How Much is Too Much?

[Jesse James]

I've seen the opinion that, somehow, the Wave 10 figures are more impressive than figures we've gotten in the past say 4 years...  How so?  I'm not saying it isn't true, or I won't agree, as I don't have most of them in front of me to judge fairly, but why would that be?

Did Hasbro suddenly put paint applciations back to 2007 levels?  Because they've been steadily cut for the past 4 years and I've seen nothing in any pic to make me think they're improving in 2012.

Did Hasbro add even more articulation to the figures?  Sure Maul got hip joints now, but so did Endor Luke a couple years ago, and the Clone...  You can't tell me it wasn't a good investment to make in a figure they'll inevitably get lots of mileage out of in the coming years.

Are accessories now of the quality, and quantity, of the latest GI Joe figures or something?

I'm just trying to see why things are suddenly better is all.  They look the same to me as they have been for a while.  To me, the line got better around 2005, and in general the quality plateued around 2007/2008.  The extra wrist/hip joints have been about the only improvement I can think of, and if anything, the line decreased in things like paint aps, accessory counts fluctuating, and arguably the re-use of parts (it works sometimes like on Panno/Endor Rebel, and fails other times like on Medal Ceremony Han).

Out of Wave 10, I've only seen the BD in person, and bought it, and now immediately regret that choice and plan to take it back because, at the price I paid at Target this weekend, that thing had better be 100% flawless.  Paint should be perfect, articulation perfect, and scale shouldn't be off at all.  He should have the necessary accessories, and no skimping on paint aps like a little "scuffed metal" deco at the joints and whatnot.  What I got, is in just about every way, inferior to the Battledroids from the 2-packs from last year.

And while I was all in on this wave just a week ago, now I'm thinking to myself...  Why?  Why buy Amidala at that price?  She's another saltshaker, and I just don't see the value...  She's already off the list if I see her till I find her on sale down the road.  I'm looking at Daultay Dofine similarly, and to me he looks great (don't get me wrong), but I just figure he's so boring that I'll get him later, or not.

Also, the Podracers...  Never really cared much about them, so why should I now?  And they're arguably the best value since they're technically 2-packs, haha.

Some of the Wave 10 are appealing to me still, but now I'm just being pickier.  Even if it's new, I don't feel compelled to own it.

Granted I'm much more interested in Wave 11...  Maybe it's the source material (definitely part of it), but I'm already cutting Wave 10 down to where I don't want nearly as much of it as I did just a week ago.  And screw the thought of buying Obi/QGJ for just the cardbacks and throwing the figure into the fodder pile.  A year ago?  Yes, I'd have done that (dumb on my part as it may be), but not now.  Forget it.  I'll wait for Super Duper Qui Gon and Obi with hip joints, which will be out at some point in the near future I suppose.

In a way it's nice when they completely F up the Battledroid as they did...  I now don't really want any, whereas before I was thinking "Man, finally a battledroid that should be worthy of grand army building".  And I'm even forgiving on the Battledroid compared to some of you guys.  I liked the Geonosis 2-pack ones a lot.  I'd have been 100% happy with him, tan.  He can't cup the blaster with his left hand, but he can at least rest the blaster on it, and that's realistic enough for me.    The new one seems to be an epic fail on the level of the 2003 Hoth Rebel "Dan Akyroid" Trooper...  and at an obnoxious price to boot!

[Darby]

I think what people are responding to in general (could be wrong) is one, the availability - wow, I can find stuff - and two, the selection.  Which is pretty cool.  The vintage TPM wave is the biggest we've gotten in a long time, and there is lots to like.  It's also mostly improvements on figures 10 years old or more, so for some people it might be especially awesome.

I think where the figures might be progressing is in the sculpts.  You look at Maul, the Naboo Royal Guard, or even Dofine, and you just go, wow.  The portraits and the details are outstanding and I think in some cases, better than even recent examples (this has been a trend upwards for the last year or so).  Articulation and accessories remain stagnant.  Paint apps too.  But the sculpts are killer.

[Jesse James]

Are they really better than anything in 2007 though?  I don't see it...  Sculpts are about as crisp as they've been for a while now.  The improvement in sculpt detail really started around 2003...  I guess I just don't see how it's better now.  It seems, to me anyway, about where it was.

I can't say I'd reward Hasbro because they actually made things that can be found at retail, or because they made a particularly big wave...  that'll be ending shortly I would imagine, as figure carry-overs begin between waves, and if history repeats itself (which it generally always has) there will be a figure back-up at some point as well...  almost every year at some point they back up with pegwarmers.

Again, not saying there isn't an improvement...  I'm interested to see them in person now, but I guess I have a hard time believing the sculpts are that vastly superior to what we've been getting for at least 4 years now.  I reviewed the Naboo Pilots, and they're cool and great, but they were not leaps and bounds above any figure we got last year, or 2010, 2009, 2008, and for the most part also 2007.    Definintely miles better than the 1999 Ric Olie, but then again would anyone buy it at all if it weren't?

[Brian]

Although the TPM wave is pretty well done (for the most part), I think the figures in general have been pretty strong for awhile now.  Sure, distribution (and prices) have often been a nightmare, and sometimes I think that clouds people's view of the line(s).  It goes back before even the TVC line, but I think the majority of the Vintage Collection line has been pretty darn good - and the CW side of things has been as well.  The quality of the figures is great, the trouble is finding (and affording) them I think.

[CHEWIE]

I think in general, most of the Wave 10 TPM figures are awesome... it seems like in most of the previous waves, we had too many repacks snuck in there... this wave has the most all new figures in there, and the sculpting and details are some of the best I've seen. 

I've got several of each figure now loose and open (except the Battle Droid, I passed on that, and I only got one of Rats Tyrell).... but by and large, this latest wave of figures blows me away.  They are worth $9.00 each that I'm paying at Wal-Mart, and I can stomach $10 too... as long as the consistent quality and variety is there in each wave, I can live with that.  Once we start talking $11 or $12 each, then I'm going to really have to reconsider my spending habits.  But if Wal-Mart can hold these down at $8.96 each, and Hasbro continues with this level of quality and variety in their 2012 lineup, I'll be a happy collector.

An example of the amazing quality is the Daulty Dofine figure... about 5 years ago, we got Lushros Dofine, for around $5.75-$6.50 depending on where you shopped (if my memory serves me right)... the upgrade in detail on this latest figure almost makes all past Neimoidians look ridiculous... heck, Gunray and Haako were $6.99 back in 1999... for a couple bucks more, we get one of the best figures I've ever seen Hasbro make.  And at the time that Dofine came out, quality was all over the place.  A lot of the stuff from TAC was great though, but at the same time, Hasbro was still taking some shortcuts here and there - that was a GREAT collection of figures though for the price.  I was only irked in some circumstances, like when they decided to bypass knee articulation.

Now, I don't defend Hasbro on the price when they are repacking old figures time and again with limited articulation, like the Movie Heroes stuff.  But for true upgrades in quality, I'm willing to pay a little more for.  I guess I'd rather see this quality now than a step back in quality, even if that dropped the price by a buck or so.

I guess part of me is also happy that the Movie Heroes are priced so high, and Clone Wars too - because if they *have* to price TVC so high, by comparison, TVC is feeling like a better value.  But if they dropped Movie Heroes down to $5 or so (which seems what those figures should be), then $9 TVC figures really seem like they'd be doomed... I don't know what the right mix is, and I really get pissed at Hasbro when they get stupid on us, but I can not complain about 9 of the 12 figures in Wave 1 and feel like Hasbro has earned every single nickel they got out of me on the 9 figures I decided to throw money at (I feel they should have given both Kenobi and Qui Gon new heads, and the Battle Droid is way too small, so Hasbro didn't get me to purchase those).

[Jesse James]

If case packs, every time, are basically 12 new figures, I guess I can agree, but since I'm a realist, that ain't gonna happen.

Wave 10 will have carry-overs to wave 11 I imagine, and so on... 

There is always a backlog at some point.  It always happens.

I can't wait to see the figures to see if they're really an improvement in detail, but honestly, Lushros Dofine was pretty damn sharp.  There was texturing to his robes that was outstanding, tons of detail...  A lot of people probably prefer him over Daultay's softgoods and such.  So I'm curious to see if he's really great.  From what I've seen though, as far as sculpt goes, I see nothing in 2012 that looks different than anything I saw in 2007 in terms of the detail and likeness.  If anything, 2007 had far better paint aps to highlight the details too.  2012, I assume they're as bad as 2011 and 2010...  and 2009, and 2008 when the cuts in paint aps began.

[Jesse James]

Which that makes me think ahead to Wave 11...  There are 5 figures:

-Leia
-Lando
-Luke
-McCracken
-Fishboy

sooooooo...  7 repacks from Wave 10?  Who seem most likely?  I'm banking on Maul, maybe Anakin, and I could seriously see Obi and Qui-Gon make a return despite being less than stellar choices for collectors.  I could see the Battledroid return as well, and he's already losing steam with collectors I think, and army building ain't what it used to be at this price, even for the guys who still like the figure.

I could easily see things backing up fast.

[CHEWIE]

In regards to Daultay Dofine, he has a sculpt that's amazing...

- removable hat
- removable outer cloak (plastic)
- excellent integration of soft goods
- ball joint shoulders
- ball joint elbows
- articulated wrists
- articulated hips
- ball joint knees
- ball joint ankles

Lushros was great for when it came out, but I think side by side, this new Neimoidian blows Lushros out to sea... a somewhat close comparison might be the TVC Senate Guard compared to the POTJ Senate Guard... but Dofine is even better than the TVC Senate Guard, I think.

I don't know what Wave 11 will entail... if there are case assortments announced, I'm not aware.  But, if they have those 5 new figures (which isn't enough new stuff in my opinion), I agree, the repacks need to be carefully selected... and I hope they are not all TPM figures.  Maul, Sidious, Naboo Guard would all be great choices - then I'd hope they go with some other proven sellers, like the Rebel Fleet Trooper, Bastila, ARC Commander, etc.

[Jesse James]

That's the thing though...  They're likely to want to keep TPM stuff fresh, and they sure like to make sure the mains are in there.  I don't expect them to see to it that, right after 1/30, they're getting the Fleet Trooper and Bastilla Shan into cases along with the Deleted Scene figures, while they're still trying to milk film sales.

I am not really saying Dofine is a bad figure though...  The point I'm making is, is Dofine really better than anything we've gotten in the last 4 years?  To that I say, no (from the pics I've seen, again...  in person maybe I'll change my tune).  His sculpt is no more crisp looking than the Senate Guard, Endor Rebel, AOTC Clone, Fi Ek Sirch (or whatever he is), Bom Vimdin, Ponda Baba, Gammorrean Guard, Scuba Clone Trooper, Imperial Technician, Dak, etc., etc., etc.

Articulation, accessories, softgoods, sculpt...  these things seem fairly standard anymore in the way you described about Daultay Dofine.  I just haven't seen why this is anything more special, other than people can find it (supposedly), and it's a case of basically a bunch of new stuff and an older Obi and QGJ on cards people like.  That's cool, but that isn't going to last I don't think.  It's the start of a new line.  It was like this in 2008 too, and 2008 didn't last.

I'm not saying Daultay should even be compared to Lushros though...  My point was more that what they did really isn't that special compared to anything else they do in the line right now, and have done for some years now, unless again those sculpts are really a notch above...  to me though, sculpts have plateued.  If Lushros Dofine came out now, the way he is and for the new prices, that's so sad it's not even funny and everyone agrees on that for the most part I think.  But that's kinda like, well, the entire array of Movie Heroes retreads they're rolling out for $9 that you can get for like (literally) $1 or $2 right now on a different cardback.

I hope I am wrong though, and that I'm really floored by the TPM Vintage figures when I find them all.  So far the BD is all I've seen up close, and really I'm grossly unimpressed by him.  So far a few others look pretty easy to pass on too now...  I'm just not seeing anything special I guess.   

Someone should just set up shop in a Wal-Mart parking lot on 1/30 and usurp all the sales on all this old stuff, with all the crap they probably overbought years ago.  Why pay $9 when I'll sell you 2 for $5.

[CHEWIE]

I am not really saying Dofine is a bad figure though...  The point I'm making is, is Dofine really better than anything we've gotten in the last 4 years?  To that I say, no (from the pics I've seen, again...  in person maybe I'll change my tune).  His sculpt is no more crisp looking than the Senate Guard, Endor Rebel, AOTC Clone, Fi Ek Sirch (or whatever he is), Bom Vimdin, Ponda Baba, Gammorrean Guard, Scuba Clone Trooper, Imperial Technician, Dak, etc., etc., etc.

Most of those you listed are from the last year, but I do agree, since Legacy, most "new" figures have been pretty dang good.  I think $8 or so is about the right price, and Hasbro is charging a premium because they feel they can due to the packaging nostalgia that a certain percentage of the collecting community feels they "have" to get.  All I'm saying is that if we see continued quality in the line like we are seeing out of the TPM wave, I can stomach $9-$10 a pop.  But if they start regressing back to what we saw with many aspects of the 2010-2011 vintage line (4-LOM, VC #15 Clone, etc.), then I'll be pissed.  I think the first few waves they took for granted the appeal of the packaging design and overproduced Waves 1 and 2, which is what really started the whole distribution issue.

Someone should just set up shop in a Wal-Mart parking lot on 1/30 and usurp all the sales on all this old stuff, with all the crap they probably overbought years ago.  Why pay $9 when I'll sell you 2 for $5.

If you're referring to the Movie Heroes junk, I agree with you to a degree because for an educated consumer of this stuff, that's a ripoff.  But at times I can see the perspective of a parent too, as that line isn't meant for us in our mid 30s, they're meant for kids.  Most kids around the age of 6 aren't going to be as anal about the stuff we care about (articulation, accuracy) and they want to really play hard with their toys. So some of these Movie Heroes make sense, I guess - they have some articulation, and can mostly take a better beating than the highly detailed figures... on that spectrum, it's the price hike that is disgusting to me.  But if Hasbro's retail partners have to charge $9 or $10 per TVC figure for it to be worth their while, I sure as heck don't want to see it competing with a Movie Heroes line that is $5 or $6.  After all, there need to be some parents buying vintage for their kids.

I also try to look at this as beyond Hasbro and toys too.  I've noticed that some non-toy products are starting to rise in price with the new year at Wal-Mart and Target, which is just a sign of the times. 

[Jabba the Slug]

TVC figures went up from $10.99 ('11 TVC) to $11.99 with the new re-launch. Plus, the only figures available at my local Targets are the crappy pegwarmers from last year. This sucks.

There's never any new figures at my store anymore, which severely pisses me off because Hasbro has really been stepping up their game with sculpts. At this point, action figure sculpting is so amazing that each figure looks like a mini-Sideshow Collectables 12" figure.

I'm beginning to officially lose faith.

[Dressel Rebel]

TVC figures went up from $10.99 ('11 TVC) to $11.99 with the new re-launch. Plus, the only figures available at my local Targets are the crappy pegwarmers from last year. This sucks.

There's never any new figures at my store anymore, which severely pisses me off because Hasbro has really been stepping up their game with sculpts. At this point, action figure sculpting is so amazing that each figure looks like a mini-Sideshow Collectables 12" figure.

I'm beginning to officially lose faith.

Dude where do you live?  I don't get that.  Are you in the USA?

Between Target, Walmart, TRU sales galore and BOGO coupons galore, I must have paid an average of $6-7 per figure, and I bought about 35 figures in the last 5 weeks.

[CHEWIE]

Yeah, the TRU sales have been outstanding.  I know I haven't been uphappy with the prices I've been paying for new stuff so far this year.

Jabba, do you have a TRU or two in your area?  If so, check them out before their current sale expires.

[Jesse James]

Same here...  WM's not bumped yet, Target has but hasn't had anything worth buying anyway (WM's been THE place to buy IMO) and TRU isn't close so I don't visit it often but I scored stuff during the sale there.  Their 30% off one now is fair...  Not great, but fair and better than Target more or less.

[Brian]

The highest prices have gotten in our area is now $9.99 at Target/TRU.  Both Target and TRU have had a pretty consistent supply of the TPM vintage wave, WM had it a couple weeks early and hasn't really restocked since then.  I don't necessarily need more of the wave, but I always like to keep an eye on what's out there (and what's selling).  Honestly, all price hikes stink, but I seem to notice it more right now on the CW and Movie Heroes lines.  There isn't really much there that I'm currently interested in, but it would take a pretty nice figure from those lines to pay $8 or $9 each.