JediDefender.com Forums
Collecting => Customs => Customizing Tips and Tricks => Topic started by: Phrubruh on February 27, 2006, 11:09 AM
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Probably like alot of you, I was unable to find the walmart exclusive separations of the twins . I know the walmarts around me have active scalpers that have back door deals with stock boys. Most of the time stuff doesn't even make it to the floor.
Anyway, I'm wondering if someone has opened the twins and is willing to allow me to cast them.
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I'll offer mine up for you... just pm me your address. ;)
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pm sent.
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intrested in getting any of your casts? yes i am. sorry if i asked the question for you. but i didn't get my hands on the twins either.
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Master_Phruby I PM'd you.
Being stuck in Iraq with the US army I missed the twin exclusives and would love a cast...
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Cool. I think I'll turn this thread into a work in progress thread with an eye on casting techniques. I'm very new at casting parts. I've only done a few heads and guns. Most of my heads looked like Dr. Evazan. So with a little guidance from you guys, we can end up with some lumps of plastic that kind of look like twin babies and learn how to cast in the process.
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I'll post some of my newbie casting photos from this weekend too!
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Are you demolding them too early Paul? Make sure cure times are long enough that the figure's hardened completely... I've got a couple Evazan wannabe's from my early work too. I keep them around just for test-painting. :)
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I probably am demolding too soon. I got to learn patience.
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I'm glad you are getting into casting Phruby. You'll see that it will advance your cutomizing greatly.
I'm always available for Questions if you wanna PM me.
I actually offended you havent asked me any questions yet.
Not that i'm an expert, but i'm willing to pass on any info i've learned through my experiences, or what was taught to me.
Have you checked this out yet? (http://www.ironcowprod.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=319)
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Thats a great tutorial Greg. I'm going to follow it and ask lots as questions when the twins arrive from jedijaybird. I know the local Michaels really doesn't have those brands of silcone rubber compound. In fact, they don't have much of anything. I did buy some silcone rubber and some casting material and activator. I'll have to check what stuff I have. Where do you buy your materials?
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Silicones come from Smoothon dot com, and Plastics from polytek dot com.
To start, you could try the same method i did with the witchblade parts, but use laytex. So you can get that from the art store.
Coat half the baby(plastic luke or leia, not rose ;) ) with laytex rubber. Then fill the mold box half way with laytex and then place the baby in it.
This way the laytex will get into all the crevases and then when you place it into the mold box in the other rubber, you wont need to worry about air bubbles.
THis is how i do my coins.
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I've gotten some silicone from Smooth On (at Glassman's recommendation) and it works great. They were superfast shipping too.
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Ok. The stuff I got from Michaels is Castin' Craft Mold Builder - Liquid Latex rubber. I guess you are suppost to put on layer after layer of this stuff. The casting resin I have is Castin'Craft Clear liquid plastic casting resin. I also have the catalyst for this stuff. Should I go with this stuff or something else?
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I've used both products. The latex is okay for making molds but I find the process very very tedious. There is a good tutorial over at FFURG for latex (I'm pretty sure thats where I saw it).
I absolutely hated the Castin resin. The problem is the amount of catalyst you need to add depends on the thickness of the piece you are casting. I never could get the ratios right. I'm much much happier with the resin I'm using which is a strict A+B equal volume kind. I got CR-300 (from Micromark I believe).
Plus the Castin resin has an awful ammonia smell. Blah.
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It's generally not a high quality product as far as resins go, so there's good reason to dislike it. ;)
It's good to get your feet wet though, it's where a lot of folks get into this part of the hobby, but for me I was intro'd to smooth-on, and I've diversified from there so I learned about other aspects of casting, other products, etc... Then I've just learned on my own through trial and error, read up on things when I can, gotten to know professionals and their uses and methods...
I don't know that you'll find the set useful or not Paul. I know many have found that kit to be a cheap way to start though, and get a feel for what you're doing.
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well said JJ, its a good place to start. I started with it. I didnt like it, but it served its purposes as a stepping stone to bigger and better materials.
It will get you familiar with the process of making molds and casting parts..which is valuble experience.
As i stated, even thought its inteded for layer by layer, you can fill a mold box with it and let it dry for a couple days. It will work. My first coins were done that way, before i experimented with RTV.
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Yah, I don't think I want to wait days for this stuff to harden. I think I'll follow as closely as possible your tutorial over at ironcow.
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Have you checked this out yet?[/url]
Glassman,
I use the same materials you do, but I've always used a block mold for heads -- how are you getting the thin layer on your head molds? Are you brushing it on?
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I don't want to speak for Glassman, but I can tell you that he's told me that he pours it on with a spoon. I can tell you from personal experience (just doing it the last two weeks) that you can pour this on and gently remove any bubbles at the surface. Its much easier than painting on latex (which I've also tried).
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yeah tyk, i use a spoon. THe same spoon you see in the first pic, after i stir, i use it to add the silicone to the head.
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I bought a trail size of Smooth-sil 920 and Smooth-cast 60D from Smooth-On. I should be set to make one part molds for the twins.
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Thanks Glassman,
And Glass's tutorial is pretty perfect with pictures too, so that's a great link to have handy to keep you going... Definitely helpful to casting if you've never done it. Very visually explainable which can really help.
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I got my silcone and plastic today in the mail. Very quick turn around from smooth-on. They told me about a distributor of theirs in North Hollywood so next time I can get it next day. Three days isn't bad though. Now I just got to wait for the twins to show up from jedijaybird. I should be casting this saturday. ;D
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practice with it tonight!!!
It will probably take a few trys to get used to it.
Work time, cure time durability....
Good Luck!
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practice with it tonight!!!
It will probably take a few trys to get used to it.
Work time, cure time durability....
Good Luck!
I'll echo this completely. I've scraped more molds that I've salvaged and I'd practiced a little with Latex before getting my hands on the silicon. I still need lots more work!
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Has anyone heard from jedijaybird recently? I'm still waiting for the twins to come from him.
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Well, it seems jedijaybird is ignoring my PMs and emails about sending the twins to me for casting. I know he is here since he posts everywhere on this board daily. I just don't understand why he won't respond to me. Anyway, its been two weeks since he said he would send them out for casting.
So does anyone have a set of the twins that I can cast for everybody? I know there is lot of interest in getting these things casted but I just don't understand why jedijaybird won't respond.
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I can let you use my extra twin I have in my fodder pile. They are both the same, so one should do I think. Just let me have it back when your done. :)
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Thanks RollaJedi for the offer. The twin is taken care of. I need to post some updates to this thread soon.
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ok, no problem!
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Here is an updated picture of my casting attempts. The silcone is poured over the two test subjects. Now I'm in the middle of waiting for it to harden.
It kind of looks like somebody blew their nose and I wanted to keep it.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v308/phruby/moldingwip1.jpg)
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Hey Phruby, What kind of "sprue" holes will there be with these molds. When I've made molds with silicon it looks like snot too - we must be doing something right!
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I guess I'm on the right track. Before I put the silcone on the figures, I covered them with petrolien jelly to make it easy to get them out. Here are pictures of the holes.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v308/phruby/moldwip2.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v308/phruby/moldwip3.jpg)
I forced the piece thru the spew holes and got a pretty good impression from both pieces. I'll try casting them on monday. I'll probably have a ton of bubbles. We'll see.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v308/phruby/moldwip4.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v308/phruby/moldwip5.jpg)
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I guess I'm on the right track. Before I put the silcone on the figures, I covered them with petrolien jelly to make it easy to get them out. Here are pictures of the holes.
From the molds I've made, I haven't "pretreated" any of this plastic. It just slips right out of the silicon (much better than latex!!)
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Man, those look like nasty, vomited up eggs! ;D
Really, this is interesting to see how you go about making these. Not something I'd be comfortable with trying at all.
:)
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Got to remember I have no clue what I'm doing. Just following instructions and tecniques.
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Well, its looking pretty good so far. Disgusting, but good. ;) I missed out on the twins myself, I wouldnt mind getting a set later on if youre able.
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Yeah Phruby, you look like you are right on track.
From the first photo it looks like you just had the pieces laying
on cardboard. But you did use a sprew. Good work.
Remember, the vasaline, if apllied to heavy will mess up the mold.
You will be molding little vasiline deposites and not the just the figure details.
I'll tune intomorrow to check out the progress.
Have you tried a 2 part mold yet?
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Not yet. I used a q-tip to put the vasiline on. Do I need to cote the inside of the mold with something before pouring in the casting material? I think the hardest part so far was to keep the silcone on the piece while I was waiting for it to harden. I had to keep scooping it back on.
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I've not generally had to coat things as you did Paul, though when I have, I've used THINNED vaseline... I thin it with straight gasoline out of a can. The only times I've had to use it is to keep two halves of a mold (for 2-part mold making) separate...
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Your joking right? Gasoline? Your scaring me Jesse.
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Nope, not at all.
Gasoline thins out vaseline (sp?) well... It makes a much more "manageable" material for working with latex's... I've had no adverse effects to casts either, or plastic pieces I've been making molds of, so it's a cheap option...
now, bare in mind I've NOT used that as a de-molding product either... I've used it as a barrier when wanting to make two separate halves of a mold. It keeps the RTV Silicone from bonding, acting as a very thin, but not runny, barrier for the Silicone... It's something I figured out while I was practicing making 2-part molds a while back... Works fine. I've never coated the inside of a mold with the materials and cast a head then de-molded it with that concoction, but I don't think it would harm it... As with everything casting though I've found that a lot of trial and error is in order when you're starting out.
I've had little use for de-molding agents, though there will come a point where your mold is prone to sticking to casts... Usually after a number of molds. The de-molding agents that are out there then usually help keep that from happening (it's usually a sharp detail on what you're casting that'll actually stick to the mold and tear it while you're trying to de-mold the cast). Some people de-mold using talc powder to help molds release (also fills possible air bubbles well in your mold so there aren't marks on the cast), others use release agents you can get from casting suppliers, and I have read the thinned vaseline (with gasoline) can work if done right... It's an option at least.
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In my limited experience, you only need demolding agents for 2 piece molds? Would the experts concur? Like I've said before, with the silicon one piece molds, I haven't had any problems (other than tearing of thin sections) with removing the original or cast pieces.
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Well, the RTV Silicone mold will break down, and eventually, after so many uses (depends on the quality, etc.) it'll start sticking to casts and tearing... My first mold I made was a POnda Baba head (few undercuts, nice and rounded, etc.). I probably pulled 50 casts from that mold in practice and after a while, a blue piece was here and there stuck to the casts... It was part of the inside of the mold.
The release agents are just something that helps the mold last longer... If you're pulling hundreds of casts, which you may be, it's useful to an extent...
The only thing I've used the vaseline/gasoline mix for is to keep halves of a 2-part mold from sticking together while making the mold... This is just a brief rundown of what I mean for those unsure...
-I make my mold box and fill the bottom with sculpey III, and with the head (or whatever) inside the clay HALF way.
-I fill the mold box, covering the OTHER half of the head that's exposed out of the clay, with Silicone... It cures.
-I remove the clay and turn the cured silicone half of the mold over into the mold box so it's now on the bottom... The exposed half of the head is facing up now instead of down before.
-I then put the THINNED gasoline/vaseline mixture over the top of the silicone (not the head, though it doesn't matter if it gets on there so long as it isn't thick and distorting the details of what I'm trying to cast).
-I pour more silicone in the mold box filling it up again.... It cures.
-I demold, and the gas/vas mix keeps the two halves from sticking. They separate perfectly... The head doesn't have to be "worked" out of the mold, so there's no risk of stretching the mold or losing detail there... It's pretty perfect, just more work, and generally used for parts with sharp undercuts and complex designs.
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I finally got the twins casted last night! It turned out better than I though. No major bubbles and the face came out perfect. Unfortunately, my wife took the camera with her to her grandma's house for the week so I can't take a picture. I'll get some pictures up next week when she returns.
The hardest part of this experiment is not making too much silcone rubber or plastic for the project. I've wasted way too much for the small results I've gotten. Does anyone have a good way to pour and mix just a small amount of casting plastic without leaving two thirds of it unused?
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Looking forward to seeing the results.
As far as mixing & pouring - I use little medicine cups. You can usually pick them up by the gross pretty cheap. I use two or three of them to measure out the two parts and mix together. They are pliable enough that its pretty easy to pour them out. I still waste a little but not too much! I waste more if I get over-ambitious trying to fill more than one mold with resin during the pot life.
Hope that helps!
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Thats just something you pick up over time Phruby, For something that small, I usully just
pour each part into a plastic spoon, and mix that in a cup.
Generally (since i've been making so many helmet molds) 1-spoon(each) per helmet. That's enough to get a good flange and a few good coats.
So use that as a gage. For a whole body (torso, 2 legs and 2 arms) I would use 3 full spoons each part.
Once you get used to it, you get a gage for how much to use. Aslo, i always keep a standby piece that i want to make a mold of.
Just in case i mix too much. I use it on that other piece.
As for the plastic, thats worse. I used to use medicine droppers and wasted very little. Now i just eyeball it and ususally waste about 1 or 2 helmts worth. Again, i always keep an extra mold ready to cast the extra plastic so i dont waste too much.
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I do similar things to Glassman... It is a learned art really.
I will say, you should get in the habit of making disposeable mixing cups yourself that have very small measured lines. What you do is find clear plastic cups, measure one with a series of accurate measured lines. Your choice then is to measure cups with the FIRST cup you lined (your "master" if you will) inside the others and then use the ones you just measured and toss them... Or...
put the cup you want to use inside the cup you measured off. Pour your materials in the cup, using the lines on the cup on the outside (if this makes sense... it's better if you can picture it). This is a little technique I use, and all I waste are plastic cups.
I like to pour a lot of casts at once if I can... Like Glassman said, keeping molds handy that you can use a lot of isn't a bad idea. If you have like, say, the POTJ Imp. Officer head cast, keep it handy... It's generic, it fits a couple torso's, it can have the neckpeg shaped to fit a couple others... Good one to have extra casts of is what I'm getting at.
Or, if you want accessories, do a mold for a random small box or something... keep it handy, and if you have resin leavin's around, pour it into that mold. Voila, extra box for your displays. Can never have too many of those... Or I suppose you could but at least it's something. :) Plain boxes usually don't give you de-airing problems either, so you don't have to tend that mold while whatever you are wanting casted in the first place may require your attention more focused.
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Or, if you want accessories, do a mold for a random small box or something... keep it handy, and if you have resin leavin's around, pour it into that mold. Voila, extra box for your displays. Can never have too many of those... Or I suppose you could but at least it's something. :) Plain boxes usually don't give you de-airing problems either, so you don't have to tend that mold while whatever you are wanting casted in the first place may require your attention more focused.
That is a very good idea!
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I've ordered the needed materials today, and I've been reading this topic very carefullly these past few weeks. I'm finally going to try casting myself and I'm very gratefull for this thread. Thanx guys!
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Thats a great idea with the measureed cup JJ, i just eyeball it, but i'm gonna make a couple measure ones tonight.
The beauty of your idea is you can label it how you want. "first line" - 2 or 3 heads, "second line" arms and legs, "third line" - torso...etc.
That way it would cut out the guess work and alot of wasted resin.
Great idea.
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N/P.
I measure it in like liquid measurement, then I have a scale of liquid needed to do general sizes/shapes so I cut down as much as possible, however I'm off at times. I usually make a little extra for that, but it's noticeably less than I have done in the past.
I actually started doing that when I used other resins that measured unequal... The technique stuck with me then was all.
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Here is a picture of the casted twins. (from left to right) The yellow one is a cast made by glassman. The middle one is my first attempt. The last one is my second attempt. It's funny how well my first attempt came out when I had no idea what I was doing. The second one suffers from an improper mix of A and B parts. It's still kind of sticky. Anyway, I need to make three more. PM me if you want a cast. $3 shipped should do it.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v308/phruby/twins.jpg)
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The middle one looks great Phruby. Like a perfect clone. The last one looks like he made a "boom boom" and it ate through his blanky!
You should get some pigments and play with adding them
to the mix. Test some from Home Depot. They are in the pain section, or visit the thread Kit fisto made casue i think tyk, posted a suggetion of store bought pigments. You can also order them online.
When you get into casting more, you will see that it helps you find the details when painting.
Secondly once you master adding pigment, you can cast pieces in the color plastic you want and just paint accent colors.
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Can I use a regular primer on this plastic?
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yep.
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You can use just about anything on resins Paul... They take oil-based paints well (or so far with every brand and type I've used, haha... There's always that one time it ain't gonna work though, or so I tell myself in the back of my mind).
Anyway, it's more versatile in that regard...
I gotta get off my pooper and do more casting but it's been on my backburner for a while now. I've got mold rubber here I can only hope is still useable. Ugh.