JediDefender.com Forums
Community => Watto's Junk Yard => Topic started by: Brian on May 28, 2008, 03:57 PM
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I was just wondering what is everyone's opinion of George Lucas? Sure, we all make the various jokes about George - but I've noticed (again recently with the new Indy) that a lot of people seem to blame him for anything wrong with these movies. Granted, a lot of this probably started with TPM, and I think that Indy will suffer from that same sort of backlash as the fanbase seems to be really split on this recent movie. TPM is probably more negative overall, but I can see the same type of situation. Anyways, back to Lucas, what do you think of him really? I guess, even though I don't agree with everything he has done/does (which you could say of everyone), I've always had some respect for him as he's been responsible in the creation of two of my favorite franchises (Star Wars and Indy). With Star Wars in particular, he's really come up with what I think are some great characters/designs (obviously, with the help of many others). Watching some of the specials (such as Empire of Dreams, or George Lucas' biography) recently again, its kind of nice watching those old days when he was working to first get Star Wars made - and then moving on to the rest of the OT. As many people in those specials say, it is astonishing how he pushed movie making and special effects (and other areas) into a different realm.
Overall, I guess I am thankful for the ideas that George Lucas has brought to the big screen. Star Wars (and also Indy) were movies that really had (and continue to, obviously) a big impact on my life and I never get tired of watching them. Although I don't like the prequels as much as the OT, I still enjoy them for the most part (ROTS in particular is very good) - and I guess I've never been one of those "George Lucas raped my childhood" type of people. Like I said, I'm not trying to be an apologist for Lucas - he's made decisions that we've all questioned - but I don't quite get the overall hatred some people seem to have for him. Granted, a lot of it comes from online - where people are more passionate with their opinions and can be anonymous if they so choose - and some of it might be the fact that he does seem to be a stubborn person (he says as much I think) and treats things as "his movies" and does what he wants with them. Just reading reviews since KOTCS was released last week, I've seen/heard a few instances of "you can tell Lucas got his hands on this part", or "Spielberg should have kept Lucas out of this" when referencing anything they disliked in the movie. Anyways, I was just curious how people really feel about George Lucas and his contributions. Is he more likely to deserve "credit" or "blame"?
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I'll try to keep this clear and not rambling.
I'm pretty ambivalent towards George Lucas. Don't know him as a person, only through his movies and his businesses. I feel that on a personal level, he seems like somebody that would be extremely fascinating to talk to (and not just about his movies), or to just have as a buddy. As a filmmaker, I do wish he had a better appreciation of the place his original films hold in the hearts & minds of his fans. I think he had very good intentions when he began working on the OT:SE, but it should've only been an experiment and not a replacement. The original message coming out of Lucasfilm that the OOT films were apocraphyl and should be ignored was a huge PR mistake. Then, when he began working on the PT, I believe he had simply lost the touch -- and that happens to all of us, can't blame the guy for that. His error has been in not recognizing what so many people see as obvious missteps in his films. From the cutesy, fart jokes; to the ham-fisted love story of Anakin/Padme; to the dreadful death/birth scene at the end of ROTS, George did not put the professionals in place to help him make good decisions and he has to take the blame for that. It's not a mistake to dream up Jar Jar, but it is a mistake to not get a true second opinion.
As a whole though, I gotta give the guy props for creating Star Wars, and releasing the reigns for ESB. Those two films and the Luke/Vader struggle in ROTJ are the saga for me, all the rest is just the fat that I cut away from the meat and give to the dog, so to speak.
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I guess I'm torn on Lucas. In part I'm thankful for the notion that he started those same two franchises you mention Brian - great concepts to be sure. At the same time I'm frustrated with a lot of stuff of late.
On the plus side the man is obviously fairly imaginative and creative and still is. He's given some pretty good movie ideas out there that have been hugely successful. But I still remember being at CIII around the convention center before it started and the dude running around the "Thank the Maker" pins. Well, yeah, I do every time I buy something, but I'm not about to put on a pin and worship the dude. He's just a very creative and very successful guy that I really know nothing about.
On the negative side, I'm inclined to think he's a touch arrogant and a really crappy director. I've never thought of him as a particularly great director anyway, more as a great creative mind/idea guy. You can certainly detect what seem to be "George moments" in movies which now seem contrived and forced. In the early Indy/SW movies the fun stuff seemed natural (R2-3PO banter; romance between Han/Leia; Indy humor) while the later stuff is just forced, boring, lame (later/earlier R2-3PO banter, the hideous "connection" between Anakin-Padme). I take those to be signs of weaker direction or a change over the years and trying to replicate what isn't really there now.
I'm also fairly miffed when he goes back to change things in movies. Yeah, they're his property, I know. And I actually appreciate going back and cleaning up lots of the technical aspects of the original movies. But I really see no need of revisionist history to make the OT and PT fit, or changing aspects of the OT to be more politically correct. Dude, you got rich because of the originals, leave well enough alone. I just don't see the need and it all feels to Turner-ish with the colorization of classics. Blech.
For the most part though, I don't care, much as he doesn't seem to care about the fan base. Intellectually the movies are his property to do with as he pleases. So be it, I'll enjoy the originals. I really don't give the guy that much thought usually.
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On the negative side, I'm inclined to think he's a touch arrogant and a really crappy director. I've never thought of him as a particularly great director anyway, more as a great creative mind/idea guy. You can certainly detect what seem to be "George moments" in movies which now seem contrived and forced. In the early Indy/SW movies the fun stuff seemed natural (R2-3PO banter; romance between Han/Leia; Indy humor) while the later stuff is just forced, boring, lame (later/earlier R2-3PO banter, the hideous "connection" between Anakin-Padme). I take those to be signs of weaker direction or a change over the years and trying to replicate what isn't really there now.
Those are good points Brent, and kind of express how I feel on the negative side of Lucas as well. I think, particularly after the OT success, that he maybe has become more arrogant. Plus, I've always looked at him more of a really great creative mind/idea guy. Your examples of the natural fun stuff of the OT (and Indy) compared to the more forced examples in the PT are right on the money. Its been said before, and is a whole other discussion, but for as much as I can still enjoy most of the PT - it doesn't feel as "Star Warsy" to me as the OT a lot of times. Not trying to bash the prequels, I enjoy them too, but they never feel quite the same to me.
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Good thread Brian. I was going to start up a thread like this. It's funny how we seem to hate everything that comes out of LucasFilm but we continue to see the movies and buy the toys. Why? Why are we buying thousands of clone troopers from a series of movies we hate? Why are we buying multiples of every Indy figure if the franchise sucks? It's strange how the internet fan boy will find fault in everything but continue to loyally support it.
You see the same kind of love/hate relationship going on over at the Disney forums. People criticize everything Disney and the Imagineers build and do but continue to buy everything Disney and go to the parks. The haterid for anything Imagineers build has finally gotten the Imagineers upset enough to speak out about how everything they do is always wrong. Yet the studies they do with the people that actually go to the parks shows the Imagineers are doing things right.
The same thing is happening with Lucasfilm. If people actually hate the prequels and Indy, why do these franchises make so much money? Why are they so successful? I think in large, Lucasfilm has figured out to pretty much ignore the internet fanboys and go with the sales figures for how well they are doing. I think Disney is starting to do the same.
The internet fanboys have no one to blame except themselves for being so two faced. If you don't like the movies, don't buy the marketing tie-ins (ie toys). The corporations will figure out something is wrong when they can't sell to their market and will make changes. Right now Lucas and Disney have no reason to change.
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I think he's a great story teller and has some wonderful ideas in his head. I think he's not very good at writing scripts and he definitely is not the best director out there.
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I think George Lucas is a genius. And a geek.
I don't think he's one of the best writers or directors but he's a great idea man. Have you ever met someone that was incredibly smart but maybe wasn't the most savvy person when it came to interacting with the "normal" people or dealing with some basic common sense stuff? I think that's him to a certain extent.
One of my favorite quotes from Armageddon is by Bruce Willis' character when he says " You're NASA for cryin' out loud, you put a man on the moon, you're geniuses! You're the guys that think this **** up!" Lucas is the guy that thinks **** up and for that he's really good. And in order to pull off what he's dreamt up, he surrounds himself with some of the best people in the business. If it weren't for his ideas on Star Wars we wouldn't have ILM and probably a lot of films that have been possible due to the software and techniques that they've invented over the years.
If he would have explained his vision for the prequels but then let someone else write and direct it I think they could have been better. The themes and events didn't have to change, but the dialog could have been better and with a different director could have come across much better. Still, I really enjoy the Prequel Trilogy, even TPM.
As for the ideas in KotCS, they were pretty good IMO. The dialog seemed natural throughout the film and the actors seemed to have fun. That's the input of Spielberg and Koepp (who wrote the screenplay). I can only imagine what it would have been like if Lucas had written and directed. Sure, there were a couple things about it I didn't like but I can't say for sure that they were due to Lucas sticking his finger in the mix. After all, Lucas, Spielberg, and Ford all had input on the story, I'm sure if Spielberg and/or Ford had any huge problem with some aspect they could have overruled Lucas on it. So I'm not going to blame any parts of Indy that I didn't like on just Lucas.
If Lucas were to sit around and think **** up and then turn it over to trusted writers and directors I think he could churn out hit movies from now till he decided to stop. But writing and directing his own stuff? I'm not sure. It'll definitely be interesting to see what happens with the Clone Wars cartoon this year and the live action show when/if it comes around.
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I think he could stand to lose some weight. His neck looks terrible.
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He's an excellent idea man, writer, and editor, but not so great of a director. I kind of feel that, during the making of Return of the Jedi, he became more interested in being a businessman/making a buck than in storytelling. Whether that buck came from action figures/toys or ILM, LucasArts, and the like with the technologies they've created is open to interpretation.
I guess he might feel a little painted into the corner by Star Wars and Indy, but they're popular, so just as well make all the cash off of them you can while you can. I'd be doing the same thing in his position.
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I always wonder this to. How much does the "fan" really hate whatever it is they are complaining about? For instance I don't like a lot of things with the prequels but for the most part I like it overall. There are elements I don't like and some that I cringe at but I don't "hate" those films or "hate" the elements. They are not my favorite. I wish they could have been better but I am okay with it in the end. It's a movie or series that I like/love so I continue to buy from it. Even though a lot of people gripe about the prequels I bet most of them went out and bought the movies and watched them a zillion times. Of course they go out and buy the toys as well.
As far as Lucas himself goes. I like him for the most part. He is definately a creative and sucessful person. Most of his moves make him that much more richer. It's kind of hard to argue with the success he generates. People act like he is dumb but yet his films gross hundreds of millions of dollars and so does the merchandise. I wish I could be that "dumb". Yeah, I wish he would do things differently, but overall I am fine with the prequels and the new Indy film. They are certainly entertaining films to view. No they are not the best stories ever told but for the most part they are fun to watch. I think there must be a vast number of people that agree with that or the films and merchandise would not do that well.
He does come accross as arogant at times but for a billionaire he seems like a pretty decent guy. I wish he had a better attitude about the original Star Wars trilogy. Why he does not is very odd to me. Anyway I don't worship the guy at all, but he is hardly the idiot that people seem to try and make him out to be. I am okay with him.
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I think that George Lucas is one of the most creative individuals in the world today... or at least that has made it "big." And his success is because of a combination of creativity, hard work and even some luck.
There's some things that I would have done differently with the prequels (and the OT for that matter) but I think that everyone would have done things their own way... it's kind of funny actually when people say "Lucas sucks" though because they really don't have a leg to stand on... honestly - who on Earth has outdone him? Nobody.
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I think that George Lucas is one of the most creative individuals in the world today... or at least that has made it "big."
All his creativity must live in that neck.
(http://images.usatoday.com/life/_photos/2006/09/19/george-lucas.jpg)
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I think that George Lucas is one of the most creative individuals in the world today... or at least that has made it "big."
All his creativity must live in that neck.
Funniest thing I've read all day. Nicely done, and much props to you sir!
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Here's the deal;
He's past his prime. Lucas had his day, but he's never been the same since his divorce and the start of his family. Creatively, no doubt he's lost his edge. It happens with age. However, there is no reason why we can't celebrate the accomplishments of a man who, to this day, still holds an extraordinary vision.
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You know what I admire about him? With all of his money, he could have surgery to take care of that neck, but he doesn't! The dude is bold!
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http://www.forbes.com/2008/09/15/400list08_all_slide_73.html?thisSpeed=15000
Well, we know were he got all that, from you, and you, and you, and you, and you, and you, and you...................
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I was recently watching some of "Empire of Dreams" (which I really enjoy), and it got me to thinking about this topic again. It seems like, at least for the most part, that the original trilogy of movies is looked upon pretty fondly by fans and the general public. The prequel trilogy seems to vary wildly, with some really liking them - some hating them - and some liking parts here and there. A lot of that difference is often blamed on Lucas, and I was curious what everyone thinks "went wrong" from the OT to the PT. Was Lucas to enamored with all the digital goodies? Was it because he was directing (as opposed to handing that off to people like Kershner and Marquand in the OT)? Was it because of the writing/story - or the characters? Is it the fact that maybe in the OT years, he wasn't surrounded by as many "yes men" as he possibly is these days? Anyways, lots of question marks there, but I was curious what you guys think changed between the OT and PT days with Lucas? Although it may have just been due to the lack of an "internet community", it seems like Lucas was pretty well thought of in the 70s/80s - even early 90s, but that opinions seems to have mostly changed these days.
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The original trilogy was epic, following the traditional hero arc. The story was fairly basic, the characters were standard archetypes. With this basic framework, the characters were able to really connect with the audience and capture their imagination.
The prequels are a mess about politics and corruption. The focus on Vader, from annoying brat to whiny teen, alienated the audience. The plot was confusing and dull. And he cheapened the OT by finding ways to toss in popular characters in critical roles in ways that didn't make sense. If was just poorly executed from start to finish. I think the people who "love" it just enjoy the visceral thrill of the lightsaber battles, which were excellent. But almost everything else is flat.
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I think his big problem is that after he created the coolest thing in the history of mankind, the OT movies, his ego got so big he thinks everything that comes out of his mind is also that great and he won't take "no" or "maybe you should do that differently" because to him if it is from him it must be the best.
I also believe he and Hasbro owe me a lot of money.
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I guess this fits in pretty well here. I haven't heard a whole lot about this movie, but there is a new trailer up for it:
The People vs George Lucas (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aoc3roT81nU&fmt=22)
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I think he's insane for owning so many golf carts - oh and for ******* up what would have been three awesome prequel movies. Damned fool.
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I guess this fits in pretty well here. I haven't heard a whole lot about this movie, but there is a new trailer up for it:
The People vs George Lucas (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aoc3roT81nU&fmt=22)
You can also have your chance to contribute to the film and let the world know just how you feel (http://www.peoplevsgeorge.com/).
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I personally think he deserves more credit than blame. We wouldn't be posting a star wars forum or collecting any of this stuff if not for George. Regardless of whatever else he does wrong, you can't take that away from him. I think what he successfully did was to hit on a great story premise with state-of-the-art effects for its time. Beyond that, I think a lot of the credit belongs to concept designers and other contributors to both the films and the EU universe.
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I was looking through the "25 movies we want on blu ray" feature at IGN, where I first started thinking about people's opinion of Lucas again. Although the prequel trilogy (http://bluray.ign.com/articles/938/938562p23.html) is listed at #3 on their most wanted list, the commentary within really seems scathing towards Lucas - and I was wondering if that is what the general fanbase truly thinks of the man at this point. Anyways, just ran across it again this morning and thought I'd pass it along.
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It's apparently fashionable to hate on Lucas like people hate on the Yankees or the Cowboys. He's America to the fanboy's al Queda, the Jerry to their Tom, Road Runner to their Coyote. Without him, none of them would exist, but they haven't figured that out yet. He gives purpose to their lives but they're loathe to admit it.
The fans, more than anything Lucas (or, since this is a collecting site, Hasbro or any other license holder) has done, ruin these films and this hobby for me. I love the SW films and many of the toys and collectibles out there, but spend 20 minutes on, specifically, the otheR Site's forums and not only does it inspire homicidal rage, but also sours my opinion of this entire universe.
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The fans, more than anything Lucas (or, since this is a collecting site, Hasbro or any other license holder) has done, ruin these films and this hobby for me. I love the SW films and many of the toys and collectibles out there, but spend 20 minutes on, specifically, the otheR Site's forums and not only does it inspire homicidal rage, but also sours my opinion of this entire universe.
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Brilliantly said.
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Yeah, I do think there's a lot of truth to that as well. There is a bit of a "mob mentality" with the internet, and it seems that fanbases in general (not just Star Wars) tend to complain about every little detail of their favorite franchise (whether its comics, SW, Joe/Transformers, etc.) Heck, I've even seen people that came out of one or more of the prequel movies excited, only to continually see (either online or in general media) people "hating" on the same movies - and eventually come around to agreeing with the masses.
That being said, obviously some of Lucas' decision making might seem flawed with the prequels, and I can see where some complaints come from. At the same time, I don't really understand the "hate" for Lucas, like he's purposely trying to piss us off. Just like with the general population, I think his contributions to the original trilogy stories is starting to get overlooked. He may not have the touch he once did, or has too many "yes men" around him now to tell him differently, but those Original movies are magic to me and many others. I like the prequel movies for the most part, they just "feel" totally different to me than the Star Wars I knew before. That being said though, I don't know that anything could have lived up to the OT - short of having sequels with that same cast shortly after Jedi was released or something (and even then it probably wouldn't be the same). One thing I've noticed in some reviews/opinion pieces over the past few years (like the IGN one I posted above) seem to lump Revenge of the Sith in with the other prequels as being "horrible". I thought that ROTS was fairly well accepted, even among the fan community.
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I think that anyone who expected the Prequels to be as good as the originals is diminishing how awesome the originals are and how difficult it is to make something that awesome.
I'm not going to hate on Lucas. I enjoy the prequels because they are Star Wars and they still brought more story to light, but I think some of there flaws weren't just because it's difficult to have the magic of the originals. A lot of it was because George has too many yes man and a gigantic ego.
There are certain parts of the prequels where I literally cringe because the dialouge is so bad. And I don't think all the people in on making this movie missed it. I think George got an idea in his head and that is what he was going to do no matter what. So if people want to criticize him for that they can. He isn't immune just because he made the originals so good.
All in all, of course, we all need to be very thankful to George for bringing so much enjoyment into our lives, Ep 1-6 and everything else that goes along with it. The fact we are so critical about it shows how much we love it.
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There are certain parts of the prequels where I literally cringe because the dialouge is so bad. And I don't think all the people in on making this movie missed it. I think George got an idea in his head and that is what he was going to do no matter what. So if people want to criticize him for that they can. He isn't immune just because he made the originals so good.
I've noticed that too. I've been rewatching the prequels lately when they have been on Spike TV, and there are some moments that are really cringe-worthy. There are a lot of parts of each movie that I enjoy a lot, and I find few faults with ROTS in particular, but certain portions of dialogue (in AOTC in particular for me) bother me every time.
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Hey, per NPR today is the birthday of George Lucas. Happy Birthday George! Buy yourself something nice!
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Sort of related to this topic, so I thought I'd post it here. I don't know if anyone saw it, but George Lucas was on the Daily Show last night...you can check out the clip HERE (http://www.galactichunter.com/absolutenm/templates/full_article_template_1.asp?articleid=8666&zoneid=2).
He specifically talks about "three generations" of Star Wars fans. The ones that grew up with the OT, the younger generation who "loved" the PT, and the current group of kids that are into the Clone Wars and in some cases haven't even seen the movies. Granted, he was generalizing, but he mentioned how the OT group didn't like the prequels, the prequel group doesn't like the OT, and also again, the CW group maybe not being familiar with the movies at all. I know there are likely a lot of kids out there that fit into that group, and we've discussed it here before, but it is hard to believe there are kids who are Star Wars fans that aren't even familiar with Vader being the "big bad"....the whole "I am your father" twist...and other OT goodness.
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My sons are totally into the Clone Wars series now and started off with EP1 being the only movie they watched for a while just because I thought they were a bit too young for the other ones. Now they've seen all of the movies with the exception of ROTS. When it comes time for them to pick a movie to watch, they always go for ESB or ROTJ. They haven't watched TPM or AOTC for a while.
Even though they are young, they understand that Anakin turns to the dark side and becomes Vader and that Luke is his son. They keep begging me to watch ROTS, but I don't want to deal with the nightmares so I'm holding off on that one for a while.
I think that George, as usual, is a bit out of touch with reality.
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George has been out of touch with reality since his divorce in the '80s.
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George has been out of touch with reality since his divorce in the '80s.
Nah, it was LONG before that. lol
And at least the out of touch with reality gave us SW. So I'm cool with the ol' boy.
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He is completely forgetting the group that likes the OT pre-Special Edition...... you guys are right he is out of touch with reality...
I kid of course, I love Mr. Lucas and all the great things he has done for us as a community (PS, please don't send the thought police or Lucasfilm lawyers after me/us).
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Sort of related to this topic, so I thought I'd post it here. I don't know if anyone saw it, but George Lucas was on the Daily Show last night...you can check out the clip HERE (http://www.galactichunter.com/absolutenm/templates/full_article_template_1.asp?articleid=8666&zoneid=2).
We're sorry, currently our video library can only be streamed in the United States so if you live outside this country you have to search places like Youtube or do a damn Google search & find it on thedailyshow.com where you will have to click the damn link to see the video in your country.
The Daily Show with John Stewart - George Lucas, January 5, 2010 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JJ_v1jh99t0)
George Lucas Tells Star Wars Fans "It's Not Real" (http://www.thecomedynetwork.ca/Displayblog.aspx?bpid=e06a2b60-c553-40cf-ac45-4c1a2212b0cd)
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What I do find funny is the comparison the Lucas telling fans it's not real being akin to Shatner telling ST fans to "Grow Up." (Albeit that was on a SNL sketch, but you just know Shatner meant it.
Really I don't see Lucas's interview as anything but him being real. He has no illusions of what SW really is. While it's an iconic movie franchise and does move people in odd ways, at the end of the day they are movies. It's the fans that have taken it to a whole other level. That's why we're fans. The term fan was born of the word fanatic or fanaticism. Think about that for a minute. Lucas isn't fanatical about SW. He doesn't need to be, he created it. He doesn't need to be the number one fan of the franchise because he can mold and change it as he sees fit, which he's done now on many more than one occasion.
I think sometimes it's some fans who are way over the top and out of touch, not Lucas. Mind you not all fans.
Heck, I'll admit I was over the top a few years ago with my army building. Thankfully I've been floating back down to earth and reality (as well as saving a ton of scratch in the mean time).
Give Lucas a break. He's just a person like anyone else. He just happened to be able to capitalize on his ideas.
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George Lucas took all of our money and he needs to be stopped.
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I think Lucas was out of touch for a wile, but after Pahntom Menace he started to see things differently. I thought he was very funny, and seemed like a nice guy in the Stewart interview. In fact, Lucas seems more down to earth every time I see him. The fact that he even does talk shows shows that he's aware of how other's see him. He's still one of my biggest heroes. He did things his way.
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George Lucas producing a CGI musical! Featuring ... fairies? (http://www.heatvisionblog.com/2010/01/george-lucas-cgi-musical-kevin-munroe.html)
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Article on CNN.com today about a new documentary coming out called The People vs.George Lucas (http://www.cnn.com/2010/SHOWBIZ/Movies/03/11/george.lucas.documentary.ew/index.html?hpt=Sbin)
They have an interview with the director about his thoughts on Lucas as well as some info about the film. Might be an interesting thing to watch.
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George... Hmm, he seems like a mixed bag to me - don't get me wrong, he seems like a great guy! He seems friendly and genuine.
On a professional level, however, he doesn't seem to have too much self-confidence. I'm not sure which Star Wars film it was, but didn't he hand over the reigns to a different director because he wasn't sure how fans would handle it if he (George) directed the next movie himself? Also, whenever critics pick at stiff dialogue (I will admit that there are a handful of flat lines in ROTS), George always tends to agree with them and go to say that his writing skills aren't the best. He also prepared that the original 'Star Wars'/ANH was to be a box office failure - and it wasn't! I think the man needs more self-confidence, especially being that he changed the entertainment world and made some of the best movies EVER. Period! He's captivated so many peoples' imaginations, he definitely deserves respect and needs to earn confidence in himself - at least IMHO.
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Myself I've always been able to separate the person themselves from the professional identity they may hold.
e.g. Tom Cruise; I do not like him as a person but do own some of his movies that I liked his performance in.
I was a young child in the early 80's and do not subscribe to "George Lucas stole my childhood" line that gets bandied around by so many so-called SW fans.
Seeing TESB in the old style cinema in my city was awesome for me and I believe inspired my passion for the saga and now in 2010 I admit that the prequels have many many flaws but still I can appreciate it as a whole and am glad they were made at all rather than the backstory left untold.
Lucas did break new ground with the OT in flimmaking and inspired many others to do great work also plus the amazing galaxy with it's interesting characters,vehicles,concepts (like the force) he showed us all.
Over time his talent has diminished to make good SW films as is evident in the PT however I am glad for them all as they give a lot to me as a fan and I bear in mind no movie is actually perfect by definition.
So I would thank GL if I met him for the saga and how much it's entertained me.
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Georgie Does Good (http://stars.ign.com/articles/111/1110726p1.html)
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Where do I sign up as a charity?
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I like how they have a picture of him and the caption is "George Lucas and Friend". Did they not know that was Steven Speilberg?
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I noticed the "People vs. George Lucas" documentary must have been released on DVD this week, as it was on the new release endcap at Target. Is anyone planning on renting this and/or picking it up? IGN gives it a pretty good review here:
http://dvd.ign.com/articles/121/1210666p1.html (http://dvd.ign.com/articles/121/1210666p1.html)
Although I don't think I need to own it, I wouldn't mind seeing it.
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I saw it at a Film Festival here in Denver last fall. I actually really enjoyed it and thought it managed to do a pretty good job of presenting all sides, and it is fairly humorous. I'd recommend it to everyone here, it is certainly worth watching.
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I had breakfast across from the guy on my honeymoon with my wife in Walt Disney World's Grand Floridian in January 2001. Seemed like a good guy up close. I couldn't bother him as he ate his breakfast with on of the daughters and Jett. Nobody went up to him the entire time except, of course, the waitress and it's not like they had him roped off or security was standing next to him. I woulda just thanked him for a childhood full of memories and wished him luck on Episode II. He checked out that day. Waitress said he was the nicest guy and had eaten in the restaurant, 1900 Park Fare, every day of their vacation.
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"People vs. George Lucas" is on Netflix and I watched it last night, I thought it was awesome and really conveys the whole story rather well. The movie really focuses on the SEs and TPM and not so much on the other two Prequels or the Clone Wars.
I'm not a huge Lucas hater by any stretch. I don't necessarily like all of the changes that were made from the OT originals but I really don't care that much.
I still hold out hope for more movies down the road and I think someday it will happen (ala Abrams Star Trek) maybe not for a while though
As was said in this thread and in the movie, kids love the Prequels, both of my boys favorite SW movie is AOTC and it isn't even close. I again am not a huge Prequel hater, I still prefer the OT and from a space standpoint have decided to stop collecting Prequel crap but I'll still enjoy them
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"People vs. George Lucas" is on Netflix and I watched it last night, I thought it was awesome and really conveys the whole story rather well. The movie really focuses on the SEs and TPM and not so much on the other two Prequels or the Clone Wars.
Always wanted to see that. I remember watching the trailers and thinking it looked pretty interesting. We don't have Netflix, but might have to track it down at some point.
Sort of related, I saw this article at IGN today regarding Lucas and his "retirement". Sounds like he's hired Kathleen Kennedy (from all the Spielberg movies, etc.) as co-chair of Lucasfilm, and he is supposed to be phased out over the next couple years (we'll see). Who knows if much will really change, but it is interesting what this could mean to the future of SW stuff:
http://www.ign.com/articles/2012/06/01/whos-replacing-george-lucas-at-lucasfilm (http://www.ign.com/articles/2012/06/01/whos-replacing-george-lucas-at-lucasfilm)
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I saw Ppl v GL the other day on Netflix also. I loved the clips of fan films they included and made sure that there was far more love than hate.
Two questions:
I can't recall any changes to Empire Strikes Back that caused any kind of fan backlash. Certainly nothing like Docking Bay Jabba, Han Shooting 2nd, Disco/Jazz Jabba's palace remix, new Ewok celebration song... Were there any bad additions to Empire?
Did the movie end with the conclusion that if George Lucas released the original Theatrical versions of episodes IV, V & VI on Blu Ray the fans would be satisfied?
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The Wilhelm (justified) and Vader's "shuttle" line (much ado about nothing) come to mind. To me, I don't loathe the SE's but I just don't understand why he just doesn't relent and release the originals as alternate discs. He'd make gigantic bank and win the good will of many.
I don't get a lot of the hate, but I just can't understand the stubbornness either.
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From what they say in the movie that they destroyed the original films when they made the SEs and can't go back.
I know they released the Original Editions in 2006 as a 2nd disc (transfers from the Laserdisc set) and I have those and for now, that is all I need. Sure they aren't super duper cleaned up and all that jazz but I don't really care that much about any of that stuff.
They neglected to say that in the movie
ANH (http://www.amazon.com/Star-Wars-Two-Disc-Widescreen-Theatrical/dp/B000FQJAIW/jedidefender-20/)
ESB (http://www.amazon.com/Star-Wars-Episode-Versions-Widescreen/dp/B000FQJAJG/jedidefender-20/)
ROTJ (http://www.amazon.com/Star-Wars-Versions-Two-Disc-Widescreen/dp/B000FQVX78/jedidefender-20/)
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I can't imagine that the original elements have been destroyed. That is a total LFL excuse. They do mention that in the film.
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Just read this editorial this morning, thought it made some good points:
http://www.actionfigureinsider.com/ottertorials/2012/06/29/george-lucas-was-right/ (http://www.actionfigureinsider.com/ottertorials/2012/06/29/george-lucas-was-right/)
I also have my problems with the prequels, but after introducing our daughter (turning five next week) to the majority of the Saga (minus a chunk of ROTS, and a few other scenes elsewhere) - you really are reminded that these movies are for kids. Although she does prefer the original trilogy (her favorite seems to alternate between ANH and ROTJ for the most part), she likes the prequels and CW stuff as well, and I don't think kids see the problems that we do when viewing them (although she does get a little bored during all the senate mumbo jumbo in TPM). Interesting point about how comics decided to age with the reader, and how the majority of their audience is 30-50 year olds, but that is another topic altogether.
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I finally got around to renting People v. Lucas recently and found it pretty entertaining, especially since I'm of the older generation who grew up on the originals and have a tough time stomaching the prequels. I don't know if I necessarily agree that these flicks "are made for kids" though, at least not 2.5 of the 3 OT movies. Much of the prequels, perhaps. The prequels and some of ROTJ were definitely made with the toy licensing towards kids in mind too though, which is unfortunate. I've pretty much concluded that George Lucas went to crap when he had/adopted his own kids however. I think Lucas had a kid's wonderful sense of imagination and creativity during the making of the OT, but then dumbed everything down 10-fold when he started looking at the saga through the eyes of his own kids, losing any sense of his own personal vision in the process. Very sad.
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From what they say in the movie that they destroyed the original films when they made the SEs and can't go back.
I know they released the Original Editions in 2006 as a 2nd disc (transfers from the Laserdisc set) and I have those and for now, that is all I need. Sure they aren't super duper cleaned up and all that jazz but I don't really care that much about any of that stuff.
They neglected to say that in the movie
ANH (http://www.amazon.com/Star-Wars-Two-Disc-Widescreen-Theatrical/dp/B000FQJAIW/jedidefender-20/)
ESB (http://www.amazon.com/Star-Wars-Episode-Versions-Widescreen/dp/B000FQJAJG/jedidefender-20/)
ROTJ (http://www.amazon.com/Star-Wars-Versions-Two-Disc-Widescreen/dp/B000FQVX78/jedidefender-20/)
I can't imagine that the original elements have been destroyed. That is a total LFL excuse. They do mention that in the film.
From The Secret History of Star Wars: Saving Star Wars: The Special Edition Restoration Process and its Changing Physicality (http://secrethistoryofstarwars.com/savingstarwars.html)
. . .Since the negs themselves can't be physically altered, the restoration's final product must have been a new IP with correct coloring. Whenever films are color-timed, it is the Interpositives from which theatrical prints work from--original negatives do not contain any color-timing information, so whenever a release goes back to the original negatives, all the color-timing is lost and the film must be re-timed from scratch all over again. It is doubtful that an entirely new negative was struck from the corrected IP for Star Wars, which might explain why Lucas enacted a second color-timing effort in 2004 when he returned to the original negatives.
Had the film remained like this, we would have a restored version of Star Wars, perfectly matching the original release but with pristine quality, even to the point where it was better than what could have been possible back then (as with the higher quality optical transitions). However, this was only part of the process of making what was eventually called "The Special Edition." ILM was working on many dozens of new shots, and an even larger amount of enhanced shots, using digital effects to re-do, expand, re-edit and otherwise alter many scenes in the film. When these were completed, they apparently were printed onto film and re-cut into the negative, replacing the original negs, which were undoubtedly put back into storage. As a result, the negative for Star Wars is filled with CGI-laden modern alterations. When Lucas says that the original version physically does not exist, this is what he really means--the negative is conformed to the Special Edition. Of course, it would be very easy to simply put the original pieces back and conform it to the original version, or use the separation masters and IPs, or simply scan the old pieces for a digital restoration, but I digress.
(snip)
. . .It is also incredibly hard to imagine that Star Wars will never be restored to its original version. Perhaps it will take Lucas' passing to see this enacted--or perhaps not, given that he allowed the original versions to be released on DVD in 2006, even if they were just Laserdisk ports. In any case, I would be willing to bet a good amount of money that in some years in the future efforts were made to somehow save the original version of Star Wars--from Lucas himself, it may seem, as his Special Edition would have to be somehow worked around in gathering original elements. The negative could be re-conformed to its original configuration, using the original, saved pieces, but this is problematic due to handling issues (and losing more frames). When Robert Harris restored Godfather last year, he had to do it entirely digitally, saying that if any pin-registered mechanism were to touch the negative it would crumble. In Star Wars' case, using scans of the separation masters is perfectly viable, and though IPs and Technicolor prints are not ideal for masters they could be usable if cleaned up digitally. Perhaps the easiest option would be to simply follow the 1997 restoration pattern but in the digital realm: scan the negative in 8K, then scan the stored pre-SE shots or re-comp them, and fill in any damaged areas with IPs or separation masters, reconstructing the original cut, then digitally remove dirt and damage, and finally use a Technicolor print as a color reference for the Digital Intermediate created. Such a product would be theatrically viable, as pristine as when it had been shot, and 100% faithful in image and color to the original release.
The pricetag of doing a project like this would likely be under a million dollars. Jim Ward claims that Lucasfilm sold $100 million in DVDs in a single day when the refurbished Star Wars films came out in 2004, and while this figure might not be replicated (though in my opinion it probably would, if given a comparable marketing campaign) clearly there would be worthwhile profit. One day, I predict this process will happen, but that day does not seem to be anywhere in the near future. It will remain to be seen if the negative to Star Wars is in a salvageable state by the time this happens or if it has become a brittle relic, faded to black and white. It wouldn't be the first time the negative of a famous film has been lost--Criterion's restoration of Seven Samurai, for instance, does not work from a negative, nor did the gorgeous 35mm print of Rashomon that toured theatres this year. With fine-grain masters, IPs, and Separation masters available, the negative need not be the only source for a new master.
Backlash has, of course, occurred because of all this drama. The last dedicated release of the original version was a Laserdisk and VHS in 1995 (using the 1985 IP, which was then mastered in THX, according to Into the Digital Realm--the in-progress restoration couldn't be used for this release because it was still in-progress). By 2006, originaltrilogy.com had petitioned over 70,000 signatures to get the original versions released, and while the Laserdisk-port release of that year was at least admission of defeat of Lucas' crusade to erase the originals from existence, it also frustrated fans and experts alike, especially since the release wasn't even anamorphic (as the Laserdisk wasn't). When a letter-writing campaign reached Lucasfilm they responded by saying that the Laserdisk was the best source for the originals--which it would be without having to spend money, that is. Robert Harris, the man who had hand-restored Vertigo and Lawrence of Arabia, and later The Godfather, went on record saying he knew there were pristine 35mm elements available for use, and offered his services to restore the film. Lucasfilm did not respond. The efforts of fans and professionals like these will probably result in the aforementioned restoration at some point, if only for the callousness of making money, but it seems that day is not today.
The story of Star Wars' negative is both the story of advancing technology and the story of Lucas' ego. Showing how fragile negative film can be, how all sorts of old-fashioned tricks and the most advanced of analog technology was used to photo-chemically restore the elements, which were then embellished by select digital pieces in the infant technology, like some kind of emerging cyborg; by 2004, the film had been entirely consumed by digital technology, existing only as a digital negative. At the same time, a crusade of revisionism took over, moving from a project to preserve Star Wars so that future generations could see it, to an enhanced anniversary celebration for the fans that Lucas could use as an excuse to play with emerging digital technology, to finally a consummation of his prequel storyline and a nail in the coffin for the original version that so many had loved and that had given him his empire in the first place, while the quality of the negative itself seemed perpetually sliding downward in resolution.
Jim Ward!
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I wasn't sure where else to post this, but when my wife was looking up the video to Gotye's 'Somebody I used to know', I happened to notice this gem as a suggestion:
'The Star Wars that I used to Know' parody song.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qJlbPXZEpRE
My favorite lyric, 'Have your friends direct your movies and they'll turn out better!'
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I wasn't sure where else to post this, but when my wife was looking up the video to Gotye's 'Somebody I used to know', I happened to notice this gem as a suggestion:
'The Star Wars that I used to Know' parody song.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qJlbPXZEpRE
My favorite lyric, 'Have your friends direct your movies and they'll turn out better!'
That was awesome!
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That video was so damn good.