JediDefender.com Forums
Multimedia => The Sequel Trilogy => Topic started by: Diddly on June 20, 2014, 04:59 PM
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I guess it's already time for a thread for Episode VIII since things are already rolling along for it.
Rian Johnson to write, direct Episode VIII (http://variety.com/2014/film/news/rian-johnson-to-write-direct-next-two-films-1201226481/)
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Who? :-\
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Who? :-\
Director of Looper and a handful Breaking Bad episodes. Not a lengthy resume but I enjoyed Looper, so I look forward to seeing what he does with Star Wars.
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I really love Brick, and Brothers Bloom was really great too, but I'm not sold on the idea of Rian Johnson being the guy to take over Star Wars unless JJ Abrams is still going to be heavily involved.
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I really love Brick, and Brothers Bloom was really great too, but I'm not sold on the idea of Rian Johnson being the guy to take over Star Wars unless JJ Abrams is still going to be heavily involved.
Agreed re: taking over for JJ Abrams.
The only thing that this news report has me concerned about is that maybe Disney execs aren't happy with what JJ is doing and have plans on him being a one-and-done director.
Almost seems like they should be looking over to their corporate-cousins at Marvel and take what that team is doing RIGHT and put a Kevin Feige-type person in charge of the whole thing.
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I doubt Disney is unhappy. Even if Johnson does end up taking over, I'd bet my left arm that Abrams stays on as executive producer.
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I liked Looper quite a bit more than I expected to. I am ok with this so far.
This will give the ST a chance to have a different feel from episode to episode. That is good, it gives us another chance at a really wowing experience like ESB turned out to be. Not to make too many undue comparisons, but the two Trek movies were very similar, and the second couldn have used a fresh approach IMHO.
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Episode 8 Update: (http://www.starwars.com/news/rogue-one-is-the-first-star-wars-stand-alone-film-rian-johnson-to-write-and-direct-star-wars-episode-viii)
"Iger confirmed that Rian Johnson will write and direct Star Wars: Episode VIII. The film, which continues the saga after the events of Star Wars: The Force Awakens, is set for release on May 26, 2017 — forty years and a day after the release of Star Wars: A New Hope in 1977. Johnson is widely considered one of cinema’s most gifted young filmmakers, having directed the modern sci-fi classic, Looper, as well as Brick and The Brothers Bloom. He was also behind the camera for three episodes of the critically-acclaimed TV series Breaking Bad, including “Ozymandias,” which series creator Vince Gilligan named as the best installment of the show. Kathleen Kennedy and Ram Bergman, producer of Looper, Don Jon, Brick, and The Brothers Bloom, are on board to produce."
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Hopefully, Disney and Hasbro are smart enough to have a movie line for episode 8 and one for the 40th anniversary of A New Hope.
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Hmmm, tough to do two lines at once like that though, I'm afraid.
I dig the timing though, and I think that kind of movie release date, for Star Wars, just makes more sense than December. I hope they stick to it, ultimately. I've not been wild about the December release.
All the story leaks and spoiler crap that is going to be flying around, with a movie every year, is going to be ridiculous I think.
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Going to be a busy month with whatever Marvel movie is coming out at the beginning of the month.
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It'll be a busy start to 2017 for sure - Disney has 3 big sequels in a six week span...
05-05-2017 - Guardians of the Galaxy 2
05-26-2017 - Episode 8
06-16-2017 - Toy Story 4
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‘Star Wars: Episode VIII’ Eyes Benicio Del Toro to Play Villain (http://www.thewrap.com/star-wars-episode-viii-eyes-benicio-del-toro-to-play-villain-exclusive/)
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It'll be a busy start to 2017 for sure - Disney has 3 big sequels in a six week span...
05-05-2017 - Guardians of the Galaxy 2
05-26-2017 - Episode 8
06-16-2017 - Toy Story 4
That doesn't seem smart to me, but what do I know. Wouldn't you want to stagger that a bit more?
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Benicio del Toro sounds like he is confirmed to be in Episode VIII (http://www.msn.com/en-us/movies/news/benicio-del-toro-confirms-star-wars-episode-viii-villain-role/ar-AAdVcsS?ocid=U147DHP). And principal photography commences in March of 2016.
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Rumors that Hayden Christensen will be back to reprise his role in this and Rogue One.
Seems to be some nerd-rage going on in reaction to this. ::)
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Hayden needs the work. And he's been in the suit before. It's a physical acting role, and not one where Hayden would have to voice dialogue. That's James Earl Jones' job.
Now if he's being cast to play a Force Spirit Anakin Skywalker in Episode 8? Then I can appreciate some of the concerns people might have. But if Anakin as a Force Spirit is integral to the story? You can certainly speculate however you want. From the trailers it seems that someone in the Sequels is a devotee to Darth Vader, seeing how the melted Vader helmet & mask are set up as an object of worship. Recasting the Anakin role would damage any sense of continuity
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Benicio del Toro sounds like he is confirmed to be in Episode VIII (http://www.msn.com/en-us/movies/news/benicio-del-toro-confirms-star-wars-episode-viii-villain-role/ar-AAdVcsS?ocid=U147DHP). And principal photography commences in March of 2016.
Crossover with the next Guardians of the Galaxy movie? :-X
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Hayden needs the work. And he's been in the suit before. It's a physical acting role, and not one where Hayden would have to voice dialogue. That's James Earl Jones' job.
Now if he's being cast to play a Force Spirit Anakin Skywalker in Episode 8? Then I can appreciate some of the concerns people might have. But if Anakin as a Force Spirit is integral to the story? You can certainly speculate however you want. From the trailers it seems that someone in the Sequels is a devotee to Darth Vader, seeing how the melted Vader helmet & mask are set up as an object of worship. Recasting the Anakin role would damage any sense of continuity
Since Force ghosts are immortal in movie cannon (the in five years it gets too hard like in the Thrawn trilogy was taken out in ROTS), I fully expect to see Yoda, Anakin and Obi-Wan as force ghosts.
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Maybe he'll return to chastise the Imperials for holding their last stand after Endor on a planet full of sand. :P
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People can't expect the last 3 films to just be forgotten... No clue why anyone would be angry. It is what it is, and should've been expected to a degree.
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Hayden needs the work. And he's been in the suit before. It's a physical acting role, and not one where Hayden would have to voice dialogue. That's James Earl Jones' job.
Now if he's being cast to play a Force Spirit Anakin Skywalker in Episode 8? Then I can appreciate some of the concerns people might have. But if Anakin as a Force Spirit is integral to the story? You can certainly speculate however you want. From the trailers it seems that someone in the Sequels is a devotee to Darth Vader, seeing how the melted Vader helmet & mask are set up as an object of worship. Recasting the Anakin role would damage any sense of continuity
Couldn't they just make a digital version of Hayden as a force ghost instead of actually hiring him? It would be a lot more realistic.
Since Force ghosts are immortal in movie cannon (the in five years it gets too hard like in the Thrawn trilogy was taken out in ROTS), I fully expect to see Yoda, Anakin and Obi-Wan as force ghosts.
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He probably has to talk at some point Paul!
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They can use the guy that did Anakin's voice for the Clone Wars.
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I know that we are still in the midst of the EP7 release and resulting euphoria, but I read this this morning and had to share my feeling of dread:
Veteran Star Wars writer Lawrence Kasdan said in a recent interview that Johnson is going to make "some weird thing" with Episode VIII. If you've seen Rian's work, you know it's not going be like anything that's ever been in Star Wars," Kasdan said. "You couldn't have three more different people than JJ, Rian, and Colin [Trevorrow, director of Episode 9]. Those movies will have the Star Wars saga as their basis, but everything else will be different."
I'm really hoping that the Executive Producers don't let it get 'weird' and stick with the success they have going with EP7. Fingers crossed. 17 more months to go...
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Yeah, that sounds troubling. :-\
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Yeah, that sounds troubling. :-\
Agreed.
While I'm excited about being only 18 months away from EP8, I'm concerned that a weird, green-screen driven movie is going to make people think less OT and more PT.
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I'm not overly worried. Look at what they've done with Marvel. They spent $4 billion on Star Wars...they are not going to **** it up.
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I saw a quote from Greg Grunberg the other day. As some know, he and JJ Abrams are friends. In the quote Grunberg said that JJ likes the script for Episode VIII so much that he wishes he were directing the movie.
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Who is writing 8 and 9? Is it up to the directors to do what they want, or is there a fairly set script that they're allowed to tweak slightly, but not significantly?
I know JJ is an executive producer, but I hope there is someone who is overseeing the overall continuity of these movies.
I think its mostly okay for the anthology movies to get a little weird, but I'm hoping there is a clear vision for main Star Wars movies.
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I'm sure they are following the Marvel formula. Kathleen Kennedy and the executive producers have an idea on where the story will ultimately go, and they give direction to the writers and directors on how to get there.
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I think its mostly okay for the anthology movies to get a little weird, but I'm hoping there is a clear vision for main Star Wars movies.
Exactly. I'd rather see them try some new stuff with the Spin offs versus messing with the main line films. I'm sure there's enough people involved with approving it that they can't mess it up too bad.
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I'm sure they are following the Marvel formula. Kathleen Kennedy and the executive producers have an idea on where the story will ultimately go, and they give direction to the writers and directors on how to get there.
I hope they don't follow it too closely, that Marvel stuff has gotten so stale it's nearly unwatchable. Every movie is the exact same thing at this point.
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Rumors have been circulating about the possibility of Hayden Christensen reprising his role as Anakin Skywalker in the new sequel trilogy. Check out THIS VANITY FAIR ARTICLE (http://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2015/12/hayden-christensen-star-wars-the-force-awakens-anakin) which offers up some possibilities about how Anakin might be portrayed as a Force spirit.
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I'm sure they are following the Marvel formula. Kathleen Kennedy and the executive producers have an idea on where the story will ultimately go, and they give direction to the writers and directors on how to get there.
I hope they don't follow it too closely, that Marvel stuff has gotten so stale it's nearly unwatchable. Every movie is the exact same thing at this point.
??? Really? They all have a very different feel to me. Even the fringe stories that should bomb (Guardians, Ant Man) have been fantastic and huge box office successes. What don't you like?
I think Matt is comparing the basic things principles across the movies. Lots of action mixed with a little humor and characters that don't take themselves too seriously. It seems to be working pretty well for them so far.
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And Lando's back! (http://www.bostonherald.com/entertainment/movies/movie_news/2015/03/billy_dee_williams_to_make_star_wars_return)
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It's not Star Wars without a scoundrel in it.
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Episode VIII Officially Delayed until Dec 15, 2017 (http://www.starwars.com/news/star-wars-episode-viii-to-open-december-15-2017)
Today, Disney and Lucasfilm announced that Star Wars: Episode VIII, originally scheduled for release in summer 2017, will now debut on December 15, 2017.
The move follows the extraordinary success of Star Wars: The Force Awakens, which was the first Star Wars movie to premiere outside the traditional summer blockbuster window and smashed numerous records, including biggest domestic and global debuts of all time as well as the biggest domestic second and third weekends, en route to becoming the highest grossing domestic release of all time with over $861.3 million and the third biggest global release ever with $1,886.7 billion.
Written and directed by Rian Johnson, Star Wars: Episode VIII is currently in preproduction and will begin principal photography in London next month. Kathleen Kennedy and Ram Bergman will produce and J.J. Abrams, Jason McGatlin, and Tom Karnowski will executive produce. Stay tuned for exciting updates in the coming weeks.
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Can't tell if I'm bummed at waiting an extra 6 months to see Ep8 or if I'm glad they'll have more time now to really get it right.
Also would like to know more about the decision... can't tell if it's based on a desire to separate Disney's dominance (Marvel blockbusters in the Summer, Star Wars in the winter) or if it's a direct shot off the bow of Avatar 2, which is currently scheduled to open ten days after Ep8 now (Dec 25, 2017).
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If it helps them deliver a better movie, I'm all for a later release. And it also looks like Disney wants to own the summer with Marvel and Christmas time with Star Wars.
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From a movie perspective I really don't care when they release it, so long as its done well.
From a toy perspective I would much prefer to have them release it in May, or any time other than December. With Disney/JJ's desire for secrecy and the close proximity with Christmas, it turned out that the toy release time frame was way too compressed. I'm sure Hasbro did their best, but you're asking for trouble if you're trying to hold half of your movie based toys for the week before Christmas.
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I like it myself. It is also smart from an economic standpoint. I bet Avatar 2 gets "delayed".
I originally wanted TFA to maintain the May release schedule, but the December release allowed me to see it several more times due to my annual end of the year vacation. Rogue One has a December release, so I say stick to the December releases for the Disney Star Wars movies.
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Rational Me: This move is for the best. Allows for them to finish the rewrites (rumored to expand new character roles) and make a better overall movie and trilogy. Plus it gives Avengers and Guardians of the Galaxy 2 room to breathe, and I thing Toy Story 4 is out that summer too. Plus there was something cool about having a week off at Christmas and being able to go see a Star Wars movie in theaters as much as I wanted.
Irrational Me: DAMMIT CAN'T YOU DISNEY CLOWNS DO ANYTHING RIGHT?!? I COULD LITERALLY BE DEAD BEFORE THIS NEW STORY ARC COMPLETES. HOW THE HELL HARD IS IT TO MAKE A BLOCKBUSTER MOVIE?!? NOW WE DON'T HAVE A STAR WARS MOVIE TO CELEBRATE THE 40TH ANNIVERSARY OF THE FRANCHISE!!!!! STOP RUNNING THIS FRANCHISE INTO THE GROUND YOU FOOLS.
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My big question is, will they make Episodes X, XI, and XII? I am going to guess that Episode VIII and IX won't beat TFA at the box office if they follow the pattern of the past two trilogies. With a December release, it may be different.
After Episode IX, we are supposed to get another anthology movie, that has yet to been announced. Ewan McGregor has said he wants to play Obi-Wan again. There have been rumors of an Obi-Wan trilogy, but I wonder how they would make that happen with Obi-Wan supposed to be living on Tatooine.
Back in the Lucas days, which he claims he never said, there was talk of both nine and twelve episodes. I believe the twelve episode plan involved two trilogies based around Luke, Leia, and Han with the Emperor showing up in the second of those trilogies. At this point, I would think another trilogy would focus around Rey rebuilding the Jedi ten or so years down the road from the current trilogy.
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Episode VIII Officially Delayed until Dec 15, 2017 (http://www.starwars.com/news/star-wars-episode-viii-to-open-december-15-2017)
Today, Disney and Lucasfilm announced that Star Wars: Episode VIII, originally scheduled for release in summer 2017, will now debut on December 15, 2017.
The move follows the extraordinary success of Star Wars: The Force Awakens, which was the first Star Wars movie to premiere outside the traditional summer blockbuster window and smashed numerous records, including biggest domestic and global debuts of all time as well as the biggest domestic second and third weekends, en route to becoming the highest grossing domestic release of all time with over $861.3 million and the third biggest global release ever with $1,886.7 billion.
Written and directed by Rian Johnson, Star Wars: Episode VIII is currently in preproduction and will begin principal photography in London next month. Kathleen Kennedy and Ram Bergman will produce and J.J. Abrams, Jason McGatlin, and Tom Karnowski will executive produce. Stay tuned for exciting updates in the coming weeks.
Somehow I kind of called that. So maybe then Episode IX of Star Wars will be December of 2019.
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I am starting to see reports that Avatar 2 "won't be finished in time" for a December 2017 release. Imagine that.
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The most important thing is getting it right. I find it hard to believe they will finish it off and just sit on it for six months, so they'll be doing some kind of improvement I'm sure with the extra time. That's a good thing. What actually bothers me most about it though is losing the tradition of May releases. All of the movies outside of 7 were released in May and for some reason that timing feels special to me. That tie into the end of the school year/start of Summer kicking off with Star Wars just feels right. Nice to have some fun Christmas blockbusters, but I wish they were back on a May release schedule for this one.
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Irrational Me: DAMMIT CAN'T YOU DISNEY CLOWNS DO ANYTHING RIGHT?!? I COULD LITERALLY BE DEAD BEFORE THIS NEW STORY ARC COMPLETES. HOW THE HELL HARD IS IT TO MAKE A BLOCKBUSTER MOVIE?!? NOW WE DON'T HAVE A STAR WARS MOVIE TO CELEBRATE THE 40TH ANNIVERSARY OF THE FRANCHISE!!!!! STOP RUNNING THIS FRANCHISE INTO THE GROUND YOU FOOLS.
Remember when it was THREE years between star wars films back in the day?
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The anthology movies really make the wait between saga films a lot easier to deal with. Especially since it seems like things with the new saga are going to be far more secretive than during the prequel era.
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??? Really? They all have a very different feel to me. Even the fringe stories that should bomb (Guardians, Ant Man) have been fantastic and huge box office successes. What don't you like?
I think Matt is comparing the basic things principles across the movies. Lots of action mixed with a little humor and characters that don't take themselves too seriously. It seems to be working pretty well for them so far.
Sorry, I missed this somehow until now... I didn't see Ant Man yet, but I did really like Guardians. When I say they've gotten stale I mostly mean the Avengers and all the individual movies that go with them. Thor, Thor 2, Captain American 1-3, Iron Man 1-3, Avengers 1 and 2... they're all blurring together to me. Especially the last few I've watched (Winter Soldier and Avengers 2). It seems like Hulk and Hawkeye and Black Widow just keep showing up to show up... the stories seem to be getting less exciting...
To me at least. I'm just hoping Disney finds enough ways to differentiate the films from each other - to really let the one-off's be legitimate one-off's. Guardians is a good example of things that still work better, and I don't think it feels as problematic to me mostly because it has nothing to do with those other ones.
Just my 2 cents... Star Wars always left people wanting more, with 2 or 3 years between films, and then 10 or 15 years between trilogies. My fear is that we get a movie a year for the next 10 years and everyone just gets completely sick of it and it gets really hard to keep things as exciting as they are at this point in the game.
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Well as Lucas says Disney is a bunch of white slavers. They will bleed it dry.
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Sorry, I missed this somehow until now... I didn't see Ant Man yet, but I did really like Guardians. When I say they've gotten stale I mostly mean the Avengers and all the individual movies that go with them. Thor, Thor 2, Captain American 1-3, Iron Man 1-3, Avengers 1 and 2... they're all blurring together to me. Especially the last few I've watched (Winter Soldier and Avengers 2). It seems like Hulk and Hawkeye and Black Widow just keep showing up to show up... the stories seem to be getting less exciting...
To each their own I guess. I grew up with a monthly sub to Avengers comics, so I'm sure I have a bias towards seeing these characters on the big screen. The first Iron Man and Avengers were amazing films IMO, so I can see where sequels to these might be a let down. Each of the first "individual" movies was an origin story, so I don't really see any of those as re-hashed with the sequels. Thor 2 felt a little more like the first Thor to me, but all of the others have been really different from my point of view...
- IM2 gets War Machine in on the act and they have to battle both Whiplash and HAMMER industries' Iron Man drones. Both are classic Iron Man baddies and they complemented each other versus being forced into the story like we've seen with Spiderman.
- IM3 has Tony building out a plethora of his own unique Iron Man suits (awesome to see in itself), but also did a great job adding some character to the story when he goes off the grid for a while, panicking about the new super hero life he's taken on. This a terrific lead in to Avengers 2 and why he even builds Ultron
- Cap2 has the boy scout betrayed by the government he's so loyal to, which is more great character building. The fight scenes in this one were amazing and it introduces a really great take on Falcon. Nice lead into Civil War as well
- Cap3 guessing you didn't really see this since it doesn't exist yet, but Civil War pits the heroes against each other, which is another really original concept. We see some earlier bickering among the heroes, but not as anything serious.
- Avengers 2 has a really unique villain in Ultron - being the first real baddie that the team needs to join together to beat. Two new characters and a surprise death, with almost the whole team turning over by the end.
- Ant-Man easily cleared my top 5 for Marvel movies and has a very different feel again with more of a redemption story than the others.
I guess I just don't see what's stale about any of these. The characters and storylines are meant to intertwine, so it feels like one really big story with a lot of fun chapters. I even read the comics these movies are mostly based off of and felt the stories were pretty original, but like I said earlier, maybe I'm just too much of a fanboy.
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I guess I just don't see what's stale about any of these. The characters and storylines are meant to intertwine, so it feels like one really big story with a lot of fun chapters. I even read the comics these movies are mostly based off of and felt the stories were pretty original, but like I said earlier, maybe I'm just too much of a fanboy.
I can see it both ways. People who loved the comics/characters are of course going to love the universe-building and the stories. Your analogy is a good one - a big story with lots of new chapters... but that's only interesting as long as you are someone who wants new chapters.
But, there are a lot of people on the other side who are looking for a new book. My wife for example is pretty bored of the Cap/IM/Thor centered Marvel movies now. I'm kind of hitting a little bit of a wall too, which is why I probably enjoyed Ant-Man and GotG more than Avengers 2 at this point and why I'm looking forward to stuff like Black Panther or Dr. Strange a lot more than Cap 3 or Thor 3.
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I guess I just don't see what's stale about any of these. The characters and storylines are meant to intertwine, so it feels like one really big story with a lot of fun chapters. I even read the comics these movies are mostly based off of and felt the stories were pretty original, but like I said earlier, maybe I'm just too much of a fanboy.
I can see it both ways. People who loved the comics/characters are of course going to love the universe-building and the stories. Your analogy is a good one - a big story with lots of new chapters... but that's only interesting as long as you are someone who wants new chapters.
But, there are a lot of people on the other side who are looking for a new book. My wife for example is pretty bored of the Cap/IM/Thor centered Marvel movies now. I'm kind of hitting a little bit of a wall too, which is why I probably enjoyed Ant-Man and GotG more than Avengers 2 at this point and why I'm looking forward to stuff like Black Panther or Dr. Strange a lot more than Cap 3 or Thor 3.
You nailed it for me Jeff. I'm more in Rob's camp than Justin's, but I've never read any Marvel superhero comic in my life.
Loved GotG and some of the earlier Mavel stuff (Iron Man 1 & Captain America), but was thoroughly bored with Iron Man 3 and Cap 2.
I'm hopeful that the Star Wars anthology stuff largely stands on its own and doesn't try to intertwine too much. The stuff in the works (Rogue One) and the proposals (Han Solo, and potentially Boba Fett and Kenobi movies) sound like they could be fairly independent if they wanted them to be. Although I guess there is a danger that the Han Solo and Boba Fett movies turn in to an intertwined mess.
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I was absolutely 100% not a fan of comic books (just weren't my thing growing up) so the movies maybe have a different impact with me than people who genuinely are fans.
I really enjoyed the Nolan Batman movies, but the 3rd one felt pretty bad to me and I left disappointed.
I liked the first Spiderman but anything after, just didn't interest me.
I liked all 3 Iron Man movies but the 3rd one kind of was like the last Batman movie and left me a little disappointed.
I've never sat through the Avengers movies, and I couldn't sit (tried) through Captain 'Murica... I really just didn't care for them when I tried watching those. Likewise I couldn't deal with the X-Men movies much either and couldn't sit through them.
I don't know why I liked Iron Man but couldn't get into the rest of it?
I didn't catch Antman, but I did watch Guardians of the Galaxy when it came to Starz and I absolutely LOVED that film. Great, and left me wanting to see more. It was funny, weird, exciting... A little confusing, but really I enjoyed it completely and look forward to more there. I'd also like more Iron Man on his own I think despite the 3rd film. I'd have liked more Nolan Batman too but meh. :(
I'm maybe the wrong guy to critique stuff since again, I really didn't like super heroes when I was little. That's just my take on them. Nothing's perfect. I wholly suspect some of these Star Wars films will be complete ass at some point. As it stands it's not like I didn't have some critique (minor) of TFA... So I am keeping my expectations fairly even on any of them. It may suck, it may not.
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Nice tease from Daisy Ridley on her Instagram account today (https://www.instagram.com/p/BBFFr2NlEwL/?taken-by=daisyridley). It looks like an Episode VIII letterhead with a note from Kathleen Kennedy to the cast & crew.
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I was absolutely 100% not a fan of comic books (just weren't my thing growing up) so the movies maybe have a different impact with me than people who genuinely are fans.
(snip)
I'm maybe the wrong guy to critique stuff since again, I really didn't like super heroes when I was little. That's just my take on them. Nothing's perfect. I wholly suspect some of these Star Wars films will be complete ass at some point. As it stands it's not like I didn't have some critique (minor) of TFA... So I am keeping my expectations fairly even on any of them. It may suck, it may not.
Cosign. Was never a comic book guy. I liked the Nolan Batmans, but all the other superhero films can FOAD. The prospect of Star Wars becoming the new Marvel frightens the **** out of me.
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What we really need is a live action TV show.
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The prospect of Star Wars becoming the new Marvel frightens the **** out of me.
Maybe it's just IBS.
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What we really need is a live action TV show.
I've thought, if it was as well written as ST:TNG and ST:DS9 became, I'd be interested in this... It doesn't have to have direct implications on any movie even, just set in the universe, and not "dumbed down", which I feel Star Wars: Rebels is far too dumbed down at this point. It's losing me... It'll never lose me to the point I won't watch because I like eye-candy on it, but it'll eventually lose my interest enough where I won't care if I wait to see an ep on the interwebs or something.
Last week's Leia episode was enough for me to start rolling my eyes, actually.
I'm afraid Disney would flub up a TV show then too, but then I hear guys all raging over Agents of Shield and stuff. And Fox (not involved, I know) seems to have people's attention with their Batman show that doesn't have Batman in it.
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Agents of Shield is better than any of the WB DC Buffy-like shows. If they could aim the show to not be teenage girl drama it might work.
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The thing is, Star Wars is so popular right now you could probably post a show about two guys talking about Star Wars and turn it into a hit. I'm a little surprised the live show isn't out by now just to capitalize on the fan base at their peak interest level following the movie.
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Since it has a cast list confirming who is back, I guess some people might consider it a spoiler, but The Official Site has announced Ep8 is underway officially -
STAR WARS: EPISODE VIII NOW FILMING (http://www.starwars.com/news/star-wars-episode-viii-now-filming?cmp=smc|368071963&linkId=21276843)
Fun little Episode VIII Production Announcement video they tossed in there. :)
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There's also a more complete list of the Episode VIII cast listed on IMDB, too. Laura Dern and Benicio del Toro are listed among the E8 cast, albeit without character names. And Harrison Ford is listed, too.
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Calling it now, Laura Dern will at some point have to turn a power grid on, where she finds Mace Windu's severed hand.
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If Luke and Leia have a scene together, the music I feel would be appropriate would would be the Luke and Leia theme from Return of the Jedi.
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If Luke and Leia have a scene together, the music I feel would be appropriate would would be the Luke and Leia theme from Return of the Jedi.
Unless they wind up for some reason having to swing on a rope across some kind of chasm or between two vehicles. Then we just need the straight-up version of the Main Theme.
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If Luke and Leia have a scene together, the music I feel would be appropriate would would be the Luke and Leia theme from Return of the Jedi.
Unless they wind up for some reason having to swing on a rope across some kind of chasm or between two vehicles. Then we just need the straight-up version of the Main Theme.
I know but it might just feel kind of like only the original trilogy using the Luke and Leia theme.
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Force ghost Yoda!
http://makingstarwars.net/2016/04/rumor-frank-oz-headed-to-star-wars-episode-viii-sets/ (http://makingstarwars.net/2016/04/rumor-frank-oz-headed-to-star-wars-episode-viii-sets/)
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Rey's training has begun!
(http://forums.wdwmagic.com/attachments/image-png.137737/)
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Rey's training has begun!
(http://forums.wdwmagic.com/attachments/image-png.137737/)
Broken link?
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(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CftAyCAXIAA3sb9.jpg)
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Thanks. Yoda was right - Luke doesn't look as good at age 900.
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I hope she doesn't drop him when doing a hand stand. Luke could break his hip.
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I just saw some of the BBC pool material of Prince William and Prince Harry touring the Episode 8 set at Pinewood studios. WOW! The A-Wing starfighter is back, and there's even one in the classic blue and white color scheme like the original Ralph McQuarrie design. And it looked like they were on some sort of Resistance hangar set, which was cool in and of itself. There were a total of 3 fighters on set: one Resistance X-wing in the grey and blue markings like we saw in The Force Awakens, the aforementioned blue & white A-Wing and a second A-Wing that was in the more recognizable red & white markings that we saw in ROTJ.
On hand for the meet & greet were director Rian Johnson, Lucasfilm head Kathleen Kennedy, Mark Hamill, Daisy Ridley, John Boyega, BB-8 and Chewbacca (pretty sure it was Joonas Suotamo in the costume).
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Knights of Ren vs. Rey and Luke (http://makingstarwars.net/2016/05/star-wars-episode-viii-the-knights-of-ren/)
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Knights of Ren vs. Rey and Luke (http://makingstarwars.net/2016/05/star-wars-episode-viii-the-knights-of-ren/)
That's some good stuff!
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Looking forward to seeing the Knights of Ren in action. You get the sense that we already did see them in Rey's Force vision. But you're left wondering if they're all Force users or not. And do any of them utilize lightsabers aside from Kylo Ren?
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Read a rumor that Episode 8 will reveal the origin of the force and it sounds soooo awful.
http://screenrant.com/star-wars-8-rumors-force-origin-chosen-one-rey/ (http://screenrant.com/star-wars-8-rumors-force-origin-chosen-one-rey/)
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Read a rumor that Episode 8 will reveal the origin of the force and it sounds soooo awful.
http://screenrant.com/star-wars-8-rumors-force-origin-chosen-one-rey/ (http://screenrant.com/star-wars-8-rumors-force-origin-chosen-one-rey/)
It's not that different than this:
(http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/starwars/images/3/3e/TheOnes-SWE.png/revision/latest?cb=20110916213052)
I thought of the Mortis Arc when I read about this last week, that was some trippy **** for a kid's show
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Yeah, I didn't care much for that Mortis arc. I'll even say it, the Droid Squad arc was better.
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Check out this this Flicks And The City video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B26RQLS-0d4) from the 'Future Filmmakers' panel at SWCE. Episode VIII director Rian Johnson sat down with LFL head Kathleen Kennedy and Lucasfilm story group members Kiri Hart and Pablo Hidaldo to discuss the next installment in the Sequel Trilogy.
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I get why they held off on a trailer pre Rogue One, I read lots of articles that they weren't sure how this little experiment would go and are banking a lot of future plans on RO success...like I said I get it...WHERE IS THE TEASER TRAILER
Dontcha think it may have been a great idea to debut your next tent pole and some new footage at the start of this one (hell tag it on to the end of RO)
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But then we wouldn't see that Transformers trailer with the auto-tune song! ::)
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I was thinking the same thing about an Episode VIII teaser. But then I gave it a little thought from a whole messenging/PR standpoint. This whole anthology film concept is still a somewhat new concept, and there were some considerable experiments in the mix, too. I think that Lucasfilm and Disney want THAT to be the story coming out of this opening weekend. Give this movie a chance to stand on it's own to show that it's not a fluke.
I think the first Episode VIII teaser will probably come out at one of two times: the REBELS season 3 finale or Star Wars Celebration in Orlando.
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We'll probably see it around the time of the next Marvel Movie.
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We'll probably see it around the time of the next Marvel Movie.
That's Guardians of the Galaxy Volume 2 in May - while it most likely will be attached to that, I agree with Nicklab - they will show *something* during Celebration in April - it may not be a "finished" 1st trailer, but there will be something EP8 related shown.
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Yep it's pretty much marketing. They want RO and each of these films to have its own conversation vis-a-vis media and the culture at large. If they ran a teaser before or after for 8 we'd all be talking about that and not RO. It's also starving the market as much as they can - pure anecdote but at RO the other day they played the new Spidey trailer and a guy in front of me said 'They need to stop making these movies.' Not sure if it was Spidey in particular or Marvel in general but it was a weariness that escalated with the Guardians and Logan trailers. You don't want to saturate the market, which they are at one movie per year, so they definitely don't want to create the impression they are. We'll see a trailer at celebration after the RO DVD has dropped, pretty much following the same pattern RO took after TFA.
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And we have a title! (http://www.starwars.com/news/the-official-title-for-star-wars-episode-viii-revealed)
(http://a.dilcdn.com/bl/wp-content/uploads/sites/6/2017/01/viii-logo-tall-1536x864-414669331908.jpg)
JANUARY 23, 2017
THE OFFICIAL TITLE FOR STAR WARS: EPISODE VIII REVEALED
ANNOUNCING THE NAME OF THE NEXT FILM IN THE SKYWALKER SAGA.
We have the greatest fans in this or any other galaxy. In appreciation of the fans, we wanted them to be the first to know the title of the next chapter in the Skywalker saga: STAR WARS: THE LAST JEDI.
THE LAST JEDI is written and directed by Rian Johnson and produced by Kathleen Kennedy and Ram Bergman and executive produced by J.J. Abrams, Jason McGatlin, and Tom Karnowski.
STAR WARS: THE LAST JEDI is scheduled for release December 15, 2017.
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So many thoughts.
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Wonder if this uses the singular or plural form of "Jedi"
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Wonder if this uses the singular or plural form of "Jedi"
Exactly what I was wondering.
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At what point does someone become a Jedi? I would assume that they need to be officially accepted as an apprentice to be considered a Jedi? If that is the case, then Luke has been "the last Jedi" for quite some time since Rey isn't really a Jedi apprentice until Luke agrees to mentor her.
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They are breaking with wording tradition. It should have four words not three. Each middle movie had four words.
Attack of the Clones
The Empire Stikes Back
The Last Jedi
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Number of words or not, it just seems a blunt and sort of final-sounding title. Like we're going to wind up with only one person standing in the end or something along those lines. But there may be more to it: Yoda called Luke the last of the Jedi in ROTJ and since this is going to be a Luke-centered movie, perhaps that is what the title refers to?
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That's what I was thinking, kind of. I figure it's just more about Luke than Rey there.
This suits me fine, or not, whatever. I didn't care for TPM or AOTC as titles go for some reason, but I didn't hate them either. Just doesn't matter to me enough to flip my wig over it like I've noticed some guys have. :-X
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The phrase is what caught me, really. I remember when people were trying to analyze the prequel titles, and looking for these patterns where Episode IV and Episode I had 3 word titles, and then Episode V and II both had 4 word titles, etc. I think that's probably more of a tangent than anything substantial.
I think the phrase has infinitely more significance than the word count. And I think it even goes as far back as Yoda saying it to Luke in ROTJ. He told Luke "When gone am I, the last of the Jedi will you be". That same phrase turned up in a couple of places in TFA, as well. It's used in the opening crawl, and IIRC Snoke also referred to Luke as the last of the Jedi, too.
Then there's the whole 'Balance of The Force' thing to consider. We learned in TFA that Luke attempted to establish a new Jedi order only to see it destroyed. The end of Return of the Jedi also saw the end of the Sith, and from what we've come to learn Snoke is likely a Dark Side of The Force user as is Kylo Ren. Both of whom do not appear to be Sith, but something else.
So, what is Rey? If Luke is truly the last of the Jedi as Yoda said, will Rey become something else? It's very clear that The Force is with her. But seeing how the Jedi failed in the prequels and Luke's new generation of Jedi fell, maybe Rey is destined to be something other than a Jedi? Something that this new Sequel Trilogy era, along with the Clone Wars have illustrated is that The Force is much bigger in scope than this binary situation of Jedi or Sith. We've also seen Dark Side users like the Night Sisters of Dathomir and the trio of Force users that were embodied on Mortis. There may be some light side users who are not Jedi, too.
These are some of the questions that I have to take from the big picture when you take this title into account.
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They are breaking with wording tradition. It should have four words not three. Each middle movie had four words.
Attack of the Clones
The Empire Stikes Back
The Last Jedi
They already did that last time:
A New Hope = Luke (or the Death Star plans according to Rogue One)
The Phantom Menance = Sidious and/or the Sith
The Force Awakens doesn't refer to anything specific
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The Force Awakens doesn't refer to anything specific
Really? Did ANYONE watch the Force vision scene in TFA? Because when Rey touched the Skywalker lightsaber was the precise moment when The Force awoke within Rey. That's what the title refers to.
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The Force Awakens doesn't refer to anything specific
Really? Did ANYONE watch the Force vision scene in TFA? Because when Rey touched the Skywalker lightsaber was the precise moment when The Force awoke within Rey. That's what the title refers to.
The previous two movie titles refer to a person or persons...TFA refers to something that happens to Rey. That is quite a bit different. The number of words comparison is for the second movie isn't the true comparison. TESB and AOTC are both titles in which a group is performing an action. TLJ is referring to either Luke and/or Rey. If it were The Last Jedi Rises or something similar, then it would be in line, but they really didn't stay in line with Ep. VII.
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I see the pattern between the OT and the PT title structures. But those titles are also rooted in the overall story direction of each of those movies. IMHO, story direction does seem like it should be the chief factor in determining a title. Seeing where the story of THE LAST JEDI goes is only fair before casting judgement on the pattern that titles have followed in past movies.
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But those titles are also rooted in the overall story direction of each of those movies.
And they are also rooted in George Lucas... who is not here for these titles. ;)
I have no problem with the titles or Disney doing things slightly different than the past 6 movies. Disney can call it whatever they want as long as it doesn't suck.
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George did like that whole narrative concept of the "tone poem". And you see a lot of echoing events that take place in both the PT and OT. We saw some of them in TFA. I'm curious to see if we can expect those sorts of echoes in Episode VIII, too.
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George did like that whole narrative concept of the "tone poem". And you see a lot of echoing events that take place in both the PT and OT. We saw some of them in TFA. I'm curious to see if we can expect those sorts of echoes in Episode VIII, too.
They kind of over did the echoing in TFA. Hopefully TLJ will be mostly original.
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Going to go all the way back to 2015 in another thread on Rebels because I think this is where it's going:
I'm more and more excited for the arrival of Ahsoka the more I think about it. It has staggering implications for the show and the future. Kanan and Ezra may expect a fellow Jedi, but she's not a Jedi and I wonder what impact her perspective will have on them. What does her agnosticism mean for Kanan/Hera? As Kanan embraces more of the Jedi way, does that mean his relationship with Hera is in trouble, or does Ahsoka advocate a different path? Maybe Ahsoka, Kanan and Ezra don't go down in flames at the end of this series. l'll go ahead and predict they don't. What if they form the nucleus of a non-Jedi light side movement? I've been on the potential of Ahsoka's journey outside of the Jedi order ever since the end of CW, but this excerpt from Dave Filoni's interview with SW.com last night really got me going:
StarWars.com: I have a bit of a continuity challenge for you. In Return of the Jedi, Yoda tells Luke, "When gone am I, the last of the Jedi will you be." But now he knows that Kanan and Ezra are out there. We obviously don't know at this point what will happen to them, but is that something you're aware of?
Dave Filoni: I don't see it as a challenge at all. It's what the Sith call an absolute. When Obi-Wan says to Luke, "Your father was the greatest starfighter pilot in the galaxy," is that true? Or is that something you tell a kid because you want him to believe his father was great? It doesn't have to be empirical or absolutely true. Saying Luke is "the last," is that a singular thing, or is he the last of a group? I don't know.
It definitely is something that comes up, and we discuss that moment all the time for what it could mean. It is possible to interpret it as, Luke is the last person that's following the path as laid out by the Jedi Order, which we knew. The way of the Jedi is not the only way to use the light side of the Force. Luke is taught by Obi-Wan and Yoda, who very much followed the dogma of the day. So, he is the last of that line for sure. That's absolutely true. But you don't have to be a Jedi to use the Force. You don't have to be a Sith to use the dark side.
This I think has massive implications for what may be happening in the ST era, where at least we can say with certainty that the post ROTJ Jedi order Luke established in the comics/books is NOT happening. What is or isn't actually happening with Luke and his successors remains to be seen, but in any event, Luke would have to confront the failures of the old Jedi Order in creating a new one and a great counterpoint and balance to that would be the perspective that Ahsoka, or perhaps her disciples, embody.
I think Luke is literally and figuratively the last Jedi because Rey will not be trained as one. She will be trained as the first disciple of something new. We've seen a LOT of non Jedi force users / devotees in Rebels, Clone Wars and now Rogue one. Could be leading somewhere. The PT was effectively an indictment of the Jedi was they were in the moment; they had become about their own bureaucracy. The denial of emotional attachment created a distance between them and the people they served that contributed at least to Anakin's downfall, and theirs. Emotional attachment is what salvages Anakin and the Jedi. We don't know right now, but did Luke attempt to reinstate the order along the old precepts? What if that really didn't work? We don't know completely what turned Kylo toward the dark side, but letting go is not something he was able to do in the extreme. Luke may have discovered in his journey to the first Jedi temple that the order has been many things over its history and can be many things in the future. He may have decided that fidelity to the order does not have primacy over fidelity to the force. In fact, he effectively alters the path of the Jedi at the end of ROTJ when he throws away his lightsaber. His mission is kill your Dad, become a Jedi. Luke chooses love over hate, peace over war and destroys both the Jedi and Sith in one moment. His failure with his new order may have been going back to the precepts of the old order, or fumbling the rollout in a way we just don't understand yet.
I'm excited by the prospect of what could be happening. I think it would be provocative to step out of the Jedi / Sith binary (which they've done already with the Knights of Ren) and complete the circle by bending back to the themes and concerns of the PT.
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Good points Darby.
I've always thought of the prophecy of "bringing balance to the force" as a Sith vs Jedi (evil vs. good) kind of thing. Maybe to your point the "balance" is that individuals like Ahsoka, Rey, and maybe Luke are more about a personal balance where the dogmatic ends of the spectrum get harmonized.
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Absolutely. To the extent that the balance of the force is still a concern in the ST (I think it is, Lor San Tekka speaks to it) then it's not simply destroying the Sith / restarting the Jedi Order. Balance is between something and that's where Ahsoka is, where Luke was right at the end of ROTJ and where he may be at the beginning of TLJ.
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In fact, he effectively alters the path of the Jedi at the end of ROTJ when he throws away his lightsaber. His mission is kill your Dad, become a Jedi. Luke chooses love over hate, peace over war and destroys both the Jedi and Sith in one moment.
When is Luke told that he needs to kill Vader?! Yoda says he must confront Vader. "A Jedi uses is powers for knowledge and defense - never for attack." Luke casting away his lightsaber instead of killing Vader is how he becomes a true Jedi. IF he had killed a defenseless Vader, that would have taken him down the path of the Sith. Yoda also tells Luke before he dies, "pass on what you have learned." Unless Luke has had some added insight about how to use the force, I'm not clear on why he would be teaching Rey a different path.
I think Luke is really old and exhausted, and probably dies in this film, leaving Rey as "The Last Jedi." Maybe there will be more to it, but sometimes it's just that simple. "The Force Awakens" didn't have some deep, mysterious meaning and I don't think this one does either.
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The implication is clear, in regards to what Luke has to do with Vader. Luke says to Obi-Wan after Yoda dies - 'I can't kill my own father.' Obi-Wan responds with manifest disappointment - 'Then the Emperor has already won.'
I don't disagree Luke becomes a Jedi at the end of the duel with Vader, but he also achieves something greater in my opinion. In many ways, Luke is never offered a choice in the OT. 'You must learn the ways of the Force if you are to become a Jedi.' 'You must confront Vader.' 'If you will not turn to the Dark Side, then perhaps she will.' Circumstances force his hand in a lot of areas: the deaths of Owen and Beru, the vision of Cloud City. But he's constantly being shaped and guided by outside forces until the final moment where he rejects both his stated mission, and the Emperor's goading him into killing Vader, which happen to be the exact same thing. Luke recognizes this. Luke won't play the game. I think this is an enlightenment the Jedi in the PT at least (of which Yoda and Obi-Wan are remnants) simply did not have.
This could all go a lot of ways and this is just speculation on my part given the pretty significant groundwork being laid in cannon right now non-Jedi force users being not only prevalent but maybe preferable.
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Going to throw out some WILD speculation because apparently not going to get any work done today.
This is super unlikely but just following some of these threads to their ends: IF Luke is the last Jedi, and establishes a new order outside of it, one question would be what to call it. Rather than get all creative, the solution would be fairly simple: the Skywalker Order. I think this also speaks to the 'Skywalker Saga' conversation that for the moment seems to be operating without a new one. My two cents: I believed from the start that Rey was a Solo. Now that Jyn Erso is, um, disqualified, I'm sticking to that. I don't believe Rey is a Skywalker in name but will become one in title. She inherits the Jedi and Skywalker legacies Kylo desires but feels were denied hm, but - BUT - may yet also receive should he redeem himself and somehow survive to join this new order.
Anyways, back to work.
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I'd had the same thought that Darby did, regarding Luke/Vader...
Kenobi, Yoda, etc., didn't see Vader as a redeemable person, and so they looked at him as someone that had to go, to get things back to normal. Luke even made the impassioned plea that his father had good and he felt it, and Kenobi denied this and said he's more machine than man, twisted and evil, yada yada yada.
I felt, like Darby said, that the redemption of Vader was more of a bonus than anything, for Luke.
At the same time, I think Luke's take on the force is going to be wildly different than what the original Order has... I think there were already Jedi heading in that direction (QGJ for instance) but that with them all wiped out and Luke starting from scratch, he kind of would take his own experiences into account in recreating the order. I cannot imagine he'd shun family/love like the old older did, when it was family and love of family that ultimately won the day at Endor. It's possibly even familial connection that he and Leia have that saved his own life at Bespin even.
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This title definitely evokes a whole range of questions. And I think if Luke IS the last Jedi, then what might Rey become?
One thing that came to mind is how both CLONE WARS as well as ROGUE ONE introduced the Whills into the Star Wars canon. Are the Whills and their connection to The Force going to get explored? Is this perhaps part of what Luke went off to discover when he went in search of the first Jedi Temple?
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Kanan is way more of a legit Jedi then Luke IMO. He went the full on traditional route, growing up as a padawan learner, mastering the various lightsaber forms, studying at the Temple, etc. Luke's training seems pretty sloppy and half assed by comparison.
Thinking they are going to have to write him out somehow by the end of Rebels. Probably Ezra too. Just doesn't seem to fit logically in that later timeline. I mean, people at the rebellion know those guys. Word gets around. Oh you have a lightsaber too? Yeah we have two other guys that throw down with them here. You dudes should hook up!
Or something.
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Don't forget that Sabine has a dark saber now.
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I've been thinking more and more about this title and how it might fit in with some previous lore, and it brings me back to the prophecy of the One who would bring balance to The Force.
In the prequels Yoda and Mace Windu spoke of the prophecy of the Chosen One who would bring balance to The Force. Having seen the complete story of Anakin Skywalker, I think that it's likely that he may not have been the Chosen One. He was a Jedi who turned to the Sith, but eventually turned on the Sith, destroying them. In the process he was killed, leaving Luke as the last Jedi. So was the prophecy achieved? It doesn't seem that way since Luke remained as a light side Force user.
I'm wondering if it's possible that Rey is actually the Chosen One. If Luke is truly the last of the Jedi as Yoda said, will Rey become something else? It's very clear that The Force is with her. She took on Kylo Ren, who had both Jedi training and was strong with the Dark Side, and Rey had ZERO Jedi training. It seems that in light of how the Jedi failed in the prequels and Luke's new generation of Jedi fell, maybe Rey is destined to be something other than a Jedi, perhaps something greater? Is it possible that Rey is destined to become a new type of Force user who can harness both the dark and the light, truly bringing balance?
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I've been thinking more and more about this title and how it might fit in with some previous lore, and it brings me back to the prophecy of the One who would bring balance to The Force.
In the prequels Yoda and Mace Windu spoke of the prophecy of the Chosen One who would bring balance to The Force. Having seen the complete story of Anakin Skywalker, I think that it's likely that he may not have been the Chosen One. He was a Jedi who turned to the Sith, but eventually turned on the Sith, destroying them. In the process he was killed, leaving Luke as the last Jedi. So was the prophecy achieved? It doesn't seem that way since Luke remained as a light side Force user.
I'm wondering if it's possible that Rey is actually the Chosen One. If Luke is truly the last of the Jedi as Yoda said, will Rey become something else? It's very clear that The Force is with her. She took on Kylo Ren, who had both Jedi training and was strong with the Dark Side, and Rey had ZERO Jedi training. It seems that in light of how the Jedi failed in the prequels and Luke's new generation of Jedi fell, maybe Rey is destined to be something other than a Jedi, perhaps something greater? Is it possible that Rey is destined to become a new type of Force user who can harness both the dark and the light, truly bringing balance?
The prophecy depends on which Lucas you believe. At one point, Lucas maintained that the dark side is what brought the Force out of balance and that Vader/Anakin killing Palpatine and then dying brought the Force back into balance. To me, it looks more like coming full circle in the respect that Anakin starts as a Jedi, turns to the dark side, and then is redeemed and brought back to the light.
Flash forward to the Mortis trilogy in the Clone Wars cartoon. That was more of a literal balance with the Father, Son and Daughter. From that aspect, there are two Sith and many Jedi. Anakin becomes Vader and hunts down the Jedi (or so we have thought) and by the time of ANH (if we ignore Rebels for the time being) we have Yoda and Kenobi versus Sidious and Vader, thus creating a "balance".
This is all out the window under Disney since we have Snoke and Kylo Ren. Ren is some sort of dark side Force user, but we have yet to see what Snoke is.
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I think Nicklab might be on to something. As far as Lucas' own perspective, I always thought his view on the idea of balance, as has been stated at least, within the force was incomplete. As we've talked about a little in this thread, balance is between things. There's an equilibrium. Erasing one side or the other out of existence does not bring balance. When he said Anakin brought balance by destroying the Emperor and redeeming himself - how? The Sith are destroyed. Dark side clearly isn't. Luke embodies both at the very end of ROTJ. He has used the dark side, but will not be used by it. So in that way he is bringing a balance but Lucas doesn't see it that way, apparently, and now with the sequels Lor San Tekka alludes to the fact that 'without the Jedi there cannot be balance in the force' though Luke represents the Jedi exactly as he did at the end of Jedi in his own person. If fear of the dark side made the Jedi susceptible to it, then Luke or Ahsoka or their heirs walking a middle path would make sense, but we have Kylo, whose family history was apparently hid from him out of fear of something happening along the lines of what ultimately did.
In other words, I dunno.
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Lucas' initial stance was that the dark side itself brought the Force out of balance. I believe this was a stance between the OT and before PT, or at least before the PT was finished. By taking out Palpatine, Lucas stated that Vader/Anakin brought balance because, at the time, he did essentially erase the dark side since there were no more dark side users in canon.
Once the Mortis episodes came out, Lucas had seemed to shift to a more literal balance. It made the PT an even deeper trilogy because it would seem the Jedi misinterpreted the prophecy and that by turning to the dark side, Anakin literally balanced the Force by exterminating the Jedi (if in fact Vader is one hunting down Jedi during the Purge). By ANH you have two Jedi and two Sith or a balance between dark and light.
Disney seems to be taking a separate stance, which they have to do to continue the story. The ST wouldn't be the Skywalker story if the Force was removed. We need a light side user in Luke and/or Rey and a dark side user in Ren and/or Snoke. I think you a right that we may end up with something like the grey Jedi of the old EU...someone who uses both aspects of the Force.
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I don't think the "balance" being referred to is a set number of people on each side, like Yoda/Kenobi vs. Vader/Palpatine. I think it means that the force/nature seeks out a balance of good and evil. That they must coexist with some level of near equality. Even when there were thousands of Jedi roaming around, the general message was that there still weren't enough of them based on all the disputes and corruption throughout the galaxy.
For me, the shift out of balance was when the Jedi were mostly exterminated and the Sith came into power. That would generate far more dark "acts" measured as a whole, with greater loss of life, freedoms, persecution, etc. and no rebounding protective force for good. The force self-corrects by creating a number of circumstances that allow Luke to ascend in power and ultimately overthrow the Emperor. If you buy into this theory, then categorizations of Jedi or Sith don't really matter. You can maintain a balance of good and evil influences without either of those designations.
I still think people are reading a lot into the name. Luke was the last Jedi in the ROTJ era - that doesn't mean he is the last Jedi forever. If I have a bag of m&m's and eat all but one, I'm down to the last m&m...until I buy a new bag of m&m's. I think Luke trains Rey, then passes on, making her the last Jedi (for now). IIRC, a lot of Trekkies thought The Final Frontier was going to be the final Star Trek film ever made, when in fact it didn't mean anything of the sort.
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Totally forgot until someone pointed it out today that the E7 opening crawl said:
"Luke Skywalker has vanished. In his absence, the sinister FIRST ORDER has risen from the ashes of the Empire and will not rest until Skywalker, the last Jedi, has been destroyed."
Like Justin just said, just because Luke starts the movie as "The Last Jedi" doesn't mean he finishes the movie that way. Maybe Rey takes up the path of the Jedi (or re-joins the path, if you're one of the folks who think she's actually a survivor of Luke's first Jedi Academy attempt). Will be interesting to see how it plays out.
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Nice find - I totally missed that!
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There's a report on movie web about some possible flashback scene(s) (http://movieweb.com/star-wars-last-jedi-knights-ren-origin-story/) in TLJ. And it may involve the origins of the Knights of Ren, and possibly a confrontation between Luke and the Knights of Ren at what may be Vader's castle on Mustafar.
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We know Benicio Del Toro has an undisclosed role in TLJ. Is it possible that he plays Ezra Bridger and is Rey's father?
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I've been seeing that Ezra rumor thrown around, too. And I just don't buy it. Mostly because what we keep hearing from Lucasfilm is that they're trying to make the Star Wars universe bigger, and not smaller by crafting these relationships between characters that would tie them all together. Benicio del Toro bears a little bit of a resemblance to Ezra. But it would be a first if we had a character like this cross over into the movies. And I don't count the Chopper cameo in ROGUE ONE as a real appearance.
Plus, Darth Vader has encountered Ahsoka, Kanan and Ezra over the course of the REBELS series. He has spent all of this time between the events of ROTS and ANH hunting down the Jedi. I get the sneaking suspicion that Vader may get to tracking down Ezra and Kanan eventually.
I also remember some crazy theories that were floating around about Finn. One that he was related to Lando. And another tying him to Mace Windu. Seriously? Because all of the actors are black?!?! There just seems to be this weird thing that's been building where a lot of fans have been trying to create these links between old characters and new ones, and I think this Ezra theory might be yet another one of these.
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Saw Gerrara was in the Clone Wars cartoons, so it wouldn't be the first crossover, but it would be the first major character crossover.
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It's not unheard of that a cartoon character crossed over to the movie. Saw Gerrera was a Clone Wars character and appeared in Rebels. He was in Rogue One. I just see the Bridger thing as expanding the saga away from just the Skywalkers and now including some Kenobi decedents. It's possible and much better than Luke having a child with introduced "Mara Jade".
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Doh! Saw, of course. My bad. But yeah, it would be somewhat unprecedented for a CORE character from an animated series to make that leap into live action.
There have definitely been some theories about a link between Rey and Obi-Wan Kenobi. Especially considering the voice of Obi-Wan appearing in Rey's Force vision in TFA. That gives us something to build upon. And the relationship between Obi-Wan and Satine is also something that could add further fuel to the theory. Where this general theory really loses me is the leap from that Satine/Obi-Wan relationship to them having a secret child who is actually Sabine. The notion of a child isn't that crazy to me. The fact that it's SABINE? Hmmm....
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I think the Sabine / Obi-Wan link in intriguing but I think we're about to find out in the cartoon there isn't one (her mom appears to be someone other than Satine). I think Rey's parents will be legacy characters of a little more stature than Ezra or Sabine, however I do think this story with Ezra is going somewhere. He's on this path that is leading directly toward being a Jedi Knight, which we know he will never be because in ROTJ, Yoda doesn't qualify it when he says Luke is the last jedi (hmm...). Ezra is also walking a pretty thin line on the dark side of things and I've read a few theories he could be Snoke, which would be interesting.
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I still like the idea that Snoke is Darth Plagueis and he used the midichlorians to create Anakin. They are fun to think about but we might be getting something even better.
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https://youtu.be/-teMecdNdyM
Potential Teaser Details
-Finn (John Boyega) awakes from a "nightmare/coma" in a medical bay similar to the start of Episode VII
-Poe Dameron (Oscar Isaac) opens a door to ominously say "They're here"
-The Benicio del Torro character opens fire on a procession of mourners to the dismay of Poe, Finn & BB-8
-Princess Leia (Carrie Fisher) says "they're shadow is growing"
-Then an 8-FOOT TALL Supreme Leader Snoke walks out, not a hologram, we're talking the real thing and he asks "is he alive?" To which his homie replies, "barely"...paving the way for Snoke to drop this bomb and say "Good, the time has come for a family reunion." BUT WHO IS HE TALKING ABOUT?!?
-The Millennium Falcon battles some tie-fighters
-The voice of Luke Skywalker then says "Everything will die with us" as we see the reflection of Luke's signature blue light saber light up in the helmet of Captain Phasma
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Interesting. Although it sounds like Mike Zeroh is even a little skeptical considering where the info came from.
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Potential Teaser Details
-Then an 8-FOOT TALL Supreme Leader Snoke walks out, not a hologram, we're talking the real thing and he asks "is he alive?" To which his homie replies, "barely"...paving the way for Snoke to drop this bomb and say "Good, the time has come for a family reunion." BUT WHO IS HE TALKING ABOUT?!?
Chewbacca?? Can't think of any 8' Solos, Skywalkers, or Bridgers... Maybe Orcs from Middle Earth?
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It would seem that the Snoke scene might be a continuation from his command for Hux to bring him Kylo Ren....
Perhaps.
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Potential Teaser Details
-Then an 8-FOOT TALL Supreme Leader Snoke walks out, not a hologram, we're talking the real thing and he asks "is he alive?" To which his homie replies, "barely"...paving the way for Snoke to drop this bomb and say "Good, the time has come for a family reunion." BUT WHO IS HE TALKING ABOUT?!?
Chewbacca?? Can't think of any 8' Solos, Skywalkers, or Bridgers... Maybe Orcs from Middle Earth?
I read that as Snoke is referring to "he who is barely alive" reuniting with his family, not Snoke reuniting with HIS family. Of course, I'm getting this from a post about a Youtuber who is just talking about trailer information that he heard about from another questionable source. I'm just glad Snoke isn't the size of a Frost Giant.
(http://68.media.tumblr.com/4a951aca4ade00293b6162bfd8b8051e/tumblr_o32u5ryvET1u5d459o2_1280.jpg)
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Yes. Reading comprehension 101. Guess I failed. ;)
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I read that as Snoke is referring to "he who is barely alive" reuniting with his family, not Snoke reuniting with HIS family.
I'm guessing the obvious/simplest answer would be Kylo (injured in TFA) being reunited with his Uncle Luke...? Going to be interpreted a million differnt ways and no one even knows if it's true yet. :P
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Second or thirded... whatever.
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I read that as Snoke is referring to "he who is barely alive" reuniting with his family, not Snoke reuniting with HIS family.
I'm guessing the obvious/simplest answer would be Kylo (injured in TFA) being reunited with his Uncle Luke...? Going to be interpreted a million differnt ways and no one even knows if it's true yet. :P
No, it is the biggest secret of the new trilogy, Han Solo lives and is reunited with Kylo Ren!
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No, it is the biggest secret of the new trilogy, Han Solo lives and is reunited with Kylo Ren!
Sure, when you fall down a bottomless pit on a planet that blown up shortly after, anyone can survive that.
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No, it is the biggest secret of the new trilogy, Han Solo lives and is reunited with Kylo Ren!
Sure, when you fall down a bottomless pit on a planet that blown up shortly after, anyone can survive that.
Hux is just that good. He manages to grab Ren, get Phasma out of the trash compactor, and grab Han who is falling through the entire planet all in about two minutes after he talks to Snoke. It is going to be amazing.
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Han is Snoke. ;) After being impaled and falling into the put he focused on all of his anger and hatred in order to survive. It's true. All of it.
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Still think it would have been cooler if Snoke really was a giant. Kind of asinine to think that all sentient living creatures across the galaxy would be roughly the same size and mass.
I figured Finn would have little to do in this movie but I guess they are keeping him around for some eventual payoff.
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Still think it would have been cooler if Snoke really was a giant. Kind of asinine to think that all sentient living creatures across the galaxy would be roughly the same size and mass.
Just think if Palpatine was just this giant floating head as that's all that appeared of him in Empire!
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Wonder if this uses the singular or plural form of "Jedi"
Back to this topic - Star Wars international social media accounts are starting to post international Ep8 logos, like this Spanish version (photo from twitter (https://twitter.com/nuriwan/status/832519518828294144)), that indicates Jedi is plural.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C420EXBXAAA-vDp.jpg)
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Can you connect the dots for those of us that took German class instead? Does the "S" in Ultimos convey multiples?
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Can you connect the dots for those of us that took German class instead? Does the "S" in Ultimos convey multiples?
I would think it would be the "Los" which is the plural form of the in Spanish...I took French, so I'm not 100% sure, but French had la, le, and les for the. La and Le are the feminine and masculine versions, depending on what they are describing, and Les is the plural form. I believe Spanish is similar in that respect. So Los Jedi is the Jedi (plural) and if it were just referring to Luke, it would be El Jedi.
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Can you connect the dots for those of us that took German class instead? Does the "S" in Ultimos convey multiples?
Die = plural :)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C432KhzWEAAuFvi.jpg)
I took French, so I'm not 100% sure, but French had la, le, and les for the. La and Le are the feminine and masculine versions, depending on what they are describing, and Les is the plural form
Les = Plural
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C430Y5eXAAAGUp4.jpg)
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Cool - thanks! If I'm recalling my German correctly, "Die" isn't always plural in German. All nouns have a gender: "der" (masculine), "die" (feminine) and "das" (neuter). There's no good rhyme or reason to the gender assigned to various things that normally wouldn't have a gender. So, if Jedi is a feminine noun then it doesn't imply a plural. Magic, Flower, Pencil, & Action Figure are all feminine words that start with "die," while words like Girl are neuter (Das) instead of feminine. I thought I saw "Der Jedi" at some point though, which would indicate that the "die" is implied plural.
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A little surprised to see that the rumor surrounding Benicio del Toro that surfaced within the past couple of weeks, complete with a character name. That being Vikrum Fett. I don't know how much stock to put in that, but there is a slight resemblance to an Episode II character.
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https://m.facebook.com/starwarsthelastjediofficial/
Not sure if this is official, but trailer is on here.
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https://m.facebook.com/starwarsthelastjediofficial/
Not sure if this is official, but trailer is on here.
I recognized some of the elements in there, some of which came from some video game trailers. I'm pretty sure it's a fan trailer.
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After thinking about it, I don't recall seeing Poe and Finn in the trailer at all. So yes I think it's fake news
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Totally fake. Entertaining, but fake as hell.
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Definitely getting a fakey vibe from it... sorry man.
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Half that footage is from TFA and that ship over the island looks paused in frame. The actress with the blindfold is not Daisy. Definitely not real.
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That wasn't very good. The parts with the fan film stuff just looked shotty and low quality. The voice overs were terrible.
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There are reports that a clip from 'The Last Jedi' (http://makingstarwars.net/2017/03/star-wars-last-jedi-scene-descriptions-disney-shareholders-meeting/) was shown today at a Disney shareholders meeting held by Bob Iger. And Dan Miller of the Los Angeles Times described some of the teaser (https://twitter.com/DanielNMiller). Based on what he saw? It seems that Luke does not know who Rey is when they meet on Ahch-To.
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It seems we are getting an even bigger AT-AT to add to our toy shelves.
http://screenrant.com/star-wars-8-last-jedi-first-order-gorilla-walkers/ (http://screenrant.com/star-wars-8-last-jedi-first-order-gorilla-walkers/)
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That sounds like it could go either way...very cool or very lame.
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There was some material shown at Cinemacon in Las Vegas, and some images have leaked out. Some include shots that look like Kylo Ren on Ahch-To.
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It would be funny if they deployed them and the Resistance deployed even bigger walkers.
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I WISH IT WAS DECEMBER SO BADLY RIGHT NOW.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C9YRt1SXkAEYN-k.jpg)
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The Trailer
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zB4I68XVPzQ
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:o
My brain is literally useless for anything else today.
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Poe keeps losing his ships!!
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The planet with the AT-ATs and rescue flare podracers is called Crait (http://ew.com/movies/2017/04/14/star-wars-rian-johnson-last-jedi-planet/?xid=entertainment-weekly_socialflow_twitter)
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Because Krayt would have made too much sense. Home of dragons and Sith Lords!
Cool stuff, couldn't hear the audio much at work. I think the most intriguing scene is that weird platform on the cliff that looks all Sithy. And smashed Vader helmet.
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"I only know one truth. It's time for the Jedi......to end."
Chills!
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McMetal, I thought that was Kylo's helmet that was smashed...
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"I only know one truth. It's time for the Jedi......to end."
This is something that I've been thinking about ever since the title got announced. I'm really interested to see where this goes.
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"I only know one truth. It's time for the Jedi......to end."
This is something that I've been thinking about ever since the title got announced. I'm really interested to see where this goes.
I think its just creative editing. My insiders tell me its just Luke and Rey arguing about what to have for lunch. The full text is, "It's time for the Jedi to end drinking blue milk"!
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"I only know one truth. It's time for the Jedi......to end."
This is something that I've been thinking about ever since the title got announced. I'm really interested to see where this goes.
I think its just creative editing. My insiders tell me its just Luke and Rey arguing about what to have for lunch. The full text is, "It's time for the Jedi to end drinking blue milk"!
Ever the optimist!
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I think its just creative editing.
I've read more than a few theories that the lines are mixed and that "I only know one truth" is Luke and "It's time for the Jedi to end" is some one else (Benicio? Snoke?).
Don't know if I believe it, but it's possible I guess... after 43 years of walkman/discman/ipod/iphone earbud use, my ears aren't what they once were to tell subtle differences like that. :P
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After watching the trailer a few times I think the Time for the Jedi to End line is probably pretty early in the movie and that Rey somehow changes his mind.
Or...Luke means the Jedi need to evolve into something more.
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I'm leaning towards the Jedi becoming something more. And that's why Luke went to find the first Jedi Temple, and has sought out what appear to be ancient texts.
One of the lessons of the prequels seems to have been that the Jedi Order may have become to enamored of it's own status as an institution, and too rigid. It's along some of these lines that I think Rian Johnson may show some of his affinity for the prequels. Does anyone remember the maverick nature of Qui-Gon Jinn and his adherence to the Living Force? Or Obi-Wan chiding Qui-Gon because he didn't listen to the Jedi Council? Because I suspect the Living Force could play a role in what Luke has learned in the 30 plus years since the Battle of Endor.
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That rigidity was all over the place though.
Jedi have no possessions but have their own lightsabers with their favorite color on it.
Same with their ships.
Their uniforms were varied, especially on the females.
They give up their past yet some had adornments that honored their race
But Yoda did mention pride as a bad thing amongst Jedi, so there is a good explanation for the above.
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I don't know that the Jedi "rules" were intended to say everyone must dress the same and have everything equal among them. I took the message to mean that any real concern over possessions or specific people was dangerous because fear of losing your stuff or loved ones can lead you to abuse your powers in order to protect it. That doesn't mean that they can't show some preference for blue versus green or pick out their own clothes or honor their heritage though. They can have all that cool stuff, they just aren't supposed to form an attachment to it.
I think they need to tread very carefully on this with the next movie. Anakin's fall and the destruction of the Jedi was all based on his fear of losing Padme. The rules weren't wrong in that regard. Luke seems to easily cast off his attachments - his home, his T-16, his landspeeder, his aunt/uncle. And when Vader taunts him about his sister, he starts treading that dark side line. Sure seems like they have built up a lot of history as this being the right path for force users. Maybe you could argue that Vader's attachment to his son is what brings him back to the light, but even there the wording from Vader is "Tell your sister you were right, there was still good in me" versus "I couldn't bear to lose my son to the Emperor."
I'm sure the movie will be awesome, but I always get a little concerned when they start mucking with the learning/morales from previous films.
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Check out these Vanity Fair covers (http://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2017/05/star-wars-the-last-jedi-four-covers). VF has 4 x exclusive covers featuring the cast of THE LAST JEDI as photographed by Annie Liebovitz.
A the Star Wars franchise prepares to celebrate its 40th anniversary this week, the next chapter in its saga will be very much front and center, thanks to a bountiful new shoot from the set of Episode VIII, The Last Jedi, by Annie Leibovitz for Vanity Fair. The relationship between Vanity Fair and Star Wars stretches back long ago and far, far away to when Leibovitz captured the cast of The Phantom Menace (http://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/photos/2015/03/star-wars-portfolio) for the series’s return in 1999. The magazine has gone on to document each of the subsequent Star Wars episodes, including 2015’s blockbuster The Force Awakens (http://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2015/05/star-wars-the-force-awakens-vanity-fair-cover).
Today, Vanity Fair debuts the cast of its follow-up, The Last Jedi, on four different covers, marking the first time we’ve released alternate Star Wars covers. Leibovitz’s full portfolio will be online Wednesday, along with our story on the making of the new film, written by David Kamp. The Summer issue of Vanity Fair will be on newsstands in New York and Los Angeles on May 31, and nationally on June 6. Readers in search of the full Vanity Fair-Star Wars experience, including all four covers, a commemorative poster, and early access, on May 24, to our digital editions, with lightsaber effects by Industrial Light & Magic, can purchase here (https://subscriptions.vanityfair.com/servlet/OrdersGateway?cds_mag_code=VYF&cds_page_id=216275).
(http://media.vanityfair.com/photos/59231a5834765321e4a46479/master/h_1440,c_limit/star-wars-cover-2017-VF-01.jpg)
The first cover features at least one Jedi—who may or may not be the last. Leibovitz captured Daisy Ridley and Mark Hamill on the blustery cliff on the planet Ahch-To (on location in Ireland) where Luke Skywalker was last seen with Ridley’s Rey. Ridley stares down the camera and into the future of the galaxy.
(http://media.vanityfair.com/photos/59231a58b8f9287f73a38dc9/master/h_1440,c_limit/star-wars-cover-2017-VF-02.jpg)
The three First Order heavies—Captain Phasma (Gwendoline Christie), General Hux (Domhnall Gleeson), and Kylo Ren (Adam Driver)—on display here are looking a little worse for wear following the events of The Force Awakens. The new portrait offers fans a first look at Christie in character with her helmet off. Driver tells Kamp in our cover story that Kylo Ren’s wounds go much deeper than the fearsome new scar on his face. If history is any indication, the second installment of the trilogy will be the dark side’s time to shine.
(http://media.vanityfair.com/photos/59231a5824c2cd2a5fc9254e/master/h_1440,c_limit/star-wars-cover-2017-VF-03.jpg)
Fan favorite intergalactic flyboy pin-up, Poe Dameron (Oscar Isaac), is on the third cover, with friends Finn (John Boyega) and the droid BB-8 (as himself). Boyega, healthy and ready for action, is looking much better here than in his comatose state at the conclusion of The Force Awakens. There are some hints about his Last Jedi escapades in our cover story. He’s joined both on those adventures and in this portrait by Rose Tico (Kelly Marie Tran)—a Resistance maintenance worker and the new character with the most screen time in Episode VIII.
(http://media.vanityfair.com/photos/59231a58fd4ee7289c420a7b/master/h_1440,c_limit/star-wars-cover-2017-VF-04.jpg)
No reflection on the franchise’s four decades would be complete without a tribute to Carrie Fisher, who died in December 2016. This final cover features only her character, Leia—the general, princess, and rebel who has been a figure central to the Star Wars universe from the very outset.
Kamp’s story is filled with reflections from the cast and director Rian Johnson on the singular energy and warm enthusiasm Fisher brought to her Last Jedi role. And Lucasfilm president Kathleen Kennedy reflects on the expanded role Leia was meant to play in the trilogy’s final installment.
Check back Wednesday for more from our exclusive The Last Jedi reveal.
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Who told Phasma she could remove her helmet?
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What the heck is she holding? It looks like a javelin from Game of Thrones. Maybe she got her photo shoots mixed up.
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What the heck is she holding?
That's the new accessory they gave her so you have a reason to re-buy her action figure for Ep8!
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Oh great. Now I have to buy Captain Phasma with removable helmet. I think I'm passing.
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Who told Phasma she could remove her helmet?
+1 Beat me to it. LOL!
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Check out these Vanity Fair articles that have gone live today:
Star Wars: The Last Jedi Photos: Which Secrets Are Revealed? (http://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2017/05/star-wars-the-last-jedi-secrets-revealed).
Cover Story: Star Wars: The Last Jedi, the Definitive Preview (http://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2017/05/star-wars-the-last-jedi-cover-portfolio)
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So many Vanity Fair stories today...
- Star Wars Nerds, Mark Hamill Is One of You (http://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2017/05/mark-hamill-star-wars-nerd)
- Star Wars: The Last Jedi: So, About That Title (http://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2017/05/star-wars-the-last-jedi-title)
- Star Wars: Inside the Troubled Past and Exciting Future of Rey’s Lightsaber (http://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2017/05/star-wars-lightsaber-the-last-jedi)
- What’s in Star Wars: The Last Jedi—and What’s Not (http://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2017/05/whats-in-star-wars-the-last-jedi-and-whats-not)
- Here’s How Seriously Adam Driver Takes Playing Kylo Ren (http://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2017/05/adam-driver-kylo-ren-the-last-jedi)
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There's a nice spoiler in the Lego set image Nick posted earlier...
#75190 - First Order Star Destroyer (https://www.instagram.com/p/BUkroD3DToi/?taken-by=starwarsgoon) w/ 2 x First Order Stormtroopers, Supreme Leader Snoke, black BB unit & 2 x mini-figures TBD
Don't click on it if you want to avoid knowing anything about the movie. Otherwise, click the arrow in the picture to see the minifigures included in the set. Looks like Snoke is not a giant alien, but actually just Goldmember from the Austin Powers movie.
I did not see that coming!
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Evil BB-8?
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Evil BB-8?
Nah. BB-8's love interest
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BYOBB-8
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Evil BB-8?
And with that, I now know why I get a knowing smirk from the Disney Parks Merchandising team when I asked them after their SWCO panel if they were going to be doing anything else with that new Build-a-Droid BB-8 sculpt. While I still believe we will get a Holo BB-8 one day, I have no doubt that around the holidays this year there will be a BAD version of this black BB unit.
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It's the all new shadow BB-8!
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"THE LAST JEDI" - Behind The Scenes Reel (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ye6GCY_vqYk) as shown at the 2017 D23 Expo
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The Star Wars Show (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tMTExpDs7WA) has a nice look at Kylo Ren's TIE Silencer (aka Sienar Jaemus TIE/VN Space Superiority Fighter).
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Meet the Porgs (http://www.starwars.com/news/introducing-porgs-the-cute-new-creatures-from-star-wars-the-last-jedi) @ StarWars.com
"Porgs are native to Ahch-To... ...they’re the Star Wars version of puffins."
Would be fun to get a pack-in porg somewhere in the 3.75" TLJ line... :D
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Some sort of Porgy and Bess reference?
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EW has a bunch of TLJ Stories coming this week...
The Last Jedi rules the galaxy as the cover of EW's Fall Movie Preview (http://ew.com/movies/2017/08/09/star-wars-last-jedi-ew-fall-movie-preview-cover)
Exclusive New Star Wars Images from The Last Jedi (with more to come!) (http://ew.com/movies/star-wars-the-last-jedi-exclusive-new-images)
I like this part... "Later this morning, we'll showcase the first images of some fearsome new protectors " well, the first images, except for all the toy images of the Elite Guards that have been leaking for the past two weeks. :P
edit - more story links:
Can Rey save Luke Skywalker from his own darkness? (http://ew.com/movies/2017/08/09/star-wars-last-jedi-rey-luke-skywalker-daisy-ridley-mark-hamill)
With Finn and Rose, a 'big deal' is redeemed by 'a nobody' (http://ew.com/movies/2017/08/09/star-wars-last-jedi-finn-rose-john-boyega-kelly-marie-tran)
Meet the porgs and 'The Caretakers' from Luke Skywalker's island (http://ew.com/movies/2017/08/09/star-wars-last-jedi-porgs-caretakers/)
Supreme Leader Snoke emerges with elite Praetorian Guard (http://ew.com/movies/2017/08/09/star-wars-last-jedi-snoke-praetorian-guard/)
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I'd rather have hoojibs than porgs.
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Magazine is at B&N today. Loving everything I'm hearing so far. Not hip on some of the designs, but no major gripes. I'm no longer surprised by the griping/complaining online from certain quarters, but always surprised by its sustainability. I shouldn't be, because it's primarily attributable to the marketability of the negativity itself. But so it goes.
Most of the HOW DARE THEY with Luke seems to ignore the premise of the last film. I like what they're doing. He's the Fisher King. Rey is the Knight Errant. The saber is the grail, perhaps, and Luke's rejuvenation will be the galaxy's. I totally buy Luke retreating from duty and from life after such a massive failure as he experienced with Kylo. He had accomplished this miracle with his father and defeating the Empire than he might have felt he could do anything, and as his Jedi fathers did before him, looked past some important stuff. Looking forward to the movie.
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In case you are one of the 5 people who haven't sen it yet......
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q0CbN8sfihY
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That might be a good movie. :P
Last scene is a fake out, the lighting doesn't even match.
After Rogue One, can we expect any of this to be in the final movie?
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Looking forward to it. Already got tickets for Thursday Night and Friday afternoon!
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That might be a good movie. :P
Last scene is a fake out, the lighting doesn't even match.
After Rogue One, can we expect any of this to be in the final movie?
100% agree on the fake out.
I gotta admit, I felt pretty disappointed after watching it. I came away feeling like this is a movie I do not really want to see. Looks like a whole lot of Kylo acting like a whiny doosh. And no one wants to see tired old, broken-down Luke. We want to see a full on Jedi Master kicking ass and taking names!
A bunch of exploding ships and random fight scenes....who really cares about Finn v Phasma...and no shots of Rose, DJ, Laura Dern, cool beasts or aliens, or any of the Praetorian Guards.
150 minutes and that's the best stuff they could pull out? How about the battle with the Knights of Ren? Or more stuff from Canto Bight?
I know I'm in a minority of 1 on this, I just feel like this did not give me anything new or exciting. :(
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That might be a good movie. :P
Last scene is a fake out, the lighting doesn't even match.
After Rogue One, can we expect any of this to be in the final movie?
The scene where Kylo shoots at the bridge Leia is on has to be a fakeout too, right?
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I've watched it half a dozen times and I think this trailer is kind of weak. I've got confidence that the movie will be good, but this trailer doesn't get me as excited as it should.
One small gripe - is it necessary to have the Falcon fly through an enclosed "tunnel" in every movie? Maybe that is a standard "I've got a bad feeling about this" element of the movies, but its getting stale.
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A bunch of exploding ships and random fight scenes....
To be fair, isn't this every SW trailer? ;)
I enjoyed it. This is the most fake out trailer of all time, though. I do think there is a distinct possibility that Rey and Kylo are headed in opposite directions. She may be drifting toward the dark side - Luke's reticence could push her toward another teacher - and Kylo may be leaning back toward the light. Or we could just get to the end of the movie and still know nothing about either of them. The Rey haters will be off the chart with this and the movie, because it's clear Rey is too. That makes sense, given her facility in TFA. She's also a far better 'candidate' for Snoke than Kylo, which I imagine we'll see play out.
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Looking at the trailer again, I’m guessing we’re never going to get a gorilla walker to scale with the BMF AT-AT.
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Probably not and in a sense they kinda blew it...Hasbro...though probably unintentionally/ unavoidably. Rogue One could've had the
food and beverage job Death Star play set (even though most of its features would be from ANH or ROTJ) like the current BB-8 star destroyer and then done the gorilla walker for Last Jedi. The AT-ACT would be easier to customize from an existing AT-AT's than gorilla monsoon walker will be.
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Looking at the trailer again, I’m guessing we’re never going to get a gorilla walker to scale with the BMF AT-AT.
lol that's like getting a to scale ATAT. :). Like completely 1/18-ish which is like a Great Dane.
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Seeing that AT-AT next to the AT-M6 was a bit of a surprise. The AT-M6 is least twice as tall, if not taller! And for a Hasbro AT-M6 to not look completely ridiculous, it would have to be around 4 feet tall. Something tells me that won't be happening. But on the walker front, it was also pretty cool seeing the First Order equivalent of the AT-ST in some of those hangar scenes.
On a totally unrelated note, it was cool seeing Rian Johnson paying a tiny bit of homage to the PT with one particular shot. Notably, the overhead angle of Kylo Ren leading some First Order Snowtroopers into some cave on Crait. That shot was incredibly reminiscent of Anakin Skywalker leading the 501st into the Jedi Temple in ROTS.
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Seeing that AT-AT next to the AT-M6 was a bit of a surprise. The AT-M6 is least twice as tall, if not taller! And for a Hasbro AT-M6 to not look completely ridiculous, it would have to be around 4 feet tall. Something tells me that won't be happening. But on the walker front, it was also pretty cool seeing the First Order equivalent of the AT-ST in some of those hangar scenes.
I think the FO AT-ST is a lot more doable. Unlike the AT-AT dropships you see in some of the backgrounds.
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Seeing that AT-AT next to the AT-M6 was a bit of a surprise.
That really should not have been a surprise for me to see the AT-AT. The poster that TRU handed out for MM had one between two M6s... I obviously didn't look at the poster too carefully that night (and I tucked it away when I got home and hadn't looked at it until today).
Also visible in the poster looks like an FO version of the TIE-Bomber, which I hadn't heard anyone talk about (I could have missed it).
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The Rey haters will be off the chart with this and the movie, because it's clear Rey is too.
Yeah, so that didn't take long:
http://www.jeditemplearchives.com/content/modules.php?name=JReviews&rop=showcontent&id=3076
::)
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Adam Driver may have let some hints/spoilers about Episode VIII slip in this British GQ article (http://www.gq-magazine.co.uk/article/adam-driver-star-wars-the-last-jedi).
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She better not be a princess from Naboo.
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I remain convinced she is 'royalty,' as her mother was.
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That'd be fine by me. Royalty plays a part in the entire series even if it's just some title that is more of a political post.
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I've had some thoughts recently about the subject of Rey's parentage, and how that plays into the story of TLJ and the broader sequel trilogy.
And it has to do with the rift between Han Solo and Leia. I'm beginning to think that Rey may be the child of either Han OR Leia, but not both. In TFA, we don't really get a sense of how long Han and Leia have been seperated. Is it possible that the cause of that rift may have been some sort of infidelity? And that Rey could be a child born from that infidelity? With the Han Solo movie coming this spring (with Emilia Clarke in the cast), I have to wonder... could Emilia Clarke's character be THE OTHER WOMAN in Han Solo's life? Because there's a little bit of a resemblance between Emilia Clarke and Daisy Ridley to the point that it has me wondering. And having both the Falcon AND Rey stranded on Jakku seem a bit... convenient, along with Han and Chewbacca finding the Falcon in the Jakku system.
I'm also wondering if Han may have at least had *SOME* degree of Force sensitivity. Not to the degree of being able to become a Jedi. But his luck and piloting abilities are far beyond those of most people. And that moment in TFA when he shot that First Order Stormtrooper without looking? Yeah, Han is cool. But the ability to do that seems a bit beyond the ability of normal people.
And on the subject of The Force... I've been struggling with one bit of the timeline in TFA. Specifically with the "awakening" that Snoke references when he speaks with Kylo Ren. Was Rey's escape from Jakku aboard the Falcon really an awakening?
And regarding Han Solo? I've also heard some theorizing about his confrontation with his son. As if Han knew how things were going to play out before he walked out onto that gantry on Starkiller base. Did Han realize that Ben needed to be even more powerful in order to confront Snoke? And did he ignite the lightsaber himself? I suspect that the conflict within Kylo Ren is very real. And that he may need to plunge himself further into the Dark Side in order to truly destroy Snoke.
Of course I could be totally wrong. But these are some theories I've been kicking around.
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I don't think infidelity will ever be a topic in a star wars movie. These are first and foremost kid movies. That topic is a little too adult here.
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I don't think infidelity will ever be a topic in a star wars movie. These are first and foremost kid movies. That topic is a little too adult here.
That angle was rumored to have been kicked around for ROTS, but seemed to have been abandoned. And it seemed like it was more about the suspicion of infidelity, than any real infidelity.
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I've seen a couple of reviews bemoan the Canto Bight sequence as somewhat lengthy and pointless, which I find interesting because I think for a lot of people this is one of the most anticipated segments going in. Between the toys and the book they have done a good job stoking the interest beforehand.
I'm a sucker for gratuitous alien weirdos though, so what do I know...
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I just got out... and immediately bought a ticket for a showing in an hour lol. This movie is GOOD. It's weird though, it doesn't "feel" like a Star Wars movie... maybe because they took everything we know about the series and completely flipped it upside down
Literally the only negative I have is that I thought the CGI on Yoda was really bad.
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Still trying to digest it all. Definitely a fan of the, as Diddly said, "flipped" stuff.
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I don’t believe Ren about Rey’s lineage.
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I don’t believe Ren about Rey’s lineage.
I hope you're wrong
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Wow, I thought some of it was really good, but a lot of choppy weirdness too. I need to sit on it and think through everything again, but for a SW movie this kind of felt like a hot mess.
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I’m with you jman. It wasn’t terrible, but it was really uneven and I’m leaning towards disappointed.
Gripes:
- bomber scene with WWII style bomb bay and gravity like bombs was weird.
- canto bight was completely pointless
- Laura dern and benicio del torro casting bugged
- the slow mo space chase was beyond comprehension with the worst being the kamikaze crashing of snokes ship. If it’s that easy to kill a big ship why didn’t they do that with the first two Death Stars?
- porgs
- the Luke and Rey training was weird
- goofy Yoda. Wtf
- BB-8 in a Scout Walker (and most scrnes with BB8)
Good things
- Rey and kylo dynamic
- Finn and rose dynamic
- battle vs the praetorians
Ultimately it was okay but after what I perceived to be awesome movies with TFA and RO this was a let down.
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Canto Bight was dumb. The porgs were forced. Definitely a choppy movie.
I really liked the Kylo and Rey stuff. And the Kylo and Snoke stuff. I also liked Luke's "issues".
They could have so easily had Kylo go another route and I'm glad they didn't.
I want to know more about Snoke
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Just got out too. Wow! There's a lot to process. A few shockers there. Namely Snoke. Unsure about Phasma's role. It seemed like they brought her back just to bring her back and give her the fight she should have had in TFA.
Oh! And who's idea was it to put a horror movie trailer before a Star Wars movie? My daughter was freaked out.
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I'm still trying to process a lot of what I saw, but I wasn't exactly blown away, at least in comparison to some of the hype I had seen leading up to the film. It was fun, and I enjoyed it for sure, but I thought overall Rogue One was a much better film.
Liked: space battles, all the new ships, even the absurdly large Imperial ones, Rose, the crazy ass chick from American Horror Story, Vice Admiral Holdo, all the weird Jedi stuff on Act-To
Didn't like: Something was off with del Toros performance and it left me feeling like he was wasted in that role, Hux morphing from fiery venom spewing fanatic to goofy punchline, Porgs (sorry, I tried to go in with an open mind, but it was all just too cutesy for me)
Loved: the Snoke swerve, Rey's parentage reveal, the battle with the Praetorian guards, Phasma getting offed, those bombers...
The humor felt a little forced in places to me, as it did in the last one, and there were a few pretty cringeworthy moments (Adam Driver shirtless I can't unsee) but overall I thought it set things up well for a very interesting third chapter. Luke and Leia were great I thought.
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I loved it. Really glad I went in fresh without any spoilers, especially on Yoda and Luke.
Loved the Kylo/Rey/Luke stuff. Loved the Snoke stuff. Loved pretty much everything, even the porgs. :D
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I just got back from the first showing and am still trying to process it all. It was an amazing film and a worthy sequel, IMHO. Like another member said, it felt different from the other Star Wars films, which I am GI e with. I did not want to see it be a straight up rehash of ESB - and while there were many parallels - it was not the same film in different clothing.
So what did I like? The space battles, the bombers and A-Wings in terms of the ships. I enjoyed the Finn/Rose paring, Poe squaring off with Holdo, the Rey/Kylo interactions, Rey/Luke interactions, and the fact that Luke was a grouchy old mess. Yoda’s ghost was the biggest surprise for me... Yeah he was goofy, but he was in ESB as well and the TLJ Yoda felt more like the OT version than what we say in the Prequels... Luke’s spiritual fight at the end was great.
That said, what did I not like? I felt the Canto Bight scene was not entirely necessary. The visuals were neat, just it seemed out of place. The Porgs and those peasant reptiles on Ach-To were forced as well. Glad Chewbacca cooked up a Porg, though! I was also really surprised they killed off Snoke so soon... For such a mysterious and powerful being, he met his end too quickly. Emperor Palpatine/Darth Sidious was a FAR better character. I also wasn’t too thrilled with how Leia got blow out into space, but somehow survived for however long and then used the Force to spirit herself back onto the ship... Just seemed a bit too much to me and she should have died right then and there! And Admiral Ackbar died!! I also wasn’t too thrilled with Benicio del Toro’s character, it felt under used, but I could see him showing up in the next film in some fashion...
But all that said, I did enjoy the movie and want to see it again.
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I have thought about this since last night. The only thing I didn't like was Canto Bight (and DJ subsequently being there forcefully), but I still feel disappointed. Not sure what to think of that......
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I fell like they worked very hard to erase a lot of things from TFA (Snoke, Resistance, destruction of Ren's helmet). I really liked the movie. I agree that the Canto Bight stuff was pure padding, but it did give us what will surely evolve into a Rey-Finn-Rose triangle for E9.
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I saw it last night and I'm still trying to process it. Like you, Jeff, I'm glad I went in spoiler free.
Overall, I thought it was a good movie, it definitely did not play it safe and I like the few surprises Rian threw in (Yoda, Snoke's demise, Kylo's conflict, etc). I agree to a point on the Canto Bight scenes...but didn't mind them at all. DJ's betrayal was kind of odd because I do not know how he had time to betray Rose and Finn....but he could have sent a communication while he was hacking terminals.
The opening scene with Luke was pretty great though.
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I share a lot of the Canto Bight sentiments...it really was there to build up the relationship of Rose and Finn but it fell flat...and made no sense. Why not have the hacker be part of the Resistence already and why not just have Finn use his FO knowledge to get into the ship...
I had a little trouble suspending disbelief on the slow moving get away and them just picking off ships one by one instead of full thruster assault or sending out their TIE fleet
The bombing run also had a little suspension of disbelief as well but it was still a cool sequence
Overall though I really really loved it
The 3 scenes I said mesmerized me on Twitter were:
Slicing the Super Duper Mega SD in two...it was awesome and I heard audible gasps in the audience when that happened
Luke getting bombarded by the Super Duper Mega AT-ATs at the end and coming out and brushing off his shoulder
Luke staring at the setting two suns on Ach-To was a fitting end to his physical story...can't wait to see how they use his force ghost in Episode IX
I've heard complaint about Yoda (that was my son's biggest gripe) and the Force Connection thing but I was OK with both
I don't believe Kylo in that Rey was abandoned by 2 drunks...I'm pretty sure the gave is hinting that she is like Anakin Skywalker "The New Chosen One" and was begotten, not made
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My initial reaction to the movie was, “Holy balls that was awesome!” which is true. I was quite impressed immediately. But there were some things that didn’t quite work for me and I see many others are saying quite to same thing.
Things I liked:
- I thought Finn was better in this film, not quite cowboy in his mannerisms as he was in TFA (which took me out of the film in TFA)
- The Dark Side Upside Down: Rey’s trippy walk through that realm was pretty cool, though not as dark as the Tree on Dagobah
- Rose: she made an interesting partner to Finn and I enjoyed her part.
- Yoda: I did not expect to see him show up.
- The Crait scene… the walkers were under-utilized though.
- Leia: a nice farewell film for her.
- It was good to see Luke again and some of the conflict he faced since Jedi. His powers were impressive in the end… but I don’t really understand the reason for his fate. What happened? It was simply his time? Expended too much force energy?
- Rey had some interesting conflict as well and ultimately had to face a decision with the course of her destiny and her past.
- The Rey/Kylo force facetimes.
- Porgs. (I guess poor Chewie feels bad about cooking one).
- Poe. One damn good pilot and some character development when Leia is teaching him one lesson after another, grooming him to be the military leader of the Rebellion. (aside: I actually thought it was Finn who would be in this role. From FO Stormtrooper to some General).
Whaaat? (questions and things I didn’t like):
- Snoke. I thought the Supreme Leader was supposed to be menacing and more powerful than Kylo Ren. Snoke obviously was more powerful than Rey in diverting her lightsaber by to him. Perhaps he was blinded in his glee to kill Rey. But I was surprised when Kylo killed him. And a bit saddened that we didn’t learn much about him and his origins.
- Pretty much all the “known” or recently introduced Resistance characters were killed off rather quickly. Goodbye, Snap. Farewell, Tallie. Well done, Paige. So long, Ackbar. Do svidania, Holdo.
- Speaking of deceased pilots, how did Kylo torpedo the hangar bay deep within some tube and manage to pull out without dying himself?
- The Mary Poppins moment: Leia’s force flight through space to get back to the ship. I thought that was probably the end of her.
- The Phasma curse: Badass Phasma, who’s only in the movie for about 5 minutes, gets bested again by Finn and dies (not by Finn). Probably the worst Star Wars villain ever written. I feel this character had so much potential, but was left lacking, and I feel bad for Gwendoline Christie that her role was reduced to such garbage. This battle between her and Finn should have been at least a draw or Finn losing to be save by Rose or BB-8 and resolved next round… that is if the writers actually give Phasma an interesting role.
- Speaking of Phasma, how come that hangar is all but destroyed around Finn and Rose and they are the only survivors? Where did the rest of the people go? Phasma, who was right next to them comes march across the bay later.
- The Hux? What happened to his character? He was fanatical and self-assured in TFA. It seemed like he came across as incompetent this time and the butt of the jokes.
- The Resistance can easily take out the huge Destroyers. Just one bomber can do the trick.
- And why didn’t the support Destroyers do anything at all during this whole movie besides look menacing.
- Chewie and Artoo are under-utilized.
- The need to kill off one of the main three in the new movies.
- Canto Bight. Why were we there again? Seems too long and not much happens. Also, during the chase scene and they are running through casinos… where are all the patrons?? Every room they went through was empty, except the one gambler that kept feeding BB-8 coins.
- DJ. I’m not sure where I sit on this character. It just explained why he’s turned on Rose and Finn. And because of the decision to go with DJ instead of their ‘target’, their mission fails.
- Maz: her scene ended up useless in the end and kind of seemed forced. It was too distracting watching her hologram as she’s fighting some unseen foe.
- According to Yoda, Rey really didn’t need any tutelage from Luke. She understands it, so she’ll figure it out.
- Tracking Resistance ships in hyperspace: I wish this was explained better at how this was accomplished.
- Resistance ship’s shields are stronger than being bombarded by FO warships?? I find it hard to believe when the FO has the tech to trace their ships through hyperspace.
- Yoda and his silly antics: he behaved crazy on Dagobah to test Luke, but why now?
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I don't believe Kylo in that Rey was abandoned by 2 drunks...I'm pretty sure the gave is hinting that she is like Anakin Skywalker "The New Chosen One" and was begotten, not made
I would 100% be okay with her being from two anonymous dead drunks. I think at times Star Wars tries to tie too many things together in some pseudo-logical manner. If she has a royal Jedi lineage they'll have to spend half a movie explaining why she was left behind, etc. and I'm not sure its relevant or critical to the story. I kind of like that she is from nowhere, has Jedi powers, and wants to be part of the battle against evil.
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BTW did Fox still have all of the rights to A New Hope Aliens? I understand Abrams Edwards and Johnson all want to make their own new freaky designs but NOT including Rodians or Aquilish just seems weird...Canto Bight would have resonated a little more for me with some familiar "faces" in the crowd
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I don’t believe Ren about Rey’s lineage.
I don't either. Ive always assumed she won in TFA because he knows who she really is and wouldn't Slaughter her similar to Vader fighting Luke on bespin. If his statements about her parents are true from this movie verbatim then they got a pretty dumb plot hole going on.
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The thing I struggle with Kylo knowing about her parentage is why would he know it and Luke wouldn't? If she were a child that was part of the Jedi training crew Luke would remember her. If Kylo Ren can figure something out with the force, don't you think Luke could?
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What was with the last scene with the kids and the "you can join the Rebellion too" vibe? I'm not sure the point of the children on Canto Bight. I guess Disney needed to show that kids can help the Rebellion too.
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What was with the last scene with the kids and the "you can join the Rebellion too" vibe? I'm not sure the point of the children on Canto Bight. I guess Disney needed to show that kids can help the Rebellion too.
I wasn't 100% sure, but didn't that kid use the force to pick up the broom?
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I believe he used the force to get the broom. I took that as the point.
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Wasn't there a Captain Phasma with removable helmet announced for a future figure wave? Or was that just a custom figure?
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What was with the last scene with the kids and the "you can join the Rebellion too" vibe? I'm not sure the point of the children on Canto Bight. I guess Disney needed to show that kids can help the Rebellion too.
I wasn't 100% sure, but didn't that kid use the force to pick up the broom?
I caught that on my second viewing today.
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I don’t believe Ren about Rey’s lineage.
I don't either. Ive always assumed she won in TFA because he knows who she really is and wouldn't Slaughter her similar to Vader fighting Luke on bespin. If his statements about her parents are true from this movie verbatim then they got a pretty dumb plot hole going on.
I took it like this - it's all about point of view. If Ben Solo were to see his Great-grandmother Shmi Skywalker in a vision w/o the context of her being his Great-grandmother, how would he describe her to someone if he wanted to be cruel? Probably as a "worthless slave" (or similar).
I think that is exactly what Ben was doing there, trying to bring out her anger at the insinuation that her parents were scum.
What if, just like Anakin was born of Shmi via the force, Rey was born of her mother via the force? It's also entirely possible with how strongly the Dark Side calls to Rey that perhaps, just like it was strongly hinted at that Darth Plagueis manipulated the midichlorians to create life, what if Darth Sidious had learned how to do the same?
At that point, where Rey came from is just as unimportant as where Anakin came from - and a name is just a name, the cycle continues and the force seeks to create a balance.
The more and more I think about The Last Jedi, I feel that more and more people are going to come around over time to the opinion that it is one of the best Star Wars movies ever made and unlike the PT which had at times a very cookie-cutter approach to the plot, this was the movie that allowed for movies about Star Wars to be de-focused on the Skywalker lineage. You can't keep going back to the Anakin/Darth Vader/Luke well - you just can't - this movie took the hand it was dealt from The Force Awakens and essentially smashed the well.
So yeah, the Force Vision from Maz's castle is probably going to be a HUGE misdirect. It's entirely possible that what she saw was a vision born of traces of force energy left behind by those who were in possession of the saber.
And at the end of the day, I applaud Rian Johnson for breaking the saber during the climax of the Rey/Ben duel. The saber itself merely has the distinction of being Anakin's at the end of the Clone Wars and the saber he was wielding when Obi-Wan defeated him on Mustafar. When Obi-Wan gave it to Luke he romanticized it's origin and why he was giving it to Luke because you don't tell someone's son "hey um yeah, so the last time I saw your father without all of the mechanical stuff keeping his burnt husk of a body alive, was when we fought over your mother on a lava planet and after I cut off his legs and remaining flesh-and-blood arm, I took this from him" - doesn't exactly have the same ring as "your father wanted you to have this when you were old enough, but your Uncle wouldn't allow it".
So while not as "in your face" as the ANH/ESB twist was, the TFA/TLJ twist was more refined:
ANH - Darth Vader killed your father
ESB - Darth Vader is your father
TFA - Kylo Ren betrayed his master Luke Skywalker and destroyed the new Jedi Academy
TLJ - Ben Solo destroyed the Jedi Academy because Luke Skywalker failed in controlling (and eliminating) the darkness growing within Ben
I am genuinely excited to see this movie at least four or five more times before the end of the year...
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I LOVED this movie. I have a few gripes. I'll come back to them and coherent thoughts once brain re-solidifies.
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Ackbar's death deserved more hoopla.
I already miss that lobster
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Isn't the whole point of the cave reveal that She asked to see her parents and she is shown herself...which could mean on a base level that she took care of herself and doesn't need her parents but I took it as a deeper meaning in that she has no parents and was of the force and the true Chosen One in a way Anakin never could have been...the force willed an Evil one now it willing a Good and Chosen one to restore Peace/Light/Love etc what all of this death and destruction brought on by one poor decision by one misguided Boy who had mommy issues and a forbidden wife
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I think you're onto something Pete. I have now had over 24 hours to digest and am feeling much more positive about the movie.
I think it was a shock to the system at first.
Though I will fight to the death that Canto Bight was just bad.
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Ok, let's do this.
Again, I loved this movie. This is without a doubt the best SW movie since ESB. Not the best movie - though moments of it are without peer. Rian Johnson deserves a bow, and all the credit in the world for taking huge risks.
A lot of folks complained about the re-hashing in TFA. I was one of them. One of the benefits of it was to set up expectations that this film absolutely knocked down. The greatest example - and perhaps in all of SW - is the death of Snoke and Kylo's leaning in to the dark side. An outstanding sequence, staged and shot perfectly, that induces absolute whiplash. But it's the only way it can be. Kylo can't be turned; Luke says it. He's evil. He wrestles with his emotions, and his impulses, but he is who he is. He wants Rey - he may have some love for her, on some level - but only as an object. Like Vader's helmet was an object. Luke's saber.
On that note, I accept the Rey's parents reveal, but hold out there could be a late inning substitution. I expected her to see Leia's reflection in the mirror, and when she saw herself, I had the same thought Scott did - she may be like Anakin. Probably not, but we'll see. I felt she got a little lost post-HOLY **** THRONE ROOM DUEL and I wonder what she learned in this movie. Her parents were nobodies and never coming back? She already knew that. She's self made and self reliant? She already knew that, and a scavenger par excellence - she made off with the Jedi texts Luke thought Yoda had burned.
YODA! One of the greatest scenes in the saga. So much truth and wisdom. Yoda is a puppet in this scene.
Leia. I loved all of it, including the Glenda the Good Witch bit. The tragedy of not having Leia for IX, of seeing her grow into the Force... her absence leaves this trilogy broken. It can't be fixed.
Mark Hamill deserves an Oscar. Performance of his life. 'That's a cheap shot.'
Adam Driver is perfect. "SHOOT THAT SHIP OUT OF THE SKY!" The petulant, childish rage... perfect.
Holdo's sacrifice and the stunning visual of the destruction of the FO fleet - gasps in the theater.
Didn't like so much -
Luke didn't NEED to die. I accept it. But if they could stop killing my heroes at the end of every movie, that'd be great. He'll be back, and probably for more than we think, but the death steps on the toes of the all time fake out of the projection from the island.
Canto Bight - liked bits and pieces. Went on way too long.
Maz.
I don't know if I was sold on Rose knocking Finn out of his death run.
That's all for now.
LOVED it.
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;D ;DLoved the film ;D ;D
Already been said many things about likes and dislikes, So i will not address most of those-that being said ESB was my prior favorite to this film.
The Canto situation I feel was necessary-I feel they had to "go somewhere" to make the time up for the situation of their mother ship losing fuel. The "codemaster" character was actually my second favorite in the film, Rose my #1. Rose's sister I felt was awesome as well even for her short time.
I had a theory going for this film prior to its release and I feel it's still in play....Albeit tweaking after viewing this film.
My theory is that Ren will be turned good while Rey*gasp* will be turned dark. Been thinking this for probably since I have been watching trailers for the film and studying the last film.
Disney have been doing 2 things...making you "unlearn what you have learned" (about the force and its components) while at the same time they are paralleling allot with the new characters VS the old. They are setting us UP! The surprise finish is coming.
After watching this movie, I feel Luke will have a huge role as an antagonist ghost doing everything he can to bring KR to the light(remember his promise in the suedo battle on Krayt? it was paralleling SANS obi wan to Vader in EP4) instead of supporting ghost it will be a ghost influencing for turn....He will take his priority and eye from Rey while he works on Ren....there will be a big battle between the two(duel of the fates2??)Where it will be then exposed that Rey is already Dark...seduced by Snoke's ghost(yes, Disney doing something diff and giving a Sith ghost)...suddenly Ben will turn to the light to restore balance.
So crazy/not drinking/ but cannot get the idea outta my head!
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This film made me rethink events that happened in EP4. When Luke and Yoda die, they "disappear" into the force and just their clothes left around.
The other Jedi in films just die regular. I remember Yoda telling Obi Wan about Qui Gonn's path to "enlightenment"(EP2 or 3)...is this Enlightenment the ghost apparition/second life IN the force?
This all makes me rethink the way Obi wan died VS Vader. I never felt this way before but....its like he achieved peace and actually died a split second before Vaders blade connected?!
Disney didnt surprise me with Luke's death. I knew it was coming after his KR battle soon. When i saw him looking into the sun I knew...but of course there were alot of gasps of shocked folk.
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Was that the Jedi sacred books in the drawer of the Falcon? Rey took them before she left?
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Was that the Jedi sacred books in the drawer of the Falcon? Rey took them before she left?
Yup. :)
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Was that the Jedi sacred books in the drawer of the Falcon? Rey took them before she left?
Yup. :)
And Yoda knew it when he said something like "Has with her already what she needs"
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Smart cookie, that Yoda.
One thing I was thinking about this morning - I don't have any major issue with the depiction of Luke's 'attempt' to kill Ben at the temple. I liked the Roshomon aspect of how it was presented, and how it re-contextualized Ben's fall. I don't like the staging though. It may be semantics, but Luke hovering over his bed as he slept doesn't feel very Luke Skywalker. I appreciate this movie challenging our views of him, but this just felt strange. Approaching Ben from behind as he was meditating, or training, perhaps would have been my personal choice. I also would have liked just a bit more of justification on Luke's part of what was so horrifying that he saw that he could not foresee any redemption for Ben. Luke had saved his father; he had accomplished this impossible thing. This emboldened him, obviously, and led to his hubris with Ben. Why not again? Just a little bit - an image, a suggestion, something.
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WOW....
I went to see THE LAST JEDI yesterday after I got out of work. And I'm still trying to process it all. Luke's line "This is not going to go the way you think" pretty much summed up the entire movie for me.
I had expectations going into this movie. And frankly, I was glad to see that it was not predictable. There were certainly some recurring themes that got revisited, but this was an interesting take on things. Rian Johnson took a bit of a deeper dive on the characters as well as The Force itself. And just what does it mean to be a Jedi?
A lot of my own expectations seem to have been tied up in the cliffhanger ending of THE FORCE AWAKENS. I thought that perhaps Rey was going to dive right into training with Luke, and that he would welcome her, and ask her where she got that lightsaber. And he really did anything but that. His dismissiveness where he tossed the lightsaber aside was a big indicator of where Luke's head was at right away. I think a lot of what went wrong with Luke's new generation of Jedi is that he looked to THE PAST. He sought out all of this knowledge of the Jedi Order. But if the PT taught us anything, it's that the Jedi Order was a victim of its own pride and hubris. It became more concerned about protecting the institution of the Order rather than listening to the Force. Maybe Qui-Gon Jinn was right? The Force Spirit of Yoda certainly seemed more prepared to let go of the past and move forward. And I loved his line about the ancient texts not being a great read!
I also feel like the movie helped carry the concept of the First Order forward in a significant way. In the OT the Empire was always presented as this monolithic military presence. We didn't really get a sense of the society that would exist under such a government. It took the entire PT to understand how the Empire came to be, and then we still didn't get a grasp on what life was like under the Empire. But now? The Canto Bight scenes really helped to establish what the First Order government means to society: a well to do upper class that indulges in an opulent life, a put upon lower class of workers/servants and corrupt police were all wrapped up to give us a sense of it all.
And it was also good to see that there WERE some Imperial holdovers in the First Order. Captain Cannady who commanded the First Order Dreadnought was a former Imperial. And Captain Peavey, who was aboard the Snoke's ship the Supremacy was another former Imperial. I only learned that because I picked up the Visual Dictionary...
Overall I saw this movie as being a great transitional point for a number of characters: Luke, Rey, Finn, Poe, Leia and Kylo Ren all developed in unexpected ways. And again, I think we're left with more questions than answers. On the point of Rey's parents? That seems like it's going to continue to be a mystery, even after she went through the mirror test in the cave.
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BTW did Fox still have all of the rights to A New Hope Aliens? I understand Abrams Edwards and Johnson all want to make their own new freaky designs but NOT including Rodians or Aquilish just seems weird...Canto Bight would have resonated a little more for me with some familiar "faces" in the crowd
I picked up the Art of TLJ yesterday and noted all of Canto Bight concept art scene paintings DO contain Rodians Twi'lek and Gran etc. So, they made an obvious choice or due to rights (again much like Abrams) decided to exclude any OT aliens...it's just sort of weird especially after Lucas did that in the PT all over the place
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I don't see what rights Fox has (had) to any of the SW characters / iconography. They have distribution rights to the original SW film. That's all. Well, not all - they also had theatrical, nontheatrical, and home video rights worldwide for the five subsequent films before Disney took over. That was due to end in 2020 and would have, regardless of the Disney/Fox merger.
ANH they would have had the distribution rights on forever, but is now moot.
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Ok, after two screenings and two days to reflect, I still like the film. It's hard to rank though, as the Disney films still don't feel like "true Star Wars films" and thus I don't know if I could accurately rank them among Episodes 1-6.
Love the Holdo character and the entire bit with her sacrifice (but what was with the entire hangar being blown to hell but Finn and Rose are all fine?). Loved the ending shot with the kid using the Force to sweep. Loved the intro battle and how easily the slow bombers got blown to bits. I enjoyed the one liners even if some of them felt a bit forced.
My favorite part of the movie? Hux overlooking the damage to Snoke's throne room and pulling his pistol out, then putting it away when Kylo wakes up.
I still think the CGI was embarrassingly bad. I mentioned Yoda (though he looks better as that scene goes on) but the green screen backgrounds were painfully obvious as well. George Lucas would have never put out SFX that looked that shoddy. I thought Snoke was the only thing that felt complete.
Agreed that the casino needed some of the classic aliens. Not even any Twi'lek side pieces? I remember reading that Disney wanted new aliens to show how big the galaxy is, but whatever they put in the casino felt pretty uninspired. Canto Bight would have been a perfect opportunity for a Lando cameo too.
Christopher Reeve Superman Leia is weirder the more I think about it.
I think my biggest complaint outside of the CGI is that it felt more like a conclusion than a middle part of a story. After seeing TFA I had so many theories (and wanted to read everybody else's theories) about the characters and where they would go. Now? I don't really care. I'm fine with Rey's parents being nobodies, but that just opens up a huge can of worms regarding why the Skywalker lightsaber called to her, among other plot holes. The only true question I have now is "do Poe and Rey bang."
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I finally saw it tonight.
Overall I THINK I really enjoyed it, but I need to think about it some more. A lot of things didn't work for me, and since those things were more obvious to me, I'm going to start with those:
- First and foremost, Canto Blight. Everything about that felt lifted from the prequels to me, never mind that the entire mission didn't advance the plot in any way whatsoever other than to put Finn on a path to fight with Phasma, who also is basically a big fancy throwaway, played by an actress that could have been ANYONE since you never saw her face.
- BB-8 doing TOO DAMN MUCH... I draw the line at firing up an AT-ST out of left field.
- Luke having a temper tantrum and filling up his milk jug / catching a fish - super weird and unnecessary.
- Leia being blown out into space and not dying. Finn giving himself up to wreck that cannon and not dying... Luke NOT giving himself up, but... dying?
- And I'm mixed about how they off'd Snoke. On one hand, didn't see that coming until a few seconds before, so that's great, on the other hand - who the **** was he, we learned pretty much nothing about him whatsoever.
- Also, I get the darkest-before-dawn thing, and I get that the resistance is small... but the idea that those twenty or so people who have basically been failing all over the galaxy are 'the spark' and needed saving, when no one was coming to help them strikes me as silly.
- Domhnall Gleeson, who I think is a phenomenal actor, is pretty awful in these. He's too over-the-top, and just too young to be believable as the leader of this enormous army... maybe that's why they keep losing to little tiny band of rebels...
- They made such a big deal out of the Knights of Ren in the first one, maybe they're saving them for the third, but I expected we'd learn something about them too.
- Lastly, I'm flat out pissed that Admiral Ackbar was kept around only to be blown out of a hole in the bridge so unceremoniously and then you only confirm that that had happened with one passing line of dialogue.
Overall I enjoyed most of it, thought it was action packed, LOVED seeing Luke again... but where does this thing go? Rey v. Ben I suppose... but that one felt like the end of a trilogy, not the bridge.
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George Lucas would have never put out SFX that looked that shoddy.
Did you miss the entire prequel trilogy?
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BB-8 doing TOO DAMN MUCH... I draw the line at firing up an AT-ST out of left field.
Might be a little too much BB-8 - the machine gun coin bit in the jail was officially too much on the third viewing - but I had no problem with the AT-ST. He can repair, prime and I assume fly an X-Wing.
On one hand, didn't see that coming until a few seconds before, so that's great, on the other hand - who the **** was he, we learned pretty much nothing about him whatsoever.
They could have thrown us a bone on his backstory, knowing we'll never revisit it now. Clearly was present during the OT and PT, given his age. If he was a remote character out beyond the Uncharted Regions as some have speculated, he would have had no knowledge or interest in Vader. TLJ makes him out to be a Vader fanboy almost as much as Kylo.
- They made such a big deal out of the Knights of Ren in the first one, maybe they're saving them for the third, but I expected we'd learn something about them too.
I think we did - Luke tells Rey that Kylo burned the temple and 'vanished with a handful of students.' Didn't kill them. He took them. Why? For a minute I thought one of these kids was Rey, but apparently not. The vision of the Knights Rey sees in TFA in the rain was clearly not the past or the attack on the temple, but likely the future.
I think the end will be definitely Rey vs. Kylo, and Knights of Ren vs. Rey's New School Jedi.
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Yoda was a physical puppet in this one. He was a little strange looking though. A cg Yoda would have been better. Frank Oz did the voice but not the puppetry.
Super Leia in space was done before in Guardians of the Galaxy when Star Lord rescued Gamora. He lived. Leia has the Force and used it to save herself.
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BTW did Fox still have all of the rights to A New Hope Aliens? I understand Abrams Edwards and Johnson all want to make their own new freaky designs but NOT including Rodians or Aquilish just seems weird...Canto Bight would have resonated a little more for me with some familiar "faces" in the crowd
I picked up the Art of TLJ yesterday and noted all of Canto Bight concept art scene paintings DO contain Rodians Twi'lek and Gran etc. So, they made an obvious choice or due to rights (again much like Abrams) decided to exclude any OT aliens...it's just sort of weird especially after Lucas did that in the PT all over the place
There seems to have been a concious choice to include some different aliens in places like Jakku, Canto Bight and Takodana in the ST so far. Part of me has written it off as this being a different part of the galaxy from the OT and PT. And for the most part these might be aliens from systems that are associated with the First Order.
It's also worth noting that we DID see some familiar aliens turn up in ROGUE ONE. There were Aqualish (Ponda Baba), at least one Twi'lek (Beezer Fortuna), Mon Calamari, etc.
I suspect that with the Resistance making their way to the Outer Rim for Episode IX, maybe we're going to see some more familiar alien species moving forward. I think this may have been a story driven decision.
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I think we did - Luke tells Rey that Kylo burned the temple and 'vanished with a handful of students.' Didn't kill them. He took them. Why? For a minute I thought one of these kids was Rey, but apparently not. The vision of the Knights Rey sees in TFA in the rain was clearly not the past or the attack on the temple, but likely the future.
I think the end will be definitely Rey vs. Kylo, and Knights of Ren vs. Rey's New School Jedi.
Yeah, but it's thin. All we learned about them was what we'd pretty much figured out before. No idea where they are, if they survived, if Kylo Ren has disciples of his own right now?
Ultimately to me this movie felt more like Episode 7 Part 2... it picks up exactly where the old one left off and takes place over the course of basically one day.
I suppose it's an important day, and big stuff happens on it, but to me this entire conflict feels to localized. If Episode 9 is going to revolve around Ren's knights and Rey's Jedi, then they're going to have to let some time actually pass between those two episodes... which I'd prefer.
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These are definitely two parts of the same movie, which is a very TV episode structure that JJ imposed on it with the cliffhanger end to TFA. It's different, but it's limiting, compared to previous films.
We definitely need to have some time pass between 8 and 9. Especially in light of Carrie Fisher; I think the only thing they can do is have Leia pass between the films. She died perhaps of her injuries in this movie, or something else. And then we see her and Luke together at the end of the film as Force ghosts. Otherwise a CGI Leia or recast Leia would be too much of a distraction.
The story is broken. Leia won't be picking up where Luke left off and become perhaps the matriarch of a new Jedi circle. She won't be achieving any closure with her son. There's nothing to be done about it. It sucks.
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- And I'm mixed about how they off'd Snoke. On one hand, didn't see that coming until a few seconds before, so that's great, on the other hand - who the **** was he, we learned pretty much nothing about him whatsoever.
Personally, I don't think we're done with Snoke just because he's dead.
There is a theory floating around that Snoke is The First Jedi - the mosaic on the floor where the drops of water had formed a pool and Luke tells Rey about the hubris of the Jedi Order, is a depiction of "the Prime Jedi, the first of the Order, in a state of meditation and balance" - that's from the Visual Guide of The Last Jedi. The prime jedi looks a lot like Snoke.
In The Force Awakens, Han Solo says about Luke - "People who knew him best think he went looking for the first Jedi Temple"
And then finally in the visual guide of the The Force Awakens, in a description of Snoke it says "Snoke disguises his true nature"
If the Jedi Temple on Ahch-to is indeed the first Jedi Temple, and the mosaic is a depiction of Snoke, the first Jedi, one who could balance both the Light and the Dark, there is definitely more that we'll learn about Snoke in the future.
Heck, what if Rian Johnson's new trilogy is about the start of the Jedi Order itself and we'll get confirmation of all of this in that saga?
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Yoda was a physical puppet in this one.
Interesting. I wasn't sure if it was a physical puppet or CG made to look like a puppet. Not a biggie, and I'm all for homage, but I prefer those be more subtle or reminiscent. (Loved the Hardware Wars reference.)
Super Leia in space was done before in Guardians of the Galaxy when Star Lord rescued Gamora. He lived. Leia has the Force and used it to save herself.
I thought about that, too, when Leia's fingers moved. I think a labored drift back would have been more effective. Even in a fantasy with force speed and force jump, the Mary Poppins flight was too much of a WTF.
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I can see people wanting something more subtle from the Leia moment, to each their own, but I loved it. I actually thought of Glinda from Wizard of Oz; it's an amazing, wonderful moment that's made even more so considering the circumstances.
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Almost a day later... I did enjoy the movie. I hesitate to judge it too harshly until we see how it fits, or doesn't, with Episode 9, but I do think it had some pretty serious flaws. I probably won't see it again for another week, but I think this review sums up what I've been thinking today...
'Star Wars: The Last Jedi' Delights And Disappoints (https://www.forbes.com/sites/danidiplacido/2017/12/15/review-star-wars-the-last-jedi-delights-and-disappoints/#739d00d04400)
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I've seen it twice now and I did like it. There are the serious plot holes and WTF parts of the movie, but overall I was more engaged in this movie than any of the prequels. In the second viewing several things are more clear. I'm sure there will be even more enlightening moments the more I see it.
Couple things I caught the second time through I hadn't seen mentioned previously:
The kid on Canto Blight at the end with the broom, his shadow makes it look like he's holding a lightsaber. Thought that was a nice addition to his use of the force to grab the broom.
Yoda's statement about there being nothing in the tree that Rey doesn't already possess was lost on me in the first viewing but made perfect sense the second time through.
Really looking forward to IX now and hoping that 'Solo' isn't a big let-down between now and then.
George Lucas would have never put out SFX that looked that shoddy.
Did you miss the entire prequel trilogy?
+1 :)
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I too watched it for a second time this weekend. My first viewing left me disappointed, but I enjoyed the second viewing much, much more. I don't know if I went in the second time with re-calibrated expectations or was just in a better mood.
As I said, I enjoyed it a lot more the second time around, but am still bugged by the Canto Bight / DJ / Finn/Rose side adventure, as well as the slow-mo space chase. I can live with the slo-mo space chase as a really weak plot device, but the whole Canto Bight stuff was completely unnecessary. That part should have been edited out and more time should have been spent elsewhere - Rey/Luke interaction, or Rey/Kylo interaction, or maybe even just a shorter movie.
I didn't catch a whole lot more the second time around, other than looking for the Jedi texts on the Falcon and paying closer attention to the Yoda/Luke dialog.
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Saw it twice this weekend, and loved it. As some others have said, I liked it even more the second time. I think maybe because there was just so much to take in. So glad I avoided spoilers, the payoff was much better I think. It just seemed so different than the other Star Wars movies, but not in a bad way. I can see the point about Canto Bight basically being pointless, but I also didn't mind it (and I want toys of the falthier beast). I thought Mark Hamill was amazing in this movie. Bummed to see Luke "become one with the force", but thought it was done very well. I was sort of hoping to see him leave the island (for real), and get in on the action, but this was very cool as well. I can see why reaction is a little mixed on the Leia "force fly" moment, but it worked for me, and seeing my daughters reaction to it makes it even better. Really interested to see where they go in 9 now. Also, lots more action figures I hope we get.
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The second viewing is usually better once you see the more clever details. I still don't like the kids with the over exaggerated expressions and broom kid. That felt like pandering to the kids in the audience. Otherwise I really liked it.
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I got in to the 8Am showing this morning. I really liked the movie and despite some of the complaints I've read, and even agree with, I rank it behind on ESB and very slightly ahead of R1 in terms of how much I enjoyed it.
I hated seeing Luke go, but loved the way they did it. I really wanted to see more from him. It sucks that we won't get a good Leia send off.
I wish the Rey/Luke aspect would have been explored a bit more in place of some of the goofy humor. I thought the Finn/Rose side mission was kind of dumb, but can get past it.
I'm not sure why Phasma was even a character in either movie? It was a wasted character who didn't prove to be any sort of ruthless badass or anything at all.
I was underwhelmed by Snoke. Yep, definite bad guy, definitely was under played. I did think it was cool that Kylo knocked him off, but thought it was kind of cheap the way it was done. Of course, it was a needed plot device in order to push Kylo onward.
Anyway, I thought the overall story was fantastic. I like that the actors in these movies have much, much better chemistry than anything we saw in the PT.
That's just some of my thoughts for the moment. Maybe I'll come back and add more if I get a chance to see it again soon.
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I wasn't able to catch it till Saturday with some old school buddies and that was kind of nice in a way, not forcing myself out in the middle of the week to see a premiere... at the same time I didn't want to get spoiled on social media so that was something of a dangerous adventure. :-\
I tried to read through everyone's thoughts and things...
Me, I loved it. I thought it was fantastic. I'd not been as attached to the ST as I was the PT and even more so, the OT. This film was able to take the ST above the PT for me in overall hierarchy, and that was what I was hoping for kind of. I don't hate the PT but it's not held up as well for me and I'm ok not watching it when it's on TV. I'm not compelled to flick it on for some reason. I felt TLJ improved on TFA, and made it a better film with more depth. I felt that wait paid off.
That said, some sort of separated thoughts...
-The Battles... Crait, Space, etc. I loved them all. The Ski Speeders as a holdover to the OT and even the PT era was great. Poe putting his foot through the floor of his? c'mon! That was funny. Maybe you have to work on rusted out POS cars semi-frequently to enjoy that? I dunno, but I've literally had that happen in a vehicle, and so I actually lol'd at that moment. It was funny to me. Plus it made me appreciate Hasbro's work on that ship more too. That thing's pretty damn nice as Hasbro vehicle toys go, especially these days. Glad I got that while it was super cheap on Amazon.
-Kylo/Rey Force dynamic... I loved every scene they were sharing across the galaxy with one another. It took Leia/Luke's or Vader/Luke's connection a step further within the force. I loved it, and Driver is the (no pun) driving force of acting in this series I feel. He's their Ford. He plays Kylo Ren perfectly, every scene.
-Subtleties... Hux trying to draw his blaster, the FO ship commanders, the crewmen dialogue with Kylo... Even the humor, which I'm seeing a lot of complaining about. It's a more modern take on humor I think, trying to move this series out of the Lucas era. I think it makes sense when you're making a new movie for a new audience in a way. Some of it can feel meh, and I remember the same basic sentiments during Poe's "who talks first?" lines with Kylo Ren in TFA, but to me even if it's not something that resonates with me as much as maybe the kids or younger audience, it's better than Jar Jar stepping in ****, or forced rehashed lines from the OT so you remember it's Star Wars and everyone says the same joke over and over.
-Porgs... I loved 'em. From Chewie's first interaction with them, sadly, all the way to his adoption of a ton of them. I was more than happy. I was happy to see them establishing an eco system in general for Ach To... It was pretty cool how they did it.
-The Force Weirdness... I loved everything from Kylo/Rey talking, to Rey's journey, to Luke's change in demeanor from ROTJ, to Yoda's appearance, to Leia having some ability (finally) beyond talking telepathically, etc. I though the Force was taken from the Lucas PT-era science class back to its roots as a mystical energy. I liked that they went to old words from Yoda/Luke to get that aspect of Star Wars back on track and off midichlorian counts. I felt this was a much more "spiritual" film that way, like how ESB felt for many younger viewers when it was out. That's just me maybe, I don't know, but I really enjoyed that it felt like The Force was back to how I grew up with it, and not how the PT kind of took it. Lucas was going to this mystical area sort of with The Clone Wars, and then after the buyout I think they expanded on it further, but this film did a better job of resetting it than I think anyone could've hoped for that missed that aspect of it after the PT.
-Snoke... I thought it was edgy to do what they did. I hope there's answers as to who/what he is/was.
-Praetorian Battle... Fantastic. Best saber work in any film IMHO, and was an epic scene. I feel like it was one of the more iconic scenes in the saga, at this point.
-Luke/Kylo Fight... Again, same as above, I felt it was an iconic moment. Luke's death was as perfect as they could've made it too, I think, and I do hope we have him back... some more Yoda would be nice too. Hell, a lil Kenobi sprinkled in, I'd appreciate as well.
-Rey's parentage... I'm with others who don't quite believe Kylo on that. Plus apparently Snoke was manipulating the whole sequence too. I can take her parents being nobodies, her being born of the force, whatever. I feel like this isn't a closed storyline just yet though.
-Poe's dynamic with BB8. Like a boy and his dog, I appreciate it even though it's a seemingly minor/side argument.
-Chewie/Rey showing up and lighting up TIE Fighters. I loved that whole sequence, and Kylo's reaction was fantastic. Just as his assault on Luke from the walkers was great too. But the Falcon showing up in the nick of time is what the Falcon does, no matter who is flying it. And again, I loved the Porgs. They're not the most elaborate or complex humor but I thought they were funny.
Not a ton I didn't like, and nothing that I really hated or loathed... I will say, Canto Bight was fairly pointless. I mean I can see the end result, the kid with the broom, the way wealth is built from war and oppression of the weak... And there are similar stories throughout the entire saga. Jyn's past, Luke's past, Anakin's past, Han's past, slavery, Ewoks, The Old Republic politics, and so on... You can find these things blatantly, subtly, and in between throughout.
But Canto Bight was long, forced into an already long film (152 minutes I think?), and not really a necessity to get the same point across. They could've used established characters and not needed "DJ" to get the same effect really. And saved money on Benecio Del Torro's contract. Which he felt like a huge waste but it was interesting that he was just a dude and got his money and left. That was interesting and I'd kind of like to hear what their intent was with his character overall. Whatever though.
Phasma is the Boba Fett of this series and that's kinda lame? I guess as lame as Boba is anyway. Which to a lot of people is not at all, but yeah, just lame use of her. The fight with Finn was cool, but it was still brief.
I've heard a lot of complaints about the "slow speed chase", but for me that's just naval warfare in Star Wars (and really it worked similarly on Earth)... Lando tells Ackbar to engage destroyers at point blank range, Ackbar acknowledges they won't last long, so there's some establishment that distance matters. Likewise other things have sort of established the same can be said of fighters being father out from heavy guns and closer to them they're more effective and less prone to getting hit by them... So the notion of the slow speed chase (we'll abandon for Crait, hold out for help, etc. since hypering out is pointless) made sense to me... The hypering into a ship creates havoc seems kind of difficult thing to reconcile with past battles and issues though.
The opening battle with the bombers, I see people complaining about the physics and science and such, and I'd agree if they hadn't already established TIE Bombers dropping bombs on asteroids in ESB. "Bombing" is still a thing in space... I hear one of the companion books to the film explains how the Resistance Bomber fleet works, but they're clearly not a "fighter" and much more of a large ship, not maneuverable, and devastating if they get to a target and knock it out. Hell all they need to do is drop stuff with a shove out into space and it should just get to its target on inertia. The complaints there to me are unfounded. I can buy it.
Poe feels like his character has no real direction... except maybe a leadership role without Leia and now the Vice Admiral? I don't know. They're down to like 8 people left in the resistance though, so maybe he's just there by default now, but yeah I feel like his character is not driven by much of a point right now except some comic relief and the Han dashing/daring/super pilot fun thing.
Lacking more 3PO and R2 sucks... I'd like to see them be more included in the new trilogy. If anyone/anything should be more heavily used that are a carryover from the OT, it's these two. It feels like they're really just there in scenes to remind you they're still alive.
That's about all I can think of... It was a lot to take in, digest, think about, and remember so I'm sure I'm not remembering a lot of stuff... I'm going to see it a 2nd time on Saturday with the kids and my gf.
I loved it though. I really had a great time seeing it. Hell my only really angry outcome was that the figures are meh. I want better toys for this trilogy now.
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This is a bad movie. I'm a little surprised at the glowing reviews from everyone here. I love Star Wars and I really WANT to like this movie as much as everyone else, but it's just wrong in so many ways.
#1 - The Plot is terrible. One bomber and one capital ship can pretty much wipe out the entire FO fleet. Why wouldn't the Rebels do this all the time to even the odds? In ANH the Tantiv IV can't outrun a Star Destroyer, but in this one the Imperials can't muster the thrust to catch a single ship? Or send a swarm of ties after it? One of the support ships can't jump ahead and cut it off? And there's enough time for Finn and Rose to get to some other planet and back while the chase scene is happening? Rey goes down into the dark side pit to find...nothing? Canto is a total waste. Finn & Rose accomplished nothing, Leia's almost death was ridiculous, and OTC characters like Chewie, R2, Threepio were ornamental at best.
#2 - Characters are forced in for marketing purposes, nothing else. BB8 holding off a platoon of troopers is just dumb. Clonetroopers were brought in because droids were ineffective, but the Rebels could seemingly retake the galaxy with a few well placed astromechs. Yoda was a nice surprise, but so poorly executed. He looked wrong, sounded wrong (did he even use his backwards talk), and he can cause lightning storms? Why not sneak up behind Snoke and lightning fry him? Phasma was wasted yet again. Lets get Maz in there for a ridiculous scene as well.
#3 - The editing/small plot decisions are like death by a thousand shards. Rose and Finn find the right slicer, then get hauled off as a woman next to the slicer looks on in interest...only to never be seen again. DJ helps them get to the lead ship (not Finn, an ex stromtrooper?), only to quickly betray them and get a pallet of loot that was waiting around for him. The imperials have hyperspace tracking now...because its convenient! A line of dialogue could have easily fixed this, or they could have had a spy in the rebellion allowing them to track movements which would have made a lot more sense. Luke agrees to give Rey THREE lessons. We see one and then...? What were the three suppose to be? Hundreds of troops on hand to watch Rose and Finn be executed, then the ship gets hit and there's like a dozen troops. Luke passes out from force projecting himself, then wakes up, seems okay, sits on the rock...and dies. WTH. Luke is closed off from the force, then what? Even the music score was a missed opportunity throughout. There should have been something more dramatic when Luke showed up at the Rebel base or is looking at the twin suns.
#4 - Too many forced plot twists. The bomber pilot is dead, wait she is alive, but can't reach the trigger. She kicked a ladder to get the trigger, but it fell past her, but no it didn't and wham, she takes out a massive destroyer. You know, with gravity bombs in space. Leia is dead! Wait, she can breathe and fly through space, then get through hatch doors without an airlock or magnetic sheild. Rose and Finn are captured, but they find a slicer anyway, but he can't get in without Rose's necklace, so he gets it, but then he gives it back because he's a nice guy, who just sold them out for a reward. Poe rebels against the rebels because they can't take the time to explain their plan. The rebels are trapped with no way out...other than side doors apparently to get all the ships out and troops into trenches. Oh and there's no way out, but there is a back door no one's ever heard of. There are several comments about the Rebels calling for their allies, only to have no one show up? Kylo is a misunderstood bad guy who is willing to save Rey and kill his master, only to try to kill Rey? The only good one was Luke being a force projection, and they overdid that with the dissolving dice trick.
#5 Way too much heavy handed messaging. It doesn't matter who your parents are, you can be anything if you put your mind to it. We win by saving those we love, not destroying those we hate. All rich people are evil war profiteers. There's no killing off the rebellion because it lives on in the hearts of our children. The rebellion is down to a handful of people with no weapons, but we have everything we need to win!
I liked certain scenes and concepts. New rebel ships and imperial vehicles, Rey in training, The fight scene with Snoke, Luke's force projection...but a jumble of cool scenes is not enough to overcome the flaws in this movie. I like they they wanted to stretch the SW universe, but it was all too much and too poorly done. This one has a lot more in common with the prequels in my opinion and it ranks right down with them as well. It could have been so much more. I give it a C- at best.
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The imperials have hyperspace tracking now...because its convenient! A line of dialogue could have easily fixed this, or they could have had a spy in the rebellion allowing them to track movements which would have made a lot more sense.
While I do agree with you that this movie had real problems... I like that it attempted to flip a lot of things on their heads, and I don't expect them to do whatever I wanted them to do... basically, I think it was good, just not as good as it needed to be to satisfy people. TLJ people loved, but the criticism was that it was basically ANH reborn... and maybe that's why it was successful. I didn't want this movie to just be ESB again, and it definitely wasn't. Which I think was a plus...
That aside, there is one thing they set up that is super subtle to get the hyperspace tracking in there...
(https://i.imgur.com/0VXEToj.png)
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#1 - One bomber and one capital ship can pretty much wipe out the entire FO fleet. Why wouldn't the Rebels do this all the time to even the odds? In ANH the Tantiv IV can't outrun a Star Destroyer, but in this one the Imperials can't muster the thrust to catch a single ship? Or send a swarm of ties after it? One of the support ships can't jump ahead and cut it off?
#3 - The imperials have hyperspace tracking now...because its convenient! A line of dialogue could have easily fixed this, or they could have had a spy in the rebellion allowing them to track movements which would have made a lot more sense.
Even though I've come to terms with my initial frustration with the movie, these are the two parts that still bug me the most.
This kind of upsets all the normal pre-existing Star Wars space battle logic. A single ship shouldn't be able to hyperspace through another ship and destroy it. If this were the case then they should do this all the time with kamikazes or remote controls. Dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb, and dumb.
Hyperspace escapes have also been a standard plot device that now seems to be gone, and to Justin's point, for no good reason. All they needed was a tracking device implanted (as done in the Falcon on a couple different occasions) or a spy, or maybe even use an existing theme where there is a gravity well projector on a capital ship that pulls them out of hyperspace.
And I completely agree. Why couldn't the FO star destroyers hyperspace all around the rebel fleet and cut them off even if their standard thrusters aren't as fast.
It seems these are all goofy plot devices that could have been thought through a bit better.
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This really frustrates me the more I think about it. They could track the ship with a spy, which is an obvious choice given how many attempted plot twists and surprises they threw into this. I thought for sure that the new rebel leader was some kind of spy. Anyway, we see ships come out of hyperspace on a dime. It makes no sense for them to just slowly chase the ship until its out of gas. I can't believe someone didn't red flag that as a concept flaw right away as it's the primary plot point of the film. They could have made the same movie and just had Kylo say, " I want the rebel leaders captured alive and publicly executed to demonstrate what happens when you go against the First Order." Hence, chase scene waiting for the fuel to run out, and it's another way to stall the death of his mom.
As for Jyn seeing "Hyperspace Tracking" in the data files, that's a neat tie-in if nothing else.
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The Death Star could have hyperspaced to be in range within the moon of Yavin instead of orbiting around it. The Empire could have landed the AT-ATs next to the shield generator and blew it up. The Emporer could have blown up the shield generator once the Death Star was active then turn on the rebel ships. The movie wouldn't have a story or be as much fun if these things happened.
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The Death Star could have hyperspaced to be in range within the moon of Yavin instead of orbiting around it. The Empire could have landed the AT-ATs next to the shield generator and blew it up. The Emporer could have blown up the shield generator once the Death Star was active then turn on the rebel ships. The movie wouldn't have a story or be as much fun if these things happened.
I think this is the most important point in this whole conversation. There was dumb stuff or leaps in logic in all of the movies.
A lot of the things we love, we love because of the age that we were when we saw them. My older co-worker hates the ewoks, I love them. I hate Jar Jar, my 14 year old nephew thinks he's great.
The OT was formative for most of us, and we're putting that on this new trilogy, we expect too much. It's not to say we shouldn't expect good writing, but the idea that TLJ was utter, hopeless crap is too much. Younger people seem to love it. They're going to grow up loving it. I'd rather watch an exciting new chapter in Star Wars even if it's not exactly how I'd have wanted it to go than to just say to hell with it and complain about everything.
The movie wasn't perfect, but most movies, especially the 9th one in a property, aren't going to please everyone.
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I'm not saying anything new here, but I'm right with the last two posts. The people who didn't enjoy the movie, that's fine.
But most of those reviews seem to be asking TLJ to live up to some rules of belief not asked of the other movies.
They have new tracking tech. You can push a bomb at something in space. We didn't know everything about the force. Etc, Etc Etc.
Perfect movie? Not close. Terrible garbage? Calm down
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The Death Star could have hyperspaced to be in range within the moon of Yavin instead of orbiting around it. The Empire could have landed the AT-ATs next to the shield generator and blew it up. The Emporer could have blown up the shield generator once the Death Star was active then turn on the rebel ships. The movie wouldn't have a story or be as much fun if these things happened.
Well, I take it from conversations in the movie that you can't hyperspace through a planet or a star. That's why they have astromechs running calculations and can't instantly jump off to hyperspace at a moment's notice. It would then make sense that the death star coming out of hyperspace might still need to circle around to get to the side of the planet where the rebel base is. Walkers and drop ships probably wouldn't come down in range of the rebel base and its guns. I don't know why the emperor would blow the shield generator, but there's a logical rationale for all of these situations and that's all I ask.
A huge fleet of ships chasing a few Rebels and not having any way to catch them isn't remotely logical to me, especially when some of the rebels can zip off to another planet, search for someone, get locked up, escape, and zip back to the rebel ship all while the chase scene is happening. I can suspend belief on a lot of things, but at some point they have to make sense within the framework/rules of the universe we're watching.
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Perfect movie? Not close. Terrible garbage? Calm down
I don't know if I would call the movie garbage. It's certainly not the worst of the 9 made thus far, but Rotten Tomatoes has an audience score of 55%. In contrast, TFA holds a score of 88%. That's a big difference. There were some cool scenes and I even like a lot of the concepts they were going after, but the final product itself is something of a hot mess in my opinion. Here's how I'd rank the 9:
#1 - Empire Strikes Back
#2 - New Hope
#3 - Rogue One
#4 - Force Awakens
#5 - Return of the Jedi
#6 - Revenge of the Sith
#7 - Last Jedi
#8 - Attack of the Clones
#9 - Phantom Menace
Maybe my expectations are too high for a SW film, and maybe I'll like it more in a second viewing, but slotting it behind ROTS should give you some indication of what I thought of it as a whole. I think its fair to also call out that a lot of big SW fans (like most of us on this site) are going to defend the movie to their last breath just because its Star Wars. I recall someone once saying that Hasbro could release a Poop-on-a-stick carded figure and it would still sell...I think there's some of that going on here as well, where people are willing to overlook or ignore the flaws of the movie because they just want to like it. I really want to like it, but I'm not there yet.
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This kind of upsets all the normal pre-existing Star Wars space battle logic. A single ship shouldn't be able to hyperspace through another ship and destroy it. If this were the case then they should do this all the time with kamikazes or remote controls.
This is a good point that illuminates one of the logic gaps with TFA. If the Falcon could get through the shields of SKB at light speed, then the Resistance should have loaded every freighter and transport with all the fuel could and bombarded that thing until they turned it to ash.
Yoda was a nice surprise, but so poorly executed. He looked wrong, sounded wrong (did he even use his backwards talk), and he can cause lightning storms?
He did speak as he traditionally speaks. I don't have an issue with a character who exists beyond death and can appear on any planet anywhere summoning lightning. 'If you strike me down, I shall become more powerful than you can possibly imagine.'
My current ranking of the films:
#1 - ESB
#2 - ANH
#3 - TLJ
#4 - ROTJ
#5 - TFA
#6 - ROTS
#7 - RO
#8 - TPM
#9 - AOTC
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Perfect movie? Not close. Terrible garbage? Calm down
I don't know if I would call the movie garbage. It's certainly not the worst of the 9 made thus far, but Rotten Tomatoes has an audience score of 55%. In contrast, TFA holds a score of 88%. That's a big difference. There were some cool scenes and I even like a lot of the concepts they were going after, but the final product itself is something of a hot mess in my opinion. Here's how I'd rank the 9:
#1 - Empire Strikes Back
#2 - New Hope
#3 - Rogue One
#4 - Force Awakens
#5 - Return of the Jedi
#6 - Revenge of the Sith
#7 - Last Jedi
#8 - Attack of the Clones
#9 - Phantom Menace
Maybe my expectations are too high for a SW film, and maybe I'll like it more in a second viewing, but slotting it behind ROTS should give you some indication of what I thought of it as a whole. I think its fair to also call out that a lot of big SW fans (like most of us on this site) are going to defend the movie to their last breath just because its Star Wars. I recall someone once saying that Hasbro could release a Poop-on-a-stick carded figure and it would still sell...I think there's some of that going on here as well, where people are willing to overlook or ignore the flaws of the movie because they just want to like it. I really want to like it, but I'm not there yet.
The rotten tomatoes score has been shown to be largely due to bots spamming the site with negative reviews.
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The rotten tomatoes score has been shown to be largely due to bots spamming the site with negative reviews.
Ugh, so tired of people downplaying news/sources when the story doesn't fit their opinion. This hasn't been "shown" at all. It's been suspected, likely because of the vast difference between the critics score and the audience score and the fact that the score is obnoxiously low. And the potential source of the bots from what I read is anti Disney, yet we haven't seen low scores for Last Jedi, Rogue One, Thor, etc.
Outside of hard core SW fans, most of the people I know who have seen it were less impressed than the previous two releases, which correlates to what we see with the RT scoring.
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Perfect movie? Not close. Terrible garbage? Calm down
I don't know if I would call the movie garbage. It's certainly not the worst of the 9 made thus far, but Rotten Tomatoes has an audience score of 55%. In contrast, TFA holds a score of 88%. That's a big difference. There were some cool scenes and I even like a lot of the concepts they were going after, but the final product itself is something of a hot mess in my opinion. Here's how I'd rank the 9:
#1 - Empire Strikes Back
#2 - New Hope
#3 - Rogue One
#4 - Force Awakens
#5 - Return of the Jedi
#6 - Revenge of the Sith
#7 - Last Jedi
#8 - Attack of the Clones
#9 - Phantom Menace
Maybe my expectations are too high for a SW film, and maybe I'll like it more in a second viewing, but slotting it behind ROTS should give you some indication of what I thought of it as a whole. I think its fair to also call out that a lot of big SW fans (like most of us on this site) are going to defend the movie to their last breath just because its Star Wars. I recall someone once saying that Hasbro could release a Poop-on-a-stick carded figure and it would still sell...I think there's some of that going on here as well, where people are willing to overlook or ignore the flaws of the movie because they just want to like it. I really want to like it, but I'm not there yet.
The rotten tomatoes score has been shown to be largely due to bots spamming the site with negative reviews.
Was about to post the same.
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I think everyone needs to calm down...the is Star Wars, not Citizen Kane. Frankly, given the choice, I'd rather watch The Last Jedi than Citizen Kane any day!
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Outside of hard core SW fans, most of the people I know who have seen it were less impressed than the previous two releases, which correlates to what we see with the RT scoring.
I don't know anything about Disney hating bots, but most non-hardcore people I've talked to genuinely like the movie. I know I've criticized parts, and on a second viewing have come to terms with it, but I think I would probably rank the movies similar to Jman, although I don't see a huge difference in ranking between ROTJ, ROTS, and TLJ. Its not in the top group for me, but its also not as bad as the bottom group (TPM and AOTC) either.
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Outside of hard core SW fans, most of the people I know who have seen it were less impressed than the previous two releases, which correlates to what we see with the RT scoring.
most non-hardcore people I've talked to genuinely like the movie
In places where anyone can register and vote/score the movie (as many times as they want), the scores aren't great. RT has a score in the fifties, metacritic is about 50%.
But in all the movie industry polls that actually poll people coming out of theaters, like Cinema Score (A rating) and comscore (5/5 stars), the movie is doing very well with audiences. That's a big disconnect.
Birth.Death.Movies (http://birthmoviesdeath.com/2017/12/20/the-curious-case-of-the-last-jedi-and-its-rotten-tomatoes-audience-score) has a nice breakdown of the disconnect by looking at the review data. Curious that 60-70% of the bad TLJ reviews are coming from newly registered users. And then like a third of those new users deleted their account after posting the TLJ bad reviews.
I am not trying to invalidate anyone's opinion of TLJ or say you're bad/dumb/whatever if you didn't like it. I am sure that there is a population of folks who either didn't like the movie or were disappointed with what they got/saw, but it does seem like it's possible a small minority of those who didn't like it are causing problems on some of the internet review sites.
I'm not trying to say that it's all fake and everyone loves the movie, but it wouldn't surprise me if the truth was somewhere in the middle.
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This was definitely the most challenging Star Wars film to date, especially for an audience who has aged with the franchise since it's beginning. And I think everyone needs to take in the film as they've perceived it. For me it resonated. I don't expect that everyone would share my reaction to the film. Let's see how people talk about TLJ in a year, 5 years, or 10 years on. But I think one thing from a business standpoint was very telling: before the film was even released, Rian Johnson was signed on to write and produce his own trilogy of films. Disney and Lucasfilm have confidence in Johnson. And he has made a franchise that was dare I say predictable a bit more compelling and surprising from a story standpoint.
I think that this newest film is coming from a place that is cognizant of where we've been through the franchise. I am part of a generation that saw the OT as a little kid. And Rian Johnson is of that generation, too. I was barely 5 years old when I saw ANH in the theater during its theatrical run. And I saw TESB and ROTJ when they were released, too. And I have always gotten the sense that my generation, those that saw the OT as kids, have elevated those films to lofty territory because they were such high points in our childhood experiences.
George Lucas has offered time and again that the films were intended to be for kids. He may well have been right. And he kept repeating that mantra when he released the PT between 1999 and 2005: these are kids movies. Did he not get a real sense of how the audience had clung to the original movies and continued to be fans from the 70's through the new millennium? I'm not George Lucas, so I will never know. But I did get the feeling that because my generation held the OT in such esteem from their own childhoods, that it might prove difficult for Lucas to top his previous work because of unrealistic expectations on the part of the audience.
Now that we're in the post Lucas era? I think we're in even more complicated territory. JJ Abrams was trying to pave the way for a new generation with THE FORCE AWAKENS. I suspect that he was trying to take the Joseph Campbell route of the Hero with a thousand faces as an echo to the OT, but with new characters. "Real fans" accused him of telling ANH over again, and that it wasn't original. Then we got ROGUE ONE which expanded on part of a story that we knew. Some of it did seem like it was paying service to fans, but it also did something daring: UNAPOLOGETICALLY KILLING OFF THE HEROES. And the sacrifice of those heroes actually wound up resonating with fans as a daring choice that worked. And now with THE LAST JEDI we got a movie that challenged us even more as an audience. Notably, with the failures of characters that we have loved for some 40 years. Personally, I appreciated that. Did everyone else? That's something everyone has to answer for themselves.
A lot of our preconceived notions about characters as well as The Force have been challenged. And the days of playing it safe have certainly gone out the window. I think there's a lot of disappointment from a good number of fans about how things panned out with Luke. But then that was in a lot of the messaging going into this, wasn't it? Your heroes may not be the people you think they are.
Luke was made out to be a hero and tried to rebuild the Jedi Order. And what he didn't learn was that the Order, prior to its fall, was itself very flawed. Yoda recognized that. But it's something that Luke could never have known. Yet he set down on a path towards failure, when he probably should have focused on teaching a single student.
I think the greatest tragedy of the film was the realization of how Luke recognized the growing darkness in Ben Solo. He recognized his own failings as a master. And when he foresaw what Ben might become, he set himself on a path to do the unthinkable: to kill his own nephew. Rian Johnson's use of the Kurosawa/Rashomon technique of showing that same scene from multiple perspectives was incredibly compelling.
People think of Luke as perfect. But was he really? His attempt to stop Ben Solo before he could turn into a monster wasn't the first time that Luke had turned to the dark side. He tapped into it during the events of RETURN OF THE JEDI. He used a dark side power to Force choke the guards at Jabba's palace. And he used the dark side when he fought Vader on the second Death Star after Vader goaded him. And much like Obi-Wan had failed Anakin, Luke failed Ben as a Jedi Master and an uncle. He failed to stop Ben from turning to the dark side himself. And he failed to keep Ben from destroying the Jedi training temple. If all of that isn't reason enough for Luke to walk away, I don't know what is.
At the center of Ben Solo's story I think you need to take a look at his family. I've rewatched TFA recently. And when the topic of Ben comes up there's genuine hope and love from Leia, who feels desperate to have her son back. And with Han? I truly got a sense of his love for his son, and him being prepared to do whatever it takes to get him back. But also a sense of heartbreak, because he recognized his failures as a father.
On the matter of Ben's turn? There have been some rumblings to the effect that some of Ben's fellow students became the Knights of Ren. I'm intrigued to learn a little more about that in Episode IX.
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Outside of hard core SW fans, most of the people I know who have seen it were less impressed than the previous two releases, which correlates to what we see with the RT scoring.
most non-hardcore people I've talked to genuinely like the movie
In places where anyone can register and vote/score the movie (as many times as they want), the scores aren't great. RT has a score in the fifties, metacritic is about 50%.
But in all the movie industry polls that actually poll people coming out of theaters, like Cinema Score (A rating) and comscore (5/5 stars), the movie is doing very well with audiences. That's a big disconnect.
Birth.Death.Movies (http://birthmoviesdeath.com/2017/12/20/the-curious-case-of-the-last-jedi-and-its-rotten-tomatoes-audience-score) has a nice breakdown of the disconnect by looking at the review data. Curious that 60-70% of the bad TLJ reviews are coming from newly registered users. And then like a third of those new users deleted their account after posting the TLJ bad reviews.
I am not trying to invalidate anyone's opinion of TLJ or say you're bad/dumb/whatever if you didn't like it. I am sure that there is a population of folks who either didn't like the movie or were disappointed with what they got/saw, but it does seem like it's possible a small minority of those who didn't like it are causing problems on some of the internet review sites.
I'm not trying to say that it's all fake and everyone loves the movie, but it wouldn't surprise me if the truth was somewhere in the middle.
I read that an ALT-RIGHT group has claimed responsibility for these bots. They cite issues with Disney, Kennedy and Hidalgo pushing a feminist agenda and some other random homophobia. They also reference reviews that their bots posted to other films (Weight of Water) instead of TLJ by accident.
Now, this could be some idiot claiming credit for something that happens as normal, but... I definitely don't take RT at their word saying "we weren't hacked" since all they really have is their reputation.
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(https://i.imgur.com/Ri1iyiT.jpg)
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Anybody know Mark Hamill's interest in continuing as Luke in the ST? I know Harrison Ford wasn't really interested and more or less asked to get killed off. Just curious if Hamill felt the same way or if that was just the way the story went.
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Just saw an interview where he said he had lobbied Rian Johnson to keep Luke around for IX. I assume he wants to come back, and will as a Force ghost.
BTW, LOL on Rob's post. People forget now, but ESB was actually panned a little bit during its theatrical run, for many of the reasons that TLJ is suffering for now (too dark, not enough like SW, etc...)
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Anybody know Mark Hamill's interest in continuing as Luke in the ST? I know Harrison Ford wasn't really interested and more or less asked to get killed off. Just curious if Hamill felt the same way or if that was just the way the story went.
I read somewhere that he was really moved when he boarded the Falcon set for the first time. Apparently the emotion was strong enough that he asked to spend some time in the cockpit without his family or anyone else. He definitely cares a lot about the franchise and his character - much more so than Harrison by the sound of it. I fully expect to see him back in #9 as a Force Ghost.
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This is interesting:
https://io9.gizmodo.com/so-apparently-snoke-may-have-trained-at-least-one-oth-1821509978
Who could Snoke's apprentice have been? I do think for Snoke to have had so much interest in the idea of an heir to Vader, he had to have known him (or of him). Which triggers a bunch of questions about Snoke, his relationship to the Sith and especially Palpatine.
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Anybody know Mark Hamill's interest in continuing as Luke in the ST? I know Harrison Ford wasn't really interested and more or less asked to get killed off. Just curious if Hamill felt the same way or if that was just the way the story went.
I'm hoping that he's going to come back as a Force spirit. Especially in light of how Luke become one with the Force.
I think Mark is a tremendous ambassador for the franchise. I've only met him once, and that was at SDCC back in 2009. He had NOTHING going on with Star Wars at that time aside from doing signings. And he was AWESOME. So incredibly friendly and gracious. He actually asked ME if we could take a picture. I had just been prepared to have him sign an autograph and to have a quick interaction. But he was very conscious of making it a positive experience for me.
And putting it all in context? When I met Mark, he wasn't doing any on camera work at the time. But he was definitely a heavy hitter on the voice over scene. Signing at SDCC was probably a nice payday, but might not measure up to what he was making as the voice over actor for the Joker.
Obviously, bringing Luke back as a Force spirit has to work from a story standpoint. But I think Rey is probably going to need some guidance, and Luke is the only Jedi master that she's ever known.
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I think Luke will be back in astral form, but I think it will be with Kylo more than Rey.
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I think Luke will be back in astral form, but I think it will be with Kylo more than Rey.
Luke Skywalker: Force ghost version of an internet troll. ;D
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But I think Rey is probably going to need some guidance, and Luke is the only Jedi master that she's ever known.
One of the things I wasn't sure about after seeing the film the first time was how limited their actual relationship was, but then I thought about it, and its roughly the same as Luke and Yoda's in ESB. Both end in what we'd consider failure. There's less actual training between them, and what's ironic is Luke is the antagonist in both. He's skeptical of Yoda and Rey.
I hope Luke comes back for more than a scene in IX, and helps Rey through what has to be a very rocky path.
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Just a thought,
Compare the backstory/details we knew about Emperor Palpatine at the end of ROTJ with the backstory/details about Snoke at the end of TLJ. ...
Yep.
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Just a thought,
Compare the backstory/details we knew about Emperor Palpatine at the end of ROTJ with the backstory/details about Snoke at the end of TLJ. ...
Yep.
I keep hearing this. And whereas I'm not melting down we don't know more about Snoke, it's also 2017, not 1983.
Different crazed fan base to leave hanging.
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It's interesting to see the so-called "backlash" stories surfacing now. And the responses have generally been a little polarized.
Newsweek ran with this one yesterday: Is Mark Hamill Happy with ‘The Last Jedi’? Actor Disagrees with Luke Skywalker Interpretation (http://www.newsweek.com/mark-hamill-luke-skywalker-last-jedi-rian-johnson-757329). Frankly? This was an effort on their part to drive clicks to Newsweek.com after the release of the movie. Mark Hamill made it know some time ago that he had different ideas about how Luke's character would evolve. But he got onboard with Rian Johnson's vision for the film.
And then there's this EW piece: Rian Johnson addresses The Last Jedi backlash, says necessary for Star Wars to 'grow' (http://ew.com/movies/2017/12/21/rian-johnson-star-wars-last-jedi-backlash/). This piece seems a bit more on point. The movie was absolutely going to stir conversation. And it wasn't these nonsense arguments about this being a rehash of a previous Star Wars film. I think Johnson summed up what a lot of people might be thinking very well with this tweet:
“The goal is never to divide or make people upset, but I do think the conversations that are happening were going to have to happen at some point if sw is going to grow, move forward, and stay vital.”
As for Snoke? I think he's interesting source material for the EU. Explore it there.
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I think Luke will be back in astral form, but I think it will be with Kylo more than Rey.
With the "Sith Ghost" artwork and story in the Art of TLJ book, I wonder if IX is when we'll finally get the return of Hayden Christensen
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Just a thought,
Compare the backstory/details we knew about Emperor Palpatine at the end of ROTJ with the backstory/details about Snoke at the end of TLJ. ...
Yep.
I keep hearing this. And whereas I'm not melting down we don't know more about Snoke, it's also 2017, not 1983.
Different crazed fan base to leave hanging.
I just realized I didn't use the word amount in my original post.
the amount of backstory on the two characters should be compared. when you do that you'll realize... wow there wasn't really much backstory on either of these two dudes by the time they were killed off.
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Saw this for a second time and I liked this a lot better now. It's pretty coherent and cohesive, I just missed some things the first viewing.
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I'll never forgive the film for Admiral Ackbar dying early and Grape Kool Aid Hair lady getting what could've been his heroic death.
NEVER.
Rian Johnson will find a fish head on his bed.
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Good point on Ackbar and Grape Lady... She felt like kind of a waste to me too, and Ackbar's been at this **** since The Clone Wars. I would've liked to have seen him go out a hero now that you mention that. Hmmm.
Anyway, I saw the film again this past weekend... I noticed some things I hadn't before. It also reinforced my thoughts on some of the things I see people arguing about.
One of the biggest fights I see is Leia's force powers, and everyone thinking she flew... The boys and I talked about that whole thing and one of them thought she was flying too, but I pointed out the notion of simply lifting rocks, and how pulling herself to the ship is more or less the same thing as pushing something just in reverse, so why is that so tough to fathom? It blew their minds to rethink it in a simpler matter... I was made fun of for being a turbo nerd for about 15 minutes at dinner, but they agreed.
Overall all 4 people I took, who are passing fans at best, enjoyed the film... even my gf liked it though and she's pretty critical. She likes Rey a lot, and Leia. The boys like Rey too though and that was nice to see them not hating a female character just because she's a female character. I'm glad to know they are not that abnormal despite me warping them growing up. :)
There was a lot of discussion after this film... We didn't talk a lot after TFA I recall, and we weren't able to see Rogue One together. They really enjoyed this film though. They find the arguments on social media comical (that's where a lot of it appears to be taking place). I explained to them some of the sites with anti-Disney sentiments and they just laughed and used the term "neckbeard" which I'm still having trouble getting, but admittedly I am old.
The boys didn't like Canto Bight much, and we all agreed it was the best point to go pee if you needed to as it was sort of a midway and dull portion. It had a few moments, but it lacked a lot of substance, and could've just as easily been time filled with established characters and perhaps even Rose herself being used as the "hacker" or whatever DJ was. DJ was weird, not bad, just weird, and felt like he wasn't used well... Did he live? Did he get away? Will he come back? I kinda hope so because I like the actor, but at the same time I feel like he's worthless too the way they used him. I dunno what to make there, and neither did they...
The only other gripe we all seemed to have was some of the humor was forced and went from funny to annoying. The boys mentioned Luke brushing his shoulder as kinda out of place too (I liked it).
They started to question Luke saying see you around kid, but I told them about Han, and Luke, and how that fit so absolutely perfectly for what it was, and who it was said to, that it was almost one of those oddly emotional moments to older fans. I saw some supposedly rabid fans who were claiming that was dumb but seemingly forgetting it's been around before... I can't believe guys flipping out about TLJ citing that line as "dumb" and too modern and stuff, totally forget Han said it. Just funny I guess.
If the kids on Canto Bight are something in 9, I accept that sequence a lot more.
I'd have liked to have seen/heard something of Max Von Sydow's character too... His relationship with Luke and stuff, how he had the map piece... People seem to have forgotten all that and now I kinda wish it came up. Not a huge bummer but it's one of those things I'd like to know more.
The hate on Snoke's end is perplexing to me the more I see that bitch getting made... I agree with StBrianOM on that, personally. I mean Snoke's backstory is bound to be fleshed out more at some point. I'm ok with that.
I do think Hux got jerked around a little too much by force users, but I can see the point being made that he's just a dude, and he's at these people's mercy, and I think he's maybe getting the hint that he doesn't have Snoke to protect him from Ren now... His attempt to draw his pistol was pretty cool though and reinforced who his character really is too. He'll still be plotting if he can.
That's about it. I like TLJ a lot. I like it more than TFA and I liked TFA. ANH, ESB, and R1 are my top 3, but then there's a solid faceoff between ROTJ, TFA, and TLJ, with ROTS on their heels... then AOTC and TPM bringing up the rear. Hell even the Clone Wars movie goes up above those two for me.
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I like your ideas about Ackbar getting the death on the Raddus, but then the mutiny would have made no narrative sense.
I don't think I could swallow Poe starting a mutiny against Ackbar.
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I still don't know why they felt like they needed to kill Ackbar instead of him just not being there (e.g. already escaped and went someplace else). His involvement in the ST was minor and his death wasn't really emotionally impactful. I'm not sure if its part of the whole plan to refresh Star Wars and eliminate any OT characters still left.
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Didn't the voice actor for Ackbar die not too long ago? I wonder if that was part of the reason since I don't think he had any dialogue in this one.
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I still don't know why they felt like they needed to kill Ackbar instead of him just not being there (e.g. already escaped and went someplace else). His involvement in the ST was minor and his death wasn't really emotionally impactful. I'm not sure if its part of the whole plan to refresh Star Wars and eliminate any OT characters still left.
Didn't the voice actor that played Ackbar pass away around the time TFA came out? Might have had something to do with it. Also, the rebellion truly starting over with just Leia and a handful of survivors was a major plot point of the movie.
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I still don't know why they felt like they needed to kill Ackbar instead of him just not being there (e.g. already escaped and went someplace else). His involvement in the ST was minor and his death wasn't really emotionally impactful. I'm not sure if its part of the whole plan to refresh Star Wars and eliminate any OT characters still left.
I think losing Ackbar was a strategic decision. And yes, the voice actor for Ackbar did pass away earlier this year. However, I think voice actor Tom Kane stepped in to perform what dialogue there was.
But from a story standpoint, I think the loss of Ackbar factors into Poe ascending to a Resistance leadership post. The attack on the bridge of the Raddus leads to the loss of Ackbar and Leia being incapacitated. They appear to be two of the most senior Resistance leaders that are still with the convoy escaping D'Qar. Other elements may have escaped (Statura?). But they're the ones that Poe has personal history with, and before she's hospitalized Leia demotes Poe and brings Holdo into the fold.
Holdo has her own people. She has concerns about Poe since his actions during the attack on the Fulminatrix helped contribute to the loss of their bomber forces. So Holdo keeps her own counsel and gets the convey headed towards Crait, and eventually sacrifices herself and the Raddus to give the rest of the Resistance time to escape to Crait.
IMHO, almost ALL of how this plays out is building up to Poe becoming a leader within the Resistance, and not just some hot-headed fighter pilot. The loss of Ackbar, Leia being incapacitated and Holdo's sacrifice are about creating a vacuum of leadership and showing an example of how a Resistance/Rebel commander needs to lead their forces.
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Poe's got a lot of troubles, because there's just about no one left to command. No fleet. No base.
The next movie will be like Ocean's 14 because that's the number of Resistance members left.
Their distress calls will be answered...by the Yuuzhan Vong.
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Their distress calls will be answered...by the Yuuzhan Vong.
They made it sound like there's still pockets of Resistance left on other bases (cells?). But the opening crawl makes it sound like Leia's group is all that's left.
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Putting out a call for friends didn’t get a lot of replies but I feel like Luke’s status as a legend and him coming back to save the remainder may bring out some of the people who let it go to voicemail.
I was kinda hoping some Wookiee or Mon Cala army would show up and help or something.
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As one of the apparent 12 people who loves the Yuuzhan Vong, please let that happen. The meltdown of the internet would be worth it.
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I don’t think Disney has the rights to Star Trek yet, or it’d be possible I suppose.
(Sorry Nick, I couldn’t resist a Vong Troll. ;D )
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Saw it for 2nd time finally today. Definitely a good movie. The few parts I don't like still stick out though.
Does anybody know what the street date on the Star Wars packaged poop is?
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Does anybody know what the street date on the Star Wars packaged poop is?
May 25, 2018? ;) I kid.
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We've seen it three times so far and heading again this week, still really liking it. I keep thinking now during the Rey/Kylo vs. Praetorians fight, I sort of wish that when the one guard snaps his staff in two and starts swinging them moving towards Rey, that she would pull out her blaster and shoot him, Indiana Jones style. Great fight though. I still get chills when the Falcon shows up and draws off the TIEs, and the soundtrack brings back the A New Hope cues from the Escape from the Death Star/dog fight with TIEs track, so great.
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I keep thinking now during the Rey/Kylo vs. Praetorians fight, I sort of wish that when the one guard snaps his staff in two and starts swinging them moving towards Rey, that she would pull out her blaster and shoot him, Indiana Jones style.
I would have bounced off the ceiling at this.
The Holdo sacrifice scene is one of the best moments in SW. I think we're picturing Ackbar or Lando or someone else in that spot because we wanted it to mean more, to us and because the story so far hasn't served those characters. I think Wedge also would have been a great choice in this role, but not sure where Denis Lawson is anymore on SW and that wasn't Rian Johnson's interest.
He wanted to tell a story that sidelined Leia in favor of giving Poe an arc about learning leadership skills. The movie wasn't big enough to explore all the possibilities in the arc - is Holdo good? Bad? Neutral? Poe's reckless behavior both with the bombers, participating in the Canto Bight diversion and the mutiny all contribute to getting A LOT of people killed. Sure, he learns something (listen to your leaders) but at what cost? And what weight does he carry, knowing that cost? We don't see it.
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I finally saw it for the second time yesterday with my kids, we all had a blast. That's sort of my bottom line ultimately, I enjoyed the movie a lot, despite its flaws which I'm not too fixated on at this point. Nothing stood out to me as much better, but some of the lamer stuff was less cringeworthy the second time around. Porgs, one liners etc. (Super Leia was still painful though)
Caught a few neat things I hadn't noticed before, one of the guards getting shredded by something Kylo throws him into, Lysa Arryn's cameo, the books on the Falcon, etc.
I still think one of the best things is coming out of this movie having no idea what they might end up doing in the last one. I'm legitimately curious to see.
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I finally saw it for the second time yesterday with my kids, we all had a blast...
Lysa Arryn's cameo...
Did you notice the other Game of Thrones alumni, too?
Captain Canady, aka Shagga of the Storm Crows, and Dagmer Cleftjaw of the Ironborn as the First Order Security Bureau officer.
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I recognized the actor who played Canady but cannot place his face from GoT. Did not catch the second guy...cool!
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I recognized the actor who played Canady but cannot place his face from GoT. Did not catch the second guy...cool!
Yeah. In GoT, the actor who played Canady had both facial hair and this viking style helmet on. And his scenes date back to season 1 and 2, IIRC.
The other actor who played the First Order Security Bureau officer was in that VERY brief scene on the Supremacy where Phasma captures Finn, Rose and DJ. He's the one in the white tunic.
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One scene that has bugged me....
Leia is watching over the shield door...the Resitance crew is behind her and she says "Here they come"
The shuttle crashes and they all start firing at the wreck and out pops Finn and Rose
Why was she waiting?
Why was the door open?
Why did she say "here they come"?
The last one could be seen as Here comes the First Order...shut the door
And obviously Johnson wanted to echo the archive base door closure scene...it just didn't make much logical sense
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One scene that has bugged me....
Leia is watching over the shield door...the Resitance crew is behind her and she says "Here they come"
The shuttle crashes and they all start firing at the wreck and out pops Finn and Rose
Why was she waiting?
Why was the door open?
Why did she say "here they come"?
The last one could be seen as Here comes the First Order...shut the door
And obviously Johnson wanted to echo the archive base door closure scene...it just didn't make much logical sense
I'd actually like to see that part again. I got the echoing back to the TESB scene on Hoth. But I missed the "Here they come" bit.
I've only been able to see the movie once so far. Part of what's been deterring me has been all of the people hating on the movie has gotten me so aggravated that it's making the prospect of seeing the movie again less enjoyable. But I do recall that just as the surviving Resistance transports were approaching Crait I started looking at my watch. To me that was a clear indication that the movie ran a little too long.
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Yeah, story wise the doors were open so Finn, Rose, and BB-8 can get back to the rest of the rebels. Plot wise, it didn't make a lot of sense to be standing watching unless maybe they were watching to see if any other little transports made it to the surface?
Also "here they come" line is a call-back to Leia saying it in ANH (while they are on Falcon escaping the Death Star), right?
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On my first viewing, I thought Leia was waiting for Finn and Rose and was trying to time it just right so they could get in while keeping the First Order out...
...and then I was completely confused when the Resistance started firing on the crashed shuttle. So yeah, it didn't add up for me either.
I guess I could argue for the Resistance trying to conserve resources, including however much power it takes to close the giant doors. They were only going to close it if and when they absolutely needed to.
(In truth I think the movie was rushed through production and could have used another couple of script drafts to work all this stuff out.)
I totally missed the "here they come" callback. Maybe the line reading needed to be "faster and more intense" for me to get it.
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Agreed on editing etc...they really could have cut it down to a 2 hour movie pretty easily...by shortening Canto Bight and cleaning up the end (did they really need a Falcon chase?)
All in all I still really enjoy it and think the naysayers are full of **** but to each their own
In General, I really think we've hit a tipping point on Star Wars/Marvel overload so it will be really interesting to see how Solo turns out, especially with all of the production issues
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I figure they're waiting for stragglers. The FO shows up and they know there won't be anymore. But yeah. It's a little bit of here's a great image/callback. The movie is a little too long. There's a bit I'd cut from Canto Bight.
I wouldn't let any negativity stop you from going back to the movie, Nicklab. I've seen it five times, and I enjoy it more and more. The quibbles I have with it stand out more, but that's every SW film.
I'm hopeful for Solo, but have no expectations.
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Agreed on editing etc...they really could have cut it down to a 2 hour movie pretty easily...by shortening Canto Bight and cleaning up the end (did they really need a Falcon chase?)
A few questions about the Falcon part: Did someone call for Chewie and Rey to find them in some place other than the shield door (Could be Rey's Force senses at work)? And why, once they've dispatched the fighters, didn't they go back and take on the walkers, Kylo's shuttle, or the 'doorbuster' laser? The Falcon's better equipped than Snowspeeders... or were the quad-lasers taken out by Chewie's tunnel detour (and someone said the Falcon loses the dish again)?
I've only been able to see the movie once so far. Part of what's been deterring me has been all of the people hating on the movie has gotten me so aggravated that it's making the prospect of seeing the movie again less enjoyable.
Nick, let the haters hate. It's worth a repeated viewing. I still haven't gotten out to see it for a third time... just too much going on in my life at the moment, but I plan to.
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A few questions about the Falcon part: Did someone call for Chewie and Rey to find them in some place other than the shield door (Could be Rey's Force senses at work)? And why, once they've dispatched the fighters, didn't they go back and take on the walkers, Kylo's shuttle, or the 'doorbuster' laser?
These are great questions. The film glosses over Rey's discovery of the Supremacy - one assumes she learned its location from Kylo - but also the fact that it's in the middle of blowing up the Resistance fleet. I was waiting for a shot of the Falcon to attempt to 'thread' the walkers. I guess they wanted that perfect shot of Luke walking out to meet them all, and didn't want some to go down.
To that point though, the Falcon does lose both the ventral laser turret and the radar dish. Again.
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Agreed on editing etc...they really could have cut it down to a 2 hour movie pretty easily...by shortening Canto Bight and cleaning up the end (did they really need a Falcon chase?)
A few questions about the Falcon part: Did someone call for Chewie and Rey to find them in some place other than the shield door (Could be Rey's Force senses at work)? And why, once they've dispatched the fighters, didn't they go back and take on the walkers, Kylo's shuttle, or the 'doorbuster' laser? The Falcon's better equipped than Snowspeeders... or were the quad-lasers taken out by Chewie's tunnel detour (and someone said the Falcon loses the dish again)?
These are great questions. The film glosses over Rey's discovery of the Supremacy - one assumes she learned its location from Kylo - but also the fact that it's in the middle of blowing up the Resistance fleet. I was waiting for a shot of the Falcon to attempt to 'thread' the walkers. I guess they wanted that perfect shot of Luke walking out to meet them all, and didn't want some to go down.
To that point though, the Falcon does lose both the ventral laser turret and the radar dish. Again.
Chewie and Rey were tracking the beacon. They knew there was an exit because the crystal foxes were running out of it.
I've only been able to see the movie once so far. Part of what's been deterring me has been all of the people hating on the movie has gotten me so aggravated that it's making the prospect of seeing the movie again less enjoyable.
Go see it again Nick and don't worry about anyone else's opinion. I liked it the first time I saw it, but enjoyed it more on the 2nd and 3rd viewing.
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A few questions about the Falcon part: Did someone call for Chewie and Rey to find them in some place other than the shield door (Could be Rey's Force senses at work)? And why, once they've dispatched the fighters, didn't they go back and take on the walkers, Kylo's shuttle, or the 'doorbuster' laser? The Falcon's better equipped than Snowspeeders... or were the quad-lasers taken out by Chewie's tunnel detour (and someone said the Falcon loses the dish again)?
I think Matt touched on this, but there is defintiely a shot of Rey using her tracker in the MF cockpit and following Leia's signal through the underground tunnels at the back of the base. I assume she and Chewie had read the situation and realized the survivors needed a getaway ship more than a battle assist.
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Thanks for the responses, guys! Forgot about the tracker here and missed the radar dish getting it. I assumed Rey's cannon bought it though.
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I forgot about the tracker also. Good catch.
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I've only been able to see the movie once so far. Part of what's been deterring me has been all of the people hating on the movie has gotten me so aggravated that it's making the prospect of seeing the movie again less enjoyable.
Nick, let the haters hate. It's worth a repeated viewing. I still haven't gotten out to see it for a third time... just too much going on in my life at the moment, but I plan to.
I tend to agree with your general sentiment. But the hate has been SO toxic that it's made it that much more difficult for me to enjoy the movie-going experience.
I'm committing to seeing TLJ again next week.
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So I went to see THE LAST JEDI again yesterday. And I liked it that much more on the second viewing! It didn't seem too long and it flowed well.
For the critics who say that the Canto Bight segment didn't contribute to the overall story? I disagree. Notably, because Force spirit Yoda told us why: Failure is our greatest teacher. Sure, Finn and Rose failed to disable the hyperspace tracker. But they learned about who the people of the First Order really are. They learned of the arms dealers that have been playing both sides. They learned more about an underworld that might help the Rebels, but to be wary of them since the underworld will also play both sides for their own gain.
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I'm glad you saw it again and liked it.
I 100% agree the Canto Bight thread thematically supports the whole movie, which is really about failure. The failure of Luke, of Snoke, of Rey to convert Kylo, of Kylo to let go of the past he so desperately wants Rey to, of the Resistance and the FO in their respective aims. That's why the final scene with Broom Kid works so well; the victory is the intangible legend Luke gives the galaxy, which can never be undone with fleets, walkers, space stations or mass murder.
I will say the Canto Bight scenes needed some focus structurally. The sequence goes on too long in places, especially with the Fathiers. I personally would have sent Poe/Finn together. I think there would have been more conflict for Poe to discover the action he likes a little too much is all a product of a moneyed elite that has no allegiance except to profit. I don't know what Rose learns, in her story. She remains dedicated to the Resistance, and to justice, from start to finish. She opens Finn's eyes about things, sure, but there's no tension there. Poe wanting to run back to the Resistance and fight and Finn wanting to run away to Rey works better.
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I think that Rose learns that "heroes" are not all they're cracked up to be. Finn makes that clear to her pretty quickly. She had a whole hero worship thing going for him at first, but he quickly disappointed her. And Rose also learns that the Resistance/Rebels are her family, despite having lost her sister Paige. I think Rose is likely to develop more in Episode 9.
As for the movie-going experience? I was so much more relaxed. There were barely a dozen people in the theater. I was actually the first one to sit down. The lady who entered right after me commented that she thought she was going to have the theater all to herself. But having the whole theater quieter and more relaxed made for a more immersive setting for me. I could really take it all in. And that same lady commented to me after the movie: she said that she liked it much more on the second viewing, too.
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That's cool. The last showing I saw was just a few people. I like that, as much as I do the crowd.
That's true on Rose. Family is a huge theme in the movie, too. But it's more about the idea of a family, which may upset some of the critics. The story is no longer about the Skywalkers. That literally and figuratively ended in this movie, both with Luke's passing and the breaking of the lightsaber, a symbolic representation. What we have at the end though is what Leia says: they have all they need.
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I think that Rose learns that "heroes" are not all they're cracked up to be. Finn makes that clear to her pretty quickly. She had a whole hero worship thing going for him at first, but he quickly disappointed her. And Rose also learns that the Resistance/Rebels are her family, despite having lost her sister Paige. I think Rose is likely to develop more in Episode 9.
Finn wasn't running away because he was a coward like Rose thought....he was leaving the fleet with the beacon because he was trying to protect Rey.
Glad you went to see it again Nick, and also glad you enjoyed it more on the second viewing.
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Nick, glad you caught the movie again. I think it gets better with each viewing since I picked up new things in the story that I missed. Now I can explore the other details in the background...
...which I did last night when a friend and I went. We went to a 10:20PM showing and were the only two in the theater (probably due to the time, I would suspect). I finally caught the Falcon losing the dish (a TIE blasted it off. I wonder if what shape the dish will be in Ep 9?). I also noticed that Rey had the pieces of Luke's lightsaber in her hands when she was talking to Leia on the Falcon, so I wonder if the lightsaber will play a role in her construction of her blade (a rebuild or template). I caught some interesting aliens in Canto Bight and on the Resistance ship that would be nice if they were made into figures (not holding my breath, but would be nice).
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Check out the /Film podcast (http://www.slashfilm.com/filmcast-ep-451-an-evening-with-rian-johnson-director-of-star-wars-the-last-jedi/) with special guest, director Rian Johnson. It's an enlightening interview where Johnson touches on a good deal of the plot points of the film, and his mindset going into the production of THE LAST JEDI.
It's a fairly wide-ranging interview, and goes on for well over and hour and a half. He touched on some of the hot-button issues that fans have raised, including the question of Rey's parents. He addressed it in a very thoughtful way and it's absolutely worth a listen.
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It's official - Bluray, 4K, home digital on 3/27 (http://www.starwars.com/news/star-wars-the-last-jedi-comes-home).
Extras:
- The Director and the Jedi – Go deep behind the scenes with writer-director Rian Johnson on an intimate and personal journey through the production of the movie—and experience what it’s like to helm a global franchise and cultural phenomenon.
- Balance of the Force – Explore the mythology of the Force and why Rian Johnson chose to interpret its role in such a unique way.
- Scene Breakdowns
- Lighting the Spark: Creating the Space Battle – Get a close-up look at the epic space battle, from the sounds that help propel the action, through the practical and visual effects, to the characters who bring it all to life.
- Snoke and Mirrors – Motion capture and Star Wars collide as the filmmakers take us through the detailed process of creating the movie’s malevolent master villain.
- Showdown on Crait – Break down everything that went into creating the stunning world seen in the movie’s final confrontation, including the interplay between real-word locations and visual effects, reimagining the walkers, designing the crystal foxes, and much more.
- Andy Serkis Live! (One Night Only) – Writer-director Rian Johnson presents two exclusive sequences from the movie featuring Andy Serkis’ riveting, raw on-set performance before his digital makeover into Snoke.
- Deleted Scenes (14) – With an introduction and optional commentary by writer-director Rian Johnson.
- Audio Commentary – View the movie with in-depth feature audio commentary by writer-director Rian Johnson.
* Digital bonus offerings may vary by retailer.
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Star Wars Show posted a deleted scene (actually more of an alternative scene) in the duel between Finn and Phasma. I actually prefer this version more than the original. I wonder why it was reshot? Pacing, perhaps?
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I wonder why it was reshot? Pacing, perhaps?
From the recent EW article on the deleted scenes (worth a look if you haven't read it yet) -
Why did he change it? “Pacing. Entirely pacing,” Johnson says.
It just took too long to play out. “I really like the little moment of Phasma being caught and getting called out by John, and that little game of chess that they have,” he says. “But we needed a much more condensed version of that scene, where essentially it’s the same outcome.” (http://ew.com/movies/2018/03/02/first-look-deleted-scenes-star-wars-the-last-jedi/6/)
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Weird, because nothing else about the movie seemed condensed.
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Yeah, I don't see how that would have really stretched things out all that much, and it's a much more compelling angle, IMO. Makes me wonder what else they left out, like a scene where Rey explains how she got back to the Falcon from Snoke's shuttle.
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I just think it's better than Phasma going out by falling into a pit of fire. It expanded her character, made her more cool... though I'd reshoot her taking out her four swayed comrades into a wider shot.
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I like the deleted scene, and the added moment for Phasma, but really the discussion of her lowering the shields doesn't add anything to the scene or the story. We already know it as the audience, and she doesn't suffer any consequences as a result because she kills the troopers, and then appears to die/disappear the same as she does in the film. If the thread had been teased out more, and properly developed - thinking of Kallus right now - then it would have made sense to keep it.
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Weird, because nothing else about the movie seemed condensed.
+1
They should have taken that approach with Canto Bight, etc.
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Anybody checked out the options for upcoming Blu-Ray release to know who has the best deal and what pack-ins are the coolest?
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Anybody checked out the options for upcoming Blu-Ray release to know who has the best deal and what pack-ins are the coolest?
The official site had information about the various retail exclusive versions. Check it out here: http://www.starwars.com/news/star-wars-the-last-jedi-comes-home
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Picked up my copy of TLJ today....the more I watch this movie, the more I like it.
I'm checking out the Special Features now, and the featurette about the space battles is really good! I know there are a lot of people who are still slamming Rian Johnson about the movie, but he definitely did his homework on the lore.
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I watched the deleted scenes. All good choices to excise except the Luke mourning Han. I liked the alternate opening. I don't love the one that's in the film with the high-speed plummet though the fleet.
I may have left some of those character moments near the beginning of the film with Finn in too. These scenes cement that at the outset Finn's motivations are Rey, and he does not see himself as a member of the resistance. By the end of the film, he becomes the Resistance hero that Rose thought he was.
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Good points, although I didn't mind the opening we got in the movie. I would have liked to have the Rey/Luke caretaker village scene in the movie as well....seeing as that was lesson #3 and the impetus for her going to the dark side cave.
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I feel like I need to couch my comment (since this film gets a lot of vitriol) in that I didn't HATE the opening, I just didn't love it. Them being cheeky with it may have been worse though.
That Rey/Luke scene was OK as well. I think a few minutes left of space horse riding wouldn't have killed the film.
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I thought the alt opening was interesting, but preferred the one we got. I was stunned at how much longer and involved the Fathier chase was. That could have been cut even more, and should have been, really. The village scene was nice, some weird SW that had a goofy vibe, but didn't add anything else really that we didn't have. Good cut. It did crystallize though something Johnson said in one of the BTS features, which is Luke's exile on the island is him choosing to not interfere in events as he did on Bespin. I inferred that, but I think a more direct scene, more direct than the village one, would have helped with some of the conversation about why is he there.
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I'm going to pick up the 4K version tomorrow, and this weekend it'll be my first 4K viewing experience... the movie wasn't perfect, but I'm looking forward to it.
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I got the Target version. Haven't gotten to watch any of the bonuses yet, but the intro scene was a lot more impressive in 3D
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We've all been duped!
https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2018/10/the-last-jedi-russian-trolls
Was The Last Jedi Hate Actually Spread by Russian Trolls?
According to a new study, the Star Wars film may have been targeted by Twitter accounts linked to Russian operatives—the same ones who tried to sway the 2016 election.
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Stupid article. While I believe the haters are a very vocal minority that the internet have amplified....I don't think Putin's behind it.
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Stupid article. While I believe the haters are a very vocal minority that the internet have amplified....I don't think Putin's behind it.
Did you read the article? I'm not trying to have politics spill out into here, but the research seems solid. The article says that it has nothing to do with people who didn't like the movie for various reasons, but specifically with the Tweets and reactions that claimed that the movie was some kind of veiled attempt to promote liberalism to spark more argument and disagreement.
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The hacking and trolling operations conducted by the Russians have not just had the aim of influencing elections. A big part of the operation has been to sow division through the society on a range of divisive issues. A Star Wars film is about as big of a pop culture event as you're going to find, and could definitely be a significant target for that type of influence operation.
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The hacking and trolling operations conducted by the Russians have not just had the aim of influencing elections. A big part of the operation has been to sow division through the society on a range of divisive issues. A Star Wars film is about as big of a pop culture event as you're going to find, and could definitely be a significant target for that type of influence operation.
The main reason I think it's entirely plausible is that it fits the broader MO, and it wouldn't even be that much work for them.
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The hacking and trolling operations conducted by the Russians have not just had the aim of influencing elections. A big part of the operation has been to sow division through the society on a range of divisive issues. A Star Wars film is about as big of a pop culture event as you're going to find, and could definitely be a significant target for that type of influence operation.
The main reason I think it's entirely plausible is that it fits the broader MO, and it wouldn't even be that much work for them.
This is correct.
Also, I think "Paul Harrison" is a Russian manbaby-bot.
;D
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Watched TLJ for first time in a long time, the warts have worn off except the stupidness of the whole Canto Bight deal. I know JJ has said many times and I totally agree Kylo and Rey v. the Praetorian Guards is so kick ass...and so is the finally battle on Crait.
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It’s gotten me a lot of hate but I swear Reylo dueling the guards may be the best saber fight scene in the saga to me. That’s blasphemy to some but the pacing the music and the graphic quality of it all are fantastic.
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Don't let the internet know you like this film....it seems the only valid opinion on youtube is to hate all over it. ;)
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Don't let the internet know you like this film....it seems the only valid opinion on youtube is to hate all over it. ;)
Seriously. I don't get the hate honestly. I like TLJ, and Jesse, you aren't alone on that lightsaber duel. I really want some Vintage Collection Reylos to set up that scene.
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Frankly, I’m sick of the Fandom Menace. They could not wait for something new in Star Wars to come out just to hate on it. These are the same people that claimed the prequels ruined their childhood and that George Lucas is the worst Sith Lord of the bunch. Ultimately, it was their non-stop badgering that pushed Lucas to sell to Disney.
Now they’re hating all over the ST. The big reason now is because those hate clicks on their videos translates into $$.