I wasn't in the least bit offended, he is such a great guy to have in this community and has done so much for it, and the figures were sold in lots of 5 for $25, he probably lost a lot of money, and that is based solely on parts and supplies, He had a good reasons to sell them though, so I have no reason to hold that against him.
Do it man what better way to restock on your supplys and support your hobby that you love so much. this way when you buy $60.00 start wars toys with the money that you made from a custom you don't feel so bad. ;D
As Jesse has already pointed out, I really don't see how this helps the hobby, in fact it probably hurts it, as well as collecting in general, a la the recards and repos. Like Dave said it really is taking advantage of those who can't paint.
BTW what are "start wars" toys? ;)
What are you talking about? ;D
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Its always interesting when one of these 'selling on eBay' threads pops up and to see what everyones thoughts are on said topic.
I like to think I'm a pretty open person, I may feel and think one way but if someone comes along with a better way to see something, if its a sound reason theres always the chance I might change my stance. what I'm wondering is if those that are against selling on eBay can help me by guiding me through your line of thinking.
From what I understand (and have gathered from these posts), those that sell on eBay are taking advantage of those who can't paint. By that line of reasoning, aren't any sculptor/painter/carpenter etc etc taking advantage of others that can't do what they do?
I don't fully understand the scalper/eBay custom seller comparison either:( So someone who goes out and buys a base figure, spends any amount of time on that custom sculpting/painting/carding it, photographs it, puts it on eBay and sells it is the same as the loathesome scalper who goes and buys every single SA Clone Trooper when they first come out so they can go online and make a $10-20 profit?
I can see the individual customizers decision not to sell their work because its either made for them, or it has sentimental value, etc etc. but i struggle with the line of reasoning that flat out says that selling on eBay is bad and shouldn't be done under any circumstances.
What is the REAL problem people have with selling customs on eBay? Chewie, whom I respect a GREAT deal not only for his artistic ability but also his insightful comments on all customs he posts on, has listed customs on eBay. I haven't read one post that condemns what he did, it actually seems to get justified because his customs either sold for under $30 or he chose to sell them for less. I may be WAY off base here, (and i probably am lol) but it seems like an underlying tone is that its NOT ok to sell customs if you're getting a lot for them. . .but if you sell them for cheap than its ok, you're not ripping anyone off.
Again, i mean no disrespect to ANYone on these forums, I'm only trying to look for others to help me see their point of view.
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I've got to agree with Jesse and add that I personally don't think its worth selling customs on ebay. The amount of money I've received in the past just doesn't justify the work and hassle of ebay to me. Besides, the only thing that seems to sell well there is clones and I'm not going to make a clone just to cash in. I don't need the little bit of money I'd make from the sale of customs to make it worth it.
I would however love to have at least one custom made by each person that posts here. I've collected a number of customs over the years made by online friends that I admire their work. I think I would rather offer up some customs here to people at a cheap price (say $5) to free up shelf space for future customs.
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Well, I've read most of what you have all said and you all have good points. I don't have a problem with somebody selling anything on ebay. I don't really like seeing people make stuff soley to do that, but if you are going to say that's wrong, then you should be against artists selling their work too.
Anyways, I've sold lots of figures on here of custom figures averaging out at just $5.00 - I've lost my ass on them but thought it best to try and do that rather than risk someone going bonkers on me for selling something on ebay. I've only done it to clear out some older stuff, not to make a profit. And the custom lots that didn't sell, I ended up putting them on ebay, and sold most of them for twice or more than what my asking price here was...
Just go for it Fritz. People are going to have different opinions, some are going to say go for it, others will label you as whatever they want. It's great that you asked this question here, but ultimately it's your choice. And it's not the same as scalping to me; it's not like you went to all the Walmarts in your area and grabbed every AT-AT driver and then put them on ebay. Which, even if you did do that it's your God given right.
:P
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Capitalism
An economic system based on a free market, open competition, profit motive and private ownership of the means of production. Capitalism encourages private investment and business, compared to a government-controlled economy. Investors in these private companies (i.e. shareholders) also own the firms and are known as capitalists.
In such a system, individuals and firms have the right to own and use wealth to earn income and to sell and purchase labor for wages with little or no government control. The function of regulating the economy is then achieved mainly through the operation of market forces where prices and profit dictate where and how resources are used and allocated. The U.S. is a capitalistic system.
:P
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Capitalism
The U.S. is a capitalistic system.
Depending on the type of industry, that statement is debatable.
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Thanks for all the Great feed back guys. But I think some of you have missed my point. I don't belive I could ever possibly fund my hobby by selling Custom on ebay. I am an Army Builder and Spend Thousands of dollars every year on My Legions of Various troopers. I have been contacted by several members of our Custom Community about Commissioned Customs. But, the customs they are interested in are not simple repaints, they are time Consuming very detailed pieces of work. I would love to make everyone happy including myself. But commission Work is done on someonelse's dime and therefore the pressure of getting the Job done to their satisfaction takes the fun out of the Hobby I love. I thought ebay would be a better option because I could offer these customs up for sale to people whom asked for them without dealing with the preasures of putting a Dollar figure on your Art, or being told to revise it because your client is not happy with the results. And if the Sale of one Customs allows for me to Pay for the Material Cost of two or three Other customs a lot of the Guilt of spending Money on plastic toys is lifted off of my shoulders.
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Fritz, I think I understood your point. That's why I rarely do commissions either. Ebay is such a better route for someone like myself, or making something and then putting what I think is a fair price - not starting something from scratch based on a request from somebody. This thread right here illustrates why I don't do commissions -
super-long-link to the thread (http://threads.rebelscum.com/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=UBB7&Number=1601534&Forum=,f7,&Words=Owen&Searchpage=0&Limit=25&Main=1601534&Search=true&where=bodysub&Name=&daterange=0&newerval=&newertype=&olderval=&oldertype=&bodyprev=#Post160153)
I think that anyone thinking you were trying to do this to help pay for your hobby or make a lot of money missed the point like you said.
:P
edit: had to fix that super-long-link! Jeff[/color]
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I've sold customs on eBay before. :-[
Like CHEWIE, I didn't do it to make money (and I didn't make much around $5 a fig or less). I just wanted to get rid of a few of my older/simpler/boring customs. I got rid of figures that I had better verions of, figures I no longer wanted, and such. I needed to make some room for new stuf I was working on and to make some money so I could make it to C3.
I don't think that anyone should set out to make selling customs on eBay their main business - it takes something away from the hobby. But, occasionally selling stuff that you no longer want/need to generate some cash (which will no doubt be spent on more fodder for future customs)? Seems OK to me.
I guess it's all about the intent of the sale - kinda like Dave said. If you are doing it simply to make money, almost like it's your business, then it just doesn't feel right.
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Thanks for fixing that link for me Jeff. It was extremely long and annoying and I couldn't get it to link right on my own.
I really don't like when some people make stuff just for the sole purpose of selling it... but I guess in a way I do, as Owen D. makes commissions for me quite a bit, and commissions are most of his income from what I understand.
:P
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Though I have never sold any of my customs on ebay, I cant say weather I would or not. I have done a few comissions, but those were just for freinds, and though they offered me money to do so I didn't accept it. Personally, I dont see it as being wrong to put something youve made up for auction. I think it helps others who aren't as talented get something they will really enjoy.
I actually enjoy doing these and thats why I do it. Simply churning out customs for the sake of profit is not the way I would go. It would then become more of a job, and the joy just wouldn't be there for me anymore.
This is going to sound cheezy as hell, but as long as you can do this and still look in the mirror it shouldn't be a problem.
But thats just me. :P
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I’ve been thinking about this question a lot since I posted my response last night and I wanted to clarify a few things. First, although I’ve said that I have sold customs on eBay as a source of “funding the hobby” I don’t customize just to make money. If you break down the time it takes to make a custom figure and the resources that goes into it, you are making on the order of something like $5/hour for your efforts. There are much easier ways I could earn $5/hour. So I agree that customizing is not going to pay for all the bills. However, I agree with Fritz’s last point in that you can earn enough to pay for supplies for 2 or 3 more figures.
I don’t know everyone’s personal situation but I have a wife and two kids. My wife thinks my Star Wars “thing” is crazy and couldn’t possible understand why I would want to buy so many toys. “You need how many of those white colored toys?” So if I can sell a couple of custom figures to help me buy more toys, it keeps her off my back (at least for the time being). So in that essence, I’ve used customs to help “fund the hobby.”
Another point that was raised was does selling customs hurt the hobby in general? Until I saw custom figures on eBay, I didn’t even know there was this phenomenon of customizing toys. I was floored by the high quality of work that I saw there. As I did more research on some SW fan sites, I found out more information about this customization hobby. I attended C3 (my first fan convention) last year and one of the booths I wanted to see the most was the FFURG customs booth and NiubNiubs diorama area. I was only able to go to C3 for 1 day and I brought my 6 old son with me to soak it all in. He was a real trooper (no pun intended, he actually dressed like a Jedi) but he didn’t have the patience to allow me to sit down and create my little piece of the death star. I did however stand at the FFURG booth and do my first ever custom figure (head swap on an Endor Rebel Soldier), nothing fancy but I was hooked.
So far for me, the fun part has been in actually creating the customs. As I’ve said before, I don’t have an ideal place to display the customs, so many of my best figures are just sitting in my basement. So for know, the fun I have is in the creation of a toy that isn’t already available or improving on one that is.
Like I said before, I’m new to this community, I’ve only been posting here for about a month. I used to only get my custom “fixes” on another SW website and quite frankly, that site wasn’t very active on the customs front. I love all the work that I see here and I really enjoy the group that I’ve started to interact. I hope to continue to be regular. Even if I’m “one of those guys”, I’d like to think that I contribute the hobby as a whole even if I ask more questions than provide answers. I certainly hope that people are not shunned for selling customs on eBay. Don’t get me wrong; in reading through the responses to this thread, I don’t get that feeling. I would certainly agree with the majority that if people just started posting their customs in attempt to attract business on eBay, then that is likely detrimental to the community overall.
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Personally, I am against the selling of customs on ebay as a way to fund your hobby. It's the same as scalping, if that's why you're going it. You're basically taking advantage of people who can't sculpt/paint/etc - the same way scalpers take advantage of people who can't find new toys.
I like you, jokabofe, but that's one of the most ridiculous things I've ever heard. If I paint a custom and I put it on E-Bay starting at a reasonable price, and the bidding goes crazy, I not only deserve every penny of what I get for it, but I have in no way "taken advantage of people who can't sculpt, paint etc." I have created a piece of art...and if someone wants to pay me $100 for it, I've taken advantage of no one... I didn't force anyone to buy anything. Someone decided it was worth the price paid to have it. The market has decided the value of the item.
Furthermore, when it comes to "scalping..." while I think it's sleazy, I don't think anyone is being taken advantage of. It's not like someone buying all the food in a starving town and charging people ungodly prices for the basic survival necessities. It's a hunk of plastic, for god's sake...and you don't NEED it, and you're certainly not entitled to it just because you like it. You don't want to pay more than retail for a Commander Cody? Then get out there and find one at retail. Trade someone who has it. Get it from a friend on the boards who has two. But is John Q. Scalper gets to the store and all five are on the hook and he buys them, well, that's his right. You should have beaten him to them.
By your definition everyone who sold customs on Ebay a few months back for charity "took advantage of someone" even though it was for a good cause.
-DD
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OK, so I'm very new to the world of customs, but my opinion is much the same as many others have stated. Why are you selling customs? Is it purely to make money? Not so cool. Is it simply because you've gotten bored of the ones you have, or want to make room for other customs you love to make, or even a way to challenge yourself to make the best possible item you can? Cool by me. I don't really see selling customs as scalping.
Personally, I am against the selling of customs on ebay as a way to fund your hobby. It's the same as scalping, if that's why you're going it. You're basically taking advantage of people who can't sculpt/paint/etc - the same way scalpers take advantage of people who can't find new toys.
I like you, jokabofe, but that's one of the most ridiculous things I've ever heard.
Furthermore, when it comes to "scalping..." while I think it's sleazy, I don't think anyone is being taken advantage of. ... You don't want to pay more than retail for a Commander Cody? Then get out there and find one at retail. Trade someone who has it. Get it from a friend on the boards who has two. But is John Q. Scalper gets to the store and all five are on the hook and he buys them, well, that's his right. You should have beaten him to them.
Nope, that's a hell of a lot more ridiculous. While I disagree with Dave that selling customs is like scalping, I find your support of scalping quite disturbing. Scalpers take figures out of the hands of others who simply want to pay a retail price for a figure they like. Why should they have to go to the store every morning at 7am to beat John Q. ******* Scalper simply to get one without having to pay a higher price? Absolute hogwash.
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I had an entire, long winded response to your post typed out, but then decided against posting it. I'll just post this instead:
By your definition everyone who sold customs on Ebay a few months back for charity "took advantage of someone" even though it was for a good cause.
No. If you read my post, you would see that it says "Personally, I am against the selling of customs on ebay as a way to fund your hobby." How did my selling a custom clone on ebay a few months back, and donating ALL (i.e. 100%) of the auction end price to the Red Cross for Hurricane Katrina relief help me fund my hobby? It didn't.
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No, but by your own definition, the mere act of selling your custom meant the buyer (who may or may not have had any interest on where the proceeds went) was being taken advantage of by you, simply because he did not posess the skill to make the custom himself.
Your argument impunes the entire act of anyone selling anything, despite what caveats you might add. The supermarket takes advantage of me because I can't grow and harvest my own vegetables. Clothing stores take advantage of people who have no skill with the loom.
And JesseVader...nowhere did I say I support scalping or like it in the least. As a matter of fact, I made it clear I don't support scalping because I get out there off my ass and find what I want at retail. I just don't have the same crybaby mentality about it that most collectors seem to. You know why you should get up at 7 a.m. and get to the store to beat the scalpers? BECAUSE you want it at a fair price. If you choose not to do that, then you take your chances that you might not get what you want. You've made the choice that sleeping in is more important than you getting a figure you seek. The "scalper" made the opposite decision. Early bird gets the worm. Or do you feel that the world owes you plentiful figures on the hooks to be purchased at your leisure?
That would be nice, but so would having a little leprechaun that lives on our knee that occasionally reached up and patted us on the ass, making money magically come out of our mouth. It's just not reality. ;)
You say scalping "takes figures out of the hands of people who simply want to pay a retail price for the figures they like." Only if the scalper grabs it out of your hands after you found it on the shelf. If he got there first, he's entitled to buy whatever he wishes and you have no claim on it. Obviously, this doesn't include guys who pay employees to hold stuff for them so it never sees the shelf, and underhanded practices like that. But if it is on the shelf, it's fair game.
I find it funny collectors dare to take the high and mighty moral ground, when it could just as easily be said that children should not have to go without finding their favorite characters because men in their twenties and thirties feel the need to collect children's playthings. How many children have you deprived of even being able to get one clone because you were building an army?
You may not like it, (I don't like it much myself) but that's life and it doesn't owe any of us anything. You want something? Then be willing to work for it.
The funny thing is, I don't sell customs on E-Bay myself (except for the charity auction we did) mostly because I am far too attached to what I make. I do commissions for people, but I try to do it in trade for figures to increase my collection/fodder box because although I see nothing wrong with it, I'm personally uncomfortable setting a dollar amount on my work.
And I'm not slamming you guys too hard for feeling differently (well, not MUCH anyway ;D ) because I really do understand where you're coming from. Awhile back I thought Kryart was a jerk because my perception of him was that he just posted his admittedly amazing work to get more people to check out his auctions. However, I have since not only revised my opinion of him as he has become a more active member of our community, but also because it's none of my damn business, and I realized I was sitting in judgement not because of anything he did, but because I was acting holier than thou.
Bottom line, Fritzkrieg...you have the right to make whatver you want and get whatever the market will bear. Just be prepared for the holier than thou hobby nazis to pass judgement on you for it for not being as pure as they. ;D
-DD
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Well I hope this doesn't turn into any bad blood brewing, but it's clear that some of us have very different views on this. Kinda like politics! ;D
I must say though, that I agree anyone has a right to sell any item they own, buy whatever they want, etc. I dont' support scalping, but I don't worry about it. The stuff is out there if I want to find it. I've been beaten by scalpers to items before, but I've beaten them too, and have bought new figures to trade - and I know people do that too (isn't that in a way scalping, getting new figures for trade bait to get the figures you need??).
Anyways, there is a moral high ground that I know we try to achieve in a collecting community, but I do get pretty tired of people looking down on others just because they may not do things the same way. I believe in 'collect to collect' but some seem to think you are breaking some sort of law if you sell *anything* on ebay, buy a new figure that you don't really need, and some even get mad when others open or don't open their figures. Just differences of opinion... all different scenarios but still linked as these things always spark debate among collectors. And I find it interesting that the people in this section who post here a lot and show a lot of our work seem to have a different view than those that pop in occasionaly with a comment or the rare custom to show.
Kind of a funny story at least in my opinion... on Monday, I was at a local Walmart on my lunch break. I found an AT-AT Driver, Veers, and a Snowtrooper, left the rest. Just wanted another of each to open. While I was standing in line, some guy rushes up to me (saw him take about 10 big strides to get to me) - he jumps in my face and starts asking me questions -
(1) Do you collect those? - Duh
(2) How much are those worth? - $5.88 each...
(3) What are you going to do with them? - Open them...
(4) You open them? - Yeah...
(5) Why? - Because they're toys!
With that, he had the most confused look on his face that I've seen on a person in a long time... I felt like slapping some sense into him. But I just paid for my figures and told him to have a nice day.
My point is, sometimes there are people out there who don't understand your point of view. Maybe he was a scalper, maybe he was someone who likes to keep things carded, maybe he was just curious, or he may have been a lunatic, hell if I know.
But again, sometimes people have differences in opinion. While some of us disagree with what others are saying, we should respect each other's opinions.
:P
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The guy sounds mentally ill. What a bizarre story.
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Thanks for all the Great feed back guys. But I think some of you have missed my point. I don't belive I could ever possibly fund my hobby by selling Custom on ebay. I am an Army Builder and Spend Thousands of dollars every year on My Legions of Various troopers. I have been contacted by several members of our Custom Community about Commissioned Customs. But, the customs they are interested in are not simple repaints, they are time Consuming very detailed pieces of work. I would love to make everyone happy including myself. But commission Work is done on someonelse's dime and therefore the pressure of getting the Job done to their satisfaction takes the fun out of the Hobby I love. I thought ebay would be a better option because I could offer these customs up for sale to people whom asked for them without dealing with the preasures of putting a Dollar figure on your Art, or being told to revise it because your client is not happy with the results. And if the Sale of one Customs allows for me to Pay for the Material Cost of two or three Other customs a lot of the Guilt of spending Money on plastic toys is lifted off of my shoulders.
I can totally understand what you're saying. I would find it very difficult to try and create something based on someone else's expectations and desires. Like you said, I think it would be a lot more rewarding to create what feels right to you and see if others are interested in that creation once it's completed.
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... I felt like slapping some sense into him.
I'm all for passivity, respect, and an ernest attempt to put myself into other people's shoes ... but you totally shoulda! :D
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I get that same reaction from people all the time. Mostly it's people who really don't have a clue about the hobby, and have just heard from someone that toys are "worth something."
The people that ask "Are those worth anything?" get a variation of the response I gave a kid years ago when I ran a comic book store. He held up an issue of "Youngblood" and asked "How much is this worth?" To which I responded, "It's worth cover price to me, but if you read it and enjoy it, then it's priceless." He went away very confused.
There's not a purchase that goes by where I don't get either "Are you a collector?" or "You must like Star Wars!" I just smile at this point and humor them. Sometimes I tell them I'm a customizer and explain what that is, but if I don't have time I just make something up to satisfy them.
"I work for 'Troopers for Tots' and these are all going to a children's hospital in Lima, Peru."
Or something equally ridiculous off the top of my head.
Oh, and for the record, I wasn't trying to slam either JesseVader or Jokabofe in my responses, and I didn't take offense to anything they said. Still friends, guys? :P
-DD
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Sometimes I tell them I'm a customizer and explain what that is,
I tried doing that once. Once. ;)
That's a pretty funny story CHEWIE, that doesn't really happen to me too much though; I guess I look like somebody that would still be buying toys into my 20's... :-\