JediDefender.com Forums
Community => Watto's Junk Yard => Topic started by: Jeff on July 17, 2008, 01:33 AM
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Terminator Salvation: Teaser Trailer (http://movies.yahoo.com/premieres/8841507/standardformat/)
I know it's just a teaser, but it doesn't totally suck. Very promising... :)
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Terminator Salvation looks pretty interesting, need to see more. Batman Begins... The End Begins! :D
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Can't wait for Terminator. Next year will be a movie let-down from '07 & '08. The only big movies for me are Wolverine (DEADPOOL!!!), Terminator 4 & Transformers 2. 2010 looks to be the same (IM 2 & Thor as of now), but 2011 will be better. (Captain America, Spider-Man 4 & Avenegrs & hopefully more)
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aintitcool.com has a couple of pic's of the T-600 from Terminator Salvation (http://www.aintitcool.com/node/37662) from SDCC. They showed some more footage but that has not yet surfaced. :-\
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Schwarzenegger underwhelmed by early 'Terminator Salvation' footage (http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/herocomplex/2008/08/schwarzenegger.html)
(http://gizmodo.com/assets/images/gizmodo/2008/08/TS-FP-84-24r_v32.jpg)
This is the first look at Marcus Wright (Sam Worthington), the major wild card character in the upcoming fourth installment in the Terminator series.
Comic-Con Poster.
(http://www.thecelebritytruth.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/08/terminator-salvation-poster.jpg)
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Holy hell! 8)
May contain spoilers.
Terminator 4: Salvation - New Footage and Concept Art (http://hwhills.com/terminator-4-salvation-new-footage-and-concept-art/)
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I cannot wait for this movie!!!
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The Terminator Salvation site has a motion poster (http://rss.warnerbros.com/terminatorsalvation/) up online, clicky link.
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The Terminator Salvation site has a motion poster (http://rss.warnerbros.com/terminatorsalvation/) up online, clicky link.
I was sure that was a typo but the thing is pretty neat.
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It's being reported that a new trailer for Terminator Salvation will premiere on Entertainment Tonight next Tuesday & will be shown when The Day the Earth Stood Still hit theaters December 12th. Click for a sneak peek of some clips from ET.
Terminator Salvation on ET (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bw_hALL7zqg)
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The Terminator Salvation site has a motion poster (http://rss.warnerbros.com/terminatorsalvation/) up online, clicky link.
I was sure that was a typo but the thing is pretty neat.
WOW. Awesome!
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New trailer is up for Terminator Salvation (http://www.apple.com/trailers/wb/terminatorsalvation/)
Holy hell! 8)
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Anyone notice that Stephanie Jacobsen who is the TV series shows up in the trailer. Cool to tie things together.
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Looks like her but not her, me thinks it's Moon Bloodgood. The facial moles are the tip off.
Screen cap.
(http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i306/DSJcdn/Random/Salvation.jpg)
Stephanie Jacobsen.
(http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i306/DSJcdn/Random/StephanieJacobsen.jpg)
Moon Bloodgood.
(http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i306/DSJcdn/Random/Moon_Bloodgood_001.jpg)
(http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i306/DSJcdn/Random/Moonblood.jpg)
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Moon Bloodgold it is... (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0438488/)
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New trailer is up for Terminator Salvation (http://www.apple.com/trailers/wb/terminatorsalvation/)
Holy hell! 8)
It looks snazzy but I'm not getting a Terminator vibe at all ... besides the look of some of the 'bots.
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I have just been reading the reviews about The Day the Earth Stood Still... (http://www.cheesebuerger.de/images/midi/muede/d026.gif)
I'll just catch it online soon. :-X
Yeah, me too. I didn't have high hopes for it, but, wow, it really sounds like they dropped the ball.
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Looks like her but not her, me thinks it's Moon Bloodgood. The facial moles are the tip off.
You fail on account of photo lameness...
(http://www.creaturecantina.com/graphics_temp/moon_b.jpg)
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You fail on account of photo lameness...
(http://www.creaturecantina.com/graphics_temp/moon_b.jpg)
Wrong, that pic has been photoshopped to hell & shows no facial moles which is the key in this factor, not the other 2 moles. :P ;)
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Yeah, but you could still find many better photos than that hospital gown thing...
(http://starsmedia.ign.com/stars/image/article/832/832848/moon-bloodgood-2_1194310059.jpg)
(http://www.creaturecantina.com/graphics_temp/moon_b2.jpg)
Frankly, I expect more from you. ;)
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We save those pics for the hotties thread. ;)
They still don't show the moles well, you still suck tho. :P
These do a bit plus her nose is wider.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v515/bloodylamer/bastardly-photos/0505/album92/moon-bloodgood71803.jpg)
(http://www.sliceofscifi.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/04/moon_bloodgood.jpg)
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Well, it looks like Terminator Salvation has opened the door for the next Termy flicks. There is going to be 2 more & Bale has signed to do them.
Terminator 5 in the works (http://network.nationalpost.com/np/blogs/theampersand/archive/2008/12/15/terminator-5-in-the-works.aspx)
Terminator Salvation hasn't even hit theatres, but that hasn't stopped producers Derek Anderson and Victor Kubicek from starting work on the fifth film in the iconic sci-fi series.
Variety reports the duo will once again work with Terminator Salvation director McG.
The duo had originally planned to wait until the release of "Terminator Salvation" next summer before deciding on whether to proceed with the next chapter, but the positive studio, fan and media reaction to footage from the current pic has encouraged them to move forward ahead of schedule.
"We feel the time is now to start shaping the next part of this," Kubicek said.
Christian Bale -- who stars as the human rebel leader John Connor -- is signed up for three films. Terminator 5 is expected to land in theatres in 2011
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It's a bit unusual for studious to greenlight sequels before the predecessors release. T3 was okay, but I didn't think it did well enough to get us two more sequels based on a 4th film that hasn't even earned cent one yet. I guess T4 is testing extremely well.
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It's a bit unusual for studious to greenlight sequels before the predecessors release.
I agree - but Transformers 3 is a go for 2011. :-\
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Bale Went Ballistic (http://www.tmz.com/2009/02/02/bale-went-ballistic/) :D
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http://img6.imageshack.us/img6/8852/t600tsnewqf1.jpg
Image of the new or old T-600 depending how you look at it.
Its a beastly looking machine
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Indeed they are.
Exclusive Images Reveal McG's Terminator Salvation Vision (http://blog.wired.com/underwire/2009/01/terminator-dire.html)
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Bale Went Ballistic (http://www.tmz.com/2009/02/02/bale-went-ballistic/) :D
Yikes
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LOL! (http://www.telusplanet.net/public/djustus/Southern%20Alberta%20Storms/LOLSide.gif)
Family Guy Spoofs Christian Bale (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VSr1d-1R534)
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LOL! (http://www.telusplanet.net/public/djustus/Southern%20Alberta%20Storms/LOLSide.gif)
Family Guy Spoofs Christian Bale (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VSr1d-1R534)
I saw that the other night and thought it was hilarious.
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It's funnier without the beeps. (http://www.facebook.com/ext/share.php?sid=52188346669&h=bRmQ-&u=opPxC)
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EXCLUSIVE: Linda Hamilton In Negotiations For ‘Terminator Salvation’ (http://moviesblog.mtv.com/2009/02/19/exclusive-linda-hamilton-in-negotiations-for-terminator-salvation/)
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Holy hell! ;D
Terminator Salvation Theatrical Trailer 2 (http://movies.yahoo.com/feature/terminator-salvation.html?showVideo=1)
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Guess they dont want to make the revelation a secret do they?
I mean how can you let that out in a trailer????
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McG Wants Robert Patrick For ‘Terminator Salvation’ Sequel (http://moviesblog.mtv.com/2009/04/03/mcg-wants-robert-patrick-for-terminator-salvation-sequel/)
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Schwarzenegger may make cameo in new 'Terminator' (http://www.cnn.com/2009/SHOWBIZ/Movies/04/22/schwarzenegger.terminator/index.html)
California Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger may reprise his classic "Terminator" role in the fourth installment of the film franchise.
"Terminator Salvation" wouldn't have the former movie star getting into makeup again. The special effects wizards at Industrial Light and Magic are trying to insert Schwarzenegger's image from the 1984 original.
"I made it very clear that I don't have the time to do the movie," he said during an "Ask the Governor" Webcast on Tuesday. "I said that I would be willing to be in the movie if they get the technology together, and so they are working on that right now."
Schwarzenegger said, in the scene, the main character would encounter him as a "future Terminator." The new film is a prequel to the popular series.
"I think it's cool to continue on with the franchise," he said.
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Guess they dont want to make the revelation a secret do they?
I mean how can you let that out in a trailer????
no ****....that's a big reveal.
I've never understood how they decide what to put in a trailer...I still think Darth Maul's double saber should have been left a surprise as well, but everyone knew it was coming from the trailers.
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If John Connor was visited by Arnie when he was a kid, wouldn't he already know why Skynet is replicating human tissue? I mean, is this movie set in the future before anybody went into the past, or in the future after everyone went into the past? If it's the future before, wouldn't Judgment Day have been 199-something?
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August 29, 1997, is the date of Judgment Day. Yep, here we go with the timeline displacement again, alternate timelines etc.... Time travel is a tricky subject, I think the only movie trilogy that did well with time travel was Back To The Future. ;)
Judgment Day (http://terminator.wikia.com/wiki/Judgment_Day)
Terminator 2: Judgment Day (timeline) (http://terminator.wikia.com/wiki/Terminator_2:_Judgment_Day_(timeline))
I found this posted on a site on the net:
Terminator takes place in 1984.
Terminator 2 takes place in 1994. (35 years in the past from 2029).
Terminator 3 takes place in 2004. (10 years after T2).
The original Judgement Day date was July 29th, 2004. However, when Cyberdyne gained the CPU from the Terminator's head, it pushed Judgement Day closer, due to the future technology.
Judgement Day then became August 29th, 1997.
But when the CPU was destroyed, along with Cyberdyne, it returned everything to normal. Judgement Day then was returned to July 29th, 2004.
But wait, there's more...
10 Different Timelines From The Terminator Universe (http://io9.com/5191092/10-different-timelines-from-the-terminator-universe)
Also remember that The Sarah Connor Chronicles has crap to do with Salvation blah... blah... blah.
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I'd just like to know in which of the 10 of them this film is set...
I'd assumed it was a sequel to T3. But if John Connor doesn't know why Skynet is developing human tissue, the only thing I can conclude is that it's a prequel to T1.
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Prequel or sequel... some say both. I say prequel.
Ya got 2 more flicks after this baby! ;D
Terminator is technically the fourth movie in the Terminator series, but there is talk of making the latest film Terminator Salvation apart of its own trilogy. They are already developing Terminator 5 and that one more will be in the works.
Terminator Salvation is the upcoming fourth installment to the Terminator film series, scheduled to be released on May 21, 2009. It was written by John D. Brancato, Michael Ferris, Jonathan Nolan, and Anthony E. Zuiker, directed by McG, and stars Christian Bale as John Connor. After Skynet has destroyed much of humanity in a nuclear holocaust, John struggles to become the leader, but in this future, Marcus Wright (Sam Worthington, who was personally recommended by James Cameron) has somehow altered it, and the T-800 (Arnold Schwarzenegger and Roland Kickinger) is coming online sooner than expected. The film will also center on Kyle Reese (Anton Yelchin) and how he became who he was in the first film.
Director McG has announced that Terminator Salvation is the first of a new trilogy to revive the franchise, with both main actor Christian Bale and writer Jonathan Nolan signed up for two more films. Due to generally positive reception to preview footage of the film, the Halcyon Company chose to develop a sequel in December 2008 for release in 2011. The producers mentioned the Middle East as a possible shooting location.
McG said the time displacement equipment and the T-1000 will be reintroduced in the fifth film: "I like the idea and the perspective for the next picture that you meet Robert Patrick the way he looks today, and he's a scientist that's working on, you know, improving cell replication so we can stay healthier and we can cure diabetes and do all these things that sound like good ideas, and to once again live as idealized expressions as ourselves.
Key quote, hopefully it's explained.
I knew it was coming. I thought I knew our enemy. But I don't know if we can win this war. This is not the future my mother warned me about. Something has changed.
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Well, if his mother warned him, then it must be a sequel to T3. In a prequel, his mother would be ignorant. So I don't know why he'd be mystified about Skynet developing human tissue...
"You know... maybe this has something to do with that big-ass robot with all the muscles that saved me in 1994... and again 10 year later... he had skin!"
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IMO this whole time travel, prequel, sequel mess is just another attempt to make this storyline more marketable and allows the future writers, directors, etc more power to continue this story as long as they can milk it. Confusion is not story telling, but that looks like how they are going to pull along fans til the end of the third pic I bet to explain everything. You wanna throw a monkey wrench in? Make everyone find out at the end of this trilogy that John Connor is a Termninator. Couldnt he have been replaced at some point once he reaches adult age? Or even a Terminator that can grow, learn, age, feel pain and fool all that surround it.
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Unless they really ball the whole thing up, three things have to have happened in order for John Connor to be the leader of the resistance in the future:
Skynet had to come online and end the world.
A Terminator had to go back in time after Sarah Connor
Kyle Reese had to go back in time after the Terminator.
Because without those events, John doesn't exist and he probably wouldn't be prepared for the world to end.
T3 could be forgotten about, if the writers really wanted to. They could throw it out based on what happened on The Sarah Connor Chronicles. But if they took the T1, T2 and TSCC continuity and applied it, situation would be fine.
I have a feeling that they tossed out everything with the possible exception of the three things I mentioned above. So, we'll see.
E... (who actually isn't geek enough to read those alt reality timeline explanations)
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McG said the time displacement equipment and the T-1000 will be reintroduced in the fifth film: "I like the idea and the perspective for the next picture that you meet Robert Patrick the way he looks today, and he's a scientist that's working on, you know, improving cell replication so we can stay healthier and we can cure diabetes and do all these things that sound like good ideas, and to once again live as idealized expressions as ourselves.
Except the reason the T-1000 looks like Robert Patrick is because he imprinted himself off that traffic cop at the beginning of T2.
dip****. ::)
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Unless they really ball the whole thing up, three things have to have happened in order for John Connor to be the leader of the resistance in the future:
Skynet had to come online and end the world.
A Terminator had to go back in time after Sarah Connor
Kyle Reese had to go back in time after the Terminator.
Because without those events, John doesn't exist and he probably wouldn't be prepared for the world to end.
How did John exist before Reese went back and fathered him? Is there some lame-ass Exhausted Universe-type thing for the Terminator series which explains that one?
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Unless they really ball the whole thing up, three things have to have happened in order for John Connor to be the leader of the resistance in the future:
Skynet had to come online and end the world.
A Terminator had to go back in time after Sarah Connor
Kyle Reese had to go back in time after the Terminator.
Because without those events, John doesn't exist and he probably wouldn't be prepared for the world to end.
How did John exist before Reese went back and fathered him? Is there some lame-ass Exhausted Universe-type thing for the Terminator series which explains that one?
I don't understand what you're asking? I didn't say that John existed before Reese went back in time, I'm saying that in order for John to exist, Reese had to go back in time. So those three things had to have happened in order for there to be a John Connor. Everything else after the first Terminator movie could be scrapped if the writers of Salvation were so inclined.
Rather than reading all those websites, trying to figure out how all 3 films and the Sarah Connor Chronicles fit together, I'm saying that it could be possible that the writers of Salvation *could have* scrapped films 2 and 3 and TSCC and just wrote the post-Skynet movie based on what we know from the first Terminator film.
E...
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I don't understand what you're asking? I didn't say that John existed before Reese went back in time, I'm saying that in order for John to exist, Reese had to go back in time. So those three things had to have happened in order for there to be a John Connor. Everything else after the first Terminator movie could be scrapped if the writers of Salvation were so inclined.
Wasn't directed toward you specifically, just a general question that's confused the piss out of me for years now. How could John send back Reese to father John? I mean, John had to exist at some point from some other father, or how else could John be there to send Reese back originally? Doesn't make any sense to me.
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Well, perhaps the 'present day' John Connors were never really John Connor. Kinda reminds me of that one Battlestar Galactica line, but more confusing:
"All of this has happened before, and it will all happen again."
Or something like that.
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I understand what you're asking, Matt. That's one of those time travel things that never made logical sense to me. Predestination paradox. Reese has to go back in time to father John but how did John exist to send him back in the first place? John always existed to send Reese back. That's proven by the fact Reese went back. ****** up, right?
I try not to think too hard about that type of situation. I've only ever seen one or two movies that actually did a good job of maintaining continuity through the whole time travel thing. Oddly enough, the Back to the Future films did a pretty good job and they were as non-sciency of a Sci-Fi film as you could get. Star Trek, Terminator and others have done it and didn't do nearly as good of a job.
At some point I guess you have to make a choice, do you want to just go with the suspension of disbelief and enjoy the film or do you want to analyze the whole thing for an answer? I think in the case of Salvation, I'm going to just blow off T3 and TSCC and let Salvation set the timeline and see where it ties in.
E...
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No, I would never let the time-travel stuff get in the way of my enjoyment of these movies. Mainly, I just like seeing robots blow a bunch of **** up, you know?
I was really just curious if this had ever been explained away by Cameron or anyone else involved with the franchise.
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Sounds like a question only the crew of the NCC 1701-D U.S.S. Enterprise could solve!
(http://startrek.scifi.pl/res/images/galleries/003/tng-crew.jpg)
They love that time travel/alternate universe/time loop/confusing ****.
That or Doc Brown could figure it out.
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(http://geekswithblogs.net/images/geekswithblogs_net/dlackey/great_scott_400.png) (http://hikaru.tea-nifty.com/robo/images/20040615_giga_e.jpg)
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I don't understand what you're asking? I didn't say that John existed before Reese went back in time, I'm saying that in order for John to exist, Reese had to go back in time. So those three things had to have happened in order for there to be a John Connor. Everything else after the first Terminator movie could be scrapped if the writers of Salvation were so inclined.
Wasn't directed toward you specifically, just a general question that's confused the piss out of me for years now. How could John send back Reese to father John? I mean, John had to exist at some point from some other father, or how else could John be there to send Reese back originally? Doesn't make any sense to me.
Reese only had to go back in time to make sure Sarah Conner survived. A "John Conner" had to exist in the future. The machines knew that John Conner was the leader of the resistance and that his mother was named Sarah Conner. The resistance was about to win the war and in a despirate attempt to destroy the resistance, Skynet sent a Terminator back in time to kill Sarah Conner before John Conner was born. Therefore, in the original timeline Sarah Conner had a kid with someone (not Reese) and named that child John. That John Conner survives Judgement Day and ends up in a work camp, gets freed, and lead the resistance. He then sends Reese into the past to stop the Terminator as seen in T-1. Thus, history is changed because Reese now becomes the father of John Conner. Since he knows that Sarah is the mother of the leader of the resistance, he tells her everything and thus influences the future.
Now we have a new timeline, where Sarah can prepare John for the future that he will face. At some point, Sarah is commited to an asylum and John grows up in a foster home. Dyson finds the Terminator remains and now he creates Skynet earlier. Judgement Day occurs earlier and by the time the resistance wins, Skynet has greater technology. They send back the T-1000 to 1994 to kill John Conner this time as seen in T-2. John Conner has also figured out how to reprogram Terminators and sends back Arnold. The result is that Judgement Day is now pushed further into the future, but it still happens as seen in T-3. SCC jumps the T-3 timeline to put Sarah past hear normal death date and thus creates another alternate timeline.
Essentially, a "John Conner", son of Sarah Conner, had to exist in order for T-1 to take place. I can be debateable as to whether the John Conner who sent back Reese is the same as the one that Sarah is pregnant with at the end of T-1. Myself, I would say it is impossible since Reese would never have gone back in time without John sending him.
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Essentially, a "John Conner", son of Sarah Conner, had to exist in order for T-1 to take place. I can be debateable as to whether the John Conner who sent back Reese is the same as the one that Sarah is pregnant with at the end of T-1. Myself, I would say it is impossible since Reese would never have gone back in time without John sending him.
That's one of my big problems with things. If it's a different John Connor... 75% genetically different... how could he be just as successful leading the resistance? He's a whole other person. Skynet already succeeded in killing John Connor by preventing his conception. I guess the new John Connor was pretty effective himself, but it makes you look at things in a whole different way.
And I've just thought of a big fly in the ointment...
How could Reese have the photo of Sarah Connor that was taken with her pregnant with his child? That photo he fell in love with? It was the same exact photo that was taken at the end of the film. That photo could only exist after he went back in time. So that would be indicative of a circular time loop... Reese was always the father of John Connor. The photo proves it.
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How could Reese have the photo of Sarah Connor that was taken with her pregnant with his child? That photo he fell in love with? It was the same exact photo that was taken at the end of the film. That photo could only exist after he went back in time. So that would be indicative of a circular time loop... Reese was always the father of John Connor. The photo proves it.
I believe that Sarah gave John that photo of her pregnant with him at some point in their lives. Then John gave it to Reese (possibly the only remaning photo he had of her? and because it depicted Sarah at the age the Terminator was sent to kill her). But, yeah, I remember he used to look at the photo to calm himself, IIRC. Will have to rewatch it soon.
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It was the same exact photo that was taken at the end of T1. Hence, the future Reese came from contained that photo. Hence John Connor was always his son.
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Terminator 1 leads into Terminator 2 - That is where continuity ends.
Terminator 3 is a different time line
SCC is a different time line
Terminator Salvation we don't know.
Basically the general consensus is that Terminator 3 has nothing to do with the first movies and doesn't tie to Salvation or SCC.
Reese has been and always will be John's father. The picture was for Reese to know what Sarah looked like for his trip back because John knew before he met Reese that he would always have to seen Reese back in time or the Grandfather Paradox would happen and John would never have existed and Skynet won.
The picture is first seen in flash forwards as Reese is explaining the future to Sarah and how he came to be sent back to help her. It isn't until the end of the movie that we see when the picture is actually taken.
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Essentially, a "John Conner", son of Sarah Conner, had to exist in order for T-1 to take place. I can be debateable as to whether the John Conner who sent back Reese is the same as the one that Sarah is pregnant with at the end of T-1. Myself, I would say it is impossible since Reese would never have gone back in time without John sending him.
That's one of my big problems with things. If it's a different John Connor... 75% genetically different... how could he be just as successful leading the resistance? He's a whole other person. Skynet already succeeded in killing John Connor by preventing his conception. I guess the new John Connor was pretty effective himself, but it makes you look at things in a whole different way.
And I've just thought of a big fly in the ointment...
How could Reese have the photo of Sarah Connor that was taken with her pregnant with his child? That photo he fell in love with? It was the same exact photo that was taken at the end of the film. That photo could only exist after he went back in time. So that would be indicative of a circular time loop... Reese was always the father of John Connor. The photo proves it.
It is possible that the events of T1 (the parts shown in the future) could have been the second time Reese was sent back in order to have the same picture, or could just be a coincidence that a very similar picture was taken in both timelines. This is a chicken and the egg quandry really. There is no reason for Reese to go back in time until the Skynet sends back Arnold. Hence, the John Conner from T2 would never have been created until Reese goes back in time. One has to assume that there was a John Conner that lead the resistance who sent Reese back thus changing that "present" time. Also, I don't thank you can really calculated the genetic differences...he would be at least 50% different to as much as 100% if Sarah happened to give him the other copy of every chromosome.
As for T4, I believe the original intent was for it to be a sequel to T3 since it appears John will be with the daughter of the General from T3. However, looking at the previews, it seems that John has no idea about the human looking Terminators. That would lead me to believe that this could be a prequel of T-1 where this John Conner was not fathered by Reese, but I don't think the dates match up, so we'll have to wait and see.
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It wasn't a similar photo, it was the same exact photo. And it's impossible that Sarah Connor would have been driving through the desert pregnant with John at that exact moment the photo was taken had she not already survived the attack by the T-800. She'd be a waitress. The only possible conclusion is that John Connor was always Reese's son. And that's just a huge plot hole that can't be logically resolved.
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It wasn't a similar photo, it was the same exact photo. And it's impossible that Sarah Connor would have been driving through the desert pregnant with John at that exact moment the photo was taken had she not already survived the attack by the T-800. She'd be a waitress. The only possible conclusion is that John Connor was always Reese's son. And that's just a huge plot hole that can't be logically resolved.
That theory would mean that Skynet would always develop time travel and that there was never a timeline in which Sarah Conner did not know that Judgement Day was coming. The reason Skynet sends a Terminator back in time is because John Conner leads the resistance to victory. By sending something back in time, there has to be an original timeline that is now altered, hence there has to be a 1984 timeline in which Kyle Reese and a Terminator did not show up. The fact that Judgement Day changes between T1 and T2 shows this. The remains of the terminator are found by Dyson and his company and are used to create Skynet at an earlier date. If John and Sarah Conner were ever successful in stopping Judgement Day and Skynet, John Conner would probably cease to exist. Essentially you have the Grandfather paradox, where if you kill your grandfather before he has fathered your dad, will you cease to exist. If John Conner, son of Kyle Reese, stops Judgement Day, there will never be a point in the future in which he sends Kyle back to protect Sarah, hence he will not have been conceived via Kyle.
The original timeline could involve Sarah getting pregnant from a one night stand and quiting her job and going to the desert thus leading to the picture.
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Essentially, a "John Conner", son of Sarah Conner, had to exist in order for T-1 to take place. I can be debateable as to whether the John Conner who sent back Reese is the same as the one that Sarah is pregnant with at the end of T-1. Myself, I would say it is impossible since Reese would never have gone back in time without John sending him.
That's one of my big problems with things. If it's a different John Connor... 75% genetically different... how could he be just as successful leading the resistance? He's a whole other person. Skynet already succeeded in killing John Connor by preventing his conception. I guess the new John Connor was pretty effective himself, but it makes you look at things in a whole different way.
And I've just thought of a big fly in the ointment...
How could Reese have the photo of Sarah Connor that was taken with her pregnant with his child? That photo he fell in love with? It was the same exact photo that was taken at the end of the film. That photo could only exist after he went back in time. So that would be indicative of a circular time loop... Reese was always the father of John Connor. The photo proves it.
It is possible that the events of T1 (the parts shown in the future) could have been the second time Reese was sent back in order to have the same picture, or could just be a coincidence that a very similar picture was taken in both timelines. This is a chicken and the egg quandry really. There is no reason for Reese to go back in time until the Skynet sends back Arnold. Hence, the John Conner from T2 would never have been created until Reese goes back in time. One has to assume that there was a John Conner that lead the resistance who sent Reese back thus changing that "present" time. Also, I don't thank you can really calculated the genetic differences...he would be at least 50% different to as much as 100% if Sarah happened to give him the other copy of every chromosome.
As for T4, I believe the original intent was for it to be a sequel to T3 since it appears John will be with the daughter of the General from T3. However, looking at the previews, it seems that John has no idea about the human looking Terminators. That would lead me to believe that this could be a prequel of T-1 where this John Conner was not fathered by Reese, but I don't think the dates match up, so we'll have to wait and see.
Ed
Reese only goes back in time ONCE.
I think you have the whole premise of Terminator 1 messed up. Here it is in a very short nutshell.
Some where in the future - Skynet is loosing the war, they are on the verge of defeat. They send T-800 back in time to kill Sarah Conor the mother of John Conor to keep the leader of the resistance from ever being born (not realizing the Grandfather Paradox, being that if they don't do that Skynet will never exist).
T-800 fails it's mission and is destroyed in a warehouse of Cyberdyne. Reese's one night with Sarah results in the conception of John Conor. Picture taken in desert, that picture survives on to be the picture given to Reese in the future by John so that way he knows what Sarah looks like when he is sent back to save Sarah.
1997
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Essentially, a "John Conner", son of Sarah Conner, had to exist in order for T-1 to take place. I can be debateable as to whether the John Conner who sent back Reese is the same as the one that Sarah is pregnant with at the end of T-1. Myself, I would say it is impossible since Reese would never have gone back in time without John sending him.
That's one of my big problems with things. If it's a different John Connor... 75% genetically different... how could he be just as successful leading the resistance? He's a whole other person. Skynet already succeeded in killing John Connor by preventing his conception. I guess the new John Connor was pretty effective himself, but it makes you look at things in a whole different way.
And I've just thought of a big fly in the ointment...
How could Reese have the photo of Sarah Connor that was taken with her pregnant with his child? That photo he fell in love with? It was the same exact photo that was taken at the end of the film. That photo could only exist after he went back in time. So that would be indicative of a circular time loop... Reese was always the father of John Connor. The photo proves it.
It is possible that the events of T1 (the parts shown in the future) could have been the second time Reese was sent back in order to have the same picture, or could just be a coincidence that a very similar picture was taken in both timelines. This is a chicken and the egg quandry really. There is no reason for Reese to go back in time until the Skynet sends back Arnold. Hence, the John Conner from T2 would never have been created until Reese goes back in time. One has to assume that there was a John Conner that lead the resistance who sent Reese back thus changing that "present" time. Also, I don't thank you can really calculated the genetic differences...he would be at least 50% different to as much as 100% if Sarah happened to give him the other copy of every chromosome.
As for T4, I believe the original intent was for it to be a sequel to T3 since it appears John will be with the daughter of the General from T3. However, looking at the previews, it seems that John has no idea about the human looking Terminators. That would lead me to believe that this could be a prequel of T-1 where this John Conner was not fathered by Reese, but I don't think the dates match up, so we'll have to wait and see.
Ed
Reese only goes back in time ONCE.
I think you have the whole premise of Terminator 1 messed up. Here it is in a very short nutshell.
Some where in the future - Skynet is loosing the war, they are on the verge of defeat. They send T-800 back in time to kill Sarah Conor the mother of John Conor to keep the leader of the resistance from ever being born (not realizing the Grandfather Paradox, being that if they don't do that Skynet will never exist).
T-800 fails it's mission and is destroyed in a warehouse of Cyberdyne. Reese's one night with Sarah results in the conception of John Conor. Picture taken in desert, that picture survives on to be the picture given to Reese in the future by John so that way he knows what Sarah looks like when he is sent back to save Sarah.
1997
Except the results of T-1 result in a speed up in the timeline because of remnants of the T-800...that is why the reprogrammed T-800 and the T-1000 come back in time in T-2.
There had to be a John Conner in the future before the events of T-1 for T-1 to even take place. You cannot start in the past of the "present" (1984) and go to a future in which someone from the future comes back to father someone from the past. The two points in time do not occur simeultaneously. We could debate string theory and the whole deal, but the original 1984 timeline had to occur first before the future timeline post Judgement Day could occur.
I am not debating the events of T-1, I am debating the statement that Kyle Reese was "always" John's father.
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We're all aware it's not possible. Logically John Connor had to exist before Reese went back in time. But the only way that the photo of Sarah Connor exists for Reese to fall in love with is if he went back in time and impregnated her. It's a plot hole. And you can't explain it away by claiming it was a similar photo. It is what it is... a flaw.
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We're all aware it's not possible. Logically John Connor had to exist before Reese went back in time. But the only way that the photo of Sarah Connor exists for Reese to fall in love with is if he went back in time and impregnated her. It's a plot hole. And you can't explain it away by claiming it was a similar photo. It is what it is... a flaw.
Unless the Kyle Reese post Judgement Day scenes that we see are after he has gone back in time the first time...meaning that John Conner grows up hearing about Kyle via Sarah and how he came back from the future to save her. Thus, John knows that in the future he must send Kyle back to save his mother. That is the part that isn't clear from the movie.
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It's not a flash forward, though. He's imagining it as he's talking to Sarah about the war, IIRC.
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It's not a flash forward, though. He's imagining it as he's talking to Sarah about the war, IIRC.
Yes, but my point is that all we see of Kyle Reese is a Kyle Reese that is a Lieutenant to a John Conner that knows that Kyle Reese is his father and thus that John Conner tells Reese stories of his mother knowing that he (Conner) must send Kyle back in time at some point to become his father. Thus why he has the picture and so forth. In a way, it could become an endless loop in time. However, from the events we see in T-1, the timeline is changed to benefit Skynet such that Judgement Day is sped up and Skynet has greater tech (the T-1000).
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Ah... I was confused... I thought you'd been arguing against Reese always being John Connor's father.
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Ah... I was confused... I thought you'd been arguing against Reese always being John Connor's father.
I'll argue against that . Why couldn't John Conner have had a different father initially? Let's say Sarah has a kid out of wedlock and that kid becomes the leader of the human resistance in the future via whatever means. Maybe he has a strong character or its just dumb luck, whatever the cause he becomes a leader for what remains of humanity.
So Reese travels back in time and gets Sarah pregnant instead and sets John and Sarah's lives on a completely different path. John ends up with different DNA and obviously a different childhood being chased by time traveling robots. However, being told from birth that he is destined to lead the resistance, he naturally makes choices that position him into the same role of a future leader. We learn in the TV show that he now knows his father is from the future, so he saves that picture of his mom to give to his future dad.
Play it through a second time – John with Kyle DNA gives the picture to Kyle and Kyle goes back, sleeps with Sarah and Jon is born. This creates an endless time loop where John’s original dad no longer factors into the mix. At any given point, we are likely not watching time unfold via the way it did the first time, but rather through downstream iterations of time as history has been changed by time travel.
I’m not saying this was the writer’s intent, but seems plausible enough to me.
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You missed a dozen posts ago where we demonstrated that the only way Reese gets the photo Sarah has taken at the end of T1 is if she's impregnated by Reese first. The photo proves Reese was always John Connor's father.
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You missed a dozen posts ago where we demonstrated that the only way Reese gets the photo Sarah has taken at the end of T1 is if she's impregnated by Reese first. The photo proves Reese was always John Connor's father.
No, I read that, but re-read my last paragraph and see if that makes sense. Here's a possible "chronology of events"
- Sarah Connor has a baby with some other guy. Don't know who, don't care.
- Skynet takes over and John Connor grows to become the leader of the human resistance for whatever reason
- Skynet decides to send a T-800 back in time, so Connor sends one of his best men, Kyle Reese to protect him
- Reese travels back in time and impregnates Sarah before she gets pregnant from someone else
- Reese dies, Sarah gets her picture taken and heads off to raise John
At this point, he does not have a picture of her and the future is radically altered. John is not the man he was from a DNA perspective, but he is prepared from birth to become the leader of the resistance. Knowing it is his destiny, he makes choices that lead him to the leadership role his previous self discovered more naturally.
- In the future, this different John remains a threat, so Skynet sends a T-800 back in time.
- At this point, John knows Reese is his father, so he sends Reese back after him. Again.
- This time, John knows its his dad and he gives Reese the picture. Maybe this version of John is sentimental because of his different DNA or maybe its just that he now knows its his dad or maybe he just didn't have a picture of his mom in the initial timeline because that John didn't know what was coming.
This is the point at which we see Terminator 1. From this point on, there is no reason for anything to change. Reese has the picture, saves Sarah, dies. John is born, becomes the leader, knows Reese is the father, gives him the picture, sends him back in time with the picture. Its an endless loop from that point that has no reason to change unless something else in the timeline causes a change.
I've always thought the intent was something similar to this and I find it fairly plausible (outside of machines taking over and time travel, etc.!), but that's just my opinion. We do know from the TV show that history can be completely re-written. Hence the T3 storyline becoming null and void when Sarah avoids her death by jumping into the future.
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You missed a dozen posts ago where we demonstrated that the only way Reese gets the photo Sarah has taken at the end of T1 is if she's impregnated by Reese first. The photo proves Reese was always John Connor's father.
No, I read that, but re-read my last paragraph and see if that makes sense. Here's a possible "chronology of events"
- Sarah Connor has a baby with some other guy. Don't know who, don't care.
- Skynet takes over and John Connor grows to become the leader of the human resistance for whatever reason
- Skynet decides to send a T-800 back in time, so Connor sends one of his best men, Kyle Reese to protect him
- Reese travels back in time and impregnates Sarah before she gets pregnant from someone else
- Reese dies, Sarah gets her picture taken and heads off to raise John
At this point, he does not have a picture of her and the future is radically altered. John is not the man he was from a DNA perspective, but he is prepared from birth to become the leader of the resistance. Knowing it is his destiny, he makes choices that lead him to the leadership role his previous self discovered more naturally.
- In the future, this different John remains a threat, so Skynet sends a T-800 back in time.
- At this point, John knows Reese is his father, so he sends Reese back after him. Again.
- This time, John knows its his dad and he gives Reese the picture. Maybe this version of John is sentimental because of his different DNA or maybe its just that he now knows its his dad or maybe he just didn't have a picture of his mom in the initial timeline because that John didn't know what was coming.
This is the point at which we see Terminator 1. From this point on, there is no reason for anything to change. Reese has the picture, saves Sarah, dies. John is born, becomes the leader, knows Reese is the father, gives him the picture, sends him back in time with the picture. Its an endless loop from that point that has no reason to change unless something else in the timeline causes a change.
I've always thought the intent was something similar to this and I find it fairly plausible (outside of machines taking over and time travel, etc.!), but that's just my opinion. We do know from the TV show that history can be completely re-written. Hence the T3 storyline becoming null and void when Sarah avoids her death by jumping into the future.
This is exactly what I have been arguing...Sarah could have gotten pregnant from a one night stand and for whatever reason decides to go off to the desert and gets her picture taken. John could have been a bad kid who got sent off to military school. There had to be some sort of original timeline that we do not see on screen in which there is a John Conner who grows up to lead the resistance.
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Yeah. I don't buy all that. I'm more from the Kyle Reese always beeing John Connor's father school of thought.
E...
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so maybe the J Connor we see in T2 grown up with scar running his cheek using the binoculars watching the battle is the OG Connor b4 Kyle is sent back to become his dad, and now in T:Salv C.Bale is the result of Kyle going back and being his father. :P
It's a movie and there's going to be flubs, especially when there is time travel involved.
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So the theory is that T1 depicts Reese's SECOND trip back through time, the first of the infinite loop generated by his first trip...
Interesting...
I'll have to ponder that a bit and see if I can poke any holes in it.
I may have one... the first time through Reese wouldn't have been in love with Sarah Connor already from all those years of looking at her photo... so how does he end up knocking her up? I guess you could argue she was just that bangable... But if he didn't need a photo the first time through, why would John Connor risk altering history by making him an obsessed stalker the second time through?
Hell, how does he recognize her at all without the photo? I forget if that was a plot point... him knowing what she looked like. The Terminators sure didn't.
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Hell, how does he recognize her at all without the photo? I forget if that was a plot point... him knowing what she looked like. The Terminators sure didn't.
I believe it was a plot point, Bill, so that when John sent Kyle back, as you suggest, he'd know who she was (unlike Arnold going around and killing all the Sarah Connors).
I really should pop that movie in before Salvation comes out. It's been a while.
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I'll have to ponder that a bit and see if I can poke any holes in it.
I may have one... the first time through Reese wouldn't have been in love with Sarah Connor already from all those years of looking at her photo... so how does he end up knocking her up? I guess you could argue she was just that bangable... But if he didn't need a photo the first time through, why would John Connor risk altering history by making him an obsessed stalker the second time through?
Hell, how does he recognize her at all without the photo? I forget if that was a plot point... him knowing what she looked like. The Terminators sure didn't.
These are easily explained. The first time thru Reese could have had an entirely different photo of Sarah or maybe, like Ed says, she gets her picture taken in Mexico anyway. There's really no reason JC wouldn't have a picture of his mom.
As for Reese having sex with Sarah, why wouldn't he bang her? The women of his time have no showers and he's constantly on the run from killer robots, so an 80's Linda Hamilton and a bed ought to be pretty enticing for his character. Once the timeline alters with Reese being the dad, JC knows his dad is Kyle Reese from the future, so of course he knows he has to send him back and decides to save that picture to help him.
What I hadn't thought about before was that we see a different character playing JC in T2 vs. Terminator Salvation. That's really jsut a casting issue, but it could also be used to support an original JC vs. a revised JC with Reese DNA. I also notice looking back on the original that the war is set in 2029, but that preview I saw today said something about 2018. Maybe the war just lasts that long, but seems like another potential indication that we are dealing with different timelines. ;)
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Kyle Reese (http://terminator.wikia.com/wiki/Kyle_Reese)
John Connor (http://terminator.wikia.com/wiki/John_Connor)
Paradox Theory
Many people believe that Kyle Reese is John Connor's father, which would create a paradox: John must send Kyle back in time so that he can exist to defeat Skynet and send Kyle back to protect his mother in the first place. But this opens up the potential that John may have had another father, as otherwise he may not have existed in the original timeline (i.e. a timeline prior to TDE existing). This leads many fans to one of four possible options that:
1: The man that Sarah was dating in the first film, Stan Morski is the true biological father of John Connor. However, there is no evidence that Sarah and Stan were actually involved, only that they had a date (which he canceled).
2: Kyle Reese was sent back in a different time line to alter the future outcome against Skynet and John Connor was born then creating the time line in which John led humanity to victory against Skynet and sent Kyle back to to protect his mother and ensure his survival.
3: Without presuming temporal intervention as some part of the unaltered original timeline that somehow gave rise to the first "John Connor, Leader of the Resistance" before anyone went back in time. Given that Sarah was basically just out there dating, any of a dozen one-night stands or blind dates could certainly have led to a pregnancy. And the "flake" nature of the guys she was dating (or blind-dating like Morsky) can easily lead to Sarah being a single mother. So could whatever hook-up she may have made with any unnamed stranger in Club Noir as a rebound for Morsky breaking their date. Since without TDE intervention, no one was coming to the club to kill her that night. Perhaps it is this original situation that leads to Sarah abandoning the conventional lifestyle of College, Waitressing, and City life to somehow become a recluse militant survivalist on her own, placing her in a position to be John's mentor through the unaltered original timeline Judgment Day that has to have happened prior to any TDE intervention.
4: The whole entire theory of a paradox is untrue just alternate universes all together exist even without the same events happening, this comes from the fact that the Terminator 3's T-850 is from a world where John Connor went to a basement party and hooked up with his future wife. But because of the events of T2 this did not happen in the T3 world. With all the major changes to time line the Terminator would not have been able to carry out it's mission to kill John Connor in the first place especially with the unveiling that, that one Terminator was the one that killed John.
Sarah Connor / Kyle Reese (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ptIff_SgFyI)
Time Travel Will **** You Up! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7cteL9sbS04)
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Picked up my tickets for the 10:40pm show on Firday night. :)
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Oh no, sounds like this movie is ****. Hate filled spoiler review at AICN (http://www.aintitcool.com/node/41140).
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Uh oh. :-\
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Wow :o, now THAT is a rant!
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Yikes! That indeed was a rant. I read other reviews online... :-\
I have a bad feeling about this... will see.
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Well that was enough for me to wait till it hits DVD to check it out...
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Zoinks.
I was not paying a lot of attention to this film just because I was really excited and wanted to see it clean, without knowing the overall plot. But I have to admit, a couple weeks ago when I found out that the original version really had no John Connor in it, that it was a story about Marcus Wright, I began to have some doubts.
Finding out that John's involvement was increased because Bale demanded more, I started to really get a feeling in the back of my mind that maybe something went wrong on this film.
Now this review. Apparently Harry feels the same way about this film as I felt about Angels & Demons. I haven't bought my ticket yet for Terminator and I'm now questioning if I even want to. Maybe I'll skip the midnight showing and see it first thing Friday morning, saving myself at least a couple dollars in ticket price.
E...
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meh...I haven't read much into this movie, but I'm still going to see it sometime this weekend just for the hell of it.
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Wow was Harry's review at AICN a total flame. Probably will see this at some point, but no rushing.
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Here is an interesting article:
http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/05/14/rules-for-time-travelers/
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I think the most telling points about the review are his noted frames of reference. Harry had VERY high hopes for this film because of his love AS A KID of The Terminator and T2. I think that lead to very high expectations on his part for a film franchise he's loved since he was a kid. And I think he left the theater feeling much like many of us may have following our initial exposure to The Phantom Menace or the rest of the PT. We had built up this love and lore around the OT that almost nothing could live up to the expectations we have/had of these modern explorations of fictional worlds we grew up loving.
Regardless of Harry Knowles' review I'm going to see this movie. I have to judge it for myself because I think he can't possibly be objective about what he's seen.
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Undeterred by Harry's rant, I bought my ticket for the 11am showing of Terminator tomorrow. I decided that I'd skip the midnight showing, save myself a couple dollars and probably not have to sit in a crappy seat in a sold out theater.
E...
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Just got back. Severely disappointed. FYI, I stayed away from spoilers, etc. My prediction came true, storytelling is not all about CGI like many directors of today believe. They took the whole existing storyline from 1 and 2 and botched it. I love Bale, but he sucked as Connor.
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Wow, with that rant on the webpage quoted a few posts back. Is he mad that this movie wasn't set like what we saw in T-1? He has to remember that the events of T-2 and T-3 erased that future.
Overall, I didn't have a problem with the movie. This movie was never going to be a favorite of the critics, but I don't think it should be trashed like it has been. Ultimately, this movie was a set up for a 2nd and 3rd movie in a new trilogy and I think it did a good job of doing that.
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Can someone answer this for me. Why didnt the Terminators just go back to an earlier timeline and eliminate anyone who had a chance of changing the future? I know on the Sarah Connor Chronicles that the machines went back to an incorrect timeline and waited for the future to eliminate their targets. Why not just eliminate that persons parents, grandparents, etc. Was this ever explained?
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That's a good question. I'd like to see a Terminator movie set during the Eisenhower administration. It would be kind of like Back to the Future, but instead of the Enchantment Under the Sea dance, it would just be some endoskeleton ripping Sarah Connor's parents a new one.
Anyway, haven't seen the movie yet, but I'm curious as to where it falls in McG's pantheon. Seems to me that it's better than Charlie's Angels 2, but not quite as good as Charlie's Angels 1.
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I think the explanation is that there's no good records in the future. They know of a "Sarah Connor" but don't know anything about her other than what city she lived in. They don't know who she is, who her parents are, or anything like that.
If it was possible to change history via time travel, they really wouldn't even have to bother killing Sarah's parents. If they go back far enough, they'd prevent her ever being conceived. There's only about a 1-in-100,000 chance that a particular sperm will fertilize the egg. If they did anything to change the exact moment of conception, a whole other person would be born. So all the Terminator would need to do is interact with the mother or father at any previous point in their lives, or anybody that might possibly interact with the mother or father at any point, and you'd have Joe instead of Sarah. Of course when you play with that fire, you also prevent the people who build Skynet from being conceived, which would be bad news for the robots.
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LOL! :D
Transforminators (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hcaNZ4iHSMw)
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Can someone answer this for me. Why didnt the Terminators just go back to an earlier timeline and eliminate anyone who had a chance of changing the future? I know on the Sarah Connor Chronicles that the machines went back to an incorrect timeline and waited for the future to eliminate their targets. Why not just eliminate that persons parents, grandparents, etc. Was this ever explained?
It all comes back to the "Grandfather Complex" - If they go too far back and make too many changes it is possible that they would undo their own creation. Thus neggating everything.
I think the explanation is that there's no good records in the future. They know of a "Sarah Connor" but don't know anything about her other than what city she lived in. They don't know who she is, who her parents are, or anything like that.
If it was possible to change history via time travel, they really wouldn't even have to bother killing Sarah's parents. If they go back far enough, they'd prevent her ever being conceived. There's only about a 1-in-100,000 chance that a particular sperm will fertilize the egg. If they did anything to change the exact moment of conception, a whole other person would be born. So all the Terminator would need to do is interact with the mother or father at any previous point in their lives, or anybody that might possibly interact with the mother or father at any point, and you'd have Joe instead of Sarah. Of course when you play with that fire, you also prevent the people who build Skynet from being conceived, which would be bad news for the robots.
This answer works too.
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Saw Terminator this morning. Didn't love it, didn't hate it. Had sort of the indifferent feeling about it like I did with Indiana Jones last year. It lacked something and there were a lot of pieces that felt like they didn't fit and having read about the script re-writes, I figure that's why.
I didn't hate it as much as Harry Knowles did but I don't think I was expecting as much as he was.
E...
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Back from seeing the flick, I'm 60/40 on it. ****, can they make it any louder! ::)
Some nice nods to T1 & T2, really liked the GNR "You Could Be Mine" bit, the GGI Arnold was amazing, So amazing it was awesome. Bale talked like he was still Batman, Worthington's accent kept switching like Costner in Robin Hood. Michael Ironside dies again, poor guy. Skynet get nuked & the chopper just flies away kinda like Indy surviving a nuke blast in that fridge. The Terminators were cool tho & nice to see how Connor got those face scars. The ending was better than I read that leaked out on the net long ago.
It will be interesting to see where they take the next future installments.
Did I mention it was ******* loud! ::)
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I just got back. I dunno, it was definitely the worst Terminator film yet. But it did have some cool stuff too, I'd give it a solid B.
POTENTIAL SPOILERS BELOW!
-I think they tried way too hard to throw in nods and references to the other films. Sometimes it worked ("I'll be back") and other times it was just plain stupid (I think the Arnold 'cameo' looked horrible).
-I didn't like Christian Bale as John Connor. I agree that he still sounds too much like Batman, and it really didn't look like he gave a **** through the whole movie, so that was disappointing.
-The Marcus character was cool, but I saw the heart transplant thing coming from a mile away.
-That actor who plays Kyle Reese (and Chekov in Star Trek) is great, but I think he was really underused in this movie.
-The battle stuff at the beginning kinda sucked, but the battle at Skynet at the end of the film was awesome!
-Here's my only question: So is the cancer lady that was talking to Marcus at the end a T-1000? I didn't really understand her role.
END SPOILERS
Overall I liked it for what it was, but it just didn't really feel right. Meh.
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I just got back. I dunno, it was definitely the worst Terminator film yet. But it did have some cool stuff too, I'd give it a solid B.
POTENTIAL SPOILERS BELOW!
-I think they tried way too hard to throw in nods and references to the other films. Sometimes it worked ("I'll be back") and other times it was just plain stupid (I think the Arnold 'cameo' looked horrible).
-I didn't like Christian Bale as John Connor. I agree that he still sounds too much like Batman, and it really didn't look like he gave a **** through the whole movie, so that was disappointing.
-The Marcus character was cool, but I saw the heart transplant thing coming from a mile away.
-That actor who plays Kyle Reese (and Chekov in Star Trek) is great, but I think he was really underused in this movie.
-The battle stuff at the beginning kinda sucked, but the battle at Skynet at the end of the film was awesome!
-Here's my only question: So is the cancer lady that was talking to Marcus at the end a T-1000? I didn't really understand her role.
END SPOILERS
Overall I liked it for what it was, but it just didn't really feel right. Meh.
I believe the cancer lady was what she appeared to be...someone linked to the science organization working on using human parts to help people with terminal diseases...her company either purchased or was bought out by Cyberdyne. Her appearance as Skynet, was just a way for Marcus's human half to identify with Skynet...I don't think it was the intention for her to be Skynet or a T-1000.
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I believe the cancer lady was what she appeared to be...someone linked to the science organization working on using human parts to help people with terminal diseases...her company either purchased or was bought out by Cyberdyne. Her appearance as Skynet, was just a way for Marcus's human half to identify with Skynet...I don't think it was the intention for her to be Skynet or a T-1000.
I agree. I believe that Skynet (as Helena Bonham Carter) even says something to this effect while speaking to Marcus.
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Helena Bonham Carter was a just a program that was implemented to run the system. I am glad someone else thought the Arnold Cameo was a bit cheesy. The FX are just not there yet to warrant something like this. My prediction is that by the end of the third movie (if they make it that far) that Connor willl somehow end up being a Terminator in some form. I also think that the beginning should have connected more to the other films. There seems to be around 10+ years with no explanation of how the characters arrived to where they are in the movie. Maybe a flashback will be in the next movie explaining this.
Spoiler..............................
Not to address Kate's pregnancy was an ill attempt to leave an open door question for the sequel IMO. It should have been addressed regardless. I just hope that the baby does not end up being someone who has shown up in some form in a previous movie.
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I am still debating whether or not to see this film. Read this article - thought it might be of interest to those of you who saw it. What would you have thought?
http://hollywoodinsider.ew.com/2009/05/the-terminator.html
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If that had been the ending I would have **** in an empty tub of popcorn and thrown it at the screen.
I'm 50/50 on this film as-is and actually if either of the other endings had been in the film instead of the one that was, I would have fallen into the hate it category.
E...
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I can't see that be the ending of the movie... that would be suicide of the franchise.
I saw the movie a few days ago and I didn't think it was horrible. I liked parts of it, but there are somethings that didn't fit well in what I thought of post-apocalyptic future. I always thought of the future as dark and bleak (as we saw in the earlier movies); that humans fought with whatever weapons they had, some cars, jeeps, not with Warthogs. There always seems to be a boiler room fight at the end... Plus, I thought there were too many models of Terminators about (I'm not talking about the foot soldiers but the motocycles, the huge Transformer thing that captures humans and puts them inside a container). I also thought that if the computers were trying to eradicate humans then why did they capture them to use all for the programs?
But it was a cool movie. Glad to see something fun come out.
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I can't decide what I thought of this yet after seeing it last night. I agree with you Vlad on the feel of the "future". It didn't seem the same as what they showed in T2 or even the TV show. I didn't like a lot of the different machines either.
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Saw the movie yesterday - why did it have to be made? Should have just left it alone even though ROTM was kinda lame. I was bored through quite a bit of the movie, but I dug the mega terminator with motorcycles in his legs (have no idea what he's called)
I guess I didn't quite catch the ending on how it worked, but Conner broke into SKYNET and I believe there was only Arnold and one other terminator on screen before the prisoner extraction...Did Marcus shut everything down? Obviously he must have...I guess even though they were still manufacturing. Conner comes in all by himself - then frees the prisoners and tells them to get to evac ships or whatever? I don't remember that being set up. Would be kinda weird though living/working with your father who's only a teenager. I liked the actor who played Kyle though. Thought he did a great job.
Meh...
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Can someone answer this for me. Why didnt the Terminators just go back to an earlier timeline and eliminate anyone who had a chance of changing the future? I know on the Sarah Connor Chronicles that the machines went back to an incorrect timeline and waited for the future to eliminate their targets. Why not just eliminate that persons parents, grandparents, etc. Was this ever explained?
I think there are two reasons. One, which has been covered, is that records aren't fantastic. Some of these people may be hard to track down, especially when you factor in married names or common last names. I've often wondered why skynet didn't just send Terminators back to the early 1900's to wipe people out as well, but I think the concern is that if there was widespread knowledge that Terminators existed, people would take action to make sure that they were never built in the future. Anything that radically changes the timelines could also eradicate skynet. I know the TV show bunks this, but maybe there's even a limitation on how fat back in time they can travel. Maybe the time travel science is only precise enough or powerful enough to travel back to the 80's or later?
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I don't understand what all the harsh criticism is all about. I thought the movie was pretty fun. I don't think what they did with tweaking the established mythology was all that offensive. After all, they're just Terminator movies.
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I think this movie had a lot of potenial. Think of this twist anyone think the Old Lady in the gas station ..could have been..ummm Sarah? That would have a twist..I still think she might be..the Gas station at the end of T1..when she takes the picture..I think if they woyuld have forgot John Connor until the end and just a story about Kyle and his back story..might have been better..
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I watched the movie yesterday and liked it but was sad that arnold wasnt really in it.