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Messages - Lestat

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TV-9D9 / Re: The death or disappearance of Ahsoka?
« on: February 5, 2011, 02:29 PM »
I assumed when ahsoka was introduced that she was going to die and that would push Anakin towards the dark side. However, as the series goes on it doesn't really seem necessary. It would make more sense (as far a ROTS) that she either achieve the rank of knight with Anakin as her master or that she be removed from Anakin and trained by someone else. Either scenario gives more sting to the council not making him a master and doesn't contradict ROTS. Then the assumption would be that she was just killed by order 66.

I bet you the eventual "ROTS special edition" has a digital Ahsoka running around in the background on Coruscant. ::)

TV-9D9 / Re: The Clone Wars - Season Three Discussion Thread
« on: February 5, 2011, 02:17 PM »
This story arc is really weird. I thought the characters were manifestations of the force. I didn't really get how they could die as they didn't seem to be people. Hopefully the third episode will explain all of this. I wish they would show Anakin at least being tempted by the Dark side. He never seems the least bit interested in doing anything even a little evil. I was hoping that the show would showcase his journey to the dark side a little more. In the movie he takes a couple of baby steps towards the dark side and then all of a sudden he's ready to murder children.

If arguing about canon is pointless and stupid then why are you even bothering with this thread? Regardless, this debate has become pointless so I think I'm about done.

Star Wars Universe / Re: Which Star Wars Movie Do You Watch the Most?
« on: February 3, 2011, 02:35 PM »
I watch Empire and Jedi the most.

I couldn't agree with you more on it being a "when" as opposed to an "if". There is just too much money to be made. Where LFL decides to go with it is the question.

Look at all the detail behind levels of canon.  Like I siad, pretty silly debate.

The debate is as silly as caring about Star Wars at all. Grown men collecting toys and dressing up as Boba fett is silly too but it is fun. In the same vein, debating the nuances of a galaxy far, far awy may be silly but it is also entertaining to talk about. Isn't that the point of having the forum? :)

TV-9D9 / Re: The Clone Wars - Season Three Discussion Thread
« on: February 3, 2011, 12:19 PM »
Either way though, this goes to my reply to your point in the other thread, that nothing is "canon" unless Lucas says so, and he only says so on what he has his hands involved in any capacity.  That's why LFL has always said the rest is just part of their blanket "Official Continuity" response.  It's a clever way for them to disevow things Lucas decides he wants to explore more of when he decides he needs more money.

I get that and agree with you. I just think it's crap. I don't specifically care that a canon exists or that it doesn't, just make a decision and stick with it. I mean no one gets irritated when Batman:TAS doesn't gel with what happens in batman begins because they aren't supposed to match up. Between the comics, two cartoon shows, and the movies there are at least four different batman continuities going at the same time right now and it works just fine. It's when you say that everything is a part of a larger puzzle and don't go to the trouble to make sure the pieces fit that people get annoyed.

I actually did what you suggested and googled "Star Wars" Canon. What I found was that there are levels of Canon with the movies taking ultimate precedence. EU is considered to be Canon, however if it contradicts something that has a higher level of presidence (like the movies) then the movies trump.

"By 1996, Licensing was keeping an in-house bible of reference materials as the volume of publications, facts, and figures grew to such unwieldy proportions that it became difficult to know everything relevant to a particular project. They finally decided something had to be done to organize the increasingly large collection of media which chronicled the Star Wars universe. A system of canon was developed that organized the materials into what was and wasn't fit for the Star Wars story.

In 2000, Lucas Licensing appointed Leland Chee to create a continuity tracking database referred to as the "Holocron". As with every other aspect having to do with the overall story of Star Wars, the Holocron follows the canon policy that has been in effect for years.

The Holocron is divided into 5 levels (in order of precedence): G-canon, T-canon, C-canon, S-canon, and N-canon.

G-canon is absolute canon; the movies (their most recent release), the scripts, the novelizations of the movies, the radio plays, and any statements by George Lucas himself. G-canon overrides the lower levels of canon when there is a contradiction. Within G-canon, many fans follow an unofficial progression of canonicity where the movies are the highest canon, followed by the scripts, the novelizations, and then the radio plays.

T-canon[1] refers to the canon level comprising only the two television shows: Star Wars: The Clone Wars and the Star Wars live-action TV series. Its precedence over C-Level canon was confirmed by Chee.[2]

C-canon is primarily composed of elements from the Expanded Universe including books, comics, and games bearing the label of Star Wars. Games and RPG sourcebooks are a special case; the stories and general background information are themselves fully C-canon, but the other elements such as character/item statistics and gameplay are, with few exceptions, N-canon.

S-canon is secondary canon; the story itself is considered non-continuity, but the non-contradicting elements are still a canon part of the Star Wars universe. This includes things like the online roleplaying game Star Wars: Galaxies and certain elements of a few N-canon stories.

N-canon is non-canon. "What-if" stories (such as stories published under the Star Wars: Infinities label), crossover appearances (such as the Star Wars character appearances in Soulcalibur IV), game statistics, and anything else directly contradicted by higher canon ends up here. N-canon is the only level that is not considered official canon by Lucasfilm. A significant amount of material that was previously C-canon was rendered N-canon by the release of Episodes I-III.
Leland Chee continues to answer questions about the Holocron in the Holocron continuity database questions thread at the forums."

On August 4, 2004, when asked if the G and C-levels formed separate and independent canon, Chee responded by stating that both were part of a single canon: "There is one overall continuity."

So it's not quite as simple as the films are canon and everything else is not. The EU is canon unless it contradicts the TV show or the movies. "Official Continuity" and Canon mean the same thing so that's really double talk. What's approved by Lucasfilm is canon, it's just a matter of what level of precedence that canon takes over the rest. I agree with you though that ultimately whatever Lucas says is canon is canon.

TV-9D9 / Re: The Clone Wars - Season Three Discussion Thread
« on: February 2, 2011, 03:56 PM »
I am enjoying this show. However, like the rest of you I'm having trouble with how it seems to go out of it's way to contradict previous canon. I was saying in another thread that I almost wish this were an alternate timeline or something. At least then we don't know how everything turns out in the end.

The last episode was...interesting. This arch has been advertised as revealing the "Origin of the Force" but I thought we already knew that? I was pretty satisfied with Yoda's explanation in ESB and never really thought about it beyond that.

Something that has been bugging me is how, no matter how dire the situation, no one ever seems particularly concerned. I know these are cocky jedi and all but all of the power to your ship goes out (including life support) and no one is anymore concerned than if they lost the remote control. 

I think if it's approved by Lucasfilm it's canon. To except anything less is a huge cop out IMO. For example Lucasfilm has been very clear that Infinities and Tag and Bink are not canonical. However Knights of the Old Republic and (for some god forsaken reason) Force Unleashed are a part of the canon. There are clear rules that only get bent when the big guy decides to bend them. Issues arise when Lucasfilm gives approval to write something like Boba Fett's origin and Lucas then decides to go back and change it. Which frankly I don't care about because ret-cons are a reality of science fiction. What I do mind is when ret-cons turn something that was good into something that is now confusing or crappy.

What would you guys think if LFL came out and said either 1) Anything that is outside of the live action movies is not canonical or 2) that the stories outside of the movies are divergent timelines?

If Clone wars was a divergent timeline (like in Star Trek or Mobile suit Gundam) then it really could have some surprises and greater longevity. When they are sandwiched between two established films we know none of the main heroes are ever in any real danger. If CW was outside the "canon" then anything could happen. Maybe Anakin never turns to the darkside and leaves the order to raise his kids. Perhaps Palpatine is exposed, ditches the Rule of two and creates a sith army to take over the Republic by force. There really are alot of creative possibilities.

The Sequel Trilogy / Re: Star Wars Sequel Trilogy Speculation
« on: January 31, 2011, 04:55 PM »
If they did another trilogy I would want it to be in the distant past or far enough beyond ROTJ that the original heroes could reprise their roles. No more movies or media that take place in a time period "between" other movies. The Clone wars series is boring because you know how everything turns out. There is no sense of urgency and there are no surprises. It's nice to have plot twists like Yoda's death and Darth Vader's reveal, they make the OT special. 

Really?  You'd want to see Ford, Hammil, and Fisher, all reprise their roles?  ???

Of course I would. You wouldn't? That way you have the expereinced actors to ground the movie and link it to the OT. Additionally you have the chance to bring in younger characters as their children and other NJO folks. If it were done right (which unfortunately it probably wouldn't) it would be amazing.

Do you guys think star wars has become like Masters of the Universe for the fans (aka a glorified fan fic)? I was watching the prequels this weekend (and painfully reminded what a missed opportunity they were) and thinking about how it's hard to look at all the Star Wars media as one cohesive canon. This is mainly because Lucas seems to care more about the creative process than a consistent unified universe. The prequel trilogy is like one alternate universe, the OT is another, the EU is another and now each separate series of CW seem like two more.

I find my self picking and choosing what I accept as canon and what I don't which actually detracts from my experience as a whole. For example, the OT, and alot of the really early EU (Dark Empire, the Thrawn Trilogy and the Jedi Academy Trilogy, Courtship of Princess Leia etc.) all fit together in my mind. The PT and the 1st Clone wars micro series fit together but not with anything else. The CW cartoon series seems seperate from everything. All of the series are enjoyable (in varying degrees) seperately, but together they are too frustratingly different to reconcile for me. I don't really care for Star Trek that much but it seems (to an outsider) that they have done a much better job of making everything fit together as part of a larger cohesive universe.

Am I just thinking too much or do you guys see this too?

I think if they did a new movie it would have to be set during the NJO period. One, because Lucas doesn't have to worry to much about the books and pissing off EU fans. Two because you could theoretically have Ford, Hammil, and Fisher back in Star Wars which would be EPIC.

The Vintage Collection / Re: Big Items of the Future!
« on: February 22, 2010, 11:39 AM »
I don't know if this has been asked before but does anyone know when the new AT-AT comes out?

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