2006 Vintage Saga Collection (vTSC)

[Jesse James]

I've sorta pondered if a SA line at the high price point wouldn't just satisfy what it is that I want and if I should just bite the bullet as this is what I'd be most likely to get, if I got what I wanted...

I want SA figures, or even just slightly better than what we've seen through most of 2006 anyway, and for the basic pricepoint...  Army building would be what kills me at the $10-ish price is all.  I'd probably not mind as much if not for the fact I love to have multiples of most everything, especially these better figures like Pilot Obi-Wan for instance. 

Now the Obi that's great, he was cheap, but like VOTC Han I had a hard time justifying buying multiples for customizing until he was on sale...  And the Stormie I bought plenty of, few on clearance, but it stung and I hate to say it but even if I saw 200 of them I couldn't have bought them all simply because it would have been financially impossible to justify.  I'd want to, but $10 per would kill it as a possibility.

Hasbro can do better by us though I believe...  They can offer better articulation, I've seen nothing to indicate to me they can't and excuses offered are hollow to me when compared around the toy aisle, even with the license they have.  The more "in" on other lines I get, the more I learn about their hardships as organizations and what they put out there in terms of quality, I cannot accept Hasbro's "wha wha wha, we can't afford to deliver anything better" lines of bull****, I'm sorry.  Fact is Hasbro could profit off the line even with quality increases to the basic line overall...  Even more if they'd cease the dead-end spin-off crap like Choppers and Transformers...  and even more still if they'd capitalize by re-releasing definitive figures instead of odd choices, but that's my opinion.

This topic is really a tough one to grapple with as a collector though, no doubt...  VOTC's the best Hasbro offers (short of Evolutions) yet you want these things that you know you don't want to feel the financial burden with.  Figures cool, price horrendous, and we are torn...   

[Darth Broem]

Yeah, the $13 pricepoints are ridiculous.  I give them the benefit of the doubt with the $10 VOTC wave ther first time due to the cardback, clamshell, and nostalgic feel of the OT DVDs coming back.  I really wanted those cardbacks for Leia, Han, Chewy, Vader, Stormtrooper, Fett, Lando.  At that time it was kind of the first real attempts at making SA figures as well. 

Now it's another $2-$3 more?  That is really pushing it.  Hence the only reason I will only be picking up 1 of each.  As cool as the Biker Scout is I'm not going to be buying up 5-10 of them.  Hell I won't be doing that at $7 a pop either, sure won't at $12 a pop.  I still like the cardback and really that is my only incentive to spend the extra money.   

I don't really see a reason for them charging more on figures because they are SA.  I have heard that from them before.  I think it's BS.  Expecially when quite a few basic ROTS figures were SA at a much lower  pricepoint. 

[Darth_Anton]

I have to agree with what Jared was saying. There's a lot of stuff comming out of okay to decent quality. It's a lot of work to collectect and it takes up a lot of space. I would much rather pay twice as much for less figures of higher quality.

[Morgbug]

You'll pardon the repetition coming from me I hope, but it is fascinating to watch the discussions from a Canadian point of view.  Prices are up, no doubt about it, and that's not good for anyone that collects.  But consider for a moment typical Canadian retail prices:

Basic figures $8.97-9.99
VOTC $14.99

Add to those 14-15% tax and you've a $17 VOTC figure.  That's pretty freaking awful, but it's what we've been paying up here.  Now three years ago I could accept it because the Canadian dollar was resembling a Peso more than a greenback with a value as low as $0.61 USD.  Currently though the $1 CAD = nearly $0.90 USD. 

Therefore I put to you that the real reason for the increase is a devaluation in the US dollars purchasing power relative to other currencies.  Canada is by no means a world leader financially for a variety of reasons.  Natural resources are currently very valuable and we have lots of those, but the US is in a funk.

Anyhoo, aside from that little tidbit I accept none of your moaning cuz you're just getting a taste of Canada now

And I'd add to the list a Hoth Rebel Soldier too...  I'd replace the Jawa with this actually.  I love Jawas, I want drunk ones for outside my Cantina, but I don't want Super Articluated Jawas really bad.

I don't really want or need them that badly either.  I just want them to round out the first 12 vintage figures is all.  I think they can do them very well and I'd love to see them on the cardback with the case as well.  They'd be nice and not necessarily an army builder, though they have the potential.  Given it's more VOTC than army building I'd still prefer the Jawa. 

See I don't think Hasbro really even considers army building as a reality.  If there are indeed nuts out there with deep enough pockets or strong enough desire, to Hasbro that's just gravy.  They want to get these out there at a high price point and sell them.

Case, articulation and everything else be damned, they have a captive market and they know it.  Compare what else you could buy for that $10:
- A marvel legends figure - superior articulation, bigger and now an accessory to build a figure
- LOTR Trilogy figure - usually superior articulation, larger by far, ok accessories
- McFarlane whatever - a mini-statue for all intents and purposes, realistically it's a better value, if not having lower play value
- 10 Hot Wheels cars

Ok, the last one wasn't really serious, but you can get a lot of toy for your money relative to a VOTC or Target Exclusive.  Hasbro knows it, but they also know we're all stupid.  Sorry if that offends but it's true for almost all of us. 

[Brian]

Honestly there's a part of me that would prefer a line of SA figures at $12 a fig, focused on 12-16 figure per year, where quality and detail were guaranteed, over a $6 a fig line of 80 mish-mashes with a dozen or so sorta-winners. I think I'll be more burned out on the current pace of the standard TSC than to these. There's something appealing about knowing that these 5 figures should ship for some time, and should dry up before another wave presumably hits in fall.

But like we've discussed in the past, the packaging is overkill and doesn't justify the price. They should trim it down to 8.99 or 9.99 tops. I really wonder how these will do at retail in a non movie year or without a video release to back them up.

Greedo makes me wonder about where this line will head -  niche characters had better be something incredibly special to survive being mixed in with core characters and army builders, and he's not up to par, I think. I think there's a very, very limited number of secondary character that will keep pace sales-wise with Hans, Lukes, and Stormtroopers. I mean, maybe Jawas, a Gamorrean Guard?

I want to see them round out the original 12, for sure, then I'd like to see some more ESB figures - Hoth Han, Bespin Luke, and a Snowtrooper being the key ones for me. But those, again, are core characters which I think can move at the higher price. I just worry that the secondaries is risky territory for the line.

This is what I think about sometimes too.  There is a part of me that wouldn't mind a VOTC-like line, more limited, with around 20 figures a year or something.  The higher price stinks, and honestly I could only afford it if the basic line was cut back as well.  Like Jared mentioned, at this point part of me would almost rather see a more limited line of "high quality" figures, maybe for a slightly higher price, than an 80 figure lineup with half of them being rehashes.  I'm a loose collector as well, so they could cut back on the packaging for all I care as well.  I do like the vintage-style cardbacks, but could take or leave the cases.  I could see how carded collectors might like them though.  Part of me wouldn't mind seeing the whole vintage line re-done VOTC style, but then again, I don't want to pay $13 for a Power Droid.  It seems like we can get great "secondary" characters in the basic line, such as the upcoming R5-D4, Hammerhead, and Garindan resculpts.  Its hard to know the happy medium, but I know that as much as I like new figures, if the breakneak pace of the basic line keeps up...I don't know if I can.  I'm definitely on a budget, and likely a lower one this year, so some other things I'd like to collect are getting the axe so I can keep up with the basic "core" line.  Like many have said, Hasbro should just cut the crappy offshoot lines like the choppers and focus more on their core.  Add knee articulation to more of these figures, and I don't think there would be nearly as many complaints.  I don't need Derlin and Veers to be "SA" necessarily, but knee joints on both would do a lot.  Anyways...that being said, I am a fan of the VOTC line...especially when it is somewhat limited in releases at a time.  It makes it a little easier to keep up.  The price is killer though, especially with so many basic figures out as well.  I'd like to get more into army building with OT characters...but how many Scouts can I justify buying if they are $13 per?

[Jayson]

Anyhoo, aside from that little tidbit I accept none of your moaning cuz you're just getting a taste of Canada now

Moan – Canada tastes like crap! 

j/k

[Darth Broem]

Soon the problem will be that they just price everything out and retailers will whine because they don't sell.  I just see Hasbro and retailers shooting themselves in the foot here.  They got a good thing going right now but are going to get too greedy in the end.  That's what I fear. 

[Morgbug]

Anyhoo, aside from that little tidbit I accept none of your moaning cuz you're just getting a taste of Canada now

Moan – Canada tastes like crap! 

j/k

NO, no kidding.  That would be correct

[Reid]

I'll definitly get the Scout.

[CHEWIE]

I have to say that I disagree about wanting to pay $10 or more for figures... they've proven over and over that they can make awesome stuff in the $5 price range.  Just because they make some stinkers in there doesn't mean they can't make great figures too for that price.  Heck, the VOTC figures are nice and all, but hardly warrant their retail price.  Not one of those figures is superior to some of the ROTS stuff we got... remember the SA Clone, Count Dooku, Ki Adi Mundi, etc. figures?  Does someone not think that's good enough quality?  Or the new AT-AT driver?  What's wrong with that?  I think the mix they are doing now is working pretty darn good... they're making some nice new resculpts, mixing in some new characters, and throwing in a few rehashes, but not too many.  And how many Baradas do you see sitting around?  Most of us, including myself thought that would be collecting dust for the entire year... yet from my area and others I've talked to, it's not.  Somehow even Rieken has sold.  Would you want to see a $12 version of Rieken instead of a $5 or $6 version?  Or for Veers to have had articulated knees but for his price to have doubled?  Not me.

If anything, I could stomach more of the Evolution sets priced in the low $20 range for really nice figures, but asking for $10 figures I think is asking for trouble and an early exit for the Star Wars line.

I'll take two SA Clones at $5 each over a $10 version anyday, and I think most people who buy this stuff (including parents - yes, parents) would too. 

Quanitity/diversity is one of the main things Star Wars has always had going for it.  If you increase the prices too much on these by making the mainstream line double what the current mainstream prices are, production and variety of characters goes down.  That's a poor idea I think.

 

[ruiner]

Hasbro once claimed that the "star case" on the VOTC figures was the reason for the price increase.

If that's true, then get rid of it.

It means **** to me.

[CHEWIE]

I agree... the clamshell should raise the price by maybe a dollar.

And I'm not saying to cancel the VOTC line, it's pretty cool.  But as a subline, not the main line.

 

[SilverZ]

I think that we're talking about the price associated with different things. They've certainly proved that they can deliver SA at the $5 price point, and done so on some ROTS figures that probably didn't need them in the first place - like the Royal Guard - that was above and beyond expectations. But when you're paying $10, you expect that level of detail, instead of counting your blessings that you got it in the first place.

I'm not really arguing for $10 dollar figures but for a line of consistant quality expectations. VOTC/VTSC offers that. The price just happens to suck. 

At the $5 point, we see a lot of folks shrugging off figures that had one really good shot at being done right as a resculpt, and have a pretty small chance of being revisited any time real soon. Not that they're bad, but they're not as good as the really could have been. To me, this is where the new Han Carbonite, Veers, and maybe Bib fall. They're a couple shots off from being great, great toys. Han and Veers would have been perfect with knee joints and Bib would be much better served with a soft goods undercloak. The chances of any of these figures being revisited now is iffy (though customizers might do with merging Han Carb with VTSC Endor Han to solve the problem).

Then you throw in the repaints and recards that are filling out the box. Those are there to make a couple extra bucks, but over time, will clog pegs. We'll reach a point where future good figures will see lower distribution because of filler figures along they way. I think that point is coming with the Geonosis wave.

I think I'd be comfortable paying a bit more to just have "premium" figures that get done up to a certain quality standard and aren't affected by a need for 20-30 other figures as filler along the way, which generates those stinkers.

[Jesse James]

An interesting thing...  Knowing what I know about Wal-Mart, and knowing what I remember about VOTC there in 04...  I remember the first cut in price there dropped them to $7 right away...  That was pretty much nationwide, but not all at once, and they went lower than that at numerous stores over time, but the first big drop seemed to happen across the board to $7...

Now, retail isn't a place that often cuts prices to a loss right away, and WM doesn't unless the item was set for that fate like a loss leader, but SW toys are not those...  So, while it's a guess, I'd bet they still were making a tidy profit off $7 a figure for VOTC...  So I agree with CHEWIE that I don't WANT to pay $10 a figure and I do believe Hasbro can deliver high quality at a low price...  They don't always, but I believe they can "in general"...  Obviously I too dont' feel every figure needs the VOTC treatment in quality, like I'm ok with Bib Fortuna as he is mostly, but figures like Veers, Han Carbonite and others this year haven't met my standards or other even quite secondary characters standards from the past in this line.  I think Hasbro can deliver that VOTC (or near it, like the new AT-AT Driver) quality for on the cheapy cheap for most of the line.  I think the VOTC was a REALLY profitable sale for them, but that's me.

I don't think anyone is saying they WANT to pay $10 a figure though, I think there's just a look of realism on the situation in that Hasbro seems to NOT want to give us these high quality figures for $5 across the board (or the line in this case).  So if you can get it for $10, you bite the proverbial bullet...  Which I tend to agree with Jared, but it kills my army building habit...  And customizing to an extent...  But Hasbro's definitely saying "you can't have that for this".  Hell there's a huge gap between most of the VOTC quality compared to the basic line as of today...  The AT-AT Driver is, so far this year, the only actually "close" figure to super articulation out of the first two waves.  To me he's the only thing rivaling VOTC in quality...  2006 hasn't been real impressive thus far...  And testament to the point of this discussion, I hate the $10-ish pricepoint but ya know the most "excited" I got for a figure this year so far is the VOTC line...  And Cody who I'm hoping is more articulated than I fear.

$10 pricepoints are definitely risky things though and can cause consumer burnout so it's a risky thing, and I too can see Hasbro and retail shooting themselves in the foot on this potentially... 

[CHEWIE]

Who knows what will happen.  I agree that some of the new SAGA2 sculpts aren't exactly what we want... but I do think that there is also the argument that Veers is still a great figure (even without knee joints) and the Bousch Leia, don't see what more someone would want with that.  I'm glad she's NOT a VOTC figure, because of the potential they would ruin it with some sort of oversized cloth goods.  She seems to be the most overlooked figure so far this year.

Looking back a the VOTC before, Ben Kenobi didn't have articulated knees, and 3PO sucked... so for what was supposed to be the "best" line ever, almost 20% of them fell short.  And really the Luke didn't need soft goods so, that probably makes three figures I felt weren't done right.  And I don't think people are dancing on their rooftops over the new Greedo coming out, he could have been just a regular carded figure for that matter... as could all of these VOTC figures.  I'm beginning to lean in the direction of killing the VOTC line.  They're too overpriced.

And looking ahead to the Geonosis wave, we'll see if they pegwarm or not. We were wrong on the Carkoon wave, so I bet there's a chance these will sell better thank some people expect.  You have the carded completists, and some kids will see a Jango out in stores again for the first time in more than 2 years, yada yada. 

So I think things are going good with the regular line since OTC started actually.  Lots of figures, good variety, resculpts in the OTC/SAGA2 line, and we all know they finally did something right with the ROTS line. 

Once again, I'll be in the optimistic corner of the discussion.   But again, I'm beginning to dislike the VOTC idea continuing... I want the figures, but not to be double priced.  They're not twice as good as what else we're getting.