UGP Custom Figures and Vehicles thread.

[Ryan]

I'm sorry you feel that way Fritz, I'm really not trying to be an ass or anything, I just want this project to be great. My main point against Imperial customs is that we really need a lot more civilians and working on Imperials means not working on civvies... And I'm not the only one of that mindset. Fact is we need civilians more than we need anything else. We wanted to create a world, that means terrain, buildings, markets, and lots of civilians, not just a big battle between Rebels and Imperials. Not that we didn't want that to a degree course.

It seems that this project is turning more into to a Diorama project rather than a custom project.

But it is a diorama project... If we wanted it to be all about the customs there would be no need to go into any detail on this diorama at all. We could just paint some cardboard boxes call them buildings, and then use a flat grass mat and a few random lichen bushes as the terrain and call it good. And then just load up with every custom we can possibly think of. And have a big battle with a few random people standing around in a town. There is no logical set up like that, and I think it doesn't even have the same cool factor. Hence the more complex thought out diorama. Which of course includes LOTS of customs. But there needs to be some sort of logical proportion to them. If not why would any of these civilians live in a place that is so heavily contested in a battle, I guess I should say live there cause there are people all over that live in war torn areas. But why would we even have any? They would at least flee the scene temporarily if there were lots of fighting in the area. We wanted a world not just a battle scene, I'm trying to stay true to that and the story, that's where I'm pulling a lot of this from.

I really think that people will still say 'Wow' while looking both at the diorama itself and all the customs that are in it, but at the same time we can have some form of structure and stay true to the story and both real-world and Star Wars universe logic. Even in the SW universe there are aspects of what I was hinting at. Look at Stormtrooper to Civilian ratios for example. Tatooine has very few troopers and a BUNCH of civvies, probably even a few Rebels, but you don't see them going around in uniform. And by that time the Alliance has size that is fairly significant, at least compared to the time period we are doing. On the subject of your trooper I think he looks fine without his gear. And I think he'd look fine with it if it was painted a black or grey (at least the cannon) and the missile was removed. That and the helmet was switched or maybe even just painted brown. I like the Hem Dazon shirt, a lot. He looks like he could throw off the gear and just blend into a crowd, which is what we want. People think the civvies can be just as cool as Imperials, I'm not trying to dilute those at all. But rather than just throw together every cool custom every individual customizer can make all on their own, I think we can have somewhat of a logical system to it but still keep that wow factor. Thus making it appealing to both your everyday average SW fan, and those who really get into it and like to look for the logical aspect, and how it could apply in the real world. I know we are talk SW here and that often doesn't really apply,, but it doesn't mean it isn't desireable.

Really Fritz, I think you are a good guy and a great customizer, I really like the Imperials you have shown. I'm not trying to single you out at all I just think that we already have an Imperial Army, so we need to focus on the customs that will really make or break the city, it's citizens. It's be one thing if I was the only one who felt this way, but I think there are enough others that it is a valid concern, based on what I have seen in this thread, and from a few AIM chats. Sorry to drag this on I don't mean babble, I just wanted to try and show you where I'm coming from.

EDIT: To clarify a bit more, I'm not trying to say don't make any Imperials at all until the UGP is over, I'm just saying as far as what need for the UGP, Imperials are not it.

You didn't think you were gonna do this witout me did you.

Of course not. We have missed you Ennis. Shoot me, Phruby, CHEWIE, and Glass a PM and we can pow-wow and get you caught up on what we have done while you were gone. 

[Famine]

I think what Ryan was trying to say here, (and correct me if I am wrong at your own peril) is that we really need to start looking at the civilian to Imperial ratio, and while Imperial Customs are good and all, some civilians are what we'd really need and like at this point. I don't think Ryan is trying to stifle anyones creativity on this project. If an Imperial is all you can make, and if we have a place for it, we'll do our best to find a use for it. If you can get really creative and make some average or above average Tom, Dick, and Janes, he's love to use those for our project, because that's what we really need. Obscure droids are also welcome.

I consider this project 40% diorama, 60% customs. We need customs to fill up the diorama keeping with the plot we chose.

I hope this clears some things up, and we all get along.

Hey Ennis, good to have you back buddy!

Kevin

[Fritzkrieg]

 >:(I'm being a bit of a stuburn artist here. I get that we need more Civilians than Imps or Rebels, if you look at what I've made for this project to date wich is a lot, you'll see that I've made very few Imperials in fact these 3 are the only ones I've made. But I did make an entire squad of Rebels and at least 6 Civilians. My problem is that the figures that have been approved by 1 or 2 people for this project need to be altered to fit someone elses view of what Rebels in this situation would look like. I'm reluctant to make my customs look like crap to fit that point of view. I'd rather make new ones than alter the ones I've made already. The Mon Cal and Heavy trooper in paticular both look horrible without the gear and I really like the White Helmets and insignias. Yes I know the Heavy Trooper looks fine in the pics, but what you can't see is that he has a huge gap  between his pelvis and torso wich the gear hides. I agreed to paint the gun or he could just carry a rifle instead. If these two won't work, I'll make 2 more to your liking but not mine. I guess I'd rather you guys just tell me you can't use a custom rather than alter it to a point where I do not like it.

[Famine]

Fritz, I agree, I don't think you should have to change your customs. You worked hard on those and no one has the right to take that from you.

I also think that if you are making them FOR UGP, that there are certain needs that some people have asked to be met, and that maybe some sort of result could be reached using both your talent and the groups ideas. I hope you don't take offense to what people are suggesting and know we are trying to make this project the best we can using the wonderful talent of our customizing community and volunteers!

Kevin

[Fritzkrieg]

The problem is that no one had any guide lines. I have never seen any post suggesting no Rebel insignias or Fleet Trooper helmets until just recently. Besides I don't agree with the guide lines being set now. I feel I have a fairly firm grip on Star Wars cannon and I see no reason why in the star Wars Universe that the Rebels should look like Endor Troopers in this Dio. Infact if this Dio take place in the early stages of the Rebellion it would be more accurate to see Fleet trooper style helmets, They wore them on Yavin and that was a secret jungle base. Infact we don't see the Endor style helmet until the end of the Rebellion.

[Famine]

I see your point. Is there a happy medium you feel you can reach, or discuss with us?

Kevin

[Ryan]

I guess it has never been wirtten in stone here in the forums. My thoughts have all been based off the backstory and what we have discussed in chats, both a long time ago, and more recently. These chats never got recorded like they were supposed to, so I suppose if you weren't there they don't work. I guess some of it comes from what I feel is obvious based off the back story and real world examples. And for the Rebels I was offering suggestions after the fact like I do with any custom be it for the UGP or not, no one is forcing you to adhere to those on your own customs, and even for the UGP figures it ultimately falls to CHEWIE or Ennis to decide on the figures. I just was voicing my opinion. I'm sure we can get into a nice long debate as to when and why each uniform type was used, but we don't have that kind of time. So a nice medium is something we need to find quick. 

As far as the Imperials go though... Those guidelines WERE set in stone. Chewie had just said the army was accounted for and there was no reason to make Imperial customs specifically targeted for the UGP as we don't need any. The idea is we desperately need citizens more than anything so we need to all focus on them. Do you see where I'm coming from here?

[Fritzkrieg]

I have designed all of my UGP customs with the backstory in mind. I gave very reasonabl explantions for how they aquired a speeder and explained there organization. As of right now given your new guidlines we do not have all the Rebels needed for the UGP. Only 3 of mine have been deemed usable, which is fine, but we need to figure out what other figures we can use to fill in the gaps.

Here are some other Rebels figs we should consider.


It seems I was not the only one who liked the Rebel Insignias

[elmeaux]

I like her a lot - and the guy too, though he seems a bit POTF2-ish.  But that's probably ok.

Are we not supposed to use POTF2 figures for this?

E>

[Daigo-Bah]

If I may weigh in with an opinion here...  there should definitely be some loose guidelines to follow, such as a range of # of rebels (like between 6 and 12) instead of saying there must be 8.  Same with # of Jedi.  But I think rebel insignias and hat choices being yay or nay might be too picky.  I mean, an argument can be made for either side about why this insignia or that hat is used or not used at this time in canon.  I think the visitors to the UGP will be stunned at the custom quality displayed, but if anyone actually questions the reps there about why the rebels are wearing this hat or have that insignia... well, I won't namecall, but I'd be shocked!  That said, we can't just make anything we want, it has to fall within a reasonable framework.  With citizens, pretty much anything is a go as long as it doesn't look too recognizable as another character or rather looks like a GI Joe figure.

[Daigo-Bah]

There's no real rule Elmeaux, it's just that obviously sculpting prowess has evolved since the POTF2 days, so customs using new bodies tend to look much better as I'm sure you know.  Chewie's opinion was spot on (those were my figures) and I absolutely agree- but I'm hoping as random citizens they won't take prominence and can blend into the crowd so to speak 

[Phrubruh]

Lets just bare in mind that this is CITY NOT A BATTLEFIELD. Therefore, we need a ton of citizens, droids and aliens roaming the streets. We need small accessories such as little market baskets with fruit, tables, chairs and other things to help decorate the streets and make them looked lived in.

We do not need alot of imperial army guys. Infact, we don't need really any jedi at all. Maybe there will be one rooming the streets but this is suppost to be after ep3 and closer to ep4. Therefore, we wouldn't see a gang of jedi having a shoot out with imperials.

The thing is, we have only about a  month and half to get these buildings built and have lots of miscellanous citizens running around the board. Agruing over whether an rebel should have a certain insigna is stupid. We don't have time for this kind of discussion.

Everyone needs to start working on citizens, droids, aliens, ships and vehicles. These are in desparate need! Please start sending everything that you have to me. So far I have only recieved one small box.

[Phrubruh]

This is all well and good but WE MUST START CREATING CITIZENS, ALIENS AND DROIDS FOR THE DIORAMA. So far this city looks like a battlefield and not a real working city. This is not a worn torn city like something in a battle zone. I know imperials and jedi and fun, but your going to have to make me pick and choose what figures are going to in the display. I really don't want to leave anything out but I will if 90% of the population is imperials with heavy machine guns.


Please start sending me what you have.

[Darth_Ennis]

Ok, so citizens it is. 

Lot's of POTC fodder out there, I've got more than a few ideas myself.

I beleive someone brought up a good idea, I would like to expand on. Why dont we give each character a little history and maybe a backstory that will determine what place in the doi he belongs.

Also ti would really like to see the driod junkyard that Chewie brought up, I would love to see a great many droids walking the streets as well.

A military presence is needed, and I love the idea to have a jedi or 2 roaming around, haveing Vader hunting them a la "Purge". I would love to have all of Fritz's rebels in Wookie included, a smalll shootout between tehm and the Imps would be great, but your right the city is not a battlefeild. But what's Star Wars without the War?

[Jesse James]

If I may weigh in, and I admittedly didn't read everything by a large margin, haha.  I just wanted to mention my opinions/thoughts on the uniform details and whatnot, since I like to think I have some good thoughts on the Alliance uniforms and whatnot...

I think Fritz's choices are good for a small Rebel Cell on a specific planet that's largely insignificant (IE: It's not being fought over greatly by either side).  Which is kind of how I view the planet you guys are lining up...  It's small, it's maybe got a Jedi running loose on it and that's why Vader would be there...  But at the end of the day it's not a contested piece of land by much of anyone other than a group of locals who've banded together to fight them with maybe a liason Officer leading them sent by the greater Rebellion...

Anyway what's this all mean about the uniform choices?  Well, to me they'd be patchwork...  A mixture of styles and gear.

My personal take on the Alliance is that the Fleet Troopers ARE the uniform of the basic military soldier in the Alliance.  Endor styled uniforms are the gear of Spec. Forces, and as such is a generally more tailored and expensive equipment given to teh fighting force more heavily used by the Alliance whereas the "Fleet" uniforms are reserved for their larger (but less efficient) fighting body used for larger scale engagements.  The "Fleet Trooper" in the field may wear the standard packs we see on Hoth and Endor, or they may wear trench coats and poncho's for various camoflauge schemes on various worlds (a cheap, efficient means of camo, and seemingly evidenced by Solo & co. on Endor).  The "Endor Style" gear is the better stuff given to the better soldiers though, or that's my take at least on things, others may not agree with that but there's nothing "canon" to say either way on the matter.

I like Fritz's guys for that reason though, that they are a patchwork unit on a planet that isn't hotly contested...  Now, if that planet WERE hotly contested, and a large (hundreds, thousands, whatever) of troopers were sent by the Alliance to duke it out over it...  In my little SW world they'd need to look much more uniform, much more structured.  But you guys are going for the smaller group, so I think the patchwork looks decent.

That said, I also, obviously, don't adhere to the "Alliance uniforms evolved over time" theory as well.  I think the troopers on Endor are not part of the "Fleet", and so their uniforms are different and so is their gear...  The Fleet Trooper uniform is still the fighting body's uniform, the Endor uniform style is part of the Spec. Forces, and so on...

Just some thoughts though guys...  Maybe they'll help.  I know I'm not involved but wanted to throw in my $.02 here and there.

On the whole I like Paul's quote best though...  The diorama isn't intended to be a battlefield so remember to stay focused.

Good luck again guys.