Author Topic: Solo (SPOILERS)  (Read 68186 times)

Offline Nicklab

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Re: Solo (SPOILERS)
« Reply #240 on: June 5, 2018, 08:14 PM »
I actually like the loose ends and don't feel like the whole galaxy needs to be somehow tied to a dozen characters and their family trees. 

That's something that's been on my mind, too.  Having things tie up too neatly doesn't seem like it's necessarily in the cards.


...but then did anyone really see the Luke & Leia thing coming in ROTJ?  Or think that it might have been too forced?
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Offline Nicklab

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Re: Solo (SPOILERS)
« Reply #241 on: June 5, 2018, 08:23 PM »
I liked (a lot) the restraint shown in "Solo" where they refrained from having Greedo and Boba cameo (When I saw Enfys Nest's swoop gang raiding the conveyex I had a sinking feeling we were about to set up the EU beef with Dengar, too.) Instead, they brought in the surprise cameo and the only thing I could think was "world building" ala when Sam Jackson would show up in an old-school Marvel movie (and having typed that just now, how awesome would it have been for the surprise cameo to be Sam Jackson as Mace Windu instead?)


Same here.  It wasn't forced.  There was the MENTION of Bossk, but none of the other TESB bounty hunters.  Then there was the nod to Aurra Sing and how Beckett evidently played a role in her demise.  And lastly there was a passing references to the Hutts, and then that bit from Beckett about a job on Tatooine for a bigshot gangster.  It was just enough without being too much.

I had worries that the crashing Imperial patrol trooper might have been Dengar, too.  I'm glad that they didn't try shoehorning things like that into the story.
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Offline Qui-Gon Jim

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Re: Solo (SPOILERS)
« Reply #242 on: June 6, 2018, 07:32 AM »
Honestly, Lucasfilm needs to take a page out of Marvel's book and layout a road map similar to what Marvel did with Phase 1, 2, and 3.

THIS!!!

I liked TLJ, but afterwards I felt it really went out of its way to **** on a lot of stuff from TFA.  Kill most of the resistance.  Kylo ditches helmet.  Snoke offed.  Rey's lineage ignored.  etc.  I'm not saying I hated any of these choices, it just seemed a little... vindictive to me.

They can give creators freedom, but that freedom should be somewhat constrained by an outline.  For better or worse, there is an arc in Eps 1-3 for Palps and Anakin leading to where they are at the start of the OT.   I rewatched all three leading up to Solo, and while TPM and especially AotC are not the greatest, they do have several hooks that make what happens in RotS more rewarding.

Realizing that there is no pre-set destination for the end of Episode 9, there still should have been some basic story laid out.

Offline Diddly

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Re: Solo (SPOILERS)
« Reply #243 on: June 6, 2018, 12:30 PM »
Saw it for a second time last night and felt roughly the same. Alden is great as Han, and made even better that he's not trying to imitate Harrison Ford. Donald Glover is a fantastic Lando, again nailing the character and not trying to play Billy Dee. Still hate that Maul is back in movie form, still think Proxima topples DJ as the worst character in any of the movies.
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Offline Nicklab

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Re: Solo (SPOILERS)
« Reply #244 on: June 6, 2018, 12:50 PM »
Honestly, Lucasfilm needs to take a page out of Marvel's book and layout a road map similar to what Marvel did with Phase 1, 2, and 3.

THIS!!!

...

They can give creators freedom, but that freedom should be somewhat constrained by an outline.  For better or worse, there is an arc in Eps 1-3 for Palps and Anakin leading to where they are at the start of the OT.   I rewatched all three leading up to Solo, and while TPM and especially AotC are not the greatest, they do have several hooks that make what happens in RotS more rewarding.

Realizing that there is no pre-set destination for the end of Episode 9, there still should have been some basic story laid out.

The Kevin Feige style roadmap is something that does seem worth considering.  But the question to ask is whether or not the concept REALLY can apply to Star Wars.  In the Marvel Cinematic Universe model, they are working off of a good number of previously existing storylines that have been adapted for the big screen.  In that regard it differs greatly from Star Wars since the SW projects are being built from the ground up.  And without a master storyteller like George Lucas who is writing EVERYTHING, you are lacking some of George's sense of narrative focus.

Granted, the Star Wars story group does offer some guidance, and a great deal of coordination across several forms of media.  But they are doing that in the context of providing a kind of Star Wars universe bible for the filmmakers and screenwriters to work from.  As long as the Star Wars films are new creations unto themselves, I think that comparing the MCU and Star Wars might be like comparing apples and oranges.

I liked TLJ, but afterwards I felt it really went out of its way to **** on a lot of stuff from TFA.  Kill most of the resistance.  Kylo ditches helmet.  Snoke offed.  Rey's lineage ignored.  etc.  I'm not saying I hated any of these choices, it just seemed a little... vindictive to me.

I respectfully disagree.  I think that Rian Johnson was trying to challenge the audience, first and foremost.  I think that he is incredibly conscious of the previous films and the tropes and patterns that have been hallmarks of the saga.  Rey even communicated some of the audience's expectations of the Force when Luke asked her what she thought about the Force and the Jedi.  Luke dispelled some of those notions for Rey, and Johnson dispelled some of the audience's expecations, too.  Because after the PT, a number of the previously established patterns had become almost formulaic, and led fans to expect a Star Wars film to hit certain beats over the course of the movie.  And isn't a movie supposed to tell us a new story where we are generally surprised?

I think Rian Jonhson is equally aware of the surprise and shock that the audience had when THE EMPIRE STRIKES BACK was released.  Think about it in it's time:  Han is captured and presumed lost.  Luke quit his Jedi training to face Vader and has been gravely wounded.  Leia truly has to step up and lead, saving those who have saved her before.  And Darth Vader has communicated something incredibly shocking - that Obi-Wan Kenobi lied to Luke about the fate of his father.  Vader has told Luke that HE is actually his father and wants him to join him.  Is this true?  Or is Darth Vader lying?  I was certainly left with the question of whether or not Vader was lying until ROTJ was released.  And by all accounts, even James Earl Jones thought that Vader was lying, too.

I really think that Rian Johnson was channeling the spirit of what had happened in TESB.  Because TLJ has a similar letdown that I know I felt at the end of TESB.  Yoda spelled out one of the themes of this movie explicitly, that failure is a great teacher.  And it also led us to re-evaluate our expectations, and that the struggle for our heroes was going to be more real and far from predictable.  The nagging questions wouldn't necessarily be answered when the audience expected them to be answered.

Granted, I tried to have an open mind about TLJ.  The first time watching it, I wasn't sure that I liked it.  But then I watched it again and opened myself up to the experience, and I came away with some of these impressions.  YMMV.
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Offline Qui-Gon Jim

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Re: Solo (SPOILERS)
« Reply #245 on: June 6, 2018, 02:24 PM »
Please don't misunderstand me... I really liked TLJ and I completely appreciate the new directions that RJ introduced.  I actually LOVED the way he sort of had Luke throw out (even in a meta sense) all the pre-conceived stuff about the Force, the Jedi etc.  Luke is evolved, and it seems that Yoda, after being one with the Force has also come to the same conclusions.  I can't wait to see where they go. 

Now space horses are another story...

I just thought the way a few specific things were erased "just because" was a little jarring. Was there a JJ-RJ spat?  I don't recall hearing that.

Offline Rob

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Re: Solo (SPOILERS)
« Reply #246 on: June 6, 2018, 03:27 PM »
Please don't misunderstand me... I really liked TLJ and I completely appreciate the new directions that RJ introduced.  I actually LOVED the way he sort of had Luke throw out (even in a meta sense) all the pre-conceived stuff about the Force, the Jedi etc.  Luke is evolved, and it seems that Yoda, after being one with the Force has also come to the same conclusions.  I can't wait to see where they go. 

Now space horses are another story...

I just thought the way a few specific things were erased "just because" was a little jarring. Was there a JJ-RJ spat?  I don't recall hearing that.

This is more or less how I feel about TLJ.  I thought the Luke / Rey / Yoda / Snoke / Kylo stuff was great.  I thought the fact that it was otherwise a chase movie with a worthless Poe and Finn and Rose on a terrible errand was awful.  It was half amazing, half a total throwaway to me.


Offline Qui-Gon Jim

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Re: Solo (SPOILERS)
« Reply #247 on: June 6, 2018, 06:39 PM »
I liked the arc they had for Poe where he becomes the leader. I also get what they are building with Finn / Rose / Rey.  I just felt that the Canto scenes dragged it all down a bit. That could have been edited a LOT tighter. I also appreciate the big theme that comes out of this sub-plot,  it itís all a bit plodding.

Offline Rob

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Re: Solo (SPOILERS)
« Reply #248 on: June 6, 2018, 10:13 PM »
I liked the arc they had for Poe where he becomes the leader. I also get what they are building with Finn / Rose / Rey.  I just felt that the Canto scenes dragged it all down a bit. That could have been edited a LOT tighter. I also appreciate the big theme that comes out of this sub-plot,  it itís all a bit plodding.

Leader?  Poe was neutered for pretty much the whole film except for where he mutinies and is promptly slapped back down to earth by Leia. As for what theyíre doing with Finn / Rose / Rey, I donít get it at all. Explain it to me?

Finn is a rebel now, thatís cool I guess.  Rose is a horribly uninteresting character IMO, Rey is maybe the good guy, probably, but maybe not?  The evil dude is dead and Iím assuming Kylo will step up and finally be a bad dude... Hux is mostly just in the way and obnoxious... right now I donít have any idea what the conflict is or what this whole thing is building towards... and the entire resistance is like 30 people and a bunch of future kids with brooms..  The end of that movie had no gravitas.

Meanwhile, after all of the excitement of all our childhood heroes coming back, in two movies two of them are dead and the one who isnít died in real life. 

I enjoyed TFA, I enjoyed half of TLJ, but IMO Abrams has his work cut out for him.
« Last Edit: June 6, 2018, 10:14 PM by Rob »

Offline EdSolo

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Re: Solo (SPOILERS)
« Reply #249 on: June 7, 2018, 06:59 AM »
I think the big problem is there really seems to be a disconnect between TFA and TLJ.  I think TLJ would have been quite a different movie if it was directed by Abrams.  The whole "your parents were worthless drunk junk traders" does not vibe with the TFA flashback scene of young Rey being left on Jakku.  If Kylo is actually telling the truth (which Johnson seems to indicate) I don't see how her parents are dead in a paupers grave on Jakku.  The flashback scene really doesn't look like the ship is taking off to go to the local bar, but it appears to be leaving the planet.

The numbered episodes are supposed to be the story of the Skywalker family.  The whole Johnson explanation of "there needs to be other families who have the Force" is a silly explanation.  Were all the PT Jedi related to Skywalker?  I know this would have been the easy and obvious route, but you make Rey Luke's daughter.  Get rid of this awkward, shoe-horned love triangle with Rose and put Finn and Rey together.  She can reclaim the Skywalker name and so can Finn since he has no last name.  That frees things up for any future numbered trilogy.  As it is now, the last Skywalker in name is dead.  Kylo can claim lineage, but even a return to the light puts him back as a Solo.  There is no Skywalker to go forward as things now stand.

The stand alone films don't necessarily need the Marvel roadmap, but the numbered episodes do.  Tie ins like the hyperspace tracking from Rogue One to TLJ are nice nods.  So is putting Maul in Solo and thus connecting it with the Clone Wars and Rebels cartoon series.  If we are going to have a Star Wars movie every year, continuity needs to be a high priority.

Offline Rob

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Re: Solo (SPOILERS)
« Reply #250 on: June 7, 2018, 10:30 AM »
If Kylo is actually telling the truth (which Johnson seems to indicate) I don't see how her parents are dead in a paupers grave on Jakku. 

I don't think he is.  He makes some other claims (I forget what off the top of my head) in that same scene that end up being lies and manipulation from Snoke... the gist I got from that scene was that Kylo doesn't really know what he's talking about and that it was extremely open to him having been wrong about Rey's parents.

Offline Darby

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Re: Solo (SPOILERS)
« Reply #251 on: June 7, 2018, 06:37 PM »
I like the idea of Rey's parents being no one, at least thematically (I'd still have made them Han/Leia myself) but I agree, Kylo is almost certainly lying. He's deliberately manipulating her worst fear, and tearing down her defenses, simply to capitalize on their very tenuous relationship. I don't know what the out would be for Rey, in terms of parentage; Luke is off the table. At least I think that would be too much last minute revisionism (I suppose I bought Luke/Leia being siblings just fine...). Han and Leia make the most sense, but while Kylo may be lying, we would have to again do enormous heavy lifting now to retcon this. Bringing it back to the Solo movie - Qi'ra - maybe, but this will be a Darth Maul level HUH? for the general audience in IX. So not sure.

Offline tmanthegreat

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Re: Solo (SPOILERS)
« Reply #252 on: June 15, 2018, 12:59 AM »
Going a little OT here, but I finally saw Solo...  First Star Wars movie I hadnít seen on opening day since 1997, but sometimes life gets inthe way...  But that said, I rather enjoyed it, actually much more than I thought I would!
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Offline Nicklab

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Re: Solo (SPOILERS)
« Reply #253 on: June 15, 2018, 09:17 AM »
I like the idea of Rey's parents being no one, at least thematically (I'd still have made them Han/Leia myself) but I agree, Kylo is almost certainly lying. He's deliberately manipulating her worst fear, and tearing down her defenses, simply to capitalize on their very tenuous relationship. I don't know what the out would be for Rey, in terms of parentage; Luke is off the table. At least I think that would be too much last minute revisionism (I suppose I bought Luke/Leia being siblings just fine...). Han and Leia make the most sense, but while Kylo may be lying, we would have to again do enormous heavy lifting now to retcon this. Bringing it back to the Solo movie - Qi'ra - maybe, but this will be a Darth Maul level HUH? for the general audience in IX. So not sure.


I also get the concept of Rey's parents not being connected to the whole Skywalker lineage.  The running theme from Lucasfilm has been about making the universe BIGGER, rather than trying to draw things together neatly.  But I keep going back to those scenes between Rey and Han in TFA, and the exchange between Maz and Han in her castle.  It seemed like such a clear case of foreshadowing.  But the one question mark in that theory is when Maz said to Rey "Whoever it is you were waiting for, they're not coming back".
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Offline dave in the basement

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Re: Solo (SPOILERS)
« Reply #254 on: June 15, 2018, 09:29 AM »
I really enjoyed it as well, and hoped to see it again this weekend, but it is really being scaled back in theaters with the Incredibles 2 coming out. There are only 3 showings on Saturday and 2 on Sunday.  :(