Music of the Duel or Episode 3 Soundtrack Discussion

[SilverZ]

Wasn't that in the Episode I DVD Commentary?

Yeah, you guys have way better memories than me. Must have been the crack I was using as a result of the depression brought on by viewing TPM.

Here I am, the receptacle of all meaningless minutae regarding the molestation of JW's prequel scores. 

I knew you'd come through! Can't agree more with your thoughts on all this. I hope JW is let loose to do a definitive PT score on this one, unmollested.

Ben Burtt was overheard to say "but nooooo....I've got this wonderful sound effect of a turnip farting I was going to use for a volcanic eruption and it is infinitely more important to the emotional impact of the scene than music! 

And that's the funniest (and truest) thing I've read all day.

[Jediknight760071]

I really hope it's not something like Duel of the fates...To me, That song and the love theme from AOTC are in the Prequel Category...and they sound a lot different than the OT music...

I don't want music like ROTJ duel music, but I want something a little more OT than Duel of the Fates.

[SilverZ]

Post Notes are up on the Hyperspace OS on the scoring sessions taking place this week. Some good notes on the Duel in there, including a happy note of them thankfully not overdoing it:

Lucas points out that this portion of the fight seems to be lacking an expected ingredient: the Duel of the Fates from The Phantom Menace. "That comes later. In the big duel," says Williams.

Worth a read...

EDIT: Crap, except for the last note about them not recording another pass at the main title anthem, that they're using an existing take from previous films. It had better be an alternate.

[DoctorPadawan]

I've managed to stay away from a lot of "big" spoilers so far, so I could be way off base here, but it doesn't seem to me like there is going to be a section of the film that would require a lot of "temp track" stuff.  The main reason that the score in TPM was destroyed was because of editing four different stories at once, and in AOTC the score was destroyed before it started because of all the unfinished special effects and anamatics.  Oh, and Ben Burtt's turnip farts, which I can't forget.

The way it seems, the last reel of the film is going to be pretty much Anakin versus Obi-Wan and Sidious versus Yoda as far as action goes, and I would imagine that while there would be some interplay early on, the last few minutes of that section of the film would more than likely be just Anakin versus Obi-Wan due to the emotional nature of it all.  I could be wrong, but is there really a whole lot that could require extensive re-editing (and/or turnip farts)?  Then we'll have the end of the film which should be all subdued types of cues, what with births, deaths, rebirths, etc., and I can't think of a reason why none of those scenes haven't been completed and organized to a point that would require the score to be obliterated.

The reusing of the Main Title bothers me though.  As I don't have Hyperspace (I will not pay for content, pornography or otherwise), I don't know if this was a JW decision to reuse an old Main Title cue, or if it was a Lucas mandate.  Or if Ben Burtt wanted to highlight this really cool tractor backfiring due to a potato in the exhaust pipe and the Main Title was judged to be unimportant.   

On an only semi-related note, I'm really hoping that we get full unmolested versions of the prequel scores on double-CD sets (along the lines of the RCA SE soundtracks that Sony recently reissued) at some point once all this is done.  Even if there is no music scoring the Clone War in AOTC, I'd still love to have the pieces that didn't wind up on the single CD soundtrack.

[SilverZ]

I've been left with the same impression, that the film has been locked editorially far earlier than either of the other PT films, and JW has had a better shot at scoring to picture. There's no discussion of newly added scenes, and all the pick up sessions being filmed seem to be inserts, continuity, and the like. I even think they were making a concerted effort to lock for him to do his work, which is a shock.

Pablo mentions some good tidbits in a  follow-up on Hyperspace that discussed the Obi Vs Anakin duel’s music and an album arrangement. It’s apparently a new theme that was memorable enough for him to be humming later in the day. Also sounds like a chorus are coming in on it and it recalls lots of other themes as they duel, and is punched up with a lot of brass and “military nobility”. But the important news is that it is most certainly scored to events on-screen, dipping for dialog moments and punctuating important dramatic moments. Sure sounds like he is working under better conditions than AOTC.

I think the whole bailout on the Main Theme could be a money issue, like shaving a day off the scoring sessions. That had better mean that there's a lot of new cues being recorded that ate up there studio time and budget instead. The first thing that I imagined when reading that was a horrible edit right at the start of the movie. All the previous chapters have had nice, subtle transitions from the Main Theme to the on-screen events during the starfield pan, all unique. I hope they do a good job matching things up transparently. If not, Ben Burtt can track in a Muppet voice in the space battle yelling “Poodoo!” to cover it up. 

I'd like those 2-CD sets as well, done properly. That TPM 2-discer is a joke. But first the scores have to be finished. I consider AOTC’s final 20 minutes nothing but temp tracks at the moment.

I’d 100% support some score revisionism, ala Peter Jackson and Howard Shore on the LOTR extended editions. I’d like them to revisit the prequel trilogy on DVD or HD-DVD, with all the changes he’ll likely feel needs to be made once this is all over, and then let John Williams back in for a clean-up pass to the score. Fork out the cash for a couple days with the LSO. Have him tweak the pod race in TPM, and then sort out the mess made of AOTC, and actually score the final 20 minutes. That would be something really special.

[SilverZ]

More encouraging word from one of the choir guys present during scoring has been cross-posted to mf.com here:

Now its lunch, and the choir are officially finished. But I make a decision. I’m not going to go – not now. After all these years? So I sneak in after lunch, and sit at the side of the orchestra. It’s a risk (I could get thrown out), but I take it – it's too important. It’s just me, the LSO, John Williams and an unfinished Star Wars III o­n the big screen. We’ve an extraordinary-looking space battle to get through, which rocks like nothing else (“Cool”, proclaims Lucas after o­ne extra-vigorous take, a cross between the Hoth Ice Battle and the end of the Episode IV fighter-battle music), and then a quiet scene between Palpatine and the falling Anakin (“I love this scene,” says Williams. “The old guy’s great”). The former contains a striking brass fanfare as ships land and troops mass (we’ve heard it in Episode I), and Williams takes it separate to the rest of the cue, so he can sound-mix it more carefully. By contrast, the latter scene contains a moment for a solo cello trio, which is played gloriously by three members of the LSO.

This score feels immediately more emotionally full, dense, than the scores for Episodes I and II. And that feels somehow right – there’s so much more going o­n, so much more of importance to the Star Wars of IV, V and VI in this o­ne. I get the feeling this score is going to be more interesting than I and II, more engaging – and the film too.

Also, on Hyperspace, Pablo mentions the big opening battle as well, confirming the Hoth-esque presence of piano and similar sounds.

It's all sounding like a winner. Fingers are crossed...

[Scott]

Three things that get me most pumped for each of the Prequels:

#1 The Toys
#2 The Soundtrack
#3 The Books

I can't wait to get my mitts on the music for EpIII, it does sound like they are taking much more care this go round and it should be an eargasm when all is revealed.

I can't believe they haven't done a 2 CD set yet for AOTC either.  Bastards

[Ben]

Speaking of music, when is the soundtrack due out? Is it on April 2nd like everything else, or is it later?


I doubt it's on April 2nd, since I've heard nothing of the score yet, and I had the AOTC soundtrack stolen downloaded about three weeks or so before the album was released.


Edit-- just did some checking here, and it said "May 2005".

Be careful, that link plays some selected scores, and if you have your volume really loud like I did, bad things will happen.

[Scott]

I was just listening to the ESB commentary last night and that sonofabitch Burtt was more the gleeful in the fact that there is no music in the duel scenes and that the sound of the lightsaber is pretty much all the "music" there needs to be.  ******

While I agree that the sound of the lightsaber is pretty awesome, the point in the ESB duel where the Imperial March kicks in is almost breathtaking.  Its some of Williams finest works and for Burtt to think that his little sound effects should superscede anything is a kick in the groin to us all.

[DoctorPadawan]

Not necessarily confined to the duel, but it is the first official announcement of the ROTS soundtrack contents.  GH.com posted a brief note on the tracklist earlier today, but apparently Sony has sent out a full press release on the CD, which will include a 70 minute DVD that will include "videos" for each film's music, introduced by Ian McDiarmid.  I am waiting with baited breath for this to be released, and May 3 can't get here soon enough.

Read more about it at The John Williams Fan Network

And to keep it real, hey Burtt!  I got your turnip fart right over here! 

[Scott]

Did you know that Episode IV and V had no music during the duels?  The sound of the lightsabers was deemed to be musical enough!  ************

[Famine]

I didn't mind.

Anger leads to the Dark Side, Scott.

Kevin

[DoctorPadawan]

Did you know that Episode IV and V had no music during the duels?  The sound of the lightsabers was deemed to be musical enough!  ************

My problem with Burtt and his "sound design" doesn't have as much to do with Williams not scoring scenes, but with Burtt deciding that scenes Williams has scored don't need music and that his sound effects should take center stage.  A perfect example of this is the first part of the arena sequence in AOTC (Anakin, Obi-Wan and Padme vs. Acklay, Reek, and Nexu): JW scored this entire sequence (it's all on the CD) but Burtt deemed it necessary to drop the entire score right up to the point where the Droidekas roll into the arena.  The really insulting part is that Burtt replaced Williams' music with his own generic percussion in the background.  He even talks about this on the AOTC DVD commentary.  Way to go Ben.   

There are some parts where I think the film works without music pretty well, but the editing on the prequels has been so horrible as far as sound goes that it's almost embarassing.  I get the distinct impression that Burtt harbors something of a secret grudge toward JW for the degree of fame he has gotten from his film scores in general, if not only the SW films, while he isn't even mentioned in mainstream media when the sound effects are brought up.  I am not discounting the work that Burtt has done on the sound effects as it wouldn't be SW without them, but at the same time it pisses me off to see Burtt being so passive-aggressive in burying or hacking away at JW work so his own can be heard more prominently.

I mean, really, was there a reason for the music during the chase through Coruscant in AOTC to be edited the way it was, with haphazard looping?  Why did the end credits music for AOTC get hacked to pieces at all, since the music that made the soundtrack (which ends with a hauntingly beautiful rendition of Anakin's theme from TPM) was infinitely better and the exact same length?  Why was the music from the duel in TESB dropped completely in the carbon freezing chamber when, thematically, it made a point (just pull out the RCA or Sony 2-disc sets to hear what I'm talking about)? 

Again, it's all so Ben Burtt could show everyone how big his penis is at the expense of John Williams' music. 

[Famine]

On May 3, Sony will release the soundtrack to Star Wars Episode III - Revenge of the Sith which will include a 70 minute DVD containing 16 music videos by multiple Oscar winner John Williams. The music videos will be a chronological tour of all 6 films and include respective footage as well as sound effects and dialogue in 5.1 Surround Sound from the films of the Star Wars saga. Each segment will be introduced by actor Ian McDiarmid who portrays Senator Palpatine. Rounding out the package are liner notes by creator/producer/writer/director George Lucas and a bonus poster.

From some DVD website.

Kevin

[Famine]

1. Star Wars and The Revenge Of The Sith
2. Anakin's Betrayal
3. Battle Of The Heroes
4. Anakin's Dream
5. The Reunion Of Anakin And Padme
6. Welcome, Lord Vader
7. Padme's Ruminations
8. Grievous Travels To Palpatine
9. I Am The Senate
10. General Grievous
11. Palpatine's Dark Teachings
12. Anakin vs. Obi-Wan
13. Anakin's Dark Deeds
14. The Immolation Scene
15. The Birth Of The Twins and Padme's Destiny
16. A New Hope and End Credits

Whee!

Kevin