Multimedia => The Original Trilogy => Topic started by: Hes No Good to Me Dead on August 18, 2005, 10:14 PM

Title: Are Stormtroopers Clones?
Post by: Hes No Good to Me Dead on August 18, 2005, 10:14 PM
I need to settle a bet. Are all the stormtroopers clones? Or are the recruits?
Title: Re: Are Stormtroopers Clones?
Post by: Jediknight760071 on August 18, 2005, 10:22 PM
No one's ever gonna have a straight (accepted) answer for you.

EDIT: I told you so! :)  :-*
Title: Re: Are Stormtroopers Clones?
Post by: Jesse James on August 18, 2005, 10:50 PM
There's several ways of looking at this...

-The "Official" stance Lucasfilm Ltd. currently takes with this issue is that Stormtroopers (within the classic era) are a mix of Recruits, and Clones of various hosts (Fett Clones among other hosts chosen intelligently and beaurecratic back-scratchingly).  This makes EU jive on all levels with the films, etc...

-Lucas probably intended them to be Clones.  Intent means nothing in Star Wars though other than it's nice if that's what you agree with or not.  Interpretation then's all up to the "critic" if you will.

-The films give no definite answer of course, other than they're Clones up to E3, and then come E4 they're seemingly different guys at least to an extent.  To that end, you could just as easily counter LFL's position by saying no they're all recruits because in the end it's an EU debate, not one within the films.

For myself, I currently hold that they're recruits.  E3 ended with some pretty happy campers in the Senate...  I think the Empire was a popular movement, and was widely accepted around the galaxy save for some idealists, some stronger-willed beings, some isolationist planets, etc...  Thus the Rebellion Nucleus is made up of those types.

Lucasfilm's little explanation of everything isn't bad though...  It keeps EU storylines like Kyle Katarn's, Bren Tantor's, or whoever else that has a Stormtrooper history, right in line with the films it just twists what we thought was the truth around some, and introduces Clones into the Classic Trilogy.  That's fine, it just isn't what I currently personally go with, but that's me.

If I were to go with that explanation, I think I'd twist it to my own liking some...  Something along the lines of Officers within the Stormtroopers being sentient recruits, and Stormtrooper training/leading being a major stepping stone in an Officer's career in the military...  Like at one point Veers donned the armor and led a squad in battle personally.  Then the "lower" Stormtroopers are all Clones of Jango (I don't like the introduction of multiple hosts and I don't necessarilly buy into the "degrading genetic material" bull**** about why no Jango Clones exist, etc.).

That's if I were to personally go with the LFL explanation, which I don't...  yet.  Recruits has worked fine for me.  It makes customizing more fun too when you can pick whatever face you want under the helmet. :)
Title: Re: Are Stormtroopers Clones?
Post by: Hes No Good to Me Dead on August 19, 2005, 12:18 AM
I guess neither of us a going to win the bet.

If they are recruits, why are they only recruting humaniods? Surely there would be a few alien looking creatures that would like to join the Empire? This alone lead be to believe they were still cloning well after the Empire was created.
Title: Re: Are Stormtroopers Clones?
Post by: Jesse James on August 19, 2005, 01:14 AM
If the Empire's instituting xenophobic/speciesist policies though as its power is consolidated though, then alien cultures become less important to their military machine.  But there again it depends if you agree with them being xenophobic and also depends on how you view humans in the galaxy...  Like if they're the dominant species by a long shot or what.  They certainly seem it.

I'm all for the idea that the Empire has anti-alien views and all that stuff, but some disagree with that because the films don't really say it outright plus the Alliance is sporting a ton of Aliens either until the battle of Endor we see them...  But all-human (or nearly all human) institutes within the Alliance are definitely possible (especially if humans are, again, the dominant species of the galaxy).  It's all very complex though because it's so easy for nobody to agree.

I guess the bet is still open though man. :) 
Title: Re: Are Stormtroopers Clones?
Post by: Hes No Good to Me Dead on August 19, 2005, 10:40 AM
The xenophobic theme could have possibly been in the mind of Mr Lucas when he was writing the scripts. I mean there are too many comparisions to WWII Germany for it too be a conincidence. The fact that they are called Stormtroopers suggests enough.

I don't know nearly as much as most people when it comes to the Star Wars EU, but I'm going for the theory that they are clones.
Title: Re: Are Stormtroopers Clones?
Post by: Jesse James on August 19, 2005, 04:24 PM
Stormtrooper's a generic term really though, not one that is nazi-centric, but Lucas has said he definitely had tied the Empire to Nazi Germany in several ways...  He's never said they were xenophobic though, and many blame EU for that... 

Still, it's what I believe...  But what Lucas meant, who knows.  The guy's so all over the place sometimes.
Title: Re: Are Stormtroopers Clones?
Post by: DoctorPadawan on August 19, 2005, 07:28 PM
Today's magic question: can DoctorPadawan attempt to explain his own theory as to the origins of the OT Stormtroopers to the rest of the boards without them thinking him crazy for utilizing a Michael Keaton movie as one of his key points of support?  Tune in to the next paragraph and find out!  ;D

Okay, here's my theory on the OT Stormtroopers, which isn't so much about them, but about "what happened to the Jango clones and why don't the Stormtroopers sound like Jango?"

In AOTC (23 years before ANH), we are first introduced to the cloning facilities on Kamino.  The "ready" batch of Clones there had been created ten years prior to Obi-Wan landing there.  As a result of the growth acceleration, these clones were approximately 20 years old, which basically makes clear that the clone growth rate is double that of a normal human.  Okay, no problem so far.  The Clones resemble a young Jango Fett in facial appearance, and are direct genetic replication of Jango.

In ROTS, when we see Cody without his helmet, he and many of the other clones standing around in the ship look like Jango (obviously, since Temeura Morrison played "them").  By this point, the Clones from AOTC would have aged another six years, making them 26 years old.  I think you see where I'm going with this.

Come ANH, 33 years have passed since the creation of the first batch of Clones on Kamino.  This would make the Clones that took part in the Battle of Geonosis 66 years of age, and most likely receiving the Empire's equivalent of SSI by the time Luke Skywalker leaves Tatooine.  Even the last of Jango's 1st Gen Clones (those that were made from his DNA directly; this will be important in a minute) would be reaching their mid-50s by the time the Tantive IV is captured by Vader, so they would either be retired from field duty, or they would be in the upper echelons of the military command, overseeing things from a non-direct base of operations.

Now, everyone pretty much goes by the theory that the ST in the OT are a combination of Clones from other genetic templates and conscripts from the Academy we hear mentioned.  What isn't addressed is why they became such horrible shots and only about a 10th as efficient as the Clones in the PT.  And that's where Michael Keaton comes in.

In the movie "Multiplicity" (which many of you may have seen), Michael Keaton's character creates a clone of himself, which works out fairly well, but since it is a copy, it isn't as "good" as the original (Keaton).  More clones are made, and one of the clones (the fifth one, I think) is basically functionally retarded because he is the clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of the original host.  Try photocopying a fifth gen letter and it's not going to be all that clear. 

So, I think that when Jango died, the genetics he left behind were pretty much tapped out by the end of the Clone Wars.  The Emperor, wanting his mindless controllable army to be ready and having already conquered the galaxy, didn't put so much time into the genetics side of things, and probably just told Lama Su and the Kaminoans to go ahead and clone the first gen Clones, after all, what harm could it do?

So, as the 20 years between the end of the Clone Wars and the beginning of ANH passed, the Kaminoans had to keep cranking out copies of copies of copies of copies, which were naturally not going to be as good as the first gen copies or Jango Fett, for that matter.  By the time we get to Tatooine in Episode IV, the Stormtroopers that are still Clones of Jango are probably a fifth gen copy of a copy of a copy of a copy, or a functionally retarded Michael Keaton, so to speak.  Hence why they don't sound like Jango, hence why they can't shoot straight, hence why they are lucky they can walk in a straight line, and hence why the Jedi Mind Trick works so easily on these "military masters" when Obi-Wan tricks them in Mos Eisley.

And that, ladies and gentlemen, is my crackpot theory on the Clone = Stormtrooper debate.  You can commence your laughter now. :)
Title: Re: Are Stormtroopers Clones?
Post by: Hes No Good to Me Dead on August 19, 2005, 08:28 PM
I wished they had cloned Micheal Keaton and used him in Batman III, IV and V. They might have had to change the title of V to Batman Retards.
Title: Re: Are Stormtroopers Clones?
Post by: CHEWIE on August 19, 2005, 11:46 PM
DP, that's a great theory.  Now I need to go see that Michael Keaton movie.

Title: Re: Are Stormtroopers Clones?
Post by: Jesse James on August 20, 2005, 12:06 AM
What isn't addressed is why they became such horrible shots and only about a 10th as efficient as the Clones in the PT. 

There are EU answers to this though...  And some film evidence that discounts Stormies being "bad" at their job as well.

First, the Dark Forces game was the first EU attempt at explaining the E-11's ineffective accuracy.  It fits with what the E-11's actually earth-based counterpart is.  It's a small, sub-machine gun.  For WW2 buffs it's the equivalent of a Thompson compared to a Garand...  The Garand was a much more efficient weapon at long ranges and in squads, but the Thompson was a one-man wrecking crew in short-ranges, and a good single-man support weapon for a squad.

Dark Forces shows the E-11 as being not WILDLY inaccurate, but it's not a gun you aim unless you "modify" it with a tactical scope (arguably this is a secondary setting for the gun, kinda like the stun setting they have, that requires modular parts to enhance the gun...  It's still not perfect long-range weaponry though).

The Clones have a similar support weapon too...  The one that climbs the crabdroid and empties a clip is seemingly similar to the E-11.

So DarkForces (and subsequent games in that series) have sort of established the E-11 as just an inaccurate gun...  If we take those into account, it works.  They're rapid fire, "spray and pray" type weapons, and if all your guys are carrying that it's a crazy scenario.  Plus the E-11 seems to be a sidearm of some sort in the Empire as well...  Some Sandtroopers carry them while also carrying a larger, longer-barreled weapon that is presumeably more accurate.

It's possible the gun such as Chewie's Stormie rifle he runs around on the Death Star with, or other "Sandtrooper" weapons are then the weapons issued an Imperial "in the field" while the E-11 becomes somewhat a secondary weapon in some cases.

The gun Chewie has, interestingly enough, had a rack of them in the Hangar Control Room...  Could be that the more accurate gun is there to fire from the control room should a situation like that arise.  A wide open space like that hangar, and that'd make perfect sense really to have a little stash of those from a high vantage point like that.

Anyway, second point about Stormtrooper accuracy...  They're only seemingly inaccurate with main characters in Star Wars.  That I can buy into as "it's just a movie".  I mean, it has to be that way really, so reality sort of goes out the window.  "Heroes Luck" is what I chalk it up to then.

But when the EMpire's attacking Hoth, clearing out the Tantive IV, or frying Ewoks...  They're fairly efficient with the E-11.  The Tantive IV troops are mowed down like crabgrass.  Hoth troopers fall back from not only armor assault but also a noted mechanized infantry push who seemed armed with support guns and E-11's exclusively (from what we could see...  Unseen in any SW situation is always a major variable to consider...  The troops we do see are clearing a "tight" space out though so the E-11 does make sense there again).

Lots of possibilities for either argument as to Clones, recruits, or a mix of the two...  I've always felt Stormtroopers got shafted on their efficiency though.  When compared to their Rebel enemies (who are quite capable soldiers themselves depending on if you buy into EU or not), the Stormies are deadly efficient.
Title: Re: Are Stormtroopers Clones?
Post by: Nathan on August 20, 2005, 03:00 PM
-The "Official" stance Lucasfilm Ltd. currently takes with this issue is that Stormtroopers (within the classic era) are a mix of Recruits, and Clones of various hosts (Fett Clones among other hosts chosen intelligently and beaurecratic back-scratchingly).  This makes EU jive on all levels with the films, etc...

Yep, that's what I follow, since it's a great catchall explanation.
Title: Re: Are Stormtroopers Clones?
Post by: blaster_e11 on October 7, 2005, 07:10 AM
i see this question (among others) is a fascinating one among star wars fans (at least on message boards)  ;)
Title: Re: Are Stormtroopers Clones?
Post by: Mr.el lucco on October 20, 2005, 09:05 PM
There are some recruits and some clones. kyle was once a storm trooper there are also maney others that are not clones. SORRY.I mean it.
Title: Re: Are Stormtroopers Clones?
Post by: JesseVader08 on October 20, 2005, 10:50 PM
There is absolutely no need to post in such a manner. 
Title: Re: Are Stormtroopers Clones?
Post by: Nirvana on November 7, 2005, 03:00 PM
I was playing Battlefront 2, and as I was playing its campaign, the 501st stormtroopers, it said that the Empire was then taking recruits (normal people) but then it said, we under the 501st Legion remained pure (clones). So I guess it's just a mix, some people and some clones.
Title: Re: Are Stormtroopers Clones?
Post by: Angry Ewok on November 7, 2005, 09:38 PM
Sorry, darth_nirvana, but I refuse to accept Battlefront 2's Storyline as a reference for any sort of debate at all - the storyline isn't believable or accurate in the least bit, even with the SW Databanks backing it all up (to sell the game), I don't believe it was ever intended to be 'canon' in any shape or form...

The game credits the 501st Legion as having won the battles of Geonosis, Kashyyyk, Kamino, Felucia, Salecumi, Mygeeto, Mustafar, Naboo, the taking of the Tantive, protecting the Death Star, etc, etc... What a load of crap.

That's a bit off topic, though -

Are Stormtroopers Clones?

My answer - No. As it has been pointed out, the youngest batch of clones in Episode 3 (roughly 20 years old) would have been 40 years old by the time 'A New Hope' rolled into place. I believe that this last batch (assuming it was the last batch) was dispersed about the expanding Empire with the task of training Garrisons for local Governments. Each Garrison would have a small working staff of clones responsible for paving the future for the Empire...

Is the Empire Xenophobic?

My answer - For the most part, yes. That I'm aware of, only Grand Admiral Thrawn has been named as being an Imperial Officer, and its been said that he was held down from promotion for a long while simply because of his being alien. The Wookies were enslaved, as were the Noghri, and I'm sure other species, and EU credits the Empire for having whiped out entire civilizations for their being alien.

Title: Re: Are Stormtroopers Clones?
Post by: Carjup Bejewel on November 25, 2005, 04:18 PM
Of course stormtroopers are clones. have you not seen Episode III
Title: Re: Are Stormtroopers Clones?
Post by: Ginanalbri on November 26, 2005, 08:20 PM
Stormtroopers are not clones because in the books of Obi-Wan while he watches over Luke shows that there are some clones but most are now just human. plus they don't sound like Jango at all.
Title: Re: Are Stormtroopers Clones?
Post by: TheBlackDog65 on November 27, 2005, 10:29 AM
Yep, Jude Watson makes it cannon!  Also, are there specific references to the Last of the Jedi books that you can provide as reference. I've read them with my son and never taken that away from the books, but then again, life has been hectic this fall.
Title: Re: Are Stormtroopers Clones?
Post by: Clone Commander on December 6, 2005, 12:28 AM
Well I would like to think that they are a mixture.
Title: Re: Are Stormtroopers Clones?
Post by: Jesse James on December 6, 2005, 01:53 AM
I'm a strong advocate of believe what you want to believe, but there is no definite answer to this question so "yes of course they are (aren't)" kind of replies are baseless and add nothing.

Lucasfilm has the stance that during the Empire (and its rise) Clones are mixed with recruited sentients to fill the Stormtrooper ranks.  This is basically a way of them taking the implied notion that they're Clones by Lucas himself and the Expanded Universe that, for decades, de-cloned the Imperial army and said they were recruited individuals.

That's LFL's stance, but not canon...  Just a nice way to simplify an unanswerable argument/debate.  Their stance says the Clones are from a variety of hosts that aren't all the swiftest in military expertise either, but rather picked for their political ties...  This, to me, is total bull**** because I think the whole concept of ST's being "bad shots" and inept soldiers is pretty much a falacy.  ST's mop up the floor with Rebel Soldiers on Hoth, Endor, and aboard the Tantive IV.  Kenobi himself says the shots on the Crawler were too accurate for anyone but ST's (I don't view him as trying to sway anyone, he's merely pointing out what he sees as a fact).

ST's just can't hit Han, Luke, Leia, etc. because well it'd be a hell of a hard story to tell if all the characters died off quickly.  It's like playing a video game with the utmost in realistic settings.  If you tried playing Medal of Honor as if it were a real game, you'd not get off the beach during the D-Day landings because in real life you die...  Or you're lucky and live.  In Star Wars the heroes live because they have to so the story can be told, not because Stormtroopers are inaccurate Degenerated DNA soldier rejects.  That's just people not being capable of thinking outside the box IMO.


That's LFL's thing.  Others think that all Stormtroopers are Clones and they choose to disevow all the EU that says otherwise.  I actually think Lucas himself feels this way but he never clearly states it in the films for one reason or another.  He is known for wanting to contradict EU at times but being "persuaded" not to do so...  He supposedly didn't want to use Coruscant as the planet's name since Zahn created it, but he was "persuaded" to do so by people within LFL....  Fine.  Lucas isn't the end-all-be-all answer to anything Star Wars really if you choose NOT to listen to him.  That's simply your way of viewing his art, and he can't sway you one way or another.  It'd be like Michelangelo appearing while you mull over his statue of David and telling you WHAT to see instead of your mind telling you what you see.  We had a lotta conversation about this very concept in my Tolkien Studies course as we read Lord of the Rings.

Other people believe Stormies are all recruits...  At present that's my take because recruitment/training is a much faster means of building an army since Cloning took 10 years for them to mature to a fighting age, and ultimately I just like thinking that the galaxy was READY for an Empire.  That the majority in the galaxy were so dejected with political affairs under the Republic, that people were so anti-alien/pro-Palpatine, that people were so ready for law/order and peace (remember, it's preached in E3, and a focal point of WHY the Empire is good), that they welcome the Empire with wide open arms... 

Is everyone happy?  No, but in the grand scheme of things the vast majority I believe are, there's lots of positives the Empire offers, and the Empire manages to hide the things it does that aren't so nice for quite a while...  Or people are just as happy they did them.  I mean if there's a lot of anti-alien sentiment, does anyone care if aliens are enslaved?  Some planets will, but the Empire could be made of a majority who look down on the Wookiee Species for helping the Jedi who many perceive as trying to overthrow the Republic and take control via the confusion of the Clone Wars...  People are taught to hate/fear the Jedi's, and that a lot of their plight in life is from their kind.

Anyway, that's just some of MY perspective but it's still not canon by any means...  Canon's just what's in the films and undisputable by other sources as far as argument goes.  But how you view the films, the EU, and all other facets of the Star Wars galaxy is personal interpretation, and with that there are no "rules" to live by...  Canon included.  It just makes no sense to come into a discussion about the SW galaxy though and say, "yeah well I don't believe that even if it was in the film so your point doesn't matter".  That's fine to feel that way, but it doesn't make for good discussion/argument. :)

I'm to the point I could buy the LFL stance of Recruits mixed with Clones (I don't buy the various host theory though and I'd envision ALL Clones being Jango Clones, till the clones in Zahn's trilogy but that's another topic).  That's a nice way of accepting the film's implications and the EU all in one nice neat package.  Right now though I'm still leaning towards ALL recruits in the Empire though.  It adds a vastness to the galaxy that I love too...  That they could recruit that many possibly Trillions (or even more?) people into their military juggernaught.  That's practically impossible to even fathom for me, but that adds so much to Star Wars for me too.
Title: Jango is not the unique head aviable for stormtroopers
Post by: EpicGon on July 19, 2008, 02:14 AM
As stated in anh visual guides on last 2007, both Praji and Jir families of imperial officers have donated genetic templates for Imperial stormtrooper development programs. So in the case of see an unmasked stormie Jango head won´t be the unique avaiable face for this kind of trooper.

This would be the base to expand the range of characters variations in Expanded Universe Comics and of course a motif for variations in heads for future Hasbro stormtroopers, sandtroopers, etc.

In TFU we learn a variety of ranks of stormies according to the color of their armor. Other reason to suppose that variation in heads is the armor of st used by Bren and Dellis Tantor in Force Commander video game. So if to wear an armor a man don´t need to be a clone, this will be the source for head variations.
Title: Re: Are Stormtroopers Clones?
Post by: Darth_Anton on August 14, 2008, 09:58 AM
I wish I had kept that article dated 1978 that explicitly stated that Stormtroopers were clones.
Title: Re: Are Stormtroopers Clones?
Post by: JangoTat on August 14, 2008, 10:59 AM
I wish I had kept that article dated 1978 that explicitly stated that Stormtroopers were clones.

The card back of the POTF stormtrooper suggest that they may be clones too.
Title: Re: Are Stormtroopers Clones?
Post by: Jesse James on August 14, 2008, 02:08 PM
Lucas didn't alter it in the SE's but altered Boba's voice...  That alone says 100% to me that he either wants them NOT be Clones, not all the same type of Clones, or he wanted ambiguity for the expanded universe to fit.  That trumps whatever he said in 1978 too IMO.  He has the technology to change the voices and didn't, so he's leaving it open for some reason or another.
Title: Re: Are Stormtroopers Clones?
Post by: McMetal on June 22, 2010, 10:32 AM
The simplest and most sensible answer IMHO is that they're just clones. You can dream up any of a dozen different reasons why they would have lost their accent, that's a minor detail.

As far as I'm concerned, any sort of anti-clone argument that uses any EU material as "proof" is flimsy at best. I can dream up any old nonsense and throw it in my blog and that holds about as much legitimacy.

Rant over.
Title: Re: Are Stormtroopers Clones?
Post by: JediJman on June 22, 2010, 01:45 PM
I think it’s at least an easy argument that they’re not all Jango clones.  We know that the clones had an accelerated life-span, so it’s pretty unlikely that all the stormies we see are the equivalent of senior citizens.  They also clearly state in the movies that Jango has to return periodically to supply fresh DNA for new batches of clones, so no Jango means no Jango clones. 

I’m going with the stormies being a mix of clones and just regular enlisted joes.  There are certainly plenty of people who probably wanted to sign up for the military, so makes sense to me that you’d take what’s readily available for free versus producing more (costly, time consuming) clones.  That also helps explain size differences in some of the troopers seen in the movies, differences in voices, etc.

From a more subjective viewpoint, I also think the Emperor would have started “dumbing down” his troopers after he took power.  Clones can obviously be pre-programmed for certain orders, so why take the chance that some rebel group could infiltrate their programming and turn them against the Empire?  There seems to be a very obvious and deliberate choice in the OT to make imperials expendable (why don’t TIEs come with shields?), which again makes me think the preferred strategy is to overwhelm with numbers, but in turn having less effective individual units in case they change sides.
Title: Re: Are Stormtroopers Clones?
Post by: Jesse James on June 22, 2010, 03:46 PM
It's EU to say they're all CLones as well...  There's no proof either way, so "EU nonsense as an argument" applies both directions.

To me, the galaxy's littered with people and the Empire could not have survived without popularity backing it...  The Clone Wars ended with the possibility of a strong anti-alien sentiment/movement that the Empire capitalized on, the human worlds then had recruits wanting to sign up.  There's a pretty extensive supply of soldiers right there.  It also would take less time to train a soldier than grow a clone...  Cloning just isn't as practical, if you have the means at your disposal to recruit and train perfectly willing individuals.  Looking at the rest of the Empire, it's quite clear there's an extensive line of willing/able volunteers considering every ship and station seemed to have plenty of sentient recruits.

I think the Empire came in with quite a bit of popularity...  It's the Alliance who'd struggle for membership, and the Empire would have people gladly signing up.  And so no Clones for me right now.  I could see SOME Stormtrooper legions being Clones simply to have some on-hand though, but I think the majority of Clones are phased out.  Hell it's why the Clone Wars are sort of talked about like "That time was long ago".  Clones just aren't in vogue anymore.
Title: Re: Are Stormtroopers Clones?
Post by: McMetal on June 23, 2010, 09:15 AM
I think if that was true Leia would never have made the comment about Luke being "a little short" for a Stormtrooper. If any old schmoe could be a Stormie she wouldn't have batted an eye. But the fact that she picked up on Luke's height right away implies to me that all the Stormies are of identical physical dimensions, IE: clones.

The whole thing about "running out of DNA" seems rather sketchy to me, as they could simply grow more samples in the lab, if only in a petri dish.

Another explanation would be that they're continuing to take samples from Boba Fett. That's probably why Vader had him on Speed Dial when he needed bounty hunter services. It's not like no one would have made the connection to Jango.

And the point about the Empire not wanting to get infiltrated by rebels seems plausible to me and would support the Clones only theory, as well as the whole implied xenophobia thing.

You really can go either way, I just have a lot more logical problems with the idea that they're NOT clones. That seems way more complicated to me.

Title: Re: Are Stormtroopers Clones?
Post by: P-Siddy on June 23, 2010, 09:31 AM
I'll go with clones since after years of use, Jango's material gets so diluted that the troopers get real bad aim during the Rebellion.  ;) But obviously there were humans among them. Didn't Praji attend squad down to Tatooine to hunt down the droids?
Title: Re: Are Stormtroopers Clones?
Post by: Jesse James on June 23, 2010, 04:08 PM
I think if that was true Leia would never have made the comment about Luke being "a little short" for a Stormtrooper.

So all the height requirements in the earth militaries of history mean they were all Clones too? :)

Height requirements for jobs in the military haven't been that uncommon.  It could be simply the Empire doesn't want tiny guys to be their "shock troops", since the intent of the "shock troop" (at least visibly) is to instill some fear. 

That said though, Leia hardly was serious...  It wasn't like she said very suspiciously, "Aren't you short for a stormtrooper?", like she was surprised.  She was making fun of him it seemed, thinking he was just another goon coming to bring her to Vader or something, and Luke is quite short, so it's a moot point I think anyway.

As far as genetic material degredation, I think that's pretty common, but I don't know much about it...  They did say they kept Jango around for that though, and Boba is a Clone so he's not exactly the best option either.  Same with growing more samples.  You cannot replace the original perhaps, which seems plausible since they were hanging onto Jango and "paying him a considerable fee" to do so.  Why bother if you can just scrape the fingernails of any random Clone?

The Empire surely wouldn't want infiltrated by Rebels, but it still happens.  Clones or not Clones, it didn't seem to matter, so again that's not really a solid argument for or against.

I'm sticking with the simplest argument then...  The Empire's described as "a million million worlds", and at ROTS's end, it seems like quite a popular idea among the majority.  "This is how liberty dies, with thunderous applause".  The people LIKED the Empire idea.  They liked what it offered.  There would be a trough of individuals ready to jump at the chance to serve it if it's so popular.  Hell, there were probably already enough to serve it during the Clone Wars, they just used Clones because they're perceived as dispensible during a war, whereas recruits are not...  When the war ends, those willing to serve would likely increase by quite a lot, especially when everyone loves the ideas the Empire was feeding.  "Freeing the galaxy of tyranny, making life peaceful and prosperous", and so on. 

I'm not totally opposed to some Clones still being on-hand, but I think the vast majority of the Empire is made up of recruits.  It's what EU's supported, and it's even supported by the films somewhat, so I'm sticking with that.  I love the Clones from the era they're from, and how the "Clone Wars" is talked about like that was a long time ago, and those things don't go on now...  Otherwise I suppose they'd call the war with the Rebellion the 2nd Clone War, rather than the Galactic Civil War. :)
Title: Re: Are Stormtroopers Clones?
Post by: Greedo The Green Menace on June 23, 2010, 10:02 PM
I always figured Leia's "little short for a stormtrooper" line was just her being defiant and snarky rather than it implying that she found it genuinely strange that the stormtrooper that just walked in her cell was too short to actually be one. It's just her personality. She also said she recognized Tarkins foul stench when she was brought on board, but that doesn't nessesarily mean that Tarkin actually had a problem with not bathing.

Title: Re: Are Stormtroopers Clones?
Post by: Jesse James on June 24, 2010, 01:39 AM
She also said she recognized Tarkins foul stench when she was brought on board, but that doesn't nessesarily mean that Tarkin actually had a problem with not bathing.

That was funny and a good point all in one stroke...  Made me laugh.
Title: Re: Are Stormtroopers Clones?
Post by: Scockery on January 4, 2011, 12:07 AM
Mark Hamill's IMDB profile lists him as 5' 9" (likely inaccurate, he's shorter more like 5' 7"). Temeura Morrison's lists his height as 5' 7".

Go figure.
Title: Re: Are Stormtroopers Clones?
Post by: Jesse James on January 4, 2011, 12:11 AM
That's funny, and falls perfectly in line with everything else that wasn't looked into before the prequals were made.  Watch the "Aren't you a little short" line get cut from the next Star Wars re-release because, as always, we're changing the OT to match the PT rather than the reverse.