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Collecting => Customs => Customs Community and Group Projects => Topic started by: In Rem on December 6, 2005, 10:11 AM

Title: Quittin' RS Customs Board
Post by: In Rem on December 6, 2005, 10:11 AM
Guys and Gals -

From now on, I'll be doing almost all of my posting here. The tone of some of the Noobs on RS has gotten embarassingly bad, and I've decided to leave it behind.

I'm only posting this b/c I want folks here to know the reason I'm no longer commenting there or posting my work there.

I'll still, of course, post comments and occassional work here to share with what seems like the last best haven for polite, informed, and interesting conversation and comments about SW customs. :)

That is all.
Title: Re: Quittin' RS Customs Board
Post by: CHEWIE on December 6, 2005, 10:24 AM
InRem, your feelings towards that place are part of an ever increasing crowd of people fed up with RS.  I've been very close to leaving there too.  It seemed the only section that hadn't been contaminated there with absolute chaos was the customs and custom dioramas sections, but now it's happening there too.  Sorry to hear - but you will ALWAYS have a good home here.

 :P
Title: Re: Quittin' RS Customs Board
Post by: In Rem on December 6, 2005, 10:48 AM
Thanks, CHEWIE. It's recent "comments" to some of your work that's been really ticking me off. People act like you owe them something, and when they don't like something they just trash it without explanation. I don't think that's what this whole exercise is about, so I'm not going to post my work there.

I'll still visit those boards, and to the extent I can't offer a comment here I'll do so there. But I'm not going to invest too much in that board.

I'm thankful for JD; I feel like most of the folks here understand manners and respect the hard work put into making custom little plastic men, droids, and aliens. :)

I just hope the mods here run a tighter ship if things start to slide over time as they have there.  8)
Title: Re: Quittin' RS Customs Board
Post by: Glassman6 on December 6, 2005, 11:19 AM
Funny, i was just thinking the same thing.
Scum was the first site i found about customizing, so it's been my home. I honestly didnt know there were more people like me that were changing their figures. I was glad/shocked to see the large community of folks doing the same thing i was doing. I learned all my current techniques from the folks that used to be there.

I stick around in case some of my favorite customizers retrun with new stuff.

But i am about ready to give up...

Title: Re: Quittin' RS Customs Board
Post by: CHEWIE on December 6, 2005, 11:24 AM
I'd mention something over there about it, but I'm sure it would result in a banning.

 :P
Title: Re: Quittin' RS Customs Board
Post by: In Rem on December 6, 2005, 11:40 AM
I'd mention something over there about it, but I'm sure it would result in a banning.

 :P


Which is ironic, actually. You don't often see real irony anymore. :)
 
Title: Re: Quittin' RS Customs Board
Post by: Victor_Von_Doom on December 6, 2005, 11:54 AM
I'd mention something over there about it, but I'm sure it would result in a banning.

 :P


I guarantee that if you weren't banned you'd end up on a watch list. ANYTHING relatively against Scum is not only locked, but deleted.

As far as Scum's custom section goes, I definitely agree with you. I am always willing to help out a newbie, but when they just say something extremely vague like "I want to make a figure need help" and then don't even post coherently, it gets very old.

I don't know about you, but it seems to me some of the replies people give to others in the customs section are just to raise post counts, and lack any real insight or suggestion. I try to point out two positive and one negative thing in each custom I see, because I know I would love constructive criticism on my customs. I know people on other forums regard Scum's custom section as having newbie comments, and that people just post "Great, awesome!" in each thread without looking at the figures. I really tried to stop posting in there unless I can give a long post, or if the poster asks for some ways to improve it.

CHEWIE, In Rem, and Glassman6, I LOVE all your customs and have many pictures of them saved on my computer, so if I don't always respond to one of your threads it usually means I think its great but don't want to soung like a broken record :P

I usually read the custom threads here, but rarely reply. I'll try to respond on here more. 

(end of rant)
Title: Re: Quittin' RS Customs Board
Post by: CHEWIE on December 6, 2005, 12:20 PM
Well, this issue has been on my mind for a while, so I posted something over there about it. 

Just an observation here - I have noticed that recently there have been quite a few comments (usually by the newer crowd) that don't seem very helpful... more critical than anything.

Certain members act like you owe them something, and when they don't like something they just trash it without explanation. That isn't what the fun of customizing is supposed to be about and from some conversations over the past few months with some fellow customizers who have been around here for years, some have started to become disgusted with some of this action, and choose to post here less, which I don't like to see.

The feeling has begun to hit me too, that several people who come into here don't understand the manners or respect the hard work that 95% of us here put into our work. And then there are a select few who seem to think their work is better than everyone else's, which to me is a major turnoff and I can't even bear to look at some of your work - I am referring to people who never chat on here, other than to post a custom that we all know is going to ebay and all they write is "Enjoy!" ...conceit is a very negative attribute - nobody around here has made the "perfect" custom.

So, I ask for anyone who feels this way to not give up on this customizing community, and for the people who like to come in here and make critical statements without any sort of intelligence in your posting, to either grow up now, or come back later when you have matured some.

We don't need the Greeday's of the world, post padders, the bashers, or constant negativity in what many of us consider to be the holy section of this forum. We should work together to make this a better site, help each other, give constructive criticism, offer advice, communicate in a mature manner, and above all, enjoy and respect the work of everyone in this section.


Thanks Guys!

 :P
Title: Re: Quittin' RS Customs Board
Post by: Ryan on December 6, 2005, 12:37 PM
Glad to see you started to realize what many of us did months ago. ;)

Justin is going to get banned again, and I think they might do it on purpose this time. If you say anything remotely negative about that place Philip and Dustin will delete the topic and immediately ban you.

I really don't miss that place.
Title: Re: Quittin' RS Customs Board
Post by: Quazar on December 6, 2005, 12:38 PM
While I given up on the custom board over there, in fairness, the diorama board is THRIVING with some amazing work by some new members.

I urge everyone here to check it out and reply.  The tone on that board is far more civil and supportive and the artists really do deserve a helluva lot of credit.  

So if you think the tone at RS is bad, then I would suggest showing those folks over there how it's done!  Drop by the diorama board and join the conversation!
Title: Re: Quittin' RS Customs Board
Post by: Ryan on December 6, 2005, 12:40 PM
While I given up on the custom board over there, in fairness, the diorama board is THRIVING with some amazing work by some new members.

I urge everyone here to check it out and reply.  The tone on that board is far more civil and supportive and the artists really do deserve a helluva lot of credit.  

So if you think the tone at RS is bad, then I would suggest showing those folks over there how it's done!  Drop by the diorama board and join the conversation!

Some of us aren't allowed to be over there anymore. ;)
Title: Re: Quittin' RS Customs Board
Post by: CHEWIE on December 6, 2005, 12:42 PM
Well, hopefully I won't get banned there because that's not my intent.  I know some people don't care for the place, but I do still like the customizing sections there a lot.  I hope my post will be construed as trying to help things out there, not rip on anyone.

 :P
Title: Re: Quittin' RS Customs Board
Post by: Victor_Von_Doom on December 6, 2005, 01:00 PM
I don't think you will get banned; your thread is just trying to help people remember the focus of customizing and not really against Rebelscum or its staff.
Title: Re: Quittin' RS Customs Board
Post by: Owen D on December 6, 2005, 01:09 PM
Gotta say, its sort of sad to hear these comments.  I think no matter what, RS is going to be THE forums for SW and if you guys just cut and run because of idiot newbies you're only doing  a disservice to yourself.  If you don't like the posts or posters, don't reply to them.  Or, better yet, assert yourselves and set the newbs straight.  I've noticed a lot of people are claiming to move exclusively here but if you do that the idiots are going to just follow you.  I've noticed it here already that there's a few spelling and grammatically challenged newbs.  You're all better off just taking a stand at RS.

And, this is a little pet peeve of mine.  If a newbie poster (or anyone for that matter) puts forth a badly spelled or incoherent post, don't reply!  Just let it hang there like the piece of nonsense it is.  There's no motive for people to change their use of English if you treat it like it's valid and coherent.  Just let stupid and poorly worded posts hang there, let the idiots post pad with dumb comments but you don't have to enter the fray.  Hopefully, they'll either leave or brush up on their use of English.   You don't have to help the helpless.
Title: Re: Quittin' RS Customs Board
Post by: In Rem on December 6, 2005, 01:35 PM
Owen -

I think you have a valid point, but the question for me is one of time and personal investment. I see serious problems with the tone of the boards at RS with little understanding or respect for the work that is actually posted. I've always had good luck with comments on my work, so it's not even about me. It's just that I feel like (and this is going to sound so awful) the folks over there aren't worth my taking the extra time to post my stuff and to reciprocate with the kinds of comments I like to leave. I try to put some thought into comments I leave and hopefully add to the conversation, but that's not a value of that board 80% of the time. I feel like JD has that value at its core.

If I thought slapping down the NooBs would help, I'd go after 'em. Aside from the time required to do that kind of housekeeping, I don't think it will change much. I think part of the problem there is the fact that RS is a central hub for so much SW conversation, it tends to net the good with the bad. Right now you kinda have to discover JD's custom forum through interest in the hobby, so RS filters a lot of the dregs before they get here...

I don't know. My patience is just exhausted. The dioramas section, though, is still quite good. :)

I certainly didn't mean to lead a revolt by my initial post. It was more a courtesy to the fine folks here to let them know what was up with me...

Title: Re: Quittin' RS Customs Board
Post by: Ruprecht on December 6, 2005, 01:43 PM
Quote
I've noticed it here already that there's a few spelling and grammatically challenged newbs.

I tak issew w/that b/c i lik 2 spll gud & nobuddie's purfekt and i lik to mayk kustumz and I lik 2 eet hamburgerz lol help w/a custum figeurpleez!...?
Title: Re: Quittin' RS Customs Board
Post by: Glassman6 on December 6, 2005, 02:16 PM
Owen, I agree with your concern about abandoning the forum altogether, but getting into a "shouting match" with a noob isnt the answer, casue that is what will happen if you try to " set them straight".

Ignoring them is the best solution, but it's the fact that you have to even be bothered by it at all.

I dont mind critisizm, at all( i went thru architecture school and thats all you get there), and you cant and wont please everyone, but its the other stuff that make it hard to want to keep going back for more nonsense.



 
Title: Re: Quittin' RS Customs Board
Post by: Nirvana on December 6, 2005, 03:51 PM
Im mostly going to put my customs up there just to see the stupid, incoherent, one word replies and the occasional nice one, and everyone I know that puts up a nice one is someone over here. I mean, look at this:

Great job ?? There's not even any puncuation, for Pete's sake!

And then there's this:

I like it - the weathering and battle damage on the ship are extremely well done. Looks very heavy and believable if this is a downed/heavily battle scarred ship

The paintjob shows eveidence of good techniques - do you have a military modelling background? I did and it helps with weathering etc

Good work dude!


There's such a huge difference between some of the replies/ users over there. This is definitely a better place.
Title: Re: Quittin' RS Customs Board
Post by: Smartypants1635 on December 6, 2005, 07:45 PM
rebelscum has become a pit and im not going to ffurg that often anymore because somepeople are heading over there from rs so this is my new home it makes me aggravated when this kind of stuff happens at sites that have good intent.
Title: Re: Quittin' RS Customs Board
Post by: JediDre on December 6, 2005, 08:18 PM
I can remember my first years of internet access...scouring the web for anything entertaining.  I remember typing 'Star Wars' into Webcrawler's search engine and coming across a neat page by this Phllip Wise guy.  It was dedicated to his love of Star Wars, and collecting of Star Wars memorabilla.  I was hooked, it brought me back to my love of toys.  Then I stumbled upon the customizing section.  I was addicted then.  My first custom was a Han in stormtrooper armor, not the hardest thing in the world, but we all started somewhere.  Now my wife looks at me like I'm crazy.  I have shelves of figures, many of which have been 'altered' in some way.  It's sad to see such a great web page go from a grass roots style to being over run by the unmatured, and unmannered.  I only recently started posting on Scum, and have just today signed up here, but I too feel change is good.  Even if it is 10 years or so in the making.

Just my random ramblings for now...

Dre
Title: Re: Quittin' RS Customs Board
Post by: Darth_Ennis on December 6, 2005, 08:27 PM
Guys I know I've been away for a little while, But has it really gotten that bad? Ive apparantly missed a lot in the last 3 months. :(
Title: Re: Quittin' RS Customs Board
Post by: Nirvana on December 6, 2005, 08:46 PM
Yeah. These users that don't know how to spell or type coherent sentences are usually criticsizing (sp.?) everyone's work and not really leave any substantail comments. JD's definetly the best place to go.
Title: Re: Quittin' RS Customs Board
Post by: Victor_Von_Doom on December 6, 2005, 09:39 PM
Guys I know I've been away for a little while, But has it really gotten that bad? Ive apparantly missed a lot in the last 3 months. :(

As much as I hate to say it, yes, yes it has. Scum has been going downhill for a while. I've tried to actually communicate with the admins about these problems and ways to maybe change them, and I never got any replies, just read reciepts. I'm not someone who constantly is trying to change things either; I've only sent 5 or so to the admins this year. For instance, this is what happened today:

I sent a PM to an administrator offering suggestions and some changes that need to be made. I sent a PM almost exactly like this one 2 months ago and never  got a response, just a read reciept. Guess what happened this time? That's right, read reciept and no response. I'm pissed because I put a lot of thought and effort into the PMs I sent. Each PM was pretty long, with around 10 or so paragraphs. I was very cordial and didn't say anything critical of him or Rebelscum at all, just some suggestions of things that need to be changed. What makes me even angrier is that I don't think the admin even read it because of its length; a minute later (it would have taken more than a minute to read) the admin was making a reply in a thread that was completely off topic than the one I sent him. I've been there for over 3 years and have, IMHO, been a good productive member there, so to just sort of ignore what I had to say is rude.
Title: Re: Quittin' RS Customs Board
Post by: Darth_Ennis on December 6, 2005, 10:13 PM
Well, I see what you guys mean now, I just got off RS, Gave a couple of people a peice of my mind too. After seeing all that Ive got half a mind to quit myself.
Title: Re: Quittin' RS Customs Board
Post by: CHEWIE on December 6, 2005, 11:47 PM
Well, I know some people are pretty frustrated with it there.  And it's not just the customizing community, most of the elder members from this site have issues with RS.  I want to still try and stay out of it and I'm sure there are people on both sides that are somewhat angry at me for that.  My post over there was to try and keep the customizing section there fun.

 :P

Title: Re: Quittin' RS Customs Board
Post by: Jesse James on December 7, 2005, 12:50 AM
I think no matter what, RS is going to be THE forums for SW and if you guys just cut and run because of idiot newbies you're only doing  a disservice to yourself. 

Why?

Because there's more people there than other sites?  That's not quality, it's quantity, and while that can prove to be a valuable "resource" as opposed to a real "community" that has nothing to do with it being anything "premiere" to me personally...  I'd sooner have fewer people see what I had to say but know that I respected those people, than to have more people see what I have to say and know that 85 - 90% of them will be responses I wasted my time reading.  To me that's just a popularity contest for those who want people to see their work more than they want valuable input on their work or to build a real friendship with anyone they talk to. 

If you want substance, Rebelscum was NEVER the place to go to until Philip took the Bounty Hunter Collective out from under Mike Sullenger during their merger with Collect Star Wars.  Scum had no forum activity till that point, and from there on out it was another man's work that was basically taken from him.  Hardly anything I hold in high regard.

My first customizing experience was with the Forgotten Force Customizing ListServer...  THAT was a valuable community, but it was wholely separate of Rebelscum.com proper, but instead was just a mailing list full of useful users, useful content, and good conversation...  until...  Basically like everything else Rebelscum touches it turned to lead instead of gold.

There was no moderation, there was no structure, there was no real guidelines or rules that people were held to for the listserver, and subsequently as customizing grew as a hobby that listserver fell apart in disarray with every new poster.  It became a place where good customizing conversation was nye on impossible, and people who didn't want to find a forum home took over the listserver as their personal conversation platform about all topics.  It killed it, but fortunately www.FFURG.com have taken the intiative to make a single customizing community for all, it's just that all don't take the time to be a part of said community alongside their other net travels.  It could only help everyone though.

Rebelscum lets the same disarray that happens in all facets of their forums take place in the customizing area, so that to me isn't something I personally want to be a part of.  The good people there deserve better than to have an essentially lawless discussion area for their hobby.  You shouldn't have to "just ignore" the newbies, they should be dealt with and taught how to behave with proper "netiquette".  That's how we handle things and we've found our members appreciate that and the site grows subsequently.

Quote
I've noticed a lot of people are claiming to move exclusively here but if you do that the idiots are going to just follow you.  I've noticed it here already that there's a few spelling and grammatically challenged newbs.  You're all better off just taking a stand at RS.

Oh please Owen, don't compare this section's couple of "new" members to Rebelscum's.  That's hardly fair, and we actually handle "newbs/newbies" or whatever they may be referred to with due action.  I can't say that happens at Scum, nor is it ever worried about much.  If the problems follow anyone here, they'll be dealt with, and certainly people "flaming" or trolling over here are dealt with straight away.  All it needs is a mention to one of the staff incase we didn't notice it already, and problems will be solved according to the problem being reviewed.

That's not to say that if you want to be at Rebelscum we care one way or the other either.  You can go to Rebelscum and stay, or visit both, or whatever...  But much like people mentioning ANYTHING to do with JediDefender.com there (even in passing reference)  isn't going to be tolerated at Scum anymore, I can safely say that telling people to blatantly flat out NOT come to JD on our own site because it's "not in their best interests" isn't going to be tolerated much here either, so let that be just a simple warning.

If you don't appreciate the site here though at JediDefender.com, that's fine by us really because it's often just a matter of tastes and we still hope anyone visits even if it's not their only site they frequent.  We appreciate the people from all sites who visit our customizing forums (and forums in general) to display their wares equally, but considering the activity levels here, the moderating, and the level of interest in quality we take with our forums, we feel we do offer the better community.

Quote
And, this is a little pet peeve of mine.  If a newbie poster (or anyone for that matter) puts forth a badly spelled or incoherent post, don't reply!  Just let it hang there like the piece of nonsense it is.

Shouldn't it be a bigger pet peeve to have someone who actually cares step in and tell the new person to straighten up or fly right?  Perhaps it's our attention towards building a more adult-focused community that makes us care about the quality of posters here as opposed to those at other sites, but isn't that something beneficial to a largely adult community/niche aspect of the Star Wars hobby?

And this is true throughout our forums...  Our collecting portions of our modern, vintage, and various other aspects of our forums are filled with a more mature, adult edge to them.  We take our members seriously, we take our forum seriously, and we want you to have a fun experience here at JediDefender.com...  We don't want you to just have to ignore the "kids" or "newbs", but instead we hope they grow into mature posters or they'll just not last here long at all. 

In many respects, while we do have a more open nature here at our site and a laid back atmosphere of strong friendships throughout our forums, we also rule here with an iron fist when the need does arise.  That's because this is our home, and your home, and we want it treated with respect in all ways because that reflects on us directly.  Over yonder though, that's an afterthought at best honestly.

I've always liked the customs you have made Owen, and I think you have valuable customizing input, but in the grand scheme of things I think your logic about why you should stay at a site that is so far downhill is flawed at best.  There's no law that says other communities are incapable of becoming what you actually want them to be instead of waiting on a community you are already at to turn into something that it isn't.  Closing your ears to problems doesn't make them go away at all, and it doesn't make a community thrive and grow in a healthy way.  That's what authority figures are for at forums, to keep the ship straight basically and avert danger.

This customizing community has made huge leaps, and not by my hand, or Jeff's, or Dave's, or Jesse's...  It's made huge leaps because of you guys being active here.  The same activity you can bring anywhere else within the JediDefeneder.com forums if you want.  We are just here making sure these forums stay positive for you guys, and we obviously take note of the conversation in here to make sure everything's going smoothly...  I say if you want to make this your home, we welcome you with open arms of course, but we also welcome those of you who have the respect to visit other sites too... 

At the same time though, if you aren't happy somewhere turning your senses off to the problems isn't going to fix anything or make your community better, nor is fighting and argument.  If your needs aren't met, I do find that it's time to look for a new home.  I did that a long time ago, and I found this place...  It's my cup of tea, and I drink up quite happily every bit I'm here.
Title: Re: Quittin' RS Customs Board
Post by: Ryan on December 7, 2005, 12:54 AM
Owen- You bring up some good points, but I have to disagree with you. I tried to stick it out there for a while. RS was the place I learned how to customize. I think the very first customs I saw were in a ToyFare magazine years ago, Pre-Episode 1 days. I really never got online when I was younger but about 3 years ago I just randomly did a google search for Star Wars custom figures and ended Up at Scum. The first thing I saw was a really neat Desert Swoop and Imperial Rider. I immediately joined and slowly picked up on the techniques. I know I had some of the same Noob questions, everyone is one at somepoint. But I at least tried to post them coherently. Even when a few bad members started joining, the custom section there was a haven of sorts. It was a great group of guys who could just talk about customizing. That was back when Tony Rice (Scoundrel), Sarlacc Pit, Phruby, CHEWIE, Glassman6, and a lot of the others were around. There was usually a great new custom up everyday from at least one of them. I do miss that, but those days are long gone as some of the older member left.

As this year began, (even towards the midway point of last year) TONS, of people started joining because it was a movie year. Which isn't necassarily bad, but they all suffered from a severe case of retarded. Even now there are still some good people and dicussions there (from what I've heard from Lance and Justin anyways) but I got tired of sorting through piles of crap to find the one or two decent posts. I ignored that kind of stuff the best I could for a while. But eventually I started trying to coorect the newbies, I think I had even started a thread like Justin's at one point. It ended up getting me a warning from the staff.  

As bad as the membership has gotten it was problems with the staff that sent me packing. I'm sure that most of you have at least heard of the spamming incident that occured back in late March. I had never recieved a spam message from any of the other sites I am a member at so it was a little annoying that Philip would do that. That was all it was, though, just annoying. Jason (CorranHorn) started a thread in their feedback section just innocently asking what was up with that. He said it politely and didn't make a huge deal about it. A couple other people including myself agree with him. In response Big Phil told us that he was the webmaster and it was his site so he could do whatever he wanted. Someone told how crappy of an attitude that was when he pulled a comment out of his ass that was just as bad as GNT's "I'm God. Deal with it." He told everyone to "get a life and move on." Any feedback thread that is remotely critical of RS is locked and deleted without question. After that little incident Philip and Justin banned all the JD staff members from RS. For no reason. CHEWIE was also banned, on accident, but he was still banned. I started a thread on how ridiculous I though that was, apparently it lasted for all of 20 or 30 minutes before it was deleted and I was banned too. And then ther is the recent change in their views on scalping. They used to enfore the "collect to collect" motto, but recently they have almost been encouraging scalping. They are doing nothing to stop it in their classifieds and it is getting to be more of a problem. There are also the members in the customs section that just use it as a place to advertise their work that is on ebay. I don't remember that being a problem at all in my earlier days, and it hasn't been here. There are so many things wrong with that place now that I'm sick of dealing with it.

Quote
I think no matter what, RS is going to be THE forums for SW and if you guys just cut and run because of idiot newbies you're only doing  a disservice to yourself.


Owen I've got to disagree with that. I am enjoying myself much more now than I ever did there. There is no point in staying at thatkind of place when a much better one exists. Sure there are some members here that have grammar bad enough that it rivals the majority of RS these days, but you are going to find that anywhere. I have made more friends here in the past 8 months than I did my entire time at RS. It is a much more close knit group over here and there are fewer "bad" members.

I kind of miss the RS of old, but I have to say that I really am much happier here and I have no intentions of going back.

Justin, no one minds that you are rying to remain civil and neutral on the issue. I can't say for sure but aren't most of the good posters in the customs section there members here as well? I know there are a few who are strictly Scummers, like New_Bornlax, I really enjoyed his stuff, and wish he posted here. I'll shut up now I guess. :P

Jesse it always sucks following one of your essays BTW, I guess I can't type fast enough. Cause I started before your's was up.  :P
Title: Re: Quittin' RS Customs Board
Post by: In Rem on December 7, 2005, 01:58 AM
Wow. Guys, I really didn't mean to precipitate a big thing here... I was just sayin'...

Now go look at my update and give me some ideas! Let's get back to business! :)
Title: Re: Quittin' RS Customs Board
Post by: Owen D on December 7, 2005, 01:48 PM
I can safely say that telling people to blatantly flat out NOT come to JD on our own site because it's "not in their best interests" isn't going to be tolerated much here either, so let that be just a simple warning.

If you don't appreciate the site here

Ok.  No biggie.
Not that I ever posted here much to begin with (the orange on blue text style really messes with my eyes, giving me a weird 3D effect) but I'm outta here.  Later, OJD
Title: Re: Quittin' RS Customs Board
Post by: In Rem on December 7, 2005, 02:06 PM
Ok, not that I ever posted here much to begin with (the orange on blue test style really messses with my eyes, giving me a weird 3D effect) but I'm outta here.  Later, OJD

Well, that sucks...  :(
Title: Re: Quittin' RS Customs Board
Post by: CHEWIE on December 7, 2005, 03:08 PM
Owen, I really, really hate to see you leave here.  I know you didn't post a whole lot here, but I know you have a lot to offer besides just your unreal customizing ability.   I hope this doesn't affect our friendship at all, and that you might reconsider.   :-\

And I hope that everyone can respect Owen's opinion - it seemed like a bit of a personal attack towards him.  His opinion may be different than some people's, but I don't think any finger should be pointed at him for a difference in opinion on what he thinks, or how he would handle situations.

I don't think a difference of opinion should stir any bad blood either - I understand that RS may be a bigger site than here and possibly always will be - I see it as quality vs. quantity.  I don't necessarily think RS is bad, I just think it's oversized which results in problems and maybe the people running it see it as more of a business.

As for the retarded newbies - we all seem to agree that people like that are a negative - we just have different ways of dealing with them.  I've found that different solutions work for different people.  Quite often the best way is to just be firm and deal with them from the top.  I am sure there are instances though where a person can mature over time and still be an asset to a site.  I know at first at www.yakface.com, some of the older members there didn't care for me too much at first - I was an overly zealous collector that got on some people's nerves.

The question comes up from time to time, "Why is CHEWIE still active there?" - yes, because there are a lot of great people there, like Dan Curto, Newborn Alex and many others.  Plus I do make new friends there some too, so I don't think that completely cutting off a resource like RS is a good idea - I think that even though one may disagree with the politics of some places, it's still good to keep your options open.  Similar to the debate between conservatives and liberals - you may disagree, but ultimately it's important to still communicate. 

I know that RS did not hold up their end of the bargain with the way staff here were treated and their quick banning of anyone who voices a negative word about them - but I will never hold that against their forum members, and as a non staff member, I enjoy both sites and prefer to not cut off one site.  Both sites have their pluses - to me, RS is great for new information and photo archives - here at JD, I think the forums are run the best.  I do prefer JD as an overall site, but I still like to have a bit of Scum in me too.

 :P

Title: Re: Quittin' RS Customs Board
Post by: Victor_Von_Doom on December 7, 2005, 03:42 PM
[quote author=CHEWIE link=topic=10347.msg183656#msg183656

As for the retarded newbies - we all seem to agree that people like that are a negative - we just have different ways of dealing with them.  I've found that different solutions work for different people.  Quite often the best way is to just be firm and deal with them from the top.  I am sure there are instances though where a person can mature over time and still be an asset to a site.  I know at first at www.yakface.com, some of the older members there didn't care for me too much at first - I was an overly zealous collector that got on some people's nerves.
Quote

Thats a good point. A couple of newbies joined a few months ago and asked me for help. Initially they did not type better than Greenday. I gave them some advice - and they listened. I've been chatting with them regularly ever since, and its a good feeling to know that you are helping a new beginner get into this hobby and give them a warm welcome. They are both 13. One has become a productive, normal member, and while the other one needs a bit more work, he has made vast improvements.

However, if its some dumbass kid who thinks he knows better in his 3 minutes there than veteran members, screw him.
Title: Re: Quittin' RS Customs Board
Post by: Joe on December 7, 2005, 10:16 PM
I was gonna' join RS once   Whew am I glad I didnt (it dosent seem that bad though) 
Title: Re: Quittin' RS Customs Board
Post by: Ryan on December 7, 2005, 11:02 PM
Owen, I really, really hate to see you leave here.  I know you didn't post a whole lot here, but I know you have a lot to offer besides just your unreal customizing ability.   I hope this doesn't affect our friendship at all, and that you might reconsider.   :-\

And I hope that everyone can respect Owen's opinion - it seemed like a bit of a personal attack towards him.  His opinion may be different than some people's, but I don't think any finger should be pointed at him for a difference in opinion on what he thinks, or how he would handle situations.

I really hope that wasn't directed at me. If it is that's not at all how I intended it to sound.  I really didn't want to sound negative towards Owen at all, I just disagreed with him and was trying to point out why in a civil manner. I apologize if it seemed like I was attacking anyone cause that wasn't my intention at all. :-\
Title: Re: Quittin' RS Customs Board
Post by: Darth Delicious on December 7, 2005, 11:25 PM
Somehow I knew that after reading JJ's response (especially the simple warning part) it would degenerate into Owen leaving.

Just for the record, JJ, I think you overreacted. And I know a thing or two about overreacting. Remember ffurg?

-DD
Title: Re: Quittin' RS Customs Board
Post by: Famine on December 7, 2005, 11:39 PM
Wow. Things got awkward like Daddy just hit Mommy at the dinner table.

We all have our own feelings toward this, but let's not just cut and run, because we'd be doing a disservice to ourselves. ;)

Consider this a small warning to the both of you, from The Noderator.

Get a life and move it along.

Kevin
Title: Re: Quittin' RS Customs Board
Post by: CHEWIE on December 8, 2005, 02:16 AM
Ryan, that wasn't directed towards you at all - and it really wansn't a "rebellion statement" to what JJ posted, but I do think that it was a bit out of line, especially since everyone that is active in this section is a huge fan of Owen's work, and we all thouroughly enjoy when he does chime in his thoughts from time to time.  It will be a great shame if he doesn't come back.  But knowing Owen as well as I have been fortunate enough to through a million email conversations, I know he's not the type to try and push and argument - if he feels offended, then he moves on.  I haven't spoken with him about it yet, but I'm sure that's the way he feels.

I know that people here felt offended by RS and either did something to get themselve banned or outright left, and I'm afraid he just felt offended by this site and decided to take his stuff and go.  And JJ, I know that you meant no harm in your post - but I do think that someone who may not know you very well could feel pretty awkard and want to call it quits if spoken to like that by a senior staff member...

Anyways, I don't want this to escalate into something bigger.  And I'd love to see Owen back here.

 :P
Title: Re: Quittin' RS Customs Board
Post by: Jesse James on December 8, 2005, 02:19 AM
I can safely say that telling people to blatantly flat out NOT come to JD on our own site because it's "not in their best interests" isn't going to be tolerated much here either, so let that be just a simple warning.

If you don't appreciate the site here

Ok.  No biggie.
Not that I ever posted here much to begin with (the orange on blue text style really messes with my eyes, giving me a weird 3D effect) but I'm outta here.  Later, OJD

I'm sorry if you took things as me telling you to pack up and leave Owen, I didn't mean for that intent.  If you read my post, I was more than complementary of your work Owen, I think you're a good guy in customizing so that's not an issue.  

I was sending just a message that while we (IE: Everyone there) are not allowed to post, even in passing, that "this or that" is at "that site or this site" over at Rebelscum's forums, we are very tolerant about other sites being mentioned...  Really it's not even tolerance, it's simply that Star Wars collecting is not just one website, it's many and we dig all the news around all the sites, and all the customs at all the various sites...

However, telling people "You're better off being there than here" isn't going to fly.  I'm sorry some of you disagree with me saying that, but that's the way it is going to be here because that's simply coming in to a site you don't post at much (Owen), and completely disrespecting the people who DO work here and who DO post here.  I know you maybe feel that way, but I was ASKING you to drop that kind of talk was all...  I don't care if Scum's your home base for customs or not, I appreciated you coming by whatever ammount you felt you wanted to, and I'm sure everyone else does, but if you feel my warning to just respect our site was a note telling you to pack it up and go then is it really I who did the overreacting here?

Maybe I'm misreading things, but from my point of view I gave a warning about something that isn't acceptable on any forum.  Show some respect is the message and remember you can be here and there...  You can talk about here and there openly, but when you imply that you SHOULDN'T be here at JediDefender, and you SHOULD be there, then I'm sorry but that's just not cool by me.  You have to be respectful to this community, that's all.

I don't want any of you to quit either site if any of you don't want to.  Do what you want, and enjoy the hobby and help expand it and make it better, but when you're at a place you have to respect them...  Voicing opinions and criticism on a site is fine, we like hearing what the people think here but you have to also remember that we like keeping our members here, and don't want them being told they should be at such and such site instead...  Both sites though?  Yeah, I think people can and should (at times anyway) broad themselves.  Seems fair and logical to me as far as my stance is concerned.

Edit:

Again, this isn't disrespecting you Owen, or any of you...  It's just a request of respect for us over here, because we do want you here and we want you happy here, but we also don't want you to leave a site you're happier at...  My post isn't asking you to leave though, it's asking you to just remember that we like our members right where they are, and if people are wanting to come over here or make this the only place they want to post customs, telling them that they're "better off at....." is a really disrespectful way to speak of our forums on our forums.  That's all, and if anything I was more hurt to see you felt that way about our site.  We'd have appreciated seeing your post count increase with customs discussion I know, but either way we would want you at whatever site makes you happy, and if that's not ours then we're sad but not going to tell you that you're better off here.  You're better off where you're happiest.  Be cool if you pop in to say hi some though. ;)
Title: Re: Quittin' RS Customs Board
Post by: Phrubruh on December 8, 2005, 10:30 AM
Wow! How did I miss this thread? I guess I've been too busy at work to keep up. Anyway, I've decided that I will no longer post my customs at RS. The only people that comment on them there are basically members of this board. So why make you comment on the same thing twice?

I really love the sense of community we have round here. It reminds me of the old days Jesse James talks about on the old Forgotten Force Customizing ListServer. I really miss those emails of look what I just made. It was there that I saw my first painted R2 figure and thought that was so cool that someone painted him red. I had to get into this so I painted up a vintage death star droid to be movie accurate. It was also a great place to trade and get to know so many people. Heck, we didn't need ebay back then. We traded fodder and showed our results. It was fun seeing the legs I traded used on a new figure.

JD has a great store watch forum. Our southern California thread holds semi monthly meetings of collectors at different locations. We get together and have lunch and trade items we found. It would be great to do such a thing in the customizing section. It really promotes a sense of community. I also like how we stick up for each other when attacked at RS. This is just a really good place to be.

Now, I've found there are other smaller boards that have multiple custom sections such as marvel super heroes and GI Joe. Its fun to see what people can do outside of star wars. Heck, have you seen glassman's marvel superheros? Very cool!  Commando Customs one such site. They seem to have a completely different group of people there. They're GI Joe section is amazing!

Anyway, I'll continue to post comments over at RS but not new work. There are just too many sites I've found and I see the feedback over at RS to be the least helpful. I think the only moderator over at RS that's decent is Dan Curto. I think he's just too overwhelmed what with work, family, the custom alliance and the news postings to keep things under control over there. I wish the other moderators would help him more. Oh well.

By the way, when is someone going to fix the FFURG forum? It's been down all week!

Title: Re: Quittin' RS Customs Board
Post by: In Rem on December 8, 2005, 11:37 AM
Phruby -

Thank you for that. This thread has gotten into a bit of a venting exercise, and I never meant for it to be that at all. (In fact, I requested that this thread be locked or deleted last night, as it's turned into something I never intended)

I was merely saying:

"From now on, I'll be doing almost all of my posting here. The tone of some of the Noobs on RS has gotten embarassingly bad, and I've decided to leave it behind.

I'm only posting this b/c I want folks here to know the reason I'm no longer commenting there or posting my work there.

I'll still, of course, post comments and occassional work here to share with what seems like the last best haven for polite, informed, and interesting conversation and comments about SW customs."

I wasn't mad at RS; I wasn't mad at all. I was just burned out a little on sifting through RS and decided I wasn't going to post my work there anymore. From there it's blown up in to a big "thing". For me, until the past couple of days, it was never meant to be a thing at all.

Then CHEWIE posted over at RS asking for nothing more than a respectful forum there (a perfectly reasonable request, I might add), and some people have actually resisted that suggestion there (?!).

The response CHEWIE got from some people at RS kinda cemented my decision to keep things over here... I can only invest so much time and energy, and this is the place *I* - *PERSONALLY* - have decided to call home. I'm not bashing RS. I'm not bashing any individual. I'm not looking to change the world. I'm not even attempting to do any of that. I'm merely observing a difference, assessing my level of interest and enjoyment of customizing and sharing my work online, and making a personal choice.

Unfortuately we may have lost Owen to this, and that sucks. I'll just have to drop in on his site from time to time.

Now, before we upset anyone else over something that was never intended to upset anyone in the first place, let's admit that JD and RS are different and appeal to different tastes and lock this thing down. :)
Title: Re: Quittin' RS Customs Board
Post by: Jeff on December 8, 2005, 11:40 AM
Now, before we upset anyone else over something that was never intended to upset anyone in the first place, let's admit that JD and RS are different and appeal to different tastes and lock this thing down. :)

Fine by me... locked.

ps.
There are plenty of threads regarding RS that pop up in Watto's Junk Yard (http://www.jedidefender.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=10362.0) so feel free to discuss RS in one of those if you need to continue...