Star Wars: Empire At War

[Matt_Fury]

Beyond that, it looks like you can maybe field a LOT of units, and that's a plus.  I think SW games need that huge scale.  Force Commander lacked that with only 60 units on the field for each side...  It looked like **** trying to field infantry really because you couldn't get a big swarm of guys since each dude counted for an individual unit.  I think EaW has infantry in squads or platoons that deplete as they take damage maybe?  Just a guess there, but it's how infantry and people and stuff are formed in games like ME:TW.

Holy crap....Jesse James said something negative about Force Commander! 

I'm looking forward to another 3-D RTS.  It will make the game a lot more realistic.  Although FPS games are still my favorite.  Especially when they add the non-linear aspects like Deus Ex did.

[Jesse James]

Hey, now to be fair I've always pointed out FC's flaws...

I just don't think citing an interface that's hard to learn is a major flaw.  Not if it's learnable so you can beat the game.

Unit totals on the field though always sucked...  But that's also a limitation to gaming of the age.  Not too long ago it wasn't possible to have 30+ people play online together in any game save a MMORPG.  FC was just limited partly due to that, but some poor planning on making infantry each an individual unit didn't help. 

Especially when you've gotta arm towers and structures with infantry...  That blows (more for the rebels too, who required someone in the turret) because your'e basically wasting units to just occupy crud.

Force Commander has flaws, but it was still a vastly superior game than what it's given credit for.  I've found it was more casual RTS gamers who disliked it.  For a 3-D game in a time when 3-D RTS gaming was in its infancy though, it made a lotta strides that other games failed to do.  Battlegrounds is still lame in comparison. 

[dafoo]

I have Force Commander, that's what brought up my comments on the 3D stuff

FC runs slow, has that crazy unit limitation, and the 3D camera moves aren't effectively set up. I didn't like the camera stuff so much that I stopped playing the game.

IF they have improved camera control I'd reconsider it, but for now I'm not paying full price...

[Jesse James]

How fast or slow the game plays is your system, not the game...  Granted, at the time FC came out it pushed even fast machines, but that's what you have when gaming expands beyond what average PC's can handle...  I had gotten a top-of-the-line graphics card at the time so my system handled the game with it only getting choppy every whipstitch.  Can't blame the game there though.

The camera's tough to control, but that doesn't necessarilly mean the controls are bad.  They just need to be learned.  It's not 2-D gaming so a camera that rotates and pivots for a 3-D environment is a necessity.  Realism dictates new controls...  Tough to get used to, but effective, which is the ultimate goal...  The controls worked.

I'd cite AI being a worse issue than the controls myself...  enemies aren't overly bright, even for that era of gaming.  On a completely new engine, they really could've enhanced that level of the game but chose not to.  It made it too easy at times.

On the issue of the units, that sucked without a doubt, but like I said, at the time 60 units per side wasn't bad really...  So I can't see it as a real fault against FC relatively speaking.  It'll just be nice to (assuming it is different) have more units fielded during ground combat in EaW.  Obviously it should though considering Force Commander's how old now? 

60 individual units was pretty spiffy at that time FC came out though...  Infantry was THE only flaw with a 60 unit limit though, like I mentioned.  If each soldier counts as a unit, that sucks.  Especially when you had to have infantry just to man/occupy structures for protection.  In newer 3-D RTS games units are limited based on average PC capabilities of the times the game is developed, so 100's of thousands of units won't be fielded in EaW either...  It'll be limited.  I just think they'll improve how you field infantry though.  Instead of a single soldier, soldiers will be fielded by squad or platoon, and you'll see all those troops on the field, but as the "squad" takes damage you'll see guys drop like flies and the unit becomes less effective.

IE: a tank = 1 unit, a squad of a dozen troops = 1 unit...  Force Commander wasn't developed with that kind of thinking in mind though since it hadn't really ever been thought of.  ME:TW and R:TW are games that really established that concept to make gaming more realistic though, and it worked great.

[dafoo]

Exactly, FC came out demanding top of the line to play it.  Thus it ran slow and was jerky.  That was poor planning on LucasArts' part.

I'm not buying super expensive computer stuff just over a game.  The controls worked poorly and ackwardly.  No trouble learning them, just using them was a pain, again poorly planned out.

[Jesse James]

The controls worked fine, they were awkward...  To say they worked poorly isn't fair though.  They worked AOK.  Controling a 3-D environment isn't easy though...  But once mastery of the mouse controls, and also master of the keyboard is in place, it's a snap...  But it's constant as well.  Short of lulls after or prior to battles, it's really a constant thing...  A juggling act.  That's added excitement to a genre that's plagued with a sort of "routine" though.  I applaud the game for that.

You SHOULD have to master a complex series of controls to be good at the game...  Once you're good at it, it's a breeze to use though really.  The controls work though...  Awkward or not, they worked well for the game's engine.

Also, I don't know a single PC game that doesn't demand "the best", or a generally higher performance machine, when it's new.  Compare any FPS when it came out to the average PC's of the era, and average tends NOT to cut the mustard for quality gaming.

For instance, I know I played Jedi Knight on a non-3D accellerated machine when the game came out and I dealt with it...  JK's not nearly the same game with a 3D card as it is without.  Night and day really, but at the time 3D Accelleration wasn't something built into PC's so mine didn't have it.

Force Commander was the same way, so it's really no worse than most any other game on PC when they're new...  JK's a great game, one of the best, but I can't say I didn't care for the game because mY PC didn't play it well at t he time...  It was a graphic-intense game and my PC had to wait for an upgrade before I enjoyed every feature it had.

That's not a fault in the game though, but the platform...  If you're not into buying the latest and greatest, then PC gaming isn't a great route to go.  Consoles are probably more ideal since they're basically a dream for Game Developers to adapt for some years to only a specific format (or 2 or 3) rather than the balances required for PC game development.

And subsequently, that's why 99% of the time a PC game with console ports plays better on PC's (those set up for gaming anyway)...  And why ports from console TO PC (less common, but they happen, like HALO 1) usually suck pretty hard. 

[Dressel Rebel]

[Dressel Rebel]

[Dressel Rebel]

[Dressel Rebel]

[dafoo]

That looks great, I hope they keep the Rebellion style resource set up too.

[Matt_Fury]

Have any of you seen the trailer yet?

If not you can check it out here.

[Jesse James]

Yeah I caught that Matt...  I love the Rancor eating someone in the middle of the battle.  Something humorous about that to me.

Sounded like groups of infantry actually kinda use a rebel yell or battle scream going into combat.  I hope that's the case, but subtle, as it's a nice touch.

Saw lots of other vehicles...  A mobile artillery rebel tank of some sort among others...  Some of the designs are a little cartoony looking, but the new Rebel tank that's been in every screenshot with Rebels in it so far has grown on me (it's noticeably different I think than early shots).  The trailer played all grainy on my PC...  I guess upgrade time's around the corner.   

[Diddly]

This game looks incredible. Like Empire Earth, but with Star Wars. And wow, those graphics! 

I'm still wondering though, will you have to make civilians to gather resources for you to build the machines? You have to do that in Empire Earth, and it would make the game a bit more realistic, IMO.

[Jesse James]

I'm thinking not from what I've read but that's all jumbled together in my mind right now...

If I'm correct though, I think there's certain resources are good for different things on different planets...  It's not so much a game about resource gathering as much as it is about conquest though...  I think.  There's a lot of stuff about this in gaming rags over the last few months since it has been released.  I've read a lot of it and still can't figure out how they're going to make the final game play out.

It does look good...  I thought it looked like space-age Medeival: Total War! or something.   That's pretty great if it's the case.