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Collectibles => The Vintage Collection => Collect All 92! => Topic started by: Matt on August 5, 2006, 02:33 PM

Title: Let's discuss the future of the retro-vintage line.
Post by: Matt on August 5, 2006, 02:33 PM
From Rebelscum's 6/24/06 411 report (http://www.rebelscum.com/story/front/The_411_Get_Ready_To_Drool_99045.asp):

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3 3/4" Limited Edition Vintage Assortment:

For the third wave of VOTC figures, we can expect much of the same, but as mentioned above, there is no point fixing what isn't broken. The new wave includes:

    ANH
    Jawa

    TESB
    Luke Skywalker (Bespin Fatigues)
    Imperial Stormtrooper (Hoth Battle Gear)
    Han Solo (Bespin Outfit)
    Bossk

    ROTJ
    Princess Leia Organa (Endor Battle Gear)

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Something semi-interesting from this week's Q & A:

Is it Hasbro's intention to release all of the vintage Kenner figures in the high end vintage figure series? If so, will we be seeing an "ultimate" version of Leia(Bespin Gown) sometime in the future? (YF, 8/04/06) (http://cgi.denpetersen.com/YAK1/viewtopic.php?t=526)

Well, that would be nice to have such an end-point in mind. But rather than commit to that as the goal, we'll just have to say "wait and see" and take each wave as it comes. We're focusing on the higher demand figures first.

---

I may be reading too far into things, but to me, this almost confirms that re-doing the entire vintage line in this format isn't gonna happen.  And the reason is that, if they're going for the "higher demand" figures first (read: main characters, army builders, and iconic aliens), then by the time they get all of those guys out of the way, they're gonna be left with all of the second- and third-tier vintage figures.  You know:  the Rancor Keepers, the secondary Ewoks, the Nien Nunbs.  Mostly all the garbage Jedi figures, basically.

Here's the entire vintage range:

Star Wars

     Luke Skywalker (2004 VOTC)
     Princess Leia Organa (2004 VOTC)
     Artoo-Detoo
     Chewbacca (2004 VOTC)
     See-Threepio (2004 VOTC)
     Darth Vader (2004 VOTC)
     Stormtrooper (2004 VOTC)
     Ben (Obi-Wan) Kenobi (2004 VOTC)
     Han Solo (2004 VOTC)
     Jawa (RUMORED 2007 VINTAGE)
     Sand People (2006 VTSC)
     Death Squad Commander
     Greedo (2006 VTSC)
     Hammerhead (2006 Saga)
     Snaggletooth
     Walrus Man
     Luke Skywalker: X-Wing Pilot (2006 VTSC)
     R5-D4 (2006 Saga)
     Death Star Droid
     Power Droid
     Boba Fett (2004 VOTC)

The Empire Strikes Back

     Leia Organa (Bespin Gown) (2004 OTC)
     FX-7
     Imperial Stormtrooper (Hoth Battle Gear) (RUMORED 2007 VINTAGE)
     Rebel Soldier (Hoth Battle Gear)
     Bossk (RUMORED 2007 VINTAGE)
     IG-88
     Luke Skywalker (Bespin Fatigues) (RUMORED 2007 VINTAGE)
     Han Solo (Hoth Outfit)
     Lando Calrissian (2004 VOTC)
     Bespin Security Guard
     Yoda (2004 VOTC)
     Ugnaught
     Dengar (2004 Saga)
     Han Solo (Bespin Outfit) (RUMORED 2007 VINTAGE)
     Lobot (2004 OTC)
     Princess Leia Organa (Hoth Outfit)
     Rebel Commander
     AT-AT Driver (2006 Saga)
     Imperial Commander
     2-1B
     Artoo-Detoo (with Sensorscope) (2004 VOTC)
     See-Threepio (with removable limbs)
     Luke Skywalker (Hoth Battle Gear) (2004 Saga)
     AT-AT Commander
     (Twin-Pod) Cloud Car Pilot (2004 OTC)
     Bespin Security Guard (black)
     Imperial TIE Fighter Pilot (2004 Saga)
     Zuckuss (4-LOM)
     4-LOM (Zuckuss)

Return of the Jedi

     Admiral Ackbar
     Luke Skywalker (Jedi Knight Outfit) (RUMORED 2007 30AC)
     Princess Leia Organa (Boushh Disguise) (2006 Saga)
     Gamorrean Guard
     Emperor's Royal Guard
     Chief Chirpa (2006 Saga)
     Logray (Ewok Medicine Man)
     Klaatu
     Rebel Commando (2006 Saga)
     Weequay
     Squid Head
     General Madine (2004 Saga)
     Bib Fortuna (2006 Saga)
     Ree-Yees
     Biker Scout (2006 VTSC)
     Lando Calrissian (Skiff Guard Disguise) (2004 Saga)
     Nien Nunb
     Nikto
     8D8
     Princess Leia Organa (in Combat Poncho) (RUMORED 2007 VINTAGE)
     Wicket W. Warrick
     The Emperor
     B-Wing Pilot
     Klaatu (in Skiff Guard Outfit)
     Han Solo (in Trench Coat) (2006 VTSC)
     Teebo
     Prune Face
     AT-ST Driver
     Rancor Keeper
     Lumat
     Paploo

The Power of the Force

     Artoo-Detoo with pop-up Lightsaber
     Luke Skywalker (in Battle Poncho) (2006 Saga)
     Romba
     Amanaman
     Barada
     Imperial Gunner (2006 Saga)
     Han Solo (in Carbonite Chamber) (2006 Saga)
     Luke Skywalker (Imperial Stormtrooper Outfit) (RUMORED MARVEL 2-PACK)
     Anakin Skywalker
     EV-9D9
     Warok
     Lando Calrissian (General Pilot) (2004 Saga)
     A-Wing Pilot (RUMORED 2007 30AC)
     Imperial Dignitary
     Yak Face
Title: Re: Let's discuss the future of the retro-vintage line.
Post by: Matt on August 5, 2006, 02:34 PM
And here’s what they’ve realistically got left, after tossing out what’s been done recently and what’s rumored for next year:

Star Wars

     Artoo-Detoo
     Death Squad Commander
     Snaggletooth
     Walrus Man
     Death Star Droid
     Power Droid

The Empire Strikes Back

     FX-7
     Rebel Soldier (Hoth Battle Gear)
     IG-88
     Han Solo (Hoth Outfit)
     Bespin Security Guard
     Ugnaught
     Princess Leia Organa (Hoth Outfit)
     Rebel Commander
     Imperial Commander
     2-1B
     See-Threepio (with removable limbs)
     AT-AT Commander
     Bespin Security Guard (black)
     Zuckuss (4-LOM)
     4-LOM (Zuckuss)

Return of the Jedi

     Admiral Ackbar
     Gamorrean Guard
     Emperor's Royal Guard
     Logray (Ewok Medicine Man)
     Klaatu
     Weequay
     Squid Head
     Ree-Yees
     Nien Nunb
     Nikto
     8D8
     Wicket W. Warrick
     The Emperor
     B-Wing Pilot
     Klaatu (in Skiff Guard Outfit)
     Teebo
     Prune Face
     AT-ST Driver
     Rancor Keeper
     Lumat
     Paploo

The Power of the Force

     Artoo-Detoo with pop-up Lightsaber
     Romba
     Amanaman
     Barada
     Anakin Skywalker
     EV-9D9
     Warok
     Imperial Dignitary
     Yak Face


Random thoughts:

*There's a lot of crap in there that a lot of folks probably wouldn't be too keen on paying $10+ for

*There's a few figures in there, that, while not having been done in the last year or two, were done so well originally that there's not a whole lot that can be improved on with them.  I'm thinking specifically of FX-7, the 2004 TIE Fighter Pilot, and Amanaman here, although there are probably a few others, too

*And there's a few figures, although being done recently, could probably stand for the vintage treatment.  Luke Hoth and the Skiff Guard and General Landos would probably be good candidates

*Hasbro has repeatedly stated in the Q & A's that they have no plans for doing POTF-style vintage cards, and it's been thought by some that the coins may be the reason for that.  But with the coins returning in the basic line next year, I have to wonder if that may open up the possibility for some POTF-style vintage releases

*The only way that I can see the vintage line being completed is if they start to (gulp) repack some of the main characters back into the line, and start to thin things out a little.  A fantastic way to do that would be to start using some of the original logo or alternate-photo cardbacks:

Luke (gunner picture/ROTJ logo)
Artoo (original and bunker-blasted pictures)
Chewie (original picture/SW logo)
Darth Vader (SW logo and new picture/ROTJ logo)
Ben Kenobi (new picture/ROTJ logo)
Han Solo (new picture/ROTJ logo)
Boba Fett (SW logo and new picture/ROTJ logo)
Yoda (new picture/ROTJ logo)
Stormtrooper (SW logo)
Threepio (SW logo)
Title: Re: Let's discuss the future of the retro-vintage line.
Post by: Artoo on August 5, 2006, 03:09 PM
After all of the main characters & AB the line will fall. :'( So after this wave they should put one warmer vintage figure in each wave.
Title: Re: Let's discuss the future of the retro-vintage line.
Post by: Ben on August 5, 2006, 04:37 PM
I liked the idea of VOTC back in 2004, and was willing to pay the $10 price to get them.

While I liked the 2006 Saga series, this idea really need go no further. Sure, a few more characters wouldn't be a bad thing, but if they start putting stuff like Ewoks and Nikto on these cards, it'll be time to hang it up. The Jawa is slightly insulting, especially if only one is in the package.

Just release the figures on the basic cards for $7 instead of $12 fancy packaging. I like seeing the vintage cards, but I don't think it's so much worth $5 extra. And I hope they quit sticking in-demand army builders in these waves. I'd love to have more Biker Scouts and Stormtroopers, but it's too expensive. They COULD repack those instead of camo Battle Droids, but I can wish in one hand and crap in the other and see which gets filled first.
Title: Re: Let's discuss the future of the retro-vintage line.
Post by: Rob on August 5, 2006, 06:24 PM
Given the unbearable junk they showed at Comic Con - I'd gladly pay 12$ for more VOTC figures - as many as they can crank out over the next 5 to 10 years.
Title: Re: Let's discuss the future of the retro-vintage line.
Post by: Dressel Rebel on August 5, 2006, 08:11 PM
Given the unbearable junk they showed at Comic Con - I'd gladly pay 12$ for more VOTC figures - as many as they can crank out over the next 5 to 10 years.

Amen.  I see that first wave of 8 figures up for pre-order at EE, and I don't even want them.

(http://www.jedidefender.com/news/images/8-06/sagawave8.jpg)
Title: Re: Let's discuss the future of the retro-vintage line.
Post by: Rob on August 5, 2006, 08:14 PM
I'm interested in the droid and the movie-accurate green clone (even though I have about 5 of them...).  Other than that, it's all junk.
Title: Re: Let's discuss the future of the retro-vintage line.
Post by: Artoo on August 6, 2006, 12:40 AM
I personally think SA versions of the 2 Landos & Hoth Luke are needed.
Title: Re: Let's discuss the future of the retro-vintage line.
Post by: Roton7 on August 6, 2006, 12:45 AM
Given the unbearable junk they showed at Comic Con

I'm starting to agree with people like you. When I first saw all this prequel "Final 22" stuff, I thought about how awesome it is, and how they're some of the best figure ever. Now I'm starting to gag when I see them. I've decided to only buy the BARC troopers and the camo clones, simply because I can't seem to resist camouflage.
Title: Re: Let's discuss the future of the retro-vintage line.
Post by: Jeff on August 6, 2006, 01:20 AM
*There's a lot of crap in there that a lot of folks probably wouldn't be too keen on paying $10+ for

Yeah, there are really only a few VOTC/VTSC figures they could do at this point that I really want them to do. 

Don't get me wrong, I'll buy them all if they make them, but my life will go on just fine without SA VOTC Rancor Keeper or SA Pruneface.   :P

I'd really, really like to see them get to the ones below.  The rest = meh.

Star Wars
     Death Squad Commander
     Walrus Man
     Death Star Droid (silver, not black)

The Empire Strikes Back
     Rebel Soldier (Hoth)
     Han Solo (Hoth)
     Princess Leia Organa (Hoth)
     Rebel Commander
     Imperial Commander (Black Uniform)
     Bespin Security Guard (Black)
     Zuckuss
     4-LOM

Return of the Jedi
     Gamorrean Guard
     Emperor's Royal Guard
     Klaatu (Jabba's Palace)
     Weequay
     Nikto
     The Emperor
     B-Wing Pilot
     AT-ST Driver

The Power of the Force
     Artoo-Detoo with pop-up Lightsaber
     Luke Skywalker (Stormtrooper) - I'm not counting the Marvel POS version.   >:(
Title: Re: Let's discuss the future of the retro-vintage line.
Post by: Artoo on August 6, 2006, 01:46 AM
Star Wars:
Death Star Commander
Walrus Man
Death Star Droid
Gonk Droid (Re-paint)

ESB:
Hoth Han Solo
Hoth Luke Skywalker
4-LOM
IG-88
Zuckuss
Dengar
Boba Fett (VOTC '04 re-paint)
Hoth Leia
Rebel Soldier
Bespin Security (Both races)

ROTJ:
Emperer Palpatine
Palpatine's Royal Guard
Gamorrean Guard
 Nien Numb
B-Wing Pilot (Variations)
Admiral Ackbar
AT-ST Driver
Lando Calrissian (Skiff)

POTF:
Stormtrooper Luke (Unless the Marvel is SA then I'll re-paint)
R2-D2 (Pop-Out Saber)
General Lando

I want more Ewoks but they should be 2-Packs.
I also want all of next year's rumored line-up.
Title: Re: Let's discuss the future of the retro-vintage line.
Post by: Nicklab on August 6, 2006, 02:03 AM
Having grown up with the line from it's inception and having the perspective on it that I have now, there are definitely some things I'd like to see in this line.

The 12 Back Figures.  The 12 back figures were the iconic first releases of the line.  With that in mind, I'd really like to see Hasbro address these.  So far we've got the following:
-Luke Skywalker
-Princess Leia
-Han Solo
-Chewbacca
-C-3PO
-R2-D2
-Obi-Wan Kenobi
-Darth Vader
-Stormtrooper
-Tusken Raider

So that only leaves the Death Squad Commander and the Jawa from the original 12 backs, right?  Basically I'd like to see those two as soon as possible.

I guess if we were to be real sticklers about it, we have gotten a number of these figures on other cards (Vader on TESB, Stormtrooper on ROTJ).  And there might be some costume differences on Vader.  But I think that's only something you'd address if you were REALLY obsessed with the concept.

Now beyond that?  The 20 back card is a good place to start.  We've gotten 2 of the figures that were first introduced on the 20 back card in this format.  I think it might be cool to touch on the rest of the 20 back figures in the near future, but not absolutely necessary.

As for the rest?  I agree, core characters and army builders are a good direction to go in.  There's definitely some fodder in that respect for this line in The Empire Strikes Back.  But I'd also go so far as to do the Bounty Hunters.  I think they're interesting enough characters to get some consideration.

As for other characters?  How about the mail-away figures from the vintage line?  I remember a fair ammount of enthusiasm about the mailaways at the time.  The ones I can remember?  Boba Fett, Bossk, 4-LOM (actually Zuckuss), Nien Numb, the Emporer, Admiral Ackbar, etc.  Go in this kind of direction and I think the vintage style line can have some legs.
Title: Re: Let's discuss the future of the retro-vintage line.
Post by: Matt on August 6, 2006, 03:39 AM
Jeff and "Artoo," our want lists are fairly similar:

Star Wars: 

Death Squad Commander
Walrus Man

Empire:

Han Hoth
Leia Hoth
Luke Hoth
IG-88
Zuckuss
4-LOM
Dengar

Jedi:

Weequay
Klaatu
Emperor's Royal Guard (how can the ROTS version be improved upon?  Besides a new weapon.)
Gamorrean Guard
Admiral Ackbar
The Emperor
Lando Skiff
Luke Jedi

POTF:

Barada
Anakin
Yak Face
Lando General
Luke Stormtrooper (if the Marvel version turns out to be balls as I suspect it will)
Artoo saber (only if they can recreate the bunker-blasted look somehow)

I guess I'd go for almost everything except for the Ewoks and the non-helmeted army-builders (never floated my boat).

The 20 back card is a good place to start.  We've gotten 2 of the figures that were first introduced on the 20 back card in this format.  I think it might be cool to touch on the rest of the 20 back figures in the near future, but not absolutely necessary.

Out of the 20/21 backs that are left:

Hammerhead
Snaggletooth
Walrus Man
R5-D4
Death Star Droid
Power Droid

I'd be down for a new Walrus Man--he could use a re-visiting.  Two of those were just done in Saga, and there might not be a whole lot left to improve on with them.  Snag, DSD and Gonk would be a hard sell for me at this point.  What can be done with them to give them added-value?

Quote
How about the mail-away figures from the vintage line?  I remember a fair ammount of enthusiasm about the mailaways at the time.  The ones I can remember?  Boba Fett, Bossk, 4-LOM (actually Zuckuss), Nien Numb, the Emporer, Admiral Ackbar, etc.  Go in this kind of direction and I think the vintage style line can have some legs.

You mean to make the next mail-away promotions be for actual vintage mail-away characters, and not just bull**** characters like Georgetrooper?  Yeah, that I could get behind.  It'd be a nice nod to the vintage line.  Someone not too long ago suggested having a mail-away for a "secret action figure," just like the old days.  I totally love that idea--but the secret wouldn't last too long, in this day and age.

The Jawa is slightly insulting, especially if only one is in the package.

I think there's some things they can do with the Jawa to really "make it worth it."  Kinda like what they did with the VOTC Yoda.  Separate legs is a biggie (they still haven't done a two-legged Jawa in the modern range, have they?).  A cloth cape is a must, and as a really-cool callback, they could include a vinyl-cape, too.  Super-articulation is a must (as much is possible on that small a figure, anyway), and as many accessories as possible.  I also wouldn't mind seeing a new "light-up eyes" feature (like a press-button deal), but some people don't care for that sort of thing.

Quote
Just release the figures on the basic cards for $7 instead of $12 fancy packaging.

Ideally, yeah.  They've proved that they can do VOTC-style articulation and accessories in the basic line (now whether they choose to or not is another matter entirely).  But, since the retro-vintage line seems to be pretty popular and isn't going away anytime soon, we might as well talk about what we'd like to see for it, yeah?
Title: Re: Let's discuss the future of the retro-vintage line.
Post by: Darth_Anton on August 6, 2006, 11:43 AM
While I love the idea of re-making every vintage figure as a VOTC/VTSC or whatever, I don't loose any sleep over whether or not we'll get all. I certainly think we'll get many of the cool important characters, and I think Hasbro will certainly make sure an army builder will go into every wave.
Title: Re: Let's discuss the future of the retro-vintage line.
Post by: DoctorPadawan on August 6, 2006, 11:56 AM
I honestly think that they should stick with the main characters and army builders for the Vintage lines.  A lot of the vintage figures have been updated fairly well in the regular action figure line (Hammerhead, Power Droid, R2-D2 sans gadgetry, Cloud Car Pilot, etc), and some of them would be a little too esoteric (read: retail suicide) to make as a 10 dollar figure assortment (the Rancor Keeper being the most blatant of these).  That being said, here's what I would like to see from the vintage line in a 16 figure line (four for each film/collection, excluding next year's rumored figures):

STAR WARS:
-Death Squad Commander
-Death Star Droid
-Snaggletooth
-Walrus Man

THE EMPIRE STRIKES BACK:
-Hoth Han Solo
-Hoth Luke Skywalker
-Hoth Rebel Soldier
-IG-88

RETURN OF THE JEDI:
-Gammorean Guard
-Squid Head
-Luke Skywalker (Jedi Knight)
-Princess Leia (Endor Poncho)

POWER OF THE FORCE:
-Yak Face
-Anakin Skywalker
-Imperial Dignitary
-Lando Calrissian (Rebel General)
Title: Re: Let's discuss the future of the retro-vintage line.
Post by: Darth Broem on August 6, 2006, 12:24 PM
I really like the vintage figures and cardbacks.  However, I'm not to excited anymore about wasting $10-12 on them.
Title: Re: Let's discuss the future of the retro-vintage line.
Post by: Nicklab on August 6, 2006, 12:56 PM

The 20 back card is a good place to start.  We've gotten 2 of the figures that were first introduced on the 20 back card in this format.  I think it might be cool to touch on the rest of the 20 back figures in the near future, but not absolutely necessary.

Out of the 20/21 backs that are left:

Hammerhead
Snaggletooth
Walrus Man
R5-D4
Death Star Droid
Power Droid

I'd be down for a new Walrus Man--he could use a re-visiting.  Two of those were just done in Saga, and there might not be a whole lot left to improve on with them.  Snag, DSD and Gonk would be a hard sell for me at this point.  What can be done with them to give them added-value?

It does get tough after a while.  Regarding the two that were just made in the Saga line, move those later in the release schedule and see what can be done.  Possibly knee articulation and ball jointed shoulders for Hammerhead?  As for R5-D4, go with the R4-G9 body with the retractable center leg and more accurate paint apps.

Snaggletooth might be tough since we actually got a decent version of him in the POTJ line and that figure just didn't sell well.  The Gonk is kind of tough too.  What do you do with it?  Especially in order to get people on board with the higher price point?  The only things that come to mind are a better paint job and a new form of leg articulation.  I think a decent Death Star Droid is a possibility.  The quality of protocol droid sculpts has really improved, and I think that could be translated to this droid.



How about the mail-away figures from the vintage line?  I remember a fair ammount of enthusiasm about the mailaways at the time.  The ones I can remember?  Boba Fett, Bossk, 4-LOM (actually Zuckuss), Nien Numb, the Emporer, Admiral Ackbar, etc.  Go in this kind of direction and I think the vintage style line can have some legs.

You mean to make the next mail-away promotions be for actual vintage mail-away characters, and not just ******** characters like Georgetrooper?  Yeah, that I could get behind.  It'd be a nice nod to the vintage line.  Someone not too long ago suggested having a mail-away for a "secret action figure," just like the old days.  I totally love that idea--but the secret wouldn't last too long, in this day and age.

I don't know if it would be good to make these figures mail-aways.  I think it would definitely harken back to those days of mailing your POP's off to Maple Plain, MN, but I think I'd want to see the figures ship on the vintage style card the way the George Trooper does, inside the white mailer box.  First and foremost, I thought they were cool character choices.
Title: Re: Let's discuss the future of the retro-vintage line.
Post by: Ben on August 6, 2006, 03:32 PM
They've proved that they can do VOTC-style articulation and accessories in the basic line (now whether they choose to or not is another matter entirely).  But, since the retro-vintage line seems to be pretty popular and isn't going away anytime soon, we might as well talk about what we'd like to see for it, yeah?

I suppose. Not that you're ever going to get it, or if you do, you're going to complain about it being not up to standards.
Title: Re: Let's discuss the future of the retro-vintage line.
Post by: Scott on August 6, 2006, 04:05 PM
Here's what I said a few months ago (http://www.jedidefender.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=12069.msg220443#msg220443)

Star Wars
Artoo-Detoo (R2-D2) 2004 VOTC
Chewbacca 2004 VOTC
Luke Skywalker 2004 VOTC
Princess Leia Organa 2004 VOTC 
Ben (Obi-Wan) Kenobi 2004 VOTC
Darth Vader 2004 VOTC
Han Solo 2004 VOTC
See-Threepio (C-3PO) 2004 VOTC
Stormtrooper / Imperial Stormtrooper    2004 VOTC
Death Squad Commander / Star Destroyer Commander
Jawa Rumored Wave 2006
Sand People / Sandpeople / Tusken Raider (Sand People) 2006 VTSC
Greedo 2006 VTSC
Hammerhead 2006 Standard TSC
Snaggletooth
Walrus Man 
Arfive-Defour (R5-D4)   2006 Standard TSC
Death Star Droid
Luke Skywalker (X-Wing Pilot) / Luke Skywalker (X-Wing Fighter Pilot) 2006 VTSC
Power Droid
Boba Fett
 
THE EMPIRE STRIKES BACK
Bossk (Bounty Hunter) 2003 SAGA
Bespin Security Guard (I)
FX-7 (Medical Droid) POTJ Version
Han Solo (Hoth Outfit) / Han Solo (Hoth Battle Gear)
IG-88 (Bounty Hunter)   POTJ Version
Imperial Stormtrooper (Hoth Battle Gear) Rumored 2006 VSTC
Lando Calrissian 2004 VOTC
Luke Skywalker (Bespin Fatigues) Rumored 2006 VSTC
Leia Organa (Bespin Gown) / Princess Leia Organa (Bespin Gown) 2004 OTC
Rebel Soldier (Hoth Battle Gear) 
Yoda / Yoda The Jedi Master 2004 VOTC
Dengar 2003 SAGA
Han Solo (Bespin Outfit) / Han Solo (Cloud City Outfit)
Lobot / Lobot (Lando's Aid)   2004 OTC
Ugnaught 
AT-AT Driver 2006 Standard TSC
Leia / Leia Organa / Princess Leia Organa (Hoth Outfit)
Imperial Commander
Rebel Commander
2-1B/ Two-Onebee (2-1B)/ Too-Onebee (2-1B) 
AT-AT Commander/ General Veers 2006 Standard TSC
Luke Skywalker (Hoth Battle Gear) / Luke Skywalker (Hoth Outfit)
Artoo-Detoo (R2-D2) (With Sensorscope) / R2-D2 (With Periscope) 2006 Standard TSC 
Bespin Security Guard (II)
Cloud Car Pilot / (Twin Pod) Cloud Car Pilot 2004 OTC 
4-LOM
See-Threepio (C-3PO) With Removable limbs
Imperial TIE Fighter Pilot 2003 SAGA
Zuckuss
 
RETURN OF THE JEDI
Admiral Ackbar
Lando Calrissian (Skiff Guard Disguise) 2003 SAGA
Nien Nunb
Bib Fortuna 2006 Standard TSC 
Biker Scout 2006 VTSC
Chief Chirpa 2006 Standard TSC 
Emperor's Royal Guard EpIII Release
Gamorrean Guard
General Madine 2004 OTC
Klaatu
Logray (Ewok Medicine Man)
Luke Skywalker (Jedi Knight Outfit) SAGA 2003
Princess Leia Organa (Boushh Disguise) / Boushh 2006 Standard TSC 
Rebel Commando
Ree-Yees
Squid Head
Weequay 
8D8
Klaatu (In Skiff Guard Outfit) / Klaatu (Skiff Guard Outfit)
Nikto
The Emperor Sith Evolutions/EpIII 
AT-ST Driver
B-Wing Pilot
Han Solo (In Trench Coat) 2006 VTSC
Princess Leia Organa (In Combat Poncho) Rumored 2006 VTSC
Pruneface
Rancor Keeper POTF2 Version
Teebo
Wicket W. Warrick
Lumat
Paploo
 
POWER OF THE FORCE
Artoo-Detoo (R2-D2) With Pop Up Lightsaber 
A-Wing Pilot
Han Solo (In Carbonite Chamber)   2006 Standard TSC
Imperial Dignitary
Imperial Gunner 2006 Standard TSC 
Luke Skywalker (Imperial Stormtrooper Outfit) 
Anakin Skywalker 
Amanaman POTJ Version
Barada
EV-9D9 
Lando Calrissian (General Pilot) 2003 SAGA Version
Luke Skywalker (In Battle Poncho) 
Romba
Warok 
Yak Face
 
Trying to keep things separate...IMHO here's who could possibly be left

The reason I left Boba in is that I could see a rerelease in ESB paint scheme instead of the ROTJ version

Star Wars
Death Squad Commander / Star Destroyer Commander
Snaggletooth
Walrus Man 
Death Star Droid
Power Droid
Boba Fett
 
THE EMPIRE STRIKES BACK
Bespin Security Guard (I)
Han Solo (Hoth Outfit) / Han Solo (Hoth Battle Gear)
Rebel Soldier (Hoth Battle Gear) 
Han Solo (Bespin Outfit) / Han Solo (Cloud City Outfit)
Ugnaught 
Leia / Leia Organa / Princess Leia Organa (Hoth Outfit)
Imperial Commander
Rebel Commander
2-1B/ Two-Onebee (2-1B)/ Too-Onebee (2-1B) 
Luke Skywalker (Hoth Battle Gear) / Luke Skywalker (Hoth Outfit)
Bespin Security Guard (II)
4-LOM
See-Threepio (C-3PO) With Removable limbs
Zuckuss
 
RETURN OF THE JEDI
Admiral Ackbar
Nien Nunb
Gamorrean Guard
Klaatu
Logray (Ewok Medicine Man)
Rebel Commando
Ree-Yees
Squid Head
Weequay 
8D8
Klaatu (In Skiff Guard Outfit) / Klaatu (Skiff Guard Outfit)
Nikto
AT-ST Driver
B-Wing Pilot
Pruneface
Teebo
Wicket W. Warrick
Lumat
Paploo
 
POWER OF THE FORCE
Artoo-Detoo (R2-D2) With Pop Up Lightsaber 
A-Wing Pilot
Imperial Dignitary
Luke Skywalker (Imperial Stormtrooper Outfit) 
Anakin Skywalker 
Barada
EV-9D9 
Luke Skywalker (In Battle Poncho) 
Romba
Warok 
Yak Face
 
Of these...I'd could possibly see 3 more waves of figures, of which I hope include:

Wave 6

Death Squad Commander
Walrus Man
Han Solo (Bespin Outfit)
Admiral Ackbar
Luke Skywalker (Imperial Stormtrooper)

Wave 7
Han Solo (Hoth Outfit)
Luke Skywalker (In Battle Poncho)
Princess Leia (Hoth Outfit)
Wicket W. Warrick
Boba Fett (ESB Deco)

Wave 8
Anakin Skywalker (Hayden Head)
Artoo-Detoo (R2-D2) With Pop Up Lightsaber 
Snaggletooth or Power Droid
Gamorrean Guard
Luke Skywalker (Hoth)

Beyond these, its a lot of Jabba's aliens that probably won't sell and would be better served as being resculpts in the Saga line
 
Title: Re: Let's discuss the future of the retro-vintage line.
Post by: Matt on August 6, 2006, 05:11 PM
They've proved that they can do VOTC-style articulation and accessories in the basic line (now whether they choose to or not is another matter entirely).  But, since the retro-vintage line seems to be pretty popular and isn't going away anytime soon, we might as well talk about what we'd like to see for it, yeah?

I suppose. Not that you're ever going to get it, or if you do, you're going to complain about it being not up to standards.

What the **** is that supposed to mean?
Title: Re: Let's discuss the future of the retro-vintage line.
Post by: Brian on August 7, 2006, 10:40 AM
The whole price issue aside, I really like the VOTC/VTSC series of figures.  Most to all of them have really been top notch, and this latest wave - although it hasn't seemed to generate the same excitement as the initial ones - were really all good figures (no 3PO stinkers really like the initial VOTC).  I like the lists that Jeff, Matthew and Scott have listed here, and I'd agree with those.  If nothing else, I'd like to see all the versions of the main characters and army builders get this treatment, and maybe save some of the other resculpts/updates of lesser/minor characters in the regular basic line.  Like others have mentioned, I'm afraid that things like a $10-$12 SA Rancor Keeper would be retail death.  Plus, if Hasbro is stating they are focusing on the "big guns" basically in future assortments, it isn't real likely they have intentions of taking the line all the way through.  Assortments consisting of no main characters or army builders, and just something like Ackbar, Rancor Keeper, Lumat, Ugnaught and 8D8 probably wouldn't be flying off the pegs for $10.

The price has always been an issue for all of us, and the only way I think it would work is if they really went all out with each release (similar to what Sideshow is doing with the 12" line).  Of course, this would probably be if it went to an online only line, after disappearing from retail (if/when that happens).  A more limited release schedule and top of the line figures would allow people to keep up better.

Some of the figures that have come out recently probably don't need the "vintage" treatment, aside from some articulation differences in some cases.  I'm happy with R5-D4, Amanaman, Bossk, Boussh Leia, and the others Scott listed/crossed off on his list.  I hope the wave rumored for next year turns out to be true, because that would cover some nice figures I'd like to see.

Han Solo - Bespin, Hoth
Luke Skywalker - Stormtrooper, Bespin, Hoth, Endor, Jedi
Princess Leia - Hoth
Lando Calrissian - Skiff/General aren't bad, could maybe be improved in articulation a bit
Rebel Troops - Hoth, Endor/Rebel Commando
Imperial Troops - Snowtrooper, Death Squad Commander, etc.

There are a few others that could work in this line, but maybe not the entire thing - at least not in the way Hasbro is pricing/releasing them.  Scott's three waves look good to me, especially considering next year's rumored lineup.  That would probably cover things pretty well.
Title: Re: Let's discuss the future of the retro-vintage line.
Post by: Matt R. on August 8, 2006, 12:04 AM
Hasbro will NEVER do all the figures of the Vintage Era.  They would never do figures on retro-vintage like Walrus Man, he would NEVER sale.

after wave 3 is made (hopefully).

I want the following to be the next Vintage Retro Figures

WAVE 4

Death Star Squad Commander - ANH
Princess Leia - Hoth Outfit - ESB
Luke Skywalker - Jedi Knight - ROTJ
IG-88 - ESB
The Emperor - ROTJ

WAVE 5

Han Solo - Hoth Outfit - ESB
4-LOM - ESB
AT-ST Walker Driver - ROTJ
Luke Skywalker - Hoth Outfit - ESB
Death Star Droid - ANH

They Probably will finish off the main Characters in 2 more waves, they will probably repack/kitbash some past VOTC - VTSC to sell better like the following

Chewbacca - on ANH Card - (EB repack)
Boba Fett - on ESB Card - (VOTC repack w/ ESB Colors)
C-3PO - on ANH Card - (TSC Ewok Deity repack)
Darth Vader - on ROTJ Card - (Evolutions repack)
Stormtrooper - on ANH Card - (VOTC repack)
R2-D2 - on ANH Card - (VOTC repack)
 



Title: Re: Let's discuss the future of the retro-vintage line.
Post by: Matt on August 8, 2006, 09:25 AM
What the **** is that supposed to mean?

Nice reply, Ben.  Muchas gracias. (http://cipher.addf.net/forums/html/emoticons/jackoff.gif)

The Gonk is kind of tough too.  What do you do with it?  Especially in order to get people on board with the higher price point?  The only things that come to mind are a better paint job and a new form of leg articulation.

Those were my thoughts, too.  Fix the legs, give it a more vintage-esque paint job, and that'd be cool.  I think a "gonk" sound chip would be neat, too.  Other than that, there really isn't much else that can be done with it.

Quote
I think a decent Death Star Droid is a possibility.  The quality of protocol droid sculpts has really improved, and I think that could be translated to this droid.

It would have to be done Titanium-style (to retain the shininess) and as well-articulated as possible for it to be worth the extra dough for me.  I don't know if I'd like to see it in the vintage line, but I'd definitely like to see a new one.  Same with Gonk.

They would never do figures on retro-vintage like Walrus Man, he would NEVER sale.

If they can do Greedo in this format, then ol' Buttface certainly has a shot.

It's time for a new Walrus Man, vintage line or no.  They've basically been using the same sculpt, slightly modified, for nine years, and there's a lot they could do with an all-new version.  Super-articulation, detachable arm, and something else that would be really swell:  two sets of hands--one normal, and one "finned."
Title: Re: Let's discuss the future of the retro-vintage line.
Post by: Artoo on August 8, 2006, 09:10 PM
I'd like to see the Stormie on different cards just to build it.
Title: Re: Let's discuss the future of the retro-vintage line.
Post by: Rob on August 10, 2006, 02:36 AM
I'm with what Matt got at earlier...

In order for Hasbro to do all of the figures, eventually waves will have to be released with repacked VOTC/VTSC figures too.

Which doesn't bother me at all.

All 96 in this style running next to a vintage carded collection would be a beautiful sight.
Title: Re: Let's discuss the future of the retro-vintage line.
Post by: ruiner on August 10, 2006, 09:31 AM
96 VOTC next to a 'true' vintage carded run?  Personally, I'd rather have one or the other.  The two next to each other might be overkill, no?

Title: Re: Let's discuss the future of the retro-vintage line.
Post by: Rob on August 10, 2006, 02:51 PM
It'd take a big wall, but it'd be pretty.
Title: Re: Let's discuss the future of the retro-vintage line.
Post by: Desfiy on August 11, 2006, 12:17 AM
Here's what I said a few months ago (http://www.jedidefender.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=12069.msg220443#msg220443)

[snip]

Beyond these, its a lot of Jabba's aliens that probably won't sell and would be better served as being resculpts in the Saga line

I would agree with everything you said apart from one thing.

When did Hayden get into the vintage line, dont you mean Shaw, seeing this was the original Anakin Skywalker, and was even made in the POTF2 line as Anakin as well. Its just since all this prequel crap came out that Hayden was put in to replace Shaw, which IMHO was totally wrong.
Title: Re: Let's discuss the future of the retro-vintage line.
Post by: Matt on August 11, 2006, 02:12 AM
(gigantic unnecessary list deleted)

I would agree with everything you said apart from one thing.

When did Hayden get into the vintage line, dont you mean Shaw, seeing this was the original Anakin Skywalker, and was even made in the POTF2 line as Anakin as well. Its just since all this prequel crap came out that Hayden was put in to replace Shaw, which IMHO was totally wrong.

Good God, man--learn to cut some of that **** outta there.  Selective editing is a good thing.

Good point on the Anakin, though--how do you release a Hayden Anakin on a vintage-style card, featuring a big-ass airbrushed photo of Sebastian's face?
Title: Re: Let's discuss the future of the retro-vintage line.
Post by: Daigo-Bah on August 11, 2006, 10:22 AM
Quote
Good point on the Anakin, though--how do you release a Hayden Anakin on a vintage-style card, featuring a big-ass airbrushed photo of Sebastian's face?

Umm, you don't, because that isn't the "real" ROTJ Anakin :P.  Some of the Comic-con product Hasbro revealed already blends the 2 trilogies way more than I like, to "retcon" the original films is heresy in my book!

While I wouldn't mind the whole line of vintage styled figures, I agree that they probably won't do it, and frankly it's not very necessary when you have regular carded figures like the DS Gunner, Chirpa, and AT-AT Driver among others.  I don't think a Gonk or even a DS Droid is necessary, but I'd say one of my top 5 would be a new Walrusman.  Here's the thing, though: why hasn't Hasbro figured out that characters that are less popular should be slightly short-packed and there won't be a problem?  I realize with Greedo they thought they would need equal numbers to satisfy the mail-in POP issue, but look at which figure is pegwarming anyway.  It's not rocket science: obscure aliens and rebel officers sell less than soldiers and Imperials.  Luke sells more than Han who sells more than Lando, etc, etc!

Edit: I forgot to mention that I don't think Ewoks should be released in this format, ever.  Don't get me wrong, I LOVE Ewoks- I want every one released- but the amount of articulation possible on these is low and is done to great effect on the recent Chirpa.  Not to mention there is just too little plastic to sell one for 10-12 dollars.  A new Wicket is needed, but he would have to be smaller than even the POTF2 version which came as a 2-pack for 5 bucks.
Title: VOTC '07
Post by: Artoo on September 23, 2006, 03:55 PM
Who would you like to see? There's no Jawa, so the Scum report is fualty. I'd like to see all of Scum's report figures + Walrus Man & IG-88.
Title: Re: VOTC '07
Post by: Rune Haako on September 23, 2006, 04:35 PM
Snowtrooper
TIE Fighter Pilot
Gamorrean Guard
2-1B
AT-ST Driver
Emperor Palpatine
Title: Re: Let's discuss the future of the retro-vintage line.
Post by: Artoo on September 23, 2006, 05:07 PM
Thanks who ever moved it, I was looking for a vintage style fourm.
Title: Re: VOTC '07
Post by: Reid on September 23, 2006, 06:52 PM

TIE Fighter Pilot


The OTC one was excellent, not in need of the VTSC treatment.
Title: Re: Let's discuss the future of the retro-vintage line.
Post by: Rune Haako on September 23, 2006, 06:59 PM
The sculpt is good, but it needs more articulation. :P
Title: Re: Let's discuss the future of the retro-vintage line.
Post by: Reid on September 23, 2006, 07:01 PM
It needs more articulation. :P

You're talking about the POTF2 one right? Cause the OTC one has near perfect articulation. Besides, he doesn't need to be super SA, all he needs to do is sit in a TIE Fighter. And the OTC one does that perfectly.
Title: Re: Let's discuss the future of the retro-vintage line.
Post by: Rune Haako on September 23, 2006, 07:03 PM
No I'm talking about the OTC one, he needs ball-jointed shoulders and neck at least.
Title: Re: Let's discuss the future of the retro-vintage line.
Post by: Roton7 on September 23, 2006, 11:01 PM
Jedi Luke
Endor Leia (why make Endor Luke and Endor Han without her?)
Snowtrooper
Gamorrean Guard
Palpatine
Royal Guard
Title: Re: Let's discuss the future of the retro-vintage line.
Post by: Artoo on September 24, 2006, 02:39 PM
No I'm talking about the OTC one, he needs ball-jointed shoulders and neck at least.
...& ankles. Yeah, the Saga1 figure was OK. But, I like SA on figures.
Title: Re: Let's discuss the future of the retro-vintage line.
Post by: Darth_Anton on September 24, 2006, 02:54 PM
No I'm talking about the OTC one, he needs ball-jointed shoulders and neck at least.
...& ankles. Yeah, the Saga1 figure was OK. But, I like SA on figures.

At the very least, angle cut elbows. Don't get me wrong, I like the OTC one alot, but it can be improved slightly. Plus, I'd image they could make ANH varient with the hose out of the side of his chest box.
Title: Re: Let's discuss the future of the retro-vintage line.
Post by: Artoo on September 24, 2006, 04:24 PM
There were no Tie Pilots for ANH in the vintage line. Only ESB & ROTJ, strange though.
Title: Re: Let's discuss the future of the retro-vintage line.
Post by: ruiner on October 2, 2006, 03:58 PM
According to GH, there might be a hiccup in next year's 'vintage' line - IG-88 might replace the Jawas.

Explain to me how IG-88 will be any different than his POTJ release. 

Knowing Hasbro, they will repackage said figure and charge us $12.99.

Title: Re: Let's discuss the future of the retro-vintage line.
Post by: Matt on October 2, 2006, 04:03 PM
Knowing Hasbro, they will repackage said figure and charge us $12.99.

Yep.  Just like they've done with all the other retro-vintage figures.
Title: Re: Let's discuss the future of the retro-vintage line.
Post by: ruiner on October 2, 2006, 04:32 PM
Well they've come close.  The 3PO was a horrible new mold and they did resell us the VTSC Biker Scout and VOTC stormtrooper as regular carded releases.

So yes, they technically have not re-released a regular release in the vintage line, but even though a figure is a new tool, doesn't necessarily mean it's better or worth the premium price.

Title: Re: Let's discuss the future of the retro-vintage line.
Post by: Jeff on October 2, 2006, 04:36 PM
Explain to me how IG-88 will be any different than his POTJ release.

- Die-Cast?
- ball jointed knees/shoulders?
- better waist joint

There are a bunch of possibilities as to how they could improve IG-88...
Title: Re: Let's discuss the future of the retro-vintage line.
Post by: Matt on October 2, 2006, 04:51 PM
Well they've come close.  The 3PO was a horrible new mold and they did resell us the VTSC Biker Scout and VOTC stormtrooper as regular carded releases.

Not close at all.  Regardless of whether they've been any good or not, and regardless of what they've done with the sculpts afterward, all of the retro-vintage sculpts were brand new at the time of their release.  (Although Endor Han did share some parts with the first Han, I do believe.)

Quote
So yes, they technically have not re-released a regular release in the vintage line, but even though a figure is a new tool, doesn't necessarily mean it's better or worth the premium price.

I agree with that, although it's a different argument. 

I'm sure that if the IG-88 rumor pans out, it will be quite a bit different than the previous Iggy figures.
Title: Re: Let's discuss the future of the retro-vintage line.
Post by: Darth Depressis on October 2, 2006, 05:43 PM
the o4 figures except: obi-wan,lando,& threepio ruled in my opinon, but i have only ever considered two of the 06 ones (tusken raider and scout trooper) and the pilot luke for custom fodder. but the price and the quality have me putting them back everytime.

i'm not holding my breath for next years, they should really just start making every figure like these ones, atleast ep3 figures where all mostly to this caliber, and from what i can tell the Kitbash Collection will be up there with these as well.....
Title: Re: Let's discuss the future of the retro-vintage line.
Post by: Scott on October 2, 2006, 09:48 PM
previous Iggy figures.
Making up our own nicknames now, I see ::)
Title: Re: Let's discuss the future of the retro-vintage line.
Post by: Matt on October 3, 2006, 10:18 AM
Making up our own nicknames now, I see ::)

That's the way all the cool people refer to him.  I'm not surprised you haven't heard of it before.
Title: Re: Let's discuss the future of the retro-vintage line.
Post by: Matt on October 4, 2006, 02:01 PM
*Hasbro has repeatedly stated in the Q & A's that they have no plans for doing POTF-style vintage cards, and it's been thought by some that the coins may be the reason for that.  But with the coins returning in the basic line next year, I have to wonder if that may open up the possibility for some POTF-style vintage releases

Thought I'd revisit this. . .  thought, given how all of the info is now out in the open about next year's coin pack-ins. 

Here's what Hasbro has had to say on the subject in past weeks:

Is Hasbro planning on releasing any vintage figures on the POTF cardback? (POTF2, 6/30/06) (http://www.potf2.com/potj/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=10342)

We don't have any plans to use POTF-style cardbacks for the Vintage line right now.

For the vintage-style figures...are there any plans to make them with a POTF card with a coin? (JTA, 6/30/06) (http://www.jeditemplearchives.com/content/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=2271)

We don't have any plans to use POTF-style cardbacks for the Vintage line right now.

Are there any plans to revisit the POTF cardbacks when issuing the new vintage line of figures? (YF, 6/23/06) (http://cgi.denpetersen.com/YAK1/viewtopic.php?t=312)

We don't have any plans to use POTF-style cardbacks for the Vintage line right now.

---------------------------------------------------

Okay, so back in June, they "had no plans" for POTF-style cardbacks in the retro-vintage line.  I get it.  But three months have passed, and the cat is out of the bag, as far as next year's coin pack-ins go.  So wouldn't that be a perfect time to do a run of POTF-style cards?  I mean, they're already manufacturing the coins anyway, and clearly there's interest in POTF-style cards, and it would be a great opportunity to get a little extra mileage out of the retro-vintage line. . .

So what do you guys think?  POTF-style vintage cards next year, or no?

Title: Re: Let's discuss the future of the retro-vintage line.
Post by: ruiner on October 4, 2006, 02:07 PM
Yes, it would make sense.

Obviously the vintage style figures won't include pack-ins (similar to the last two years).


Title: Re: Let's discuss the future of the retro-vintage line.
Post by: Matt on October 4, 2006, 03:11 PM
And just for reference, here's another list of everything that appeared on the POTF cardback:

POTF:

Artoo-Detoo (R2-D2) with pop-up lightsaber
Luke Skywalker (In Battle Poncho)
Romba
Amanaman
Barada
Imperial Gunner
Han Solo (In Carbonite Chamber)
Luke Skywalker (Imperial Stormtrooper Outfit)
Anakin Skywalker
EV-9D9
Warok
Lando Calrissian (General Pilot)
A-Wing Pilot
Imperial Dignitary
Yak Face

Really slim pickins there, especially after this year.  We just got Luke Poncho and the Imperial Gunner, so they're out.  And we got Han Carbo and "Barada" earlier this year, so they're probably out, too (although I think Barada deserves a re-do).  Luke Stormtrooper is coming in the Marvel line, I believe.  Anakin would be a great candidate, but the whole Sebastian/Hayden issue muddles things (thanks, George).  Lando might be nice, but we just got one two years ago--although a more-articulated one would be welcomed.  Then you've got Amanaman and EV-9D9, which I'm not sure can be improved upon too much.  Then there's the Imperial Dignitary (Sim Aloo), which would be an incredibly tough sell at this price point, in my opinion.  The A-Wing Pilot might be cool, but Hasbro seems to prefer doing helmeted Imperial troopers for this line.  Artoo would be possible, I suppose.  That leaves Yak Face and the two Ewoks.  No chance in hell of getting Ewoks in this line.  I'd like to see Yak Face, though--it'd be cool to finally get a carded version in America.  But how would they do it?  The Canadian card?  Or the unproduced American card? 

And here's everything else that had POTF logo releases:

Chewbacca
See-Threepio (C-3PO) with removable limbs
Darth Vader
Imperial Stormtrooper
Ben (Obi-Wan) Kenobi
Jawa
Luke Skywalker (X-Wing Fighter Pilot)

Yoda, The Jedi Master
AT-AT Driver

Luke Skywalker (Jedi Knight Outfit)
Gamorrean Guard
Biker Scout
Nikto
Princess Leia Organa (In Combat Poncho)
Wicket W. Warrick
The Emperor
B-Wing Pilot
Han Solo (In Trench Coat)
Teebo
AT-ST Driver
Lumat
Paploo

So that's twenty-two other cards they could do.  Eight of them have already been done in the vintage line (nine if you count Threepio), four of them are Ewoks, and we just got a really nice AT-AT Driver this year.  So that realistically leaves eight (or nine, depending again on Threepio):

Jawa
(Threepio limbs)
Luke Jedi
Gamorrean
Nikto
Leia Endor
Emperor
B-Wing Pilot
AT-ST Driver

The Jawa might be a tough sell due to his size, and even if he wasn't, I'd rather see a SW-carded version instead.  I'm not a huge fan of the semi-helmeted army builders.  I'd like to see 'em, don't get me wrong, but not for $10+ each.  Same with Nikto.  That leaves Luke Jedi, the Gamorrean, Leia Endor, and the Emperor--all of which would make for excellent vintage-style figures, in my opinion.  There's a lot that could be done with them which would make them worth the dough--Luke Jedi and Leia Endor have tons of accessories, the Gamorrean is huge and needs updating anyway, and there's still the need for a really good soft-goods Emperor, I think.

Anyway, I don't mean to go on and on about this ****--I just really like the POTF cards.  I think they're the most-handsome of the vintage logos and I'd like to see some new versions of them.  And now that Hasbro's making coins, I see no reason why they shouldn't.  And it's always fun to speculate.
Title: Re: Let's discuss the future of the retro-vintage line.
Post by: Nicklab on October 4, 2006, 07:38 PM
Okay, so back in June, they "had no plans" for POTF-style cardbacks in the retro-vintage line.  I get it.  But three months have passed, and the cat is out of the bag, as far as next year's coin pack-ins go.  So wouldn't that be a perfect time to do a run of POTF-style cards?  I mean, they're already manufacturing the coins anyway, and clearly there's interest in POTF-style cards, and it would be a great opportunity to get a little extra mileage out of the retro-vintage line. . .

So what do you guys think?  POTF-style vintage cards next year, or no?



I would definitely say that it's a possibility.  First, Hasbro has been asked some VERY direct questions about specific products in the Q&A sessions, and in some cases they've offered flat denials.  Fast forward to Comic Con and some of those self-same products were confirmed by Hasbro either in the display cases at their booth, or in the presentation they held.  The Q&A's certainly aren't gospel, and Hasbro has played some things very close to their vests.

Another things that makes me think that they may make a POTF vintage figure is this:  The recent Hasbro piece about that the collectible coin album stated that the album has some extra slots that are set aside for duplicates and potential promotional coins.  The POTF coin might fit in with the whole promotional coin concept that they've been discussing.
Title: Re: Let's discuss the future of the retro-vintage line.
Post by: speedermike on October 4, 2006, 10:46 PM
I think that the extra slots are for convention only coins...
Title: Re: Let's discuss the future of the retro-vintage line.
Post by: Jeff on October 4, 2006, 11:51 PM
In addition to the convention exclusive coin rumors, we've also got rumors of UGH gold coins next year too and that could be what Hasbro means by "promo" coins... 

POTF Cards would be pretty cool though if they could swing it.  As lame as it is to say it, I'd be all over a VOTC-quality Sim Aloo or VOTC quality YakFace.   :-[
Title: Re: Let's discuss the future of the retro-vintage line.
Post by: Daigo-Bah on October 5, 2006, 12:03 AM
I think the best choices for new vintage-themed figures are any characters with significant amounts of armor or soft goods.  I don't think Leia Endor needs to be in this line, just as Luke Endor didn't need to be.  Furthermore, Chirpa is proof that any ewok can be in the regular line.  Now, I think the Snowtrooper is the perfect choice, as would be a new Death Star Trooper.  IG-88 might work if they upsize him about 50%.  Rebel Pilots would be perfect, such as A-Wing and B-Wing pilots.  Definitely would like to see a new Walrus Man here, and even an Admiral Ackbar, even though they aren't armored or needing soft goods.
Title: Re: Let's discuss the future of the retro-vintage line.
Post by: Matt on October 5, 2006, 12:55 AM
I think the best choices for new vintage-themed figures are any characters with significant amounts of armor or soft goods.  I don't think Leia Endor needs to be in this line, just as Luke Endor didn't need to be.

Yeah, but the base figure for Endor Luke was already fairly decent, with a good likeness, and better-than-average articulation.  The base figures for an Endor Leia in the same style wouldn't be as good--the last General Leia is six years old, with six points of articulation, and the Endor Leias that came before that aren't really all that great, either.  I suppose with a few new parts and some kit-bashing, they could make a decent General Leia base figure, but then there's the whole issue of scale, and I don't think Hasbro really started paying attention to scale until after the most recent one was released.

I don't know, I think there's a lot of potential there--a chance to give us an all-new sculpt, well-articulated, with some good accessories, and it'd be a way to give us two characters in one, really.  Plus, it's another main character--and they've been pretty important in the retro-vintage line.  I think there's a lot more "bang for your buck" with a new Endor Leia as opposed to a new Ackbar, for example.
Title: Re: Let's discuss the future of the retro-vintage line.
Post by: JACKOFTRADZE on October 5, 2006, 04:48 PM
From what the reports say IG-88 has replaced the Jawa which I think is  a good move. The Jawa got moved to the regular line, which I suspect was a price value issue. IG-88 is a good choice because they can really hook him up this tim and not make him so static as his puppet counterpart in ESB.

Ackbar needs a new figure but is not VOTC worthy. So I agree with you there. Lyuke Endor would have been sweet here, we all could have had that final duel one we been clammoring for.
I really hope its Han Bespin not Han Hoth. I am bored of Hoth and fine with the Han we have. I would love to see some POTF re-release for this, its perfect timing with the coin thing going on. Luke Stormtrooper, Yak-Face would be very cool to see. Yak may not be the most popular but he was the most rare.
Title: Re: Let's discuss the future of the retro-vintage line.
Post by: Daigo-Bah on October 5, 2006, 05:17 PM
Yakface certainly has that nostalgia factor and vintage significance, but boy, talk about a pegwarmer in the making.  Think VTSC Greedo but worse.  They would need to slightly underpack him in cases to keep demand high.  About Endor Leia, I absolutely agree we need a new sculpt of Leia's ROTJ duds under the cloak, with some knee articulation.  I just think the scale issue and general simplicity of the figure would better suit the regular line.  But I certainly wouldn't refuse to buy her!
Title: Re: Let's discuss the future of the retro-vintage line.
Post by: speedermike on October 5, 2006, 05:31 PM
It's funny how poeple want the Power of the Force cards reproduced.  To me, those cards were one of the firts steps towards killing the SW line,  There was too mcuh black, and the character picture became smaller.  I bought all of the POTF figs when the hit in 1985, and even back then I felt the coins were nonsense.

Personally, I think Hasbro needs to blow the VOTC/VTSC line wide open with new Rebel Fleet Trooper on a "new" Vintage Style Card.
Title: Re: Let's discuss the future of the retro-vintage line.
Post by: Matt on October 5, 2006, 05:38 PM
With Hasbro acknowledging that there were some problems with the case ratios this year, I wonder if they'll take the opportunity to change 'em up a bit next year and stack 'em a bit more in favor of whatever army-builder they decide to go with.  It would make good business sense to put more troops out there and less potential pegwarmers.  Everybody wins.

And a slight change in topic:

Anyone think Spirit Anakin would be a good mail-in for next year?  Not only would it be a cool little throwback to the vintage line, but if they shipped it loose, they could also sidestep that pesky little issue of Giant Sebastian Shaw Face on the front of the card.

I'd love to see a new Spirit Anakin done up like the '04 OTC Spirit Ben, but with both Sebastian and Hayden heads included, so people could choose between the version they prefer.  But it could really only happen in the basic line or as a mail-in, due to the POTF cardback issue.

But, who am I kidding.  Next year's promotion will probably be George Lucas in Gamorrean Guard costume or something.
Title: Re: Let's discuss the future of the retro-vintage line.
Post by: Matt on October 5, 2006, 05:46 PM
It's funny how poeple want the Power of the Force cards reproduced.  To me, those cards were one of the firts steps towards killing the SW line,  There was too mcuh black, and the character picture became smaller.  I bought all of the POTF figs when the hit in 1985, and even back then I felt the coins were nonsense.

I think the death of the line was less-due to what the cards looked like, and more-due to the fact that there were no more movies in the forseeable future at that point, and kids lost interest.  I, for one, totally lost interest in Star Wars sometime between Christmas '83 and Temple of Doom in Summer '84--well before the POTF line debuted.

And I do really like the look of the POTF cards--I love the logo, and there's an overall elegance to them that's lacking in the previous versions.
Title: Re: Let's discuss the future of the retro-vintage line.
Post by: speedermike on October 5, 2006, 06:40 PM
Matt, I hear what you are saying.   I think that I reacted that way because for 6 or so years there was one type of card that I became very attached to.  And, no, I don't really think that design killed the line.  Interest was low, but Kenner did nothing to re start interest.  Had Kenner released more posable GI JOE type SW figures in 85, I think they could have sold a while longer.
Title: Re: Let's discuss the future of the retro-vintage line.
Post by: Jeff on November 17, 2006, 04:01 PM
From the latest round of Hasbro Q&A at JD (http://www.jedidefender.com/newspro/fullnews.cgi?newsid1163795489,42087,):

Quote
** The new vintage figures will be out in May. The details on the line will be revealed at Toy Fair, in February. We can confirm that there will be six figures in this Asst.

IIRC, I think this is the current rumor list...

ANH
 Jawa - debunked by Hasbro in a Q&A answer (http://www.jedidefender.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=12930.msg259097#msg259097): "will NOT be out in 2007"
TESB
  Luke Skywalker (Bespin Fatigues)
  Imperial Stormtrooper (Hoth Battle Gear)
  Han Solo (Bespin Outfit)
  Bossk
  IG-88 - added to the list by the foreign rumor sites shortly after the Jawa was outed by Hasbro
ROTJ
  Princess Leia Organa (Endor Battle Gear)


I guess we wait until Toy Fair for our confirmation of the six...
Title: Re: Let's discuss the future of the retro-vintage line.
Post by: Morgbug on November 17, 2006, 04:37 PM
Is this the right thread for me to re-iterate my inflexible position? 

I'm annoyed they haven't finished the original 12 figures in the VOTC line.  I can understand the desire for other figures that are either larger or perhaps more popular.  But IG-88 over a Jawa?  Why?  Isn't this line all about nostalgia wrapped up in the selection of figures, the style of cardback and the sculpt? 

What's wrong with doing a Jawa?  Yeah, it's a bit small, but I'm ok with that in this line.  Is the price unfair compared to a larger Luke Skywalker or Han Solo?  Sure, if you open the toys, at least to a degree.  But for a carded piece, no, I don't agree. 

And where's my freakin' Death Squad Commander?  Where's the love Hasbro?  An original 12 figure; an army builder; an imperial.  What's not to love. 

I'm not at all opposed to the bounty hunters being done but didn't the Jawas have a larger and more important role than Bossk or IG-88?  Look, you're (Hasbro) going to milk the line for all it's worth (and as long as you don't replicate the C-3PO fiasco) - that's fine and reasonable and I won't even complain about the notion, I'd love to see the entire vintage line of figures redone in VOTC style.  But don't wear out the bounty hunters, one per wave is more than enough.  Maybe spread out the Han/Luke figures a bit too. 

Hey, at least I said more than crap this time.
Title: Re: Let's discuss the future of the retro-vintage line.
Post by: Darth_Anton on November 17, 2006, 06:18 PM
Well said Brent. You can't get any more classic than the original 12.
Title: Re: Let's discuss the future of the retro-vintage line.
Post by: Billy Ray on November 18, 2006, 11:50 AM
I agree, especially with them releaseing the "Early Bird" set.  Would be nice if they finished off those figures pictured on the backdrop...and I really thought they were headed in that direction. 

The Death Squad Commander is long overdue and one of my favorite vintage figures....and none of that "Star Destroyer Commander" crap either.

As for the Jawa, we paid full price for VOTC R2 and Yoda didn't we?  I'd pay the $10 for the definitve Jawa with softgoods cape...heck, they could even release a VOTC vinyl cape Jawa for nostalgia's sake ala the tall, blue Snaggletooth from the K-Mart Cantina set.
Title: Re: Let's discuss the future of the retro-vintage line.
Post by: Artoo on November 18, 2006, 02:16 PM
I would prefer a SG Jawa than a regular plastic one. More articulation.
Title: Re: Let's discuss the future of the retro-vintage line.
Post by: Daigo-Bah on November 22, 2006, 12:59 AM
Aside from the need for the Jawa to be Vintage packaged for the nostalgia aspect, I really think the regular line is better for it so that we get a pack-in droid or at least 2 jawas.  The Death Squad Commander on the other hand...  I'd also love to see a B-Wing pilot and A-Wing pilot in this line due to the complexity of their outfits.
Title: Re: Let's discuss the future of the retro-vintage line.
Post by: Matt on December 11, 2006, 01:16 PM
There was a really good Q & A from The Jawa this week, that gives some insight into what's left for the retro-vintage assortment:

In regards to the Vintage line, do you cater more to the collectors versus kids? I ask because in the last Q&A you mentioned your hopes to complete the classic vintage line, including the more obscure characters. I would guess that this was a more collector-oriented line due to the pricepoint and presentation, which would lead me to believe that even the obscure characters would still sell very well. And as there are still a few vintage figures that have not yet been remade in the modern line, such as the palace version of Klaatu, this would be a great way to see these unmade characters. In addition, it would be great to see updates of some earlier figures in the Vintage line such as Admiral Ackbar, Wicket, and the Ugnaughts for example. (TJ, 12/08/06) (http://www.thejawa.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=6268.msg57084#msg57084)

The vintage line is definitely a collector-oriented product because of the price point and in a way, the aesthetics of the package and figures as well (kids don't care as much about articulation, for example).  However, there are also varying degrees of collector affinity for figures as well. The more obscure the figures get, some collectors will drop out and not get the whole assortment.  This is the difference between completist collectors, and collectors who cherry-pick their favorites.  The proof of this is in the rate of sales in the vintage line.  Troop builders aside, which of course have greater depth of purchase, vintage figures sell at a rate proportionate with their overall appeal as iconic Star Wars figures and also, with the excellence of the execution of the figure and degree of "must have"-ness.  So either some kids are skewing vintage (which is possible) or there are subtypes of collectors who are causing this effect.  We think the latter is the major factor.  So naturally, this paints a backdrop of uncertainty for the "last half" say of vintage.  Will waves made up of third-tier figures be as appealing as the first and more iconic 25 or so figures we will have done by next spring?  No, they won't be to the overall collecting audience.  So that's why we can't say, with certainty, that we will ever complete an entire vintage recreation line because of this.  Hopefully we will some day, but there are a lot of figures to go and we'll probably be doing mainline versions of them before we do vintage.

---

In other words, when they run out of main characters, army builders, and the "more iconic" secondary characters to do, that's probably gonna be it for the vintage line.
Title: Re: Let's discuss the future of the retro-vintage line.
Post by: Brian on December 11, 2006, 03:03 PM
Thanks for pointing that out Matt, that's a good point.  It kind of seemed like a stretch that many of the other characters in the line would sell as $10 "collector" figures.  It would be neat to get the entire vintage line redone in this way/quality, but at the same time many figures have been recently resculpted in the regular line and turned out pretty nicely.  Also, I see they mention "25 or so done by spring" when they talk about the vintage line, and with 17 done so far, it sounds like we could have as many as 8 on the way - unless they are just giving a general, rounding-up type of number.
Title: Re: Let's discuss the future of the retro-vintage line.
Post by: Nicklab on December 11, 2006, 03:11 PM
There was a really good Q & A from The Jawa this week, that gives some insight into what's left for the retro-vintage assortment:

In regards to the Vintage line, do you cater more to the collectors versus kids? I ask because in the last Q&A you mentioned your hopes to complete the classic vintage line, including the more obscure characters. I would guess that this was a more collector-oriented line due to the pricepoint and presentation, which would lead me to believe that even the obscure characters would still sell very well. And as there are still a few vintage figures that have not yet been remade in the modern line, such as the palace version of Klaatu, this would be a great way to see these unmade characters. In addition, it would be great to see updates of some earlier figures in the Vintage line such as Admiral Ackbar, Wicket, and the Ugnaughts for example. (TJ, 12/08/06) (http://www.thejawa.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=6268.msg57084#msg57084)

The vintage line is definitely a collector-oriented product because of the price point and in a way, the aesthetics of the package and figures as well (kids don't care as much about articulation, for example).  However, there are also varying degrees of collector affinity for figures as well. The more obscure the figures get, some collectors will drop out and not get the whole assortment.  This is the difference between completist collectors, and collectors who cherry-pick their favorites.  The proof of this is in the rate of sales in the vintage line.  Troop builders aside, which of course have greater depth of purchase, vintage figures sell at a rate proportionate with their overall appeal as iconic Star Wars figures and also, with the excellence of the execution of the figure and degree of "must have"-ness.  So either some kids are skewing vintage (which is possible) or there are subtypes of collectors who are causing this effect.  We think the latter is the major factor.  So naturally, this paints a backdrop of uncertainty for the "last half" say of vintage.  Will waves made up of third-tier figures be as appealing as the first and more iconic 25 or so figures we will have done by next spring?  No, they won't be to the overall collecting audience.  So that's why we can't say, with certainty, that we will ever complete an entire vintage recreation line because of this.  Hopefully we will some day, but there are a lot of figures to go and we'll probably be doing mainline versions of them before we do vintage.

---

In other words, when they run out of main characters, army builders, and the "more iconic" secondary characters to do, that's probably gonna be it for the vintage line.

It could be taken another way.  Obviously they're going to need some kind of a core character in the lineup to keep driving things forward.  So I think that could mean that we may get a minimum of core characters per vintage lineup so that the lineups might get more troopers and other vintage figure resculpts.

But we might also wind up with something that we got in the vintage line.  We might wind up getting different cards for the same character, IE the vintage Chewbacca being issued on Star Wars, TESB and ROTJ cards.  I think that would probably be pretty bad for the line.
Title: Re: Let's discuss the future of the retro-vintage line.
Post by: Daigo-Bah on December 11, 2006, 10:10 PM
Your first idea makes a lot of sense, Nicklab- I'd be fine with a couple core characters so that we could get some obscure ones with them.  But I'm not sure I see Hasbro willing to produce multiple cardbacks at this price with the same molds we already purchased.  It's one thing to get repacks at the standard price, but I think they know after seeing how many Greedos and Endor Hans are still out there that it wouldn't be feasible to re-release $10-12 figures on multiple cardbacks.
Title: Re: Let's discuss the future of the retro-vintage line.
Post by: Matt on December 12, 2006, 03:09 PM
It could be taken another way.  Obviously they're going to need some kind of a core character in the lineup to keep driving things forward.  So I think that could mean that we may get a minimum of core characters per vintage lineup so that the lineups might get more troopers and other vintage figure resculpts.

But we might also wind up with something that we got in the vintage line.  We might wind up getting different cards for the same character, IE the vintage Chewbacca being issued on Star Wars, TESB and ROTJ cards.  I think that would probably be pretty bad for the line.

Oh, I agree--if they're planning to see the vintage line to it's conclusion, they're really gonna have to start thinning things out some.  Like you said, repacking and recarding the ones they've already done would be a natural way to extend the line.  More radical ways to do it would be adding in the "never done in the vintage line" OT characters and then prequel characters on vintage-esque cards.

But I don't think that's gonna happen, because "doing the entire range of the vintage line," while an interesting concept, also means that you're doing these high-end versions of third-tier figures from ROTJ and POTF (read: Ewoks).  And people were already bitching about paying $6-7 for tiny Chief Chirpa just a couple months ago--you think those same people are gonna be enthused about paying almost double that for, say, Romba, just for the novelty of the packaging?  I don't.  And the same goes for other lesser characters like the Rancor Keeper and Imperial Dignitary.  They were boring back then, and they're even more-boring today.  Figures like that have "pegwarmer" written all over them--even for the basic line.  No way they'll ever see the light of day on vintage-y cardbacks.

I think we'll see maybe two or three more waves after next year, just enough for them to do the remaining main characters and army builders, along with a few more-well-known secondary characters, and that'll be it.  Then it'll be time for something "new" at the $10-12 price range.  Maybe they could bring back the deluxe sets or something.
Title: Re: Let's discuss the future of the retro-vintage line.
Post by: Nicklab on December 12, 2006, 05:34 PM
Believe me, if they get to the point where they're considering a vintage line Rancor Keeper, then they're gonna lose me!
Title: Re: Let's discuss the future of the retro-vintage line.
Post by: Matt on December 23, 2006, 03:14 PM
A new vintage-esque Bespin Luke has been confirmed by Hasbro's Darryl DePriest, in an interview with Lee's Toy Review:

Quote
Lee’s: Rumors abound about another series of "Vintage" style figures on retro packaging. We've heard scuttlebutt about "super-articulated Stormtrooper, Leia Hoth, and Luke Bespin." Any validity to these rumors?

DePriest: There will indeed be a new wave of vintage style figures consisting of six figures we have not done before. Only one of these mentioned is correct (Luke Bespin). As for the others, we are going to keep the complexion of the line close to the vest. The scheduled on-shelf date is May, so we'll reveal the figures around Toy Fair time.

I'm assuming that Lee's mistakenly asked about a Stormtrooper, instead of the rumored Snowtrooper.

And, although unrelated to the vintage line, also confirmed is the Academy Biggs for Wave 3 in the basic line:

Quote
Lee’s: Why was Biggs Darklighter rendered as a pilot, rather than in his civilian threads as seen in the Anchorhead deleted scenes? Fans have been asking for him in that outfit for quite some time. Will he ever be produced in his civilian clothes?

DePriest: Yes, Biggs in his Academy outfit will be in the very next wave (Wave 3) for 2007! Wave 2, themed around the Battle of Yavin, was actually originally designed to be the last wave in 2006. Because of a production delay, it was pushed out into 2007, and that's why there are back-to-back Biggs.

Not much else of interest, but here's the link (http://www.leestoyreview.com/news-detail.asp?ID=2139) if you'd like to check it out.

Title: Re: Let's discuss the future of the retro-vintage line.
Post by: Artoo on December 23, 2006, 04:44 PM
I'd actually buy a Vintage style Momaw Nadon & General Veers if they were finally SA.
Title: Re: Let's discuss the future of the retro-vintage line.
Post by: Jesse James on December 23, 2006, 06:04 PM
I'm pretty stoked about Luke...  I know a lot like the Saga figure of him, but the pre-posed sculpt kind of killed the articulation, and the tumor on his back has always been distracting.  I'm curious though, will Hasbro try to be creative with this figure?  I mean, could we see a cloth jacket on him?  I'm not sure I'd like that so much...  It's been tried before where it didn't make sense though, so I could see them trying on a figure who DOES remove his jacket for a large portion of the film.

Either way, SA Bespin Luke's long overdue...  SA any main classic character is long overdue.
Title: Re: Let's discuss the future of the retro-vintage line.
Post by: Diddly on December 24, 2006, 12:55 AM
I hope they just do simple plastic for the Bespin Luke. Really there isn't much you could use soft goods for, unless you do like Jesse said and make a soft goods jacket with Luke's Dagobah muscle shirt underneath. I just don't see Hasbro doing that. I do see this Bespin Luke including a lot of accessories like the Pilot Luke did this year - Saber, Saber hilt, blaster, and the removeable hand have to all be included. Maybe they'll include the Bacta tank that came with the 2002 Luke as well? That'd be sweet.

I'm kinda disappointed that Hoth Leia isn't happening. That's a figure we really need a resculpt of, IMO, since we haven't had one since that POTJ statue version came out.
Title: Re: Let's discuss the future of the retro-vintage line.
Post by: Nicklab on December 24, 2006, 09:55 AM
I'm kinda disappointed that Hoth Leia isn't happening. That's a figure we really need a resculpt of, IMO, since we haven't had one since that POTJ statue version came out.

It sounds like Lee's had some bad info about the vintage Leia.  The rumors that have been swirling around about that figure say that it's actually an Endor Leia, not a Hoth version.  So I did some digging to see what the vintage Endor Leia was like, and that piece had a sg poncho, removable helmet and blaster.  So it seems as though Hasbro may copy what they did with TSC Endor Luke and apply it to a good sculpt of Leia in Endor gear.  Hopefully this version will be articulated well enough in the hips that it can ride a speeder bike!
Title: Re: Let's discuss the future of the retro-vintage line.
Post by: David on December 24, 2006, 12:44 PM
I'm kinda disappointed that Hoth Leia isn't happening. That's a figure we really need a resculpt of, IMO, since we haven't had one since that POTJ statue version came out.

 So I did some digging to see what the vintage Endor Leia was like, and that piece had a sg poncho, removable helmet and blaster.  So it seems as though Hasbro may copy what they did with TSC Endor Luke and apply it to a good sculpt of Leia in Endor gear. 

what good sculpt of endor leia? if you mean an existing sculpt, a good one is nowhere to be found!  :P

Title: Re: Let's discuss the future of the retro-vintage line.
Post by: Nicklab on December 24, 2006, 09:21 PM
What I mean is have those Endor Luke accessories:  blaster, holster, helmet, poncho, etc and add those to a good, *NEW* sculpt of Leia in Endor Rebel gear.  That's honestly what I think is going to happen, especially since there haven't been any reissues put on a Vintage style card.  Every figure that's been part of the vintage line has been a totally new sculpt even though some have been reissued afterwards.
Title: Re: Let's discuss the future of the retro-vintage line.
Post by: David on December 25, 2006, 11:33 AM
that's true, and as hard to get off as the accesories are, theyd be nice on a BRAND NEW, SA endor leia
Title: Re: Let's discuss the future of the retro-vintage line.
Post by: Artoo on December 27, 2006, 01:41 AM
I'm happy with the announcement of the new Bespin Luke.
Title: Re: Let's discuss the future of the retro-vintage line.
Post by: Morgbug on December 28, 2006, 11:33 AM
Luke Bespin
Leia Endor (which would lend itself to Endor Luke down the road?)
Snowtrooper
Death Squad Commander
Bossk ::)
Zuckuss

There's your six for the next series.  Really, they should do the Jawa, but won't because of perceived complaints regarding the size, should it not be a two pack. 

Based on Matt's post back on December 11th, I think it's reasonable to expect them to do all the vintage versions of:
Luke
Leia
Han
main army builders: Stormtrooper, Biker Scout, Tusken Raider, Tie Pilot, Snowtrooper
main characters
bounty hunters

So we're looking at 1-2 more Luke's; 1 more Leia; 1 more Han.  Zuckuss, 4-LOM, IG-88, Bossk and Dengar.  I think the snowtrooper (Hoth stormtrooper if you prefer) and the Tie Pilot are probable but I'm less convinced about the Death Squad Commander and AT-AT Driver being done.  I do think they'll do Jawas and will throw in a chase figure with the vinyl cape version.  Beyond that I can't think of too much more, unless they start drifting into Skiff Guards and Jabba's denizens but I think those fit into the third tier characters more so than anything else.
Title: Re: Let's discuss the future of the retro-vintage line.
Post by: Artoo on December 28, 2006, 03:52 PM
Walrus Man. He needs done bad.
Title: Re: Let's discuss the future of the retro-vintage line.
Post by: Paul on December 28, 2006, 08:19 PM
Obviously I would buy the entire vintage line done in this style, but I am not the one Hasbro makes toys for.

I would love to see the "Troops" from both sides of the Galactic Civil war that was done in the Vintage line done here.

I guess I am also in the minority on the issue of "Value"...I bought (ok mom and dad and grandma bought) single carded Jawas and Droids and Ewoks back in the day, so I don't mind the single Jawa or Ugnaught (especially in the "homage" line)...I don't buy my figures by the pound.  I'd rather have a SA Jawa or Ugnaught for $10 than a pre-posed, action feature laden ANYTHING for $5.  Matter of taste I guess.

With the Death Star Trooper we are getting next year, can we be sure Death Squad Trooper will be in the "Vintage" line?  One can hope. 

I'd even buy Jabba's folks in this line.  And Artoo is right.  Walrus Man needs this treatment.
Title: Re: Let's discuss the future of the retro-vintage line.
Post by: Morgbug on December 29, 2006, 10:04 PM
Oh I'd be happier buying anything from the vintage lineup in this redux.  But Hasbro has said that won't happen and for once I believe them.  I'd have been ecstatic if they'd followed merrily along the vintage release line, in order. 

But all I really want them to do is finish off the first 12 figures.  I'm not any more concerned with their being a single Jawa on a card than you are Paul.  R2 is short; snaggletooth is short.  I'm fine with it being a single with no monster accessory (though I'm happy too to see the Jawa and new droid in the 30th AC).  Ideally I'd like to see them do an even split of vinyl and cloth for them so no one is left wanting and there's no secondary market.  But I can almost smell the wheels turning for the buzz a new VCJ would create if it was a short packed figure.  Be better as a mail away though. 

That would leave our friend the Death Squad Commander to be done.  Pretty please.
Title: Re: Let's discuss the future of the retro-vintage line.
Post by: Nicklab on December 29, 2006, 11:18 PM
I definitely want to see both a Jawa and Death Squad Commander.  They're the last of the 12 back characters to be done in the vintage style, and I think there's the potential for Hasbro to do a lot with these.

A Jawa could actually be a great little figure.  It could be well articulated with some good accessories.  The articulation could be similar to the ROTS Yoda that's been repacked a few times.  It's a prime candidate for a softgoods cloak.  You could even make removable bandoliers for them.  Add in the Ion blaster and a droid remote and while it might be a short figure, it's probably not a cheap one.

A Death Squad Commander might be a revised Death Star Trooper from the 30AC, but in grey and possibly with less bulbous joints.  The 30AC DST looks cool, but I think the articulation is detracting from that sculpt.
Title: Re: Let's discuss the future of the retro-vintage line.
Post by: Matt on March 17, 2007, 12:08 PM
I'm a little puzzled about Hasbro's response to this question from The Jawa yesterday:

It seems that with the pack-in coins that we're getting in the current line that incorporating the Power Of The Force line into the vintage line would be a natural fit.  Has that concept been entertained considering the current coin pack-ins? (TJ, 3/16/07) (http://www.thejawa.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=6379.msg58223#msg58223)

We deliberately stayed away from the coins in the VOTC because not all of the figures would have had them.  Instead, we came up with the idea of doing the coins as a mail-in follow-up to our 2006 promotion and to be a "parallel" set with the 30th Anniv. coins.

(JD asked a similar question some months back which was summarily ignored.)

I guess I just don't understand why they're so reluctant to look at the POTF cards for the vintage line.  This year was a perfect opportunity to do it.  And maybe there's not a whole lot they could do with the remaining "POTF-only" figures, but there's still a few ROTJ figures which were released on the POTF cardback and could be considered worthy of the vintage treatment:  Jedi Luke, Gamorrean Guard, and The Emperor, for starters.  Add those to the viable POTF-only figures, like Han Carbonite and Lando General, and you've got a nice little wave of main characters, an army-builder, and a bad guy.  Maybe even throw in Yak Face for a fan wank (mail-in, even).  And they've all got coins.

Something like that would be perfect for next year, which is Jedi's 25th anniversary.  But it'll never happen.  They'll have moved onto some other premium by then.  Something cool, like pogs or scratch-n-sniff stickers or something.
Title: Re: Let's discuss the future of the retro-vintage line.
Post by: Nicklab on March 17, 2007, 01:00 PM
When we were prepping question over at The Jawa this question really made sense.  The whole value added concept with the 30AC Basic Figures is a complete throwback to the vintage POTF line.  And there are some very iconic characters in the POTF line that could be the basis for a modern Vintage figure wave.  But perhaps Hasbro saw that line as too limiting and they wanted to go with other characters first.  That's my hypothesis about the real motivation here, and not the non-answer that we got.
Title: Re: 30AC "Vintage" Wave
Post by: darthmac on April 24, 2007, 04:21 PM
They REALLY need to do the Emperor & Royal Guard for this line.  Every Emperor in the modern line has been a disaster in my opinion (I tolerate the cinema scene one because of the awesome chair).  Jedi Luke, Hoth Leia would also seem to be an obvious choices.  How about this:

The Emperor (JEDI)
Royal Guard (JEDI)
Jedi Luke (JEDI)
Hoth Leia (ESB)
Hoth Luke (ESB)

On second thought that would be 2 Lukes (scratch to Hoth one).
Title: Re: Let's discuss the future of the retro-vintage line.
Post by: Brian on April 24, 2007, 04:34 PM
I mentioned this in the 2007 VTAC thread, but thought it might belong here too.  Looking at the makeup of the past lineups, it seems like the main characters (Han, Luke, Leia) are represented along with army builders (Stormtrooper, Snowtrooper, Biker Scout) and a couple of "interesting" aliens (Greedo, Bossk) and/or supporting characters (Lando, Yoda, Fett).  With that in mind, what do you think potential future "vintage" lineups could look like?

Looking at main characters, there is really only one Han that is left (Bespin), or possibly a re-do of Han in Carbonite.  Luke has been well covered too, but we could always see a Hoth Luke or possibly Jedi Luke (depending on the one in the basic TAC line this year).  Leia has a couple different versions that could be done, but Hoth Leia might be the best choice.

The army builders are fairly well covered at this point, with the big ones (Stormie, Snowtrooper, Scout) all being done - and done well.  Even other troops (TIE Pilot, Imp. Gunner, etc.) have been done pretty well in the basic lines the past couple years.  It would be nice to see them move to Rebel troops.  They may not sell quite as well (to casual buyers, in particular), but collectors are ready for them I think.  A super articulated Hoth Trooper, Endor Soldier, or others would be welcome.  You could also see something like the Royal Guard included here, although the one from the ROTS basic line is pretty nice already.

As far as supporting characters, obviously the Emperor stands out as one figure that really hasn't had a perfect (or close) version done yet.  There's also the option of more of the bounty hunters that haven't already been made (Dengar, Zuckuss), Cantina aliens (Walrusman), or other interesting background characters (Ackbar, Gamorrean Guard, etc.)  There is of course lots of figures from the vintage line that are left to be re-done, but many are being done pretty well in the basic line.  Also, I think there probably has to (at least from Hasbro/retail's viewpoint) be a main character or two to anchor the wave with.  What do you think future lineups could look like?  Here's one I wouldn't mind seeing, going with a 6 figure wave model:

Han Solo (Bespin)
Luke Skywalker (Hoth)
Princess Leia Organa (Hoth)
Emperor
Rebel Soldier (Hoth)
Gamorrean Guard

Maybe a little ESB heavy, but I'm thinking of "ultimate" figures I'd want to see done if this line only had another wave or two.  I picked one of each for the "big 3", one of the rebel soldiers, and a main supporting and interesting background character.  You could sub in a lot of different characters for those spots though as well.
Title: Re: Let's discuss the future of the retro-vintage line.
Post by: Jesse James on April 24, 2007, 05:35 PM
At this point, my Vintage wants are like this:

-Endor Rebel
-Hoth Rebel Commander (IE: A basic Trooper)
-Hoth Rebel Soldier (IE: Brown vested petty officers)
-Hoth Luke
-Bespin Guard
-Hoth Leia
-Imp. Commander
-AT-AT Commander

Those are my biggies, but obviously the 3 Rebel soldier types top the list of vinty's I'd like to see done in the vintage retro line.
Title: Re: Let's discuss the future of the retro-vintage line.
Post by: Artoo on April 24, 2007, 05:37 PM
2008-Maybe a ROTJ themed wave for 25 years of that movie:
Luke Skywalker w/ Lightsaber, Skiff Blaster, Robe (Jabba's Palace)
Han Solo (Carbonite)
Leia Organa (Hoth)
Emperor Palpatine w/ Cane & Sith Lightning Hands
Endor Rebel Trooper
Jawa 2-Pack
Mail-Away: Admiral Ackbar

2009- All 3 Movie Wave
Luke Skywalker (Stormtrooper Disguise)
Lando Calrissian (General)
Nien Nunb
Royal Gaurd
Walrus Man
Hoth Rebel Trooper
Mail-Away: Boba Fett (TESB)

2010- ESB wave for the 30th anniversary of that movie:
Luke Skywalker (Hoth)
Han Solo (Bespin)
Leia Organa (Bespin)
Tie Fighter Pilot
Zuckuss
Dengar
Mail-Away: Lando Calrissian (Skiff Gaurd)

Then with the main characters done (Luke, Han, Leia, Lando,etc..) the line should end & the all the other figures that need updated should be in the basic line.
Title: Re: 30AC "Vintage" Wave
Post by: Artoo on April 24, 2007, 07:04 PM
The Tie Pilot could be done one more time, the arms suck on the Saga version. Articulated ankles would be nice too.
Title: Re: Let's discuss the future of the retro-vintage line.
Post by: Rob on April 24, 2007, 08:13 PM
Whatever they have to do, with the sole exception of repacks of older figures into vintage-style cards, to complete the vintage run on these cards is a-okay with me. 
Title: Re: 30AC "Vintage" Wave
Post by: David on April 24, 2007, 08:18 PM
Next year's wave could TOTALLY be:

1) Admiral Ackbar
2) Nien Nunb
3) Hoth Leia
4) Walrusman
5) Zuckuss
6) Emperor Palpatine

Also a very cool figure if possible would be Yarna on the early prototype vintage cardback repro from before she was cancelled. THAT would be awesome.
Title: Re: 30AC "Vintage" Wave
Post by: Darth Broem on April 25, 2007, 12:15 AM
I agree that they really need to make a kick ass Palpatine one way or another.  I am kind of surprised they have not done this via the Vintage line. 
Title: Re: 30AC "Vintage" Wave
Post by: Darth_Anton on April 25, 2007, 09:29 AM
I agree that they really need to make a kick ass Palpatine one way or another. 

As opposed to the kick-ass evo one?  ;)

Sure the head sculpt is suspect, but that's one of the coolest figures, period.
Title: Re: Let's discuss the future of the retro-vintage line.
Post by: Darth_Anton on April 25, 2007, 09:36 AM
Whatever they have to do, with the sole exception of repacks of older figures into vintage-style cards, to complete the vintage run on these cards is a-okay with me. 

I agree with that, but at the top of my list is:

Death Squad Commander
Royal Guard
Hoth Rebel Trooper
Jawa - just to see what $10 buys us
Klatuu
A-Wing Pilot
Title: Re: Let's discuss the future of the retro-vintage line.
Post by: Jim on April 25, 2007, 10:32 AM
Did Hasbro ever explain why that Chewie, R2, C-3PO, Stormtrooper and Vader were never released on there first run Star Wars Cards instead of the ESB and ROTJ ones?  It seems like the majority of us wanted to put together a 12-back set.  Maybe they will release them again in the future ???  Is so they really need to resculpt a few IMO.  That C-3PO is crap and the Luke is not much better.
Title: Re: Let's discuss the future of the retro-vintage line.
Post by: Jeff on April 25, 2007, 10:49 AM
Did Hasbro ever explain why that Chewie, R2, C-3PO, Stormtrooper and Vader were never released on there first run Star Wars Cards instead of the ESB and ROTJ ones? 

At comic-con or someplace, they had said that they weren't sure if they would do more, so they wanted to hit all three movies evenly in this batch since 2004 was a "celebrate the OT" year for the DVD push.

Once upon a time, they did say they understood about the 12-back stuff and that they may go back and re-issue those on SW cards... but that was nearly 3 years ago and hasn't happened yet, so I wouldn't hold my breath for it to happen anytime soon.   
Title: Re: Let's discuss the future of the retro-vintage line.
Post by: Rob on April 25, 2007, 02:56 PM
Did Hasbro ever explain why that Chewie, R2, C-3PO, Stormtrooper and Vader were never released on there first run Star Wars Cards instead of the ESB and ROTJ ones?  It seems like the majority of us wanted to put together a 12-back set.  Maybe they will release them again in the future ???  Is so they really need to resculpt a few IMO.  That C-3PO is crap and the Luke is not much better.

That's what I think will happen down the road.  They'll want to start getting into the less exciting characters and will be able to make that happen by re-releasing more popular ones from SW and ESB on alternate cards.
Title: Re: Let's discuss the future of the retro-vintage line.
Post by: Morgbug on April 26, 2007, 01:41 PM

Death Squad Commander

Jawa - just to see what $10 buys us


Thanks Anthony, at least someone out there wants to see the original 12 finished off.  I find it moderately blasphemous that even Hasbro can't finish out the homage to the original 12 figures in a line basically designed to do so.  I don't have any problem with the original release, putting Fett in there was a no brainer.  Lando was a bit suspect, but I'm happy to have it.  As long as they finish out the original 12, they can put a cupcake on a card and call it a figure and I won't give a crap. 

My five:

Jawa (not a two pack - economics be damned)
Death Squad Commander (so named)
Royal Guard (need that army builder)
Death Star Droid (in silver)
Zuckuss (they've admitted they'll run out the bounty hunters)
Title: Re: Let's discuss the future of the retro-vintage line.
Post by: Ryan on April 26, 2007, 02:20 PM

Death Squad Commander

Jawa - just to see what $10 buys us


Thanks Anthony, at least someone out there wants to see the original 12 finished off.  I find it moderately blasphemous that even Hasbro can't finish out the homage to the original 12 figures in a line basically designed to do so.  I don't have any problem with the original release, putting Fett in there was a no brainer.  Lando was a bit suspect, but I'm happy to have it.  As long as they finish out the original 12, they can put a cupcake on a card and call it a figure and I won't give a crap. 

I wasn't around for the original 12, but I'd love to see them all done up VOTC style as well. It'd make for a nice homage to the vintage era. Not to mention I have that nice Early Bird display I'd love to stock full with VOTC styled Original 12 figures...

I'm fine with the ROTS Guard for now to be honest, so I don't have it on my lists. Maybe someday a nice SA version with a force pike, but for the next wave I'd like

Jawa (I'm Impartial on the two pack issue)
Death Squad Commander
Endor Rebel SA
Death Star Droid (SA Silver)
Zuckuss
A-Wing Pilot
Title: Re: Let's discuss the future of the retro-vintage line.
Post by: Morgbug on April 26, 2007, 02:46 PM
I'm not stuck on the royal guard at all, I just think they need to put an army builder in there that has Imperial roots.  I just don't see Hoth/Endor soldiers selling well, SA or not, at this price point given they sit (yes, some are indeed awful) at half the price.  I'm not unhappy with the current Guards either. 

For the Jawa's, I agree that on a per dollar basis, there's little they can do to ensure a single Jawa is worth $10.  But I'd contend they've already had some figures that weren't worth near that price (R2.3PO leap immediately to mind) for the figure.  But I view the pricepoint as a package issue more than anything else.  A decently done and accessorized (blaster and droid collar thingy) Jawa with a good cape (vinyl for homage purposes) is something I'm looking to keep carded more than open, I already have tons of Jawas that while not great, are all suitable.  I'd buy one or two to open as well, but considering how awful C-3PO was and unspectacular R2 was, we don't need it to be two.  As I said, I just want to see it carded to fill out the first 12. 
Title: Re: Let's discuss the future of the retro-vintage line.
Post by: Nicklab on April 27, 2007, 11:26 PM
Like I said way back in the thread, I feel pretty committed to getting the original 12 back characters done.  So if we're looking at a wave of 6 vintage figures for next year this would be my lineup:

-Death Squad Commander
-Jawa - I'm fine with it being a single figure.  Yoda was a single figure.  Do some nice softgoods and bandolier and we're golden.
-Luke Skywalker - Jedi Knight
-Emporer Palpatine
-Walrusman (aka Ponda Baba)
-Hoth Rebel Trooper
Title: Re: Let's discuss the future of the retro-vintage line.
Post by: speedermike on April 27, 2007, 11:30 PM
Klaatu, Nikto, Barada...
Title: Re: Let's discuss the future of the retro-vintage line.
Post by: Matt on April 28, 2007, 09:50 AM
I'm a little puzzled about Hasbro's response to this question from The Jawa yesterday:

It seems that with the pack-in coins that we're getting in the current line that incorporating the Power Of The Force line into the vintage line would be a natural fit.  Has that concept been entertained considering the current coin pack-ins? (TJ, 3/16/07) (http://www.thejawa.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=6379.msg58223#msg58223)

We deliberately stayed away from the coins in the VOTC because not all of the figures would have had them.  Instead, we came up with the idea of doing the coins as a mail-in follow-up to our 2006 promotion and to be a "parallel" set with the 30th Anniv. coins.

Another "why didn't you do POTF cards this year" question was asked in this week's Q & A, and another befuddling response was given:

---------

Coins are a big theme this year for the 30th anniversary, being a big part of the vintage line. As a tie-in, why didn't Hasbro make this years vintage style figures on the POTF style cards, with the coin packed in as well? Was this ever a consideration? It would have been a great tie-in with this years coin collection. Might we still see an exclusive figure packed like this? (JTA, 4/27/07) (http://www.jeditemplearchives.com/content/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=3073)

It was not a consideration because we have certain figures we never made with POTF cardbacks and our direction was "all or none" with the coins. So we decided to make it a mail-in program instead. There are no additional vintage figures planned for this year.

-------------

I'm just still not understanding their reasoning for not doing POTF cards this year.  Is it that the figures themselves come first, and then it's determined what assortment (basic or vintage) they're going to go in?   

Still though, there was some good news in regards to a POTF wave:

-----------

With the continuing success of the Vintage Collection series, what are the chances we'll see a Vintage Power of the Force series, and more importantly, a super-articulated resculpt of Yakface (Saelt-Marae)? (SWC, 4/27/07) (http://www.swcollector.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1001)

If Vintage continues, doing some POTF series does make sense so the chances are good at some point. Yak-Face would be very low on our list of ones to do, simply because there are a lot more important iconic characters ahead of him.
Title: Re: Let's discuss the future of the retro-vintage line.
Post by: Nicklab on April 28, 2007, 09:41 PM
I've been thinking about what an all Power Of The Force vintage wave would be like.  And looking over the figure list, I think it would be a bit of a tough sell to populate an entire wave.  Here's what was offered in that line:

POWER OF THE FORCE 1984
  A-Wing Pilot
  Han Solo (In Carbonite Chamber)
  Imperial Dignitary
  Imperial Gunner
  Luke Skywalker (Imperial Stormtrooper Outfit) 
 
POWER OF THE FORCE 1985
  Anakin Skywalker
  Amanaman
  Barada
  EV-9D9
  Lando Calrissian (General Pilot)
  Luke Skywalker (In Battle Poncho) 
  Romba
  Warok
  Yak Face


Looking over that list there are some obvious choices.  IMO, those are:
  Han Solo (In Carbonite Chamber)
  Luke Skywalker (Imperial Stormtrooper Outfit)
  Anakin Skywalker

I would choose General Lando, but it seems like a bit of a stretch to have that many core characters in a vintage wave.  I also would have chosen the Imperial Gunner, but Hasbro made him in TSC for 2006.  Oops.  All of a sudden we have ZERO Imperial troopers in the wave, and those have been some of the hottest figures in the vintage line.

So then who do you choose for an all-POTF line?  Here's my 6 figure lineup:

  Han Solo (In Carbonite Chamber)
  Luke Skywalker (Imperial Stormtrooper Outfit)
  Anakin Skywalker
  A-Wing Pilot
  Imperial Dignitary
  Yak Face
Title: Re: Let's discuss the future of the retro-vintage line.
Post by: David on April 28, 2007, 11:36 PM
Imperial Dignitary would be a pegwarmer, but he is definitely one I would really want. One of my favorite ROTJ characters to see made. That being said, Nien Nunb and Ackbar are WAY more needed than him, first things first.  8)
Title: Re: Let's discuss the future of the retro-vintage line.
Post by: Artoo on April 29, 2007, 11:43 AM
POTF Line:
Stormtrooper Luke Skywalker
Carbon Han Skywalker
Yak Face
Anakin Skywalker
A-Wing Pilot
General Lando Calrissian

I wouldn't count Anakin as a main character in the OT. Well atleast with out the suit on.
Title: Re: Let's discuss the future of the retro-vintage line.
Post by: Brian on May 22, 2007, 02:28 PM
It looks like RS has a new poll (http://www.rebelscum.com/story/front/Vintage_Next_Step_106105.asp) up looking for opinions on the future of the vintage line, apparently in conjunction with Hasbro.  It looks like they are trying to get a feel of where fans would like to see things head in the future (prequel movies are mentioned in one of the questions).  More at the linky.
Title: Re: Let's discuss the future of the retro-vintage line.
Post by: JediMAC on May 22, 2007, 02:33 PM
Yeah, I just noticed that too.  The one thing that their poll doesn't take into account is the current price of these vintage figures, which is actually $11.99 at Targets right now, and not the regular $9.99 that it should be.  I'm sure the higher price would definitely affect the results quite a bit if it actually stuck, but I'm assuming that once WM and TRU get their VTAC stock in at $9.99, Target will (finally) adjust accordingly (so hang on to your receipts!)...

That said, it probably goes without saying that I'd be down for them re-releasing the entire vintage line, and would (unfortunately) be compelled to buy every last one of 'em.  :-[
Title: Re: Let's discuss the future of the retro-vintage line.
Post by: Morgbug on May 22, 2007, 02:44 PM
Prequel figures would kill it for me.  They have no place on a vintage style cardback.  It's downright blasphemous. 
Title: Re: Let's discuss the future of the retro-vintage line.
Post by: Rob on May 22, 2007, 02:46 PM
I'm highly disappointed by RS's results so far.  Most people only want selected figures made.  And many people want to see prequel figures on vintage style cards.

I remain fully in the remake-the-entire-vintage-run-only camp.
Title: Re: Let's discuss the future of the retro-vintage line.
Post by: Brian on May 22, 2007, 02:52 PM
Yeah, the poll has me a little bit worried.  As much as I, and many of us, would like to see "vintage quality" figures made of prequel characters (TPM Obi, Qui-Gon, Jango Fett, etc.), we've seen that Hasbro is capable of making those in the basic line (and pricepoint).  The fact that they ask about them, then essentially ask "how many $9.99 figures can you take?" starts to worry me.  I'd like to see that "vintage" quality across all the figures we see, but I don't want to pay that much for my figures - especially at the 60 figures/year pace.  If they are going to go that route for the entire line eventually, I'd rather see the releases cut way back then.

I think I'm in the camp as well seeing the entire vintage run made in this style, and I'd probably pick them all up.  The question talking about essentially repacking recent figures (R5-D4 and Chief Chirpa are mentioned) on vintage cardbacks is a little troubling too.  I'm not disappointed with either of those figures, but I don't want to pay $9.99 to have them again.  I don't have to of course, but I was trying to keep a carded collection of the vintage figures.  I collect very little carded, but had hoped to keep up with these, but if it becomes a partially repacked line, that will be tougher.  Anyways, nice to see they are thinking about the future of this line - but things could get a little tricky if we see all the movies included at a $9.99 pricepoint.  Why even have the lower "basic" pricepoint anymore - or maybe they won't (yikes).
Title: Re: Let's discuss the future of the retro-vintage line.
Post by: evenflow on May 22, 2007, 02:56 PM
-Death Squad Commander
-Jawa
-Luke Skywalker - Jedi Knight
-Emporer Palpatine
-Imperial Dignitary (good way to finally release it)

My biggest wish would be to get Yarna on the vintage style POTF card with coin since she was so close to being released that way. It would make for the best mailway ever.
Title: Re: Let's discuss the future of the retro-vintage line.
Post by: Morgbug on May 22, 2007, 04:52 PM
-Death Squad Commander
-Jawa

Broken record, but finish out the original twelve please.  Finish out the bounty hunters and figure out another army builder then throw in a Luke.  That's five right there, isn't it (six)?

As for the poll, I voted for only OT figs, all of the original OT figs but then contradicted myself because I don't have any need to see Chirpa on the VOTC style card.  I'm not opposed to them doing it, but I don't need a loose version of the figure then.  I guess in retrospect I should have voted the other way. 

Interesting to see themselves (or the poll anyway) contradict itself by suggesting they can't really improve Chirpa or the coming 4-LOM anyway.  I guess it's another way of asking if the cardback and case are wroth $5 to you, which is probably what I was thinking when I answered it. 

The high proportion of the folks wanting prequel figures is disturbing.  Obviously no love for vintage among those folks.  I just don't see a fit for those figures on that style of cardback, because there's no real relation to it in any way, shape or form.  Are they going to re-release the red/black TPM card in a case?  If so, I guess I can accept it, but how the hell are they going to make it "vintage-y"?  I think Brian's feeling that this is testing the waters for putting out a fairly standard cardback with case at the $9.99 pricepoint is spot on. 

As mentioned, Hasbro CAN produce high quality figures for a reasonable price on regular cardbacks.  You don't need to ask them to put them on vintage cards if there's no relation.  Just tell Hasbro you want high quality versions of Qui-Gon, etc.  Yeesh, why are manufacturers trying to drive people out of the hobby?  There's some amazing stuff coming, why screw with that?
Title: Re: Let's discuss the future of the retro-vintage line.
Post by: CorranHorn on May 22, 2007, 05:00 PM
The high proportion of the folks wanting prequel figures is disturbing.  Obviously no love for vintage among those folks.  I just don't see a fit for those figures on that style of cardback, because there's no real relation to it in any way, shape or form.  Are they going to re-release the red/black TPM card in a case?  If so, I guess I can accept it, but how the hell are they going to make it "vintage-y"?  I think Brian's feeling that this is testing the waters for putting out a fairly standard cardback with case at the $9.99 pricepoint is spot on. 

I think what's disturbing about that result is people willing to believe that the only way we'll get these high quality figures is through a "vintage" line. So there's 389 (at last check) people who feel that to get an SA Qui-Gon or SA Padme, we have to dish out $10-$12USD for these figures when we damn sure know that Hasbro can put those kind of figures together at the $7 MSRP. The "vintage" line is for nostalgia purposes and that's the key to get people into buying them, it's why I bought them even though I'm pretty sure we'll be seeing all these figures eventually released on "basic" cards. But to push the limit with Prequel figures and OT figures never made by Kenner is ridiculous. Quite frankly, I wish the "vintage" line would come to an end this year so Hasbro can stick the high quality in the "basic" line.
Title: Re: Let's discuss the future of the retro-vintage line.
Post by: Rob on May 22, 2007, 05:03 PM
Why would it have to be an entire POTF wave?  Why not just one or two POTF figures sprinkled into a regular wave?

No wave has been just one thing so far.  Mix and match - whatever works, just no prequel stuff.

I'd even think it would be prudent and necessary (as discussed) to re-release core characters like Vader on the other cardback styles to make waves work.
Title: Re: Let's discuss the future of the retro-vintage line.
Post by: Morgbug on May 22, 2007, 05:16 PM

I think what's disturbing about that result is people willing to believe that the only way we'll get these high quality figures is through a "vintage" line. So there's 389 (at last check) people who feel that to get an SA Qui-Gon or SA Padme, we have to dish out $10-$12USD for these figures when we damn sure know that Hasbro can put those kind of figures together at the $7 MSRP.

Thanks Jason, that's what I wanted to say but didn't get it out there so plainly.  I agree that the likely motivating factor is to get that SA Qui-Gon more than the vintage style cardback.  Slippery slope for collectors.  As mentioned, Hasbro can do that quality in the basic line. 

I'd even think it would be prudent and necessary (as discussed) to re-release core characters like Vader on the other cardback styles to make waves work.

Yup, that's reasonable to me.  Re-release Vader, Stormtrooper and other good, high demand figures as the line goes forward.  Making it a different cardback is a guaranteed money maker for Hasbro.  As long as they don't re-release C-3PO I'd be ok.  If they made a good C-3PO though I wouldn't be opposed to them correcting that huge gaffe. 
Title: Re: Let's discuss the future of the retro-vintage line.
Post by: Jesse James on May 22, 2007, 05:18 PM
I think it's funny that a fan site doesn't be more directly vocal about the good/bad moves Hasbro makes...  This poll is a prime example of what I'm talking about.  The whole idea being proposed/promoted that you HAVE to buy these in a vintage style to get the best quality figure is proposterous to even imply/suggest as a prudent way of going about getting what you want.

These are $6 (No figure should be $7, that's bull**** unto itself) figures on $10-$12 packages, and that's a real screwjob many are happy to live with.  Now don't get me wrong, I love the vintage style cards and everything, and I don't mind the sprinkling of vintage every year...  But you SHOULD get an SA QGJ, you SHOULD get SA Obi-Wan from every film, you SHOULD get SA Army builders...  And when you don't get Super Articulation, you should at least get the level of quality that the 2006 Death STar Gunner delivered, or the Cantina Wave...

Which they're getting better about, no doubt.  But this poll is almost saying (in a way) "let's stop the basic line quality, make basic figures not quite as nice, and see if people really want to pay for the nice figure".  At least it partially reads that way to me in a sense.  As part of a collecting site, I think we all deserve that quality ALL the time.  
Title: Re: Let's discuss the future of the retro-vintage line.
Post by: CHEWIE on May 22, 2007, 05:31 PM
I say just do some killer Evolution sets with Qui Gon and like prequel characters and we are for the most part getting very good quality, and if priced at $19.99 that's not bad for three "good" figures nowadays.

 :P
Title: Re: Let's discuss the future of the retro-vintage line.
Post by: CorranHorn on May 22, 2007, 06:53 PM

I think what's disturbing about that result is people willing to believe that the only way we'll get these high quality figures is through a "vintage" line. So there's 389 (at last check) people who feel that to get an SA Qui-Gon or SA Padme, we have to dish out $10-$12USD for these figures when we damn sure know that Hasbro can put those kind of figures together at the $7 MSRP.

Thanks Jason, that's what I wanted to say but didn't get it out there so plainly.  I agree that the likely motivating factor is to get that SA Qui-Gon more than the vintage style cardback.  Slippery slope for collectors.  As mentioned, Hasbro can do that quality in the basic line. 

No sweat Brent, I was pretty sure that's where you were going as well, but after seeing the poll I needed to vent a bit.  :D

I don't even like the idea of re-releasing previous "vintage" figures on other "vintage" cardbacks. I'm of the thought that these figures should only be re-released on "basic" cards and done so prior to any "refresh" of inferior figures (ex: every OT Chewbacca since 04) or mods of these figures (ex: TSC Boba Fett, 30AC Han Solo).

I say just do some killer Evolution sets with Qui Gon and like prequel characters and we are for the most part getting very good quality, and if priced at $19.99 that's not bad for three "good" figures nowadays.

That's not a bad idea, but when taking account the previously released Evolutions sets, it would only really work for one Prequel character  - Obi-Wan. He's the only other PT char who has significant changes throughout all 3 movies. Padme may work throughout the first 2 movies, but they would be hard-pressed to sell her set at retail.

These are $6 (No figure should be $7, that's bull**** unto itself) figures on $10-$12 packages, and that's a real screwjob many are happy to live with.  Now don't get me wrong, I love the vintage style cards and everything, and I don't mind the sprinkling of vintage every year...  But you SHOULD get an SA QGJ, you SHOULD get SA Obi-Wan from every film, you SHOULD get SA Army builders...  And when you don't get Super Articulation, you should at least get the level of quality that the 2006 Death STar Gunner delivered, or the Cantina Wave...

THIS is why I want to see an end to the "vintage" line. It's a nice novelty, but it's starting to stretch thin in terms of selection - I question putting Bossk and IG-88 (though it's an awesome figure) in this year's lineup - as well as putting the additional dents in our wallet when they have an increased field of competition from within their own brand and elsewhere. They know we'll buy this crap (and I'm every bit as guilty as everyone else for that) so they see no need to put the efforts elsewhere, i.e. SA or near-SA figures in the "basic" line, but it's damn annoying.

Also as an aside since I started thinking about this as I was writing above. In Adam Pawlus' various Q&A's and FOTDs on GH often mentions that a good toy needn't necessarily have super-articulation coming out the gills. And he's right about that, but the additional articulation when done properly enhances the play experience for the kids and makes for a better product for us collectors, who despite them saying otherwise Hasbro does pander to. Hell we've seen with such figures as the ROTS #6 Clone that near-SA quality can work with the action features they like to give kids, so both can make a good toy seperately, together they can make a great toy. Just wanted to state that while I had the opportunity.  :P
Title: Re: Let's discuss the future of the retro-vintage line.
Post by: Rob on May 22, 2007, 07:48 PM
THIS is why I want to see an end to the "vintage" line. It's a nice novelty, but it's starting to stretch thin in terms of selection - I question putting Bossk and IG-88 (though it's an awesome figure) in this year's lineup - as well as putting the additional dents in our wallet when they have an increased field of competition from within their own brand and elsewhere. They know we'll buy this crap (and I'm every bit as guilty as everyone else for that) so they see no need to put the efforts elsewhere, i.e. SA or near-SA figures in the "basic" line, but it's damn annoying.

If there's one thing in Hasbro's line-up that isn't crap, it's the vintage style figures.  They're the highest quality sculpts (threepio notwithstanding) in awesome collectible packaging.  And like you pointed out, you're as guilty for buying it as anyone.  As always, no one's forcing anyone to buy anything - if you don't like it, don't buy it.  If enough people feel the same way, it will stop being profitable and they'll stop being made.  In the mean time I agree with you that I want to see an end to the vintage line - right at about 95 figures or so.   8)
Title: Re: Let's discuss the future of the retro-vintage line.
Post by: Jesse James on May 22, 2007, 09:19 PM
I kind of dig the packaging and I don't feel bad about getting IG-88 and Bossk...  I guess maybe the best "compromise" is to agree ONLY to actual vintage reproductions instead of getting into "Prequal-vintage", or Never-Vintage Vintage like a Fleet Trooper or Tarkin figure...

Does that make any sense?

I'd personally say that $7 isn't a value on a 3.75" action figure AT ALL though...  Not to say it isn't better than $10+ though obviously.  I just feel we're screwed on price since late 2005.  SA or not, that $7 is a TON of money for one small plastic man and it's a bit of bull**** IMO as SW is probably the most expensive toy line in terms of "bang for your buck" I would think.  Comparatively speaking, no figure near that scale costs near that much...  License or not, that's expensive.  $6 max is what I consider fair, personally.

Does the $10-ish price stick in you AS badly if it's a lock that they'd only ever do actual Vintage figures?  To me, not quite as badly, but I teeter on the fence about how much I'd hate paying $10 for a Chief Chirpa, or even a Jawa.  I know some have a special place in their heart for him as part of the original 12 but for me he's half the figure, and would bug the **** out of me to get, half the figure for the same over-inflated price.  I dunno.

I think at the end of the day, if Hasbro guaranteed quality to at least match the Death Star Trooper of last year, I wouldn't care if the vintage "line" went away completely.
Title: Re: Let's discuss the future of the retro-vintage line.
Post by: Rob on May 22, 2007, 09:23 PM
Maybe I'm being gullible, but with gas and oil prices what they are compared to 4 or 5 years ago and factoring in a little bit for inflation, I don't have a hard time believing that it costs about 40% more ($5.00 ----> $7.00) to remain profitable while at the same time delivering a higher quality product.  $7.00 sucks, but we can't expect things to sit at $4.99 forever.
Title: Re: Let's discuss the future of the retro-vintage line.
Post by: Jesse James on May 22, 2007, 09:42 PM
I'd agree if EVERYTHING in the toy aisle had jumped, or even 50% had seen significant price increasing since say 1990.  Nothing has though...  That's where the cynic in my says it's all simply "they'll pay it, so we'll price it as such".  But you see licensed lines from significantly smaller companies come out, deliver a lot, and it seemingly comes in at $5 at most...  I give Hasbro (& retail) the leeway, it's just the jump from $6 to $7 that I finally said to myself that I think they're taking advantage of the masses.

I mean, think about it too...  2005, just 2 years ago, we were paying lower prices than the year previous to it, and then it just seemed the popularity stuck, and with the popularity sticking the price crept a little higher and a little higher... 

The same thing sticks in my mind about the 3" Titanium line too.  It's sudenly a shocking surprise hit, and with it comes a $1 price increase...  I dunno.  Inflation's an obvious fact with all things in life, but it seems like things come a lot quicker with the Star Wars brand on them.
Title: Re: Let's discuss the future of the retro-vintage line.
Post by: Rob on May 22, 2007, 09:56 PM
It could be as simple as applying the price increase for the whole line to the part most likely to be able to absorb an increase in price and still sell.

If the repainted Jedi Starfighters jumped to $25.00 and the Battle Packs hopped up to $25.00, the probably wouldn't sell.  Basic figures continue to do well at $7.00.

I'm just playing Devil's advocate, but I do think it's reasonable to assert that production expenses have gone no where but up over the last 5 or 6 years.
Title: Re: Let's discuss the future of the retro-vintage line.
Post by: Nicklab on May 22, 2007, 10:07 PM
You know that the increase in oil prices has to be affecting EVERYTHING.  From manufacturing to shipping, higher oil prices are going to impact the entire process.  Higher oil prices equals higher plastics prices.  Add in the fact that Hasbro has to pay $200 million to buy back stock from Lucasfilm and it's pretty obvious that Hasbro is going to pass on that increase in cost to the customers.  We are also among the most loyal fanbases that any intellectual property has ever enjoyed, protestations to the contrary be damned.  If a $1 or $2 increase in figure prices from movies years to non-movie years is going to be a problem for collectors, then maybe they should re-examine their relationship with the hobby, financial or otherwise.  The increase in price in a non-movie year is directly related to the drop in sales volume that happens when there is not the cross-promotional tie-in that a movie provides.  I've also seen price increases with Hasbro's Marvel line and the Spiderman line.  Toys are just getting more expensive.

I really like the vintage line.  I used to be a carded and loose completist but I gave that up in 2002 with the line for Attack Of The Clones.  There was just too much volume.  But when Hasbro came up with the Vintage OTC line I had an active interest in collecting a carded line again.  And it was being done in such a way that Hasbro was providing a protective clamshell for the figure, it was fairly limited in quantities, the figures were the highest quality we had ever seen and the cards were fantastic!  There's definitely a value added aspect to the line and I understand the increased costs involved.  And add in the fact that I along with a lot of other collectors in my age range (late 20's to early 40's) who grew up with the Kenner line have more money to devote to the hobby than when we were kids.  Just witness how many high end collectibles companies are producing Star Wars product right now.

As for this new RS poll?  Well, we had to see something like this coming.  The fact is that this line is quickly running out of core characters to populate it.  And I daresay that collectors would go bananas if Hasbro did what Kenner did back in the day and started releasing versions of Vader on cards specific to the first movie and ROTJ.  The PT is still fertile ground for some core characters in a premium format and plenty of army builders.  That being said, I could go for two Vintage style waves per year.  Do an OT vintage wave in the spring and a PT vintage style wave in the fall.  But my fear for the vintage line is that it's going to get dilluted as we run out of core characters and army builders.  Because even though we had some solid characters like Greedo and the Tusken Raider in last year's VTSC line, they weren't super strong sellers.  Who's to say that other cantina aliens would sell well in this format?

Just look at which OT core characters are left:

LUKE SKYWALKER
-Hoth
-ROTJ
-Stormtrooper Disguise

HAN SOLO
-Bespin Gear
-Carbonite Chamber

PRINCESS LEIA
-Hoth
-Bespin

C-3PO
-Cargo net

LANDO CALRISSIAN
-Skiff Guard
-General

VADER/ANAKIN SKYWALKER
-POTF Anakin Skywalker

EMPORER PALPATINE
-Mail-away
-Carded Emporer
Title: Re: Let's discuss the future of the retro-vintage line.
Post by: Rob on May 22, 2007, 10:28 PM
Just to clarify - re-releases on VOTC cards should only be of the existing VOTC sculpt.  IE the Vader we have, but on a SW card.  Not Bespin Duel Vader or some other Vader slapped onto a Vintage Style card.
Title: Re: Let's discuss the future of the retro-vintage line.
Post by: Nicklab on May 22, 2007, 10:36 PM
If that were to happen I completely agree...it would have to be a vintage sculpt.  But even that does not seem like an attractive alternative at this price point.  Frankly I don't even find the prospect of the 30AC ANH tin Vader being reissued on a Star Wars card that appealing.  The same goes for the Early Bird Chewbacca.  Just the thought of putting a reissue on a vintage card seems borderline scandalous, even if those are a couple of very good figures.

Still, there are a couple of vintage figures that might be worthy of being re-done.  Obi-Wan comes to mind.  And maybe the Tatooine Luke.
Title: Re: Let's discuss the future of the retro-vintage line.
Post by: Morgbug on May 23, 2007, 12:19 AM
Can somebody explain to me how they're going to do vintage prequel figures?  They never appeared on any of the SW/ESB/ROTJ/POTF cardbacks, so how exactly are they going to work this?  Really, is anyone really excited to see the TPM cardback reissued a scant 8 years down the road?  It's not vintage.

I'm sorry, but I just see asking for prequel figures on this style of card sort of like handing Hasbro the lube and telling them to have their way with you.  Hey, I'm all for high quality sculpts of young Obi and Qui-Gon.  But it's like I keep telling the damn Ewok fans - your love for that **** begat Jar-Jar, so be careful what you're asking for.
Title: Re: Let's discuss the future of the retro-vintage line.
Post by: CorranHorn on May 23, 2007, 12:47 AM
THIS is why I want to see an end to the "vintage" line. It's a nice novelty, but it's starting to stretch thin in terms of selection - I question putting Bossk and IG-88 (though it's an awesome figure) in this year's lineup - as well as putting the additional dents in our wallet when they have an increased field of competition from within their own brand and elsewhere. They know we'll buy this crap (and I'm every bit as guilty as everyone else for that) so they see no need to put the efforts elsewhere, i.e. SA or near-SA figures in the "basic" line, but it's damn annoying.

If there's one thing in Hasbro's line-up that isn't crap, it's the vintage style figures.  They're the highest quality sculpts (threepio notwithstanding) in awesome collectible packaging.  And like you pointed out, you're as guilty for buying it as anyone.  As always, no one's forcing anyone to buy anything - if you don't like it, don't buy it.  If enough people feel the same way, it will stop being profitable and they'll stop being made.  In the mean time I agree with you that I want to see an end to the vintage line - right at about 95 figures or so.   8)

Rob - "crap" was used here in the same vain as "stuff", probably should have used that instead. Nonetheless, you're right that the "vintage" figures are of the highest quality, but that quality isn't limited to the "vintage" line. So collectible packaging aside it sucks that Hasbro pushes this "vintage" line instead as the cream of the crop when it doesn't have to be, and that's every collector's fault (me too) for buying into this. Though I can't possibly see how anyone would want all 96 original carded vintage figures (got to count Yak Face, RL C-3PO, and the 2 R2's they haven't made yet) done in this "vintage" style. Do figures like Barada, Prune Face, and Rancor Keeper really need this treatment? And what about the figures like the AT-AT Driver who are already of this quality, do they just get re-carded? It's a slippery slope with this "vintage" line, the selection is limited for them to truly gain a profit from re-doing actual vintage figures and branding any post-1995 figure OT or PT as "vintage" is just lame.
Title: Re: Let's discuss the future of the retro-vintage line.
Post by: Dressel Rebel on May 23, 2007, 12:55 AM
Do figures like ...Prune Face...really need this treatment?

You betcha.
Title: Re: Let's discuss the future of the retro-vintage line.
Post by: Matt on May 23, 2007, 01:20 AM
I don't think they'll ever see the vintage line to it's completion.  They've already hit most of the iconic characters/outfits, and after a few more waves made up of the remaining "good ones," there's just not gonna be anything all that compelling left to do.  Warok.  Rancor Keeper.  General Madine, etc.  A bunch of boring-ass characters, who would warm the pegs at $7 each in the basic line, nevermind a $10 deluxe line.

Unless they start seriously watering down and thinning out their vintage waves by recarding past vintage figs, and by adding in "newly vintage" characters (prequel and/or otherwise), I just don't see it happening. 

If today's poll is any indication, I think we'll get a "vintage" Tarkin or Darth Maul before we'll ever get a vintage Lumat, for example.
Title: Re: Let's discuss the future of the retro-vintage line.
Post by: Jesse James on May 23, 2007, 01:58 AM
About the "slippery slope" CH mentioned, I concur with that line of thinking in a lot of ways.  I would like (part of me anyway) to see all the vintage cardbacks and things in one line...  But what about those AT-AT Drivers, Death Star Gunners...  I don't know so much.  I'm a big fan of the idea of the full vintage line redone but I guess at the end of the day I'm a bigger fan of cheaper figures than what we get in vintage.

Add to that the figures I'm sure many just won't want regardless of how nice they are done, like the mentioned Malikili...  Some figures just have universally little appeal at all and would be rough purchases to choke down for "the complete set" feeling.

About the costs and "inflation", I think there's some holes in the inflation between movie years and non-movie years...  99 things go up to $7 a figure, 2002 they drop to $5 a figure, 2005 the price dropped for only part of the year and was going up before Christmas in one of the most profitable years Star Wars has ever seen...  There's been less rhyme/reason to the price increases/decreases than there have been patterns...  Then again there's only been 3 movie years to draw comparisons on in the modern collecting world, so it's a little bit of a hollow argument.

But like I said, going back to my original argument agains the inflation argument...  Inflation is a fraction of the equation.  There's no doubt it impacts everything in the world of consumers from milk and eggs to toys and computers...  But any economist will tell you that comparing one industry's inflation rates/specifics to another is the old "Apples & Oranges" argument.  And if you look around the toy industry, the oil crunch is being felt but not at the rates Hasbro's Star Wars line seems to be going...  Leaving Star Wars aside from the argument, what's a Barbie cost now compared to 1995...  What about GI Joes?  What about POwer Rangers?  Hot Wheels?  Slot Cars?  You'll see lots of toys made of plastic that aren't feeling that crunch...

The better argument is in the company spreading the cost of decisions it makes throughout the line or the brand itself so it doesn't spread to other "teams".  Anyone who's worked in a "team" atmosphere in business knows how fiercely you defend your budget from overages caused by other teams...  Still though, think about this...

Star Wars is seeing more and more sales through re-releases, repaints, etc...  We get lotsa new stuff too, but the great repaint pushes at the holidays have only been common in the last couple years now, vehicles are more and more commonly remixed in.  That's all spread across the brand, but when we discuss why prices go up we never seem to take into account how the company continually SAVES money at the same time. 

I think it's really more retail spreading their increases in expenses to the lines/brands they feel they can fleece the most...  Retail space dedicated to a licensed brand like SW for over 10 years is really rather insane, and it's always been pretty decent space dedicated to the line...  It's pretty safe to assume retail acknowledges the success and realizes when they can do some fleecing without fear of the consumers backing away from the brand...  Is $1 or $2 increases per figure a big increase?  Not really per figure, but at 100 or 200 figures a year, it doesn't take a math major to figure you'd be saving a bit there.  That'd be anywhere from 5 to 10 full tanks of gas for me...  I hardly consider that a drop in the bucket, and in terms of value there's a step forward (or backward) at the $1 increase...  To me that's the difference between ragging on a figure because it lacks knee articulation or doesn't...  The Villie/Vos pack's great at $10...  Make it $12 or $13 and it loses something. 

It's a matter of how you perceive value and things I think, more than anything.  Right now I'm not too displeased with the value, so far in 2007 anyway, but that can change real quick with some limp efforts from Hasbro on a wave or something later in the year...  It's happened in the past.
Title: Re: Let's discuss the future of the retro-vintage line.
Post by: Brian on May 23, 2007, 09:25 AM
Great comments everyone - and I agree, it really is becoming a slippery slope, for all the reasons mentioned here.  The vintage line has been one of my favorite aspects of collecting since it started in 2004, and the assortment I probably look forward to the most each year.  That said, I don't want to see the line migrate to included all characters for $10 a pop.  I simply couldn't afford that, and it isn't necessary for me to have the clamshell (or even spiffy cardbacks).  Like Brent mentioned, I don't see where prequel figures are "vintage" at all.  If they recard using the TPM cardback (or even worse - yawn - the AOTC/Saga cardback), I don't think that really compares to the vintage cardbacks.  The reason I purchase extras of the VOTC/VTSC to leave carded is because of the vintage cardback, the spiffy appearance and the nostalgia factor.  The other option Hasbro has is creating new "vintage" cardbacks for the prequel characters, making them match the OT ones from the 70s/80s.  I don't know if we want to see that either, because it sort of cheapens the vintage line in a way.

Bottom line, like everyone has said here, we can see the vintage quality of figures in the basic line.  In fact, we have, and have been seeing it more and more the past couple years.  Even though the vintage (and OT) are my favorite figures, I can't say that ROTS Pilot Obi-Wan is any less of a figure than VOTC Han Solo - but I got one for $5.24 and one for $9.99.  There are other examples of figures we've seen in the past couple years (Evolutions Anakins, SA Clones - AOTC and ROTS, ROTS Dooku, ROTS Jedi, AT-AT Driver, Leia Boussh, Death Star Gunner, Death Star Trooper, McQuarrie Fett, POTC Cantina figures, Comic Pack Obi-Wan/ARC, etc.) that show we can get essentially the same quality at the basic pricepoint.  I don't want to see the basic line turn into the "crap figures" line, and we only get "ultimate" figures if we pay $10 (or more).  I think this year is looking like one of the best years yet for Star Wars collecting, and that's because the basic line quality has been/looks to be pretty good.  The vintage lineup of course is on the money again, but to see quality through the comic packs, basic line, etc. really brings the whole line up overall.  Also, like Jesse mentioned, licensing fees and all that aside, Star Wars really is an expensive line from the whole "bang for your buck" standpoint.  Seeing some lines in the same scale for $5-6, and lines that are two to three times as big (or as much plastic used) for $9.99, comparatively Star Wars is a little on the high side - especially when you consider we see 60 basic figures a year, plus all the other stuff.  I don't know if any other line can compare with those kind of release numbers in a year (and a non-movie/TV year at that).  Anyways, this vintage line is becoming a slippery slope, and I hope we're not showing Hasbro that we'll pay $10 for all figures from now on.
Title: Re: Let's discuss the future of the retro-vintage line.
Post by: Morgbug on May 23, 2007, 09:58 AM
Quote
The other option Hasbro has is creating new "vintage" cardbacks for the prequel characters, making them match the OT ones from the 70s/80s.  I don't know if we want to see that either, because it sort of cheapens the vintage line in a way.

Y'see, this is exactly what I'm wondering: how can they do this?  There's no vintage nostalgia feel with that to me at all.  They don't belong on those cards because they were never on them.  Hasbro made its design decisions in/for 1999/2002/2005.  Changing the styling to match something from the 70s/80s is pointless.  There's simply no need for it. 

Is it hard to do?  No, not at all.  I can easily envision a black rectangular cardback with The Phantom Menace where Empire Strikes Back used to be.  But what's the point?  If they wanted to invoke the ghosts of the past, they had their opportunity some time ago.  Doing it now is such a blatant rip off to me.  There's just no relation to the vintage cardbacks for the modern prequel figures in my mind. 

Yet again: Hasbro has shown they can release a good quality figure at a decent price point for a "reasonable" price (the quotes are for you JJ  ;))

And while I lean towards seeing the entire vintage line done, yeah, there are some real dogs out there.  As Matt mentioned, Madine isn't going to sell well.  I think there's STILL some OTC Madine floating around in stores near me.  Granted they aren't marked down much, but if they aren't moving at $6, they're sure not going to move at the $15 CAD pricepoint either.  Malakili, Rancor Keeper, Bespin Guards, many of the Ewoks (same argument here as JJ has for the Jawa, they're pretty small for $10-12), Admiral Ackbar, Bib Fortuna?  None of these are going to sell well at all at that price and there's relatively little they can do with those sculpts to justify the new price point. 

Do we need a new AT-AT driver sculpt?  How about the Tie Pilot?  Can they be improved?  Sure, everything can, but I don't see Hasbro changing them up much.  The Saga2 pilot and recent Driver sculpts are pretty decent and could go straight to the package, but I'd buy one of each to have carded and be done until they hit clearance.  Probably not what Hasbro wants to hear and definitely not what retailers want to envision happening.  Same can be said for the recent Cloud Car Pilot.

Now, where's that VOTC Lobot?  The Duplex has a need.
Title: Re: Let's discuss the future of the retro-vintage line.
Post by: Rob on May 23, 2007, 11:57 AM
got to count Yak Face, RL C-3PO, and the 2 R2's they haven't made yet) done in this "vintage" style. Do figures like Barada, Prune Face, and Rancor Keeper really need this treatment? And what about the figures like the AT-AT Driver who are already of this quality, do they just get re-carded? It's a slippery slope with this "vintage" line, the selection is limited for them to truly gain a profit from re-doing actual vintage figures and branding any post-1995 figure OT or PT as "vintage" is just lame.

Some lengthy replies to read still in this thread - but I would absolutely love a high quality, definitive version of the Rancor Keeper, Barada, Snaggletooth, Jawa, Prune Face, B-Wing Pilot, General Nadine, Ackbar, Palpatine, all on nice vintage cards.

Imagine a wall with 96 carded vintage figures, and 96 carded VOTC figures.  It would be awesome.  IMO.

The catch as I keep repeating and most seem to agree, is that it needs to stay limited to the 70's and 80's figures for it to keep being special.  Again, IMO.
Title: Re: Let's discuss the future of the retro-vintage line.
Post by: CHEWIE on May 23, 2007, 12:39 PM
Hmmm.... what else really could be done that would probably sell good enough to justify making them?  I don't think there's any way that all the figures would sell if remade this style.  Here's the ones that I do think should get this treatment eventually... let's say about 7 figures per wave - and make it TWO WAVES per year and limit production a bit more...  I also wouldn't stick with a certain movie theme either for each wave, I think that's just asking for a peg warmer buildup in some cases.


- 1 x Hammerhead
- 1 x Walrus Man
- 2 x Amanaman
- 2 x Han Solo Carbonite
- 2 x Jawa
- 2 x Hoth Luke Skywalker
- 2 x Emperor Palpatine


- 1 x Bib Fortuna
- 1 x Dengar
- 2 x Bespin Gown Leia
- 2 x Endor Rebel
- 2 x Squid Head
- 2 x Bespin Han Solo
- 2 x Emperor Royal Guard


- 1 x Lobot
- 1 x Nien Nunb
- 2 x Imperial Commander
- 2 x AT-AT Driver
- 2 x Emperor Royal Guard
- 2 x 4-LOM
- 2 x C3PO (removable limbs)


- 1 x Admiral Ackbar
- 1 x Lando Skiff Guard
- 1 x Hoth Leia
- 1 x Chief Chirpa
- 2 x TIE Fighter Pilot
- 2 x Zuckuss
- 2 x Bespin Guard
- 2 x Gamorrean Guard


- 1 x 2-1B Medical Droid
- 1 x Rancor Keeper
- 2 x AT-ST Driver
- 2 x Death Squad Commander
- 2 x Death Star Droid
- 2 x Luke (Jedi)
- 2 x Imperial Gunner


- 1 x FX-7
- 1 x Wicket
- 1 x Ugnaught
- 1 x Cloud Car Pilot
- 2 x Hoth Rebel
- 2 x Ree Yees
- 2 x Weequay
- 2 x Stormtrooper Luke

...I really think they need to fix the case assortments moving forward...  A figure, like VOTC Lobot should be packed only 1 per case while a desireable army builder could even get 3 per case.   Regardless of redemeptions/etc, the current mix of ratios is a bad idea from what I see... just look at all the VSTC Greedos and Hans that can still found at retail, and not even selling on clearance.

Who knows how they'll move forward with things... I'd be fine of the vintage line ended altogether since I'm an opener and all this translates to is more money out of my pocket.

 :P
Title: Re: Let's discuss the future of the retro-vintage line.
Post by: darthmac on May 23, 2007, 03:40 PM
As much as having all the old vintage done this way would be cool, it would be a financial disaster for Hasbro.  They need to have at least 2 more waves of this line to get all the essential characters done.

Characters I feel really should be done before line is ended:

Luke Skywalker (Jedi Knight Outfit)
The Emperor
Emperor's Royal Guard
Hoth Luke
Hoth Leia
Bespin Han
4-LOM
Zuckuss
Dengar
Leia (Boushh Disguise)
Jawa
Lando Calrissian (Skiff Guard Disguise)

That is 12 and makes us good for at least another 2 years.

Beyond that the choices for me get tougher.  But I can see the following having legitimate bids:

Amanaman
Imperial TIE Fighter Pilot
AT-AT Driver
Rebel Soldier (Hoth Battle Gear)
Rebel Commander
Admiral Ackbar
Chief Chirpa
Rebel Commando
AT-ST Driver
Title: Re: Let's discuss the future of the retro-vintage line.
Post by: Rob on May 23, 2007, 04:13 PM
I'm confident that Hasbro will take it one wave at a time - if a wave fails to be profitable, they'll probably do one more.  If it happens twice, they'll look into repacks of Stormtroopers or Snowtroopers or repacking existing SA molds into Vintage Cards (if applicable) and if none of that works, they'll stop making them.

I'm buying until then.
Title: Re: Let's discuss the future of the retro-vintage line.
Post by: Morgbug on May 23, 2007, 06:26 PM

Characters I feel really should be done before line is ended:

...

Where, pray tell, is the Death Squad Commander?
Title: Re: Let's discuss the future of the retro-vintage line.
Post by: Paul on May 23, 2007, 11:00 PM
I want the Original 12 no matter what.

I will burn my entire collection if they poison the "Vintage" line with Prequel Computer Generated Characters. 

If it didn't get a Carded Figure before 1985, it shouldn't get a Vintage Line figure.  Which is sad, cuz that means Blue Snaggletooth won't get one, and he was a favorite of mine back in the old days.

Title: Re: Let's discuss the future of the retro-vintage line.
Post by: Brian on May 24, 2007, 03:46 PM
Just looking over the initial pics from C4, I think this once again proves that Hasbro can do the "vintage" quality of figures in the basic line (or comic packs).  I'm not saying I don't want to see more VTSC figures, but it really seems like we're paying for the packaging now - because they could be released in the basic line for a few dollars less.  The quality level seems to be very similar, and they're starting to integrate soft goods into the basic line more too (looking at Hermi, possible Spirit Anakin, Clone Wars Clonetrooper w/poncho, etc.).  Either way, its nice to see more and more figures of this quality - no matter what line we get them in.
Title: Re: Let's discuss the future of the retro-vintage line.
Post by: Rob on May 24, 2007, 03:54 PM
Yeah - seeing these new figures has me tweaking my stance on some of this.

4-LOM for example... the figure looks pretty close to awesome - so there isn't much need to do him again.  If they want to eventually slap him into a vintage card to help complete the run, I think I'd be okay with it.

I'd only buy one to keep carded since I'll have a loose one - but it would still help get to the goal and it would reduce costs for Hasbro to repack in a sense a figure like that.  As long as the figure is SA and looks really good, I think it could work in some cases.
Title: Re: Let's discuss the future of the retro-vintage line.
Post by: ruiner on May 24, 2007, 05:40 PM
Makes one wonder why they didn't hold Zuckuss 4-LOM back for 2008 Vintage?

Title: Re: Let's discuss the future of the retro-vintage line.
Post by: Morgbug on May 24, 2007, 05:43 PM
Makes one wonder why they didn't hold Zuckuss 4-LOM back for 2008 Vintage?



A very valid question considering at one point Hasbro indicated that the vintage line would only really support certain types of characters and I believe they listed core characters, army builders and the bounty hunters.  I fully expected it to be in the line with vintage figures.  The only thing I can think of is them wanting to wrap up the vintage line in the next go around with some core characters and the remaining bounty hunters.
Title: Re: Let's discuss the future of the retro-vintage line.
Post by: ruiner on May 24, 2007, 05:48 PM
I just realized that all hopes one had for a VOTC (carded) run of Bounty Hunters has now been somewhat squashed.
Title: Re: Let's discuss the future of the retro-vintage line.
Post by: Matt on May 24, 2007, 06:37 PM
I was curious about how they would handle the Zuckuss/4-LOM conundrum.  Would they stay faithful to the vintage line, or would they change it up?

The chances of finding that out have now greatly diminished. . .

(Unless, of course, someone decided to ask it during the Q & A sessions, just for ***** and giggles, to see what they'd say. . .) 
Title: Re: Let's discuss the future of the retro-vintage line.
Post by: Nicklab on May 28, 2007, 08:09 PM
About the costs and "inflation", I think there's some holes in the inflation between movie years and non-movie years...  99 things go up to $7 a figure, 2002 they drop to $5 a figure, 2005 the price dropped for only part of the year and was going up before Christmas in one of the most profitable years Star Wars has ever seen...  There's been less rhyme/reason to the price increases/decreases than there have been patterns...  Then again there's only been 3 movie years to draw comparisons on in the modern collecting world, so it's a little bit of a hollow argument.

Actually it's a very valid argument.  1999 was an anomoly.  Why?  It was the first Star Wars NEW movie year since 1983, and all of the licensees involved flooded the market with product.  Anyone who was in the hobby from 1999 - 2001 can attest to that.  EPISODE I product clogged the shelves, and all parties involved (Hasbro, retailers & collectors) got greedy which will account for the higher prices at that time.  And the subsequent pegwarming led those parties to change their tune for the following movie years.  Since that time Hasbro and the retailers have raised prices in the off years and lowered them in both 2002 and 2005.

The cost increases are real.  I spoke with Derryl DePriest of Hasbro over the weekend.  According to him cost increases are hitting them in the cost of plastics, steel for tooling, labor is getting more expensive in China and shipping costs are greater because oil prices are climbing.  I'll tend to take his word when it comes to the pricing of the products.
Title: Re: Let's discuss the future of the retro-vintage line.
Post by: Jesse James on May 28, 2007, 08:46 PM
I agree costs are increasing, but spread across the line, there's things counter-balancing that, which is my point...  It's fine to say 1999 was an anomoly, but only 2 instances as examples post 1999 don't make up a trend is my point there...  Citing the movie years just doesn't stand up as well as an argument for price increases.  Still though, we're looking at a pretty significant % increase since 2002, and that's compared to most any product on the market, which that's simple mathematics and comparisons...  Everything's impacted by inflation, but to what extent?  Is Star Wars somehow hit harder?  It's not even doubtful, it's simply impossible.  Everyone with similar manufacturing woes is hit in the same fashion. 

It's impossible to argue inflation though so that's not the point of the discussion obviously...  I think we are seeing Hasbro combat that through things like "Saga Legends", 6 repaints of the same ship mold, etc., so the reality is that for inflation's problems there are diminishing cost methods of battling that, which is clearly something Hasbro's implemented (and said as much) to put profitability into the line for themselves and counter-balance the increases in costs that they are facing from a resources aspect in creating new product.  THat's fine too, it's why I'm not nearly as upset by a lot of re-hashed product. 

I have no doubts Darryl has a lot of headaches from cost standpoints in the line, but at the end of the day it's in his best interest to make us feel like they barely are able to operate at the capacities they do, for "our benefit".  So considering everything I've seen with budget fudging in business over the years so you give the best possible scenario for YOUR situation to your consumers and execs, I think I'll also take Darryl's woes on the costs with a slight grain of salt.  I'm sure it's not the doom and gloom some think it is with the line, and at the same time I'm sure it's a difficult balancing act too.  I guess at the end of the day I chalk it up to the "rubbery plastic" excuse...  We got about 5 different ones till they settled on one, all from Hasbro's mouth, so yeah they will fib to you a little bit when it suits them and how they're perceived by their buying public.  That's me though...  I believe what I believe about the matter and have plenty of good reason to the same as others feel the way they do, but nobody knows short of seeing the budget laid out for a single average figure in detail...  So it's a moot point regardless to me.
Title: Re: Let's discuss the future of the retro-vintage line.
Post by: ruiner on May 29, 2007, 01:39 PM
Trust me, nobody wants to raise prices.

There's a big change going on right now with this 'global' economy that's not only affecting SW figures...

We don't know the whole story either - the issues Derryl brings up are indeed valid but there may be things he can't disclose like license agreements or guarantees.

Title: Re: Let's discuss the future of the retro-vintage line.
Post by: Brian on June 7, 2007, 09:03 AM
Quick question for you guys...I've always kept my VOTC/VTSC figures "seperate" from the rest of my display, having them on their own shelf because I considered them to be the best of what Star Wars figures had to offer (for the most part).  With last year's wave, I picked up three of each, to have one displayed in each place, in addition to a carded one.  I haven't done that this year, and it seems unnecesssary.  Anyways, after getting this year's wave, there's not really much more room on that shelf, so I'm thinking of just displaying them all together at this point.  It just got me to thinking, do you feel like the vintage figures are substantially better than the basic line at this point, or are we really just paying more for the packaging?  It seems like a lot of the figures in the basic line this year, last year, and from the ROTS line are the same quality - just missing the vintage packaging and clamshell.  Anyways, just wondering if you think the vintage figures themselves are better made than the basic line - or is the packaging the only difference (repacks aside, of course)?
Title: Re: Let's discuss the future of the retro-vintage line.
Post by: Daigo-Bah on June 7, 2007, 10:39 AM
Brian- I say definitely display them together, BUT yes there is a quality difference  :P.  I mean, as far as I know, there isn't any basic figure that has the articulation count of a current vintage figure, plus the paint jobs seem to be more intricate.  Depending on how you collect: if you like to represent everything Hasbro has made, then I can understand separating certain lines from others (like Saga Bossk from Vintage Bossk) but if you just want to display the best representation so far (which is what I do, though in dioramas), then I think you should mix them in.
Title: Re: Let's discuss the future of the retro-vintage line.
Post by: Rob on June 7, 2007, 10:45 AM
I'd agree that they're substantially better.  And with basic figures going up to $7.00 - there isn't as big a price difference as their once was anyway.

I mix mine in with everything else too.
Title: Re: Let's discuss the future of the retro-vintage line.
Post by: Brian on June 7, 2007, 10:47 AM
Yeah, I've been thinking about displaying them together for awhile now.  In fact, like I said, last year I picked up two loose versions of each so I could display them in both places.  I think the only reason I had them on a seperate shelf right now (the rest of my figures are in two glass doored cabinets - one PT/one OT), is just because I liked the simplicity of it and I always thought that if I either had to sell my collection, or lost it somehow, the one thing I would try to pick up again is a set of the "vintage" figures.  Anyways, yeah, its silly to have them seperate at this point - I just had them that way to "highlight" them in a way I think.  I think you're right though, many of the vintage figures are a little better in some ways (the troops in particular), but its nice to see the basic line making strides to get closer.  Even despite some faults, seeing figures like the upcoming Luke Jedi, Bespin Han, 4-LOM, CZ-4, etc., it seems like those type of figures are pretty close (like I said, with some faults).  Its a good (but expensive) time to be a SW collector.
Title: Re: Let's discuss the future of the retro-vintage line.
Post by: ruiner on June 7, 2007, 12:22 PM
I mean, as far as I know, there isn't any basic figure that has the articulation count of a current vintage figure,

SA Clone?

Title: Re: Let's discuss the future of the retro-vintage line.
Post by: Daigo-Bah on June 7, 2007, 09:47 PM
Well, I was referring to OT since that's what the vintage line is.  In other words, he'll never have a basic version and vintage version of the same prequel character.  The wave 3 Stormie doesn't count either because it's already based off of the vintage version  ;D.
Title: Re: Let's discuss the future of the retro-vintage line.
Post by: Jim on June 8, 2007, 07:03 PM
So any rumors to whose next in the line?  I ran into a friend who though he heard that Han Bespin, Luke Hoth or Jedi, Emperor, Tie Fighter Pilot and Walrusman were rumored to be in the next couple of waves. Makes sense since all need a big update. 
Title: Re: Let's discuss the future of the retro-vintage line.
Post by: Nicklab on June 8, 2007, 07:16 PM
Those are some pretty good choices, but I haven't seen any rumors lists to date for 2008's vintage line.  We were talking about most of those characters as good choices a few pages back, but I think it's still pretty wide open until we hear something from Hasbro.
Title: Re: Let's discuss the future of the retro-vintage line.
Post by: Brian on June 11, 2007, 09:55 AM
I was thinking about this more recently, and it seems like now this line has settled in with the "Vintage The Saga Collection" name (VTSC), and even when Hasbro talks about the line, they call it the "vintage" line.  With the issue of them starting to make prequel characters in this line - if that happens, I hope they kind of re-do the name/concept then.  There's nothing "vintage" about the prequels at this time, and if they're going to include the whole Saga in this line, I'd almost rather they would call that line "Star Wars Legends" instead of the repack line.  I don't know what to do for cardbacks then, maybe just create a new one, and if they're going to make it a premium line and do clamshells and the $10 pricepoint - just make it the "best of the best" of Star Wars - main characters and interesting/important supporting characters (like they've done so far).  Anyways, a bit of a tangent, but I just don't like the idea of the line still being called "vintage" when they start making prequel characters (or even non-vintage line characters like Tarkin, RFT, etc.)
Title: Re: Let's discuss the future of the retro-vintage line.
Post by: Jeff on June 19, 2007, 11:13 PM
Hey OT Purists!  Get ready for the prequel "vintage" figures:

"Vintage line... should be expanded to other movies at some point." (http://www.jedidefender.com/newspro/fullnews.cgi?newsid1182308646,72063,)  :-X
Title: Re: Let's discuss the future of the retro-vintage line.
Post by: Morgbug on June 19, 2007, 11:16 PM
That's fine, more money for Gentle Giant and I can mock the absurdity of characters that are only 8 years old as being "vintage".  Gawd, the cardbacks are going to be blasphemous. ::) :P >:( ;)
Title: Re: Let's discuss the future of the retro-vintage line.
Post by: Jesse James on June 19, 2007, 11:19 PM
I dunno how to feel at this point...  I want a "Vintage" styled Fleet Trooper and Tarkin, I really do...  I don't want vintage styled prequal characters.  Part of me thinks, when I see them I'll love them, but the price of the vintage line is really hell to deal with, especially when you like buying multiples of any given figure (army builders included). 

At least it's limited any given year...  I dunno.  I wasn't wild about the thoughts of a "Vintage" styled Ugnaught or Rancor Keeper, but that does sorta put a limit on the direction Hasbro can take the vintage line too.  If you're not willing to shell out $10 for those, or if you're gonna not be happy with it, then they are sort of against the wall on who to fill out a wave with at some point.
Title: Re: Let's discuss the future of the retro-vintage line.
Post by: Brian on June 20, 2007, 09:18 AM
Yeah, I'm not sure how I feel about this either.  I mean, of course I'd like to see some of the prequel characters get "vintage quality" figures, but putting them in a vintage line and creating some kind of faux-vintage cardbacks for them seems kind of iffy.  If they want to continue the "$10 premium figure" niche, I'd almost just as soon hear them use the Saga Legends name for it if its going to contain figures that weren't in the vintage line - or even in the OT movies.  That way they can mix in characters from all six movies that are super articulated and truly the "best of the line".  It seems weird saying "I picked up a vintage Darth Maul and Jango Fett today at Target".  Vintage quality figures - heck yes, vintage titled line for prequel movie characters - nah.  From this answer though, it sounds like we're headed for prequel figures in the lineup.  Aside from doing the entire original lineup (somewhat unlikely), I could handle one more good wave of OT figures in the current style (vintage cardbacks), and then switching to a sort of "Saga Legends" or "Star Wars Ultimate" or some other name that would cover all the movies - with a new/different cardback.
Title: Re: Let's discuss the future of the retro-vintage line.
Post by: evenflow on June 20, 2007, 09:58 AM
Personally i would like them to expand into characters that should have been made in the vintage line but they didnt get to. I saw include a wave with Tarkin, Slave Leia, Rebel Trooper, Yarna Da'l Gargan, etc...
Title: Re: Let's discuss the future of the retro-vintage line.
Post by: David on June 20, 2007, 10:43 AM
I dont really like this. Cant they just put 'premium' (SA and detailed, with actual work put into them) PT and unmade Kenner characters on basic figure cards and just leave this line to the Kenner figures?  :P

Title: Re: Let's discuss the future of the retro-vintage line.
Post by: Brian on August 14, 2007, 03:56 PM
While reading through the Q and A at Galactic Hunter (http://www.galactichunter.com/q_and_a/070813.asp) this week, I noticed the following little blurb:

"So far, Hasbro has given my corporate overlords no solicitation materials on the new Evolutions revival, which I'm starting to think will take the place of Vintage in 2008."

Now, this obviously isn't confirmed or anything at this point - but it just got me to thinking about the line more.  If this were to happen, how would you feel about it.  We've had a variety of opinions in this thread, from wanting Hasbro to do the entire vintage lineup, to ending the subline and just putting those great figures into the basic line.  How would you feel about the Evolutions subline taking this over, or, which would you rather have - the return of Evolutions or more VTSC?  I know they are different pricepoints, so we could have both, but I was just curious how people felt about this possibility.
Title: Re: Let's discuss the future of the retro-vintage line.
Post by: Jeff on August 14, 2007, 04:24 PM
How would you feel about the Evolutions subline taking this over, or, which would you rather have - the return of Evolutions or more VTSC? 

Hasbro has said in the past that to do more Evolutions sets, something else most likely has to get dropped.  In 2005, Hasbro said that the reason there were no "Vintage" figures is because that budget went to create the Evo sets.  Here is what they said on the topic back in a March 2007 Q&A answer:

There is the heart and soul of our figure line - the basic figure mainline, which consumes a good chunk of our design resources - and then there is "all other" which includes or has included vintage, comic packs, Battle Packs (when they have new figures), exclusives (ditto), and Evolutions packs over the past couple years. Each of these takes resources from our pool, and vintage in particular is extremely resource intensive. That's why as long as other lines are going you won't see a huge offering of vintage like you did in 2004, when it was the only ambitious new subline in that lineup. Also add to that the fact we are trying to do more new or substantially refreshed figures in the mainline and you see that we just can't drop big sublines into our production without risking derailing something else. Instead we make sure that we can deliver everything in the "bites" that keep collectors excited, but it just takes more time to get around to everything probably everyone wants.

Here is the key - "we just can't drop big sublines into our production without risking derailing something else. "

Based on past Hasbro comments, I don't think the Vintage line is done, but I won't be surprised if it skips a year again because of the money being spent on the new Evo sets...
Title: Re: Let's discuss the future of the retro-vintage line.
Post by: David on August 14, 2007, 07:18 PM
I would definitely prefer Evolutions to VOTC. Three SA figures and a ton of cool accessories for $25 totally beats one SA figure on a fancy card and usually with an irritating lack of accessories for $12. Bring on the new Evolutions sets!
Title: Re: Let's discuss the future of the retro-vintage line.
Post by: Darth_Anton on August 15, 2007, 09:18 AM
For what it's worth, I'd prefer the VOTC, especially considering what we're getting from Evolutions in '08.
Title: Re: Let's discuss the future of the retro-vintage line.
Post by: evenflow on August 15, 2007, 12:09 PM
Well compared to this years VOTC and next years Evolutions, i am all for the evolution sets. They are much more interesting. I thought this years VOTC figure choice was a bit weak. I wouldnt mind seeing it come back in 2009 but i happy with the evolution sets.
Title: Re: Let's discuss the future of the retro-vintage line.
Post by: Matt on August 15, 2007, 02:16 PM
The one bad thing about the Evolutions sets is that you have to buy all three figures for the twenty bucks or whatever, even if you only really want one or two of them.  The Jedi set next year is a perfect example.  I only want the Qui-Gon, and couldn't care less about the other two.  But, if you're interested in all three figures, Evolutions is a pretty good deal.

The vintage figures are probably a little over-priced, but at least they're all available separately, and in many cases, particularly with Target, they'll be on clearance within a couple months of their release.

But yeah, I'd like to see maybe two or three more waves of vintage.  Just enough to get all the remaining main characters and army builders, and touch on the more iconic aliens and droids and bounty hunters and such.
Title: Re: Let's discuss the future of the retro-vintage line.
Post by: Matt on December 22, 2007, 02:38 PM
Some further commentary on retro-vintage's future today:

Quote
Is the modern "Vintage" line pretty much done? We know there isn't a wave planned for 2008, but to be honest, the basic figure line has pretty much caught up to the Vintage line in terms of articulation and soft goods. Plus, with the return of the Evolutions sets, the high-quality standard is maintained with an opportunity for an even greater choice of characters. With all of this in mind, the only reason to continue the "Vintage" line is for nostalgic packaging in a protective case, which raises the price. (RS, 12/21/07) (http://www.rebelscum.com/story/front/Hasbros_45th_STAR_WARS_QA_The_Answers_111047.asp)

. . .Regarding Vintage, the concept is probably over as far as a high-end, premium clamshell packaged line consisting of 100% new figures, for the reasons you mentioned (a welcome overall trend toward articulation) as well as the fact that there are few really iconic main characters left to do that would be strong anchors for future waves. We do not rule out the possibility that vintage could return in the same format, but we are also looking at other ways where we can harness the great nostalgic power of that very iconic line look. We don't have a timetable for when we bring it back, but know that we are looking at it for farther down the road.

This has been rehashed probably a hundred times in this thread already, but I still think there's enough "big" figures left to do to sustain the vintage SKU for at least another wave or two.  As far as main characters go, there's still Luke Hoth, Luke Jedi, Leia Hoth, Han Bespin (100% anatomically-correct, please), Han Carbonite, Lobot, and The Emperor left to do.  Take a couple of those, and toss in some of the better-known secondary and remaining army-building figures, and they could do a decent comeback wave in 2009.

Unless, of course, 2009's offering will be a Phantom Menace: Tenth Anniversary retro wave. . .   :-X
Title: Re: Let's discuss the future of the retro-vintage line.
Post by: Desfiy on December 22, 2007, 04:05 PM
I am sorry but Vintage and Prequel dont mix in my opinion, they are just not, Evolutions is the line for these, Vintage started out as remakes of the Kenner figures and should stay that way, and they should make the entire line of figures kenner did on all the right cardbacks, if you dont like the figure no one says you must buy it, but theres people out there who would, and I think it would be enough people to justify Hasbro making the Entire Vintage Line without resulting to these tactics.

As for the Evolutions themselves I like the idea the only problem is the price point and lack of choice, if you want only say for instance ESB Boba Fett you have to buy the other 2 figures as well, so in effect you have just spent 25.00 on Boba Fett which you could have got for 11.99 in the Vintage Line.
Title: Re: Let's discuss the future of the retro-vintage line.
Post by: JediJman on December 22, 2007, 11:26 PM
For what it's worth, I'd prefer the VOTC, especially considering what we're getting from Evolutions in '08.

I'm with DA on this one.  I like a few of the Evo sets, but the vintage line was really one of my favorites.  I wish they were a little cheaper - some of the ones I picked up last time I paid full Target price of $12 for.  If they were closer to the $8-9 range, I think they'd sell a lot better.  I would at least like to have a complete bounty hunter set, but that's probably unlikely at this point. 
Title: Re: Let's discuss the future of the retro-vintage line.
Post by: Nicklab on December 23, 2007, 01:53 AM
I think Hasbro's response here is somewhat on the mark.  And believe me, I have LOVED the Vintage figure line.  But I tend to agree that the figure aesthetic has definitely improved since Vintage was introduced back in 2004, and the Basic Figure line of today looks much more like the vintage line but with less expensive packaging.

Still, I think I would like to see the Vintage line return in some kind of commemorative capacity.  We do have some significant anniversaries coming up that might be well commemorated with a one-off Vintage wave.

-2008 - 25th Anniversary of Return Of The Jedi
-2009 - 10th Anniversary of The Phantom Menace
-2010 - 30th Anniversary of The Empire Strikes Back
-2012 - 10th Anniversary of Attack Of The Clones
-2013 - 30th Anniversary of Return Of The Jedi
Title: Re: Let's discuss the future of the retro-vintage line.
Post by: Darth_Anton on December 23, 2007, 10:14 AM
Can't not disagree with Hasbro's Q&A response. After all, you can't get any more perfect than the A-Wing pilot this year. If they made a Vintage one, the only thing I can see them doing is changing the paint scheme and head.
Title: Re: Let's discuss the future of the retro-vintage line.
Post by: Darth Broem on December 23, 2007, 10:35 AM
Well I mainly liked the vintage line for the old packaging.  But it was tough to swallow $10-12 for figures that were the same as the $6-7 versions.  I have to agree with Hasbro's response as well. 
Title: Re: Let's discuss the future of the retro-vintage line.
Post by: Desfiy on December 23, 2007, 07:55 PM
Well to be honest, I havent paid full price for any of the Vintage Figures I have and I have most of them, the ones I dont have I dont want or I am waiting to see it for a cheaper price (Yoda and Snowtrooper), one of the benefits of being a loose collector, I can get the figure loose, as I have all the Vintage (Modern) Cardbacks.
Title: Re: Let's discuss the future of the retro-vintage line.
Post by: Morgbug on December 27, 2007, 12:21 PM
May I then assume that I will not see my Jawa nor my Death Squad Commander on these card backs?  Pity.  It won't influence my loose display as I can pull similar enough figures for that, but the lack of two of the original 12 backs really sort of leaves that nostalgic homage lacking. 
Title: Re: Let's discuss the future of the retro-vintage line.
Post by: CHEWIE on December 27, 2007, 12:29 PM
As much as I think the vintage line is overpriced, maybe they can do another round but without the plastic casings and sell them for $7.00 each? 

This would be similar to the new GI JOE figures... maybe then we could get them at the standard retail price for a basic figure and you could order carded clamshells online from Hasbro directly if you wanted them; or clamshell versions could be exclusive to www.hasbrotoyshop.com for $10.00 a pop.
Title: Re: Let's discuss the future of the retro-vintage line.
Post by: Desfiy on December 28, 2007, 02:10 AM
Sounds like a pretty cool idea, seeing I am an opener I wouldnt not getting the clamshell, and only paying 7.00 then maybes they could do the entire run from kenner that way.
Title: Re: Let's discuss the future of the retro-vintage line.
Post by: CHEWIE on December 28, 2007, 10:35 AM
Thanks Desfiy... glad you like the idea.  I think it would go over pretty well!  Imagine if in 2009, all OT characters were on vintage cards but priced the same as other figures?  I know Hasbro wants to keep the look of the line unified, but I think this would be awesome.
Title: Re: Let's discuss the future of the retro-vintage line.
Post by: JACKOFTRADZE on December 28, 2007, 11:22 AM
While the Evo sets look great & are a better value I hate to see this line go away forever, I really wanted to see more. I had no problem with the price and really liked this format. I guess I am one of the few who did not mind the $10 price tag because the vintage feel justified the price for me. They are the only figure I collect doubles of to keep one in the package. I have them all displayed and they look great.

 I really wanted to see some POTF style make their way into the line. There are plenty of interesting/appealing figures to cover in this format at least one solid wave worth. Here are a few:

ANH Walrus Man
ESB Han Bespin
ESB Hoth Rebel Trooper
ESB Hoth Leia (2 heads Hoth and Bespin)
ESB Zuckass
ROTJ AT-ST Driver
ROTJ Luke Jedi (With Removable Vest for Final Duel)
ROTJ Gammorean Guard
POTF Luke Stormtrooper with Short Legs
POTF Yakface

I am sure the evo sets will perform well, I was surprised to see them stop making them in the first place. I just wished the made the Emporeres skin pale grey on the rerelease.......
Title: Re: Let's discuss the future of the retro-vintage line.
Post by: Pete_Fett on December 29, 2007, 01:24 PM
I think Hasbro sees value in the Evolutions 3-pack concept since it allows them to bring characters in from the PT as well as sources like the comics and video games and that is why Vintage as we have known it is probably over. If there was going to be a year where they made re-creations of the POTF figures with coins, this would have been the year since the regular figures had coins too.

I think everyone really wants to see Vintage style treatment given to PT Obi-Wan and Padme Amidala and the vehicle for those is the Evolutions sets.

I could see them releasing a small 10th Anniversary tribute to The Phantom Menace in 2009. It would be similar in concept to the vintage line, but again, not the same since we're not talking about making new Kenner style card-backs of TPM characters. In this case the "retro" aspect would be that we're given the figures on the Darth Maul red Episode 1 cardbacks. I could see a VERY nice wave consisting of:

Anakin Skywalker
Jar Jar Binks
Battle Droid (SA, sturdy and can completely fold up like in the MTT racks)
Senator Palpatine
Obi-Wan Kenobi (an Evolutions set of Obi-Wan would probably leave this figure out)
C-3PO
Padme Amidala (Final Battle on Naboo)
Watto

While I doubt such a collection would ever be created (I'm sure they'd insist on releasing Darth Maul YET AGAIN), it would definitely be nice.
Title: Re: Let's discuss the future of the retro-vintage line.
Post by: Brian on March 25, 2008, 04:21 PM
I was just listening to the Star Wars Action News podcast, and at the 1:23:42 mark of the podcast they do their Hasbro Q and A sessions (they apparently had double this week).  The second question deals with the possibility of VOTC in 2009, and their answer gave some interesting news saying that they couldn't give exact news on the return of the VOTC line, but that when it does return it likely won't be called "VOTC" since it will likely encompass more than just the OTC.
Title: Re: Let's discuss the future of the retro-vintage line.
Post by: JACKOFTRADZE on March 25, 2008, 04:49 PM
Nice find Brian!
Personally, I do not get the appeal of PT characters on vintage style cards if they do in fact go that route down the road. Maybe I am a purest to this particular line but Vintage style releases should remain with vintage characters only. Just my opinion.
Title: Re: Let's discuss the future of the retro-vintage line.
Post by: Pete_Fett on March 25, 2008, 06:18 PM
Nice find Brian!
Personally, I do not get the appeal of PT characters on vintage style cards if they do in fact go that route down the road. Maybe I am a purest to this particular line but Vintage style releases should remain with vintage characters only. Just my opinion.

I agree - it seams just silly to release, say for example, Darth Maul on a card-back that is done in the style to match the old Kenner cardbacks from the 70s and 80s.

I think if they do this, they should re-release the figures on Card Backs that look like the Phantom Menace figures from 1999. Granted it's only 10 years old, but that's an eternity in terms of toys so doing something like that might even bring out 20-somethings who played with TPM figures when they were a kid.
Title: Re: Let's discuss the future of the retro-vintage line.
Post by: Matt_Fury on March 25, 2008, 06:21 PM
I could see it as a way of getting an SA ultimate version of an AOTC Obi-Wan without having to make an Evolutions pack.  Although I think it would be weird to put a PT figure in packaging that should be meant for remakes of vintage figures.

I think the popularity of the VOTC figures improved the quality of the basic line of figures....just look at Jesse's past reviews.  BTW, why no new reviews Jesse?  Yes I'm calling you out!   :D
Title: Re: Let's discuss the future of the retro-vintage line.
Post by: JediJman on March 26, 2008, 08:05 AM
Nice find Brian!
Personally, I do not get the appeal of PT characters on vintage style cards if they do in fact go that route down the road. Maybe I am a purest to this particular line but Vintage style releases should remain with vintage characters only. Just my opinion.

If they return to a vintage line, I agree - just redo vintage figs.  Personally, I think the quality of the basic figs has gone up the last few years, so I'd be fine with them just releasing new figs in these lines and saving a few bucks.   ;)
Title: Re: Let's discuss the future of the retro-vintage line.
Post by: Darth_Anton on March 26, 2008, 09:07 AM
With that update, it's time to start making a stink about those potential plans. If we start now, perhaps we could get the "return" back to being VOTC.
Title: Re: Let's discuss the future of the retro-vintage line.
Post by: Brian on May 12, 2008, 02:59 PM
Although recent indications from Hasbro's Q and A's made it sound like the VOTC/VTSC line might morph into something else, with one of the answers from this week's Q and A - maybe there is hope it might return:

(From Mousedroid): QUESTION:  Are there any plans to retool the Imperial Officer, Death Star Trooper, or AT-AT Driver? so they do not have those awkward looking swivel elbows? Or are these figures on a long term list to get the whole "SA treatment" sometime in the near future?

ANSWER:  Yes, we do have plans to update these guys within the to SA versions at some point. Imperial Officer would be first, in 2009. The AT-AT driver would come later and might be 2010. Death Star Trooper, though, is someone we might save for a Vintage line and probably wouldn't be in the mainline per se.

Hopefully that means a return of VTSC.  Although we've discussed that they can do that quality of figures in the regular line, I wouldn't mind seeing another wave or two on this nice vinty cardbacks.  Sounds like Death Star Trooper is a good possibility if they go that route.
Title: Re: Let's discuss the future of the retro-vintage line.
Post by: David on May 12, 2008, 03:47 PM
A grey version, of course. :)
Title: Re: Let's discuss the future of the retro-vintage line.
Post by: Darth_Anton on May 13, 2008, 09:12 AM
Good news for me. Interesting to see how far they have them planned already. Or should I say rather, interesting they're letting us know so far in advance.
Title: Re: Let's discuss the future of the retro-vintage line.
Post by: Brian on May 14, 2008, 03:55 PM
Interesting new list (http://www.rebelscum.com/story/front/Vintage_Rumor_List_For_The_Legacy_Collection_114603.asp) at RS, regarding possible future "vintage" figures for the Legacy Collection.  I guess this might belong in that forum now :).
Title: Re: Let's discuss the future of the retro-vintage line.
Post by: Jayson on May 14, 2008, 03:58 PM
Interesting new list (http://www.rebelscum.com/story/front/Vintage_Rumor_List_For_The_Legacy_Collection_114603.asp) at RS, regarding possible future "vintage" figures for the Legacy Collection.  I guess this might belong in that forum now :).

Yay, Prequel and EU in the "Vintage" line.  ::)
Title: Re: Let's discuss the future of the retro-vintage line.
Post by: clonebuyer111 on May 14, 2008, 07:30 PM
yes but a super articulated royal guard is very good
i cant wait to buy that
Title: Re: Let's discuss the future of the retro-vintage line.
Post by: Darth_Anton on May 15, 2008, 09:07 AM
Certainly some some stuff on tat list I can't wait for. But, I am perplexed by the stuff on the bottom. Makes me wonder if the source combined two different lists. There's also at lest one possible contradiction to a recent Q&A announcement - the Death Squad commander, which one could technically consider to be the same thing as the DS Trooper.
Title: Re: Let's discuss the future of the retro-vintage line.
Post by: ctonra on May 17, 2008, 08:42 AM
 While I welcome the thought of these figures, As a opener I hate paying more for packaging that I discard
Title: Re: Let's discuss the future of the retro-vintage line.
Post by: Darth_Anton on May 17, 2008, 10:03 AM
This brings up a good point. Although my carded collection is ending with the 30AC line, I'd probably keep this line going carded.
Title: Re: Let's discuss the future of the retro-vintage line.
Post by: iFett on May 17, 2008, 08:02 PM
yes but a super articulated royal guard is very good
i cant wait to buy that


What about an SA Jar-Jar?  I'd love to buy one and throw him in my toilet, complete with his "vintage" card    :-\

....I still can't figure out who the dumbass was who figured out that Jar-Jar would be a "hit" with the kiddies??  Papa George??  I'm pretty sure that the kiddos hate him as much as we do.


Title: Re: Let's discuss the future of the retro-vintage line.
Post by: JangoTat on May 17, 2008, 08:14 PM
yes but a super articulated royal guard is very good
i cant wait to buy that


What about an SA Jar-Jar?  I'd love to buy one and throw him in my toilet, complete with his "vintage" card    :-\

....I still can't figure out who the dumbass was who figured out that Jar-Jar would be a "hit" with the kiddies??  Papa George??  I'm pretty sure that the kiddos hate him as much as we do.




To tell you the truth I actually have my fingers crossed for a SA Jar-Jar. Hey may not have been the greatest character of all time but he certainly is not as bad as everyone says he is. Heck the way I see it he is basically the PT version of 3po in terms of comic relief.
Title: Re: Let's discuss the future of the retro-vintage line.
Post by: Morgbug on May 20, 2008, 02:11 PM
No.  Jar Jar is the PT version of the Ewoks gone horribly, terribly awry.  Lucas attempted to capture the cute/funny aspect that the Ewoks (supposedly) brought to ROTJ.  It failed miserably and JarJar was and always will be an abomination.  JarJar is the legacy of the Ewoks, plain and simple. 

Yay, Prequel and EU in the "Vintage" line.  ::)

That's the polite version of what was going through my mind.  There simply is no need to put EU/PT figs on "vintage" styled cardbacks.  They have no relationship to vintage figures at all. 

Hasbro has readily demonstrated they can put out 'VOTC' quality figures at a cheaper pricepoint on regular cardbacks (evolutions sandtrooper?) so what is the point of putting Darth Maul on a Kenner style cardback?  It's just a ridiculous concept in every aspect. 

I can barely begin to articulate how absurd the concept is.   >:(
Title: Re: Let's discuss the future of the retro-vintage line.
Post by: ctonra on May 20, 2008, 03:29 PM
I can't wait to get all of these SA figures on clearance.  I agree with everyone Hasbro has shown they can put out this quality figures in the basic line.  There is no need for them on a Vintage style card back at a higher price!
Title: Re: Let's discuss the future of the retro-vintage line.
Post by: Darth_Anton on May 21, 2008, 09:18 AM
There is no need for them on a Vintage style card back at a higher price!

Correct. They could put them out on a Vintage card for regular price. ;)
Title: Re: Let's discuss the future of the retro-vintage line.
Post by: ctonra on May 21, 2008, 03:50 PM
There is no need for them on a Vintage style card back at a higher price!

Correct. They could put them out on a Vintage card for regular price. ;)
They should do like the are doing for the Joe line
Title: Ideas for new Vintage-style Star Wars Figures
Post by: 77Skywalker on March 28, 2009, 08:01 PM
In this topic, we shall discuss what ideas we have for more vintage-style Star Wars figures.
Title: Re: Ideas for new Vintage-style Star Wars Figures
Post by: Nicklab on March 28, 2009, 08:25 PM
Hmmm.  Ideally, I'd like to see a wave of 4 figures per movie.  But all of the core characters from ANH have been covered, and I think it could make for a weak wave.

STAR WARS
Death Squad Commander
Jawa
Walrusman (Ponda Baba)
Power Droid

THE EMPIRE STRIKES BACK
Luke Skywalker - Hoth Battle Gear
Princess Leia Organa - Hoth Outfit
Han Solo - Bespin Gear
Imperial Commander

RETURN OF THE JEDI
The Emporer
AT-ST Driver
Luke Skywalker - Jedi Knight
Nien Nunb

POWER OF THE FORCE
Han Solo in Carbonite
Lando Calrissian - General
Imperial Dignitary - Sim Aloo
Barada
Title: Re: Ideas for new Vintage-style Star Wars Figures
Post by: Darth_Anton on March 28, 2009, 08:47 PM
Simply put, any that have not been done, and no PT figures.
Title: Re: Ideas for new Vintage-style Star Wars Figures
Post by: Phrubruh on March 28, 2009, 08:59 PM
What if they made prequal figure on vintage cards as if that was the style when the movies first came out?

(http://www.ffurg.com/gallery/albums/templates/vintage_premade/darthmaul_mc3po.jpg)
Title: Re: Ideas for new Vintage-style Star Wars Figures
Post by: David on March 28, 2009, 09:44 PM
STAR WARS

Death Squad Commander
Walrusman
Hammerhead
TIE Fighter Pilot

EMPIRE STRIKES BACK

Luke Skywalker - Hoth
Princess Leia - Hoth
Han Solo - Bespin
Zuckuss (the real Zuckuss, not 4-LOM)

RETURN OF THE JEDI

Admiral Ackbar
Nien Nunb
Rebel Commando
AT-ST Driver

POWER OF THE FORCE

Han Solo in Carbonite
General Lando Calrissian
Imperial Dignitary
Yakface

I also wouldn't mind seeing Grand Moff Tarkin in this format, even though he wasn't in the original vintage line.


NOTE: Although I doubt I'd be happy to see this line return, considering the basic figure price is insane enough. :-X
Title: Re: Ideas for new Vintage-style Star Wars Figures
Post by: 77Skywalker on March 28, 2009, 11:02 PM
Simply put, any that have not been done, and no PT figures.

Yes that's exactly what I mean.
Title: Re: Ideas for new Vintage-style Star Wars Figures
Post by: Darby on March 28, 2009, 11:29 PM
For me, if they do these again, it should be to give us a reason to spend $10 - or more likely now, $12 or $13 - for a figure I can get for $7/8.  And the only reason I would care would be if they did figures that were not included in the original vintage line:

Tarkin
Wedge
Slave Leia
Any variety of droid
Han Solo Stormtrooper


The problem with this of course is that these aren't exactly home run figures.  And in most cases we have them or are getting them.  I would rather see them rest the VOTC concept, actually.  Not only does the price not make sense, it cannibalizes the basic line.
Title: Re: Ideas for new Vintage-style Star Wars Figures
Post by: CHEWIE on March 28, 2009, 11:55 PM
As an opener, no thanks.  I don't need to shell out another $3 or $5 for this.  And I think a lot of people feel this way too, considering how the last wave ended up on mass clearance except for the Snowtrooper.

I mean, who wants to pay $10 or $13 for a Jawa, when you can get one with a big WED droid for $7.46?  Paying more than that for a single little figure is just not something I'd go for.

But, if they were to put them on these cards at the regular figure price, sure.  But not at a premium price.  The basic figures are basically around VOTC quality these days anyway.

Title: Re: Let's discuss the future of the retro-vintage line.
Post by: stan on March 29, 2009, 01:43 PM
Hasbro are seriously looking at it now. When (hopefully at the end of 2010) this does make a return; it will be at standard retail price.  All including the prequal will be in the black and silver format.
Title: Re: Let's discuss the future of the retro-vintage line.
Post by: Paul on March 29, 2009, 10:56 PM
I'll go with Nicklab's list for sure.

Charge me a couple extra bucks for some OT Nostaligic goodness and keep the PT and CW out....

Sadly, I feel it is the only way we will get certain OT characters as Hasbro tries to push as much PT and CW stuff as they can (and rightfully so, they have a hit show to support)
Title: Re: Let's discuss the future of the retro-vintage line.
Post by: Morgbug on March 30, 2009, 02:21 AM
Finish out the original 12 figures (the 12 backs, duh) and then I could give a rat's ass about what they produce because I doubt I'd be buying more. 

STAR WARS
TIE Fighter Pilot


Ok, I lied.  I'd give a rat's ass about a figure being released on a cardback it never came out on.
Title: Re: Let's discuss the future of the retro-vintage line.
Post by: Jesse James on March 30, 2009, 02:31 AM
I'd rather not get charged extra, for any of this, as figures are too expensive now by my standards...  If they're regular/basic figure prices and just on spiffy cards (for whatever reason Hasbro would do this), I'm ok with almost any vintage figure that hasn't been done, and I'd be ok with seeing Endor Han resculpted actually (yeah, seriously). 

That said, the only weirdness I wouldn't mind is classic trilogy characters not seen in the line, but thought of/mocked up.  Fleet Trooper obviously, Tarkin, Dr. Evazan, Biggs, Wedge, and so forth.

But...  I really would rather not see any "premium" figure line again.  Evolutions rock, and I feel they're a better format overall.  The vintage figures were neat, but at this stage the basic line should deliver all the "premium" figure you need or deserve, as they're priced high enough to warrant nothing less to me at this point.  It's a dickjob when you get a figure lacking something in the basic line at this stage.
Title: Re: Let's discuss the future of the retro-vintage line.
Post by: Brian on March 30, 2009, 09:34 AM
Yeah, it is tough for me to know what I want for the future of the VOTC/VTSC line.  Although they are probably my favorite overall "line" of figures in the modern era - with, for the most part, exceptions sculpts/articulation and the nifty vintage cardbacks - at the same time I echo the thoughts here of the prices being high enough already.  Plus, we pretty much get "VOTC quality" in the basic line at this point anyways.  Heck, the Obi-Wan from the latest TLC wave (which I think was slated for the Evolutions line), is a near perfect figure, and much better than the previous VOTC version.

If they made more (at least in the same format), I'd buy them - but I'd be ok with what the collection is at this point too.  Like others have said, we'd likely be looking at $13 figures (or more) with today's prices, and it is tough enough paying $8 for the basic line.  I'm just a sucker for the vintage cardbacks and look.  I'm not a carded collector, but that is one line that I picked up an extra carded set for just because they look nice all together I think.

It seems like Hasbro has mentioned in the past that if/when this line comes back it will likely contain all the movies, and will probably be a little bit different than what we are used to.  I think it has been discussed before, but the OT probably has enough "big guns" that haven't been hit yet (Hoth Luke, Bespin Han, etc.) that they could realistically get another one or two waves out of this concept and still have hopes of selling them at the higher prices.  Overall though, like I said I'd definitely pick them up - but if it ends with the group we have, that is ok too.  I always thought they would be a good format if/when the line starts drying up (which doesn't seem real likely now with the TV opportunities), and they went much more limited or online only.  I could picture something like the MOTU Classics line (except hopefully not as highly priced) where you could buy 3-4 VOTC styled figure each month from HTS.  It probably wouldn't be ideal for everyone, but I could see that sort of avenue for "premium" figures - which is what VOTC was originally supposed to be.  The same can be said for Evolutions, which sounds like it will also be "on hiatus" after this year.  I will say that Hasbro has really stepped up on the recent basic figures (at least for the most part) to the point where many of the figures are "vintage" quality now anyways.
Title: Re: Let's discuss the future of the retro-vintage line.
Post by: Darth_Anton on March 30, 2009, 10:31 AM
Finish out the original 12 figures (the 12 backs, duh) and then I could give a rat's ass about what they produce because I doubt I'd be buying more. 


Same here. Even a re-release of the Stormtrooper.
Title: Re: Let's discuss the future of the retro-vintage line.
Post by: Daigo-Bah on March 30, 2009, 03:08 PM

 I could picture something like the MOTU Classics line (except hopefully not as highly priced) where you could buy 3-4 VOTC styled figure each month from HTS.  It probably wouldn't be ideal for everyone, but I could see that sort of avenue for "premium" figures - which is what VOTC was originally supposed to be. 

I like that idea, too, but what scares me about the Hasbro mindset is that if it isn't supported greatly by retail stores, they dump it.  Look at IJ: the TOD wave could easily have been offered in great quantity online (from Hasbro) for the collector interest, but they had a hissy fit since the line itself didn't sell that well, and pulled out of production of the line.
Title: Re: Let's discuss the future of the retro-vintage line.
Post by: speedermike on March 30, 2009, 10:21 PM
I think that Hasbro ( or Star Wars Shop) didn't pick up the TOD line because if the horrible case assortment.  They would have been sitting on tons of earlier figures while everyone ordered the TOD figs.  The case was 6 new figures, and 6 old figures.
Title: Re: Let's discuss the future of the retro-vintage line.
Post by: Darth_Anton on March 31, 2009, 10:14 AM
Hasbro and horrible case assortments? That's odd.  ::)
Title: Re: Let's discuss the future of the retro-vintage line.
Post by: Jim on April 2, 2009, 11:47 PM
Not sure if anyone remembers a Q&A from Hasbro, probably 2-3 years ago now.  They said that that when, and if the Retro line returns, that they would follow suit with Joe and have the non bubble cased cards to keep costs down and that there was a very good chance some older figs that they believe were ultimate versions would be re-released (R5-D4, Luke Endor, comes to mind).  Hopefully they recard the new Ben Kenobi and Endor C-3PO.  With all the new planned figs coming out in the next 3 years they pretty much can finalize all 97 figs minus a handful (Walrusman, Anakin, Bespin Security, Hoth Luke, Hoth Leia, Bespin Han, Zuckuss, Weequay, Nien Nunb, Gam Guard, A few more Ewoks, Ree-Yees, Dignitary. Recard, repaint, add soft goods and recard figs like Comic Pack Amanamin, Death Star Trooper (Repaint to Death Squad Commander), ROTS Royal Guard, General Calrissian, Squidhead, etc.  I'm sure they will tie up all the Retro stuff.  And for a mail in promo how about a vintage 3-pack boxed Max Rebo Band. There is still "9" years left on the license. 
Title: Re: Let's discuss the future of the retro-vintage line.
Post by: David on April 3, 2009, 11:38 AM
And for a mail in promo how about a vintage 3-pack boxed Max Rebo Band.

That is an awesome idea!
Title: Re: Let's discuss the future of the retro-vintage line.
Post by: evenflow on April 3, 2009, 01:54 PM
And for a mail in promo how about a vintage 3-pack boxed Max Rebo Band.

That is an awesome idea!

Great way to get a vintage Sy Snootles!
Title: Re: Let's discuss the future of the retro-vintage line.
Post by: Darth_Anton on April 4, 2009, 10:54 AM
I like that idea too.
Title: Re: Let's discuss the future of the retro-vintage line.
Post by: Nicklab on April 4, 2009, 01:31 PM
I'd just like to see some of the classic mail-aways done.  Getting your proof of purchase's together to mail away for Admiral Ackbar, Nein Nunb, the Emporer and 4-LOM (Zuckuss) was one of the coolest parts of the vintage line.
Title: Re: Let's discuss the future of the retro-vintage line.
Post by: Brian on April 4, 2009, 05:39 PM
Not sure if anyone remembers a Q&A from Hasbro, probably 2-3 years ago now.  They said that that when, and if the Retro line returns, that they would follow suit with Joe and have the non bubble cased cards to keep costs down and that there was a very good chance some older figs that they believe were ultimate versions would be re-released (R5-D4, Luke Endor, comes to mind).  Hopefully they recard the new Ben Kenobi and Endor C-3PO.  With all the new planned figs coming out in the next 3 years they pretty much can finalize all 97 figs minus a handful (Walrusman, Anakin, Bespin Security, Hoth Luke, Hoth Leia, Bespin Han, Zuckuss, Weequay, Nien Nunb, Gam Guard, A few more Ewoks, Ree-Yees, Dignitary. Recard, repaint, add soft goods and recard figs like Comic Pack Amanamin, Death Star Trooper (Repaint to Death Squad Commander), ROTS Royal Guard, General Calrissian, Squidhead, etc.  I'm sure they will tie up all the Retro stuff.  And for a mail in promo how about a vintage 3-pack boxed Max Rebo Band. There is still "9" years left on the license. 

I do remember something about that from the Hasbro Q and A's.  Not a bad idea.  I think the majority of people here were fine with losing the clamshell if it meant saving a few bucks anyways.  It was the cardback that sold me (and many others I think) on the line - along with some very nice figures of course.  Like you said, it would be very much like the 25th Joes line - and that would be pretty cool.  I'd personally be ok with them re-releasing some of the other near perfect figures (VOTC Han, EB/VOTC Chewie, TLC Obi-Wan, Evolutions Vader, etc.) that we've gotten over the years alongside some of the unmade figures you mentioned.  The mail in promo is a great idea as well.  Although sometimes the shipping has been a bit high on some of the recent ones, I've really enjoyed that Hasbro has embraced the mail away with SW (as well as Indy/Joes/etc.) and I hope that it continues.
Title: Re: Ideas for new Vintage-style Star Wars Figures
Post by: 77Skywalker on April 10, 2009, 09:16 AM
Hmmm.  Ideally, I'd like to see a wave of 4 figures per movie.  But all of the core characters from ANH have been covered, and I think it could make for a weak wave.

STAR WARS
Death Squad Commander
Jawa
Walrusman (Ponda Baba)
Power Droid

THE EMPIRE STRIKES BACK
Luke Skywalker - Hoth Battle Gear
Princess Leia Organa - Hoth Outfit
Han Solo - Bespin Gear
Imperial Commander

RETURN OF THE JEDI
The Emporer
AT-ST Driver
Luke Skywalker - Jedi Knight
Nien Nunb

POWER OF THE FORCE
Han Solo in Carbonite
Lando Calrissian - General
Imperial Dignitary - Sim Aloo
Barada

A vintage-style Luke Skywalker (Jedi Knight) sounds like a good idea.
Title: Re: Let's discuss the future of the retro-vintage line.
Post by: Darth_Anton on April 10, 2009, 10:37 AM
Good idea? Good is an understatement. That's a figure that has been over due since SA SW figures became a reality.
Title: Re: Let's discuss the future of the retro-vintage line.
Post by: David on April 10, 2009, 10:43 AM
Well we have one coming in the RotJ wave later this year. ;D

Of course, they'll find a way to mess it up somehow (soft goods, facial expression, etc.). :-\
Title: Re: Ideas for new Vintage-style Star Wars Figures
Post by: evenflow on April 10, 2009, 02:09 PM
Hmmm.  Ideally, I'd like to see a wave of 4 figures per movie.  But all of the core characters from ANH have been covered, and I think it could make for a weak wave.

STAR WARS
Death Squad Commander
Jawa
Walrusman (Ponda Baba)
Power Droid

THE EMPIRE STRIKES BACK
Luke Skywalker - Hoth Battle Gear
Princess Leia Organa - Hoth Outfit
Han Solo - Bespin Gear
Imperial Commander

RETURN OF THE JEDI
The Emporer
AT-ST Driver
Luke Skywalker - Jedi Knight
Nien Nunb

POWER OF THE FORCE
Han Solo in Carbonite
Lando Calrissian - General
Imperial Dignitary - Sim Aloo
Barada

A vintage-style Luke Skywalker (Jedi Knight) sounds like a good idea.

I like most of that list but would change the POTF to include Anakin and Yakface. Would be a nice way to get the vintage versions.

I am in the minority here but would love a wave of Droids and Ewoks as well...Vlix included of course.
Title: Re: Let's discuss the future of the retro-vintage line.
Post by: EpicGon on April 10, 2009, 02:35 PM
retro vintage wishlist

Star Wars

Jawas
Death Squad Commander
 

ESB

Luke hoth battle gear
Leia Hoth
Imperial commander
tie fighter pilot

ROTJ

Jedi Luke
gamorrean guard
Anakin (shaw head)
emperor royal guard
Title: Re: Let's discuss the future of the retro-vintage line.
Post by: Matt on June 17, 2009, 11:25 AM
Quote
You have said in the past that if the vintage style cardbacks ever return, they would also be used for prequel and EU figures. Do you think that these will ever become a reality? Have any concepts ever been created of what a vintage style card for a prequel film character would look like? If so, would you be able to share a picture? (SWC, 2009-06-12)

     We actually have not created a vintage style card for a prequel character, but can indeed confirm that this is the agreed direction should Vintage ever return. While there is no mock-up, we think that the cards would look spectacular, as if the Vintage line had never stopped. It's an intriguing and powerful concept, and one we hope to be able to get to when the time is right.

Discuss.
Title: Re: Let's discuss the future of the retro-vintage line.
Post by: Brian on June 17, 2009, 11:31 AM
I heard that comment, as well as another response to a Q and A (it may have been on SWAN, I don't remember) that mentioned a way to "reinvigorate" collectors in 2010 (that would be shown at next year's Toy Fair).  It may be a leap, but I'm wondering if the Legacy-styled line might go to all "vintage style" cardbacks - to appeal to the "collector".  We've had the discussions before on whether or not prequel/EU characters should be on those cardbacks, and I'm still not sure how I feel - although I will say that the vintage cardbacks, with the nice big pic, are by far my favorite in the line's entire run.  Easy to spot what you're looking for, and nice and nostalgic as well.
Title: Re: Let's discuss the future of the retro-vintage line.
Post by: David on June 17, 2009, 11:42 AM
I just hope if this line returns they get rid of the plastic cases that somehow cost an extra $5-6. ::)
Title: Re: Let's discuss the future of the retro-vintage line.
Post by: Brian on June 17, 2009, 11:50 AM
Yeah, I don't see why they couldn't just use the G.I. Joe 25th Anniversary line as a model.  New, super articulated figures on a vintage-esque cardback.
Title: Re: Let's discuss the future of the retro-vintage line.
Post by: Greedo The Green Menace on June 17, 2009, 12:13 PM
While vintage style cards would be nicer looking on the shelves, it doesn't make much difference to me since I just tear open all the packaging anyway.
Title: Re: Let's discuss the future of the retro-vintage line.
Post by: Nicklab on June 17, 2009, 01:52 PM
RTM Q&A - May 22nd, 2009 - RE: Vintage Death Squad Commander (http://www.toymania.com/news/messages/11230.shtml)

Quote
QUESTION:   Are there plans to re-release the recent Death Star Trooper figure as a repaint of the vintage Death Squad Commander/Star Destroyer Commander figure?

ANSWER:  We are saving that one for a possible re-release should we ever relaunch the Vintage line. With the nostalgic package, it would make the most sense.

It's an "IF" if I ever saw one.  But a decent one for fans of the vintage Death Squad Commander.
Title: Re: Let's discuss the future of the retro-vintage line.
Post by: CHEWIE on June 17, 2009, 02:12 PM
I just hope if this line returns they get rid of the plastic cases that somehow cost an extra $5-6. ::)

Agreed. 
Title: Re: Let's discuss the future of the retro-vintage line.
Post by: JACKOFTRADZE on June 17, 2009, 03:51 PM
I just hope if this line returns they get rid of the plastic cases that somehow cost an extra $5-6. ::)

Agreed. 

My only beef with that is consistency. The only extra figures I have packaged are every VOTC figure. I guess I can always open them and keep them carded to match. I have no interest in doubles of prequel figures but if that's what it takes to get this line out again I'm all for it. especially if we get the Ultimate editions for Prequel figures. Maybe just maybe we can get a blue Jango as opposed the purposely purple Evo Jango we have now when they had the correct color before. even my Brother commented on why Jango was purple, he is not even a SW fan.

VOTC cards would be 40 times better than the new packaging we have now.
Title: Re: Let's discuss the future of the retro-vintage line.
Post by: CHEWIE on June 17, 2009, 06:49 PM
Hell, as far as I'm concerned they can do a "Vintage Legends" line and reissue all the VOTC type figures without the clamshells for $7.49 or whatever, and have the rest of the realistic line follow suit at some point. 

Not that I care though, I'm an opener and always will be.
Title: Re: Let's discuss the future of the retro-vintage line.
Post by: Rob on June 17, 2009, 06:57 PM
I think half of the reason they do the clamshells is to prevent theft.  They can't wrap and tape the bubbles to the cards for a vintage package the way they've been doing since ROTS hit a few years ago.
Title: Re: Let's discuss the future of the retro-vintage line.
Post by: JACKOFTRADZE on June 17, 2009, 10:46 PM
If there is no sticker mail away coupon theft should not be an issues this time round. If there is they can put it behind the figure in the blister.
Title: Re: Let's discuss the future of the retro-vintage line.
Post by: Rob on June 18, 2009, 12:11 AM
I don't mean theft of the stickers, I mean of the whole figures.  Those little vintage-style bubbles pop right off.  You practically need the jaws of life to open a regular Saga figure.
Title: Re: Let's discuss the future of the retro-vintage line.
Post by: Jesse James on June 18, 2009, 12:48 AM
If this is not seeing a pricehike, fine I guess.  I ultimately don't care...  Like CHEWIE said about the clamshell and things.  As it stands I think $7.50 is too damn much for SW figures, by a pretty big margin (I thought $6.99 was as well).  If they're doing $10 figures again, or more, then forget it.  I think I'll pass on anything but OT figures, and I'll buy those begrudgingly.

If it's $7.50 figures on retro cards, I'm fine with that.
Title: Re: Let's discuss the future of the retro-vintage line.
Post by: Force Guy on June 18, 2009, 01:16 AM
You practically need the jaws of life to open a regular Saga figure.

Sure, but that doesn't seem to bother shoplifters, at least in my area. 
Title: Re: Let's discuss the future of the retro-vintage line.
Post by: Darth_Anton on June 18, 2009, 10:17 AM
RTM Q&A - May 22nd, 2009 - RE: Vintage Death Squad Commander (http://www.toymania.com/news/messages/11230.shtml)

Quote
QUESTION:   Are there plans to re-release the recent Death Star Trooper figure as a repaint of the vintage Death Squad Commander/Star Destroyer Commander figure?

ANSWER:  We are saving that one for a possible re-release should we ever relaunch the Vintage line. With the nostalgic package, it would make the most sense.



I dunno. I'd be willing to bet that we could see this guy in a re-paint wave.

It's an "IF" if I ever saw one.  But a decent one for fans of the vintage Death Squad Commander.
Title: Re: Let's discuss the future of the retro-vintage line.
Post by: Daigo-Bah on June 18, 2009, 02:20 PM
I think expecting less than $10 for a retro card wave is a pipe dream, personally.  I absolutely agree it's too much, but that doesn't mean Hasbro won't do it.  They seem to love their extra lines being more costly than the standard figures.  Not to mention the default answer of "we don't control the price, that's a retailer decision."  Right.  ::)
Title: Re: Let's discuss the future of the retro-vintage line.
Post by: Jesse James on June 18, 2009, 04:47 PM
I think the expectation of them being less than $10 is more with the thought that they're replacing the basic line, not being a special sub-line like they were before...  Basically just a cardback change from whatever (red/white?) to vintage-esque like the GI Joe 25th Anniversary figures.
Title: Re: Let's discuss the future of the retro-vintage line.
Post by: iFett on June 18, 2009, 05:01 PM
Wouldn't they be more like $12-$14 if vintage ever came back out?  Makes sense from Hasbro's perspective me thinks...
Title: Re: Let's discuss the future of the retro-vintage line.
Post by: JACKOFTRADZE on June 18, 2009, 05:18 PM
Wouldn't they be more like $12-$14 if vintage ever came back out?  Makes sense from Hasbro's perspective me thinks...

I think that will be a tough sell even for Hasbro. With articulation in the regular line to a VOTC level and no droid part included charging more will be a really tough sell to retailers. I can see this on it's own peg as a sub brand. Part of the clamshell was to give a premium feel to justify the price.

No matter what, I can honestly say I can put aside all logic on this series and  not mind getting my wallet raped. The card art is worth a lot to me. I prefer the clamshell as I pointed out earlier. It will make store placement easier to justify the space. They can charge $10 a pop, a slight premium that most would not balk at as long as the clamshell is there. No clamshell $8 Joe 25th style.
Title: Re: Let's discuss the future of the retro-vintage line.
Post by: ruiner on June 18, 2009, 05:33 PM
You guys are high if you think the vintage line will come back at $10.
Title: Re: Let's discuss the future of the retro-vintage line.
Post by: Jesse James on June 18, 2009, 06:09 PM
Yeah there's little chance of that...  I think what maybe they're considering is vintage cardbacks at the regular price, not a "deluxe" line.  I think that's what all the hubbub is around it.  I think the vintage expensive or "deluxe" concept is sort of dead and they know it.  Some WM's near me still have vintage figures.
Title: Re: Let's discuss the future of the retro-vintage line.
Post by: JACKOFTRADZE on June 18, 2009, 06:29 PM
You guys are high if you think the vintage line will come back at $10.

Not necessarily, less maybe more I highly doubt. Given the slowdown in the Legacy line, Collector interest, No clam shell, equivalent articulation in the current lines, no droid part/pack in and economic market conditions a $9.99 price point is not out of the question for better/worse. I work in the toy industry and can tell you for a fact that given the above factors retailers will be a little reluctant if they do not see the value of taking away shelf space to a more profitable SKU. They also need a incentive reason to make room for bigger cards that take up too much space.

Several retailers (WM/Target) are consolidating shelf space dictating new blister/package requirements going forward. In essence they are trying to cram more product in there to maximize the aisle space. The new smaller Marvel size cards is not only Hasbro cutting costs but a purposely intended revision to increase productivity in their planogram space which was retailer mandated. The smaller cards allow for more merchandise to be placed on the shelf, less inventory stored in the back and more room for other product lines to have the most return for the aisle.

With that said the VOTC style cards are much larger and are almost double the size of the new card. The retailer has to be convinced that if he is going to give up valuable space for less product, that product better be unique and have the value to move a lot of units to make up for the loss.

Given the factors I provided and the reality of the aisle $9.99 is not unreasonable to compensate for the large cards. You are actually getting less for your money but paying more for the novelty so retailers make a little more justifying the extra space provided and the consumer pays more for the nostalgia - both win. If it's a bare bones card a $2 premium is not a ridiculous stretch to it's perceived value. It it get's too expensive retailers will be very cautious into what they think their consumer will pay. If it's too cheap they will not bite as they will lose money on the space. A reasonably priced premium will give the retailer a bigger profit margin than the normal SW figure without overpricing the item thus justifying the space that's needed for them over the regular product. And we get the VOTC continued, not a bad trade off for both I would say.

So $9.99 is not out of the question whatsoever.
Title: Re: Let's discuss the future of the retro-vintage line.
Post by: ruiner on June 19, 2009, 12:00 AM
I don't see how they could bring back the vintage line without a clamshell.  Basically the only difference between the Legacy line and the Vintage would be package graphics - is that worth an extra 25% to the consumer? 

Would WM or Target even want to carry a collector driven line considering the state of the hobby as it relates to collector interest right now?  If I were a retailer / buyer, I'd be looking for more Clone Wars product because A.) it's selling and B.) it has TV support every week.

I think it's clear where Hasbro's priorities are - look at the new skus coming out - deluxe CW sku, CW 2 pack, etc.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that IF (and that's a big if) the Vintage line were to come back, it would be primarily specialty / online exclusive and would be closer to $13-15 because of the smaller runs.

I really don't think mass retail could (would) support it right now (or anytime soon) based upon the comments coming from the Hasbro team. . .
Title: Re: Let's discuss the future of the retro-vintage line.
Post by: Brian on June 19, 2009, 09:38 AM
Yeah there's little chance of that...  I think what maybe they're considering is vintage cardbacks at the regular price, not a "deluxe" line.  I think that's what all the hubbub is around it.  I think the vintage expensive or "deluxe" concept is sort of dead and they know it.  Some WM's near me still have vintage figures.

I sort of think this might be what Hasbro is thinking about too.  Once there is another cardback/line change, the current "Legacy" line will be on vintage or vintage-like cardbacks - with the Clone Wars having their own sort of cardback.  Arguments against PT or EU figures on those cardbacks aside, I wouldn't mind seeing those vintage cards hanging from the pegs again.  I enjoyed it with the 25th Joe line (and previous VOTC/VTSC lines), and I think it could look nice (particularly for the OT figures).  If they want to provide clamshells through HTS for those that want a "uniform" look, that's fine.  I think it is either that or they would have to be an online-only type thing like MOTU Classics.  From the last couple rounds, I don't know if $10 (likely now $13 or more) vintage carded figures could make it at retail.  Especially with Hasbro telling us how the collectors are leaving and things are getting more geared towards CW/kiddos.
Title: Re: Let's discuss the future of the retro-vintage line.
Post by: Darth_Anton on June 19, 2009, 10:26 AM
RTM Q&A - May 22nd, 2009 - RE: Vintage Death Squad Commander (http://www.toymania.com/news/messages/11230.shtml)

Quote
QUESTION:   Are there plans to re-release the recent Death Star Trooper figure as a repaint of the vintage Death Squad Commander/Star Destroyer Commander figure?

ANSWER:  We are saving that one for a possible re-release should we ever relaunch the Vintage line. With the nostalgic package, it would make the most sense.



I dunno. I'd be willing to bet that we could see this guy in a re-paint wave.

It's an "IF" if I ever saw one.  But a decent one for fans of the vintage Death Squad Commander.

Quick note for those who really want a grey DST, it takes a little work on the neck joint, but you can take the DST head (and Helmet) and stick it on the Captain Needa body.
Title: Re: Let's discuss the future of the retro-vintage line.
Post by: JACKOFTRADZE on June 19, 2009, 02:19 PM
I don't see how they could bring back the vintage line without a clamshell.  Basically the only difference between the Legacy line and the Vintage would be package graphics - is that worth an extra 25% to the consumer? 

Would WM or Target even want to carry a collector driven line considering the state of the hobby as it relates to collector interest right now?  If I were a retailer / buyer, I'd be looking for more Clone Wars product because A.) it's selling and B.) it has TV support every week.

I think it's clear where Hasbro's priorities are - look at the new skus coming out - deluxe CW sku, CW 2 pack, etc.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that IF (and that's a big if) the Vintage line were to come back, it would be primarily specialty / online exclusive and would be closer to $13-15 because of the smaller runs.

I really don't think mass retail could (would) support it right now (or anytime soon) based upon the comments coming from the Hasbro team.

I can totally agree with that scenario, I actually prefer yours, I do not mind paying the premium. I just do not see Hasbro going that way unless it's like Hall of Heroes with reused/redecos (Death Squad commander, Blue Evo Jango, Evo Boba in ROTJ colors, etc). They could not pay new tooling back right away, if they were able to get some in there it would most likely be minimal. If it's now and mass retail scenario I do not see how they can pull it off outside of what I stated.

Any scenario would be welcomed to me. I'll buy - doubles and many more of army builders.
Title: Re: Let's discuss the future of the retro-vintage line.
Post by: Diddly on June 19, 2009, 06:08 PM
Personally, I don't want to see the return of the Vintage line. Remember how they were all supposed to be "special, unique, once in a lifetime" purchases? I think the only figures that have yet to be rereleased in some form are the Endor Leia and Bespin Luke, but they were meh at best. If we end up getting more Vintage figs, I'll just wait a year and snag them when the newest set of Saga Legends starts to clog the pegs.
Title: Re: Let's discuss the future of the retro-vintage line.
Post by: Darby on June 19, 2009, 09:41 PM
If vintage returns at the previous price point, I won't buy them.  I wouldn't mind the card style in the basic line (or even some variation of it) but I won't pay $10-12 for a figure in a plastic bubble I'm throwing away.
Title: Re: Let's discuss the future of the retro-vintage line.
Post by: Jesse James on June 19, 2009, 11:04 PM
Exactly...  There's nothing "premium" there anymore, and the clamshell is lame to the extreme, so just abandon the concept all together.  Run things on "vintage style" cards in the collector-focused line.  I could see Hasbro doing this given the things they've said lately.  It would definitely separate (visually) the Clone Wars, Legends, and Legacy lines a good bit...  At the basic price, fine.  I don't care if the bubbles are different and attached tot he cards better and things...  As long as that price stays in the $7.99 or less range, and even then I'm not pleased at $7.99.  Just it's what we're stuck with for the time being.
Title: Re: Let's discuss the future of the retro-vintage line.
Post by: Brian on June 20, 2009, 12:16 PM
I agree with Jesse (and others).  If this concept is going to return, I'd just as soon they just take it to the regular line as well.  As much as I love the original VOTC and VTSC figures (the only ones really that I have kept carded), and would like for it to continue - I think at this point prices are high enough and none of us really care about the clamshell either.  The quality of figures in the basic line has risen to the levels of what VOTC originally brought us anyways, so the only thing making it "special" is apparently a $3 plastic clamshell.

I also think we may be seeing the "legacy" (or whatever it is called) line being on vintage-ish cardbacks.  I don't know if they'll do straight vintage (with so many complaints about putting the PT characters on vintage cards, maybe they should make them a bit different) - but they could be similar and really focus on collectors.  Then, make the Clone Wars line totally visually different (something bright and blocky like they are doing later this year) and you could really spot the difference at retail.  They're essentially catering to two seperate groups I guess then, but they are now for the most part anyways.  I'm not one that generally cares about packaging too much (although I love the vintage packaging, and kept a carded set there - and also liked the OTC packaging too) - but I think the current Legacy/CW stuff is some of my least favorite of the modern line.  It just seems so boring, and doesn't look "clean" to me.  Anyways, off topic now, but I think just making it the basic "realistic" line might be the way to go.  The only other option would be via HTS only (similar to MOTU Classics), but then we're likely looking at $15 figures.  The last couple rounds of VTSC figures had troubles at retail at $10, so I don't know how many collectors would be paying that much this time around.
Title: Re: Let's discuss the future of the retro-vintage line.
Post by: 77Skywalker on July 3, 2009, 07:36 PM
My Ideas

ANH

Grand Moff Tarkin
Wedge
General Dodonna
TIE Fighter Pilot

ESB

Zuckuss
Dengar
Admiral Piett
Lobot

ROTJ

Luke Skywalker - Jedi Knight
Emperor Palpatine
Moff Jerjerrod
Lando Calrissian - Skiff Guard
Title: Re: Let's discuss the future of the retro-vintage line.
Post by: Darby on July 3, 2009, 08:50 PM
Because I'm bored and have nothing going on right now, I'll throw in my two cents on what a nice neo-vintage line would look like.  Again, this would primarily focus on characters who never saw action in the vintage line:

TPM:
Darth Maul
Obi Wan Kenobi
Qui-Gon Jinn
Queen Amidala

AOTC:
Anakin Skywalker
Count Dooku
Jango Fett
Mace Windu

ROTS:
General Grievous
Darth Sidious Senate Duel
Clone Trooper
Wookie Warrior

ANH:
Wedge Antilles
Grand Moff Tarkin
Cantina Band Member
Han Solo in Stormtrooper Disguise

ESB:
Luke Skywalker Snowspeeder

ROTJ:
Slave Leia

I know I'm forgetting some, but this is just ones I'd like to see.

Title: Vintage-Design EU Figures
Post by: Jabba the Slug on August 19, 2009, 02:09 AM
There have been a lot (A LOT  :o) of rumors that Hasbro would do the Vintage design (VTSC, VTAC) for outside-OT characters (TPM, AOTC, ROTS, EU). How would these figures do? And what would they be? Would this be a good idea for Hasbro? A SA Darth Maul on a reprint of TPM card? Heck, figures thse days certainly have equal value now to the Vintage-designed figures, but would collectors buy these otherwise new figures?  ???
Title: Re: Let's discuss the future of the retro-vintage line.
Post by: Darth_Anton on August 19, 2009, 11:07 AM
I'm against Vintage designs for any character that wasn't one of the original 93. I'm nostalgic like that. That said, any of those 93 characters I'll buy in a heart beat.
Title: Re: Let's discuss the future of the retro-vintage line.
Post by: Brian on August 19, 2009, 11:43 AM
With the rumors going around lately, it really sounds like the "regular" line (TLC now) might be going to more vintage-esque cardbacks next year.  Nothing confirmed yet, but it seems like there is a lot of rumbling lately.  Even though prequel figures would be included, I do think this sort of design would be a pretty big hit with the fans.  I was always more on the side of "OT only" characters, if they continued with the VOTC/VTSC line, but if they make the cards vintage-similar (say like, the 25th Joe cardbacks), I have to admit it would make for a pretty cool collection overall.  Plus, I just like cardbacks with a great big picture of the character, like the vinty days.  I've never been a big fan of the "insert pic" type of packaging, like the current TLC/CW lines have.
Title: Re: Let's discuss the future of the retro-vintage line.
Post by: darthjaybay on August 19, 2009, 03:21 PM
If this happens, looks like i will have to go back to buying two of each figure, one to keep carded and one loose!  Its been A LONG time since I have done that!!!

I cant imagine how cool it would be to see those card backs on the shelves again (without that plastic bubble in the VOTC collection). It will be a trip to see anakin, clone troopers and prequal obi wan on these cards, but I think that is a good thing... it brings the entire line full circle!  Hope Hasbro models the back of the card like the old vintage line as well, with ALL the figures shown.

Fingers crossed this happens!
Title: Re: Let's discuss the future of the retro-vintage line.
Post by: iFett on August 19, 2009, 04:00 PM
I dunno...Not really sure what to think about prequel characters on OT cardbacks, but this might get me back into carded collecting again if it pans out to be true.  The helmets were passable, but I just can't stand the look of the new cards.
Title: Re: Let's discuss the future of the retro-vintage line.
Post by: GrandMoffNick on August 19, 2009, 04:02 PM
I love the idea of having a Darth Maul, etc. on a vintage looking card. I have no problem with it at all.
Title: Re: Let's discuss the future of the retro-vintage line.
Post by: Rob on August 19, 2009, 04:09 PM
I'm a purist.  The vintage card for EI looks like this:

(http://www.brianstoys.com/store/images/products/Star%20Wars/EP1/ActionFigures/Carded/EPI_CardedC3PO.JPG)

If Hasbro wants to go retro with prequel stuff, they should put SA figures onto those cards with new commtech chips and charge $12 a piece.
Title: Re: Let's discuss the future of the retro-vintage line.
Post by: JACKOFTRADZE on August 19, 2009, 05:42 PM
At this point I would be very happy to see any package change because since TAC left the cards just blow. This years package in my opinion, really suck bantha balls. I would normally take the position Rob has but I can dig it if that is truly the only way to get the other vintage ones missing from the VOTC line. Let's face it the bulk of the figures left are not the cream of the crop so they need to pump some life in there. If anyone is that opposed just don't buy the prequel guys.

Since I have been cherry pick'n the line more this kind of thing no longer bothers me. Just start shipping new **** again, I would be happy to get any new Legacy right now. I am so tired of the long pauses between new stuff in the last year. I have serious doubts Hasbro will get all the waves they have planned for this year out by the end of this year. The EP1 wave should have popped up by now, they need to fix this problem to keep folks engaged. Pegs are actually pretty empty, even the Yarna's are moving 2 figures a month now out of desperation.
Title: Re: Let's discuss the future of the retro-vintage line.
Post by: Darth_Anton on August 20, 2009, 11:08 AM
If this happens, looks like i will have to go back to buying two of each figure, one to keep carded and one loose!  Its been A LONG time since I have done that!!!


I'll only do that with Vintage card repos. Other than that, I'll never go back.
Title: Re: Let's discuss the future of the retro-vintage line.
Post by: Darth Broem on August 21, 2009, 10:50 AM
Same with me.  I only want the vintage repos if they even come back.  I'm not real interested in pluncking down $15 for them which is probably what the price will be if it's done.