San Diego Comic-Con 2015

[Jesse James]

So holy ****, the meltdowns over toys I'm reading are really rather fun to look through...  It's weird because I'm on neither side completely in the debates I'm reading.  It's just mass hysteria, AND HASBRO HASN'T EVEN DONE THEIR PRESENTATION! 

I mean, I have little hope of a quality 3.75" line, I'll be honest...  To me, the only shred of hope I can muster is things go to a lesser articulation rate than we've seen and it goes back to 05-07 levels of articulation.  But that's really wishful thinking on my part even.

That said, man I'm seeing absolute insanity from people...  Guys comparing HT and what they're doing to Hasbro, people saying Hasbro's intentionally killing the line, people complaining about female figures not being prominent enough still, Hasbro's quality sucks, Hasbro's distribution sucks, Hasbro's pricing sucks, people angry at people who are praising the smaller companies for what they make...

It's really got people turning on one another, and lots of anger and rage.

Personally I think Hasbro is too much money at this point, especially with now further price hikes and this assumed drop in quality across the board (and TBS basically going all 6").  A friend and I were texting and he said really 6" isn't even up to snuff quality-wise...  I couldn't blame him as some of the materials feel so-so but I feel the price matches it.  The 4" stuff, yeah, the price isn't justified as much to me, and it's really feeling "cheap" anymore.

It's just been weird seeing this much anger.  It actually goes above/beyond what I was expecting to see. 

But you can't compare the smaller companies to Hasbro either...  But I totally get why you'd jump ship to those companies too.  I mean, I'm figuring if this whole thing is imploded tomorrow, it's more money for these other lines I've discovered while Hasbro had this down period since 2012...  And I'm ok with that.  It's more $ to 4" Star Wars customizing (I'll nab fodder on sale and when the movie's hype dies and people start selling figures cheap at toy shows).

For me the only X factor is how will lines be handled with a new movie every year and a cartoon running steadily in between?  Will figures hit sales often?  Will figures even have long windows at retail?  But besides that, I mean if they're 5POA with this loftier pricetag...  I just won't buy them.  I'm kinda ok with that.  Sad sure, but still I'm ok.  Most folks should be too.  You should have bigger problems I guess? 

[Darby]

I've been reading the same things Jesse and I have the same reaction as you.

The anger is embarrassing, frankly. It speaks to a complete lack of perspective and objectivity not just on the hobby, but maybe said person's life. I mean - they're toys. Toys. Hasbro owes us nothing. Hasbro has given us 20 years now of everything we've ever wanted and more, and ok, the last couple years it's gone sideways depending on your perspective, but there are numerous factors feeding into the last few years that these same folks simply can't or won't acknowledge. The internet in general has turned into simply a giant pool for people to cannonball into without any considerations; I don't know if that is simply what's happening with out little corner of it when it comes to the hobby. I know I've spoken to this a few times before, so I won't belabor the point, but it takes  the fun out of for me. I have been collecting since before I can remember. 1978. I love SW. I love hanging out here on JD and talking toys and getting excited at my advanced age over toys. What I don't like is when people (not here obviously) start screaming about what it is they don't have or aren't getting or are skipping meals in favor of buying toys they ultimately hate. When you see that, you just become the dude whose drunk friend starts taking their clothes off in the middle of the bar.

You're like, 'I'm not with that guy.'

[Scockery]

High priced figures and not finding anything new at retail took the fun out for me.

So the fun's been out for years! 

[Jesse James]

Hah that's kind of what I was thinking... Like, NOW you're this mad?  I mean I have had fun the last few years despite it not being the best years.  But then again, for me, the height was 07 so maybe I'm desensitized.

I'm just kinda shocked at the melting down.  Then some people aren't complaining they can't find anything or that they think the figures and prices suck, they're more mad at other people for being happy that companies like Sideshow or Hot Toys are doing their thing, or there's all these side companies stepping in to fill the collector void (granted, at a premium). 

It's a weird show man.  The weirdest.

I find myself agreeing and disagreeing with the same statements being made.

I'll always bitch about price though. 

[Rob]

YOU GUYS ARE WHY HASBLO IS GETTING AWAY WITH IT!  WE NEED TO BE ASKING THEM THE TOUGH QUESTIONS!  HOLDING THEIR FEET TO THE FIRE! 

[Jayson]

Some of the offline conversations have been just as fervent. What I'm looking forward to least about the Hasbro panel reveals will be the "told you so" commentaries afterward. The whole entitled sect of collectors have become more vocal and intolerable over the last couple years. People still don't get that the market and model for toys has evolved. Adam Pawlus recently wrote a damn fine "state of the hobby" in his latest QnA. I encourage folks to read the final 6 paragraphs.

Ultimately for me, it makes no difference. More limited edition "collector" figures? Great, bring 'em on! More 5 POA "crap"? I'm fine with that prospect too. Hasbro cured me of my completist attitude a long time ago to the point I've sold off some pieces that just didn't matter to me - comic packs, Evolutions sets, EU items, some 6" figures, etc. I've branched out to other things as the Hasbro "collector focused" era has wound down and that has allowed me to appreciate more foreign market products -- even LEGO.

[Jeff]

But besides that, I mean if they're 5POA with this loftier pricetag...  I just won't buy them.  I'm kinda ok with that.  Sad sure, but still I'm ok.

Is it just collector rationalization to frame it this way:
- 1995 = 5/6 POA, $5
- 2015 = 5 POA, $8

That's just a 2.4% price hike a year if you ignore everything that happened in-between.

You're like, 'I'm not with that guy.'

Over the years, I've said basically that very thing a few times to Derryl Depreist after fellow "collector sites" have read him the riot act about one thing or another.

YOU GUYS ARE WHY HASBLO IS GETTING AWAY WITH IT!  WE NEED TO BE ASKING THEM THE TOUGH QUESTIONS!  HOLDING THEIR FEET TO THE FIRE!

RIGHT ON!!!  ASK THEM WHY THEY CANT GET THEIR PRODUCT IN THE STORES SO I CAN BITCH ABOUT THE TERRIBLE CHARACTER SELECTION AND THE PRICE AS I BUY THEM ANYWAY!!

What I'm looking forward to least about the Hasbro panel reveals will be the "told you so" commentaries afterward.

Oh man, you're right about that.  Ir's going to be insufferable on many levels. I blocked off my work calendar for tomorrow afternoon to revel in the Twitter/Facebook aftermath.

[Jesse James]

I'd only say that the 95 POTF2, for the goofy he-man sculpts and stuff, IMO had a better quality about them (materials, deco, etc).  But besides that yeah, the math ultimately kind of adds up on them.  I just don't care for the things like the skirt bits now molded to the legs, the paint aps being atrocious (line wide though, not just Legends).  But in general I also just don't buy stuff, rather than bitch about it.  I would LIKE to buy some TFA figures, but I mean if they're all 5 POA and the quality's about where we are, and the prices rise...  Meh.  I can not buy and be just as happy.  If that makes sense?

Actually if the skirt pieces were still separate sculpts I actually could probably live with the 5POA, from a customizing POV anyway.

"I'm not with that guy"

Been to fewer shows than Jeff, but was still immediately embarrassed by some stuff.

And I'll 3rd Jayson's point...  The self-aggrandizing BS is at an all-time high in the hobby in general.

I actually look forward to customizing more, if anything.  I haven't done much of it in years really except goofy little projects to just "see if I could do that" kind of stuff.  Plus I just have other stuff to buy that I like now.  Hell, maybe there will be so little I want that I'll buy that big ass Falcon cockpit and Han/Chewie for in it!?    Well, I won't get that crazy (yet).

[GrandMoffNick]

As is the case with most of my posts this will probably be a bunch of random sentences not necessarily related to one another.

I think Hasbro has dropped the ball in the last X number of years. BUT only a percentage of that is on them, the other just is what it is. A large part of "Hasblo" is the collector's mindset.

Do prices feel high? Yes. Do the paint apps seem bad for no good reason? Yes. Is it hard to watch the figures become lest collector friendly? Yes.

But they are toys. Some retail Hasbro stuff is obviously more adult oriented than others, but still they are toys that you can buy for relatively cheap. They aren't online only, "Museum Quality" (isn't that what Sideshow says?), figurines meant to display for the world to see and marvel at their quality.

My one time weekly toy run friend and now time to time toy run friend and I discuss how hard it is to listen to people upset about everything with SW toys all the time. Is there any other pop culture movie/show/whatever that even comes close to getting the toys we have gotten for 20 years (not including vintage)? So I mean, the character crop we've gotten? 38 years later you can go to Target (and I realize last wave syndrome may ruin my point here) and get some random dude who is just a background at a retail chain? How cool is that? I don't just get to choose from my 765th Vader or pay some company who's under producing toys online specifically for collectors and chose to charge a lot to make a random character. I think we've had it good for too long and not that things seem to be plateauing or even declining people have this weird reaction that "we are owed" something.

Thankfully the only thing that matters to me with collecting is MY ENJOYMENT and all the people who do it but apparently hate it aren't therefore able to break through my bubble and ruin it for me, but I can see how they might for some.

Hasbro you are not close to perfect, but you sure don't suck as bad as it feels (and we all know the internet is only for bitching and porn) most everyone is saying.

Ok time to get ready for work.

[McMetal]

For my two cents, the over the top anger does not bother me. Anger is an emotion I'm generally pretty comfortable with, and it doesn't bother me to see other people lose their minds. It helps me keep my own insanity in a healthy perspective. 

I think the maddest I ever got about anything toy related was when they cancelled the Clone Wars line which was really the only reason I got back into SW collecting in the first place after so many years. That seems pretty justifiable compared to some of the more recent outrage. Never mind price hikes or paint apps, they just stopped making all of the toys I loved. I guess in that way I can sort of sympathize with the lot that feel like the prospect of losing SA figures is the death knell for their hobby.

Anger is just the flip side of passion after all, and the depth of the anger is commensurate with the level of passion that kept this line of toys going for the past 30+ years or whatever. But no question there is a very significant portion of idiocy and entitlement mixed in there too.

FWIW, I think today is going to be one of the most significant days in the history of the line. Things are at a real crossroads here. I don't feel like I have a real dog in the fight either way, if we get a couple more 5 POA Rebls figures I'm fine with that. But I know a lot of people seem ready to jump ship so it will be very interesting to see how this plays out.

And yeah Twitter should be fun this afternoon. 

[Nicklab]

I think a lot of the anxiety among the collecting community and Star Wars fans in general is that we're in somewhat uncharted territory.  And that's attributable to a few factors.

-It's the Post-George era.  We knew what to expect before from both Lucasfilm as well as Hasbro ever since Episode I rolled out in 1999.  With the sale of Lucasfilm to Disney that has changed.  There seems to have been a change in the corporate culture and how they do things.  They're certainly being far more secretive about the production process than Lucasfilm was during the PT era.  J.J. Abrams has been very tight lipped about the process on the filmmaking front, and I think that air of secrecy has made it's way through the broader Star Wars brand.  The leaks of the past (at least in the toy line) have really dried up, too.

-We've been accustomed to a certain schedule for news in the leadup to movie releases.  The Christmas release of THE FORCE AWAKENS has thrown that schedule out the window.  That's have everyone guessing about when we're going to see ANYTHING.  And it's not like we've seen any sort of statement from Hasbro about when they're going to make an announcement or presentation.  All we know is that there's a merchandise release date of September 4th, there's the 6" First Order Stormtrooper and there were those 6" figure prototype images that leaked.  We're still dealing with a lot of unknowns.

-Then there's the uncertainty about the future of the 3.75" figure line.  That's led to a lot of speculation and worry about the future of an action figure format that's been with us since 1978.  And when you have a history like that it's easy for a group like collectors to get anxious.


As for any sense of anger in the collecting community?  I get that some people get really wrapped up in things.  I've got my own stuff going on in my personal life that takes priority over collecting.  Getting angry about the unknowns of the Hasbro Star Wars line is something I can't afford to do in terms of time or energy.  Do I get a little anxious about it?  A little bit, yes.  And I probably would get a good deal more anxious if I was regularly travelling the convention circuit doing reporting on the Hasbro Star Wars line like I used to do.  That's my own perspective though, and I understand that YMMV.

I imagine that after 1:30 PT today a lot of people may change their tune.  We'll just have to wait and see how it goes!

[Phrubruh]

I think what gets me is the amount of retail space that is dedicated to Star Wars figures that is never filled for the last few years. No other toy line has empty pegs all the time. Even when they just finish a restock, the pegs are never filled because they get one case or two that is instantly picked up and sold on ebay at twice the price. Look at the prices on ebay. They are easily 200-400% more than retail. I don't know if they actually sell at those prices but if they did I could make a killing.

I know this all changes in September when we will see a glut of figures even God has never seen at very high prices. But at this point, I really don't care.

[Jeff]

Interrurpting the discussion to remind folks that our SDCC Image Galleries are being updated throughout the weekend.  I know the Hasbro stuff is boring right now, but hopefully we'll get some good shots of new stuff this afternoon!

Now, back to the discussion...

Hasbro you are not close to perfect, but you sure don't suck as bad as it feels

Well said, Nick.

Anger is just the flip side of passion after all, and the depth of the anger is commensurate with the level of passion that kept this line of toys going for the past 30+ years or whatever. But no question there is a very significant portion of idiocy and entitlement mixed in there too.

Agree.  I can't fault the people for being angry... but I do dislike the trend some websites have of catering to those angry folks, whipping them into frenzies to the point that their very vocal minority is treated like a majority opinion... or at least presented to Hasbro as such.

[Nicklab]

Agree.  I can't fault the people for being angry... but I do dislike the trend some websites have of catering to those angry folks, whipping them into frenzies to the point that their very vocal minority is treated like a majority opinion... or at least presented to Hasbro as such.

That bothers me a great deal, too.  It's one thing to provide news and imagery for interested readers.  But the pot stirring and muckraking has been bad.  And I think that the ethical tradeoff that some sites have made has not been a positive for the collecting community.  Getting people into a fever pitch of complaining and anger draws traffic which benefits a website.  But it gets some people crazy and drives away others that just want to know what's going on with the Star Wars brand.

[JediJman]

Anger is just the flip side of passion after all, and the depth of the anger is commensurate with the level of passion that kept this line of toys going for the past 30+ years or whatever. But no question there is a very significant portion of idiocy and entitlement mixed in there too.

Agree.  I can't fault the people for being angry... but I do dislike the trend some websites have of catering to those angry folks, whipping them into frenzies to the point that their very vocal minority is treated like a majority opinion... or at least presented to Hasbro as such.

I don't know.  I read most of this and just have laugh.  I have been collecting Star Wars for 37 years.  I have a 16' x 24' room dedicated exclusively to Star Wars merchandise.  I'd call myself a pretty big fan and collector.  Yes, I've had frustrations with availability, pricing, character selections, etc. over the years, I can't really recall a time that I was ANGRY about any of it.  Disappointed? Sure.  But I don't get the sheer anger and rage that seems to be rising up about this stuff. 

- Mad about the distribution?  Relax, it will get here eventually.  Is there anything in Hasbro's history that hasn't come around eventually?  Even rare packaging differences can be found for 'okay' prices on the secondary market.  Third party transformer collectors pre-pay for stuff that doesn't show up for a year. 

- Mad about the pricing?  If figures shoot up 50% in cost (which they have not), how much does that really impact you?  So you would have spent $1,000 on toys (say that aloud to a non-collector without flinching) and now you spend $1500 or buy a little less.  Not a life changer.  Don't get me wrong - I'm a huge deal shopper, but if you can afford these things in the first place, you can probably afford to spend a little more or buy a little less. 

- Mad about the product?  This is totally off the wall, but how about not buying it?  If I go to the store to buy strawberries and they don't look fresh I just don't buy them.  If I go to buy shoes and they don't fit, I don't buy them.  If Hasbro makes crap I don't really like, I don't buy it.  You don't need to have everything just because they made it.

I love that people are passionate about Star Wars and their collections, but I just can't wrap my head around the Anger.  If you're getting angry about your hobby and how you spend your already limited free time, maybe it's time to back off a bit and find something that makes you happier.  Life's too short to be angry about your toys.