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Collectibles => The Vintage Collection => Topic started by: Carpeteria3000 on October 25, 2010, 11:30 AM

Title: Hasbro & Collectors
Post by: Carpeteria3000 on October 25, 2010, 11:30 AM
So I'm in Providence, RI right now, attending the NCMPR conference (basically a conference for public relations and media workers in Community Colleges - I'm here because the lit. mag I run won an award - anyway...), and the keynote speaker from this morning was Terry Scott, a senior VP for Hasbro (which is located in Providence) who manages global marketing and creative services, etc. It was a pretty interesting presentation, which focused on how Hasbro has evolved and is continuing to reinvent itself as more than a toy company, moving towards a multimedia corporation.

One of the more interesting parts to me, as a SW collector, is that, based on the presentation Mr. Scott gave today, Star Wars is not even CLOSE to their main focus - they mentioned it in their powerpoint presentation just a few times throughout. Their focus is very much on the brands they own - Transformers, GI Joe, My Little Pony, board games, etc. I don't think this is news to anyone here, but it was interesting to see just how little they really focused at all on a general Hasbro presentation on anything SW related. He did seem excited to see what would happen in the aftermath of the 3D rereleases, as well as the future prospects of TV shows, but they're committed mainly to their own brands, which makes sense, obviously.

Another area they're not focused on? Collectors, again, pretty obviously. He at one point mentioned the "cellar dwellers", the 20 somethings living at home who buy out of nostalgia, but it was with a sort of sarcastic look to the crowd in passing.

I don't know how much of this is really news, but I thought it worth mentioning here, as usually the interactions any of the collector groups have with Hasbro is directed towards us as an audience, so they know what to say to keep us engaged. It's quite a different rhetoric to the general public. We're not the biggest cash source for them, so it's not without business sense, but the next time you wonder about all the minutia of issues collectors have, keep in mind, they're worried about a far larger picture.
Title: Hasbro & Collectors
Post by: LandotheScoundrel on October 25, 2010, 05:44 PM
That's fine. Apart from the figures I buy from them (getting less and less these days), I don't really care about Hasbro either.

Congrats on the award!
Title: Hasbro & Collectors
Post by: CloneF13Y35 on October 25, 2010, 06:14 PM
Doesn't seem too far fetched. THey are a company that has watch its bottom line and Star wars, while a Major cultural phenomenon, isn't the ONLY thing going on. I liked the toys as a kid and have enjoyed collecting specific things since the new stuff came out a decade ago. I collect the things I like as well as my son. But it became obvious a while back  they don't care about remaking 'everything' we want yet they continue to make figures etc that I don't recall ever wanting as a kid nor any of my fellow collectors have ever wanted.
So many variations of figures have come out that my first reaction is often 'why the hell did they waste time and material making that?'
I just try to enjoy the figures/vehicles that appeal to me and accept that they will make whatever they want to make.
Title: Hasbro & Collectors
Post by: speedermike on October 25, 2010, 10:11 PM
Interesting stuff about the presentation.  I can see their logic though, in the end they will make more off their own ideas than other franchises.  While I've always understood that they don't depend on the adult collectors to support them, if you look what what they've made over the years, we must bring something to the table.  Mon Mothma?  McQuarrie Figs?  Academy Biggs? Kids arent buying these...and  the list could go on and on.

Oh, and if I ever start a collector site, I am going to call it Cellar Dweller!
Title: Re: Hasbro & Collectors
Post by: McMetal on October 26, 2010, 09:19 AM
Great, so given their lack of enthusiasm, can we expect they will not be pushing to renew the license in 2012? Maybe let some other, superior, toy company have a crack at them? (Doubt it)

The SW franchise deserves better than to be some company's red-headed stepchild.

I think 90% of the complaints about the line can be tied back to Hasbro's apparent indifference and inability to coordinate key elements from production to distribution. It's not altogther surprising given how scattered their attention is across all the different properties. I really think the SW line could benefit from moving to a smaller company where they are 100% of the focus, and all the time and energy goes strictly into those offerings.

Obviously there could be possible downsides to that as well, as far as pricing and avilability, but a lot of potential for improvement as well, I think.
Title: Re: Hasbro & Collectors
Post by: Carpeteria3000 on October 26, 2010, 09:59 AM
No, if it was up to them, I don't think Hasbro would give any major license up at all, based on what he said. He was very adamant about Hasbro becoming the #1 toy company and crushing Mattel, and as I wrote, he seemed genuinely interested in what Lucas has coming up with in the near future, including both the 3D films and the television show (which he didn't mention as hypothetical, but as being out by 2012 - he used that year specifically). Of course, he doesn't work directly for Lucasfilm, so that could change, but I didn't get a sense that they weren't proud of having that brand - it was just very clearly not even remotely in their top brands that they focused on. They want to be a full-on multimedia company now, and they can't have any multimedia control over SW, so their focus is on the brands they can control, like GI Joe, Transformers (hence the movie and cartoon series for both), My Little Pony, Littlest Pet Shop, board games, etc. The HUB network they just launched through the Discovery network system is packed full of those brands, and they're moving into a bunch of movie productions, including a GI Joe sequel, and - get this - they showed a behind the scenes package of the shooting of the Battleship movie. It looked dull as hell, but who knows. There will also be a freaking Monopoly movie. No joke. No word on a Scrabble movie, but no doubt it will be in production soon.

It was a fascinating presentation, but the bottom line is that Hasbro wants to totally rule the world - part of the presentation was talking about moving into new markets, starting with China (I guess so they can sell back the crap to the people that make it all in the first place?), moving into Russia, South America, and eventually India. They want total domination over every human's ability to play.
Title: Re: Hasbro & Collectors
Post by: Carpeteria3000 on October 26, 2010, 10:02 AM
I should also note that based on one of the several money graphs he showed, it appeared that SW was their top money brand, interestingly enough, falling just under Barbie and one other brand I can't recall in all worldwide brands. They're happy to be producing it, but it's not their top priority. I think they know they're just printing money off of the Lucasfilm development strategy, but a good portion of that cash must go back to Lucas, of course, as opposed to the brands that are theirs outright. It makes a lot of business sense, when you think about it.
Title: Re: Hasbro & Collectors
Post by: ruiner on October 26, 2010, 10:08 AM
Barbie?  Were they comparing their brands to competitors?
Title: Re: Hasbro & Collectors
Post by: Carpeteria3000 on October 26, 2010, 11:48 AM
Yep. Like I said, they're out for Mattel blood, and it sounds personal beyond the business, since apparently Mattel attempted, in his words, a "hostile takeover" of Hasbro around 2000 when they were near bankruptcy. He was also happy to compare Hasbro's and Mattel's stock prices and shares over the years, and how much they've increased their while Mattel has sagged.
Title: Re: Hasbro & Collectors
Post by: shmashwitdaclub on October 26, 2010, 12:04 PM
I don't think they really have to even worry about it - they know the SW brand is so huge that people will almost throw money at it regardless of what they do with it as a company.  When you have something as golden as that, I wouldn't think one would need to waste time/energy focusing on it - when they could be investing that time/money hopefully creating the next big thing.
Title: Re: Hasbro & Collectors
Post by: Brian on October 26, 2010, 12:13 PM
Interesting to hear this info, and congrats on the award!  Like others have said, it doesn't necessarily surprise me.  Keep in mind, it sounds like the guy making the "cellar dweller" comments about SW fans/etc. is not a guy who even works remotely close to the line(s), but a corporate person.  Despite our ragging on them, I think guys like Derryl DePriest and company actually do care about the collectors and are just doing their jobs when it comes to the focus on CW, repackaged figures, repainted ships, and other things people generally complain about.  Of course Hasbro as a company doesn't care about the collector market, they are most concerned with bottom lines - you hear the same thing about TV/movie studios and other areas of business.

That being said, I do think it is a good point that we help more than they want to admit.  Sure, kiddos and parents are always going to be the bigger sales overall (in a line like this anyways), but there sure is a lot of stuff out there these days and over the past few years that I can't see that kids would be particularly interested in.  I would say, particularly prior to the CW animated series, that collectors were carrying the line even more.  It wasn't a parent or kid that would wipe out an entire new wave and/or case as soon as it hit the pegs.  I personally don't see that happen as much anymore (with all three lines being fairly plentiful right now it seems), but I remember it being that way in the POTJ days through the ROTS line (with the exception of much of the AOTC/SAGA line, that thing sat a bit more).  Anyways, it is an interesting discussion.  I don't think Hasbro will let go of the SW license any time soon either, particularly when there will be movie re-releases, more new animation or other television, and the always rumored possibility of more SW on the big screen.  Like it was mentioned, they are grabbing up licenses like Marvel (with all the movie potential there over the next 5-10 years), so those are obviously a key part of their overall plan.
Title: Re: Hasbro & Collectors
Post by: Nicklab on October 26, 2010, 12:32 PM
I don't think they really have to even worry about it - they know the SW brand is so huge that people will almost throw money at it regardless of what they do with it as a company.  When you have something as golden as that, I wouldn't think one would need to waste time/energy focusing on it - when they could be investing that time/money hopefully creating the next big thing.

Star Wars is a huge brand.  And with that come huge licensing fees.  The reason why Star Wars figures cost so much more than GI Joe is because of those licensing fees.  The margins on Star Wars are significantly tighter than on Hasbro's own intellectual properties.

As for Hasbro regarding the collecting community as "cellar dwellars"?  How is this anything new?  Really.  The collecting community is a very vocal minority.  But it is still very much the minority.  The cumulative dollars we collectors are spending pales in comparison to what almost every mom & dad are shelling out for their kids.  Hasbro has repeated this in the past, and with the collecting community it really has not registered.
Title: Re: Hasbro & Collectors
Post by: Carpeteria3000 on October 26, 2010, 02:40 PM
Interesting to hear this info, and congrats on the award!  Like others have said, it doesn't necessarily surprise me.  Keep in mind, it sounds like the guy making the "cellar dweller" comments about SW fans/etc. is not a guy who even works remotely close to the line(s), but a corporate person. 

He is definitely a corporate guy, being a VP, and I don't think he has any direct link to tooling around the minutia of the lines, but he is definitely involved with the company's direction, and that's just as important as the smaller teams for each brand, if not more so, because that decides what gets the share of their marketing, money, and overall focus. I wouldn't discount the power of he or others at his level in the company.

While the collector communities for any brand are the minority, they obviously still pay attention to us, as any great number of obscure or obvious collection-minded merchandise has been made available to us over the last nearly two decades that the modern line has been around. I don't think they're ignoring us; I just thought that in a presentation to a group who knows nothing about Hasbro at all, that Star Wars was barely a blip on their radar in informing those ignorant of what Hasbro does. I would have thought it would have shared some amount of focus, but it was barely there.

Oh, and thanks for the congrats on the award - it's not a huge one, but it's always nice to be recognized.
Title: Re: Hasbro & Collectors
Post by: Jabba the Slug on November 23, 2010, 12:57 AM
I'm also not really surprised that 'Star Wars' isn't gold to them, but what frustrates me is that they don't really give too big a spit for the people that buy their products.

Give their commentary on Q/A's, for example. A lot of the time they say themselves that they're not worried to much about getting certain characters out per collector request.

Either way, they do listen a lot. But they should keep in mind that we've been supporting them (Star Wars-wise, at least) since the POTF2 days. I think that at least merits us respect and consideration on their part.
Title: Re: Hasbro & Collectors
Post by: McMetal on November 23, 2010, 09:18 AM
Well, I'll say this: if you are an adult collector of the TCW line, Hasbro would like to pretend that you do not exist. I just read another Q&A response from GH where they slapped down the Duchess Satine figure while going out of their way to point out that it's only kids that collect this line.  ::)

Nevermind Satine has had quadruple the screen time of Shaak Ti and she has been involved in way more action sequences. "Kids won't buy her"

As long as you keep repacking Anakin, Ahsoka, and Obi-Wan in every wave, you should have plenty of wiggle room for non-iconic support characters.

I get the economics and demographic angles. I understand I am part of a minority here. But it is not an insignificant minority. I literally buy every single thing they put out in this line, often purchasing multiples for opening. I am hasbro's frigging wet dream of a consumer. Not asking them to bend over backwards or anything, but some acknowledgement would be nice. I don't doubt that there are more adults buying the animated stuff than they suspect.
Title: Re: Hasbro & Collectors
Post by: speedermike on November 23, 2010, 10:57 AM
I agree.  The thing that keeps me interested in SW as a collector is how deep the line goes.  Hell, Hasbro has siad that they won't even male Palpatine from TCW.  C'mon!  We need his.  Repack two clones a wave if you have to, but I want more interesting choices in TCW.  However, I do enjoy that line very mcuh, and also buy one of each, no matter what.

Heh...wet dream of a cunsumer...
Title: Re: Hasbro & Collectors
Post by: Greg on November 23, 2010, 11:47 AM
Well, I'll say this: if you are an adult collector of the TCW line, Hasbro would like to pretend that you do not exist. I just read another Q&A response from GH where they slapped down the Duchess Satine figure while going out of their way to point out that it's only kids that collect this line.  ::)

Nevermind Satine has had quadruple the screen time of Shaak Ti and she has been involved in way more action sequences. "Kids won't buy her"

As long as you keep repacking Anakin, Ahsoka, and Obi-Wan in every wave, you should have plenty of wiggle room for non-iconic support characters.

I get the economics and demographic angles. I understand I am part of a minority here. But it is not an insignificant minority. I literally buy every single thing they put out in this line, often purchasing multiples for opening. I am hasbro's frigging wet dream of a consumer. Not asking them to bend over backwards or anything, but some acknowledgement would be nice. I don't doubt that there are more adults buying the animated stuff than they suspect.

Judging by the Pade figures and Luminara, the females aren't exactly hot sellers. Both Pade figures sat in my area, and they weren't carried forward. Luminara, though under shipped, was the weakest figure of that particular wave. As of this past Saturday, I could snag a Luminara and/or adventure Pade at a local K-Mart. So I don't think Hasbro is far from the mark with their assertion that female figures aren't popular.

Title: Re: Hasbro & Collectors
Post by: Jesse James on November 23, 2010, 04:21 PM
Quote
I don't doubt that there are more adults buying the animated stuff than they suspect.

I do.

I think Hasbro's probably pretty savy about who's buying their CW figures.  There are surely some guys buying, but it's really the vast minority.  The proof is really in the pudding that the line's doing insanely well, and it's rarely getting "new" characters.  That's solid evidence as to who is supporting the Clone Wars figures.  Collectors pass on the repacks, but kids are sucked in.

Comparing Satine and Shaak Ti isn't totally fair either...  Shaak Ti's an alien, a Jedi...  These things play into the mix.  A more close analogy is Padme and Satine, and Padme (Anakin's wife, and an integral figure to not just Clone Wars but the Star Wars Saga overall) does dismally at retail.  There's absolutely no reason to assume Satine would be ok then, but I get the desire for her.

It's a weird place where the line is right now.  The "collector line" is actually a whole separate line, and the kid's line is basically Clone Wars (and Legends, though I think some collectors are expected to support it too, but that's dwindled).  In the past, the collector line was just better poseable figures with cooler accessories and stuff, while the main line aimed at kids were figures with action features, and giant missile firing cannons and crap.

I do think there are some adults really geeked on the animated line, but I just don't think they're a drop in the bucket compared to who is putting the most money in.  And Hasbro said pretty clearly there that they don't want to risk anything bogging that line's sales rates down.  One figure screwing up one wave...  They're avoiding Yularren situations I guess.

And it does suck for the adult collectors of the line, but I don't think Hasbro's misguided in their thinking is all.  With the realistic line they could strike a balance.  I don't think they can do that with a line that seems to really have the support of kids propping it up.

Ultimately though, kids are needed for both lines.  Maybe as time goes on, the CW line will be able to have a better balance to it too?  Right now it's really such a cash cow though, it seems, that Hasbro doesn't want to mess with that.  :-\
Title: Re: Hasbro & Collectors
Post by: McMetal on November 23, 2010, 05:13 PM
it does suck for the adult collectors of the line

Yeah, that's all I'm sayin' really. I don't mean to imply that they're misguided, I'm just bemoaning the fact that the animated line does not seem to aspire to the level of engagement with the consumer that the TVC line does. (horses of a different color, I realize)

I guess when you have a hot commodity that is primarily targeted to kids, and supported by current entertainment, you just don't have to try as hard in that regard. I get that though.



Title: Re: Hasbro & Collectors
Post by: Darby on November 23, 2010, 08:42 PM
This probably belongs in a CW thread but Hasbro's answers this time around actually painted a picture of diminishing returns for collectors with that line.  What I got from the QA was no Satine, no new Fives/Echo, no Master Di, very few new figures next year period.

Doesn't make me, an adult collector and huge CW fan, very excited.
Title: Re: Hasbro & Collectors
Post by: McMetal on November 23, 2010, 09:53 PM
This probably belongs in a CW thread but Hasbro's answers this time around actually painted a picture of diminishing returns for collectors with that line.  What I got from the QA was no Satine, no new Fives/Echo, no Master Di, very few new figures next year period.

Doesn't make me, an adult collector and huge CW fan, very excited.

Yep, and don't forget no more TCW mail-away promotions either.  :'(

Not a very optimistic round of responses this time around...



Title: Re: Hasbro & Collectors
Post by: speedermike on November 23, 2010, 10:23 PM
Regardless, I think that there are plenty of cool CW characters that can still be made.  More of the bounty hunters...The mandalore guys with the big helmets...Greedo...Sy Snoodles...the wierd egyptian aliens that sold the poisoned tea (!)

and I really want the Senate Blue 3PO droid...it's an easy repaint.
Title: Re: Hasbro & Collectors
Post by: JACKOFTRADZE on November 23, 2010, 11:28 PM
Not that I care about the animated figures but the CW mail away answer seemed to contradict itself. Nabar had to have a second run due to them not making enough, I even got a form and just received him 2 weeks ago. So it hardly seemed like a Frito Lay Spirit Obi-Wan promo. Sometime I choose to read between the lines and ignore their answers.

It is possible Bric is failing but they limited themselves to only including the form to CW figures. No Saga Legends come with a form for him.
Title: Re: Hasbro & Collectors
Post by: Matt_Fury on November 23, 2010, 11:53 PM
No saga legends come with the form for Boba Fett either, and they did not come with order forms for the Qui-Gon/Eopie sets either.  You can use the SL UPCs though.

Although I don't collect the animated line, I'm sure they will revisit the mail-away offer in the future.  But the fact is that they are marketing TCW to kids more than collectors and the Vintage line is more towards collectors than kids.
Title: Re: Hasbro & Collectors
Post by: McMetal on November 24, 2010, 10:00 AM
Not that I care about the animated figures but the CW mail away answer seemed to contradict itself. Nabar had to have a second run due to them not making enough, I even got a form and just received him 2 weeks ago. So it hardly seemed like a Frito Lay Spirit Obi-Wan promo. Sometime I choose to read between the lines and ignore their answers.

It is possible Bric is failing but they limited themselves to only including the form to CW figures. No Saga Legends come with a form for him.

I agree, the response did not make sense to me either in light of the successful Vebb promotion. The latest promotion I think was also hurt by the differing mailaway forms - one just for the Battle Mat and then one for Bric AND the battlemat. A plain old battlemat for some game I don't think anyone is even playing is not going to attract much interest.
Title: Re: Hasbro & Collectors
Post by: speedermike on November 24, 2010, 10:04 AM
I think the Bric packaging might be an issue also.  Vebb's package matches the rest of the line, Bric comes in a big box.  I'm an opener, so I could care less, but many fans do care.  Also. when this promotion started, we had no idea who the character was...

Either way, I just got the Vinatge ROTJ wave and holy sh*t!  Hasbro is my new best friend!
Title: Re: Hasbro & Collectors
Post by: Scockery on November 24, 2010, 11:09 AM
it does suck for the adult collectors of the line

Yeah, that's all I'm sayin' really. I don't mean to imply that they're misguided, I'm just bemoaning the fact that the animated line does not seem to aspire to the level of engagement with the consumer that the TVC line does. (horses of a different color, I realize)

I guess when you have a hot commodity that is primarily targeted to kids, and supported by current entertainment, you just don't have to try as hard in that regard. I get that though.

Personally, I think Hasbro "owns" so much of the action figure aisle as is, that they don't have to try very hard. That's why they can not ship new product for once vital properties to stores for 6 months without  a problem.
Title: Re: Hasbro & Collectors
Post by: Jesse James on November 24, 2010, 03:46 PM
I missed the thing about Bric...

Kind of weird.  Though I'm not ordering many because I don't buy enough CW figures, and when I did buy them this year none of them had an order form in them for Bric, so it kind of diminished my interest in multiples.  I'll likely print off another form and order one more, but that's it.

Then again, I've only gotten 2 BOba's too...  I just didnt' order many this time, unlike the Eopie.
Title: Re: Hasbro & Collectors
Post by: Pete_Fett on November 24, 2010, 10:23 PM
I've read through the Q&As and I must have missed it - was there an announcement about Bric?

Should I be concerned that I haven't sent away for him yet?
Title: Re: Hasbro & Collectors
Post by: McMetal on November 24, 2010, 10:49 PM
I've read through the Q&As and I must have missed it - was there an announcement about Bric?

Should I be concerned that I haven't sent away for him yet?


Sorry, wish I could link you directly to the Q&A. but the gist of it was that Hasbro came out and said they will not be doing any more TCW mailaway promotions going forward. Bric will be the last. Apparently the implication is that this promotion is not doing as well as the Vebb one. I just sent away for another one recently, and although it sounds as though they have plenty, I doubt they will commission another run if they should ever start getting low.

Yeah, it's a bummer. I really like Bric too, I only wish he came carded.
Title: Re: Hasbro & Collectors
Post by: Jeff on November 24, 2010, 11:11 PM
I've read through the Q&As and I must have missed it - was there an announcement about Bric?

Sorry, wish I could link you directly to the Q&A. but the gist of it was that Hasbro came out and said they will not be doing any more TCW mailaway promotions going forward. Bric will be the last. Apparently the implication is that this promotion is not doing as well as the Vebb one.

"blah blah blah...  Due to lower response compared to the Vintage or Saga-focused mail-ins, it's unlikely that we'll be doing any more Clone Wars-focused mail-ins." (http://echobase.d2i.net/index.php?PHPSESSID=8212ce17e28a5b50cf288036ad7c7f0e&topic=338.msg2256#msg2256)
Title: Re: Hasbro & Collectors
Post by: Jesse James on November 24, 2010, 11:21 PM
I'm ordering another Bric this weekend I think...  Maybe two.  I need to poo or get off the pot I guess on those anyway, but just drug my feet.  It's a cool figure though.  A shame the mail-ins are dwindling for TCW.  It's a good way to unveil new characters and peak curiosity with people.
Title: Re: Hasbro & Collectors
Post by: Phrubruh on November 25, 2010, 11:11 AM
I blame the way they advertised it. They put a little blurb on the top of the bubble where no one will see it. They needed a sticker on the front with a picture of the figure like they did for Boba and Vebb. It didn't help that half of them talked about a play mat instead of the figure too.
Title: Re: Hasbro & Collectors
Post by: Greg on November 25, 2010, 11:36 AM
I blame the way they advertised it. They put a little blurb on the top of the bubble where no one will see it. They needed a sticker on the front with a picture of the figure like they did for Boba and Vebb. It didn't help that half of them talked about a play mat instead of the figure too.

Maybe it also didn't help that there are two offers at the same time. If collectors (or kids) had to choose one, I think Boba would win out. Even though the Eopie and Nadarr offers did have some overlapping time, the Eopie offer started in mid-2009 and Nadarr started in early 2010.
Title: Re: Hasbro & Collectors
Post by: Jabba the Slug on November 27, 2010, 02:24 PM
So to compile what people have said:

1. poopy advertising: plain yellow sticker at the very top of the bubble (if anything, remove those useless "Secret" Code stickers and put the Bric stickers there.

2. two concurrent mail-aways at the same time: rocket-firing toys, I'm pretty sure, attract kids more over some unheard-of big-headed dude with no play features.

I also think it has to do with character choice. Keep in mind Nahdar Vebb was a top-wanted character, and Hasbro had always said 'no' to us. But then give us Bric, especially when we have no clue who he is. Even when Rex was a mail-away, there was demand because the new movie and entire series was coming out, and he's also one of the main characters.
Title: Re: Hasbro & Collectors
Post by: Greedo The Green Menace on November 28, 2010, 06:18 AM
As far as Bric goes, I kind of side on the fact that many of the mail away forms weren't very clear/didn't mention a figure at all for the reason Bric hasn't done as well according to Hasbro. I've bought a whole bunch of the new clone wars figures and not one of them came with a mail away form that mentioned Bric at all, just the battle mat game. I know I personally waited until this was cleared up by Hasbro before actually mailing away for it since I had no interest in paying for just the battle mat. I imagine this is much the same for the casual kid/parent buyers as well. I think this little error might have hurt Bric a lot more than any lack of interest.