JediDefender.com Forums
Multimedia => The Original Trilogy => Topic started by: DSJ™ on September 20, 2004, 01:31 PM
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Why Lucas tinkered with 'Star Wars'
Boxed set of first three movies out Tuesday (http://edition.cnn.com/2004/SHOWBIZ/Movies/09/20/film.qa.george.lucas.ap/index.html)
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Q: Why not release both the originals and special editions on DVD?
LUCAS: The special edition, that's the one I wanted out there. The other movie, it's on VHS, if anybody wants it. ...
I'm not going to spend the, we're talking millions of dollars here, the money and the time to refurbish that, because to me, it doesn't really exist anymore. It's like this is the movie I wanted it to be, and I'm sorry you saw half a completed film and fell in love with it. But I want it to be the way I want it to be.
I'm the one who has to take responsibility for it. I'm the one who has to have everybody throw rocks at me all the time, so at least if they're going to throw rocks at me, they're going to throw rocks at me for something I love rather than something I think is not very good, or at least something I think is not finished.
What a dick...
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Eh, I'm resigned to the fact that this is what he wants...and I think I was talking with Brad about this at one point. The reason we will never see them rereleased is the amount of money needed to restore them. Its way too much and he won't shell it out (well maybe when people start sending him death threats)
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As if millions of dollars is something Lucas can't part with though. Hell he could have made that up with just a portion of the DVD sales. I don't know what his problem is putting out the original version along with this set like Spielberg did with E.T.
I don't even get upset about it. It's just so dumb that it makes me laugh at him. Lucas is an odd man if you ask me. A very rich and successful odd man, but odd nonetheless. Kind of snotty in areas he need not be.
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So, what's he gonna do with the millions ROTS makes? What about the millions TPM and AOTC made? And it's not like he wouldn't recoup his investment. Hell, I'd buy another boxed set if it had the unspoiled trilogy in it.
And VHS doesn't last forever, Lucas.
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From the interview on Apple.com mentioned on the front page....
Tweaks and Shrieks
As with many restorations made with the cooperation of living directors, the “Star Wars Trilogy” introduced content changes, mandated by Lucas, to conform narrative and look and feel in the original trilogy with characters and visuals introduced in the later films. Some were controversial with fans.
Jim Ward deflates the issue by scaling the controversy: “At the end of the day an artist has a right to do what he wants to do to his work. For many years, George has worked to achieve the original vision he couldn’t achieve in 1977 or in 1997 (Special Edition).
So it makes maybe a good headline, but it’s hardly a controversy. We sold over $100 million in one day of this DVD around the world, so I don’t think anybody’s too upset about it. And any changes that George made, they might be controversial to about 5 people.”
As one of those "5 people", might I say to Jim Ward and George Lucas.... **** YOU!
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Can anyone say "Out of touch"?
Seriously, I don't mind the changes overall... I'm happy with lots from the original SE, and the DVD's didn't bug me or I felt actually were improvements.
That said, to not admit reality (that people... LOTS of people. Hate your "revisions") is assinine at best, completely, utterly, 100% incredibly naieve and stupid to say at worst....
I'd say he hit the "worst" mark moreso.
Lucas even acknowledges dislike of the changes. I mean, for god's sake wake up dude. Accept that what you're doing ISN'T appreciated like you think it is. Sales in "Star Wars" mean nothing. People buy this crap because they like Star Wars...
E1 had HUGE sales and is considered by most to be a terrible film. Wake up to reality bub... Just because it has Star Wars stamped on it doesn't make it "great". That goes for the DVD's and everything else. Lucas is more accepting of that mind-set than this schmuck is even... That is incredible.
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As one of those "5 people", might I say to Jim Ward and George Lucas.... **** YOU!
Well, we're two of five. Whoulda thunk we'd actually be in the same place. Two out of six plus billion people on the same board, what a coincidence.
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Ah, another thread that needs to be revisited. I don't mind some of the changes to the DVD after seeing ROTS, but I still had Fett's voice change (and complete lack of enthusiaism by Morrison in the voice dialogue), the new Jabba music sequence, and, of course, Greedo!
Surprisingly enough, seeing Hayden in the end of Jedi didn't bother me as much as I expected. You get more of an emotional sense of closure, having seen Hayden turn to the Dark Side. He still has kind of a creepy grin on his face, but the idea works. As with most of Lucas's films, the audience has to do most of the work, but ultimately, we have a hell of a lot of fun doing it!
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I don't mind 85% of the changes on the SEs and the DVDs, but I really wish the originals were available simply for historical, archival reasons.
Oh well ... I bet after he's dead his kids will release them on Blu-ray or hologram or direct neural download or whatever.
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I don't mind 85% of the changes on the SEs and the DVDs, but I really wish the originals were available simply for historical, archival reasons.
Absolutely! This is the never ending debate, but for pure history and nostalgia, I want the originals as well!!
Wouldn't it be cool if Lucas had a website where you pick which portions of the movies you like (SE verses Classics), and this would be edited into your own personal "definitie edition"?
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I think what gets people is the attitude Lucas seems to have with the originals. He acts like those are utter crap and his new SE's are gold. Yes, I agree that 85% of the changes are nice. It's some of this other stuff already mentioned a billion times that are not.
I just don't understand why he does not make them available on DVD as a bonus? Here is a guy that is supposed to be against piracy but yet he basically leaves you know option but to get a bootleg DVD copy of the OT.
He is such a contradiction with things. For the longest time he would not put the OT on DVD but yet gets snotty if his films are not shown in the best theatrical presentation possible. But it's ok for everyone to view his precious flicks on VHS tapes. Weird.
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It's about his vision.
For him, he still has not fullfilled his vision.
You can bet that the next re-release of the OT in a 6-DVD set will contain further changes and improvements.
I think people will see the total lack of the Emperor in ANH as strange, given he's very prominent in Ep 1 to 3. I suspect that there will be some kind of Vader-Emperor scene in ANH edited in, also to explain why Bad-ass Vader suddenly plays second fiddle to Tarkin.
Admit, in ANH, Tarkin is the main Bad Guy, and Vader is his evil ruthless henchman.
That does not gell with Ep 1 to 3, and 5 + 6.
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I think people will see the total lack of the Emperor in ANH as strange, given he's very prominent in Ep 1 to 3. I suspect that there will be some kind of Vader-Emperor scene in ANH edited in, also to explain why Bad-ass Vader suddenly plays second fiddle to Tarkin.
I hope there are no more changes. There don't need to be anymore, unless he makes Han shoot first. ;)
I don't think it's strange that the Emperor isn't in ANH; I think it adds depth. Even though he does not appear, his presence is still felt. Vader is still there, the Empire is strong, and Tarkin is running the show, This isn't a weakness at all. It would be weaker if the audience had to be reminded about the character. This lets the audeince use their imagination, and piece together information that isn't present. Yoda is not in ANH either, because it would not make sense from a narrative perspective to just insert him. In the first LOTR's film, we don't see any Ents, yet that does not lessen their impact once they appear in the second film.
... also to explain why Bad-ass Vader suddenly plays second fiddle to Tarkin.
Admit, in ANH, Tarkin is the main Bad Guy, and Vader is his evil ruthless henchman.
That does not gell with Ep 1 to 3, and 5 + 6.
I think it gels very well, hence the tragedy of Vader is more palpable; in spite of all his power, and attempt to gain more, he is still under the Emperor's thumb (just as he thought he was with the Jedi council), and under Tarkin's "leash" (to quote a certain Princess).
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I hope there are no more changes.
Amen.
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Well, I'd actually really like to see the lightsaber effects that went out of whack with the new color-timing job fixed. That includes the green tint of Luke's saber during the blast shield scene and the varying color of Vader's saber during the final battle on the DS2.
But I guess those fall under quality control issues more than artistic choices.
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Well, I'd actually really like to see the lightsaber effects that went out of whack with the new color-timing job fixed. That includes the green tint of Luke's saber during the blast shield scene and the varying color of Vader's saber during the final battle on the DS2.
But I guess those fall under quality control issues more than artistic choices.
Certainly. I think the Greedo thing would apply for quality control as well. ;)
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Earning my living as a television editor and an independent record producer, let me side with Lucas on this. When you put together a tv show, a CD or a movie, there are going to be compromises with the finished product. There are going to be points that you as a creator are going to find objectionable, but you're facing a deadline, budget constraints, uncooperative/unavailable talent or inferior technology, and they're keeping you from getting things the way you envisioned them. It's because of these outside forces having their way with a project that Lucas has said in the past that "movies aren't finished, they're abandoned".
What adds insult to injury for the creator is that every time you see the finished work, you see or hear every imperfection. With every record I've ever produced, as much as I notice the good aspects, I know where every fault lies. You know where each imperfection is and it makes you wince. I bet to this day, even with the DVD version of A New Hope, Lucas winces every time he watches the TIE Fighter's flying around the Millenium Falcon and sees the matte lines around the solar panels. I noticed them years ago and they're frankly kind of distracting. I imagine that particular item may be fixed by the time a 6 DVD box set comes out with the entire Saga, but I would bet good money that Lucas is still unhappy with those shots.
On the issue of things that he's gone back and fixed, is anyone really bothered by the fact that he moved the rank insignia on Admiral Piett's uniform to it's correct position at the end of TESB? Don't think so. Do people like the way that the cgi Jabba looks in the DVD version of ANH? Hell yeah! It's looks much better than the inflated orange garbage bag that looked like Jabba in the '96 special edition. How about the windows in the Cloud City corridors that we saw in the special edition as opposed to the plain white walls that were in the 1980 theatrical version of TESB?
I think Lucas is actually looking at things from a somewhat unique POV in the movie industry. He's actually willing to go back and fix things and not leave some screwups out there for all eternity. I think it's almost like a software company sending out updates for a program. They recognize the imperfections and fix them. So does Lucas. He has the will and the means to fix his mistakes. I can't fault him for going back and making the best movie that he can, even after the theatrical release.
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I think people will see the total lack of the Emperor in ANH as strange, given he's very prominent in Ep 1 to 3. I suspect that there will be some kind of Vader-Emperor scene in ANH edited in, also to explain why Bad-ass Vader suddenly plays second fiddle to Tarkin.
I hope there are no more changes. There don't need to be anymore, unless he makes Han shoot first. ;)
I don't think it's strange that the Emperor isn't in ANH; I think it adds depth. Even though he does not appear, his presence is still felt. Vader is still there, the Empire is strong, and Tarkin is running the show, This isn't a weakness at all. It would be weaker if the audience had to be reminded about the character. This lets the audeince use their imagination, and piece together information that isn't present. Yoda is not in ANH either, because it would not make sense from a narrative perspective to just insert him. In the first LOTR's film, we don't see any Ents, yet that does not lessen their impact once they appear in the second film.
No offense, but that last bit is a really dumb statement. You try to make the appearance of some character be the same as the lack of a character in one movie after 3 he was in.
You didn't have 3 movies with ents, then one without, and hey, number 5, they're back again.
... also to explain why Bad-ass Vader suddenly plays second fiddle to Tarkin.
Admit, in ANH, Tarkin is the main Bad Guy, and Vader is his evil ruthless henchman.
That does not gell with Ep 1 to 3, and 5 + 6.
I think it gels very well, hence the tragedy of Vader is more palpable; in spite of all his power, and attempt to gain more, he is still under the Emperor's thumb (just as he thought he was with the Jedi council), and under Tarkin's "leash" (to quote a certain Princess).
Myeah, your POV. In my view, Vader runs the show in TESB and ROTJ, while in ANH, he really is just some dumb dog for Tarkin.
In TESB, he can unleash all his power, like he did in ROTS. So why oh why, would this tragic hero, this troubled mind, submit himself to being bossed around.
He is the right hand of the Emperor, he helped create the Empire, he secured the Empire by wiping out the Jedi, why would he be content with being told what to do by Tarkin in the way he does in ANH?
"Vader, release him" "As you wish."
Myeah, really connects with that rage Anakin has in ROTS, and what he also shows in the duel in TESB, just before he severs Luke's hand.
But again, your POV.
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I think people will see the total lack of the Emperor in ANH as strange, given he's very prominent in Ep 1 to 3. I suspect that there will be some kind of Vader-Emperor scene in ANH edited in, also to explain why Bad-ass Vader suddenly plays second fiddle to Tarkin.
Admit, in ANH, Tarkin is the main Bad Guy, and Vader is his evil ruthless henchman.
I think the in-universe explanation is that Tarkin was locally in charge of the Death Star project, while Vader was a hands-off overseer representing the Emperor.
Initially I didn't like the idea of shoehorning Palpy into ANH, seemingly gratuitously. But now that I think about it maybe it wouldn't hurt to have a VERY BRIEF holographic communication where he reminds Vader the Death Star is Tarkin's baby and let him do his thing, while probably assuring Vader they'll take direct control later on.
Meditate on this, I will.
I think Lucas is actually looking at things from a somewhat unique POV in the movie industry. He's actually willing to go back and fix things and not leave some screwups out there for all eternity. I think it's almost like a software company sending out updates for a program. They recognize the imperfections and fix them. So does Lucas. He has the will and the means to fix his mistakes. I can't fault him for going back and making the best movie that he can, even after the theatrical release.
I see what you're saying, but the original versions of SW occupy such a unique position in cinematic history that I believe they should be preserved for their historical value (artistic debates being an entirely separate issue). I don't see the harm in having the originals available, if for no other reason than as a basis for comparison with the updated versions.
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What adds insult to injury for the creator is that every time you see the finished work, you see or hear every imperfection.
I think that is absolutely true. He certainly is in a unique situation, where every single thing he does is criticized ad nauseaum.
On the issue of things that he's gone back and fixed, is anyone really bothered by the fact that he moved the rank insignia on Admiral Piett's uniform to it's correct position at the end of TESB? Don't think so. Do people like the way that the cgi Jabba looks in the DVD version of ANH? Hell yeah! It's looks much better than the inflated orange garbage bag that looked like Jabba in the '96 special edition. How about the windows in the Cloud City corridors that we saw in the special edition as opposed to the plain white walls that were in the 1980 theatrical version of TESB?
... I can't fault him for going back and making the best movie that he can, even after the theatrical release.
I don't mind him changing the mistakes, but the add-ons are awful to me. Yes, Jabba looks better, in the DVD (without a doubt), but he would look best if he wasn't in there at all. This is just a rehash of the Greedo scene, and is mildly distracting. You bring up very valid points, Nicklab. :)
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No offense, but that last bit is a really dumb statement. You try to make the appearance of some character be the same as the lack of a character in one movie after 3 he was in.
Fair enough. I don't think it's a dumb statement though. Just making a point that the idea of adding the Emperor is silly. He wasn't in three films when ANH was made, because there was only one film at that time. To go back and add him would be as choppy as when Jabba was added. It would not enhace the story at all (just as the Jabba scene did not). I don't need Sidious added to make the story better.
Myeah, your POV. In my view, Vader runs the show in TESB and ROTJ, while in ANH, he really is just some dumb dog for Tarkin.
In TESB, he can unleash all his power, like he did in ROTS. So why oh why, would this tragic hero, this troubled mind, submit himself to being bossed around.
He is the right hand of the Emperor, he helped create the Empire, he secured the Empire by wiping out the Jedi, why would he be content with being told what to do by Tarkin in the way he does in ANH?
No one said he was content; he was jus doing as he was told. There is mutual respect between Tarkin and Vader, and it's not all about power struggles anymore. Vader may be evil, but he's not dumb either. The Emperror says be cool, and he's cool. Tarkin is a big part of the Empire and its success.
Myeah, really connects with that rage Anakin has in ROTS, and what he also shows in the duel in TESB, just before he severs Luke's hand.
But again, your POV.
Of course it's my POV. Every single post on every single thread is a point of view. Yours is too, and I may not agree with it, but that's cool. We're all buds here. Vader isn't a mindless thug; if you want that, check out T2 for robotic killing machines. Vader is a bit more complex than that.
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I think Lucas is actually looking at things from a somewhat unique POV in the movie industry. He's actually willing to go back and fix things and not leave some screwups out there for all eternity. I think it's almost like a software company sending out updates for a program. They recognize the imperfections and fix them. So does Lucas. He has the will and the means to fix his mistakes. I can't fault him for going back and making the best movie that he can, even after the theatrical release.
From Valin Kenobi
I see what you're saying, but the original versions of SW occupy such a unique position in cinematic history that I believe they should be preserved for their historical value (artistic debates being an entirely separate issue). I don't see the harm in having the originals available, if for no other reason than as a basis for comparison with the updated versions.
I agree with the historial argument and sentiment. I also think that in all actuality there is an archived version of the 1977 release in a vault, somewhere. I don't think anyone is trying to destroy the film as it was originally presented. Film preservation is actually a fairly signifigant issue in the movie industry. A great deal of old films have been lost due to poor storage of the original negatives and deterioration of that stock.
But I think Lucas has taken this public stance that "the original films don't exist" so that he can avoid the debate about what should be out and what shouldn't. I think there is tremendous potential for that issue to become totally unruly, since many a fanboy fancies themself an uber film critic. Why not cut that kind of nonsense off at the pass?
I think ultimately, as far as what is on the market, the ball is in George Lucas's court. He is going to want the version he likes out on the commercial market. He's the owner of this intellectual property and it's his right to exercise his artistic control over the movies. If a fan is so intent on having the theatrical release, or the '96 release, they can always have their VHS versions burned to DVD so that they last longer in better condition. Lord knows there are enough bootlegs of them out there that you can buy DVD versions of the various releases if you want them.
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I would not mind an added scene on a DVD extras menu. You click on an extras menu and select added scenes kind of like deleted scenes. Or an option to insert extra scenes into the film as a whole. If technology allows this?
The only scene I would care to see the Emperor in ANH would be as an extra scene showing him "disbanding" the Senate. Or maybe even a scene where he is a hologram (his back to the audience) facing Vader telling him to go ahead and blow up Alderaan. Or how about him telling Vader (still as a hologram) the Senate has been disbanded and to go ahead with the destruction of Alderaan. That way we still don't really see the Emperor until ESB. If you go from 4-6 instead of 1-6.
But as far as adding an Emperor scene in ANH itself I don't know about that. We already have a clunky Jabba scene in there. Later we have that Biggs/Luke exchange which is kind of weak also. I don't mind Lucas giving us extra scenes like those but not in the film itself.
Again if he wants to do that stuff it's ok actually. It's not what I would do but I am not the creator or the billionaire he has become. But why can't we have the original as it was on DVD someway?
I guess I will just have to breakdown and buy a bootleg of it afterall.
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I agree, it just makes things clunky. If he wants to mess around with everything, whatever, but give us the originals also (pretty please with sugar on top!), just from an historical and cultural perspective. After all, the '77 version are what launched everything in the first place.
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I know exactly the reason for the changes to Episodes 4,5, and 6. George Lucas tinkered with A New Hope, The Empire Strikes Back, and Return of the Jedi primarily to keep in line with The Phantom Menace (which explains the change of Jabba the Hutt in A New Hope), Attack of the Clones (which explains why Temuera Morrison redubbed the voice of Boba Fett in The Empire Strikes Back, and maybe even why the hologram of Emperor Palpatine was changed to Ian McDiarmid and that was a change that I thought was a good change), and Revenge of the Sith (which explains the most notable change which was in Return of the Jedi when they changed the ghost of Anakin Skywalker from Sebastian Shaw to Hayden Christensen. Also, do not call me an idiot or anything but I liked that change and it explained the saga better).
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Its way too much and he won't shell it out (well maybe when people start sending him death threats)
Heh heh heh...
Dear,
Mr. Lucas.
I want to play a game...the rules are simple.
Return the original copies of the star wars trilogy onto DVD or you will have to go through a swimming pool of broken star wars dvds and cds and you must find the unbroken original dvds.
Let the games begin... :o
I wonder what he would think if he got something along those lines? :P
Oh well, if he wants to screw them up let him.
I meen hes getting old and insane as the years go by I myself can only expect him to Release a "Special Special(with a capitol R) Edition" and that will be his true vision.
A luke with a purple lightsaber and everybody will have walkie talkies instead of blasters.
Oh yeah and he will replace ESB with episodes of teletubbies.
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He's not really messing with it again is he ?
What's he gonna do this time ? Have Han and Greedo shake hands ?
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Nah, hes gonna make them have a "Bros Hug".
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Its way too much and he won't shell it out (well maybe when people start sending him death threats)
Heh heh heh...
Dear,
Mr. Lucas.
I want to play a game...the rules are simple.
Return the original copies of the star wars trilogy onto DVD or you will have to go through a swimming pool of broken star wars dvds and cds and you must find the unbroken original dvds.
Let the games begin... :o
I wonder what he would think if he got something along those lines? :P
Oh well, if he wants to screw them up let him.
I meen hes getting old and insane as the years go by I myself can only expect him to Release a "Special Special(with a capitol R) Edition" and that will be his true vision.
A luke with a purple lightsaber and everybody will have walkie talkies instead of blasters.
Oh yeah and he will replace ESB with episodes of teletubbies.
Hahahaha... That sounds like something straight out of the movie Saw. Clone Commander, is your name Jigsaw?
Anyway, I'm just happy that everyone in Indiana Jones and Star Wars wasn't digitally made into Ewoks yet. I don't really mind the changes, but if George starts adding and taking out whole scenes, then there would be something terribly wrong there. And he should be shot. But until then, what are we gonna do?
(I am talking about the changes as in the 1997 tapes, cause I have yet to see the DVD. )
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I watched saw too many times. :P
But yeah if he does try to delete entire scenes then who knows what kind of crap he'll pull afterwards.
-shivers at the thought of teletubies instead of battle droids-
Well I for one dont mind the changes of fetts voice ect. but I would care if he decides to go ahead and take out scenes.
Is he losing his mind or something?
Damn you Lucas! DAMN YOU!!!
Then again you cant win every battle...especially against the guy who thought of the entire thing you want back. :-\
Not too many options.
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The changes that are made are not for what fans want, it is actually to make the saga make sense and to make sure that both the prequel trilogy (The Phantom Menace, Attack of the Clones, and Revenge of the Sith) and the original trilogy (A New Hope, The Empire Strikes Back and Return of the Jedi) keep in line with each other.
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c'mon, it's what the guy wants, can't we respect that? Besides, last time I checked, he DID create the movies. ::)
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Yeah but you think he would/should have made those kinds of changes during the script writing for the last 3 movies and made them fit the originals then instead of what he's doing now though.
The changes that are made are not for what fans want, it is actually to make the saga make sense and to make sure that both the prequel trilogy (The Phantom Menace, Attack of the Clones, and Revenge of the Sith) and the original trilogy (A New Hope, The Empire Strikes Back and Return of the Jedi) keep in line with each other.
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everybody will have walkie talkies instead of blasters.
LOL,South Park.That was a good episode.
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Yeah but you think he would/should have made those kinds of changes during the script writing for the last 3 movies and made them fit the originals then instead of what he's doing now though.
The changes that are made are not for what fans want, it is actually to make the saga make sense and to make sure that both the prequel trilogy (The Phantom Menace, Attack of the Clones, and Revenge of the Sith) and the original trilogy (A New Hope, The Empire Strikes Back and Return of the Jedi) keep in line with each other.
I agree with this its not so much that he made changes in the movies, he just didnt do them in the right movies, he should have made the changes in the prequel movies so they fit in with the Original Trilogy, and what the hell was he thinking by putting Jar Jar Binks in any movie.